298 - What Learning Looks Like In Podcasting

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Good morning podcasting morning
Chat.

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Today is Tuesday, May 6th, 2025,
May the 6th be with you.

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Today we're asking our PMC
community how podcasts help them

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learn and the best ways podcasts
get teachable.

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What do we know that works, and
what have we learned that really

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stuck with us after hearing a
show?

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As always, a big welcome to our
Live Crew in Clubhouse this

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morning.
And if you're catching this on

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the replay, welcome to you too.
Stick around and give us 30

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seconds and then we'll get
started.

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Here we go.
Good morning, everybody.

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Welcome to what is probably an
unfamiliar voice as you'd expect

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for the coming weeks with Mark
being away.

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But I am Matthew Bliss, a
regular upstage Comer goer.

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I don't know, running out of
words.

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Alex Balish, help me out.
No.

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Problem.
I was just going to see how far

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you were going to, you know, go
there.

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Yeah, Just welcome everybody.
We've got Ashley, we've got Dan,

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we've got Dr. Sid.
Nick and Amanda is here with

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Mark in the downstairs lounge.
Before we get into our our main

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topic, I want to thank Dan for
first making sure that the song

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and everything worked out well
along with Ashley.

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I know Dr. has been doing a lot
of work and it's good to be the

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second group that's going
because we got all the bugs

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worked out because Sid did such
a great job yesterday on his

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feet.
It was like hot potato trying to

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figure out what the heck we were
doing.

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The first thing I wanted to talk
about, and I know the the room

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people are still kind of filing
in and if you guys want to share

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this with anybody on Clubhouse
or however you listen to it, Why

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do you why did you start your
podcast?

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What was the reason?
Was it because you wanted a

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really cool snowball Mike?
Was it because you had some

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passion for some topic that you
really had to get out?

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And you know, Ashley, what was
like?

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What was one of the reasons why
you started your podcast?

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Good morning.
Thanks, Alex.

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One of the reasons I started my
podcast was to help the local

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people of Panama City, Panama
City Beach process that they had

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been through a natural disaster.
It's not something you go

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through every day and I just
wanted to offer some hope for

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the community so they could go
on my podcast and talk about

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what they've been through and
how they had grown since the

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storm.
So you have that answer and then

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you have, you know, Amanda, why
did you guys start?

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Why did you and Chris start?
Oh, well, an app called Fireside

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came along and we needed
something to do to get approved

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to be a member over there.
So I made Chris do it with me.

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And you know, five seasons
later, we're still having fun.

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It gave me an A necessity and
then turned into something

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really great and fun.
Exactly.

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I mean, how many?
You have over 100,000 downloads,

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right?
Audio downloads, yes, OK.

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You know, and then there's Dr.
Why did you start?

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Wait, did we start a podcast
yet?

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You are a dirty dog.
I so am I.

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Dirty, dirty dog.
I'm just making sure.

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I just wanted to make sure
'cause I know Mark was, was

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trying to be accountable.
But the reason I say that is it,

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it kind of comes back to our,
our our topic for today, you

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know, and I'm going to let Matt
get into it a little bit more.

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What do we really learn from a
podcast?

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And I think before we started,
you know, did you listen to the

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radio and what podcasts are are
really that you love listening

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to?
And Dan, what did you have to

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say?
Man?

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Yes, thank you.
Good morning.

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I wanted to add to this initial
question.

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I had to think about it
initially when you asked it, to

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be honest, but I used to host
live fireside chats for an

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organization called Startup
Grind.

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It was a global community for
startup entrepreneurs throughout

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the world.
And I loved sitting down and

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having those conversations with
business leaders, entrepreneurs,

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investors.
And that was missing from my

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world when I moved to a new
location.

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And yeah, so I decided to start
my podcast so that I could

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continue that journey of having
those conversations with people.

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And that's awesome.
I mean it, you know, everybody

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has their story and I know Matt
and Dr. because you work with a

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lot of different clients, you
know, they'll come to you and

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they'll be like, I want to start
this podcast.

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And Matt, I, I know you have
like a whole list of things that

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you tell your clients, but it,
you know what, what podcasts do

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you like listening to that you
think that that people can learn

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from?
Thanks, Alex.

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The overall idea of the topic
today was going to be learning

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in general from podcasts.
So learning how to do podcasts

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themselves is an interesting one
because you can almost learn

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from best practices of any
podcast really.

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It's a bit hard to see behind
the scenes of production and

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what's going on to get the
podcast out there for people,

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but I find that a lot of the
learning that I get, both for my

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business and clients and for
myself, is listening to the ones

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that I hear something different
in or hear something unusual in.

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DI you have you got something
that you'd like to share in

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terms of?
Teaching through when?

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Yeah.
When Alex asked the question, I

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immediately thought of my
mentors, which is Alan Shively.

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He has a podcast called
Podcasting Business School.

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I never missed that one.
Dave Jackson ask podcast coach

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every Saturday on YouTube and
his other podcast, you know, and

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David Hooper, the big bot, the
big podcast.

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Those are my 3:00 that I never,
ever miss.

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But aside from that, when people
learn that I am a podcast

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producer, their first question
is, well, what's a podcast

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producer do?
Because you know, anyone can do

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a podcast, anyone can do a
podcast.

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It's following up with that
second podcast and the third

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podcast and so on and so forth
that and make it successful.

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That's the hard part.
And so I usually tell people,

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well, I you know, what you can
do is you can do it all by

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yourself by watching a ton of
YouTube videos.

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And then that course, the, let's
say you were going to build a

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home, you can watch a ton of
YouTube videos on, you know, the

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materials that you'll need,
permits that you'll need,

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plumbing, electrical, all the
stuff that involves in building

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a home.
Or you can hire a contractor who

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is an expert in their field, has
been through all of that and has

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learned from mistakes that you
don't have to make.

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So that's how I kind of
explained to people, you know

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what I do?
It's a great way to do it.

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I think learning by doing is one
of those things in podcasting

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that gets talked about a lot,
but it very much is the truth.

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Like you kind of, you have to
practice it.

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You have to take the things that
you see and actually make them

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happen, which you can't do
necessarily with a house because

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you know, you might need the
plumbing.

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And you can watch plenty of
YouTube videos about how to

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build electrical into a wall.
But unless you're an

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electrician, it becomes
incredibly difficult.

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But I want to expand the scope
of the conversation a little bit

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and distill that essence down
into what learning, how learning

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happens from podcasts and when
it happens effectively.

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Because us as podcasters, when
we're trying to learn from other

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podcasters, we kind of know what
we're looking for.

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Like how many albums did they
leave in or how many did they

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take out or what was the quality
of the production that went

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through that.
And have a quick peek at their

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YouTube video version and see
what equipment they're using.

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But for learning in general,
podcasts share a very unique

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kind of space where you can
engage with a podcast to be

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entertained, or you can do it to
learn something very

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specifically from it.
I know that the Mel Robbins

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podcast features quite heavily,
and Mel Robbins herself features

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quite heavily on this show with
Mark's inspiration and the rest

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of you that enjoy her work too.
But there's a little bit of

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background for me.
I in a previous life, I was IT

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support in a school for about 7
or 8 years and then I got my

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secondary teaching degree.
So when you do something like

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that and you learn how to teach
children, it's very hard not to

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see the signs of what people are
trying to do and not trying to

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do and sometimes fail terribly
with trying to create learning

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opportunities on their show.
And I can see Ashley's also

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charming in there used to be a
teacher as well, very common

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among musicians, I think.
So the having a teaching

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background and seeing how
learning happens in the

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classroom and seeing how people
do that in podcasts particularly

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can be really interesting.
So I, I was wondering if anyone

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on the stage now had any ideas
of podcasts they've listened to

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where they've learned something
that they've then been able to

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action later.
It doesn't necessarily just have

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to be about podcasting itself.
Could be any kind of task, any

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kind of skill that you might
want to learn, AI, for example.

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But the goal here, I'm hoping,
is that anyone who is listening

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to this, who does have a
podcast, focus on teaching

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people things that we can
distill that essence down so

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that they can learn how to
successfully do it for their own

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show.
And just very quickly as an

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example, a couple of examples
for myself that I've gathered

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over the years, I'm a big fan of
Manoush Zamorodi.

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He used to work with The New
York Times and now works with

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NPR.
Actually.

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She's had a couple of podcasts
called Note to Self, and then a

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more recent one called Body
Electric.

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And both of those are focused on
the way our brains work, our

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engagement with social media,
and how to get the most from our

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activity, not just from a
physiological perspective, but

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also from a neurological
perspective.

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And she's cast an extremely wide
net across maybe 8 years of her

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podcasting career that you
wouldn't get unless you followed

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her directly.
But she actions research, she's

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got a journalistic background.
So the shows that she creates

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are incredibly well structured.
They tend to be very well

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supported, but she has that
learning and that provision in

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mind of making sure that people
can take what she needs them to

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from the episodes that they
listen to, regardless of their

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engagement.
Now we've got a couple of people

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who want to jump in.
So Ashley, I think you were in

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there first.
What would you like to share?

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Yeah, thank you.
We were talking about learning

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and I think the podcast that
I've learned.

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From the most have been the ones
that are very story driven.

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In fact, while being a teacher,
I remember being at a workshop

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and they were teaching us
teachers all about storytelling.

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And the idea that they were
trying to transmit is that

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students learn best through
storytelling.

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And what are those podcasts that
have has taught me so much about

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life and how to tell a good
story?

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Is This American Life?
Not only for its content, but

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they know how to split up a
story into acts.

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They know how to capture it at
different angles.

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They use excellent sound design.
And all of those things are

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things that I've taken as
inspiration for my own podcast.

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That's great.
And what do you think, Ashley,

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would be one of the things that
you've mentioned that really

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helps the learning as part of
that, if you could distill it

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down to anything?
I would say how they really

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humanize everyone.
You really, when you listen to

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This American Life, you still
realize that these are real

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humans.
This isn't a reality show, this

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is more of a documentary.
So I would say what I really

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learned is how to really tell
human stories in an honest way.

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But at the same time, folks
really can feel for them with

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those things like sound design
and putting those acts into

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place.
So it's the authenticity and the

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connection that really cements
the learning there.

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That's really great.
Sid, I think you were Next up

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and then we'll jump over to
Alex.

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Sid.
Morning everybody.

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I'm always learning, most
listening to learn reading to

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learn, I guess you'd call me an
active learner.

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And then I always try to
implement as much as I possibly

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can that is relevant to my
journey, where I am on my

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journey.
And one of my favorite podcasts

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to listen to are podcasts around
leadership because each and

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every one of us is the leader,
whether you have a team of

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people or not.
So I'm always listening to

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things that are about leadership
and leadership styles.

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And I have two, I've mentioned
these before, 2 that I really go

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to every week, but one of my
favorites is called How Leaders

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Lead by my gosh, I just lost the
guy's name, David Novak.

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David Novak is the retired CEO
of Yum Brands, which includes

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Pizza Hut, Taco Bell and
something else.

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And he interviews some really
amazing leaders throughout all

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different types of industries.
And he has some really great

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conversations with them that
just provide insights about

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leadership style, communication,
managing people, growth, ideas

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about ways they grew their
business, how they overcame

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struggles and challenges.
And it's literally a go to for

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me every Thursday when it comes
out, I'm probably one of the

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first people listening to.
It's called How Leaders Lead

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because it's helping me continue
to develop and enhance my

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leadership skills.
That's great, and I love that a

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massive component of being able
to learn something is being able

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to practice it and do it, and
that reinforces that learning.

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And I think leadership is one of
those things that's so easy to

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connect with when you're in the
position where you could learn

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something, not just because
everyone's a leader, but also

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because it's everyone's worked
with a team to some degree.

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So whether you're going from the
top down or the bottom up,

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there's always things you can
cover there.

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I've always been a fan of Simon
Sinek and his show and Adam

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Grant as well.
They tend to have a pretty good

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time together.
So they're they're great to

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listen to.
Thanks, Sid.

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Alex, did you want to jump in
with?

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Yeah, sure.
On Friday nights there is a show

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called Shark Tank, which a lot
of people watch.

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And right after it is another
show called 2020, which is kind

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of like an investigative
reporting type show.

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And they had a story years ago
on Elizabeth Holmes.

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And she was a woman that took
the world by storm with she's

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trying to revolutionize the
medical industry by taking one

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drop of blood and being able to
do all these tests.

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And they did a story on it.
And then they created a whole

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podcast that kind of expanded
upon it.

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It's called the Drop out.
And they did a movie and

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everything else.
But that podcast, it's no longer

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kind of the story's kind of done
because she is in jail.

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But it was, it was like
captivating to me.

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I just couldn't believe the the
length that this woman went to.

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I mean, she was in her 30s or
late 20s, early 30s, and she

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just had captivated this whole
industry and made billions of

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dollars and raising millions of
dollars.

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And it was just like the way
they structured it was so I just

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couldn't get enough of it.
And that's what really makes it

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so fascinating.
It was it just reminded me of

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great journalism.
And I think that's what that's

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what you know, when you talk
about leadership podcast and you

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talk about a lot of these
things.

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It's just great journalism and
and great drama.

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And I think that's what people
are looking for if they're

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looking for something for
educational.

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This American Life obviously is
a is always a big one and it

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00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,600
it's really about how you want
to where do you want to take

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your audience?
Do you want them up?

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Do you want them down, left,
right.

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And I think that they that that
particular podcast does a great

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job of, of that.
I don't want, you know, a lot of

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those type of podcasts to do
that as well.

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I.
Think that's storytelling coming

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up.
Trump's there for effective ways

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00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,080
to deliver information.
I was a bit worried, Alex, I was

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going to have to jump in there
at some point and ask you what

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you learned from this podcast,
but I'm glad you came in at the

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end.
You're supposed to learn

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something.
You're supposed to learn

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00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,120
something.
No, I, I.

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00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,640
Didn't you know?
Maybe not with with

302
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:01,160
thoroughness.
No, I'm.

303
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:02,200
Joking.
No.

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00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,040
But you know what, what's really
funny is you, you said in the

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beginning, you know, as
podcasters we look at, we listen

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to a podcast differently.
And I think, you know, I watch a

307
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lot of interviews 'cause I do
some interviewing and that's

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something that, and it's not
just podcasting, like learning

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00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,520
how to interview someone is a
hard thing.

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00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,920
And learning how to interview
some somebody under the gun

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00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,560
because people don't realize
that when you have a chance to

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00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,720
talk to like a celebrity, if
you're at a junket, you only

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00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:40,640
have 7-7 minutes with them.
So that's a different way.

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So I mean, I, I've learned a lot
from a lot of different people.

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00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,000
Yeah.
The practice component of things

316
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,120
is it just.
It can't be underestimated.

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00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,800
And even on, I think it was
Facebook or Reddit or something

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00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:58,280
yesterday, I saw someone do a
massive post about how you just

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00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,560
need to get going with your
podcast.

320
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,400
You just have to do it.
Stop thinking about it, stop

321
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,440
planning it, just do it.
And I think that is reinforced

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00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:12,360
with what you said there, Alex,
that the the idea of just taking

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00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:17,320
actions, starting to practice
and learning as you go is one of

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00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,560
the best ways both for
podcasting and for a lot of

325
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,280
things.
The out of the interview is

326
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,040
really interesting as well.
That's communicating effectively

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00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,480
with people in shorter and
shorter time frames.

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00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,560
That is something that literally
only comes with practice unless

329
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,880
you've had a previous life
before you came to your podcast

330
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,520
to be able to do that well.
But the learning of things is an

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00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,560
interesting question from this
context because you can't listen

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00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:47,720
to every interview show on the
planet that does a good job and

333
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,120
then start your podcast from day
one without having done an

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00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,360
interview yet.
You do have to have a couple

335
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:57,200
under your belt.
So asking people on stage at the

336
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,800
moment if anyone has a response
to this that is it better for us

337
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,760
to learn passively as listeners
from a podcast?

338
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:10,800
Or is there more benefit for us
in creating our own show to then

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00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,200
start actioning and practicing
things and engaging very

340
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,040
deliberately with the content?
To be able to create for someone

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00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,600
else.
Do we think that 1 is better

342
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,440
than the other Dr. I'm not sure
if you've got a legacy hand up

343
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,040
there, but I can see Nick's has
popped up I.

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00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,680
Saw Amanda and then I saw Dr.
and then Nick.

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00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,640
Sounds good to me, Amanda.
Well, I was going to add to the,

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00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,280
if you're interviewing someone
famous, oftentimes like those, I

347
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,920
want people to not like fret too
much if they only have 7 minutes

348
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,520
because usually those interviews
already have like questions

349
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,040
approved or whatever.
So there's there's already kind

350
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,760
of a pre pre planned
conversation that's going to go

351
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:50,800
on.
But as far as this new question,

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00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,800
I feel like no matter how much
you consume and how much you

353
00:20:55,800 --> 00:21:00,240
learn, which is so amazing from
listening, you don't know what

354
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,800
you don't know until you go to
do something.

355
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,200
So I think it's so important
that until you go to do it,

356
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,480
you're not sure what's missing,
what you need to learn more

357
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,280
about or learn period.
Like there are times that you

358
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,720
just thought you knew it all
until you actively go to do it

359
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,560
and you're like, I knew nothing.
Nothing prepares us sometimes to

360
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,280
do the act of actually doing.
Yeah, that's true.

361
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,040
Now, Nick, you want us to chime
in there?

362
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,520
And I believe this is from a new
abode from what I can see.

363
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,760
Almost.
Yeah, I'm, I'm driving to work

364
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,960
right now, but yeah, we're
closed on a house last week and

365
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,480
now we're getting everything
kind of cleaned up and set up

366
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,160
and going to be officially moved
into the new house on Monday.

367
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,000
So yeah.
That's amazing.

368
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:49,480
I'm jealous.
So what have you learned from

369
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,680
that experience, or how does
that contribute to the

370
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,280
podcasting stuff we're talking
about today?

371
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,680
Planning ahead is definitely
worth it.

372
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:02,520
We had all these plans to have
contractors in and clean up some

373
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,400
of the area, get some stuff
renovated before we got all

374
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,280
moved in.
And it was very much a plan

375
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,040
ahead kind of thing.
And I think that can definitely

376
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,640
help many podcasters down the
road.

377
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,080
So always be thinking 2 steps
ahead, yeah?

378
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,240
Absolutely.
I think the other thing you can

379
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,880
always learn from moving house
or move, buying a new house and

380
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,680
moving into it and getting it
ready, is that no matter how

381
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,360
many times you do it, it's just
as hard every single time.

382
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:35,120
I really don't think someone's
got that nailed yet. 100% and

383
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:40,280
the longer you wait to move, the
more junk you accumulate, yeah.

384
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,440
It's almost like there's some
life lessons in there.

385
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,320
Nick, what?
Why don't you, why don't you

386
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,480
float to the top of your brain a
couple of podcasts you've

387
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,920
listened to in the last few few
years that you've learned a lot

388
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,680
from and have really helped you.
I know you're in the IAI space

389
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,080
quite a lot.
And I think to my mind, AI

390
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,320
related podcasts that talk about
it is actually one of those

391
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,320
subjects that you quite
literally can't just listen to,

392
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,800
to learn from.
You have to take what these

393
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,400
people talk about on these shows
and put them into practice in

394
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,480
whatever LLM they're talking
about if they're specific about

395
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,120
it.
So which podcasts for AI maybe

396
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:22,760
have been effective for you and
have helped you learn the most?

397
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,640
The big AI podcast that I listen
to is AI for Humans, and I

398
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,880
wouldn't say necessarily that I
learn a ton from it.

399
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:38,720
It more keeps me up to date with
some of the new rises in

400
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,120
technology.
But as far as actually using the

401
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:45,640
tools, you're exactly right.
Like until you start putting

402
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:50,960
into practice the AI tools
themselves, you really don't

403
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,480
have a full grasp as to what
they can do.

404
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:56,520
But AI for humans, it's, it's an
entertaining show.

405
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,760
It's these two guys, they kind
of goof off playing with AI and

406
00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:01,920
kind of doing dorky things with
it.

407
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,600
It's a funny show.
It's a little bit educational,

408
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,680
but it's more like keeping
people in the know of what's

409
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,560
happening in AI.
Which brings me to the point.

410
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,200
The question you asked a little
bit ago was, do you think that

411
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,680
almost like should you learn
everything first or should you

412
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:23,520
dive in head first without doing
any kind of backup and start

413
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,720
podcasting just because you know
you're going to have to get in

414
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,640
those reps?
And I think a lot of it is a

415
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,440
combination.
I think it's good to have some

416
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,360
background.
I feel like some people will

417
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:37,920
say, no, I don't want any
influences from anyone else

418
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,920
because I want this to be mine
and I want it to be unique.

419
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,200
But I think there is definitely
something to learn from

420
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,440
listening to other shows and
seeing what other people are

421
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,520
doing.
But at the same time, like

422
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,840
Amanda said, at a certain point,
you need to just jump right in.

423
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,000
And I, I know we've used the
weight lifting analogy here

424
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,280
before, but I, I, it just holds
so true.

425
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,280
Like if you want to start
lifting weights, if you want to

426
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,760
lose weight, you're like, I'm
going to go to the gym and

427
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,880
you're going to go stand in
front of all of this equipment

428
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,760
that you've never used before
and expect to use it correctly,

429
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,640
not hurt yourself and be
effective with what you're

430
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,360
doing.
It's probably not going to go

431
00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:19,040
out too well.
You're probably going to want to

432
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:20,480
watch a couple of YouTube
videos.

433
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,200
What does the form look like?
Maybe you're going to get a

434
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:23,360
trainer.
Maybe you're going to get a

435
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:25,920
coach and they're going to kind
of help guide you in the right

436
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,200
direction until you're ready to
step into the gym on your own

437
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,440
and start doing it yourself.
And I think podcasting is very

438
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,600
similar.
You're going to want to watch

439
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,680
some videos.
You're going to want to pay

440
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,000
attention to what other people
are doing, how they're doing it,

441
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,400
maybe ask questions, go find
another podcaster and say, hey,

442
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,360
can you show me how to use this
machine?

443
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,240
Hey, can you show me how to use
that mic?

444
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,320
Or how do I set this mic up?
But at some point, you're not

445
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,120
going to see the growth, you're
not going to actually see the

446
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:57,720
results of it until you start
doing it.

447
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,440
And it's going to be hard at
first.

448
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,640
You're going to put in a lot of
tough reps The first couple

449
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,960
times you go, you're going to be
exhausted and you're like, I

450
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,520
can't believe I'm this tired
from lifting a 10 LB dumbbell.

451
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,280
But over time, that muscle is
going to build.

452
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:16,920
You're going to get stronger,
you're going to feel more

453
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,360
confident and you're going to
start crushing it and you're

454
00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:22,000
going to feel good about it.
You're going to feel good about

455
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,640
yourself.
And it's just without those

456
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,920
initial struggles in those
initial reps, you're going to be

457
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,160
right where you started, You're
not going to be any further

458
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,360
along.
So I think education is great,

459
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,240
but at a certain point you have
to start putting in the reps.

460
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,640
Yeah, I'm glad someone.
Else answered a beautiful

461
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,200
question.
No, no, it's all, it's all

462
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,680
incredibly spot on.
I think fitness, or at least

463
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,320
I've found CrossFit directly is
like a a metaphor for a lot of

464
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,320
things, particularly podcasting.
The one that I go to as an

465
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:59,600
example most often is Matt
Fraser, who was like a six or

466
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,520
seven times CrossFit champion
for a long time.

467
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:08,520
He kind of joined the CrossFit
Games in 2014 as a bit of a

468
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,320
lock.
Like he'd, he'd gone to the gym

469
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,360
and done stuff, as the story
goes, and he came second and

470
00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:17,760
then he had the tenacity to come
first every single time he

471
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,520
attended the Games after that.
But what people sometimes miss

472
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,360
about his story is that he was a
weightlifter from like 13 years

473
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:29,760
old, broke his back, went to
school for to study engineering.

474
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,200
Like there was such a huge
background for Matt Fraser that

475
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,680
people can sometimes miss when
they get the motivation to go to

476
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,600
the gym.
And it's the same for podcasting

477
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,680
too.
Chris Williamson that I look at

478
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,840
a lot from modern wisdom.
He'll often talk about how he

479
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,640
started six years ago and only
started getting his success a

480
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,920
couple of years prior.
And as you said, that's putting

481
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,960
in the reps It's not staring
down a 800 LB deadlift and just

482
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,080
lifting it like you have to work
your way there.

483
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,080
And, and I think fitness is a
really great corollary to those

484
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,400
things.
Alex saw your hand shoot up

485
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:04,720
there.
What would you like to say?

486
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:08,240
You know, it's funny because I
give you guys a lot of credit,

487
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,720
you know, the people that are
doing solo podcasts because I

488
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:15,920
started with a network and I had
a whole bunch of mentors, for

489
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,000
lack of a better term.
And even like picking out a mic.

490
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,040
They helped me with all this
stuff and putting my first

491
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,240
podcast together.
You know, I had somebody help me

492
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:26,640
with the music and all this
other stuff.

493
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,240
I, I don't know how I would have
done this by myself, not not

494
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,320
having that background because
it, like you said, you have to

495
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,000
put the reps in.
It's going to you're going to

496
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,000
have its ups and downs.
Like yesterday we had technical

497
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,480
issues where the music wasn't
working for a silly reason.

498
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,320
You know, these things always
happen and and it's not if

499
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,640
something happens, it, it's when
it happens and how you handle

500
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,400
it.
That's that's really the

501
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,240
important part.
I'd love to hear Dominic's take

502
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,400
on on our topic today.
Just because you know, you have

503
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,640
so many you, you know so many
different podcasts and you've

504
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,480
and you've seen the process with
so many different people, I'd

505
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,200
love to hear what you have to
say in terms of learning from

506
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,480
podcasts.
Come on, everybody.

507
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,440
Hope everybody is well.
I mean, honestly, as a narrative

508
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:25,560
podcaster, you're trying to draw
inspiration and boundaries and

509
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,800
foundations from all over the
place, honestly, from even just,

510
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,680
you know, TV and film.
But for me, podcast that I'm

511
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,360
usually listen to, obviously
there there a lot of narrative

512
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,760
ones I'm listening to like your
This American Life or New York

513
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,480
Times, The Daily, or I'm
listening to the wonder of

514
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,040
Stevie by higher ground, right?
You know, and one of the things

515
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,520
that always stand out is the
pacing for me, right?

516
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:03,040
You know, where to really get
bogged down in, you know, a

517
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,640
particular topic or area and
when to move on, if you will,

518
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,560
right.
So as a person who does

519
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:15,720
narrative and you write a script
with narration and other

520
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,040
people's, you know, audio and
stuff like that, you're trying

521
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:26,440
to determine, OK, does this
person get across what they need

522
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:32,360
to get across in 50 words?
Or can I reduce it to 35 just so

523
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,280
that we can move the story
forward even more?

524
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:41,480
And so even recently with Black
as America, I'm, you know,

525
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:48,200
restructuring a bit to where is
less of a bio thematic type of

526
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:54,000
show and more of a thematics
theme in the sense of, for

527
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,640
instance, when we did the
episode about Doug Williams, it

528
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,400
wasn't necessarily a
conversation.

529
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,640
I mean, there was a bio aspect
to Doug Williams's story,

530
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,560
obviously, because we want to
tell that story.

531
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,880
But but Doug Williams being a
black quarterback, it allows us

532
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,600
to expand that conversation
about black quarterbacks in

533
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,600
general in the NFL, as relates
to high school, College in the

534
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,960
NFL.
So those are some of the things

535
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:23,520
that I am seeing and doing as it
relates to what I'm learning

536
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,600
from other podcasts.
And also just another one,

537
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,760
there's a new show called our
ancestors are messy.

538
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:37,440
And so I think things like that
allow for cuz let's be honest,

539
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,120
when you hear of history, you
think of history class.

540
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:45,680
And, and that's not necessarily
a very, not always a very catchy

541
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,200
thing people want to jump into.
But when you can make history

542
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,920
engaging and invite that and,
and have that entry point, you

543
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,000
allow more people to the
conversation.

544
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,840
And so when you put in messy in
the in the in the title of a

545
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,040
show, it allows for a little bit
of salaciousness, salaciousness,

546
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,240
but also at the same time, it
allows for a fun entry point for

547
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,800
a subject matter that may be
people may not want to, you

548
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,240
know, would normally not want to
jump into.

549
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,640
So I guess that's my take on
that, I guess.

550
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,320
Sounds like the the class in
school you like to go to because

551
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,200
the teachers just a little bit,
not quite tuned up, but

552
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,480
absolutely, absolutely, Sid, do
you want to jump in?

553
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:35,840
In addition to listening to
learn about the topic, I'm also

554
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:41,520
because I'm a podcaster, I'm
also listening for good and bad

555
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:47,400
practices from other hosts about
things I want to incorporate

556
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,160
into my show or better yet,
things I want to avoid my show.

557
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,920
Like there's one podcaster that
I listen to that this person

558
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,880
doesn't respond to the guests
when they make a comment, which

559
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,880
I think is a is a missed
opportunity to have a dialogue,

560
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,680
right, because I have a dialogue
podcast.

561
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,000
It's but this person goes and
I'm like, what's the purpose of

562
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,160
that?
Right?

563
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,760
That's just like a, a sound that
I don't know, it just drives me

564
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,040
crazy.
But there's other things like

565
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,680
that, that I'm picking up that
like, Hey, don't do this.

566
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,840
Or when I catch myself doing it,
I'm like, dude, you did that.

567
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,360
You asked three questions.
Why did you question stack?

568
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:33,440
I try to learn about the topic
as well as learn best practices

569
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,640
and what not to do to make me a
better podcaster.

570
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,200
Here comes the obligatory jerk,
Sid, are you telling me that

571
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,360
questions are bad, and if you're
telling me questions are bad,

572
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,920
that they should be asked
differently and in a different

573
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,640
way?
And if so, why is that important

574
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,560
to you?
That is my point right there.

575
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,240
Like what do you do?
Which one do you answer?

576
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,280
Let's just go from FIFO or first
in first out.

577
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,360
Absolutely agree with this.
And it's that's probably a

578
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,840
really great pivot point to to
this point, the show where I

579
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,320
kind of tried to to push our our
minds outside the bounds of

580
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,320
podcasting for a bit.
But this is the podcasting

581
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,280
morning chat.
So maybe it's time for us to

582
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,520
share like Sid just did, some of
the key things that you look out

583
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,920
for as a podcaster to that you,
you learn from the shows that

584
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,560
you listen to and maybe share
them with us today as a, a new

585
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:25,960
thing for people to look out
for.

586
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,120
And I'm, I'm always very
cautious when I ask this kind of

587
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,719
thing.
It's kind of like when you drive

588
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,239
on the road and realize that the
Ford Focus exists and all of a

589
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,800
sudden everyone has a Ford Focus
in podcasting.

590
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,600
And Dr. would probably know this
too.

591
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:46,239
In podcasting, it's very easy to
critique a thing and then hear

592
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,199
more and more and more and more
things to critique about other

593
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:51,760
people's shows and then
yourself.

594
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,639
So there may be things mentioned
in the next 20 minutes that you

595
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:59,280
never knew you should have been
looking out for before, and then

596
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,520
you'll hear it everywhere.
But suffice to say that we

597
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,720
should always take a measure of
moderation with anything that we

598
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:09,160
want to look out for and change
and adapt for ourselves, knowing

599
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,240
that every show is different.
But then there are, you know,

600
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,800
general maxims like question
stacking is a really good one, I

601
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:21,200
think, and also the not
listening before the next

602
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,600
question kind of thing where the
conversation kind of stops when

603
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,280
the guest is done and they go,
all right, now here's my next

604
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,880
question.
You know, it doesn't quite flow

605
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,120
that well.
But anyway, here I am rambling

606
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,600
on with #1 the host rambles on a
little bit too long.

607
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,000
What would you guys say that are
on stage at the moment?

608
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,920
Maybe Dan, since your your
jockey in the DJ today, can you

609
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:45,880
share with us what you've
learned from podcasting that's

610
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,560
helped you improve your show?
I've been sitting here quietly

611
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,560
thinking on this question.
What have I learned?

612
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:58,000
You know, I've learned just to
be more intentional with my

613
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:03,560
conversations and listening with
intent has, you know, been a key

614
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:09,200
theme because I've done both
interview and solo podcasts.

615
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,600
So I've I think I've also
learned.

616
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,360
Most just fill with the flow
like.

617
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,040
I, I've told it before here, I
don't spend a lot of time

618
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,800
editing.
I don't get rid of any of the

619
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:28,120
Umm's and Ah's or, or you know,
the, the verbal pauses because I

620
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,560
go back and listen.
My intention there is to focus

621
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,040
on steady improvement.
So that's probably been one of

622
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,160
the biggest factors is how to
create content that blows

623
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:47,800
naturally, is enjoyable for me
to create and how can I improve

624
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,720
it?
Now this is the challenging bit

625
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,880
with us having learned from the
conversation earlier that

626
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,200
hearing about it is great, but
action and doing is the thing

627
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,200
that helps us learn best.
So Dan, what would you say

628
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,560
people should do to be more
intentional with their podcasts?

629
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,680
Perhaps interviewing experience
or what they do in post

630
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,680
production.
Well, so interviewing

631
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,440
experience, I would say if, if
that's something that they want

632
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:18,240
to do, do it and ask for
feedback after the interview

633
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:21,160
with your guest.
What do they think about how the

634
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,840
interview flowed?
What can you do to improve?

635
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,640
And then of course, implementing
that is the challenge, as you've

636
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,960
just said.
So, you know, working to to take

637
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,640
note of the top 1-2 or three
things that you can do based on

638
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,240
any feedback you've received or
even in listening which

639
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,840
transitions to the next point
when you listen back to it, what

640
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,680
are the top 1-2 or three things
that you can focus on next to

641
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,040
work on improvement?
Which like I said, ties into the

642
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,200
other piece of post production.
Go back and listen to your

643
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,480
episode.
You know, I don't know what the

644
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,160
numbers are, but there's a
significant number of people

645
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,640
that when they first start
hearing their voice recorded,

646
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,680
they don't like it.
So just get comfortable hearing

647
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:12,800
your voice is #1 go back and
listen and then look for those

648
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,560
things that you want to improve.
If you have verbal pauses more

649
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:21,520
so than you would like in your
content, instead of maybe you do

650
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,440
edit them out, whatever, that's
fine.

651
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,160
I don't if they're there, I'd
leave them there because I want

652
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,920
not just to see my own
improvement, I want to give an

653
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,720
opportunity for other people to
see that I didn't start with,

654
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,280
you know, perfect content and
shoot, it's not even close to

655
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,680
perfect now, but I didn't,
there's a journey that I'm on

656
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,600
and that's what I'm sharing with
people.

657
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,040
And I believe personally that
more people need to see that.

658
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,080
So go back, listen, note those
things down.

659
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,160
You know, one of the best tools
I've learned is to listen and

660
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,320
count how many times you made an
error or a verbal pause.

661
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,920
Next time that will be in your
subconscious mind.

662
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,400
It will be top of mind as well.
And instead of those verbal

663
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:10,920
pauses, take a moment to breathe
and think before you speak, and

664
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,880
then just cut silence out if you
need to.

665
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,760
I do find that there's a lot of
value in silence, but that

666
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,200
reflective practice is, is
unreal for everything.

667
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,280
Like I think that's a a great
maxim for life to just sit back

668
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,200
and think about what just
happened and write a few things

669
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,120
down, count some things and then
take that time to put it into

670
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,880
practice the next time.
Alex, I'm curious about you

671
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,720
because you break the production
rule and of working, not working

672
00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:41,560
with animals and children.
Is there anything that you any

673
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,200
podcasts you've learned from
specifically that you have taken

674
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:46,720
to heart yourself, your own
show?

675
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:52,040
And how would the the listener
type practice that for

676
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,480
themselves?
You know, one of the best things

677
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,440
that I've learned in terms of I
have a podcast partner and I

678
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:04,440
know Amanda can speak to this,
you know, and you know, is one

679
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,360
of the things that I.
I always try to break, which I

680
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:12,720
haven't done a great job of, but
you know, reflecting on the the

681
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:15,280
episode, you know, she'll listen
to it.

682
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,600
I have to listen to it because I
edit that.

683
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,920
That's a great way of of kind of
self learning.

684
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,760
That's the first thing I just go
on to you.

685
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,000
I don't specifically go on to
anyone podcast.

686
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:39,200
I go on a topic, whether it's my
show or you know what I say, my

687
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:44,080
show, people covering the same
thing that I'm covering versus,

688
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,360
you know, with, with my
daughter, this podcast,

689
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,640
actually, she's more of a pro
than I am because she went to

690
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:57,720
the University of YouTube and
she understands exactly how it's

691
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:03,000
supposed to be.
I think there's a lot of value

692
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:08,280
in looking at kids podcasts or
kids content because they're

693
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,320
geared towards keeping it
simple.

694
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:15,960
I think that's the one thing and
I don't have anyone podcast or

695
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,680
anything else because the
podcasts that I listen to aren't

696
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,600
really conventional.
I listen to a lot of sports

697
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,680
podcasts and they're all over
the place.

698
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,160
So that doesn't make it, you
know, they're they're not

699
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,960
winning any, they're not winning
any webbies or anything.

700
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:32,680
They're just trying to put out
content.

701
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:37,200
But I think that if you keep it
simple, look at some of those

702
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,920
kid podcasts and don't yes, the
contents important, but I think

703
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,400
the structure, I think that's
what I learned the most from all

704
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:50,520
of this because having severe
dyslexia and maybe a little ADHD

705
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,920
probably as well.
It's about the structure for me.

706
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:56,440
But I see Dominic wants to pop
in.

707
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,680
So one of the things that
especially in the narrative

708
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:06,880
space that try to get over to
new podcasters is when they

709
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,840
figure out that they can sound
design, they over sound design.

710
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,880
So like they try to recreate
entire scenes and not really

711
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,280
relying on what we like to call
the theater of the mind, right?

712
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,280
Like saying basically you just
need just enough for that

713
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,080
theater of the mind to activate
in the listeners psyche or in

714
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,760
the brain, if you will.
And so sometimes they want to

715
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,920
recreate the birds, they want to
recreate the plane, they want to

716
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,240
recreate the entire scene where
they don't really need to.

717
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:39,960
They need just enough to do
exactly what they need to do.

718
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:44,680
But also in addition to that,
that you can actually sound

719
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,120
design with no sound design with
descriptive language.

720
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,720
I think more some of the most
compelling audio I've ever heard

721
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:57,240
was from a gentleman who was
sharing his experiences AD day.

722
00:42:57,240 --> 00:43:01,040
He experiences AD day and
storming the beaches.

723
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:02,720
And he just used descriptive
language.

724
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,640
There was no music, there was no
sound design.

725
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,320
And basically like you get to
hear the pain.

726
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,440
You can hear the fear in his in
his, the crackling of his voice.

727
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,480
And like the my theater of the
mind was activated just from him

728
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,720
speaking.
No sound design, no, no Foley or

729
00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:21,480
anything.
So I think sometimes

730
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,640
understanding that, like being
descriptive and not overdoing it

731
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,240
can be very valuable.
Most definitely, it takes a very

732
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:36,720
well, well written and
articulated bit of speaking to

733
00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:38,760
be able to create those scenes
too.

734
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,440
Like there's so much I, I really
love hearing the stuff that you

735
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,440
talked about there, Dominic.
When I hear it in a podcast,

736
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,560
whether it's a narrative one or
whether it's someone sharing

737
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,240
their experience.
In fact, there's been a few

738
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:55,160
clients that I've edited for
that have shared very direct

739
00:43:55,160 --> 00:44:01,440
experiences of trauma as a as
related to natural disaster back

740
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,640
in Australia.
And as an editor, when you're

741
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:09,080
cutting together that show, you
can sometimes feel when that

742
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,760
moment's going to come.
And if it's just an interview,

743
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,040
you don't have the sound design
that's filtered in there.

744
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:20,480
You're picking up on facial
cues, if it's video, audio cues,

745
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,800
a difference in language, the
ability to fill what is

746
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,280
otherwise empty space with
something that the brain infers

747
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,640
instead.
That's incredibly powerful.

748
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,720
And I also say that being useful
as someone who has sound

749
00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:37,840
designed 20 seconds of an intro
and had that take a couple of

750
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,160
hours, which seems really
inordinately long.

751
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:45,480
But this is a great transition
to maybe Dr. if you can share

752
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,560
some of your experiences you've
had with clients, because I know

753
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,760
after somebody mentioned before
that people can over edit an

754
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:58,720
interview that they can be, they
want to chop all the pieces

755
00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:01,200
together to create the
conversation the way they want

756
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,240
to.
But it's too much.

757
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,480
It's way too much.
And I know you yourself, just

758
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,480
like me, would have sometimes
had clients that give way too

759
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,080
many feedback notes about the
things they want changed when

760
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,600
it's not their fingers doing the
changing.

761
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,360
So what kind of stories have you
got that you?

762
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:23,080
You know, I used to do, I used
to do a lot of theatre and

763
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:28,080
there's something in theater
when a director sits back and he

764
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,960
he gives you line readings on
exactly how you should say that

765
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:36,440
line.
And that is so freaking

766
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,240
frustrating for an actor on
stage.

767
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:44,560
And to draw the parallel to
podcasting, I sometimes have to

768
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:49,480
bite my tongue, like listen,
listen to that guest.

769
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,400
Why didn't you pick up on that?
Why didn't you ask?

770
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,640
Oh, there was such a perfect
opportunity.

771
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,840
And thank God that I listen on
the back end like it's already

772
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,360
happened, you know?
And sometimes I can edit things

773
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,120
out because sometimes it's
really, really frustrating.

774
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:11,800
And I try and put on my regular
listener ears as opposed to my

775
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,600
producer ears, but it is
frustrating.

776
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:21,960
And there are other times, I
mean, I edit a show that the

777
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:27,200
host is all over the place.
He asks the question about, you

778
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,560
know, the origins of where they
came from.

779
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:34,480
And then he switches to it's
just, it's like a jigsaw puzzle

780
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,600
and all the pieces are in the
box and all jumbled up.

781
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:44,120
And he leaves it up to me to put
the jigsaw puzzle together.

782
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,560
And sometimes I do.
I have to take a little piece

783
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,520
here on the beginning, a little
piece there at the end.

784
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,880
I shove them together because
they are more conducive.

785
00:46:55,160 --> 00:47:00,200
So yeah, just stay in your lane,
you know, just.

786
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:04,280
What's that point what you're
saying?

787
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,760
I have a question for you, Dr.
Do you, do you find, I mean,

788
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:15,440
could you get him to do an
outline or to try to clean that

789
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:20,280
up?
You know, I, I came in after he

790
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:25,120
was like on episode 28.
So he's been doing it one way

791
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,840
and I let it go #1 it's a good
challenge for me.

792
00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:32,000
And I'm always up for a
challenge.

793
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,960
So yeah, I.
Like challenges too, but that's

794
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,520
that's.
Yeah.

795
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,280
Listen, the the interesting
thing about the position that

796
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,920
Dr. and myself and potentially
Dominic is in as well is that

797
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,560
we're in a position where the
client is always right and we

798
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,400
can't point to the thing that
says this is what podcast is

799
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,120
make your podcast this like we
we can't really do that from our

800
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,320
perspective.
So it becomes really hard

801
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,800
sometimes when you see a lot of
glaring issues with what could

802
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,880
be an amazing podcast.
How you suggest that to to make

803
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,400
changes to the way that they've
been doing things for so long?

804
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:13,120
To kind of and sometimes
Matthew, it really depends upon

805
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:16,720
the the client.
I mean, if they come to you

806
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:20,560
saying, you know what, I so
appreciate your help.

807
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,760
I am, I'm clueless.
I don't know what to do.

808
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:29,200
And I just appreciate your
guidance that I know is someone

809
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:34,640
who's going to respect my
suggestions and take them.

810
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,120
Yeah, that is really a
partnership.

811
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:41,560
And and there are some that say
just, you know, and they say to

812
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,760
me, stay in your life.
So it's not like the words that

813
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,920
they say, but it's basically
saying stay in your life.

814
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,560
Just just edit.
Just edit.

815
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,240
I'm like, oh.
Now I understand both sides.

816
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:55,880
I mean, I've been on both sides.
You know when I mean, I haven't

817
00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:01,120
done it on your side, Matt and
Dr. but I can see both sides in

818
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:02,480
it.
What's that?

819
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,080
Feedback is hard.
Like even if you're a good

820
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,360
friend who's listened to your
friend's show and you're like,

821
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:12,680
oh, he doesn't put the dog in
the backroom, keeps staying

822
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,120
there, but how do I tell him
that he just needs to put his

823
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,160
dog in the next room?
Or maybe, oh, I have.

824
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:20,800
No problem saying that.
I'm going to jump in here for

825
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,720
just a hot second because I have
a different perspective on this.

826
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,880
Feedback is a gift.
If you are truly trying to

827
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,880
improve at your craft and to
grow, feedback is not just a

828
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,680
gift, it's a blessing.
Now, as the editor of the shows,

829
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:41,440
it's your challenge to figure
out how to provide that feedback

830
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,200
in a way that it doesn't come
across as criticism.

831
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,080
None of us want to be
criticized, right?

832
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,840
But feedback is a gift.
And you know, I think if you can

833
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,360
provide constructive feedback
about because we all want our

834
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,520
shows to be better.
We all want our shows to have

835
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,400
more listeners.
We all want our shows to get a

836
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,040
greater reach.
Approach it from that

837
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,960
perspective that hey, Mr.
Podcaster, I think I have some

838
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:11,000
ideas that might actually help
your show increase its reach.

839
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,920
Would it be OK with you that I
share these with you?

840
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,080
That's for permission.
And then share them in a

841
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:21,160
constructive, concise way that
will help them.

842
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:26,400
And DRI think that your comment
about the guy that you came in

843
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,680
at 28 and he's been doing it the
same way for a while is riddled

844
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,840
with judgment.
It's judgment that he can't

845
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:38,160
change, that he can't grow, that
he's not willing to grow, right.

846
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,120
And I think we have to release
those types of things in order

847
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,800
to help people.
It's just like being a boss or a

848
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,960
manager or a leader, right?
It's your job to help your

849
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,160
employees grow and develop and
become the best version of

850
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,000
themselves.
That's kind of what you do in

851
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,280
the seat that you're sitting in.
So as I'm out of breath,

852
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:58,600
feedback is a gift and a
blessing.

853
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,720
He said what I wanted to say,
but just so much better with a

854
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:11,760
southern accent.
No, no, I mean, well, A not New

855
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:16,360
Jersey Epson, but I will say
this to his point, to Sid's

856
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:20,280
point, because you're coming
into it and he's hiring you,

857
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,080
that may be that like he said,
the perfect Sid set is the

858
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,320
perfect time to say, hey,
listen, you've been doing it

859
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,280
this way, I've been editing it
this way.

860
00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:33,200
Maybe you want to consider XYZ,
whatever you know.

861
00:51:33,240 --> 00:51:35,120
And if he doesn't take it, he
doesn't take it.

862
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,840
I think the the biggest thing,
like, I mean, you're both

863
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:42,320
absolutely spot on and I think
Dr. would agree, but the podcast

864
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,440
editors Rd. is, is a lonely Rd.
sometimes.

865
00:51:45,720 --> 00:51:49,600
And I think we can sometimes err
on the side of venting before we

866
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:53,400
get to what we actually do.
As you know, solution providers

867
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,120
and service offers, which
invariably becomes what you said

868
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:01,400
there, Sid, like with any
person, someone comes on brand

869
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,280
new.
You need to kind of build that

870
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:08,520
relationship, see how they
receive feedback and Orient that

871
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,760
feedback in a way that ensures
that you can deliver what they

872
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:13,840
want.
And at the same time, they can

873
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,480
come to the table and take on
your advice.

874
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,200
And that's ultimately what the
advice is there for podcasting

875
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:24,680
professionals that are looking
that see all the things that

876
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,840
that we kind of leaned into for
the last 20 minutes there and

877
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,200
want to provide that value for
their client, but sometimes feel

878
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,080
they can't.
And I think that's it's probably

879
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,000
an entirely different podcast of
its own.

880
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:41,000
Maybe Dr. we have the the the
podcast editors vent off show

881
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,360
where we in end with all the
tips and.

882
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,240
That would be awesome.
And I think there's going to be

883
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:50,320
cigars and bourbon involved with
that, but it's going to be

884
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:51,520
Matthew.
Tones.

885
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,320
Well, good time it is.
We've actually managed to fill a

886
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:59,280
whole hour and the podcast is
still survived.

887
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,160
It has survived, it's lived.
We've come out learning to

888
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,240
learn, learning how to share
that learning with other people,

889
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:08,960
and then learning to learn how
to learn, sharing what other

890
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,800
people share to learn.
And all of you have made

891
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,080
fantastic contributions today.
Really do appreciate it.

892
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,520
And I know the community has to.
To all of you on stage and all

893
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,520
of you in the audience, thank
you for being present with us on

894
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,480
the Clubhouse session today.
If you're listening to this on

895
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:29,520
replay, just know that 7:00 AM,
it's some American time zone

896
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:30,920
that you can check in the show
notes.

897
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:35,440
You can join us on the clubhouse
every weekday, permitting that

898
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:37,680
there isn't a public holiday of
some description.

899
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,840
And we welcome all comers, bring
your opinions, bring your

900
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:43,720
thoughts.
We'd love for you to be able to

901
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:48,000
share it on the show as well.
So we'll be back tomorrow with

902
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:49,720
potentially the news.
I'm not sure.

903
00:53:49,720 --> 00:53:52,280
I'll have to check the schedule.
How's that for a tease?

904
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:56,320
Anyway, thank you all for coming
podcasting morning chat out.

905
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:57,440
We'll see you next time.