506. The Podcast Discovery Shift Creators Can’t Ignore | Podcast News

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Marc Ronick: Good morning
podcasters. Today is Wednesday,

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April 29 2026 and today news and
comment is back, and we're

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talking Spotify discovery tips,
YouTube shorts, getting time

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limits and Amazon's not so
subtle. Plan to monetize

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everything podcasting touches.

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So

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if you're listening live on
clubhouse, hit the share button,

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top right hand side of the
screen and share it however

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clubhouse lets you. And if
you're catching us via podcast,

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YouTube, LinkedIn, etc, please
share this with a fellow

00:36.400 --> 00:41.980
podcaster. And now give us about
30 seconds, and we'll get things

00:42.040 --> 00:53.200
rolling. Thanks for being here.
The podcasting morning chat is

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powered by Ironick Media helping
podcasters launch polish and

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grow great shows, and by Content
Creator's Accountant helping

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creators build real business
behind their content. Good

01:20.950 --> 01:23.410
morning again. Podcasting
Morning Chat. Thank you so much

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for being here. I am your host,
Mark Ronick, and currently on

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stage with me, my co hosts. We
have Ralph Estep, DR Fay, Nick

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Nalbach, Sid Meadows, and also
Junaid has joined us. Junaid

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Ahmed has joined us on stage
here, the virtual stage. And of

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course, Tide aka Knikki's
joining us right now on stage as

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well. Good morning to all of
you. I expect we'll see some

01:47.095 --> 01:50.575
more of our cast and crew
momentarily, and if you want to

01:50.575 --> 01:52.435
learn more about them, just go
to

01:53.035 --> 01:58.360
podcastingmorningchat.com/people.
And today, before we get any

01:58.360 --> 02:02.920
further, before we get into the
news, I want to share something

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new with you coming here to the
Podcasting Morning Chat. Soon to

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be Podcasting Morning Show as of
Monday. Do you want to have your

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podcast featured on the
podcasting morning chat? You can

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now submit a 60 second clip
about your show, something that

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gives people a real feel for
your podcast. If we select it,

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we'll play your clip audio or
video on a future episode. We'll

02:29.245 --> 02:33.025
share what stood out to us and
introduce your show to our

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community of podcasters and
creators. So you can submit your

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clip to
podcastingmorningchat.com/spotlight,

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and by the way, this was Ralph's
brain child, and we're both

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super excited about this
opportunity for you, one thing

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I'll say before I hand it off to
Ralph is, I think what we're

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trying to encourage here, and
Ralph, you tell me if I'm wrong,

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we're trying To encourage your
voice doing basically like your

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own commercial for your podcast.
We debated whether we wanted you

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to provide a clip from your show
or not, and I felt like you

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providing a clip may not give
enough context to really put

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your show in the spotlight. So
we want you to do basically like

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a 60 second commercial about
your show. Who's it for? What's

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the value for them? When can we
hear it or watch it, etc? Ralph,

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like I said, your brain child.
Anything you want to add

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Ralph Estep Jr.: No Marc. I
think you did a great job there.

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Yeah. The whole point is to give
you some exposure. We want to

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feature your show, talk about
your show, and give you an

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introduction to our audience and
our audience an introduction to

03:43.840 --> 03:45.820
you. So make sure you do that at
podcastingmorningchat.com/spotlight,

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looking forward to getting those
submissions,

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Marc Ronick: and as of Monday,
that'll be

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podcastingmorningshow.com/spotlight,
but both should work. We're

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working on that both links
should work. We will let you

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know as of Monday, right? Ralph,

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Ralph Estep Jr.: that is
correct.

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Marc Ronick: Okay, cool, cool.
Big dramatic pause to hear. That

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is correct, but I saw he was
looking for the mute button

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there. All right, so again,
podcastingmorningchat.com/spotlight,

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no strings attached. We're not
charging you for this. This is a

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way for us to give back to the
community and for our community

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to get to know each other a
little bit better, by the way.

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BC Babbles has joined us this
morning, and he will have a

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story for us later in the show.
But first, let's get into some

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news, shall we? And the way I
like to start is with a little

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bit of podcast data for you,
which comes from the podcast

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Business Journal. And I like to
this is a newer thing I like to

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do. I like to read this little
blurb that they include with

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this particular data point. It
says a helpful. Number to

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understand the amount of
podcasts being created is the

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total number of quote, unquote,
active podcasts. These are

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podcasts that are still being
updated and therefore actively

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marketing themselves. So if
you're making podcast episodes,

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you might consider this number
to be your competition, rather

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than that big overall number
that we see of over 4.6 million

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podcasts, right? So yes, there
are 4.6 million podcasts, but

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that's really just saying ever
created and put onto an RSS feed

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and into the directories, right?
But the ones that are actually

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making episodes that number is
quite different, the total

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podcasts updated in the last
week were just 197,313 which is

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also down from the previous
week. And looking at 30 day

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totals, total podcasts updated
in the last 30 days, we're

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looking at 370,000 and change,
which is actually up month to

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month, from 360 almost 363,000
Dr, did you

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want

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DR: to so does that cancel each
other out? If one was down 2% or

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the other one is up 2%

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Marc Ronick: No, I think it's
just more data to sift through,

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and it changes the number when
we look at the four week span

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versus the one week? Yeah, no,
they don't cancel each other

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out. Speaking of dr, by the way,
Dr has got some top five lists

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for us and a special list that,

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DR: yeah,

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Marc Ronick: we don't often talk
about.

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DR: Yeah, we're gonna gamify it.
Okay, so this first chart that I

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want to read off, or, first of
all, we're gonna play the game

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Spotify is marking 20 years by
looking back at the podcasts

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that have dominated its app
since podcasts were added in

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2015 it's no surprise that Joe
Rogan experience takes the top

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spot After its long Spotify
exclusive run. The twist is

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okay, you're gonna have to help
me on this name Germany's comedy

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hit.

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Marc Ronick: Yeah, I can't even
tell you. I can't even G, E, M,

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I, S, C, H, T, E, S, whatever,
however you pronounce that.

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Jimmy,

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DR: Jimmy ship. And

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Marc Ronick: no, we are not
bleeping that out, because that

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is part she's trying to say
something in German.

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DR: Shit. Number two, proving,
once again, that podcast charts

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enjoy throwing one curve ball
just to keep everyone awake. So

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I thought what we could do is I
will call out a show and between

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one and 20 you tell me where you
think it is on this chart. And

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again, this is the most streamed
podcast of all time. Who's the

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celebrity that used to do that,
Muhammad Ali, so, so let's see,

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call her daddy. Where do you
think that falls?

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Marc Ronick: Well, I know, but
what does everyone think? Where

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would that fall?

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BC Babbles: Are

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Nick: we talking like? How big
is this list? Is it

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Marc Ronick: 20? Are

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Nick: you talking

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DR: 20? So it's between one and
20.

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Nick: Okay, sorry, I might miss
that.

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Marc Ronick: Yeah, it's the top
20 all time. Streamed podcasts

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on Spotify.

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DR: So where do you think? Call
her daddy falls Nick

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Marc Ronick: What's your guess?

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Nick: Say 10.

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Marc Ronick: Not

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too bad. Actually,

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DR: you're close. That is 11.

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Marc Ronick: I'll give him that,
because that's pretty hard.

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DR: Anyone

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Marc Ronick: want to guess?
Anyone want to guess who might

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be on this list again. These are
the most streamed podcasts of

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all time, the top 20. Do you
expect to see anybody in there?

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Go ahead, Nick

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Nick: Joe Rogan,

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Marc Ronick: well, we must

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Nick: steal that one right away.

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Marc Ronick: Well, we Dr gave
that one, and that is the number

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one, yes. So yes, that is true.
You got that right, even though

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we gave you the answer earlier.
Any other guesses? Or shall we

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just dive in? We'd

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Ralph Estep Jr.: have to assume
Mel Robbins is probably on the

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list there somewhere.

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Marc Ronick: Let's take a look.
Is Mel Robbins in there? No. Oh,

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thank you. Dr, wow. Not in
there. BC, did you want to take

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a guess?

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BC Babbles: Yeah. I mean,
there's still kind of a newbie

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comparatively. But I almost want
to guess, potentially, the good

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hang might be there towards the
end of the list, top 15.

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Marc Ronick: Wow. Good hang is
not in

09:39.200 --> 09:41.740
BC Babbles: we make that a sound
for the board.

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Marc Ronick: I don't know. I
think that might disturb a lot

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of people this early in the
morning. Not sure. It

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BC Babbles: will keep Hey, it'll
keep some of us awake. Okay,

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Marc Ronick: that's

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true. That's true. BC we need to
do everything again to keep your

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attention. Yes,

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I'm

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DR: feeling a little feisty
today, so watch out. Let's

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Marc Ronick: do the top six.
Because. There's one on there

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DR: six.

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Marc Ronick: Yeah,

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DR: right. So number six is the
daily. Number five is last

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podcast on the left. Number four
is armchair expert with Dax

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Shepard. Number three is crime
junkie. Number two is gym shit.

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Number one is number one
experience,

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Marc Ronick: that's right. And
again, not a bad word. She's

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saying. She's just trying to
pronounce some German, and not

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doing a very good job.

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DR: Well, what can you say? You

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Marc Ronick: got another list

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for

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DR: us? I do. So now I'm this
list has me. I'm a little

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skeptical on this one, so just
know that going in, this is a

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random chart. This week is the
top five independents. And I'm

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putting that in quotation marks,
big time. Okay? Because once you

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hear the names of these
podcasts, you'll say independent

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what? Okay, so number five is
Diary of a CEO independent my

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butt. Number four is, well,
that's interesting. Number three

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is, the rest is history. Number
two is the stupid History

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Minute, probably the only show
that can get me really

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interested in history. Number
one is the hidden brain,

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Marc Ronick: yes.

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DR: Brain, that doesn't feel
like an independent thing for me

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Marc Ronick: in hidden brain, in
particular,

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DR: hidden brain and Diary Of A
Yeah,

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Marc Ronick: and we've talked a
little bit about Diary of a CEO,

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and some people feeling like,
yeah, maybe that's not really an

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independent podcast, but I think
technically by definition, it

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is, but and I think that
sometimes we have some blurred

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lines between what it means to
be an independent podcaster

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versus an independent DIY
podcaster, right?

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Do?

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DR: Can you refresh our memory
as to what the definition

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Marc Ronick: I think BC was the
one that gave us the official

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definitions of those. I don't
know. BC, if you have that off

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the top of your head,

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BC Babbles: I do, but I believe
once I deliver the definitions,

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I got a bunch of kickback. Once
I gave them out, what I recall

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so DIY is completely you do it
yourself. You don't really have

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any kind of agency doing any
part of the process for you. You

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are the host, the planner, the
producer, the marketer. You are

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the whole machine. And then
indie podcasts are likely ones

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who have been able to at least
commission some kind of agency

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or team to handle production or
maybe marketing for their show.

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So they're not completely solo
anymore, but they're not some

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huge corporate aid contracted
show by any means, either.

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Marc Ronick: Got it, okay? All
right, so there, I guess there

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you go. Yeah, I think we all
still need it, but yeah, I think

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DIY podcasters, that's like a
lot of our audience. I think a

12:57.760 --> 13:00.660
lot of people that are really
just doing it all themselves,

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from concept to production to
promotion, they're doing it all,

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whereas independent podcasters
like Stephen Bartlett, they have

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a whole team, a whole empire,
but they're still considered

13:14.160 --> 13:16.980
independent because they're not
doing it for anyone else but

13:16.980 --> 13:17.880
themselves.

13:18.300 --> 13:20.940
DR: Yeah, yeah. Oh, well, gym
shits, you know, it's

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Ralph Estep Jr.: Can

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I interrupt for a second. You
may so, because we've been

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butchering that name,

13:27.200 --> 13:27.620
Marc Ronick: yes,

13:27.680 --> 13:31.580
Ralph Estep Jr.: it actually it
means mixed in German, and it's

13:31.580 --> 13:35.540
pronounced GA Mish, tus

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Marc Ronick: commission. So

13:37.220 --> 13:41.440
Ralph Estep Jr.: commissioned us
Mish, so just not to correct a

13:41.440 --> 13:42.760
DR, but I just thought we should

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Marc Ronick: appreciate, no, I'm
glad somebody

13:44.680 --> 13:47.200
DR: did give it to me again.
Gamish,

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Ralph Estep Jr.: okay. It says
G, U, h, and then m, I, S, C, H,

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which they said is sort of like
the word fish in English. And

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then T, U, h, S, tus, so
pronounced

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BC Babbles: us,

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Ralph Estep Jr.: yeah, which in
German means mixed. Basically,

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that's what we're talking about
there.

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Marc Ronick: All right,

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DR: so mixed tap is basically
what that show means that, which

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is at number two.

14:14.720 --> 14:17.720
Marc Ronick: That's right, okay,
thank you for the top fives. DR,

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appreciate that.

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DR: Hey, sure.

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Marc Ronick: Let me quickly get
into some events, because

14:24.980 --> 14:28.580
there's some AI news I want to
try to get to Nick has to bounce

14:28.580 --> 14:31.640
a little early, and I wanted to
talk to Nick about it. So before

14:31.640 --> 14:36.020
we do that, I'm going to jump
into events around the world of

14:36.020 --> 14:39.665
podcasting. First, a big
congratulations from the

14:39.665 --> 14:42.425
podcasting morning chat to
everyone involved in this year's

14:42.605 --> 14:45.905
black effect podcast Festival,
which took place over the

14:45.905 --> 14:50.045
weekend in Atlanta. The event
brought together creators, fans

14:50.045 --> 14:53.705
and industry voices for live
podcast recordings, business

14:53.705 --> 14:57.905
focused, panel discussions, a
pitch your podcast booth, the

14:57.905 --> 15:03.830
black marketplace and more. Or
according to the here talk about

15:03.830 --> 15:07.850
butchering names today, the
supporter report and pod news,

15:08.210 --> 15:12.110
several key themes kept rising
to surface throughout the day.

15:12.410 --> 15:16.790
Those themes being, be yourself,
stay consistent, create with

15:16.790 --> 15:21.050
purpose and pay attention to the
growing ways AI can support the

15:21.050 --> 15:25.835
creative work without replacing
the creator behind it. Feels

15:25.835 --> 15:28.775
similar in some ways, to
empowered podcasting. Similar

15:29.315 --> 15:33.815
themes have come out of that
conference. We'll get into that

15:33.815 --> 15:37.895
in a moment to learn more about
the black effect podcast,

15:37.895 --> 15:43.415
festival and future events go to
blackeffect.com/podcast

15:43.475 --> 15:47.480
festival. Some upcoming events
for you, or at least one that

15:47.480 --> 15:49.940
I'm going to share with you
right now. The podcast show

15:49.940 --> 15:57.020
happens may 20 and 21st of this
year in London. They say it's

15:57.020 --> 16:00.560
the biggest international
festival for the business of

16:00.560 --> 16:03.920
podcasting, you can join them
for their fifth edition of the

16:03.920 --> 16:09.500
show, which is their quote,
biggest and boldest yet. I just

16:09.500 --> 16:14.945
realized I don't have the link
on me. Bad host slapping the

16:14.945 --> 16:20.465
wrist. But if you look up
podcast show 2026 on Google or

16:20.465 --> 16:24.785
your favorite AI platform, I
promise you'll find it. So check

16:24.785 --> 16:28.625
that out. And also a reminder,
speaking of events that today,

16:28.865 --> 16:33.185
1pm eastern again, I'm going to
say that today, 1pm eastern

16:33.185 --> 16:37.130
time, you can join our live
stream for the Empowered

16:37.130 --> 16:42.170
podcasting Live series that we
do every other Wednesday, and

16:42.170 --> 16:45.890
we're going to be talking
podcast news as well. On that

16:45.890 --> 16:49.550
episode, we also have some big,
empowered podcasting, three

16:49.550 --> 16:54.470
announcements, updates on hotel
discounts, a first look at our

16:54.470 --> 16:58.895
big, updated weekend format, and
a preview of some of the new

16:58.895 --> 17:04.295
social events we're planning for
the big EPC three weekend. So if

17:04.295 --> 17:06.575
you're coming to Charlotte,
thinking about coming, or just

17:06.575 --> 17:09.575
want to stay connected to what
we're building, this is a great

17:09.575 --> 17:12.515
one to catch live. It's the only
way you can catch us at

17:12.515 --> 17:17.915
podcastingmorningchat.com/epclive.
And we will put that in the show

17:17.915 --> 17:21.980
notes as well. So come check
that out. And again, tickets are

17:21.980 --> 17:25.580
on sale. The prices go up in
May. So if you really are

17:25.580 --> 17:30.140
thinking about coming, now is
the absolute time to do that.

17:30.560 --> 17:33.080
And I'm just going to share with
you, because we do a lot of

17:33.080 --> 17:37.460
behind the scenes stuff. Here I
am going, I am stalling right

17:37.460 --> 17:40.760
now because I'm looking for
Ralph's button, and I can't find

17:40.760 --> 17:45.005
it, and I know that wrong button
sound is about to hit me if I

17:45.005 --> 17:48.785
hit the wrong button here, let's
see where is it. It's gone.

17:48.785 --> 17:53.525
Ralph, do you have it? I do you
want me to hit it? Please? Quick

17:53.525 --> 18:03.845
tip, smart move. And today's
content creators business bite

18:03.845 --> 18:07.250
is brought to you by the guy
who's about to host it, Ralph

18:07.250 --> 18:11.210
Estep Jr. of
contentcreatorsaccountant.com

18:11.330 --> 18:14.870
Ralph is a licensed accountant
with over 30 years of experience

18:14.870 --> 18:19.550
helping create. Creators
navigate taxes, bookkeeping and

18:19.550 --> 18:23.150
the money side of their business
with more clarity and a whole

18:23.150 --> 18:27.410
lot less stress. He's also my
accountant, and I'm happy to

18:27.410 --> 18:31.475
recommend him to you. You can
learn more about him at content

18:31.475 --> 18:35.555
creators accountant.com All
right, Ralph, what are we diving

18:35.555 --> 18:36.215
into today?

18:36.740 --> 18:38.900
Ralph Estep Jr.: Well, good
morning everybody. There's a new

18:38.900 --> 18:43.360
piece from Barrett media that's
asking a $65 million question.

18:43.420 --> 18:47.140
Here's the question, Can
podcasting avoid radio's

18:47.140 --> 18:50.860
mistakes? Well, let me give you
the short answer, only if

18:50.860 --> 18:53.860
creators don't sell out the
listener. And this article hits

18:53.860 --> 18:56.320
really hard. I'm going to give
you a couple quotes. One of the

18:56.320 --> 18:59.740
quotes says radio didn't lose
because of lack of audience. It

18:59.740 --> 19:03.060
lost because of how it treated
that audience. If you think

19:03.060 --> 19:05.760
about it, that's not a
technology failure, that's a

19:05.760 --> 19:09.300
trust failure. And here's where
it gets super uncomfortable. In

19:09.300 --> 19:12.780
the article, it says at some
point, the listeners stopped

19:12.780 --> 19:15.840
being the priority, and they
allude to this the moment and

19:15.840 --> 19:18.660
everything changed. It didn't
happen overnight. It happened

19:18.660 --> 19:21.980
slowly, with more ads and more
interruptions and less

19:21.980 --> 19:24.620
connection. But now let's pause
for a second. Let's look at

19:24.620 --> 19:28.040
podcasting today, because the
article raises the concern. It

19:28.040 --> 19:30.920
quotes this. It says, Will
podcasting Chase short term

19:30.920 --> 19:35.180
revenue at the expense of long
term loyalty? And that's the

19:35.180 --> 19:36.320
whole game, right there, isn't

19:36.680 --> 19:36.980
Marc Ronick: it? So

19:36.980 --> 19:38.600
Ralph Estep Jr.: let me
translate this for what I see.

19:38.600 --> 19:42.940
Creators have to deal with radio
optimized for scale. That's what

19:42.940 --> 19:44.920
they did. They looked at how
much of a scale they can grow

19:44.920 --> 19:45.160
to, in

19:45.340 --> 19:45.640
Marc Ronick: my view.

19:45.820 --> 19:47.800
Ralph Estep Jr.: And a lot of
people would agree with this,

19:47.800 --> 19:52.360
podcasting wins with trust, and
the second you forget that you

19:52.360 --> 19:56.380
don't just lose attention, you
lose the business. So here's the

19:56.380 --> 20:00.420
real question, are you building
something people listen to? Or

20:00.420 --> 20:03.180
or something they care about,
because only one of those

20:03.180 --> 20:06.840
survives. So be honest. Have you
ever stopped listening to a

20:06.840 --> 20:10.500
podcast because of too many ads?
Oh, and I really just wanted to

20:10.500 --> 20:13.320
throw that out to everybody, and
what was the breaking point? Was

20:13.320 --> 20:16.320
it the volume of ads or the how
the ads were delivered?

20:16.680 --> 20:19.500
Marc Ronick: I think it's both,
for me, to be honest with you, I

20:19.500 --> 20:22.700
think when I get turned off by
ads. It's that there are a lot

20:22.700 --> 20:27.260
of them and that there's no
connection to them. It's usually

20:27.260 --> 20:31.640
the pre recorded commercials
with random voices, you know,

20:31.640 --> 20:34.820
just voice over people that I'm
not connected to the way I'm

20:34.820 --> 20:38.180
connected to the host, the way I
feel connected to the host. And

20:38.180 --> 20:41.920
it just annoys me there. I
almost never listen to a

20:41.920 --> 20:46.480
commercial on a podcast. I will
absolutely hit the skip button

20:46.480 --> 20:50.860
unless the host is reading the
ad. If the host is actually

20:50.860 --> 20:54.460
doing the ad, it usually keeps
my attention. Yes, maybe it

20:54.460 --> 20:56.980
annoys me a little bit here and
there. It depends how they do it

20:56.980 --> 21:00.360
and when they do it and how
frequently. And I think BC

21:00.360 --> 21:01.680
wanted to chime in as well.

21:02.100 --> 21:04.620
BC Babbles: Yeah, I agree. It
does help when the host is the

21:04.620 --> 21:08.280
one actually narrating whatever
script it is for the sponsor,

21:08.280 --> 21:10.740
but for myself and I kind of I
noticed this too when we're

21:10.740 --> 21:14.640
doing the obsession worthy
podcast on the show, if that is

21:14.640 --> 21:19.080
the first immediate thing to
happen on the episode that

21:19.080 --> 21:23.780
doesn't put a huge break between
the quasi intro than the actual

21:23.780 --> 21:27.140
meat of the episode. That helps
too. If it's the first immediate

21:27.140 --> 21:30.560
thing it's done out of the way,
that helps me too. Otherwise, if

21:30.560 --> 21:34.040
it's in the middle of the meet
or somewhere, trying to put a

21:34.100 --> 21:37.640
dramatic pause between the
climax of a moment, not for me.

21:38.300 --> 21:40.960
Marc Ronick: Yeah. Okay,
interesting. So I think one of

21:40.960 --> 21:44.860
my biggest pet peeves is when I
press play on a podcast and it

21:44.860 --> 21:48.580
starts with a commercial, it
just annoys me, and maybe that's

21:48.580 --> 21:52.960
because of the line of work I'm
in when I'm so when I'm

21:53.020 --> 21:57.580
practically beating you on the
head about opening with value

21:57.580 --> 22:02.580
right away. That is the last
that is the least valuable way

22:02.580 --> 22:03.720
to start your show

22:04.080 --> 22:04.260
is

22:04.440 --> 22:07.200
by playing somebody else's
content, somebody else's

22:07.200 --> 22:10.620
commercial that your audience
has really no connection with

22:10.680 --> 22:12.360
coming in initially anyway.

22:12.840 --> 22:15.000
BC Babbles: And I noticed that
YouTube does this a lot, too. If

22:15.000 --> 22:19.140
you're watching any kind of show
or whatever on YouTube, they

22:19.140 --> 22:22.760
know when, like, the climatic
most watched moments are now on

22:22.760 --> 22:27.020
any YouTube video, they'll put
the ad clip right before that

22:27.020 --> 22:30.140
part begins, and you've taken me
out of the rhythm of the show or

22:30.140 --> 22:32.900
whatever it is that I'm
watching. So that's why it's a

22:32.900 --> 22:34.520
huge no for me doing it like
that.

22:35.060 --> 22:38.780
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I hear ya.
That makes sense. By the way, a

22:38.780 --> 22:43.360
good morning to Amanda yoah,
who's a regular, has been a

22:43.360 --> 22:46.060
regular here on the show, and
good to see her and just like

22:46.060 --> 22:48.940
that. Then there's another
person who is a long time

22:49.000 --> 22:51.400
community member just popped in
the room as well. Stacey

22:51.400 --> 22:55.060
Sherman, welcome back.
Appreciate having you here, and

22:55.120 --> 22:58.060
love seeing all these people in
the audience here on clubhouse

22:58.060 --> 23:01.860
this morning. Awesome to have
all of you here. Thank you for

23:01.860 --> 23:05.040
being here. Okay, so yeah,
Ralph, we you feel like we're

23:05.040 --> 23:07.740
good on your story here. Shall
we move on? Yeah.

23:07.980 --> 23:10.200
Ralph Estep Jr.: I just wanted
to say one more thing. I just

23:10.200 --> 23:13.860
think the big industry question
here is, this is a daily

23:13.860 --> 23:16.920
decision, and we've each got to
make this decision on every

23:16.920 --> 23:20.100
episode, every ad, every choice.
We got to decide and listen, I'm

23:20.100 --> 23:22.280
the money guy. This was hard for
me to say, but I got to say

23:22.280 --> 23:26.480
this. We've got to decide on
relationship or revenue first,

23:26.780 --> 23:30.020
because in the end, they're not
the same path. So thank you so

23:30.020 --> 23:32.780
much for endeavoring to talk
about this today, but it's

23:32.780 --> 23:35.660
something we have to be really
worried about, because radio is

23:35.660 --> 23:38.420
died, because the percentage of
ads is brutal.

23:38.960 --> 23:41.800
Marc Ronick: And, yeah, I'm glad
you took us back to that, Ralph,

23:41.800 --> 23:45.760
because yeah, I mean, I've been
somewhat either a massive fan of

23:45.760 --> 23:52.000
talk radio or even a part of
talk radio in my past. And that

23:52.000 --> 23:56.140
is so true when you think about
it, when we're when radio really

23:56.200 --> 23:59.500
all it cared about were the
dollars and getting as many

23:59.500 --> 24:03.240
people as possible to maximize
those dollars, and I think it

24:03.240 --> 24:06.180
has really hurt them. I think
there are other reasons why

24:06.180 --> 24:09.180
radio is hurting as well,
because I think it's been slow

24:09.180 --> 24:12.960
to really catch up with the
times. But yeah, I think that is

24:12.960 --> 24:16.260
a big factor, and it's a good
reminder that as podcasters,

24:16.260 --> 24:19.560
where we're trying so hard to
get as many people to listen as

24:19.560 --> 24:23.180
possible, maybe that really
isn't the right formula for this

24:23.180 --> 24:27.200
medium. Sid, you want to chime
in. Go ahead. Good morning.

24:27.200 --> 24:27.320
Yeah,

24:27.619 --> 24:29.899
Sid Meadows: good morning.
Everybody. Just a little bit of

24:29.899 --> 24:34.099
a different perspective. I am
not a fan of shows that have

24:34.099 --> 24:37.099
tons and tons of ads. We've
talked about Mel Robbins before

24:37.099 --> 24:39.439
and her seven minutes at the
beginning of her show full of

24:39.439 --> 24:39.919
ads, right?

24:39.919 --> 24:40.279
Marc Ronick: Yeah. But

24:40.580 --> 24:43.000
Sid Meadows: as someone who has
sponsors and someone who runs

24:43.000 --> 24:47.620
ads and someone who has a very
loyal community of listeners, it

24:47.620 --> 24:52.900
was refreshing to receive calls
and messages from some of my

24:52.900 --> 24:57.340
listeners congratulating me on
the sponsorships that I have for

24:57.340 --> 24:57.880
my podcast.

24:57.879 --> 24:58.539
Marc Ronick: That's cool

24:59.080 --> 25:01.380
Sid Meadows: and it just. I was
talking about phone somebody,

25:01.380 --> 25:04.020
because I got a couple messages
about it, which is great, but

25:04.020 --> 25:06.060
then I was on the phone with
somebody who listens all the

25:06.060 --> 25:08.340
time, and he goes, Man,
congratulations on getting those

25:08.340 --> 25:10.620
sponsors. I know that's a big
deal for you, and I know that

25:10.620 --> 25:13.680
helps you a lot, and I just like
it made me realize that maybe my

25:13.680 --> 25:16.140
audience doesn't necessarily
care about the ads, because I'm

25:16.140 --> 25:19.680
really sensitive to how many we
run per show. We have a maximum

25:19.680 --> 25:23.600
of six that we will run, two at
the beginning, two at the

25:23.600 --> 25:26.720
minute, two at the end. So
that's the max we will run. But

25:26.720 --> 25:29.240
when you don't have
monetization, or you don't have

25:29.240 --> 25:32.000
ads, and then all of a sudden
you do, and you have a community

25:32.000 --> 25:34.880
been listening for a long time.
Don't underestimate that they're

25:35.300 --> 25:37.400
happy for you, that your show is
now making money.

25:38.060 --> 25:40.480
Marc Ronick: Yeah, thank you.
Sid. Sid, quick question. Oh,

25:40.480 --> 25:41.260
yeah, go ahead. Dr,

25:41.800 --> 25:44.500
DR: when you said two in the
front, two in the middle, two in

25:44.500 --> 25:49.540
the back, are these six
different sponsors, or is it

25:49.540 --> 25:54.100
like one sponsor gets the front
and the back and another sponsor

25:54.100 --> 25:57.280
gets in the middle? Are you like
doubling up? Do you know what I

25:57.280 --> 25:57.520
mean,

25:57.639 --> 26:00.599
Sid Meadows: yeah, no, they're
no double up. So the one sponsor

26:00.599 --> 26:04.259
does not get multiple ads in the
same show. So if you're a gold

26:04.259 --> 26:07.559
sponsor, you get a 32nd ad at
the pre roll. If you're a

26:07.559 --> 26:10.199
silver, you get a 32nd ad at the
mid roll, and if you're a

26:10.199 --> 26:14.639
bronze, you get a 32nd ad post
roll. So we just planned it out

26:14.639 --> 26:17.279
we're because we have the whole
year planned out when their ads

26:17.279 --> 26:20.119
will run. That's also to help us
make sure we get their ads on

26:20.119 --> 26:23.119
time, and they're recorded in
our queue, right? But we wanted

26:23.119 --> 26:26.479
to plan it out, because I don't
want somebody to just become

26:26.479 --> 26:29.539
tone deaf to them and then be
just like, oh my gosh, so many

26:29.539 --> 26:32.059
ads in the show. I don't want
people to have that experience.

26:32.059 --> 26:35.539
So that's why we limited it to
two in each section, and it's

26:35.599 --> 26:38.839
all there. If there are six in
one show, all six of them would

26:38.839 --> 26:39.319
be different.

26:39.920 --> 26:43.960
DR: Okay, okay. And also, you
said that you know your

26:43.960 --> 26:50.020
listeners know how. You know
they're savvy as to you trying

26:50.020 --> 26:53.320
to get the sponsors and
everything. So you must have

26:53.320 --> 26:56.980
been transparent with them at
some point to say, Listen, you

26:56.980 --> 26:59.320
know, we're trying to get
sponsors or we've got the

26:59.320 --> 27:02.640
sponsor, and it's really a great
thing. How did that go? I mean,

27:02.640 --> 27:04.980
were you transparent like that
with them?

27:05.520 --> 27:07.560
Sid Meadows: Actually, that's a
really great question. VR, and

27:07.560 --> 27:11.340
no, I was not transparent with
them. I just went out and found

27:11.340 --> 27:14.460
sponsors, and then we started
the season with sponsors. I

27:14.460 --> 27:17.760
didn't tell them that I was
looking it is on my website that

27:17.760 --> 27:20.480
if you want to talk to me about
being a sponsor, click this link

27:20.480 --> 27:23.300
to schedule time with me. They
may have seen that, but I

27:23.300 --> 27:26.420
didn't, you know. I did not say
I'm looking for sponsors,

27:26.420 --> 27:29.900
because I also didn't want just
any sponsor. I was very targeted

27:29.900 --> 27:34.040
with who I was going after to be
sponsors of the show, so I

27:34.040 --> 27:36.860
didn't tell them, but they
reacted very positively to it.

27:37.340 --> 27:37.760
DR: Awesome.

27:39.260 --> 27:41.740
Marc Ronick: Yeah, good. Great
questions. Dr, thank you for

27:41.740 --> 27:44.560
asking. I was thinking about
some of those myself. So thank

27:44.560 --> 27:47.800
you for beating me to the punch.
And by the way, John in the chat

27:47.800 --> 27:52.120
is sharing some pet peeves of
his about ad placement on

27:52.180 --> 27:55.540
podcast. And he's saying here
that one of his pet peeves about

27:55.540 --> 28:00.420
ads lazy podcasters who just
crowbar ads at a random time and

28:00.420 --> 28:04.260
interrupt the show in the middle
of a sentence? Yes, that bothers

28:04.260 --> 28:07.980
me as well. I think a lot of
times that those are caused by

28:07.980 --> 28:12.960
dynamic inserts, right where
your podcast platform allows you

28:12.960 --> 28:16.020
to insert an ad and it'll
interrupt your show, quite

28:16.020 --> 28:19.440
literally and just play the ad.
It's a big pet peeve of mine

28:19.440 --> 28:23.240
too, and I will say this one of
my favorite podcasts, a comedy

28:23.240 --> 28:27.260
podcast. It's now called the
Sebastian Maniscalco show. For a

28:27.260 --> 28:30.560
long time, the Pete and
Sebastian show, they do that.

28:30.740 --> 28:34.700
They do those commercial
interruptions, I wouldn't say

28:34.700 --> 28:38.720
literally mid sentence, but it
does interrupt, and it is kind

28:38.720 --> 28:43.840
of startling, but I will say it
doesn't turn me off. I don't

28:43.840 --> 28:48.220
stop the podcast because I am so
loyal to that podcast and I love

28:48.220 --> 28:51.820
the podcast. I will say I hit
that skip button, you know, as

28:51.820 --> 28:54.760
many times as I need to hit it
until I get back to the content,

28:55.060 --> 28:59.560
but I don't leave the podcast.
Now, if I were a new podcast or

28:59.560 --> 29:03.240
new listener to that podcast,
and I heard that it might turn

29:03.240 --> 29:07.920
me off. I might actually turn it
off and go elsewhere. But if

29:07.920 --> 29:11.460
it's some somebody a podcast
that I know and trust, I'll

29:11.460 --> 29:15.060
usually stick around and I'll
just hit the skip myself. But

29:15.060 --> 29:19.380
I'm with you there, John, for
sure. There it is. There's the

29:19.380 --> 29:24.020
music, all right, so I know I
teased that we were going to go

29:24.020 --> 29:27.740
to Nick and that we were limited
on time, and I was not lying.

29:27.800 --> 29:31.340
Nick can't talk today about what
I wanted to talk about, and I

29:31.340 --> 29:35.300
will tease it, because we'll do
this tomorrow, because tomorrow

29:35.420 --> 29:39.380
we're talking about editing. And
specifically, just to give you a

29:39.380 --> 29:44.560
little plant, the seed for you.
Editing won't fix a bad episode

29:44.560 --> 29:49.180
and over editing might actually
hurt you more than it helps. And

29:49.180 --> 29:51.220
the topic that we're going to
talk about a little bit

29:51.220 --> 29:56.560
tomorrow, along these lines, is
some AI editing. There are some

29:56.560 --> 29:59.140
new tools that I've found. I
don't want to go into details

29:59.140 --> 30:01.560
now, but there are some. New
tools that I've just recently

30:01.560 --> 30:06.000
discovered that's making editing
AI tools specifically, that's

30:06.000 --> 30:11.460
making editing even easier. And
it's a let's just say it's

30:11.460 --> 30:15.240
taking it to a whole other level
than what we're used to and what

30:15.240 --> 30:17.700
we talk about now. So we're
going to talk about that

30:17.700 --> 30:21.680
tomorrow. Nick knows a lot about
how this works, and if it's

30:21.680 --> 30:25.160
something maybe some of us
editors might be concerned

30:25.160 --> 30:27.980
about. So we'll dig into that
too, but we're going to learn

30:27.980 --> 30:31.520
more about your editing process,
your editing tools, and we're

30:31.520 --> 30:36.020
going to discuss bad editing and
how to clean that up. So come

30:36.020 --> 30:40.840
join us tomorrow, 7am Eastern at
podcasting, morning chat, comm

30:40.840 --> 30:45.880
slash. Join us. All right, let's
dig into some let's see what's

30:45.880 --> 30:48.820
we've got about a half hour.
Let's dig into a couple of news

30:48.820 --> 30:52.360
bites, and then we'll get to
some of our top headlines of the

30:52.360 --> 30:58.900
day. First, the unwell Empire is
looking kind of unwell. Alex

30:58.900 --> 31:03.660
Cooper, we all know her better.
Call daddy. Her media machine is

31:03.660 --> 31:07.680
facing a very public stress
test, and this time, the drama

31:07.680 --> 31:12.660
is happening off Mike, according
to reporting from the times,

31:12.900 --> 31:16.860
Cooper's company, trending and
its unwell network are dealing

31:16.860 --> 31:21.860
with internal tension, executive
turnover and allegations that

31:21.860 --> 31:25.400
Cooper's husband and business
partner Matt Kaplan, created a

31:25.400 --> 31:29.720
difficult workplace culture and
in the messy Fallout we reported

31:29.720 --> 31:33.860
a couple of weeks ago with Alex
Earl, who left unwell after

31:33.860 --> 31:38.000
launching hot mess under the
network. So suddenly, it seems

31:38.060 --> 31:41.800
the brand built on chaos is
getting a real life case study

31:41.800 --> 31:46.000
in what happens when chaos moves
from content strategy to company

31:46.000 --> 31:52.120
culture. So that is a ongoing
story that we like I said we got

31:52.120 --> 31:56.320
from the times So more to come
on that we will see what

31:56.320 --> 31:59.320
happens. Dr, do you want to take
Story number three?

31:59.800 --> 32:03.960
DR: Sure Amazon is reshaping
wondery from a traditional

32:03.960 --> 32:08.880
podcast company into something
much bigger and much more

32:08.880 --> 32:13.620
Amazon. The new strategy pushes
beyond audio downloads and ad

32:13.620 --> 32:17.940
reads, using major creator LED
shows like new heights, with

32:17.940 --> 32:22.640
Jason and Travis Kelsey as the
model for turning loyal podcast

32:22.640 --> 32:27.980
audiences into video views,
merch sales, live events, brand

32:27.980 --> 32:33.500
deals and shopping behavior. In
other words, the podcast is no

32:33.500 --> 32:37.460
longer the product. It is the
front door. Naturally,

32:37.460 --> 32:41.800
capitalism has found another
room in the house. So some of

32:41.800 --> 32:45.280
the highlighted points are,
Amazon reportedly cut more than

32:45.400 --> 32:50.140
100 wondery jobs before
rebuilding its podcast business

32:50.140 --> 32:54.820
around creator services and
video first talent, audio only.

32:54.820 --> 32:59.980
Podcasts have been folded more
closely into audible while

32:59.980 --> 33:04.500
wonder his new focus leans into
on camera creators and broader

33:04.500 --> 33:09.120
brand ecosystems. The Kelsey
brothers represents Amazon's

33:09.120 --> 33:14.100
dream scenario, a show with
built in fandom, celebrity

33:14.100 --> 33:19.020
reach, sports, culture and
commerce potential, and this

33:19.020 --> 33:22.400
model could pressure small
creators to think beyond

33:22.400 --> 33:26.540
downloads and start treating
their shows like brands, even if

33:26.540 --> 33:30.740
their current brand empire,
quote, unquote is one Canva

33:30.860 --> 33:35.720
template. And wait a minute,
even if they're hard in the

33:35.720 --> 33:36.080
morning,

33:37.700 --> 33:40.580
Marc Ronick: she said it, she
said it. Hold on. There it is.

33:40.580 --> 33:40.940
Mouth says,

33:42.680 --> 33:45.640
Jingle: glory. Morning. Guess I
forgot. Words are hard in the

33:45.640 --> 33:48.460
morning. Did I say that out
loud?

33:50.620 --> 33:54.580
DR: Okay, it gives me time to
read it. So even if their

33:54.580 --> 33:59.620
current brand Empire is one
Canva template and a ring light,

33:59.980 --> 34:00.480
do we need

34:00.480 --> 34:02.520
Marc Ronick: to hit the button
again? No, don't

34:02.520 --> 34:02.820
DR: do it.

34:07.739 --> 34:09.719
Marc Ronick: All right, go cool.
Well, we got it. Okay, that's

34:09.719 --> 34:13.439
the story. Yeah, interesting.
Amazon really getting their

34:13.439 --> 34:18.239
hands a little dirty here and
really trying to monetize, maybe

34:18.239 --> 34:19.679
too much. Maybe monetize.

34:19.740 --> 34:22.700
DR: Tear it down and they build
it back up. That's

34:22.700 --> 34:25.040
Marc Ronick: right. Sid, did you
want to chime in, and then we'll

34:25.040 --> 34:26.660
go to Nikki, go ahead. Sid,

34:27.260 --> 34:30.080
Sid Meadows: yeah, I do believe
that it's too much what they're

34:30.080 --> 34:33.320
doing, right? It's just too
much. But there is a very good

34:33.320 --> 34:36.380
underlying message here, which,
as an independent creator,

34:36.380 --> 34:39.380
independent podcaster, you need
to think of yourself as the

34:39.380 --> 34:43.060
ecosystem and as a need, you are
a media asset. You are a media

34:43.060 --> 34:47.140
company. And that's not that's
beyond just your podcast. It

34:47.140 --> 34:49.720
includes the blog. If you write
a blog, it includes your social

34:49.720 --> 34:52.420
presence. It includes the
newsletter that you may send

34:52.420 --> 34:54.460
out, the emails that you send
out. So you got to think of

34:54.460 --> 34:57.340
yourself as an ecosystem, and to
me, that's one of the things

34:57.340 --> 35:02.100
that helped me attract the spot.
Answers that I have, because I

35:02.100 --> 35:06.540
have an ecosystem that they
wanted access to. And so when I

35:06.540 --> 35:08.880
understood that, really
understood that, I think it's

35:08.880 --> 35:11.340
important, it actually helped me
a lot. And I think it's

35:11.340 --> 35:14.580
important that we all realize we
are a full ecosystem, and Stacy

35:14.580 --> 35:18.060
does a really great job at
leveraging her ecosystem, and we

35:18.060 --> 35:19.500
have to start thinking like
that.

35:19.980 --> 35:22.160
Marc Ronick: I agree. And Sid, I
would say you've been doing a

35:22.400 --> 35:27.320
great job of that as well, for
sure. Yeah, thank you. Great

35:27.320 --> 35:30.680
point. Yeah, I see Ralph is
emphatically agreeing with you.

35:30.680 --> 35:31.940
Did you want to add on to it?

35:31.940 --> 35:32.180
Ralph,

35:32.600 --> 35:34.940
Ralph Estep Jr.: yeah, I do. I
just said, nailed it. You've got

35:34.940 --> 35:37.820
to look at it like you're a
media company, and you have to

35:37.820 --> 35:40.720
start thinking in terms of all
the different places that you

35:40.720 --> 35:43.900
are hitting people and how that
that ecosystem works. So Sid,

35:43.900 --> 35:44.980
great job, my friend.

35:45.580 --> 35:49.240
Marc Ronick: Thank you, Ralph.
And I just want to quickly say,

35:49.240 --> 35:53.980
BC you're on deck, and just in
case, you know, just in case you

35:53.980 --> 35:58.240
might fall asleep over there,
because we might have noticed

35:58.360 --> 36:02.640
once or twice the dozing, no,
you don't think you were, you

36:02.640 --> 36:03.840
know, am I wrong?

36:04.980 --> 36:07.320
BC Babbles: I think you are this
time, but I may not be aware. I

36:07.320 --> 36:07.560
think

36:07.560 --> 36:07.740
Marc Ronick: good.

36:08.760 --> 36:12.060
Okay, fair. Well, you are on
deck, sir. And in the meantime,

36:12.060 --> 36:16.500
I'm going to give some pod tech
news, and I think that kind of

36:16.500 --> 36:19.860
falls under this umbrella of BCS
as well. So we'll hear from him

36:19.860 --> 36:23.180
in a moment. First off, phonic
recently announced that their

36:23.180 --> 36:26.720
new editing capabilities now
allow users to apply its

36:26.720 --> 36:31.880
automatic cutting features to
video files, not just audio. So

36:31.880 --> 36:35.600
just in case you're unfamiliar,
auphonic, one of the things it's

36:35.840 --> 36:41.140
known for is its audio
enhancement does a great job of

36:41.140 --> 36:44.020
things like removing background
noise. Some of you might be

36:44.020 --> 36:48.640
familiar with Adobe podcasts
enhance. It's like that, but I

36:48.640 --> 36:52.540
think better, and it's been
around a lot longer. So anyway,

36:52.540 --> 36:55.720
as back to the story about now
being able to apply their

36:55.720 --> 36:58.840
features to video, that means
that things like silence,

36:58.840 --> 37:02.460
filler, words, coughs and even
music segments can be removed

37:02.520 --> 37:07.140
directly from video podcast
episodes. The company says the

37:07.440 --> 37:13.740
10 ADP video cutting will be
free, while 4k support sits

37:13.740 --> 37:18.240
behind paid plans, and users can
still jump in manually with its

37:18.240 --> 37:22.400
editor complete with synced
video and audio for precise

37:22.400 --> 37:26.240
control. So go check them
out@auphonic.com if that's of

37:26.240 --> 37:29.660
interest to you, like I said, I
love the service. Long time

37:29.660 --> 37:33.440
user. I think it's great, and it
just continues to get better.

37:33.740 --> 37:37.160
There are free plans, as
mentioned, so you can check that

37:37.160 --> 37:39.620
out and play with it. I think
you get, like, two hours of

37:39.620 --> 37:44.920
free, two hours of content free
every month. So go check that

37:44.920 --> 37:50.260
out. Pod news recently reported
that headliner has made its

37:50.260 --> 37:55.060
video tools free, at least for a
limited time, and that could get

37:55.060 --> 37:58.660
the attention of a lot of indie
and DIY podcasters trying to do

37:58.660 --> 38:03.240
more with video without piling
on more monthly costs. According

38:03.240 --> 38:07.620
to the release, creators can now
make unlimited podcast videos

38:07.740 --> 38:12.360
with no watermarks. It also
ready made templates add

38:12.360 --> 38:17.160
captions to clip and full length
videos automatically pull to 10

38:17.220 --> 38:21.800
moments from longer content. So
much like much like Riverside

38:21.860 --> 38:25.700
with magic clips, it will
automatically create at 10

38:25.760 --> 38:29.300
different clips for you and even
schedule and share those clips

38:29.300 --> 38:33.500
to social media or YouTube.
Headliner says The move comes as

38:33.500 --> 38:36.740
more podcasters embrace video
and production costs keep

38:36.740 --> 38:40.960
rising, so this feels like a
pretty strategic play to lower

38:41.020 --> 38:45.280
the barrier of creators who want
more reach without another

38:45.520 --> 38:49.900
subscription. Hit, all right.
BC, you got something from pod

38:49.900 --> 38:52.120
scribe that you wanted to share.
Go for it.

38:52.780 --> 38:53.320
BC Babbles: Yes.

38:55.060 --> 38:56.020
Marc Ronick: He wasn't sleeping.

38:56.200 --> 38:58.000
BC Babbles: I sent you two
stories. You okayed the first

38:58.000 --> 39:01.020
one that wasn't pod scribe, but
then not the second one. I must

39:01.020 --> 39:03.000
Marc Ronick: have missed. I must
have missed the second one. Go

39:03.000 --> 39:04.320
for it. You're good. Give us
what

39:04.320 --> 39:07.200
BC Babbles: you got. So pod
scribe launches an AI chat bot

39:07.200 --> 39:10.980
for podcast data and
advertising. So they announced a

39:10.980 --> 39:14.400
new AI powered chat bot designed
to help advertisers, agencies

39:14.580 --> 39:18.360
and publishers, quickly turn
podcast data into actionable

39:18.360 --> 39:21.440
insights. So this launch come
also came alongside a new

39:21.740 --> 39:25.400
attribution fee attribution
feature. There we go, called

39:25.400 --> 39:29.000
YouTube smart modeling. But the
headline innovation here is that

39:29.000 --> 39:32.300
a chat bot that lets you talk to
your podcast data instead of

39:32.480 --> 39:38.240
digging through dashboards. So
the chat bot here actually lets

39:38.240 --> 39:41.680
you look at conversational
access to podcast data. So

39:41.680 --> 39:45.160
instead of manually analyzing
dashboards, you can ask

39:45.160 --> 39:48.280
questions in plain new language,
get immediate answers about

39:48.280 --> 39:52.660
shows audiences and campaigns.
For example, would my brand work

39:52.660 --> 39:55.720
with this podcast, or what
audiences listen to this show?

39:56.020 --> 39:59.920
And analytics become more
conversational as a result. It.

40:00.000 --> 40:02.760
Pulls from multiple data
sources, like podcast

40:02.760 --> 40:06.420
transcripts, brand safety
signals, historical sponsors,

40:06.540 --> 40:10.380
audience data and more. So what
this looks like for the industry

40:10.380 --> 40:13.920
is that podcast analytics are
becoming very askable. So

40:13.920 --> 40:16.740
instead of learning dashboards,
you just ask questions and you

40:16.740 --> 40:21.380
get the answers that any kind of
analyst would have to cultivate

40:21.380 --> 40:24.560
and make sound pretty for you.
It also means the real audience

40:24.560 --> 40:27.740
for podcasting is expanding. So
the tool isn't for creators,

40:27.980 --> 40:32.300
it's for media buyers, marketing
teams and agency. So we're

40:32.300 --> 40:36.440
getting this real cool tool that
I almost feel like it kind of

40:36.440 --> 40:40.640
goes back to our earlier talk
about, you know, AI and jobs.

40:40.640 --> 40:43.780
You know, it's kind of taking
the place of an analyst who, you

40:43.780 --> 40:46.480
know, spends time learning how
to look at all these different

40:46.480 --> 40:50.200
interfaces, taking the data,
process it, and then deliver it

40:50.200 --> 40:53.500
to you in a way that's very
human based so you understand

40:53.500 --> 40:56.980
what's been working, what's not
been working, and planning your

40:56.980 --> 40:59.680
future pivots from there. So
it's a pretty interesting

40:59.680 --> 41:02.460
feature. Again, this is coming
from pod scribe, like you said,

41:02.460 --> 41:04.860
but they didn't say much more
about the YouTube smart

41:04.860 --> 41:07.620
modeling, because it was more
about this little chat bot. But

41:07.620 --> 41:09.300
yeah, that's the pod scribe
story.

41:09.780 --> 41:13.620
Marc Ronick: Interesting. Thank
you. BC, yeah, cool way to get

41:13.620 --> 41:17.820
your data. And I guess you said,
you know, this is definitely of

41:17.820 --> 41:21.620
interest to marketers and
advertisers, but also available

41:21.620 --> 41:24.320
and of interest to podcasters
too, right?

41:24.380 --> 41:26.960
BC Babbles: Oh, yeah, it does
reduce the workflow time, so you

41:27.200 --> 41:30.140
like much smaller hours of
research. You don't have to work

41:30.140 --> 41:33.680
with multiple dashboards, no
manual reporting, so it really

41:33.680 --> 41:36.860
kind of consolidates your entire
process.

41:37.400 --> 41:41.380
Marc Ronick: Very cool. Thank
you. BC, appreciate that. Let's

41:41.380 --> 41:44.920
get into a couple of our
headlines before we wrap up

41:44.920 --> 41:51.340
today. Spotify is discovery
advice, clarity beats clever. So

41:51.340 --> 41:54.640
here's the story. Spotify is
head of podcast editorial.

41:54.640 --> 41:58.660
Lizzie Hale shared with POD news
in an interview that the

41:58.780 --> 42:03.300
platform's podcast promotion
strategy is a mix of human

42:03.300 --> 42:08.580
curation, recommendation
systems, cultural awareness and

42:08.580 --> 42:13.440
listener behavior for indie and
DIY podcasters, the big takeaway

42:13.860 --> 42:18.240
is Spotify is looking for shows
that retain listeners, feel

42:18.240 --> 42:22.940
relevant and make it easy for
both the platform and the

42:23.000 --> 42:27.140
audience to understand what the
episode is about. So let me dig

42:27.140 --> 42:30.920
into this a little bit. First,
Spotify has a global editorial

42:30.920 --> 42:34.340
team with dozens of people
across major podcast markets,

42:34.340 --> 42:38.120
including us Germany and South
Korea, the platform uses both

42:38.120 --> 42:41.980
editorial judgment and
recommendation systems to decide

42:41.980 --> 42:46.180
what gets surfaced to listeners.
Spotify says it's looking for

42:46.180 --> 42:49.420
shows that builds strong
listener connection and long

42:49.420 --> 42:54.220
term retention, timely, topical
and culturally relevant episodes

42:54.220 --> 42:57.580
may have an advantage, because
Spotify wants the app experience

42:57.580 --> 43:00.840
to feel current. Now. How
they're doing that, I guess

43:00.840 --> 43:03.840
would be with AI, because we
know that, I can't imagine that

43:03.840 --> 43:07.380
the editorial team is listening
to every podcast episode that's

43:07.380 --> 43:11.040
on the platform. There's
currently no formal submission

43:11.040 --> 43:14.460
form for podcasters who want
editorial promotion. We know

43:14.460 --> 43:17.940
that Apple does have something
like that, so I wouldn't be

43:17.940 --> 43:20.780
surprised if we see something
like that coming from Spotify at

43:20.780 --> 43:23.540
some point, but currently not
available to do that, so we

43:23.540 --> 43:27.740
can't get their attention
anyway, through a form also

43:27.740 --> 43:32.120
clear. Episode titles call back
to yesterday, and descriptions

43:32.240 --> 43:35.900
matter because they help Spotify
understand your content and help

43:35.900 --> 43:39.920
listeners decide whether to
press play. And they've tested

43:39.920 --> 43:43.300
cover art Spotify has and found
that users respond better to

43:43.300 --> 43:47.380
artwork that's clear and
informative, rather than overly

43:47.380 --> 43:52.600
clever or flashy. I want to say
that, or at least I want to make

43:52.600 --> 43:56.440
sure you heard me say that,
because that is an area maybe we

43:56.500 --> 44:00.220
need to have an updated
conversation around cover art

44:00.460 --> 44:05.640
over the next couple of weeks,
because I still see cover art. I

44:05.640 --> 44:11.400
still see it very busy, lots of
words all over it and again. I

44:11.400 --> 44:15.000
know I say it. I've said it
millions of times, but when you

44:15.000 --> 44:19.380
do that, and your little cover
art image is a little thumbnail

44:19.380 --> 44:23.360
on a mobile phone screen.
Nobody's seeing that. Nobody's

44:23.360 --> 44:28.280
connecting with that. And I know
nobody is a big, broad word, but

44:28.280 --> 44:31.760
I'm being a little dramatic.
It's much harder to really

44:31.760 --> 44:36.140
connect with cover art if it's
too busy, too wordy, etc. So

44:36.200 --> 44:40.360
DR: Mark, the one that kills me
is the font that is script, and

44:40.360 --> 44:44.020
it's really thin and it's really
scripty. Do you know what I'm

44:44.020 --> 44:45.160
Marc Ronick: saying? Yeah, it's
hard. That's

44:45.160 --> 44:47.920
DR: the one that kills me,
because you can't make it out

44:47.980 --> 44:50.320
Marc Ronick: right? It's not
legible. Yes, and a lot of

44:50.320 --> 44:54.160
people do that, unfortunately,
yeah, transcripts and chapters

44:54.160 --> 44:57.460
can help discovery on Spotify,
because they give Spotify more

44:57.460 --> 45:03.000
detail about what's inside each
F. Episode, hence AI helping

45:03.000 --> 45:07.860
them do this heavy lift video,
apparently, is not required for

45:07.860 --> 45:10.980
promotion, but Spotify says it's
becoming more and more important

45:11.160 --> 45:14.220
because it gives listeners more
context and creates a stronger

45:14.220 --> 45:19.440
connection with the host. So
that's the story. I'm curious

45:19.500 --> 45:23.360
what people think about the
story, and when you hear that

45:23.360 --> 45:27.320
Spotify uses both people and
algorithms clearly to surface

45:27.680 --> 45:30.380
their shows, what comes to mind?
Do you think this is a good

45:30.380 --> 45:33.800
move? Do you think? Do you
believe that this is something

45:33.800 --> 45:37.520
that actually they're doing to
promote? Because I know for me,

45:37.640 --> 45:40.840
I'm a little skeptical. I feel
like, yes, these are all true

45:40.840 --> 45:45.280
statements, but I still feel
like they're focusing on the big

45:45.280 --> 45:48.280
names and the big shows. That's
the ones that they want to

45:48.280 --> 45:50.980
feature, because the big names
in the big shows, the ones that

45:50.980 --> 45:54.640
are successful, they fit this
mold perfectly that we're

45:54.640 --> 45:58.780
describing here. But what about
the smaller guys? That's what

45:58.780 --> 46:01.440
I'm curious about. Will that
actually make a difference if we

46:01.440 --> 46:05.580
follow all of these, all of this
criteria. Ralph, what are your

46:05.580 --> 46:06.060
thoughts?

46:06.660 --> 46:08.760
Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah. My
question is, I feel like Spotify

46:08.760 --> 46:12.240
is pushing the video side of
things. So is there going to be

46:12.240 --> 46:15.180
a bias towards the people who
are putting video out there as

46:15.180 --> 46:18.360
well? Because I feel like that's
kind of what they're really

46:18.360 --> 46:21.120
trying to drive their audience
to. Not sure what they're going

46:21.120 --> 46:23.580
to do on the audio side, but I
had to be honest, I'm not a huge

46:23.580 --> 46:26.580
Spotify fan. That's just me,
because I don't have a lot of

46:26.580 --> 46:29.513
interaction with it, but I just
feel like they've really made a

46:29.513 --> 46:30.345
push towards video. And I concur
what you're saying, Marc, I

46:30.345 --> 46:34.425
think it just reinforces the big
names that are already being

46:34.425 --> 46:36.825
promoted on their network.
Because think about it like

46:36.885 --> 46:39.825
this, Spotify is whole goal is
to keep you on their network as

46:39.825 --> 46:43.425
long as they can. So they want
to find shows that are going to

46:43.425 --> 46:47.325
keep you staying on their
network, so that they can serve

46:47.325 --> 46:48.165
you up other stuff

46:48.820 --> 46:51.520
Marc Ronick: fair enough, and
like I said in the interview

46:51.520 --> 46:55.600
that they did, they say video is
not required for that for

46:55.600 --> 46:58.420
promotion, but that it's
becoming more and more

46:58.420 --> 47:02.760
important. So who knows, but I
kind of agree with you, Ralph. I

47:02.760 --> 47:07.140
feel like they're going to favor
video podcasts more because they

47:07.140 --> 47:11.100
are pushing it so much. But
that's more speculation than

47:11.640 --> 47:15.120
anything, more than what this
article is saying. So we will

47:15.120 --> 47:19.440
see. And by the way, let's see.
John says anyone else besides me

47:19.620 --> 47:25.280
couldn't care less about what
Spotify says that? And Ralph is

47:25.280 --> 47:29.600
raising his hand, yeah. I mean,
that is fair. That is fair. You

47:29.600 --> 47:33.020
know, it's hard because they are
becoming a leader here in the

47:33.020 --> 47:36.320
podcast space. I know a lot of
people say they're becoming the

47:36.320 --> 47:40.100
number one platform. I have yet
to experience that on this show,

47:40.100 --> 47:43.720
or my clients, for that matter,
and a lot of you that I know

47:43.780 --> 47:47.620
still say Apple is the number
one platform as far as your

47:47.620 --> 47:51.460
listeners go. But that's an
interesting statement. John,

47:51.460 --> 47:55.420
yes, and was it? BC, yeah, I
don't know. BC, asked the I

47:55.420 --> 47:58.360
mentioned the name of the person
being interviewed in this story,

47:58.420 --> 48:03.300
Lizzie Hale. And he's asking, Is
that Lizzie Hale of the band

48:03.300 --> 48:07.380
hail storm? I don't know, but it
kind I mean, how many Lizzie

48:07.380 --> 48:11.220
Hales are there? And in the
entertainment industry, usually

48:11.220 --> 48:12.540
there can only be one.

48:12.720 --> 48:13.800
BC Babbles: How does she spell
her name?

48:14.400 --> 48:17.340
Marc Ronick: L, I, z, z, y, H,
A, L, E,

48:17.400 --> 48:18.720
BC Babbles: nah, that ain't my
girl. Never mind.

48:19.200 --> 48:19.680
Marc Ronick: Okay.

48:22.080 --> 48:23.000
BC Babbles: L, z, z, y,

48:23.600 --> 48:26.480
Marc Ronick: oh, right, that's
true. That's true, and maybe

48:26.480 --> 48:30.020
it'll surprise you, BC, but I've
seen hailstorm live before.

48:30.440 --> 48:33.620
That's mainly because of my
daughter, but still, yeah,

48:34.580 --> 48:35.120
BC Babbles: I gotta go.

48:37.580 --> 48:40.900
Marc Ronick: All right, cool, so
let's keep it moving to the next

48:40.900 --> 48:45.340
story. This one is about
YouTube. YouTube's new shorts

48:45.340 --> 48:50.380
limit could cut off a big
podcast growth funnel. YouTube's

48:50.380 --> 48:54.580
rolling out a feature that lets
their users set a daily limit

48:54.580 --> 49:00.360
for shorts even all the way down
to zero and and Barrett media

49:00.360 --> 49:05.160
argues that we should be worried
as independent podcasters, if

49:05.160 --> 49:09.060
we're relying on short clips for
discovery. The current the

49:09.060 --> 49:14.640
concern is if fewer people are
casually falling into shorts,

49:14.940 --> 49:18.720
one of the easiest and cheapest
ways of indie creators to for

49:18.720 --> 49:22.220
indie creators to get
discovered, could get a lot less

49:22.280 --> 49:26.780
reliable. So the article frames
that this it frames it more as a

49:26.840 --> 49:31.040
digital wellness feature on the
surface, but says it could also

49:31.040 --> 49:34.880
reduce exposure for creators who
depend on shorts as that top

49:34.880 --> 49:38.900
funnel audience growth tool. And
a lot of us have shared that our

49:39.020 --> 49:42.460
shorts, when we put them on
YouTube, historically seem to

49:42.460 --> 49:47.020
get more engagement, more views
over on YouTube than it does on

49:47.020 --> 49:50.440
other platforms. So that's why
I'm feeling called to share this

49:50.440 --> 49:54.400
story with you. It goes on for
independent podcasters, shorts

49:54.400 --> 49:57.460
have become exactly what I'm
saying, that low cost way to

49:57.460 --> 50:01.440
turn one episode into multiple
discovery. Moments, especially

50:01.440 --> 50:04.680
when they don't have the budget
for paid promotion or a full

50:04.680 --> 50:10.260
marketing team, a cap that users
can lower to zero means some

50:10.260 --> 50:14.400
viewers may effectively remove
shorts from their daily YouTube

50:14.400 --> 50:18.060
experience altogether, shrinking
the pool of passive discovery

50:18.060 --> 50:21.800
that many creators have been
counting on. The bigger issue

50:21.800 --> 50:25.940
underneath the story is platform
dependence. If a creator's

50:25.940 --> 50:30.740
audience growth is too tied to
one feature inside one app, a

50:30.740 --> 50:35.240
single product update can
suddenly change the game. This

50:35.240 --> 50:38.060
also adds more pressure on
podcasters to build stronger

50:38.060 --> 50:41.320
direct relationships through
things like your email lists,

50:41.320 --> 50:46.840
subscriber communities, search,
friendly titles, a full episode

50:47.260 --> 50:50.980
and full episode content that
can live beyond one

50:50.980 --> 50:55.360
recommendation feature. So I'm
curious. I know I said in the

50:55.360 --> 50:58.120
past, I've heard from our
community that shorts are

50:58.120 --> 51:01.140
actually bringing you real
listeners, or at least getting

51:01.140 --> 51:06.300
you more exposure over on
YouTube. So is that the case for

51:06.300 --> 51:10.140
you, or is it? Are you maybe
just getting more views, but

51:10.140 --> 51:12.540
it's not translating? I guess
this is somewhat of a

51:12.540 --> 51:15.540
continuation, too, of last week,
when we talked about or I was

51:15.540 --> 51:19.740
sharing how I don't think
podcast clips specifically are

51:19.740 --> 51:23.480
really getting strong attention
these days anymore, on any

51:23.480 --> 51:26.720
platform, for that matter,
again, unless you already have a

51:26.720 --> 51:30.020
big following. And that's a
general statement I've heard

51:30.020 --> 51:33.020
from some community members,
like Stephen Cofer in our

51:33.020 --> 51:36.260
Facebook group, who has said the
opposite of what I'm just

51:36.260 --> 51:40.100
saying, that he's put out some
shorts, and it's worked really

51:40.100 --> 51:43.900
well for him, and it's gotten
him more listeners that way.

51:44.020 --> 51:47.500
There are exceptions, but I
still feel strongly. So anyway,

51:47.560 --> 51:51.160
are shorts actually bringing you
real listeners, or do you think

51:51.160 --> 51:53.620
you're mainly just getting
views? That's my question.

51:53.620 --> 51:54.640
Ralph, what do you got?

51:55.240 --> 51:58.180
Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, I think
shorts reinforce your existing

51:58.240 --> 52:02.460
audience, but I'm not sure that
they bring you a new audience. I

52:02.460 --> 52:04.740
think that's my takeaway from
it, because I do a ton of

52:04.740 --> 52:07.740
shorts, like every every day. We
put out seven or eight shorts,

52:08.100 --> 52:11.460
and they get decent viewership,
but I'm not sure that they

52:11.460 --> 52:14.520
translate into new audio podcast
listeners,

52:14.700 --> 52:17.100
Marc Ronick: speaking of too
much noise, Ralph, and I mean

52:17.100 --> 52:21.380
this with all due respect, I
wonder if maybe, and I know that

52:21.380 --> 52:24.260
there are plenty of social media
experts that would tell me I'm

52:24.260 --> 52:28.580
wrong here, but I wonder if
maybe doing less clips might

52:29.000 --> 52:32.540
improve your connection with
your audience, and maybe we

52:32.540 --> 52:35.960
don't want to flood them with
too much content every day and

52:35.960 --> 52:39.260
just give them, you know, let's
say three of the biggest

52:39.260 --> 52:42.280
moments. And I know you do a
daily podcast, so you always

52:42.280 --> 52:45.160
have a lot of clips that you can
share, but I wonder if limiting

52:45.160 --> 52:46.060
them could help.

52:46.540 --> 52:48.640
Ralph Estep Jr.: We actually
tested that mark for like, 90

52:48.640 --> 52:53.200
days, and what we found is that
we got the same viewership if we

52:53.200 --> 52:56.620
release three clips a day versus
one clip a day. And the other

52:56.620 --> 52:59.200
issue that I have is having
three shows now four shows, if

52:59.200 --> 53:02.160
we include this one is, I guess
you can make the argument, I'm

53:02.160 --> 53:06.480
sort of overexposed, so that is
a legitimate concern, and it's

53:06.480 --> 53:09.120
interesting. I just hired a
publicist to help me with that,

53:09.120 --> 53:12.720
so we'll see how that plays out.
But it's a very valid point

53:12.720 --> 53:15.240
mark, and it's something I think
maybe we'll test again and see

53:15.240 --> 53:16.020
what that looks like.

53:16.500 --> 53:18.840
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and I want to
actually a little tease we are

53:18.840 --> 53:23.420
going to have that publicist
join us on this very show next

53:23.420 --> 53:24.500
month. So

53:24.620 --> 53:24.860
she's

53:24.860 --> 53:27.080
Ralph Estep Jr.: planning to
come in on Tuesday May the 12th.

53:27.080 --> 53:30.620
Her name is Cindy Harrison, so
make sure you join us on Tuesday

53:30.620 --> 53:31.280
May the 12th.

53:31.880 --> 53:36.500
DR: Hey, Ralph, can I ask a
question? So you said, you said

53:36.560 --> 53:42.880
that the shorts are getting you.
Maybe your current listeners are

53:43.120 --> 53:46.780
watching the shorts, but it's
not getting new listeners. So

53:46.780 --> 53:48.340
what are you doing to bring
those in?

53:49.000 --> 53:51.940
Ralph Estep Jr.: I think for new
listeners, I my particular thing

53:51.940 --> 53:55.300
is I do a ton of advertising.
That's just what I do. I spend

53:55.420 --> 53:56.260
money on that,

53:56.260 --> 53:57.280
DR: paid advertising.

53:57.280 --> 53:58.840
Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, paid
advertising. But that's me,

53:58.840 --> 54:01.440
yeah, and not everybody. It's
interesting. I was working with

54:01.440 --> 54:04.260
a client yesterday who she just
signed up for a 15 minute

54:04.260 --> 54:06.600
discovery call, and she goes,
Ralph. She says, I don't have a

54:06.600 --> 54:08.640
budget like you have. And I
said, Okay, well, let's think

54:08.640 --> 54:11.100
about this differently, and
there are different ways to do

54:11.100 --> 54:15.240
it on a zero budget. I just
think it's a harder path to

54:15.240 --> 54:18.900
take. I think you got to be on
other shows, guesting on other

54:18.900 --> 54:21.860
shows, and introducing yourself
to other audiences that you're

54:21.860 --> 54:24.260
not in front of, and honestly,
that's one of the reasons I

54:24.260 --> 54:27.620
hired a publicist, is because I
want to get out there in other

54:27.620 --> 54:30.680
arenas where I'm not seen all
the time, so that people are

54:30.680 --> 54:32.660
exposed to the virus that is,
Ralph,

54:35.780 --> 54:38.480
Marc Ronick: thank you. Ralph,
yep, Janae, did you have

54:38.480 --> 54:38.840
something

54:39.320 --> 54:42.400
Junaid: absolutely so really
great point on the shorts and

54:42.400 --> 54:46.600
how it's how YouTube's
implementing that thing. Some

54:46.600 --> 54:49.540
people say, Hey, I don't want to
watch shorts. One thing that I

54:49.540 --> 54:55.300
have noticed is flips from
longer form content is not going

54:55.300 --> 54:58.300
to perform well anymore, and
that's because people are

54:58.300 --> 55:03.660
watching content. That's
specifically made for short form

55:03.660 --> 55:07.020
video, meaning you're talking
directly to the person. Hey,

55:07.320 --> 55:10.200
here's what I talked about on
this podcast. Here's what you

55:10.200 --> 55:14.760
can learn. Go listen to this
episode that works more than

55:15.000 --> 55:18.060
just a fragment of a
conversation pulled from your

55:18.060 --> 55:19.440
set, from your episode,

55:19.920 --> 55:22.880
Marc Ronick: and is that based
on your experience, or based on

55:22.880 --> 55:24.860
what you've heard others talking
about?

55:24.980 --> 55:27.680
Junaid: That's based on
experience? What Pat Flynn has

55:27.680 --> 55:31.760
been testing for the past 450,
days, 500 days, and he's got a

55:31.760 --> 55:35.300
course coming on that he
specifically talks about this.

55:35.660 --> 55:39.980
He's done multiple challenges as
well, and this is exactly what

55:40.100 --> 55:42.340
others that have gone through
the challenge are also

55:42.340 --> 55:43.060
experiencing

55:43.360 --> 55:46.480
Marc Ronick: so basically, if I
were to create a short for

55:46.480 --> 55:49.780
today's show, Junaid, your
suggestion, based on all of

55:49.780 --> 55:55.240
that, is that I actually hit
record on a video I talk about

55:55.240 --> 55:58.780
maybe one of these stories like
YouTube shorts create now has

55:58.780 --> 56:02.340
limits that users can pick and
choose, I just sit and talk to

56:02.340 --> 56:06.360
camera, tell my audience what we
talk about, instead of actually

56:06.360 --> 56:08.580
just playing a clip of this
conversation.

56:09.060 --> 56:10.620
Junaid: Yes, okay, yes,

56:10.800 --> 56:11.340
Marc Ronick: interesting.

56:11.340 --> 56:13.980
Junaid: Because I don't know if
you know, but when people are

56:13.980 --> 56:16.920
talking on the phone and they
don't have the speaker on, and

56:16.920 --> 56:20.660
you're listening part of the
conversation, your brain is kind

56:20.660 --> 56:23.060
of like disconnected. I'm like,
wait, what's happening on the

56:23.060 --> 56:25.640
other side? And you probably
experienced it yourself. Your

56:25.640 --> 56:27.980
wife is talking to somebody, and
you're like, Hey, what are you

56:28.160 --> 56:30.800
talking about? And then later
on, she comes back and tells you

56:30.860 --> 56:33.920
the whole story. That's
essentially what people are

56:33.980 --> 56:36.200
jumping into when they're
listening to these clips. And

56:36.200 --> 56:39.680
they're like, Wait, I don't
really care what happened, so

56:39.680 --> 56:42.820
I'm just gonna skip through, but
if you're directing, you're

56:42.820 --> 56:45.640
basically breaking that fourth
wall and talking to the person

56:45.640 --> 56:48.640
on the other side. And I've seen
this myself. The content that

56:48.640 --> 56:51.820
I'm really pulled into is when
somebody's talking directly to

56:51.820 --> 56:54.220
me a message that they're
delivering. I'm going to watch

56:54.220 --> 56:56.860
this short even if it's five
minutes, eight minutes, 10

56:56.920 --> 57:00.180
minutes long. And I've
experienced that for myself, and

57:00.180 --> 57:02.940
I know others have as well,
because there's 1000s of

57:02.940 --> 57:07.380
comments on that video alone. So
that's what's been working, and

57:07.380 --> 57:09.960
that's that's where everybody's
going to as well.

57:10.320 --> 57:12.720
Marc Ronick: Cool. Thank you.
Junaid Sid, did you want to add

57:12.720 --> 57:13.140
something?

57:13.800 --> 57:15.780
Sid Meadows: I'm a really small
YouTube creator, so let's be

57:15.780 --> 57:18.060
very clear about that. But at
the beginning of the season, we

57:18.060 --> 57:21.080
started posting a few shorts,
and we've amped that up a little

57:21.320 --> 57:26.660
bit. They're getting about 40 to
60 views. Great, right? I mean,

57:26.720 --> 57:29.120
there's not a lot of intention
behind it, other than we have

57:29.120 --> 57:32.180
them. Let's put them up there.
And since the beginning of our

57:32.180 --> 57:36.080
season, which is in February, we
went from 20 subscribers to, I

57:36.080 --> 57:39.500
just checked, we have 49
subscribers on YouTube. So my

57:39.500 --> 57:42.340
little YouTube channel is
growing. I'm nowhere near Ralph,

57:42.580 --> 57:45.280
but I'm happy with it. It's
growing, which means I'm getting

57:45.280 --> 57:47.380
more exposure. And part of it
may have to do with we

57:47.380 --> 57:50.740
completely changed the way that
the video looks as well because

57:50.740 --> 57:55.180
of gymnade and Ecamm. And we're
able to use Ecamm now to produce

57:55.180 --> 57:57.460
the show a little bit better, if
I can remember to change the

57:57.460 --> 58:01.140
scenes. But it's growing, and
I'm really happy that my little

58:01.140 --> 58:05.160
channel is growing, and for me,
the shorts are working to a

58:05.160 --> 58:05.580
degree.

58:05.760 --> 58:08.100
Marc Ronick: Yeah. Awesome.
Congratulations. Sid, and there

58:08.100 --> 58:11.340
you go. There are two examples
of, you know, organic growth

58:11.340 --> 58:15.360
versus paid growth, and both can
work, but you just have to have

58:15.360 --> 58:19.260
different expectations as far as
how quickly they work, right?

58:19.260 --> 58:22.340
But I love it. Sid, I'm in your
camp, at least for the time

58:22.340 --> 58:25.940
being with the podcasting
morning chat, and it's fun to

58:25.940 --> 58:29.540
watch that YouTube channel start
to slowly grow. It's cool to see

58:29.540 --> 58:34.340
people joining us live. It's
cool to see the after the live

58:34.340 --> 58:38.360
is out there and available for
people. More people are viewing

58:38.360 --> 58:42.940
that over on YouTube. It is fun
to see. And, yeah, I think that

58:42.940 --> 58:46.240
it's just a matter of setting
our expectations in the right

58:46.240 --> 58:49.180
place. BC, on the other Oh, go
sorry, no, no, go ahead.

58:49.360 --> 58:51.700
Sid Meadows: Additionally, we've
seen a growth. We've seen a

58:51.700 --> 58:55.240
spike in Spotify listeners,
which is very interesting to me,

58:55.240 --> 58:58.420
but we've seen a spike in
Spotify listeners. Now we have

58:58.420 --> 59:02.040
enough to actually get some data
from the Spotify back end,

59:02.040 --> 59:05.400
right? But we are. We're
gathering it all together, but

59:05.400 --> 59:09.960
we are going to start testing
clips on Spotify to see if

59:09.960 --> 59:12.840
because they offer that. So
we're going to test that and see

59:12.840 --> 59:15.540
if that brings any more Spotify
listeners. So as soon as we

59:15.540 --> 59:18.300
start that test, I can report
back as to whether or not it

59:18.300 --> 59:20.780
brought us any additional growth
on the end Spotify.

59:20.960 --> 59:24.020
Marc Ronick: You're talking
about adding the adding clips to

59:24.080 --> 59:25.520
the episode, attaching it,

59:26.060 --> 59:29.240
Sid Meadows: yeah, you can add
shorts or clips, right? And

59:29.300 --> 59:33.080
Spotify has, I guess, a feed
where I don't use Spotify, so it

59:33.080 --> 59:35.780
has a speed where you can go and
view them. So we're gonna test

59:35.780 --> 59:37.040
it and just see what happens.

59:37.040 --> 59:39.740
Marc Ronick: Yeah, good idea.
And I can tell you that for me,

59:40.160 --> 59:43.840
it's never worked, except for
one video, and that was the

59:43.840 --> 59:47.620
Steve from Blue's Clues episode
that we did that one got a lot

59:47.620 --> 59:51.400
of the clip itself, got a lot of
views, which seems to have

59:51.400 --> 59:55.540
translated to a lot of listens
on the actual podcast. Any other

59:55.540 --> 01:00:00.180
time I've put anything up, it's
gotten 00, impressions, zero. Of

01:00:00.180 --> 01:00:04.860
views, just a whole row of
zeros. So I don't know how it

01:00:04.860 --> 01:00:08.100
works, or when they decide to
push anything out, or how, yeah,

01:00:08.100 --> 01:00:12.000
how they decide to do that. I
have no idea. But worth testing,

01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:14.400
and it might work a lot better
for you than it has for me.

01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:16.980
Maybe I'm just putting out
really lousy clips. I don't

01:00:16.980 --> 01:00:21.200
know. BC you wanted a word, I'll
give you the final one.

01:00:21.260 --> 01:00:23.240
BC Babbles: Well, speaking of
views, that collaboration clip

01:00:23.240 --> 01:00:26.540
you and I just released has
nearly 1200 views, at least on

01:00:26.840 --> 01:00:30.380
Instagram alone. But that aside,
a curiosity that I have, though

01:00:30.620 --> 01:00:35.060
most hosts platforms give you
the chance to release a teaser

01:00:35.300 --> 01:00:39.200
alongside full episodes, and I
wonder, I've never done that,

01:00:39.200 --> 01:00:41.080
just because I've always
thought, well, let's keep the

01:00:41.080 --> 01:00:44.080
shorts for like YouTube. But
does anyone actually utilize

01:00:44.080 --> 01:00:47.320
that on their hosting platform
as an alternate to the visual

01:00:47.320 --> 01:00:49.120
shorts to help promote their
show?

01:00:49.720 --> 01:00:52.120
Marc Ronick: I'm not sure I
completely follow the question,

01:00:52.120 --> 01:00:52.960
but maybe someone

01:00:52.960 --> 01:00:55.420
BC Babbles: else, when you go to
like, release an episode on

01:00:55.420 --> 01:00:59.020
Captivate whatever you use for
your host, there's usually an

01:00:59.020 --> 01:01:02.640
option to label the file you're
releasing as either a full

01:01:02.640 --> 01:01:06.240
episode or some kind of teaser
or trailer as opposed to a full

01:01:06.240 --> 01:01:10.320
episode. So I wonder. I've never
used that to release, like audio

01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:14.100
shorts on any of my shows, but I
wonder, out of curiosity, if

01:01:14.100 --> 01:01:17.460
anyone's ever utilized that as
opposed to a visual YouTube

01:01:17.460 --> 01:01:20.720
short for promotionals between
full episodes.

01:01:21.260 --> 01:01:22.820
Marc Ronick: Yeah, that's
interesting. I don't think,

01:01:22.820 --> 01:01:26.480
well, I know we haven't, and I'm
not seeing anybody volunteer

01:01:26.480 --> 01:01:30.080
there in that they have yet, but
maybe that's worth a test, BC,

01:01:30.080 --> 01:01:33.320
and then we can do a live
experiment and see if it's

01:01:33.320 --> 01:01:36.860
helpful for you. Let's try that
out. Yeah, let's check that out.

01:01:36.860 --> 01:01:39.920
Okay, listen gang. We thank you
for hanging out. I know we went

01:01:39.920 --> 01:01:42.980
a little over time today, thank
you for sticking around

01:01:43.025 --> 01:01:47.465
tomorrow. Like I said, we're
going to be discussing editing

01:01:47.885 --> 01:01:52.565
because editing won't fix a bad
episode, and over editing might

01:01:52.565 --> 01:01:55.505
actually hurt you more than it
helps. So we're going to talk

01:01:55.505 --> 01:01:57.845
about that. We're going to talk
about the different tools that

01:01:57.845 --> 01:02:00.545
we're using. We're going to
specifically talk about some AI

01:02:00.545 --> 01:02:05.405
that is now doing your editing
for you completely. We'll find

01:02:05.405 --> 01:02:07.730
out more about that as well. So
come join us tomorrow.

01:02:07.790 --> 01:02:12.230
podcastingmorningchat.com/joinus.
And if you're feeling a little

01:02:12.350 --> 01:02:15.350
generous and want to support
this show, go to

01:02:15.350 --> 01:02:20.930
podcastingmorningchat.com/support
and give to this show. And we

01:02:20.930 --> 01:02:23.570
take that I don't want to use
the word, I'm trying to avoid

01:02:23.570 --> 01:02:27.710
the word that Ralph says, don't
use if you want to, and what we

01:02:27.710 --> 01:02:33.335
do with that monetary support is
we put that right back into this

01:02:33.335 --> 01:02:38.195
show to help it continue on. So
consider that. And in the

01:02:38.195 --> 01:02:41.615
meantime, join us tomorrow at
7am Eastern. And until then,

01:02:42.035 --> 01:02:44.975
make it a great day. Everybody.
Take care. Bye.