543. How Effective Is Your Podcast Cover Art?

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Marc Ronick: Good morning,

podcasters.

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Today is Thursday, june 25 2026
And today, podcast
cover art,

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first impressions, and listener
psychology.

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Before
anyone hears your
voice, they see your show.

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We're digging
into real-world
cover art questions to find out

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what
actually helps people
choose your podcast.

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So, if you're
listening live
on Clubhouse, hit the share

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00:00:29,021 --> 00:00:31,959
button, top right-hand
side of
the screen, and share it however

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Clubhouse lets you.
And
if you're catching us via

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00:00:34,335 --> 00:00:37,395
podcast, YouTube, etc. please

share this episode with a fellow

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podcaster.
And now, give us
about 30

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seconds, and we'll get things
rolling.

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Thanks for being
here.
The podcasting morning show is

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powered by Ironick
Media,
helping podcasters launch,

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polish, and grow great
shows,
and by Content creators,

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accountant, helping creators

build real business behind their

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content.
Good morning again,
Podcasting

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Morning Show.
Thank you so much for being

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here.
I am
your host, Marc Ronick,

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and currently on stage with me
we
have my co-hosts DR. Fay,

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Ralph Estep, Sid Meadows, BC
Babbles,
and also Dan Schultz

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has joined us from the audience.
Good
morning to all of you.

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And by the way, if you want to
learn
more about my co-hosts,

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just go to Podcasting Morning

show.com/people I haven't said

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that in a long time, so I

thought it was important to

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remind you.
You can learn all
about all

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the cast and crew by just going
to that link, and
yeah, enjoy.

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So, with that, today we're gonna
get into cover
art, but before

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we do, I want to share something
with you.

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I got
a little gift in the
mail, so if you aren't watching

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us on video,
you can go to
Podcasting Morning show.com/join

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us and find the
different ways
to do that.

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Just choose between YouTube and
LinkedIn, that's the easiest,

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and this comes from here, this

box of mine here, I got to show

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it this way because I didn't

block out the address here, but

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this comes from our old friend

of the community, Chuck Taylor.

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Now, if you listened to episode
500 you met Chuck Taylor, if

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you haven't, didn't know him
prior,
but he was one of the

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OGs of the formerly known as
Podcasting
Morning Chat, and a

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good friend as well, and a great
contributor
to the community.

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So, Chuck is into 3D printing,
which I know
if I got one of

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those, I'd probably get pretty
hooked
pretty quickly, and I

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just don't feel like investing
the money
into it right now,

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but Chuck has, and he plays with
it in all
sorts of ways, and

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said that he was making
something for us, and
he

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actually had told me about this
prior to episode 500 prior
to

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our name change, and I know this
has something to do with
our

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podcast name, so Ralph Estep
Jr.: for you that
aren't

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watching it, you got to picture
this.

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Marc has a big
box, a pair of
red scissors, and I'm just

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hoping he's not going
to cut
himself, you know.

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It's kind of like that running
with
scissors thing here.

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So I'm just giving you a little
bit of
visual, so you think if

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you're on the audio, Marc
Ronick: thank you.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: But the

anticipation is palpable.

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It's amazing.
Marc Ronick: I'm sure you are


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waiting on the edge of your
seat, and you try to open a box

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quickly on a live show, and it
doesn't always go so well.

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As,
as you can hear, all
right?

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Let me get these red scissors
again.


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Come Sid Meadows: on, yeah, I'm
watching on the video, and he's

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either gonna cut his earbuds

cord.

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Marc Ronick: I was worried about

that, Sid.

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I was worried about that.
All right, so we've got
some

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bubble wrap here.
It's kind of light.

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Let's see.
Okay,
it's.. it's substantial.

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It's a square.
Oh, I know exactly what
this

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is.
So cool.

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All right, Ralph Estep Jr.: the
smile on
Marc's face is

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amazing.
Marc Ronick: All right, it is a

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podcasting morning chat light
up sign now.

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Granted, we've changed
our
name to show, and that doesn't

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matter.
This is legacy
right here.

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This is, yeah, coming from
legacy and a legacy
item here.

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I will take this.
I got a.. oh, I could plug it

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into
something right here at
my desk.

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DR: So, Marc Ronick: let me see
if this
works.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: Electronics in
a live environment, this is

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very dangerous, friends.
Marc Ronick: It is, and I don't

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Ralph Estep Jr.: know what's

going to happen.

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Marc Ronick: I asked Chuck to

join us, he couldn't do it.

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All right, this is plugged in.
He
couldn't do it today, you

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know.
He is a radio person, DR:

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Taylor.
You know, a hell of
a pair of

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sneakers, too.
I mean, he, his sneakers are

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fantastic,
right?
Marc Ronick: Yes, yes, all.


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Right here it is lit up, and
everything.

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I don't know if you
can really
tell how DR: can't wait because

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of the
lighting.
Yeah, lighting, Marc Ronick: but

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it is here.
If
I turn it DR: off, awesome.

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Marc Ronick: The on off button

doesn't seem to go off.

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DR: Oh, it kind of blinked.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, there you go.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: It's, it's

doing something, Mark.

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DR: Oh, Ralph Estep Jr.: very
nice.

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DR: There you go.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, very nice.


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Love this.
Thank you to Chuck Taylor.

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This is so cool.
This
actually could even just

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go right on my desk.
It's, you
know, it's about a

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little bigger than my own hand,
so this could
go right on my

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desk.
And I think that is exactly

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where it will
go.
We will see.

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I'll play with this, but thank
you to Chuck
Taylor.

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That is awesome.
Looks very cool, and yeah, let's

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keep..
DR: I'd love to know some of the

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other things that he has made
with this printer that has..


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that's like really out of the
norm, you know.

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Marc Ronick: Let me.. he Sid
Meadows: made a slinky the


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other day, did he?
DR: A slinky Sid Meadows: slinky

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is..
Marc Ronick: oh, sorry, hold on

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a second, hold on a second,
hold on, hold on, hold on,

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everybody,
hold on.
I was trying to pull up his

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TikTok, and it, and of
course,
the first video that popped up

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started playing, so my

apologies.

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Go ahead, Sid.
Sid Meadows: Yeah, no, he had a

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Slinky.
He had what was sitting on a

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desk, it was a yellow, it

looked like a cup.

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Honestly, I thought it was a
water cup.

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And
then the next image showed
it a Slinky, and his comment was

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something about I love making
childhood toys with 3D printing,

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it was really cool, Marc
Ronick: yeah, cool.

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Thank
you to Chuck Taylor, and
yeah, you can just search for

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Chuck
Taylor on TikTok, and
you know what, I'll put

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something in the
show notes,
so you can follow him and see

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all of the different
things
that he's doing with his

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printer.
Well, and now speaking
of Sid,

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Sid, yesterday you shared
something with us about
you

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were going to change, change
your titles on specific


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episodes.
I'd love for you to kind of

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reset that conversation
for
us, so if somebody missed

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yesterday, they're in the know,
and then share some of the

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early results that you've seen
from
that change.

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Please, Sid Meadows: yes.
So, good
morning everybody.

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So, I at the beginning of this
year did a lot
of keyword

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research and changed my
keywords, and we started


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strategically doing things all
in the hopes to help create


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discovery.
Well, then we talked about how

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Apple and Spotify do
searches.
Every time I go search, I get

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pissed off because
I wasn't
showing up, and I'd like, I've

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done all this work,
and I'm
not showing up.

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So yesterday morning, early, I
was
listening to Courtney

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Elmer's show, The Top 100
Secrets, or
Top Secrets of 100

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whatever it's called, right?
Sorry, I'm
butchering your

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name, Courtney, the name of your
show, The
Secrets of a Top 100

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podcast, there you go, and I
love
listening to her show,

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and she talked about changing
the title
of your show and

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adding keywords in the title of
your show, not
episodes.

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So yesterday I went in and
changed the title of my
show,

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The Trend Report Dash Insights
on Office Furniture,
Contract

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interiors and workplace design,
and those are three of
my top

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keywords.
Prior to that, I basically was

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not showing up
anywhere, and
if I did, I'd have maybe one

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episode that would be
way down
the list in the top results, but

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on the shows I was
not showing
up anywhere, and I'm not sure

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why this morning, early
this
morning, I'm listening to

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Courtney again, and I decided to

just open up Apple and search,

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and I put in office furniture,

and I'm number four with that

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keyword.
Marc Ronick: Wow, Sid Meadows: I

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put in workplace
design, I'm
number four with that keyword,

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and then I put in
contract
interiors, and I'm number one,

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and yesterday I
wasn't showing
up at all.

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So, Marc Ronick: wow, the Sid
Meadows: messaging here,
yeah,

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the messaging here is adding a
tagline to the title of
your

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show is definitely going to help
improve your discovery when


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people are searching for your
keywords inside of the players,

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so that led me to a full 3045
minute deep dive on my keywords,

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and searching every one of
them.

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I made a spreadsheet that

searched every one of them on

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Apple, and then every one of

them on Spotify, and now I have

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identified which are my really

weak keywords, which are the

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median keywords, and which are

the strong ones.

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So I know what I need to do
differently.

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I
think I'm getting some ideas
about what I need to do


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differently as we continue to
enhance this.

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What's really
interesting
about this is every keyword I

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put in I showed up on
Spotify
in every keyword except one on

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Apple.
I'm missing on I
have 12

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keywords, or 13 keywords I'm
missing on 1234567, I'm


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missing on seven keywords on
Apple, but I'm showing up on


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Spotify on all of them, but two.
Sorry, spreadsheet wasn't big


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enough.
So that's pretty good results.

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Yeah, in just a day,
and now
I'm feeling okay.

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Now I understand some of these
things.


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We talked about this on the show
before.

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00:10:09,004 --> 00:10:12,150
We've talked about
changing
your titles, you know.

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And I've done all of this, not

what one of the things I'm doing

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00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,868
with my titles is I'm changing

them all to questions.

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00:10:18,868 --> 00:10:22,311
We're testing that for the month
of
July and August, and that

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00:10:22,311 --> 00:10:24,978
was something we talked about a
couple of weeks ago here, so

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all of my titles will be
questions
in July and August,

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00:10:27,470 --> 00:10:31,333
and I'm going to see if it has
any
impact in the listens,

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plays, downloads.
So this is a an ever
evolving

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00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,274
process, that's for sure.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and really


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00:10:39,282 --> 00:10:43,010
impressive, and I mean I'll just
say surprising, like within a


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day to see that kind of jump is
really surprising, and I don't


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00:10:47,193 --> 00:10:50,080
know, I don't want..
I guess one thing I should say

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is don't
necessarily expect
that to happen to you when you

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make that
change, and if
you're going to make that

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00:10:55,110 --> 00:10:57,490
change, really be
strategic
about it, right?

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00:10:57,730 --> 00:10:59,350
That's really important.
Yeah,
did you want to say

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00:10:59,350 --> 00:11:03,112
something with just the tagline?
I'm have
always been a big

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00:11:03,112 --> 00:11:07,312
proponent of the tagline with
keywords, maybe
to tell you

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00:11:07,312 --> 00:11:11,015
who it's for.
Yeah, I mean, it's that tagline

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00:11:11,015 --> 00:11:13,819
is, is
like everything, it's a
piece of gold.

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Yeah, and you know, now
that I
think about it, and I, I'm

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00:11:17,742 --> 00:11:21,270
little embarrassed to say
it,
because I did that too, not too

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00:11:21,270 --> 00:11:25,520
long ago, maybe a month or
two
ago, maybe closer to two months

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00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:31,370
ago, I added a tagline to
our
show title, and now that I'm

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00:11:31,490 --> 00:11:34,400
thinking about it, I need to

figure out when I did that, and

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00:11:34,430 --> 00:11:38,270
then I need to pay attention to
my numbers, because my numbers

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00:11:38,690 --> 00:11:41,082
has has been growing.
I think
I've shared from time

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00:11:41,082 --> 00:11:44,157
to time that our numbers have
been
growing, and I wonder if

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00:11:44,157 --> 00:11:46,990
there's a correlation there.
So, I'm
gonna, I'm gonna dig

213
00:11:46,990 --> 00:11:49,192
into that a little more, and
I'll report
back.

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00:11:49,192 --> 00:11:52,012
Thank you for sharing that, Sid.
And one more thing,
before we

215
00:11:52,012 --> 00:11:56,340
dive into cover art this
morning, Sid, you sent me a


216
00:11:56,348 --> 00:12:00,658
screenshot the other day while
you were listening to an Apple


217
00:12:00,666 --> 00:12:04,385
to a podcast on Apple, and I was
curious, would you share what


218
00:12:04,393 --> 00:12:06,681
you found too?
Because we think we might have

219
00:12:06,681 --> 00:12:10,290
discovered a new
feature with
the new podcast player by Apple.

220
00:12:11,070 --> 00:12:15,930
Sid Meadows: Yeah, I was

listening to Buzz Cast, and I

221
00:12:16,110 --> 00:12:18,870
typically, when I'm listening, I

have my phone in my pocket, or

222
00:12:18,900 --> 00:12:19,960
it's laying around somewhere,

right?

223
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,910
I'm not looking at the screen,
and having to look at
the

224
00:12:23,910 --> 00:12:27,030
screen, and because I wanted to
see if they were doing video,


225
00:12:27,038 --> 00:12:30,315
and this was a bit of an older
episode, and so they had not


226
00:12:30,323 --> 00:12:33,632
started their video yet, because
I'm just interested in learning

227
00:12:33,632 --> 00:12:38,185
about the video thing, and I
noticed on the screen there was

228
00:12:38,185 --> 00:12:41,754
they were talking about, I
forget, like ABC Podcast,


229
00:12:41,762 --> 00:12:45,395
because in this episode they
were talking about a lot of


230
00:12:45,403 --> 00:12:48,538
podcasts, and they were talking
about ABC Podcast, and I noticed

231
00:12:48,538 --> 00:12:52,270

on the screen right below
their cover art was Apple had

232
00:12:52,270 --> 00:12:57,912
put a
link to that show with a
plus button, so that I could

233
00:12:57,912 --> 00:13:01,899
follow
that show, and then if
you went into Buzzcast, excuse

234
00:13:01,899 --> 00:13:06,990
me, if you
went into the
actual episode and you looked at

235
00:13:06,990 --> 00:13:11,679
the episode,
there's a thing
there that says featured in this

236
00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,314
show, and there
were all of
the podcasts that they talked

237
00:13:15,314 --> 00:13:18,357
about were listed
right there.
Yeah, and I don't know whether

238
00:13:18,357 --> 00:13:20,815
they did it or if
Apple's
doing it, but I was really

239
00:13:20,815 --> 00:13:23,180
surprised to see it on
the
screen, where I could very

240
00:13:23,510 --> 00:13:26,947
easily click follow, right?
And
so I'm interested to know,

241
00:13:26,947 --> 00:13:29,870
like, is that Apple thing?
Did
Buzzsprout do something

242
00:13:30,020 --> 00:13:32,066
different?
Did they create that
feature

243
00:13:32,066 --> 00:13:36,302
on there that said, you know,
you know, featured in the
show

244
00:13:36,302 --> 00:13:39,584
with all the podcast episodes?
So, but I was like,
wow, this

245
00:13:39,584 --> 00:13:40,930
is actually a really cool
feature.

246
00:13:41,530 --> 00:13:43,630
Marc Ronick: I mean, I would

have to say, without really

247
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:46,240
knowing yet what, where this

comes from, and I'd have to say

248
00:13:46,420 --> 00:13:50,950
it's probably a combination of

both, because Buzzsprout has to

249
00:13:50,980 --> 00:13:55,450
be able to provide the ability

to take advantage of a feature

250
00:13:55,660 --> 00:13:59,538
that Apple offers, right?
So, I
think that it could be

251
00:13:59,538 --> 00:14:02,276
something that Apple started
offering, and
Buzzsprout has

252
00:14:02,276 --> 00:14:04,830
incorporated into their
platform, so that podcasts
can

253
00:14:04,830 --> 00:14:07,785
do that sort of thing.
It's really cool, and it's a

254
00:14:07,785 --> 00:14:10,314
really
smart thing.
So, that in a nutshell, while

255
00:14:10,314 --> 00:14:14,804
Sid's listening
to a podcast,
other podcasts are being

256
00:14:14,804 --> 00:14:18,510
recommended, recommended
to
him within the player itself.

257
00:14:18,630 --> 00:14:21,710
It's just popping up right

there, small, it's like a small

258
00:14:21,770 --> 00:14:23,819
little banner, Sid Meadows:
yeah.

259
00:14:23,819 --> 00:14:26,651
And I'm
actually, I'm gonna go
ask them, because they have a

260
00:14:26,651 --> 00:14:29,216
feature,
Buzzcast has a
feature where I can send them a

261
00:14:29,216 --> 00:14:31,290
message, so I'm
gonna go send
them a message and ask them

262
00:14:31,290 --> 00:14:33,225
about a perfect idea.

How do they do it?

263
00:14:33,225 --> 00:14:35,798
Because whenever I mention
somebody
else's podcast or an

264
00:14:35,798 --> 00:14:38,975
episode, we always drop the
links in it,
yeah, you know,

265
00:14:38,975 --> 00:14:43,979
down at the bottom of the show
notes, but
featured in this

266
00:14:43,979 --> 00:14:47,833
episode makes me wonder, is that
something
that we should be

267
00:14:47,833 --> 00:14:50,977
taking advantage of, that would
then
not just promote other

268
00:14:50,977 --> 00:14:54,286
people's shows, but promote
other
episodes that I talk

269
00:14:54,286 --> 00:14:57,744
about from my show, right?
So I don't know,
I'm gonna do

270
00:14:57,744 --> 00:15:00,142
a little bit of homework and see
what they have
to.

271
00:15:00,142 --> 00:15:02,940
Say, but you know this is a very
interesting opportunity.

272
00:15:03,390 --> 00:15:06,960
Marc Ronick: Absolutely, thank

you for sharing that, Sid and

273
00:15:07,050 --> 00:15:08,555
Ralph.
You had one more thing
before

274
00:15:08,555 --> 00:15:10,080
we dive into cover art this
morning.

275
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,260
Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, I just

wanted to do a shout out to

276
00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:16,140
Losh, the person I mentioned

yesterday in the business bite.

277
00:15:16,170 --> 00:15:18,780
She reached out to me on

LinkedIn, and we're actually

278
00:15:18,810 --> 00:15:21,332
going to have her on the show on

july 14.

279
00:15:21,332 --> 00:15:23,656
She's a strategist for
do-it-yourself independent


280
00:15:23,664 --> 00:15:27,452
podcasters, and I thought she'd
be a great connection, but she


281
00:15:27,460 --> 00:15:29,966
really appreciated us talking
about her article from Pod News

282
00:15:29,966 --> 00:15:32,619
on the show, and I just wanted
to let everybody know that she


283
00:15:32,627 --> 00:15:35,720
is now a fan of the show.
Marc Ronick: That's awesome,


284
00:15:35,728 --> 00:15:39,712
very cool.
I love how we are.. what's..

285
00:15:39,712 --> 00:15:41,616
how..
I guess this web
is continuing

286
00:15:41,616 --> 00:15:45,430
to grow, and we are getting in
touch with lots
of different

287
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:48,859
podcasters and podcast pros, and
it's adding a
lot to this

288
00:15:48,859 --> 00:15:50,779
show.
And Ralph, you've been a big

289
00:15:50,779 --> 00:15:53,820
part of adding
that value, so
thank you for finding, or not

290
00:15:53,820 --> 00:15:56,302
necessarily
finding the
guests, but connecting with

291
00:15:56,302 --> 00:15:58,150
these guests and
bringing them
to the show.

292
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,465
Appreciate you.
Ralph Estep Jr.: You are very


293
00:16:00,473 --> 00:16:02,420
welcome, my friend.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, so let's,


294
00:16:02,428 --> 00:16:04,309
let's see.
I saw one more, Alex had

295
00:16:04,309 --> 00:16:05,700
something, and then we will

dive in.

296
00:16:06,210 --> 00:16:07,950
Alex: Yeah, I just found it

interesting what would Sid was

297
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,752
talking about.
It's almost like
it's almost

298
00:16:10,752 --> 00:16:14,650
like the chapters in a way.
Yes, YouTube, and I think
it's

299
00:16:14,650 --> 00:16:16,490
a brilliant idea.
It's just it.

300
00:16:16,490 --> 00:16:18,360
I was just listening to it.

I'm like, yeah, you could

301
00:16:18,420 --> 00:16:21,830
really, a lot of podcasters

could benefit from it, that's

302
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,233
all.
It just, yeah, just popped
my

303
00:16:23,233 --> 00:16:24,920
head.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, absolutely.


304
00:16:24,928 --> 00:16:28,025
Thank you, Alex.
Okay, I'll hit the whoosh again.

305
00:16:28,025 --> 00:16:31,265
There it is.
A
lot of podcasters think

306
00:16:31,265 --> 00:16:35,942
about artwork or cover art,
thumbnail
images, usually

307
00:16:35,942 --> 00:16:39,585
once, and that's usually when
they launch, right?


308
00:16:39,593 --> 00:16:43,756
They make the square cover
image, upload it to their host,

309
00:16:43,756 --> 00:16:47,911
and then they move on.
But now these visual decisions

310
00:16:47,911 --> 00:16:52,842
keep
coming up, like, do you
need custom artwork for every


311
00:16:52,850 --> 00:16:55,195
episode?
Should your YouTube thumbnails

312
00:16:55,195 --> 00:16:59,482
match your podcast
branding?
Should Spotify video episodes

313
00:16:59,482 --> 00:17:02,832
have different
thumbnails?
Right, because now that they

314
00:17:02,832 --> 00:17:04,973
have video, that's
something
to think about.

315
00:17:04,973 --> 00:17:07,397
Should you have your face in the
cover
image?

316
00:17:07,397 --> 00:17:11,211
I know how there are some people
that feel strongly in
both

317
00:17:11,211 --> 00:17:13,950
directions.
There should your guest be on

318
00:17:13,950 --> 00:17:17,859
the episode
cover image?
How much text is too much?

319
00:17:17,859 --> 00:17:21,710
There are lots of
questions,
and for indie podcasters, the

320
00:17:21,710 --> 00:17:24,890
real question is
usually
what's actually worth doing.

321
00:17:24,890 --> 00:17:29,555
Today, we're going to
work
through a few questions from

322
00:17:29,555 --> 00:17:33,781
Reddit tube creators, and
even
one of my clients that came up

323
00:17:33,781 --> 00:17:37,510
just this week, and I want to

hear what the room thinks.

324
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:41,476
So, first I was wondering, do
you
guys think it would be

325
00:17:41,476 --> 00:17:45,326
valuable to share some of the
basics,
like for example, like

326
00:17:45,326 --> 00:17:50,256
what the specs are for cover art
and some
best practices, or

327
00:17:50,256 --> 00:17:52,642
should we just dive into the
mailbag?

328
00:17:52,642 --> 00:17:54,700
I'm
looking for a community
decision here.

329
00:17:54,700 --> 00:17:57,652
BC, what do you got?
BC Babbles: I think still be


330
00:17:57,660 --> 00:17:59,772
really helpful, especially when
you consider the fact that,


331
00:17:59,780 --> 00:18:03,870
depending on where you put your
podcast, you might have to have

332
00:18:03,870 --> 00:18:09,206
more than one aspect ratio for
artwork ready to publish it out

333
00:18:09,206 --> 00:18:11,712
properly.
Marc Ronick: Fair enough.

334
00:18:11,712 --> 00:18:14,458
Yeah,
okay.
Then I will just share a couple

335
00:18:14,458 --> 00:18:15,606
of things.
Who else?


336
00:18:15,614 --> 00:18:18,015
Somebody else?
Alex: Yeah, I think I think


337
00:18:18,023 --> 00:18:21,985
having the basics is important,
but I really think it's more


338
00:18:21,993 --> 00:18:27,286
important what kind of genre
your podcast is, because what I

339
00:18:27,286 --> 00:18:33,292
do versus what you know Ralph
is going to do could be two

340
00:18:33,292 --> 00:18:37,306
totally
different things, and
I say that because when you're

341
00:18:37,306 --> 00:18:42,155
reviewing
shows or a movie,
it's about that more than it is,

342
00:18:42,155 --> 00:18:45,679
maybe the
person, it just
depends on the situation, but I

343
00:18:45,679 --> 00:18:49,942
think genre has
a lot to do.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, it can, yeah,

344
00:18:49,942 --> 00:18:52,572

especially for the episode
cover images or thumbnails, I

345
00:18:52,572 --> 00:18:56,372
could
see that, and I think
that there are some basic rules

346
00:18:56,372 --> 00:19:00,214
of thumb
that we can all
follow, no matter what the genre

347
00:19:00,214 --> 00:19:02,844
is, and
especially when we
talk about the specs, right?

348
00:19:02,844 --> 00:19:06,480
Like, for
example, I think the
best rule of thumb, if you are

349
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,876
an audio,
or if you're
uploading your audio podcast to

350
00:19:09,876 --> 00:19:13,656
be distributed
to Apple,
Spotify, etc. the specs are

351
00:19:13,656 --> 00:19:16,436
pretty much the same
across
the board, right?

352
00:19:16,436 --> 00:19:22,868
3000 by 3000 pixels a square,
one by
one, that's that's the

353
00:19:22,868 --> 00:19:27,220
size that you want, right?
The safe range
you can go is

354
00:19:27,220 --> 00:19:33,162
as low as 1400 by 1400 but I say
just go as high
res, high,

355
00:19:33,162 --> 00:19:38,358
yeah, high res as possible, and
I just go with
that, 3000 by

356
00:19:38,358 --> 00:19:42,705
3000 but you know, Spotify
thumbnail images, that
that's

357
00:19:42,705 --> 00:19:48,940
like a 1920 by 1080 right?
That's now the horizontal
16

358
00:19:48,940 --> 00:19:53,281
by nine size.
And then YouTube has minimum

359
00:19:53,281 --> 00:19:59,805
1280 by 720
and they actually
recommend bigger, 3840 by 21 60,

360
00:19:59,805 --> 00:20:02,706
right.
So
these are all things in

361
00:20:02,706 --> 00:20:05,322
YouTube.
Also, if you are connecting your

362
00:20:05,322 --> 00:20:09,906

RSS feed to it, it's just
going to pull your cover image

363
00:20:09,906 --> 00:20:13,080
from
your provider over to
YouTube.

364
00:20:13,410 --> 00:20:15,990
Before I go any further, Dan, I
saw you had raised your hand.

365
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:19,644
Did you want to add anything?
Dan: Oh, just maybe you can talk

366
00:20:19,644 --> 00:20:22,814

about doing tests, like I
usually test my cover art every

367
00:20:22,814 --> 00:20:25,037
three months, Marc Ronick:
yeah.

368
00:20:25,037 --> 00:20:28,017
And is that
specifically your
episode cover art?

369
00:20:28,017 --> 00:20:29,900
Because we all have to be,
I
think, really clear when we're

370
00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:31,640
talking about this, because

there are these are two

371
00:20:31,730 --> 00:20:33,761
different areas.
So, is that
your episode cover

372
00:20:33,761 --> 00:20:36,350
art that you test every few
months, or your
series?

373
00:20:37,340 --> 00:20:41,380
Dan: The episode cover art is, I

change every season, and it's

374
00:20:41,410 --> 00:20:44,020
going to be the exact same,

because in our, again,

375
00:20:44,170 --> 00:20:47,130
everything depends, because it's

a podcast question, but

376
00:20:47,130 --> 00:20:50,848
because our podcast happens to
be where
we read one band book

377
00:20:50,848 --> 00:20:54,602
every season, that is the
episode
cover art, is a custom

378
00:20:54,602 --> 00:20:58,276
version of that book cover, but
for I'm
talking about the

379
00:20:58,276 --> 00:21:01,422
general show, which is going to
help you get
more listeners,

380
00:21:01,422 --> 00:21:04,148
because it's the discoverability
part of the
equation.

381
00:21:04,148 --> 00:21:07,962
I usually try to change that
once every three
months, and

382
00:21:07,962 --> 00:21:10,884
then gage, well, what happened
after I changed
it, what

383
00:21:10,884 --> 00:21:12,450
happened in the next three
months.

384
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:14,385
Marc Ronick: Yeah, thank you,

Dan, that's really helpful.

385
00:21:14,385 --> 00:21:17,100
And there is a question here
from
the mail bag.

386
00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:21,530
Well, I pulled this from Reddit,
the basic, the
gist of it says

387
00:21:21,530 --> 00:21:25,525
just curious if people keep all
their thumbnail
art the same

388
00:21:25,525 --> 00:21:30,132
or if there is an advantage to
changing it, and so
Dan, is

389
00:21:30,132 --> 00:21:32,080
there an advantage to changing
it?

390
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,370
Have you seen an
advantage for
yourself for your show?

391
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,220
Dan: Yeah, and it's really neat.



392
00:21:37,228 --> 00:21:41,816
It's ultimately what is going to
get people to, you know, click


393
00:21:41,824 --> 00:21:44,830
play, right?
So the first version of our

394
00:21:44,830 --> 00:21:47,602
cover art, I
thought was
awesome, and it kind of worked.

395
00:21:47,602 --> 00:21:50,184
I didn't know what I
didn't
know until I tested it, like a

396
00:21:50,184 --> 00:21:52,651
year later, and I was
like,
"Oh my god, if I would just

397
00:21:52,651 --> 00:21:55,776
change this, all of a
sudden
it jumped up 20% and I'm like,

398
00:21:55,776 --> 00:21:58,735
"Holy cow.
So now I just
try to do it

399
00:21:58,735 --> 00:22:02,530
every three months, I try to
make a change, one
change, and

400
00:22:02,530 --> 00:22:05,928
I just like, you can literally
change your show
overnight.

401
00:22:05,928 --> 00:22:08,166
It's exactly what Sid was
saying.

402
00:22:08,166 --> 00:22:12,885
I tinker with my
keywords all
the time, and it just, you can,

403
00:22:12,885 --> 00:22:16,050
I can make a
change, go grab a
sandwich, and come back, and I'm

404
00:22:16,050 --> 00:22:19,010
the number
one ranked show on
that keyword that fast.

405
00:22:19,010 --> 00:22:22,898
It's the same kind of
with
cover art, although it takes a

406
00:22:22,898 --> 00:22:26,082
lot longer, you can't
get
those instant results.

407
00:22:26,082 --> 00:22:30,098
And one more thing, the it's
really
unfortunate because

408
00:22:30,098 --> 00:22:33,650
Spotify just fixed their
discovery system so
much it

409
00:22:33,650 --> 00:22:37,274
screwed it up for everyone.
Esther, I mean, I,
they used

410
00:22:37,274 --> 00:22:40,545
to have this discovery funnel
with three very succinct


411
00:22:40,553 --> 00:22:44,920
metrics that you could gage on,
they just combined them into


412
00:22:44,928 --> 00:22:47,097
two, and it really screwed
everything up.

413
00:22:47,097 --> 00:22:49,963
But that is how I
would test.
I'd go into their discovery

414
00:22:49,963 --> 00:22:52,146
funnel process.
Now
there's a new way that I

415
00:22:52,146 --> 00:22:57,272
do it, but you know, you make a
change,
let that run for a

416
00:22:57,272 --> 00:23:00,400
quarter, you know, three months,
and then go
back in and see if

417
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,334
the numbers change, and if they
did, that's
your new baseline.

418
00:23:04,334 --> 00:23:08,212
And then think about how can you
go in
and make one more

419
00:23:08,212 --> 00:23:09,990
change, how can you make it
better?

420
00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:13,440
And then
run that for the next
three months, and slowly but

421
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,780
surely
you should be
constantly rising.

422
00:23:16,650 --> 00:23:18,204
Marc Ronick: Good stuff.
Thank
you, Dan and Sid.

423
00:23:18,204 --> 00:23:19,650
I think you had a question for
Dan.

424
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,310
Sid Meadows: Yeah, thank you,

Marc.

425
00:23:21,310 --> 00:23:24,032
I was wondering, Dan, what were
your.. what's the
measurement

426
00:23:24,032 --> 00:23:26,486
that you're looking at to
determine that these
changes

427
00:23:26,486 --> 00:23:28,976
are being successful?
Is it just the listens and the


428
00:23:28,984 --> 00:23:30,920
plays, or there's something else
that you're looking at?

429
00:23:31,610 --> 00:23:34,670
Dan: So, the easiest place to

find this, unfortunately, is

430
00:23:35,060 --> 00:23:36,970
Spotify.
If you go into your
Spotify

431
00:23:36,970 --> 00:23:40,840
for creators, you can go over to
Discovery, and there is,
oh,

432
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,240
what is it called?
There's like a conversion under

433
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,686
discovery, and you just want
this number to be as high as you

434
00:23:48,686 --> 00:23:52,534

can, like if it's under three,
I can't even say that because I

435
00:23:52,534 --> 00:23:55,534
had to reverse engineer
something, I multiply the number

436
00:23:55,534 --> 00:23:58,756

that you see there, three, I
just hate that they screwed it


437
00:23:58,764 --> 00:24:01,836
up, and you have to go, I gotta
log into Apple for this Spotify,

438
00:24:01,836 --> 00:24:05,241

for this YouTube tube is
really good, though, because

439
00:24:05,241 --> 00:24:09,495
it's
Spotify copied them, and
they've been doing it for the

440
00:24:09,495 --> 00:24:13,072
last year
and a half now.
They stopped doing it, which is

441
00:24:13,072 --> 00:24:17,106
that interest
to click ratio.
So, and that basically means

442
00:24:17,106 --> 00:24:21,663
Spotify is going
to show your
cover art to x number of people,

443
00:24:21,663 --> 00:24:25,544
and there's a
percentage of
the people who actually see the

444
00:24:25,544 --> 00:24:29,006
cover art that
actually click
on it, and that's the number

445
00:24:29,006 --> 00:24:32,384
that you want to
grow, but you
basically want to take one thing

446
00:24:32,384 --> 00:24:36,104
at a time, and
like that thing
about, well, they showed my

447
00:24:36,104 --> 00:24:41,158
cover art to 1000
people, and
only 13 people clicked on it, I

448
00:24:41,158 --> 00:24:43,648
don't care what
happens after
they clicked, because that's a

449
00:24:43,648 --> 00:24:46,430
different
problem you want to
fix down the road, right?

450
00:24:46,430 --> 00:24:51,115
But how do you
improve that?
You know, how do you improve the

451
00:24:51,115 --> 00:24:53,125
number of people
to actually
click?

452
00:24:53,125 --> 00:24:57,132
And I find the best way to do it
is just
take a, you know, take

453
00:24:57,132 --> 00:25:01,410
your main keyword, go to Apple.
So, and
Spotify, type your

454
00:25:01,410 --> 00:25:06,698
keyword in, take a screenshot of
the top of
the fold shows on

455
00:25:06,698 --> 00:25:10,695
your desktop, do this, not on
your phone, and
then take

456
00:25:10,695 --> 00:25:15,366
those images and basically go
into your, you
know, AI of

457
00:25:15,366 --> 00:25:18,428
choice, and basically say,
"Here's my
current cover art,

458
00:25:18,428 --> 00:25:21,332
here's what the search results
look like for
this main

459
00:25:21,332 --> 00:25:24,272
keyword, tell me what's
overused, tell me what
stands

460
00:25:24,272 --> 00:25:27,960
out, you know, give me three
specific changes that I
can

461
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,976
move the needle that you just
want it to pop off the
screen,

462
00:25:30,976 --> 00:25:34,270
it's all about differentiation.
Marc Ronick: Thank you, Dan,


463
00:25:34,278 --> 00:25:36,705
appreciate that.
And by the way, James, I know

464
00:25:36,705 --> 00:25:39,996
you are on stage
here, and
just curious, did you have

465
00:25:39,996 --> 00:25:42,748
something you wanted to add
to
the conversation, or you're just

466
00:25:42,748 --> 00:25:45,423
here for the conversation,

just checking in with you.

467
00:25:45,423 --> 00:25:47,345
There he is.
James: I mean, I'm always here


468
00:25:47,353 --> 00:25:50,660
for the conversation, but you
know, cover art was, uh, was a


469
00:25:50,668 --> 00:25:54,645
big deal for for me, and when I
had Across the Pond Sports


470
00:25:54,653 --> 00:25:58,941
Network, because I had to make
sure, like, it was all kind of


471
00:25:58,949 --> 00:26:03,273
branded the same way, and I
think it was John said in the


472
00:26:03,281 --> 00:26:08,403
comments, if you've got a face
for radio, use a cartoon, which

473
00:26:08,403 --> 00:26:13,107
is exactly what I did.
Across the pond was very

474
00:26:13,107 --> 00:26:16,903
cartoonish,
had a style, but
if you're gonna have multiple

475
00:26:16,903 --> 00:26:21,132
podcasts, like,
and they're
the same thing, because I know

476
00:26:21,132 --> 00:26:23,277
some people have
different
podcasts and that do different

477
00:26:23,277 --> 00:26:27,086
things, but because
all mine
were sports related and we kind

478
00:26:27,086 --> 00:26:31,570
of built it as a
network, we
did, or I did make the decision

479
00:26:31,570 --> 00:26:36,120
that everyone would
be a
cartoon, and to be fair,

480
00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:39,210
everyone loved that, because

everyone was like, yeah, I don't

481
00:26:39,210 --> 00:26:43,995
really want my actual face while

I'm watching a while I'm

482
00:26:43,995 --> 00:26:47,835
listening to a podcast, so

actually the cartoon version

483
00:26:47,835 --> 00:26:53,235
worked well, but the brand

recognition of keeping all of

484
00:26:53,235 --> 00:26:58,485
those logos similar, maybe

different colors, different

485
00:26:58,485 --> 00:27:03,165
themes, like orange was WNBA,

NFL was blue, like those kind of

486
00:27:03,165 --> 00:27:07,170
things, keeping, but keeping the

text, the cartoon versions of

487
00:27:07,170 --> 00:27:10,350
the hosts and stuff the same.

Yeah, the brand recognition was

488
00:27:10,350 --> 00:27:14,160
amazing, because when I went

down to Wembley to cover Jags

489
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,000
Broncos, when I got media

credentials, was I forgot my

490
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,500
wallet, and they asked me for my

ID when I got to the desk and

491
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:25,110
I was like, oh no, I've flight

left my wall in the car, it's

492
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:28,605
like 20 minutes away, and this

woman came from nowhere, never

493
00:27:28,605 --> 00:27:33,255
seen her in my life before, and
she goes, what's the problem,

494
00:27:33,285 --> 00:27:37,233
and the guy goes, oh, he's left
his ID in his car, and she

495
00:27:37,233 --> 00:27:40,240
goes, oh no, I know him, he's
James
Scott, he's with Across

496
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,625
the Pond, just and that for me,
like
one thing I was like,

497
00:27:44,625 --> 00:27:49,465
"Wow, the NFL really do vet you,
because,
like, "Wow, where did

498
00:27:49,465 --> 00:27:52,300
she come from?
But then, second, I was
like,

499
00:27:52,300 --> 00:27:55,580
"Well, she knows, and she knows
I'm putting out good
content,

500
00:27:55,580 --> 00:27:58,460
so that the NFL likes, so like,
but there was..

501
00:27:58,460 --> 00:28:02,708
I kind
of put that down to the
branding, because otherwise, if

502
00:28:02,708 --> 00:28:07,446
I just had a mundane logo,
like, didn't have faces or

503
00:28:07,446 --> 00:28:10,035
didn't even
have cartoons or
wasn't recognizable, then I

504
00:28:10,035 --> 00:28:14,190
would have
had to walk 20
minutes back to my car, get my

505
00:28:14,190 --> 00:28:17,235
wallet with my
ID, and then
walk 20 minutes back.

506
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:18,775
Marc Ronick: That's pretty cool.



507
00:28:18,783 --> 00:28:20,942
I love that.
It's such a great point, and

508
00:28:20,942 --> 00:28:24,290
yeah, I think, look,
I know
that John's joking a lot in the

509
00:28:24,290 --> 00:28:27,290
chat about face for
radio, and
I think he said something about

510
00:28:27,290 --> 00:28:31,030
if you're seven
or higher,
then put yourself into your

511
00:28:31,030 --> 00:28:34,010
cover image, but if
not, yeah,
if you're lower than a seven,

512
00:28:34,010 --> 00:28:37,300
but he's kidding, and I
think
that there's something to be

513
00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:40,990
said about, yeah, choosing

something like a cartoon as

514
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,510
you're branding and really

leaning into that, I mean, we do

515
00:28:43,630 --> 00:28:48,333
that to a degree, right?
Like
our main cover image, the

516
00:28:48,333 --> 00:28:51,526
logo, if you will, that does not
have
anything cartoon, and for

517
00:28:51,526 --> 00:28:55,262
a long time it did have a real
image of
me, and now when we

518
00:28:55,262 --> 00:28:58,590
change the name, we're just
going with the
actual text,

519
00:28:58,590 --> 00:29:01,138
and we removed me from it.
For now, we'll see.

520
00:29:01,138 --> 00:29:04,465
I
kind of go back and forth
with that sometimes, but for my

521
00:29:04,465 --> 00:29:08,490
episode cover images, our
episode cover images, you'll see

522
00:29:08,490 --> 00:29:12,900

that we use these Pixar style
images, and I know that it's


523
00:29:12,908 --> 00:29:14,730
working.
I know that that brand

524
00:29:14,790 --> 00:29:18,120
recognition is working, because
people tell me so, you know,

525
00:29:18,270 --> 00:29:22,580
even even colleagues like Dave

Jackson, he tells me that he,

526
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,240
whenever he's scrolling on the

internet, and he sees me, you

527
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,945
know, or on social media, and he

sees one of our cover images,

528
00:29:29,945 --> 00:29:32,849
he always stops.
He said, "I stop,
I see what

529
00:29:32,849 --> 00:29:35,861
cartoon Mark is up to today, you
know.

530
00:29:35,861 --> 00:29:39,742
So it does
catch attention
sometimes, doing something a

531
00:29:39,742 --> 00:29:42,696
little out of the
ordinary, as
opposed to just using your

532
00:29:42,696 --> 00:29:46,123
photo, and I do think
using
your photo is can be helpful

533
00:29:46,123 --> 00:29:48,481
too, right?
Because when
people are

534
00:29:48,481 --> 00:29:52,132
scrolling, if they're just going
to see text, they may
keep

535
00:29:52,132 --> 00:29:55,315
scrolling, right, but if there's
a person associated with
that

536
00:29:55,315 --> 00:29:58,636
text, it might make them stop,
especially if you're a
seven

537
00:29:58,636 --> 00:30:01,848
or higher, right, John.
But yeah, I really think there's

538
00:30:01,848 --> 00:30:04,725

a lot to be said about that.
Thank you for sharing that


539
00:30:04,733 --> 00:30:06,678
story, James.
Very cool story as well.

540
00:30:06,678 --> 00:30:09,180
Does anyone want to add

anything else as far as Mark

541
00:30:09,570 --> 00:30:10,666
questions?
I want to Ralph Estep Jr.: jump,

542
00:30:10,666 --> 00:30:12,848
I want to
jump in here, Marc,
because I think the thing that

543
00:30:12,848 --> 00:30:14,389
we..
I want
to take it back up to

544
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:16,774
30,000 feet.
I think with cover art you


545
00:30:16,782 --> 00:30:19,750
have to think about this, it's
the first handshake that you're

546
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:22,270
going to have with your
audience, and you got to think


547
00:30:22,278 --> 00:30:25,690
about it like it's a storefront,
you're driving past at 35 miles

548
00:30:25,690 --> 00:30:28,295
an hour.
Does the sign tell me something

549
00:30:28,295 --> 00:30:30,358
inside?
So many people
I've seen with

550
00:30:30,358 --> 00:30:33,801
cover art, they have way too
much stuff on it,
it's way too

551
00:30:33,801 --> 00:30:36,193
busy, and as you're scrolling
through, you aren't
going to

552
00:30:36,193 --> 00:30:38,613
catch it.
You've got like a millisecond to

553
00:30:38,613 --> 00:30:41,554
catch
them.
So my advice to everybody doing

554
00:30:41,554 --> 00:30:44,635
cover art, whether it's
the
show art or the individual

555
00:30:44,635 --> 00:30:48,235
titles for the episodes, is to

make sure that if I'm driving by

556
00:30:48,235 --> 00:30:51,385
at 35 miles an hour, I'm going

to want to say, oh, I'm more

557
00:30:51,385 --> 00:30:53,455
interested in this, because

they're not going to read your

558
00:30:53,455 --> 00:30:56,245
title, they're not going to read

your description if the cover

559
00:30:56,245 --> 00:30:58,150
art doesn't grab them and pull

them in.

560
00:30:58,690 --> 00:31:01,390
Marc Ronick: I think that's a

fair point, and I appreciate you

561
00:31:01,450 --> 00:31:05,802
raising that one, Ralph.
Yeah,
go ahead, DR. DR: Yep.

562
00:31:05,802 --> 00:31:09,580
So I want to use one of
my
clients as an example here.

563
00:31:09,580 --> 00:31:15,330
I had a client that was into

robotics and animation and

564
00:31:15,630 --> 00:31:20,744
automation, automation, and what

we did is that we took a look

565
00:31:20,744 --> 00:31:25,880
at all the podcasts that were in

his genre, and for some reason

566
00:31:26,810 --> 00:31:32,480
there was a lot of black and

navy blue, dark, really heavy

567
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,070
duty saturated colors, and I

insisted that we go opposite, so

568
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:42,610
we had a white cover with, you

know, the gear image on it, and

569
00:31:42,820 --> 00:31:45,070
because when someone is

scrolling on their six inch

570
00:31:45,190 --> 00:31:49,570
screen, and they have, you know,

maybe their six inch screen

571
00:31:49,750 --> 00:31:53,770
shows three or four of these

tiny little squares, we're going

572
00:31:53,770 --> 00:31:55,390
to need something that jumps

out.

573
00:31:55,390 --> 00:32:00,240
Now, my little saying, you've
heard of SEO, you've
heard of

574
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:06,978
AEO, this is ECO, I eye catching
optimization, and
there's also

575
00:32:06,978 --> 00:32:13,766
people who use that really thin
script font that
looks so

576
00:32:13,766 --> 00:32:18,740
beautiful, can't see it on a six
inch screen, cannot see
it.

577
00:32:18,740 --> 00:32:23,038
Please don't use that on your
cover art, because it just
is

578
00:32:23,038 --> 00:32:26,522
a, it's a waste of real estate,
basically.

579
00:32:26,522 --> 00:32:33,896
So, use big,
bold font, use
colors that no one else is using

580
00:32:33,896 --> 00:32:38,608
in your genre,
and stand out.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, e-co.

581
00:32:38,608 --> 00:32:42,064
And I
think that does speak to
what Ralph is saying, too,

582
00:32:42,064 --> 00:32:43,780
right?

It's, it's that idea of having

583
00:32:43,870 --> 00:32:47,689
that attractive sign that's easy

to, to understand and know

584
00:32:47,689 --> 00:32:50,370
what you're getting if you're

interested in that sign.

585
00:32:50,370 --> 00:32:54,745
And that's why we also preach
about
our podcast titles,

586
00:32:54,745 --> 00:32:58,665
names, right?
Is to be as clear as you
can

587
00:32:58,665 --> 00:33:01,369
for your show.
Will somebody know what your

588
00:33:01,369 --> 00:33:05,214
show is about by
looking at
the cover art, by looking at the

589
00:33:05,214 --> 00:33:06,286
title.
Do they
know?

590
00:33:06,286 --> 00:33:09,948
You know, for us, I mean, you
could make an argument one
way

591
00:33:09,948 --> 00:33:13,000
or another, podcasting morning
show, but I think that


592
00:33:13,008 --> 00:33:17,058
overall, most people have an
idea it's a podcast morning


593
00:33:17,066 --> 00:33:20,070
show.
They may not know exactly that

594
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:23,660
this is a show that talks

about podcasting, but they

595
00:33:23,780 --> 00:33:27,500
wouldn't be surprised either if
they got curious and pressed

596
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:30,620
play what they were gonna get

out of it, but so I would say,

597
00:33:30,860 --> 00:33:34,820
honestly, if I'm rating our own
name, it's probably like a six

598
00:33:34,940 --> 00:33:39,320
or a seven on a scale of one to
10, because it's not perfectly

599
00:33:39,410 --> 00:33:43,570
clear as to what it is, yeah, I
think it's really important to

600
00:33:43,660 --> 00:33:46,870
think about that, and that is

the title is part of your cover

601
00:33:47,020 --> 00:33:49,930
image, part of your cover art,

so you have to think about all

602
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,606
of that together, and if people
don't understand, I'm curious

603
00:33:52,606 --> 00:33:55,740
if anybody here feels like
similar
to me, that like my

604
00:33:55,740 --> 00:33:58,715
show kind of does, but it
doesn't quite hit
the nail on

605
00:33:58,715 --> 00:34:01,968
the head, I know for Ralph, like
Ralph's, is very
clear.

606
00:34:01,968 --> 00:34:04,110
Content creators, accountant, we
know what we're
gonna get.

607
00:34:04,590 --> 00:34:06,330
Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, and I did

that intentionally, and the

608
00:34:06,450 --> 00:34:08,850
reason I chose to put my

beautiful face on it, because

609
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,906
I'm above a seven, I hope.
But
no, I'm just being funny,

610
00:34:11,906 --> 00:34:15,096
is I believe there's a trust
factor
when you put your face

611
00:34:15,096 --> 00:34:17,610
on something.
I think it helps to
build that

612
00:34:17,610 --> 00:34:20,139
relationship, and everything I
do is about
relationships, so

613
00:34:20,139 --> 00:34:22,520
it really depends on your show,
but if
you, if you're trying

614
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,013
to build a relationship with
your audience,
I think putting

615
00:34:25,013 --> 00:34:28,130
your fit, your face on there is
actually a
really good plan.

616
00:34:28,759 --> 00:34:31,819
James: Can I just add into this
face thing?

617
00:34:31,819 --> 00:34:35,551
Ralph, 100% agree.
When I first started across the

618
00:34:35,551 --> 00:34:40,498
pond, I had actually exactly
what Dr described, a blue


619
00:34:40,507 --> 00:34:45,458
background with some yellow
writing looked horrible, and it

620
00:34:45,458 --> 00:34:50,074
was actually Katie Brinkley
back in the day who said, What

621
00:34:50,074 --> 00:34:53,554
you
need something better,
people buy into people, so if

622
00:34:53,554 --> 00:34:57,279
they can
see you, they're
gonna buy into you, and you're

623
00:34:57,279 --> 00:34:59,919
gonna get more
listeners that
way, and finally.

624
00:34:59,999 --> 00:35:01,994
Enough.
When we changed the
logos to

625
00:35:01,994 --> 00:35:05,301
the cartoons, even though it was
a cartoon, it was
still my

626
00:35:05,301 --> 00:35:07,219
face.
People did start to buy into

627
00:35:07,219 --> 00:35:10,549
that way more, and
yeah, we
took a big.. we actually, we

628
00:35:10,549 --> 00:35:13,295
took a big bump in
listeners
when we, when they changed the

629
00:35:13,295 --> 00:35:17,549
logo from the boring
blue and
yellow, like a really bold font

630
00:35:17,549 --> 00:35:21,319
with my face on it,
even
though I'm definitely not seven,

631
00:35:21,319 --> 00:35:23,659
but yeah, it worked
really
well.

632
00:35:23,659 --> 00:35:26,219
So, to Ralph's point, it's like
spot on.

633
00:35:26,219 --> 00:35:29,564
People
buy into people, and if
they can see you, you're more

634
00:35:29,564 --> 00:35:33,278
likely to
buy into you.
Marc Ronick: I'm with you there.

635
00:35:33,278 --> 00:35:33,566


Absolutely.

636
00:35:33,566 --> 00:35:35,990
Thank you, James.
And, BC, you had something.

637
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,560
BC Babbles: Yeah, I was just

yesterday discussing with myself

638
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,020
whether or not the name of my

show does really any kind of

639
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,780
service to the show itself, the
show is called Casual Babble,

640
00:35:47,620 --> 00:35:50,710
and it's, and I realized, you

know, what it's, it makes sense

641
00:35:50,860 --> 00:35:54,820
to me, because I understand why
I chose the words, but by

642
00:35:54,820 --> 00:35:57,780
itself I need to do something to
really
let people know, like

643
00:35:57,780 --> 00:36:00,706
to Ralph's earlier point, it's
the first
handshake, it

644
00:36:00,706 --> 00:36:04,480
doesn't really provide a hand to
shake with by
itself.

645
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,868
So yesterday I added on a little
tagline to the title
where we

646
00:36:08,868 --> 00:36:12,304
make entrepreneurship make
sense, so that that at
least

647
00:36:12,304 --> 00:36:15,936
brings in, while keeping the
initial kind of whimsy that


648
00:36:15,944 --> 00:36:19,542
brings the inherent purpose to
the show Marc Ronick: that makes

649
00:36:19,542 --> 00:36:20,910
sense.

And here's the thing, the

650
00:36:20,910 --> 00:36:24,990
challenge is that yes, we're,

we've been, we've been praising

651
00:36:24,990 --> 00:36:28,050
the idea of adding these tag

lines that we see how well it

652
00:36:28,050 --> 00:36:30,240
worked for Sid right away, but

you're not going to be able to

653
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:32,624
really fit that on your cover

art, right?

654
00:36:32,624 --> 00:36:36,375
And if that is that first
handshake, people might
not,

655
00:36:36,375 --> 00:36:39,750
they might be getting a soft
handshake.

656
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:42,697
DR: I think you can fit it on

your cover art, Marc Ronick: but

657
00:36:42,697 --> 00:36:45,336
can you really
read it?
Can you really read it when it's

658
00:36:45,336 --> 00:36:48,846
shrunken down on a
phone?
That's my question, and I'm not

659
00:36:48,846 --> 00:36:50,716
saying you can't, I'm
asking
that question.

660
00:36:50,716 --> 00:36:54,507
Can you really read it?
BC Babbles: Challenge accepted,

661
00:36:54,507 --> 00:36:56,274
but Sid Meadows: also I'm agree
with
you.

662
00:36:56,274 --> 00:36:59,166
I don't know that you can
actually really read it, Marc,


663
00:36:59,174 --> 00:37:03,248
but also your cover art, the
words on your cover art, as I


664
00:37:03,256 --> 00:37:06,192
understand them, are not
searchable because it's an


665
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,534
image, right?
So, if you use your keywords on

666
00:37:09,534 --> 00:37:12,044
your cover art,
Google's not
going to pick up those, because

667
00:37:12,044 --> 00:37:14,940
it's not text.

So, it is to Ralph's point

668
00:37:14,940 --> 00:37:19,485
earlier, it's the first hello

and protect it and make sure

669
00:37:19,485 --> 00:37:22,875
that it attracts, and I

certainly would not overload it

670
00:37:22,875 --> 00:37:25,240
with words.
And listen, I know
my cover

671
00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:28,542
art needs work.
It's on the list for us to do as

672
00:37:28,542 --> 00:37:30,105
we
begin planning for season
eight.

673
00:37:30,135 --> 00:37:33,165
I'm happy, I'm okay with it

right now, but it needs work,

674
00:37:33,165 --> 00:37:35,595
and we'll get it fixed for the

next season.

675
00:37:35,595 --> 00:37:37,995
But yeah, it's prime real
estate.

676
00:37:37,995 --> 00:37:39,225
Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, another

thing I wanted to throw out

677
00:37:39,225 --> 00:37:41,550
there is, if someone's

misreading your show because of

678
00:37:41,550 --> 00:37:46,020
the art you got to fix that

because if they don't understand

679
00:37:46,020 --> 00:37:49,320
what your show is and your

artwork is taking them down a

680
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,290
road where it's making it

confusing that's a positioning

681
00:37:52,290 --> 00:37:56,170
problem and that's something you

got to get fixed DR: packaging

682
00:37:56,170 --> 00:38:02,952
but also when you
for instance
Libsyn if you have the title of

683
00:38:02,952 --> 00:38:07,793
your podcast in
Lipson, on
that line of, you know, the

684
00:38:07,793 --> 00:38:10,345
title of your podcast
on the
line, do you know what I'm

685
00:38:10,345 --> 00:38:13,299
saying?
On the back end of
Lipson, I

686
00:38:13,299 --> 00:38:17,859
put the tag right there on that
same line, so it
is being

687
00:38:17,859 --> 00:38:21,093
indexed in that respect.
Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, but DR.


688
00:38:21,101 --> 00:38:23,147
What you're talking about in the
artwork are two different


689
00:38:23,155 --> 00:38:25,970
things, because what you're
talking about is for


690
00:38:25,978 --> 00:38:28,580
searchability.
I 100% agree with you on

691
00:38:28,580 --> 00:38:30,222
searchability.
You want
to have that title

692
00:38:30,222 --> 00:38:32,454
with the subtitle and the
tagline in it.


693
00:38:32,462 --> 00:38:35,220
For the artwork, though,
honestly, I think you need no


694
00:38:35,228 --> 00:38:38,688
more than like five words.
If you go with any more than

695
00:38:38,688 --> 00:38:41,998
five
words, people are flying
past you at 55 miles an hour,

696
00:38:41,998 --> 00:38:44,278
they're
not going to see it.
That's my personal opinion.

697
00:38:44,278 --> 00:38:46,720
I just think
that it's like
when I see clients put

698
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:49,374
billboards up on the
side of
the road, they want to stuff

699
00:38:49,374 --> 00:38:51,855
those with so many words.

I'm like, dude, the person's

700
00:38:51,855 --> 00:38:55,515
driving by at 60 miles an hour,
you might have three words, you

701
00:38:55,515 --> 00:38:58,243
might get five.
If you don't
make that

702
00:38:58,243 --> 00:39:00,846
encapsulation in that, I think
the same thing for
these,

703
00:39:00,846 --> 00:39:02,883
because people are on their
phone, they're scrolling


704
00:39:02,891 --> 00:39:05,955
through shows, they, you got to
grab something that grabs them,

705
00:39:06,869 --> 00:39:10,559
DR: and that's why I went as, as

much as I hate a white

706
00:39:10,649 --> 00:39:14,369
background, we went with a white

background for my client, and

707
00:39:14,579 --> 00:39:17,609
it, it's eye-catching, someone

will tap that and say, what is

708
00:39:17,759 --> 00:39:21,109
that, that's when it comes up

bigger, and you can see those

709
00:39:21,529 --> 00:39:25,769
that extra tag, Marc Ronick:
yeah, so, so, yeah,
it's a, it

710
00:39:25,769 --> 00:39:30,170
works well for the second level,
but maybe not the
first level,

711
00:39:30,590 --> 00:39:33,950
DR: right, Marc Ronick: yeah,
and by the
way, Ralph,

712
00:39:33,950 --> 00:39:37,406
excellent analogy, as far as
using billboards,
right,

713
00:39:37,406 --> 00:39:40,992
because that, it's kind of the,
it feels very similar,
right?

714
00:39:40,992 --> 00:39:44,530
Because, like, you said, people
are driving 6070 miles an


715
00:39:44,538 --> 00:39:47,214
hour, and it's passing them by
quickly.

716
00:39:47,214 --> 00:39:50,347
And if we think about
these
billboards, think about it when

717
00:39:50,347 --> 00:39:53,020
you're on the highway, and

which billboards catch your

718
00:39:53,050 --> 00:39:55,346
attention.
And then ask
yourself, why,

719
00:39:55,346 --> 00:39:57,796
right?
Because it's probably very

720
00:39:57,796 --> 00:40:02,634
eye-catching,
bold, bright.
It's got big words and not very

721
00:40:02,634 --> 00:40:04,584
many words.
Ralph Estep Jr.: It's like the


722
00:40:04,592 --> 00:40:05,789
McDonald's one.
It says, "I'm loving it.

723
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:07,907
DR: Yeah, Ralph Estep Jr.: in
yellow words
with their red

724
00:40:07,907 --> 00:40:10,721
background, you know exactly
what that is, and
it makes you

725
00:40:10,721 --> 00:40:14,040
feel a certain way.
Marc Ronick: Yes, and that's


726
00:40:14,048 --> 00:40:17,468
because the I'm loving it.
They've spent millions and


727
00:40:17,476 --> 00:40:20,660
millions of dollars on that
campaign for us to know.

728
00:40:20,660 --> 00:40:23,946
Now,
granted, again, when we
talk about imagery, right, that

729
00:40:23,946 --> 00:40:27,140
billboard is going to say more
than I'm loving it, right?

730
00:40:27,140 --> 00:40:29,490
The
words are going to say I'm
loving it, but we're going to


731
00:40:29,498 --> 00:40:32,886
see the images, we're going to
see those fries and shakes, or


732
00:40:32,894 --> 00:40:35,453
whatever it is they're..
Ralph Estep Jr.: I think you got

733
00:40:35,453 --> 00:40:38,352

to do the same thing with your
cover art for your podcast, is


734
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,465
what is the emotion, what is the
pain, what is the feeling behind

735
00:40:42,465 --> 00:40:44,790

what you're doing?
Because your eyes are actually

736
00:40:44,790 --> 00:40:48,193
going to see
that before they
see the words, so I think you

737
00:40:48,193 --> 00:40:51,615
need to be mighty
intentional
in what that looks like behind

738
00:40:51,615 --> 00:40:54,850
the words.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and again, I

739
00:40:54,850 --> 00:40:58,090
love the analogy, because just
like driving 60 miles an hour


740
00:40:58,098 --> 00:41:01,552
down the highway, that's kind of
the same way that people are


741
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,740
scrolling on the on the social
media platforms, right?

742
00:41:04,740 --> 00:41:09,825
It's
just quick, quick flips,
and it's the ones that are


743
00:41:09,833 --> 00:41:12,972
eye-catching that they're gonna
more likely stop on.

744
00:41:12,972 --> 00:41:15,884
Yeah, fair
enough.
Okay, and I see there's been

745
00:41:15,884 --> 00:41:17,242
some activity going on in
the
chat.

746
00:41:17,242 --> 00:41:19,855
I'm not going to sit here and
try to catch up at the
moment,

747
00:41:19,855 --> 00:41:21,500
but I see things are busy over
there.

748
00:41:23,170 --> 00:41:24,730
Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, I think

the central question is John

749
00:41:24,730 --> 00:41:28,510
Domingo is asking, should the

name of the podcast be in the

750
00:41:28,510 --> 00:41:31,840
episode art, and that's an

interesting question, because I

751
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,110
don't know that it has to be,

honestly, because you're going

752
00:41:35,110 --> 00:41:39,370
to see both things, so why waste

the art with the name of the

753
00:41:39,370 --> 00:41:40,850
show?
I'm not sure you have to
do

754
00:41:40,850 --> 00:41:42,010
that, John.
That's my personal opinion.

755
00:41:42,010 --> 00:41:43,270
I just don't
think it's
necessary.

756
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,902
Marc Ronick: It does make it

really cluttered.

757
00:41:44,902 --> 00:41:49,705
It can make it really cluttered.
And what we
do, it, we add the

758
00:41:49,705 --> 00:41:51,856
PMC logo.
I have to go back and look.

759
00:41:51,856 --> 00:41:54,890
I feel
like the last few may
not have that, but I'll go back

760
00:41:54,890 --> 00:41:57,040
and look.

But normally I add the

761
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,450
podcasting morning show logo in
there, and I just do, I do

762
00:42:01,450 --> 00:42:04,480
understanding that again.
If
people are just scrolling

763
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,675
through episodes, they're not

seeing that logo, but to DR.

764
00:42:07,765 --> 00:42:10,855
point, at that point, once they
click through, they'll be able

765
00:42:10,855 --> 00:42:13,975
to see that logo more.
And the
way I kind of look at

766
00:42:13,975 --> 00:42:19,621
it is, is that my show name is
usually
listed right next to

767
00:42:19,621 --> 00:42:23,779
or around the artwork, you know,
Apple,
for example, has

768
00:42:23,779 --> 00:42:27,451
podcasting morning show right
next to the
cover image of the

769
00:42:27,451 --> 00:42:31,291
episode or the series image, so
I don't
think it's that

770
00:42:31,291 --> 00:42:34,037
necessary to be in there, Ralph
Estep Jr.: and I think
you're

771
00:42:34,037 --> 00:42:36,278
also need to differentiate
between two
things, there's

772
00:42:36,278 --> 00:42:38,894
the show art and then the
episode art.

773
00:42:38,894 --> 00:42:43,130
One thing
that I did recently
is my team was just putting very

774
00:42:43,130 --> 00:42:45,560
simple
episode titles or
episode art.

775
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,870
It was just a title.
I said, "I
don't like this,

776
00:42:47,870 --> 00:42:50,732
and we changed it.
We put images on it, and
I've

777
00:42:50,732 --> 00:42:54,301
seen a bump up in people looking
at those now, because we
put

778
00:42:54,301 --> 00:42:56,876
into, like, John Domingo does a
great job of this,
actually.

779
00:42:56,876 --> 00:42:59,941
And he said that people send in
the artwork that
he uses.

780
00:42:59,941 --> 00:43:03,685
John, I got to be blunt, dude.
It works because
you want to

781
00:43:03,685 --> 00:43:06,737
see what John's crew is going to
put up next, because
they put

782
00:43:06,737 --> 00:43:09,491
some crazy stuff out there, but
it attracts your eye.


783
00:43:09,499 --> 00:43:13,115
It's a little too busy for a
small thing, but if you were


784
00:43:13,123 --> 00:43:15,755
going on YouTube, where you got
more real estate, I think it


785
00:43:15,763 --> 00:43:17,725
works better.
But it definitely attracts your

786
00:43:17,725 --> 00:43:19,637
attention.
Marc Ronick: Yep.

787
00:43:19,637 --> 00:43:22,636
Thank you,
Ralph.
And I saw that Dave put in the

788
00:43:22,636 --> 00:43:25,850
chat, if the name is in
the
image, it makes it shareable

789
00:43:25,850 --> 00:43:30,710
outside your show, and yeah, I

agree and disagree at the same

790
00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:35,358
time, only because I don't think

people are just sharing my

791
00:43:35,358 --> 00:43:40,076
cover image alone, right, like,
and if
they're sharing it,

792
00:43:40,076 --> 00:43:45,375
it's maybe attached to a social
media post,
and that post has

793
00:43:45,375 --> 00:43:51,079
my show name, that both as the
who the poster
is and also

794
00:43:51,079 --> 00:43:56,210
within the text of the content
of the post itself,
and so I

795
00:43:56,210 --> 00:44:00,195
don't know that I just don't
know how effective that
really

796
00:44:00,195 --> 00:44:04,112
is, it can't hurt, so that's why
I don't disagree,
like, yeah,

797
00:44:04,112 --> 00:44:07,271
in some cases maybe somebody's
only going to see
that cover

798
00:44:07,271 --> 00:44:10,080
image, but I still don't know if
that's going to
stop them,

799
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,230
because now they saw my logo as
part of the image, Ralph Estep

800
00:44:13,230 --> 00:44:14,880
Jr.: and I think the
bigger
issue, though, Marc, is

801
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,120
branding, and I think you have

to be intentional in your

802
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,730
branding, I think if you're all
over the place and you got

803
00:44:20,730 --> 00:44:23,520
different colors every time, and

different fonts, and all that

804
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,162
kind of time.
I think it breaks
your brand,

805
00:44:25,162 --> 00:44:27,420
so that's one thing that I've
leaned into, is
branding.

806
00:44:27,420 --> 00:44:30,998
I think that's really important.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and John here

807
00:44:30,998 --> 00:44:34,970

in the chat says the standard
podcasting answer: it depends.


808
00:44:34,978 --> 00:44:38,440
Yes, totally agree with you
there.

809
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,866
Let's see now, it's
funny, we
like, we're hitting all of these

810
00:44:41,866 --> 00:44:44,519
questions from the
mailbag,
and we haven't actually asked

811
00:44:44,519 --> 00:44:48,700
half of them, but that's
okay.
I want to see here, where

812
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,748
haven't we gone yet?
But I see
we have some

813
00:44:51,748 --> 00:44:54,220
speakers, so maybe that's a
better thing to do.


814
00:44:54,228 --> 00:44:56,053
And, Rez, you had something as
well.

815
00:44:56,053 --> 00:44:58,420
Let me check in with you.

We're a little short on time, so

816
00:44:58,420 --> 00:45:01,520
I want to try to keep it going.
Rez: Mark, sorry about that.

817
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,140
I
feel like I sound like Tony
Robbins, my voice.

818
00:45:04,349 --> 00:45:06,689
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and I noticed

it yesterday a little bit too.

819
00:45:06,990 --> 00:45:11,670
Rez: So I was just gonna say, if

you're using AI to create your

820
00:45:11,790 --> 00:45:15,720
cover art, like, when I, okay,

it's everybody, the whole world,

821
00:45:15,810 --> 00:45:21,050
I mean, if you're not, you, I,

but do you have to sort of, it's

822
00:45:21,140 --> 00:45:24,140
okay to embrace the fact that

you're using AI, like you're not

823
00:45:24,260 --> 00:45:26,889
hiding it, right?
Marc Ronick: I'm not hiding, and

824
00:45:26,889 --> 00:45:29,735

I publicly say it.
I mean, I can't - it's going to

825
00:45:29,735 --> 00:45:33,270
be too
cluttered to like put
some kind of disclaimer on the

826
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:37,019
cover art
itself, right?
But I am very publicly open

827
00:45:37,019 --> 00:45:38,933
about it.
I've
shared multiple times

828
00:45:38,933 --> 00:45:42,940
that I use Chat GPT to create
every episode
cover image,

829
00:45:43,660 --> 00:45:47,050
Rez: and when you're putting

something on Instagram that you

830
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,922
did with AI, should you leave

the AI tag on it?

831
00:45:51,922 --> 00:45:55,384
Yes, or you should.
Marc Ronick: Yes, I yeah.

832
00:45:55,384 --> 00:45:59,159
So,
for example, if I upload
something to Instagram that's AI

833
00:45:59,159 --> 00:46:02,959

generated, in, you know, it
asks me, is this AI generated?

834
00:46:02,959 --> 00:46:06,512
I say
yes every time.
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna

835
00:46:06,512 --> 00:46:09,119
hide that fact.

And if I do it on LinkedIn,

836
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,719
LinkedIn just has some kind of

AI detector, and it

837
00:46:12,869 --> 00:46:16,619
automatically adds a little bug
to it, saying that this was AI

838
00:46:16,829 --> 00:46:18,824
generated.
So I say yes, be as


839
00:46:18,832 --> 00:46:22,288
transparent as possible, Rez:
and that's good for both
the

840
00:46:22,288 --> 00:46:24,529
algorithm as well as just
ethics, right?

841
00:46:25,100 --> 00:46:27,064
Marc Ronick: Yeah, because what
might happen is, again, if

842
00:46:27,064 --> 00:46:29,726
we're talking about a social
media
platform, if they flag

843
00:46:29,726 --> 00:46:33,286
it as AI-generated and you
didn't say
it as such, that

844
00:46:33,286 --> 00:46:36,275
could be a big strike against
you, especially
if you

845
00:46:36,275 --> 00:46:40,272
continue to do it, you could end
up losing your account
at some

846
00:46:40,272 --> 00:46:43,990
point, so follow the their
rules, absolutely.

847
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,290
Rez: I did not know that it

would, it was that intense, but

848
00:46:47,470 --> 00:46:48,880
yeah, good thing I asked.
Thank
you.

849
00:46:48,970 --> 00:46:50,440
Marc Ronick: Oh yeah, I know

that.

850
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,395
I know accounts, TikTok,
Instagram, that have been taken

851
00:46:53,395 --> 00:46:57,625
down because they were putting
up AI-generated content and not

852
00:46:57,625 --> 00:47:00,550
disclosing that, so that's very
common.

853
00:47:01,210 --> 00:47:02,650
Rez: I see.
Thank you, Marc.

854
00:47:02,650 --> 00:47:04,530
Marc Ronick: Yep, you got it, my

friend.

855
00:47:04,530 --> 00:47:07,075
And I've been talking with Rez
on the side.

856
00:47:07,075 --> 00:47:09,960
I've got a
bug to learn how to
DJ.

857
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:11,800
I'm not talking about radio
DJing.

858
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,908
I've
learned that I haven't
said that I've perfected it by

859
00:47:14,908 --> 00:47:17,900
any
stretch, but I've learned
that I'm talking about music,

860
00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:21,610
like
actually, like the two
turntables that we see people


861
00:47:21,618 --> 00:47:24,138
mixing music for parties or
events, etc.

862
00:47:24,138 --> 00:47:28,178
I really am, I'm
really drawn
to it, and he has Marc.

863
00:47:28,178 --> 00:47:31,630
Marc, how about you invite
me
on your podcast, and then I'll

864
00:47:31,630 --> 00:47:35,577
explain everything there.
Well, yeah, I got to see how we

865
00:47:35,577 --> 00:47:38,397
could tie that all in, but
yeah, we could make something

866
00:47:38,397 --> 00:47:40,205
like
that work.
Yeah, Rez: that would be

867
00:47:40,205 --> 00:47:41,760
amazing,
amazing.
Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, say Marc.

868
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:42,635


Marc, I have a suggestion.

869
00:47:42,635 --> 00:47:45,711
As we close out today, please
let's
talk about this question

870
00:47:45,711 --> 00:47:47,614
I saw.
Can one thumbnail work


871
00:47:47,622 --> 00:47:49,480
everywhere?
Because I think that's one thing

872
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,682
that we could
take a minute
and talk about, because I'll

873
00:47:51,682 --> 00:47:53,400
just throw my own
experience
out there.

874
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,419
What I've got my team doing is
different
on audio, it's

875
00:47:56,419 --> 00:47:59,104
different on YouTube, it's
different on
LinkedIn, and I

876
00:47:59,104 --> 00:48:01,420
think there's value in that.
Mark, how do you
feel about

877
00:48:01,420 --> 00:48:02,530
that?
Because that's one of the

878
00:48:02,530 --> 00:48:05,080
questions that I saw
in the
mailbag as we were preparing for

879
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,290
today's show.
Marc Ronick: Look, it's this


880
00:48:07,298 --> 00:48:10,843
comes down to a capacity thing.
How much capacity do you have as

881
00:48:10,843 --> 00:48:13,279

a creator to do all these
different thumbnails?

882
00:48:13,279 --> 00:48:18,525
Ralph has
the advantage of
being able to farm it out to a

883
00:48:18,525 --> 00:48:20,863
team, and some
of us don't,
right?

884
00:48:20,863 --> 00:48:24,796
And some of us do have the
advantage if we
so choose to

885
00:48:24,796 --> 00:48:28,959
use something like AI to get us
closer to somebody
like Ralph,

886
00:48:28,959 --> 00:48:33,111
who's paying for all of those
services, but I guess
my point

887
00:48:33,111 --> 00:48:37,974
is, if you can do it, I think it
can only help, but if
you

888
00:48:37,974 --> 00:48:42,355
can't do it, it's not like
you're going to post an episode

889
00:48:42,355 --> 00:48:46,282
without an episode cover image,
and, and have no image at all.


890
00:48:46,290 --> 00:48:49,978
At the very least, you're going
to, it's going to default to


891
00:48:49,986 --> 00:48:52,756
your series image, and I'm okay
with that.

892
00:48:52,756 --> 00:48:56,495
But if you can do it,
create
the individual episode images,

893
00:48:56,495 --> 00:49:00,565
because those pop up on
the
player itself, it does add

894
00:49:00,565 --> 00:49:02,971
something to it.
I just
encourage you to make

895
00:49:02,971 --> 00:49:07,531
sure it has a similar brand, a
similar
feel as your series

896
00:49:07,531 --> 00:49:10,895
cover art, so that people can
really
identify your stuff,

897
00:49:10,895 --> 00:49:15,535
your content when they're
finding it
in various places.

898
00:49:15,535 --> 00:49:16,675
Ralph Estep Jr.: And I just want

to throw in there about

899
00:49:16,675 --> 00:49:19,645
branding, because I've written

some, I've wrote some notes for

900
00:49:19,645 --> 00:49:21,604
today.
I think the thing of most


901
00:49:21,612 --> 00:49:24,445
podcasters under brand their
stuff early, and you really


902
00:49:24,453 --> 00:49:27,094
regret that later.
You know, it's really easier at

903
00:49:27,094 --> 00:49:29,569
the front
end to build that
brand from the beginning, from

904
00:49:29,569 --> 00:49:31,587
day one, because
if you're
not, you're trying to shoehorn

905
00:49:31,587 --> 00:49:34,408
this thing after the
fact.
I think you have to somewhat be

906
00:49:34,408 --> 00:49:36,853
intentional about
that.
And Mark, the reason I brought

907
00:49:36,853 --> 00:49:39,728
that up is we were
talking
about AI, that's a great use for

908
00:49:39,728 --> 00:49:43,114
AI, actually, because
most of
the AI tools, you can say, "Can

909
00:49:43,114 --> 00:49:46,255
you repurpose this?

Can you change the aspect ratio?

910
00:49:46,255 --> 00:49:48,157
Can you change it around a

little bit?

911
00:49:48,157 --> 00:49:50,977
That doesn't take a lot of time.
It doesn't take a
big team.

912
00:49:50,977 --> 00:49:53,905
That's a great use for AI.
Once you get that image you


913
00:49:53,913 --> 00:49:55,680
like, then you can have AI
taken.

914
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:56,607
Like, I'll give you an

example.

915
00:49:56,607 --> 00:49:58,975
Like, I do a lot of the
promotions for when we have


916
00:49:58,983 --> 00:50:02,240
guests on the show.
I just put that into AI, to be

917
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:03,993
blunt.
I
say, here's the guest

918
00:50:03,993 --> 00:50:06,076
picture, here's our logo I want
you to
use, here's what we're

919
00:50:06,076 --> 00:50:08,640
going to talk about on the show,
and tag
your it.

920
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,040
And AI does a really good job of
putting that
together, so use

921
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:13,648
that tool.
It doesn't cost too much if

922
00:50:13,648 --> 00:50:16,150
you're
already paying for the
AI in the first place.

923
00:50:16,150 --> 00:50:17,405
Marc Ronick: Great point, Ralph.



924
00:50:17,413 --> 00:50:21,448
Thank you very much for that.
Yeah, so I think here's where


925
00:50:21,456 --> 00:50:23,956
we're landing after this whole
conversation.

926
00:50:23,956 --> 00:50:27,802
I think that your
artwork
doesn't need to explain every

927
00:50:27,802 --> 00:50:31,195
detail of your show, but
it
should probably do a few things

928
00:50:31,195 --> 00:50:33,595
very well, right?
It
should be readable when

929
00:50:33,595 --> 00:50:37,864
it's small, it should give the
right
first impression, it

930
00:50:37,864 --> 00:50:42,096
should match the tone of your
show, it
should help people

931
00:50:42,096 --> 00:50:45,592
understand whether this show is
for them in
the first place,

932
00:50:45,592 --> 00:50:49,839
and it should work across the
places where
people actually

933
00:50:49,839 --> 00:50:53,430
discover you.
Again, I say should work across

934
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:56,914
the places where people
actually discover you, and like

935
00:50:56,914 --> 00:51:01,150
I just
said a moment ago, do
what you can do, what you are,

936
00:51:01,150 --> 00:51:04,955
what you
financially can do,
what you can, what you have the

937
00:51:04,955 --> 00:51:08,027
physical
capacity to do.
And for video platforms,

938
00:51:08,027 --> 00:51:11,200
especially YouTube
and
Spotify, we probably need to

939
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,284
think more intentionally about

horizontal thumbnails.

940
00:51:14,284 --> 00:51:20,097
A square podcast cover and a 16
by nine
video thumbnail have

941
00:51:20,097 --> 00:51:25,057
very different jobs, the square
image
it represents the show.

942
00:51:25,057 --> 00:51:27,571
The horizontal thumbnail often
sells
the episode.

943
00:51:27,571 --> 00:51:31,615
It's more like that billboard
that Ralph was talking
about.

944
00:51:31,615 --> 00:51:36,180
So that's where I land here, and
I appreciate
everybody's

945
00:51:36,180 --> 00:51:38,790
different insights on and
experiences with this.

946
00:51:38,790 --> 00:51:42,225
I
think it's really helpful,
and that's the beauty of this

947
00:51:42,225 --> 00:51:44,200
show.

So, listen, a reminder to you

948
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,564
that we are not back tomorrow.

Tomorrow is Friday.

949
00:51:47,564 --> 00:51:52,017
New summer schedule is no
Fridays, no
Mondays, but every

950
00:51:52,017 --> 00:51:53,821
Tuesday, Wednesday, and
Thursday.

951
00:51:53,821 --> 00:51:56,830
DR. is
appreciating the extra
sleep-in time.

952
00:51:56,830 --> 00:52:00,130
She was just gesturing
that
over here on the video.

953
00:52:00,130 --> 00:52:02,987
So, come join us Tuesday, 7am
eight.


954
00:52:02,995 --> 00:52:07,185
I do it every day this week, 8am
Eastern time.

955
00:52:07,185 --> 00:52:09,565
Are you looking
for a button
to press around?

956
00:52:11,370 --> 00:52:14,958
Jingle: Did I say that out loud?
Marc Ronick: So come join us,


957
00:52:14,966 --> 00:52:17,300
and you can do that at
Podcasting Morning show.com/join

958
00:52:17,300 --> 00:52:20,253

us.
And don't worry, the evaluation

959
00:52:20,253 --> 00:52:23,715
series is coming
back.
The spotlight series is coming

960
00:52:23,715 --> 00:52:27,078
back, and I'm going to
look
for ways to incorporate Money

961
00:52:27,078 --> 00:52:30,050
Mondays again, and also,
of
course, Friday wins from the

962
00:52:30,140 --> 00:52:31,238
week, since we don't have

Fridays.

963
00:52:31,238 --> 00:52:33,540
I still want to celebrate with
everybody, so I'm
going to

964
00:52:33,540 --> 00:52:37,190
figure out a way that we can
incorporate all that in.


965
00:52:37,198 --> 00:52:41,030
And until Tuesday, make it a
great weekend, everybody.

966
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:41,870
Take
care.