538. Why Most Podcasts Never Grow (and What Actually Works)

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Marc Ronick: Good morning,

podcasters.

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Today is Tuesday, june 16, 2026
and today podcast
audience

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growth, community building, and
content that
converse with

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podcast Hall of Famer Arielle
Nessenblatt,
sharing the

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strategies creators can use to
attract listeners and
keep

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them coming back.
It's been a while, so if you're

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listening
live on Clubhouse,
hit the share button, top right

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00:00:30,660 --> 00:00:33,573
hand side of
the screen, and
share it however Clubhouse lets

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you.
And if
you're catching this

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00:00:35,152 --> 00:00:37,735
via podcast, YouTube, etc.
please
share this with a

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00:00:37,735 --> 00:00:40,719
fellow podcaster.
And now, give us
about 30

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seconds and we'll get things
rolling.

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Thanks for being
here.
The podcasting morning chat is

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powered by Ironick
Media,
helping podcasters launch,

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polish, and grow great
shows,
and by Content Creators

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00:01:01,410 --> 00:01:04,560
Accountant, helping creators

build real business behind their

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content.
Good morning again,
podcasting

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morning show.
Thank you so much for being

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here.
I am
your host, Mark Ronick,

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and currently on stage with me,
we've got a whole mess of

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people here.
We have DR. Fay, Sid
Meadows,

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Ralph Eastep, we have Phil
Better, BC Babbles, and I


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think that's all of the usual
cast and crew, I'm looking in


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multiple places here, so please
forgive me if.. oh, and Jason


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Circon, of course, is here.
Sorry, Jason, I was looking at


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the clubhouse screen and not at
the Riverside screen.

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Good to
have you here, Jason.
Also, Jason: thanks, Mark.

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Marc Ronick: Sorry, Jason.
We
also have, of course, our

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guest, Arielle Nissenblatt, here
as
well.

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Good morning to you, Arielle.
We will give you an
official

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welcome here in just a moment.
First, I do have to say
thank

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you, especially to Ralph Estep
for holding down the fort


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while I was away last week,
volunteering at Camp Footprint,

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a camp that is hosted by the
CMTA Charcot Marie Tooth


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Association.
It's a camp for kids with the

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disease CMT, and,
man, what a
week.

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And I will not share all the
details today,
because, like

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I've said multiple times now, we
have a guest
today, so I'm not

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gonna take the spotlight away,
but I will just
tell you, I

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had a fantastic time.
It is one of the most.. it


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probably is the most rewarding
thing that I do all year long to

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see these kids be able to be
kids for a week without


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thinking, having to think about
who's looking at them, you know,

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who's making fun of them, etc.
They're all there together in it

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together, and it is one of the
most authentic experiences I


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think I've ever been a part of.
So, I will share more with you,

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maybe tomorrow, before we dive
into the news.

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But first, let's
dive into
this show today, and Ralph, why

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don't you go ahead
and
introduce officially our guest,

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Arielle.
Absolutely, good morning


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everybody.
You know, Arielle Nissenblatt is

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a content
strategist, she's a
community builder, and an event

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facilitator based in Brooklyn,
New York.

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She founded Ear Buds
Podcast,
collected one of the

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podcasting's longest running

recommendation newsletters, and

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well, it depends.
Now, that's an
event and

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education company for podcasters
and digital creators.


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Arielle hosts Trailer Park, the
podcast trailer podcast, and


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daily tips that may or not, may
or may not help you.

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She serves
on the board of
governors of the Podcast

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Academy, and here's the
best
part: she was inducted into the

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Podcast Hall of Fame in 2026

She's also a licensed New York

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City tour guide and founder of

Mystery Tours.

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Through speaking, writing,
consulting, and events,


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Arielle helps creators and media
organizations grow audiences and

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build stronger communities.
So, Arielle, let me be the first

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to
welcome you officially to
the show.

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And thank you so much for

joining us.

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Arielle Nissenblatt: Thank you

so much for having me.

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I'm honored to be here.
Happy
morning.

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This is so nice, a morning show.
And also, I just
wanted to say

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that I really appreciate all
reading in my
entire bio.

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That was lovely.
It reminded me of a few things

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that
I have to do, Marc
Ronick: as in maybe update
a

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few things, Arielle Nissenblatt:
or like
host a tour, because

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it's been a while.
Marc Ronick: m Oh, okay, yeah,


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I'm really curious about that,
but I know, Ralph, you had a,


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you wanted to kick us off with
the first question.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: I did, Arielle,

and the first question I have

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for you is, I mentioned you were

recently inducted into the

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Podcast Hall of Fame.
What was
the reaction when you

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got the news to that?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Oh, thank


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you for asking.
Because mixed, mixed reaction.

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Number one, I
felt like, Who
am I to be receiving this award?

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Another
was imposter syndrome,
which I guess is related.

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Another is I'm
too young, this
is a curse.

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What am I going to do with the
rest
of my life?

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What do I have to look up to?
And then another one
was,

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okay, hell yeah, I have done a
lot of cool stuff, and
it's

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nice to, you know, be recognized
by your peers, and
then also

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by the people who are not in the
podcast space,
friends,

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family, LinkedIn connections
that are not
podcasters.

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I kept thinking maybe they'll
finally understand
that

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podcasts have made it because
I've made Marc Ronick: it, at

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least maybe
they'll take it a
little more seriously.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, and I

love your reaction when I asked

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if you join us on this show.

You're like, 'Hell yeah!

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And I was like, 'That's awesome.
I
love the energy.

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Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah,

that's who I am.

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Except I will, like, let me just
be
transparent.

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This microphone is not plugged
in, Marc Ronick: you know?

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I was
going to tell you that,
Arielle Nissenblatt: not


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working.
Marc Ronick: I was going to tell

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you that.
Yes, and it's okay, we can hear

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you pretty clearly, so
don't
worry about it.

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No big deal.
Arielle Nissenblatt: It's just I

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think it's because I plugged
it in afterwards, because my I

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have
limited USB-C ports over
here.

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This is a problem in podcasting.



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Yes, okay, Marc Ronick: yes, it
is.

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I Arielle Nissenblatt: need to
be
charging, I need to be

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charging.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and even when

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you get one of those, either
those dongles or those USB hubs,

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sometimes that doesn't work
well either.

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So, yeah, that is
absolutely a
challenge.

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I was Arielle Nissenblatt: gonna
say I
feel like it's me

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troubleshooting my tech, but let

me make it into a broader

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issue for the people who are
here
watching, listening.

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It is a problem.
It's a problem.

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It is.

We need better USB-C ports.

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Marc Ronick: I agree.
DR: Well, for me it's always a


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challenge to see how long I
could stay on Riverside before


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my video goes blank.
Marc Ronick: Yes, DR has lots of

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issues with that.
I DR: have one of those strips

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too
that has every single port
filled up.

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Marc Ronick: Yep.
All right, so
Arielle, you

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discovered podcasts in 2014 as a
listener, from what
I

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understand, and at what point
did you realize you wanted to


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build a whole career around
podcasting, not just listen to


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podcasts?
Arielle Nissenblatt: 2016 Marc

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Ronick: okay?
And what
happened in 2016

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Arielle Nissenblatt: there was a

move across country for me.

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I was living in Mississippi, my
first job out of college, and

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that's when I started listening
to podcasts, because my all my

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coworkers were listening to

cereal, and then whatever

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stemmed from cereal, true crime,

investigative reported shows,

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sometimes chat shows here and

there, and I became very

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interested in listening to

whatever was next, and I found

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that I was able to synthesize

information in a way that I

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hadn't been in reading or in

watching TV.

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I really was just able to get
the information and
deeply

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understand it in a way that I
hadn't been able to
before, so

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I felt smarter, I felt more
engaged, I felt more
able to

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participate in conversations.
It really boosted
my

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confidence when I became a
podcast listener, and when I


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moved to Los Angeles a few years
after that, I was stuck in the


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car a lot because of traffic,
and I continued listening to


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podcasts, but also to radio, and
I just became very interested in

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the whole ecosystem around it.
Radio, of course, has a lot


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longer of an ecosystem to
understand, and I started going

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to events that were put on by
89.3 KPCC, 89.9 KCRW, just very

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interested talking to people,
asking them about their careers,

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and at that time a lot of the
radio stations were getting into

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podcasts, making their own or
syndicating radio shows on


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podcast feeds, and this is
around the time that I said to


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myself, I don't want to work in
communications anymore at


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nonprofits because I hate it and
I'm bad at it, and what if I


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could find something that I
don't hate that I'm good at?

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And
it turns out the way my
brain works is as long as I love

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something I'm pretty good at
it.

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So I figured out that I wanted

to work in podcasting.

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I didn't have any experience?
I had
studied geography in

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college, so I didn't ever work
at the radio
station.

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I didn't work in marketing, I
didn't work in
communications,

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PR, nothing that was directly
related.

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So I kind
of had to figure out
my own way in, and I'll stop

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there, so that you can butt in.
Marc Ronick: Well, all right, so

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you found your way in, and
what was the first, I'll call

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it, gig
that you, that you
started as you started this

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professional
side of
podcasting.

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Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, so

the first gig that I really

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started occupying was one that I

made up for myself.

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I still run it.
You mentioned it, Ralph, in


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the intro.
The Ear Buds Podcast Collective

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is my weekly
newsletter that
I've been running since 2017 and

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I started
it because I didn't
have experience elsewhere, so

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it's
not that nobody would
hire me.

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I'm sure I could have gotten an
entry-level job somewhere,

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booking, you know, maybe doing

copywriting at a podcast agency,

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or marketing associate

marketing, or something like

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that.
While I was figuring all
that

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out, while I was applying to
jobs, I also started this


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newsletter, because I was
listening to a lot of podcasts,

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and I was talking to friends
who were listening to podcasts

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as
well, but they ultimately
were stuck.

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They were listening to
their
five favorite shows, and then

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when those were finished,
they
were like, what do I do next,

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and there's so many shows
out
there that they felt

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overwhelmed, and I felt

overwhelmed, and if I felt

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overwhelmed, that that's a

problem, because I'm already

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inserting myself as this podcast

person, but my thought was, if

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I have my five favorite shows,
you
have yours, your friend

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has theirs, on and on and on, we

could put out a weekly list of

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podcast recommendations, where

each week is essentially vetted

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by a different person, so it's

five episodes curated by

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somebody new every single week,
and I've been doing that every

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single week since february 13,

2017 so 10 years coming up, so

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we're gonna have a big party, so

save the date, and that was my

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official, quote unquote, first

job.

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Did it pay me right away?
Absolutely not.

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Did it take up a
lot of my
time?

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Absolutely.
Did it look really ugly at

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first?

Yeah.

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Was I sending it on Gmail?
Did I accidentally cc everybody

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one time, and that's when I
said I need to learn how to use

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00:11:39,015 --> 00:11:41,589
an
email service provider.
All of these things are true.

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My first
official, official
job, somebody else paying me to

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00:11:44,167 --> 00:11:45,579
do something.

Eventually, I did start running

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ads, but before I started

running ads, I was able to

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leverage the newsletter to go to

conferences and to get press

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passes to go places.
So that was
a really cool

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unlock that I figured out early
on.

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I started
working at a podcast
studio, actually, it was a

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00:12:03,641 --> 00:12:06,131
co-working
space in Los
Angeles that I really wanted to

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00:12:06,131 --> 00:12:08,709
have an office
at, but I
didn't want to pay to have an

216
00:12:08,709 --> 00:12:12,446
office there, so I
pitched the
concept of a podcast librarian.

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I wanted to be the
podcast
discussion facilitator at this

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co-working space, so I
said,
What if I curate a list for you

219
00:12:20,491 --> 00:12:23,743
guys, and every week,
all the
people who are interested in

220
00:12:23,743 --> 00:12:26,716
this co-working
space can come
together to discuss it, because

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theoretically, you've got all
these people working at this


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co-working space, they don't
just want to interact with their

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own co-workers, maybe they
want to interact with other

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people.

So that was the idea behind

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00:12:34,819 --> 00:12:36,409
this.
This co-working space that
I

226
00:12:36,409 --> 00:12:39,624
pitched the idea to was like, I
love the idea, can you build


227
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us a studio, though, because
ultimately they wanted to make


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money, and I said, yeah, even
though I had no idea what I was

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doing, so then I naturally
managed the studio for a year


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and a half.
Marc Ronick: So you helped them

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build the studio, you actually
set it all up, and then what


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they just like allowed you to
use that studio however you


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wanted, whenever you wanted,
Arielle Nissenblatt: pretty


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much, and they, you know, I was
in charge of figuring out what


235
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the pricing model was, and how
to bring people in, and what


236
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sound paneling to use, and
really like how we deliver the


237
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files, so that all of that was
very interesting and


238
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challenging, and when I
actually, I haven't said this


239
00:13:17,768 --> 00:13:20,426
out loud, because I haven't
thought about it in a while,


240
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it's the first time that I
started thinking about how the


241
00:13:23,826 --> 00:13:26,110
word producer means different
things to different people,


242
00:13:26,118 --> 00:13:28,714
because people would be like,
"Oh, do you have an engineer?

243
00:13:28,714 --> 00:13:29,988
Do
you have a producer on
site?

244
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And I'd be like, "Yes, and yes.


245
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Question mark, I don't know.
So this is a persistent issue in

246
00:13:35,366 --> 00:13:38,084

the podcast space.
It's a persistent issue in

247
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creator
spaces in general.
So that was interesting, but

248
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yes, they
allowed me to use
the space, and more so they

249
00:13:45,298 --> 00:13:47,250
allowed me to host
networking
events.

250
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So I had a lot of fun just
bringing friends
and friends

251
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of friends and people in the
podcast space
over.

252
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I hosted a festival one time
with 200 people or so, that


253
00:13:57,199 --> 00:13:59,118
was great.
I hosted a bunch of storytelling

254
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shows, where you
know, the
soft sell was their podcast

255
00:14:02,625 --> 00:14:04,830
about storytelling.

Subscribe to my newsletter, but

256
00:14:05,730 --> 00:14:09,060
overall, yeah, it was a great

way for me to meet more people

257
00:14:09,090 --> 00:14:11,730
in the podcast space, and to be
able to say, come on over.

258
00:14:12,330 --> 00:14:14,730
Marc Ronick: Yeah, yeah.
And I'm
gonna ask a question

259
00:14:14,730 --> 00:14:19,283
that I have a feeling may have
perked BC's
ears a bit.

260
00:14:19,283 --> 00:14:23,834
You mentioned how, when you got
into this, one of
the first

261
00:14:23,834 --> 00:14:26,710
opportunities was that you were
able to get like press
passes

262
00:14:26,710 --> 00:14:29,612
and get into different events
because of that, and I
know

263
00:14:29,612 --> 00:14:33,290
that's an area that BC has been
exploring and working on,
so

264
00:14:33,290 --> 00:14:36,470
I'm curious, and I think other
podcasters are curious how


265
00:14:36,478 --> 00:14:39,016
that works.
So I'm going to jump the line

266
00:14:39,016 --> 00:14:41,290
from all my other
questions
and go there first.

267
00:14:41,830 --> 00:14:45,850
How would a podcaster go about

getting press passes to some

268
00:14:45,940 --> 00:14:48,760
kind of major event?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, it's

269
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,583
a really great question.
And just for transparency's

270
00:14:50,583 --> 00:14:54,652
sake,
I've decided to remove
the mic that was not doing any.

271
00:14:54,652 --> 00:14:57,088
Okay,
fair.
Do I sound okay?

272
00:14:57,088 --> 00:15:00,342
You sound fine.
Yeah, just not like
beautiful,

273
00:15:00,342 --> 00:15:01,154
right?
Exactly.

274
00:15:01,154 --> 00:15:02,691
Okay.
Sorry about that.

275
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Yeah, so when
I started this
newsletter, I was, you know,

276
00:15:06,465 --> 00:15:09,375
making it week
after week, and
I was learning lessons here and

277
00:15:09,375 --> 00:15:13,038
there, and I
had a friend at
the time who ran a website for

278
00:15:13,038 --> 00:15:16,335
music festivals.

He would basically get emails

279
00:15:16,335 --> 00:15:18,645
saying, like, this music

festival is happening, here's

280
00:15:18,645 --> 00:15:21,435
some news from this music

festival, here's some new music

281
00:15:21,435 --> 00:15:25,395
that dropped, and then he would
report on it on his blog slash

282
00:15:25,395 --> 00:15:29,505
website that cataloged all of

these things, and every month or

283
00:15:29,505 --> 00:15:33,195
so he would go to a music

festival in California or

284
00:15:33,195 --> 00:15:36,390
beyond, and I would ask him,

like, how are you able to go to

285
00:15:36,390 --> 00:15:38,760
all these festivals, and he

said, well, I have a press pass,

286
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,760
and I said, What do you mean,

because I'd always heard that

287
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,010
word, I'd always heard press

pass before, and I had no idea

288
00:15:44,010 --> 00:15:46,450
what it meant.
And it turns out
it's just a

289
00:15:46,450 --> 00:15:49,749
free way for you to go if you
report on it, and I'm
putting

290
00:15:49,749 --> 00:15:52,320
"report on" in quotes, really.
You are reporting on it,
you

291
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,978
are there so that you can
experience it, so that you can


292
00:15:54,986 --> 00:15:58,167
write about it, or post about
it, or make a video about it, or

293
00:15:58,167 --> 00:16:01,085

whatever the press is.
But the idea is that the

294
00:16:01,085 --> 00:16:05,175
organizers of
the event trust
you and want you to get the

295
00:16:05,175 --> 00:16:08,099
message out about
this event
to their, to your audience, and

296
00:16:08,099 --> 00:16:11,331
so he was able to
go to all
these festivals and then write

297
00:16:11,331 --> 00:16:14,678
about it on the blog,
and I
said, What does that look like

298
00:16:14,678 --> 00:16:17,041
for podcasters?
Right at
that moment is when I

299
00:16:17,041 --> 00:16:19,376
found out about podcast
movement, which
was taking

300
00:16:19,376 --> 00:16:22,872
place in Anaheim that year, and
if it had been
somewhere else,

301
00:16:22,872 --> 00:16:26,385
I probably would not have been
able to go,
because I was able

302
00:16:26,385 --> 00:16:29,700
to drive, and at the time I was
not down to be
spending my own

303
00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:32,034
money flying somewhere to go to
a conference,
even if the

304
00:16:32,034 --> 00:16:35,790
conference was for free.
So I drove down to Anaheim


305
00:16:35,798 --> 00:16:40,026
with this press pass with a
dream and a backpack.

306
00:16:40,026 --> 00:16:45,117
I really
like, showed up, and
then I just was like going to

307
00:16:45,117 --> 00:16:49,203
every single
session, meeting
people whose names I had heard

308
00:16:49,203 --> 00:16:52,355
in credits,
and really
earnestly shaking hands and

309
00:16:52,355 --> 00:16:54,315
taking business cards
and
things like that.

310
00:16:54,315 --> 00:16:58,031
And let me tell you, the parking
at the
parking garage was $50

311
00:16:58,031 --> 00:17:01,399
a day, and you better believe I
was
like, is there a press

312
00:17:01,399 --> 00:17:06,372
pass for the parking garage?
It was not,
but yeah, I mean,

313
00:17:06,372 --> 00:17:09,498
just to bring it back to your
question, that's
how it worked

314
00:17:09,498 --> 00:17:12,609
for me, but it's going to be
different for each
type of

315
00:17:12,609 --> 00:17:15,768
podcaster, you know?
If you have a podcast and you


316
00:17:15,776 --> 00:17:19,395
podcast about podcasting, yeah,
maybe you can try to get press


317
00:17:19,403 --> 00:17:22,349
passes at different podcast and
media related conferences, but


318
00:17:22,358 --> 00:17:25,374
usually what you're going to
want to do is talk about what


319
00:17:25,382 --> 00:17:28,413
kind of coverage you're going to
do, so for example, Tribeca,


320
00:17:28,421 --> 00:17:31,880
which used to be Tribeca Film
Festival, now they call it


321
00:17:31,888 --> 00:17:34,785
Tribeca Festival because they
have podcasts and they have


322
00:17:34,793 --> 00:17:37,965
games and they have branded
content and all these different

323
00:17:37,965 --> 00:17:41,551
things, so Tribeca Festival now
has Tribeca podcast, Tribeca


324
00:17:41,559 --> 00:17:45,480
Audio, and the application
process for a press pass is


325
00:17:45,488 --> 00:17:48,219
pretty rigorous.
It's you have to talk about the

326
00:17:48,219 --> 00:17:51,105
stories that
you're interested
in covering and talk about the

327
00:17:51,105 --> 00:17:53,676
people that
you want to cover
and talk about the different

328
00:17:53,676 --> 00:17:57,138
sessions that you
have
outlined, and you're going to

329
00:17:57,138 --> 00:17:59,310
show up and you're going to

interview these people, and then

330
00:17:59,310 --> 00:18:00,892
what your coverage is going to

look like.

331
00:18:00,892 --> 00:18:03,268
So, if you get approved on that,
you get a
press pass, you get

332
00:18:03,268 --> 00:18:06,726
to go to as many events as you
want, and
then you're going to

333
00:18:06,726 --> 00:18:09,519
write about it afterwards.
So I'm still, I
still have to

334
00:18:09,519 --> 00:18:12,588
write it, just wrapped up
earlier this week, so
I still

335
00:18:12,588 --> 00:18:16,175
have to write my press, or write
my, you know, recap of
the

336
00:18:16,175 --> 00:18:19,929
event, but that's a really great
way for me to go to one of
the

337
00:18:19,929 --> 00:18:22,935
most amazing podcast festivals
ever, and learn about
all

338
00:18:22,935 --> 00:18:26,949
these new, new shows, or new
limited run series, and that


339
00:18:26,957 --> 00:18:31,383
that's really great, but if you
have a pod, admit that to who do

340
00:18:31,383 --> 00:18:35,371

you, yeah, is it so like part
of it is being a hustler and

341
00:18:35,371 --> 00:18:39,280
like
figuring out over time
who to submit it to, being in

342
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,835
the
social internet space, and
figuring out that this is the


343
00:18:43,843 --> 00:18:47,910
person who runs Tribeca Audio.
This is the person who does


344
00:18:47,918 --> 00:18:49,823
press passes for the general
festival.

345
00:18:49,823 --> 00:18:53,272
But, yeah, I mean,
truly, I
wish there was a better answer

346
00:18:53,272 --> 00:18:55,818
than just, like, who do I

submit a press pass to?

347
00:18:55,818 --> 00:18:59,007
But it really is like going onto
the
website, friending this

348
00:18:59,007 --> 00:19:01,171
person on LinkedIn, commenting
on some
of their stuff, but

349
00:19:01,171 --> 00:19:03,633
not in a way that's like,
"Hello, I would
like a press

350
00:19:03,633 --> 00:19:06,120
pass, but more genuinely giving
value over
time.

351
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:09,659
They see that you are somebody
that they want to be in
touch

352
00:19:09,659 --> 00:19:11,841
with, and then I'm not saying it
lands in your lap.

353
00:19:11,841 --> 00:19:14,840
I
work 10 years on all this
stuff, but yeah, it really takes

354
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,171
a
while.
And then, like the example that

355
00:19:17,171 --> 00:19:21,183
I often give is
like, if you
have a podcast about coffee and

356
00:19:21,183 --> 00:19:24,745
you want to go
to a big coffee
conference.

357
00:19:24,745 --> 00:19:28,110
If you pitch them or tell them
that
you're interested in a

358
00:19:28,110 --> 00:19:32,114
press pass, maybe you're going
to
record live podcast

359
00:19:32,114 --> 00:19:36,492
interviews on the on stage or
on, you know,
in a back room,

360
00:19:36,492 --> 00:19:39,508
and you're going to invite some
of their speakers
to join you.

361
00:19:39,508 --> 00:19:42,177
That's pretty valuable, right?
So, a lot of it
is like I

362
00:19:42,177 --> 00:19:44,673
said, hustling and kind of
finding your own way in.


363
00:19:44,681 --> 00:19:47,444
I recently saw that there was a
newsletter conference in New


364
00:19:47,452 --> 00:19:50,031
York, and I really wanted to go
because I've been writing


365
00:19:50,039 --> 00:19:52,533
newsletters for so long.
I love the newsletter space.

366
00:19:52,533 --> 00:19:55,947
The
tickets were like $1,500
for a one-day conference, and

367
00:19:55,947 --> 00:19:57,980
you
better believe I'm not
doing that.

368
00:19:57,980 --> 00:20:01,995
So, I applied for a press.

Past, they had an application on

369
00:20:01,995 --> 00:20:04,125
their website.
Sometimes they
will have that.

370
00:20:04,125 --> 00:20:07,858
Marc Ronick: So, I want to stay
on this topic for a moment.

371
00:20:07,858 --> 00:20:11,122
BC, I know you have a follow-up,
and
since I called you out,

372
00:20:11,122 --> 00:20:12,792
wouldn't be right to just blow
by that.


373
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,190
So, go ahead and ask your
follow-up, and then we'll keep


374
00:20:15,198 --> 00:20:16,690
things going.
BC Babbles: Thank you.

375
00:20:16,690 --> 00:20:19,480
And good
morning, everyone.
So, just a quick add on to that,

376
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,014
I'm
curious whether or not
your colleague that you

377
00:20:22,014 --> 00:20:24,684
mentioned, or
if you at any
point realized you had to, in

378
00:20:24,684 --> 00:20:27,018
addition to being
willing to
go through these rigorous

379
00:20:27,018 --> 00:20:31,852
application processes,
did you
have to also wait to have any

380
00:20:31,852 --> 00:20:37,020
sort of following
weight to be
able to throw around in any

381
00:20:37,020 --> 00:20:41,115
negotiations to
get those
kinds of press passes to these

382
00:20:41,115 --> 00:20:43,065
events Arielle Nissenblatt: I'm
usually
going, whether or not

383
00:20:43,065 --> 00:20:46,867
I get a press pass.
I want to go, and
sometimes

384
00:20:46,867 --> 00:20:50,010
I'm going as a speaker, which is
very helpful.


385
00:20:50,018 --> 00:20:52,971
So that started kicking in a few
years in.

386
00:20:52,971 --> 00:20:57,973
I went to Podcast
Movement
2017 in Anaheim, just press pass

387
00:20:57,973 --> 00:21:03,854
2018 press pass 2019
I started
speaking at the conference, and

388
00:21:03,854 --> 00:21:08,310
I had started
working for Cast
Box, a podcast listening app, so

389
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:11,700
they sent me.

But 2018 I flew myself, and I

390
00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:14,820
just decided it was something

that I wanted to spend the money

391
00:21:14,820 --> 00:21:16,248
on.
I think a lot of people,


392
00:21:16,256 --> 00:21:18,900
people ask me all the time, I go
to a lot of podcast conferences,

393
00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:21,200

I go to a lot of media
conferences, is it worth it?

394
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,643
Is
it worth it?
Some people even want to jump on

395
00:21:23,643 --> 00:21:26,948
a call and ask
me about the
ROI that they might see, and the

396
00:21:26,948 --> 00:21:30,539
only thing I can
say is it's,
it's what you make of it.

397
00:21:30,539 --> 00:21:33,367
And is it, are you going
to
see a return on your investment

398
00:21:33,367 --> 00:21:34,295
right away?
Probably
not.

399
00:21:34,295 --> 00:21:37,667
Is it going to take six months,
and you might not be
able to

400
00:21:37,667 --> 00:21:38,917
trace it back?
Probably not.

401
00:21:38,917 --> 00:21:41,535
But I think you have to be

okay with that.

402
00:21:41,535 --> 00:21:43,925
BC Babbles: Awesome, thank you.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, all right.


403
00:21:43,933 --> 00:21:46,830
And let's see, let's go.
Oh, DR. You had something, and

404
00:21:46,830 --> 00:21:50,448
then
we'll go to Ralph.
DR: Yeah, so can I get back to


405
00:21:50,456 --> 00:21:52,920
one of your favorite subjects,
your newsletter?

406
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,354
I've been a
subscriber for a
couple years, and I appreciate

407
00:21:57,354 --> 00:21:59,576
that.
So, I
like to ask the

408
00:21:59,576 --> 00:22:02,802
questions that the new
podcasters who are
listening

409
00:22:02,802 --> 00:22:06,270
would ask, and that is, how do
you get in?

410
00:22:06,270 --> 00:22:10,335
If I have
a podcast, how do I
get into your newsletter?

411
00:22:10,335 --> 00:22:14,989
You mentioned
something about
someone curating a list, is it

412
00:22:14,989 --> 00:22:18,608
anyone can curate
a list?
How, how do I get my podcast

413
00:22:18,608 --> 00:22:21,273
into your newsletter?
Arielle Nissenblatt: That's a


414
00:22:21,281 --> 00:22:24,795
great question.
Do you know how to get featured?

415
00:22:24,795 --> 00:22:26,385
DR: I do not.
Arielle Nissenblatt: You don't.

416
00:22:26,385 --> 00:22:28,425

Okay, so that is bad on my part,

417
00:22:28,425 --> 00:22:33,499
because in every single issue I
think that I'm making it

418
00:22:33,499 --> 00:22:36,146
obvious that each week is
curated by a
different person.

419
00:22:36,146 --> 00:22:39,708
Anyone can curate a list.
I have the
curation form

420
00:22:39,708 --> 00:22:43,080
linked in each issue of the
newsletter, I have
it at the

421
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,178
top of my website.
I think I have it.

422
00:22:45,178 --> 00:22:47,862
I think I've
made it so clear,
but, but you're right, that

423
00:22:47,862 --> 00:22:50,195
there's
definitely a messaging
problem here, because a lot of

424
00:22:50,195 --> 00:22:52,857
people, a
lot of people still
email me, and they're like,

425
00:22:52,857 --> 00:22:54,915
"Hey, love the
newsletter,
loved this issue.

426
00:22:54,915 --> 00:22:56,577
Sometimes they'll reply to the

most recent issue.

427
00:22:56,577 --> 00:22:59,247
How do I get featured?
And I'm like, it's
literally

428
00:22:59,247 --> 00:23:02,685
right there, and, like, look,
I'm guilty of this
too, where,

429
00:23:02,685 --> 00:23:07,510
like, I don't read, DR: so I
would have to get
someone to

430
00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:11,730
curate to know in the curation,
Arielle Nissenblatt: and you can

431
00:23:11,730 --> 00:23:12,840

select one of your own
episodes.

432
00:23:13,230 --> 00:23:14,787
DR: Oh, I see.
Okay, and that Arielle

433
00:23:14,787 --> 00:23:16,024
Nissenblatt: is in the

submission form.

434
00:23:16,024 --> 00:23:18,375
So, DR: okay, Arielle
Nissenblatt: if another
thing

435
00:23:18,375 --> 00:23:22,073
that happens is that people, if
they find the
submission form,

436
00:23:22,073 --> 00:23:25,447
it's like it's work to put
together the list,
right?

437
00:23:25,447 --> 00:23:29,082
Because I'm not just asking for
you to drop five
links and

438
00:23:29,082 --> 00:23:31,835
that's it.
You also need to write two to

439
00:23:31,835 --> 00:23:33,980
three
sentences about each
episode that you've selected,

440
00:23:33,980 --> 00:23:36,659
and I
don't want you to copy
paste it from the description,

441
00:23:36,659 --> 00:23:41,195
and I want
there to be a
thoughtfully curated list that

442
00:23:41,195 --> 00:23:44,758
comes together
that naturally
fits your episode into it.

443
00:23:44,758 --> 00:23:48,358
Okay, sometimes I'll
get a
submission form that is five

444
00:23:48,358 --> 00:23:51,885
episodes of that person's
own
show, and I reply, and I'm like,

445
00:23:51,885 --> 00:23:54,324
"Hey, did you read any of
the
directions?

446
00:23:54,324 --> 00:23:58,789
So it is very easy to find ways
to get your
show featured, not

447
00:23:58,789 --> 00:24:02,802
just in my newsletter, but in
others, but
you need to be

448
00:24:02,802 --> 00:24:07,353
willing to look and read and see
what they have
featured in the

449
00:24:07,353 --> 00:24:10,625
past, or see what types of
content they like
to put out

450
00:24:10,625 --> 00:24:13,680
there, and see if you fit into
that, or if you might
diverge,

451
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,638
but in a way that they're
interested in, and I
think

452
00:24:16,638 --> 00:24:21,100
what a lot of people don't do is
give it the time to figure
out

453
00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:24,365
how they can plug in.
Instead, they're like, ah, I


454
00:24:24,373 --> 00:24:26,560
can't get featured because I'm
an Indeed podcaster, or because

455
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,460
of this, or because of that.
Yes, you can.

456
00:24:29,419 --> 00:24:33,739
DR: And is there a cost to the

person who's totally free?

457
00:24:33,739 --> 00:24:36,697
Okay, great.
I would never.. we should


458
00:24:36,705 --> 00:24:38,488
submit.
I mean, Mark, I would Arielle

459
00:24:38,488 --> 00:24:40,360
Nissenblatt: never..

there are ways for you to pay to

460
00:24:40,420 --> 00:24:43,090
get featured in the newsletter,
but the main thing that each

461
00:24:43,180 --> 00:24:44,880
week is curated by a different

person.

462
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,845
Anyone curated a list is free,
will always be free.

463
00:24:47,845 --> 00:24:51,986
I've
now added a sixth episode
slot, so you can pay for that if

464
00:24:51,986 --> 00:24:54,133
you
want.
If you're like, so, for example,

465
00:24:54,133 --> 00:24:58,295
I'm making the next
five
issues of the newsletter, the

466
00:24:58,295 --> 00:25:00,888
topics of them.
That are
upcoming public, so

467
00:25:00,888 --> 00:25:03,688
now you can see that in two
weeks it's going
to be a

468
00:25:03,688 --> 00:25:05,976
history theme, in three weeks
it's going to be politics,
in

469
00:25:05,976 --> 00:25:07,727
four weeks it's going to be
sports.

470
00:25:07,727 --> 00:25:11,137
So, if you have a show
related
to those or an episode related

471
00:25:11,137 --> 00:25:14,867
to those, you can pay to
be
featured, or if you support me

472
00:25:14,867 --> 00:25:19,350
on Patreon for like at the
$10
per month level, then you can

473
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:21,773
pitch for free.
So, great,
there's a lot of

474
00:25:21,773 --> 00:25:24,518
ways to get featured for free.
I also have a
community

475
00:25:24,518 --> 00:25:26,780
submission form, where, like, if
you have news,
if it's like

476
00:25:26,780 --> 00:25:30,008
you're a 100th episode, or
Jason, if you
actually, all of

477
00:25:30,008 --> 00:25:32,951
you, if there's a podcasting
conference coming
up, then you

478
00:25:32,951 --> 00:25:35,840
can share the news there, or if
you've hit a
milestone

479
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,458
subscriber number, I'll feature
that in the
community notes

480
00:25:38,458 --> 00:25:40,592
section.
And then I also write another


481
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,038
newsletter called Podcast Plunge
that goes out on Mondays, that's

482
00:25:44,038 --> 00:25:47,255

more of an industry news.
So, all of the press releases

483
00:25:47,255 --> 00:25:50,485
that
I've received over the
past week, I reproduce them, the

484
00:25:50,485 --> 00:25:53,581

headline and the first
paragraph in that newsletter, so

485
00:25:53,581 --> 00:25:55,975
that
people can keep up with
what's going on there.

486
00:25:55,975 --> 00:25:58,053
And if you send
me a press
release, you can get featured

487
00:25:58,053 --> 00:26:00,497
there, that's free.
DR: Great, and Arielle

488
00:26:00,497 --> 00:26:02,585
Nissenblatt: all of my
stuff
that we're immunity curated.

489
00:26:02,585 --> 00:26:07,250
Sorry, DR: I assume we have
links to,
yeah, you know, Marc

490
00:26:07,250 --> 00:26:10,380
Ronick: I was gonna say
that,
you know, bad host smacking my

491
00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:13,218
hand right now,
because I
don't have, I mean, I have your

492
00:26:13,218 --> 00:26:16,310
main website, which is
just
your name, right, Arielle

493
00:26:16,340 --> 00:26:20,900
nissenblatt.com but is there

what's the best link to share

494
00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:23,075
with our community.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Oh, I mean,

495
00:26:23,075 --> 00:26:25,096

I need to get my, my S word
together.

496
00:26:25,096 --> 00:26:26,643
May I curse?
This
feels like radio.

497
00:26:26,643 --> 00:26:28,450
I can't figure out, Marc Ronick:
and you can.

498
00:26:28,450 --> 00:26:30,263
It's
okay.
We'll always bleep it if we feel

499
00:26:30,263 --> 00:26:31,877
like we have.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, I


500
00:26:31,885 --> 00:26:33,164
really need to get it all
together.

501
00:26:33,164 --> 00:26:36,845
I, the website is like
the
closest approximation to the

502
00:26:36,845 --> 00:26:41,015
things, but may I say, Wix is

not the easiest to get in there

503
00:26:41,015 --> 00:26:43,399
and edit, Marc Ronick: agree, so
Arielle Nissenblatt: that's why

504
00:26:43,399 --> 00:26:46,560
that website is lagging.
I would say LinkedIn is where I

505
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,440
post all
my stuff.
Marc Ronick: Okay, cool.

506
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,198
Here's
what I want to do.
We have lots of people wanting

507
00:26:51,198 --> 00:26:54,635
to ask
questions, so I know
Sid wants to ask a question, and

508
00:26:54,635 --> 00:26:58,256
we're
going to go to him next,
and I want to also go to Jason

509
00:26:58,256 --> 00:27:01,250
to see
if he has any
questions, because you guys just

510
00:27:01,250 --> 00:27:05,185
had a great
interview on his
podcast, so I want to see if he

511
00:27:05,185 --> 00:27:07,686
has maybe
either any
follow-ups from that episode or

512
00:27:07,686 --> 00:27:09,299
maybe just from this

conversation.

513
00:27:09,299 --> 00:27:11,819
So, we'll, I'll come to you in a
second.

514
00:27:11,819 --> 00:27:13,625
Jason
Sid, good morning to
you, sir.

515
00:27:13,625 --> 00:27:15,665
Did you have something for

Arielle?

516
00:27:15,695 --> 00:27:16,795
Sid Meadows: Good morning, Mark.



517
00:27:16,803 --> 00:27:17,950
Good morning, everybody.
Welcome back.

518
00:27:17,950 --> 00:27:20,150
Thanks.
I had a comment to
make, but

519
00:27:20,150 --> 00:27:21,953
we've already passed through
that, so which is fine.


520
00:27:21,961 --> 00:27:23,795
No reason to go backwards.
You can keep moving forward.

521
00:27:23,885 --> 00:27:25,705
Marc Ronick: Okay.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Oh no,


522
00:27:25,713 --> 00:27:27,597
bring it.
Marc Ronick: Bring it.

523
00:27:27,597 --> 00:27:29,354
Sid,
Arielle's requesting.
Sid Meadows: Okay.

524
00:27:29,354 --> 00:27:31,362
Good morning,
Arielle.
I just was gonna make the

525
00:27:31,362 --> 00:27:34,730
comment about the press pass

that, and I, you did actually

526
00:27:34,730 --> 00:27:37,382
say it to Arielle.
If you're
interested in going

527
00:27:37,382 --> 00:27:40,790
to a specific conference or

convention, typically that

528
00:27:40,790 --> 00:27:44,900
website will have an area

specifically for press, and you

529
00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:47,630
can apply and fill out the

information, and get the press

530
00:27:47,630 --> 00:27:49,450
pass.
And I think it's important
for

531
00:27:49,450 --> 00:27:52,472
us all to remember that, whether
you call yourself or
not,

532
00:27:52,472 --> 00:27:55,375
because you're creating content
and sharing as a
podcaster,

533
00:27:55,375 --> 00:27:58,930
you are classified as a
journalist, and you know, so


534
00:27:58,938 --> 00:28:02,243
that's really the position I
would take when applying for a


535
00:28:02,251 --> 00:28:05,525
press pass, it does give you
some inside access and stuff,


536
00:28:05,533 --> 00:28:08,143
depending on the conference
you're going to, but you know,


537
00:28:08,151 --> 00:28:10,667
just go with the, I love the
hustle aspect you mentioned,


538
00:28:10,675 --> 00:28:13,763
Arielle, but just go onto the
events website and you'll find a

539
00:28:13,763 --> 00:28:16,325

press area that's going to
have an application for you to

540
00:28:16,325 --> 00:28:19,316
fill
out to get a pass.
Arielle Nissenblatt: The reason

541
00:28:19,316 --> 00:28:22,919
I didn't say that exactly is
because sometimes conferences


542
00:28:22,927 --> 00:28:26,918
don't have everything, like Marc
Ronick: admittedly
empowered

543
00:28:26,918 --> 00:28:29,496
podcasting does not.
Yeah, Arielle Nissenblatt:

544
00:28:29,496 --> 00:28:32,076
right.
So
it's like, if you are a

545
00:28:32,076 --> 00:28:34,588
legit, I mean, not that
empowered
podcasting is not

546
00:28:34,588 --> 00:28:36,220
legit.
If you've been around for a

547
00:28:36,220 --> 00:28:38,886
while
and you know all of the
different scenarios, people have

548
00:28:38,886 --> 00:28:41,670

emailed you about absolutely
everything, you know, then you


549
00:28:41,678 --> 00:28:44,285
have a reaction to that.
Absolutely everything, but I


550
00:28:44,293 --> 00:28:46,865
think when you're getting
started up, you might not have


551
00:28:46,873 --> 00:28:50,690
all that set up, so that's where
the hustle, that's where the


552
00:28:50,698 --> 00:28:52,874
what's the grind comes into
play.

553
00:28:52,874 --> 00:28:55,355
And I think even then,
maybe
you're classified as a

554
00:28:55,355 --> 00:28:57,377
journalist.
I don't necessarily
think all

555
00:28:57,377 --> 00:28:59,987
podcasters should be classified
as journalists, and
there are

556
00:28:59,987 --> 00:29:01,271
podcasters that have said as
much.

557
00:29:01,271 --> 00:29:03,162
There are a lot of
podcasters
who have said as much.

558
00:29:03,162 --> 00:29:07,040
All this to say, I think
even
if you have a show, even if

559
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,200
there is a press, you know,

application form, you still

560
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,050
might need to prove yourself,

you still might need to hustle.

561
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:15,470
Marc Ronick: Well, let's,

speaking of empowered

562
00:29:15,470 --> 00:29:18,650
podcasting, let's go to my

business partner, Jason Circon,

563
00:29:18,650 --> 00:29:21,890
and yeah, Jason, any questions

for Arielle.

564
00:29:21,980 --> 00:29:25,250
Jason: Yeah, you were saying

about our episode of my show

565
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:27,860
that comes out next, not this

coming Thursday, but the next

566
00:29:27,890 --> 00:29:29,480
Thursday.
So, I don't want to
bury the

567
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,560
lead with that.
I want everyone to go listen to

568
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,991
that
episode, because it was
just an hour-long master class

569
00:29:34,991 --> 00:29:39,508
on, I
guess, well, absolutely
on newsletter strategy, but I

570
00:29:39,508 --> 00:29:44,030
think
it was also a slight
masterclass on staying on track,

571
00:29:44,030 --> 00:29:47,752
we were
trying, like, because
we both would veer and then

572
00:29:47,752 --> 00:29:49,930
catch
ourselves, like, wait a
minute, we're not here to talk

573
00:29:49,930 --> 00:29:52,363
about
this, because the idea
was to keep the conversation

574
00:29:52,363 --> 00:29:56,659
focused,
but one question I
had about the press pass, or

575
00:29:56,659 --> 00:29:59,945
just the press
aura of going
to these events used.

576
00:29:59,945 --> 00:30:03,788
Started this years ago,
and
now in 2026 we know the event

577
00:30:03,788 --> 00:30:07,906
space has evolved.
Are
they asking more now of

578
00:30:07,906 --> 00:30:12,012
what you do or what you would do
in order
to obtain that pass,

579
00:30:12,012 --> 00:30:15,570
or is it still status quo from
your
previous experience?

580
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:18,819
Arielle Nissenblatt: You know, I

unfortunately, I know I've

581
00:30:18,819 --> 00:30:21,962
been talking about press passes
this
whole time, I would say

582
00:30:21,962 --> 00:30:25,283
I'm not the best person to ask,
because
I'm not strictly

583
00:30:25,283 --> 00:30:27,743
press.
I go to a lot of podcast

584
00:30:27,743 --> 00:30:31,684
conferences as
a speaker, and
I also cover it as press, so it

585
00:30:31,684 --> 00:30:35,630
is not strictly
- it is not my
only obligation to cover these

586
00:30:35,630 --> 00:30:37,940
events.
I'm also
there to speak on

587
00:30:37,940 --> 00:30:40,936
stage, so have I heard from
other people, and I
would say

588
00:30:40,936 --> 00:30:43,762
it's also very much dependent on
the conference, as
you

589
00:30:43,762 --> 00:30:45,376
mentioned at the beginning,
Ralph.

590
00:30:45,376 --> 00:30:47,580
I run a company called
Well,
it depends.

591
00:30:47,580 --> 00:30:50,323
It's my favorite phrase, I say
it all
the time, because

592
00:30:50,323 --> 00:30:53,221
absolutely everything is
dependent on
something else.

593
00:30:53,221 --> 00:30:57,002
Yeah, and yeah, I mean it's
really going to be a
case by

594
00:30:57,002 --> 00:31:00,055
case basis.
Like Tribeca was a pretty

595
00:31:00,055 --> 00:31:03,660
rigorous process,
podcast
movement, if I remember

596
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,562
correctly, is less so.
Was less
so.

597
00:31:05,562 --> 00:31:08,675
I don't know how things have
changed, but I think it really


598
00:31:08,683 --> 00:31:10,670
depends on the type of
conference and the


599
00:31:10,678 --> 00:31:12,090
infrastructure that they have in
place.

600
00:31:12,990 --> 00:31:15,300
Jason: I asked because of my

previous life, when I was

601
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,670
working in the beer world, we

had done some event planning,

602
00:31:17,730 --> 00:31:20,939
and there were people that would

just literally start a blog

603
00:31:20,939 --> 00:31:23,880
that had, like, maybe one post
on it,
and then they'd submit,

604
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,450
'Hey, I write a blog, I'd like
to come
and cover on.

605
00:31:26,450 --> 00:31:27,630
Oh, really?
A blog?

606
00:31:27,630 --> 00:31:32,780
Like, well, this was back
in
2016 so yeah, that was hip.

607
00:31:33,260 --> 00:31:35,428
No, I mean, Arielle Nissenblatt:
like, oh,
you as the

608
00:31:35,428 --> 00:31:38,087
respondent, you're like, sick.
A blog, okay?

609
00:31:38,087 --> 00:31:41,382
Tell
us about Marc Ronick: it.
Yeah, Ralph Estep Jr.: Arielle,

610
00:31:41,382 --> 00:31:43,765
I
wanted to get into a
discussion now about one of the

611
00:31:43,765 --> 00:31:46,386
reasons I
had you on the show,
is to talk about audience

612
00:31:46,386 --> 00:31:49,500
growth, and
you've been doing
this for a while now, you've

613
00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:52,031
been helping
people find
listeners and help listeners

614
00:31:52,031 --> 00:31:53,938
find podcasts.
What's
the biggest

615
00:31:53,938 --> 00:31:56,586
misconception that you see
podcasters have about
audience

616
00:31:56,586 --> 00:31:58,939
growth right now?
Because I think that's one of


617
00:31:58,947 --> 00:32:01,440
the reasons a lot of people are
joining us today?

618
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,420
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, that
there's one thing that you can

619
00:32:03,450 --> 00:32:06,420
do that'll rocket your show to

the moon, and I'm sure you hear

620
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,225
that all the time.
I'm sorry for
that cop-out

621
00:32:09,225 --> 00:32:12,885
answer, but nothing pisses me
off more than when
people say,

622
00:32:12,885 --> 00:32:16,194
okay, but what really is a good
download
number, and I'll be

623
00:32:16,194 --> 00:32:18,152
like, say it with me, it
depends.

624
00:32:18,152 --> 00:32:21,320
And then,
oh, what is.. but
what does it depend on?

625
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,876
Many different
factors that I
need to intimately know about

626
00:32:23,876 --> 00:32:27,594
your show
in order to tell you
why you may or may not be

627
00:32:27,594 --> 00:32:29,734
growing.
I'll say
I'm currently

628
00:32:29,734 --> 00:32:33,494
mentoring four people for an
event or for an
organization

629
00:32:33,494 --> 00:32:37,172
called the Association for
Independence and
Radio Air

630
00:32:37,172 --> 00:32:41,724
Media, and what I find is that
it feels like they're
looking

631
00:32:41,724 --> 00:32:44,230
for permission.
It feels like they, whatever I

632
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:47,350
tell them,
even though I think
I'm giving them the

633
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:50,976
infrastructure to grow
their
own show, I'm telling them about

634
00:32:50,976 --> 00:32:54,370
the philosophies behind

marketing and audience

635
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,460
development and audience

engagement, and I'm giving them

636
00:32:57,610 --> 00:33:00,210
practical things that I've tried

that have worked, that clients

637
00:33:00,210 --> 00:33:03,180
have tried that have worked and
I'm giving them resources and

638
00:33:03,210 --> 00:33:06,930
tools and pitch forms and email
addresses to journalists that

639
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,500
they can pitch to and best

practices for pitching to apps

640
00:33:10,830 --> 00:33:15,750
even then the question is okay

but what should I do first or

641
00:33:16,590 --> 00:33:20,550
how long should my pitch letter
be or and the answer is always

642
00:33:20,610 --> 00:33:23,240
it depends, and it's all about

guessing and checking, but more

643
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,920
so it's about figuring out

what's right for you at that

644
00:33:28,010 --> 00:33:30,470
time, or what's right for the

journalist that you're pitching

645
00:33:30,530 --> 00:33:32,840
to, or what's right for the app
that you're pitching to.

646
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,820
So many different factors go
into this,
and I think a lot

647
00:33:35,820 --> 00:33:38,948
of people, what it feels like to
me, the
misconception is that

648
00:33:38,948 --> 00:33:42,168
if they do the exact right thing
at the
exact right time, their

649
00:33:42,168 --> 00:33:46,232
show is going to boom, and that
could be
true for one or two

650
00:33:46,232 --> 00:33:48,037
people.
It could be true for a lot of


651
00:33:48,045 --> 00:33:49,363
people.
You might be able to strike

652
00:33:49,363 --> 00:33:52,936
lightning, but more
likely
you're going to have to try a

653
00:33:52,936 --> 00:33:54,842
million different things
and
not fail.

654
00:33:54,842 --> 00:33:58,396
I don't really see it as
failure, but you're going
to

655
00:33:58,396 --> 00:34:01,820
not see growth a lot, and that
has to be okay, and you
have

656
00:34:01,820 --> 00:34:04,746
to be in it for the long haul,
of course.

657
00:34:04,746 --> 00:34:08,949
There are, and
I really like
one of my another pet peeve,

658
00:34:08,949 --> 00:34:11,391
another thing that
that boils
my blood.

659
00:34:11,391 --> 00:34:14,670
There's so many phrases for this
that I'm
sure I'll share, is

660
00:34:14,670 --> 00:34:18,132
that you know, I really don't
like to
give like general

661
00:34:18,132 --> 00:34:20,806
blanket advice that is not
specific, so we can
get into

662
00:34:20,806 --> 00:34:23,552
specifics in a second, of like
things that do work, or
things

663
00:34:23,552 --> 00:34:26,719
that you can try, but I always
want people to keep in
mind

664
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:31,045
that even if I tell you 50
things and 50 of them could be


665
00:34:31,053 --> 00:34:35,300
really helpful for you, even if
you try them and you quote


666
00:34:35,308 --> 00:34:38,719
unquote do them right, you might
not grow your show right now,


667
00:34:38,728 --> 00:34:41,462
and that's not my fault, and
that's not your fault, that's


668
00:34:41,469 --> 00:34:44,290
just like circumstances, because
there are so many variables that

669
00:34:44,290 --> 00:34:47,395

go into everything, that go
into why a listener chooses to

670
00:34:47,395 --> 00:34:50,330
listen
to something, that goes
in, go into why a listener

671
00:34:50,330 --> 00:34:52,456
continues to
listen to
something, why a listener then

672
00:34:52,456 --> 00:34:54,760
likes you so much
that they
become a paid subscriber, but

673
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,700
then you have to
keep them as
a paid subscriber, so Ralph

674
00:34:57,700 --> 00:35:00,383
Estep Jr.: Arielle, one of
the
things that I hear a lot of co.

675
00:35:00,383 --> 00:35:02,874
Just talk about was just be
consistent, Marc Ronick: yeah.

676
00:35:02,874 --> 00:35:05,199
And I Ralph Estep Jr.: hear so
many
podcasters that said I've

677
00:35:05,199 --> 00:35:08,220
been publishing consistently,
Rafa,
my audience isn't

678
00:35:08,220 --> 00:35:10,950
growing.
Where do you go when you start

679
00:35:10,950 --> 00:35:13,452
to hear
that conversation when
somebody's saying that to you?


680
00:35:13,460 --> 00:35:15,795
Because it just drives me crazy.
It's like you can consistently


681
00:35:15,803 --> 00:35:18,015
be doing the wrong things and
you're not going to get


682
00:35:18,023 --> 00:35:19,082
anywhere.
That's what I always tell

683
00:35:19,082 --> 00:35:20,534
people.
I'm a finance guy,
that's

684
00:35:20,534 --> 00:35:23,562
where I make my money, and, and
I was telling you, you
can

685
00:35:23,562 --> 00:35:25,715
consistently be making bad
decisions for your business, and

686
00:35:25,715 --> 00:35:27,740

you could be consistent,
you're just going to go broke.

687
00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:31,490
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, you

can make a consistently shitty

688
00:35:31,580 --> 00:35:35,180
podcast for 1520 years, you can
do whatever you want.

689
00:35:35,180 --> 00:35:39,203
I think the issue that I have
with the
consistency, the

690
00:35:39,203 --> 00:35:42,268
consistency advice is not, I do
think it's
great to be

691
00:35:42,268 --> 00:35:45,492
consistent, but don't put out
content for the
sake of

692
00:35:45,492 --> 00:35:49,445
putting out content just because
you think you need to do
it

693
00:35:49,445 --> 00:35:52,965
weekly, forever.
I usually, I mean, for a while I

694
00:35:52,965 --> 00:35:55,690
was like,
not just be
consistent, quote unquote, but

695
00:35:55,690 --> 00:35:58,765
be consistent,
sure, and if
you need to take a break for a

696
00:35:58,765 --> 00:36:01,450
week, or for a
month, or you
know, if you're going to drop a

697
00:36:01,450 --> 00:36:04,656
bunch of feed
drops in with an
intro from you that explains why

698
00:36:04,656 --> 00:36:07,314
you're away,
but this is a
really great episode to listen

699
00:36:07,314 --> 00:36:10,250
to while I'm
gone.
Great, be transparent with your

700
00:36:10,250 --> 00:36:12,980
audience about where you
are.
You don't have to give all the

701
00:36:12,980 --> 00:36:15,180
details, of course, but you

know, like you did, Mark, like

702
00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:18,164
you were away last week, you let

us know why.

703
00:36:18,164 --> 00:36:21,200
You, we are with you on that.
We want to know how
it went.

704
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,504
I think a lot of this, a lot of
it is about your
trusting or

705
00:36:25,504 --> 00:36:28,868
letting your listeners be
excited by building
a

706
00:36:28,868 --> 00:36:34,066
relationship with you, and if
you need to make a change, or if

707
00:36:34,066 --> 00:36:38,330

you need to say goodbye to one
of your co-hosts for whatever


708
00:36:38,338 --> 00:36:40,660
reason, letting people know why
that happened.

709
00:36:40,660 --> 00:36:43,315
Of course, like I
said before,
you don't have to go into all

710
00:36:43,315 --> 00:36:46,714
the details, but
just being
when you can't be consistent, be

711
00:36:46,714 --> 00:36:50,554
transparent, and
I think
there's also an element here of

712
00:36:50,554 --> 00:36:54,880
it's okay to not
publish, or
it's okay to put out a shorter

713
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,880
episode that is
quality rather
than a longer episode that is

714
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,508
not good, it's
okay to kill an
episode where you had a guest

715
00:37:01,508 --> 00:37:04,524
come on who was
just bad, they
promoted themselves the entire

716
00:37:04,524 --> 00:37:06,743
time.
It's
okay to say, I am not

717
00:37:06,743 --> 00:37:08,428
publishing that.
I have standards.

718
00:37:08,428 --> 00:37:13,182
I also
will say, for the past
year or so, I worked with a lot

719
00:37:13,182 --> 00:37:15,516
of
businesses, solo
entrepreneurs, small companies

720
00:37:15,516 --> 00:37:19,269
that wanted to
start podcasts,
or were, you know, continuing to

721
00:37:19,269 --> 00:37:22,370
make their
own podcasts, and,
you know they had heard the same

722
00:37:22,370 --> 00:37:23,540
advice.
I
need to be consistent

723
00:37:23,540 --> 00:37:24,920
forever.
I need to put it out forever.


724
00:37:24,928 --> 00:37:28,310
That's how I'm going to grow.
Content in and of itself does


725
00:37:28,318 --> 00:37:30,900
not help you grow.
It's marketing the content that

726
00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:33,830
helps
you grow.
The show has to be good also,

727
00:37:33,830 --> 00:37:35,720
right?
The show has
to be good.

728
00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:37,715
People forget this.
You can't just put something


729
00:37:37,723 --> 00:37:39,229
out.
You don't deserve an audience.

730
00:37:39,229 --> 00:37:40,874
Nobody deserves an
audience,
right?

731
00:37:40,874 --> 00:37:42,700
You're not entitled to anybody's
time.

732
00:37:42,700 --> 00:37:46,060
You
have to work for it.
I lately have been telling

733
00:37:46,060 --> 00:37:49,844
people, if
you're a business
that has a podcast or a solo

734
00:37:49,844 --> 00:37:53,119
entrepreneur
that wants to
start a podcast, you have to

735
00:37:53,119 --> 00:37:55,596
decide why you're
making the
show, other than downloads and

736
00:37:55,596 --> 00:37:59,336
dollars, and that
there could
be so many reasons for that.

737
00:37:59,336 --> 00:38:02,331
It could be, it could
be as
shallow as I want to interview

738
00:38:02,331 --> 00:38:04,705
these people, so that
I can
make clips, so that I can post

739
00:38:04,705 --> 00:38:07,671
them on social, so that
people
see that I'm associated with

740
00:38:07,671 --> 00:38:09,708
this person.
That can be a
reason.

741
00:38:09,708 --> 00:38:12,287
It could be I love playing
around with technology.


742
00:38:12,295 --> 00:38:15,555
It could be I like sharpening my
interview skills, because I also

743
00:38:15,555 --> 00:38:18,744

like to speak on stages.
It could be it makes me look

744
00:38:18,744 --> 00:38:21,998
tech
forward to have a podcast
in my industry, so I want to

745
00:38:21,998 --> 00:38:25,568
have a
podcast, and you don't
have to be an every week, every

746
00:38:25,568 --> 00:38:29,120
day,
whatever your cadence is,
you don't have to be doing that

747
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:30,851
forever.
If you have one big interview

748
00:38:30,851 --> 00:38:34,289
per month with
somebody that
you really want to have on your

749
00:38:34,289 --> 00:38:36,788
show, you can ride
the clips
wave forever.

750
00:38:36,788 --> 00:38:40,600
You could even have a situation
where you interview people

751
00:38:41,290 --> 00:38:44,920
literally just when they say yes

to you, and maybe the majority

752
00:38:44,980 --> 00:38:47,650
of your show lives on social,

and yeah, sure, you also

753
00:38:47,740 --> 00:38:51,340
distribute via RSS and YouTube,
but you don't owe anybody

754
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:52,955
consistency, you have to decide.



755
00:38:52,963 --> 00:38:55,360
I just grind my gears, that's
another one.

756
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,341
The idea that you,
you have to
do something because some

757
00:38:58,341 --> 00:39:02,530
SEO-laden blog told you
that
you had to do it, you do what

758
00:39:02,530 --> 00:39:04,905
you want.
Marc Ronick: Yes, yes, you're


759
00:39:04,913 --> 00:39:08,684
fitting right in here, Arielle.
Yeah, and all right, so let's


760
00:39:08,692 --> 00:39:13,492
keep stay on this a little bit.
If somebody, a podcaster, has a

761
00:39:13,492 --> 00:39:17,918
great show, but they're saying
they have a small audience,


762
00:39:17,926 --> 00:39:21,340
whatever, however they're
defining that, what are the


763
00:39:21,348 --> 00:39:25,098
first things you think that they
should focus on Arielle

764
00:39:25,098 --> 00:39:26,570
Nissenblatt: first?
I
would want them to do a self

765
00:39:26,750 --> 00:39:31,340
audit of their own show, but in
order to do that, they need to

766
00:39:31,790 --> 00:39:34,670
plug into the ecosystem, and I

think that's a mistake that a

767
00:39:34,670 --> 00:39:37,340
lot of people make, is they

don't listen to podcasts

768
00:39:37,340 --> 00:39:40,270
themselves, or they don't

actively make an effort to stay

769
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:43,960
up on podcasts in their niche,

or even podcasts outside of

770
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,305
their niche.
So, usually what I
recommend

771
00:39:46,305 --> 00:39:49,978
is make a list of other shows,
and it can be there
should

772
00:39:49,978 --> 00:39:52,608
probably be a few within your
category and a few outside
of

773
00:39:52,608 --> 00:39:54,934
your category.
You can go to Apple and Spotify

774
00:39:54,934 --> 00:39:58,186
and search for
your category,
choose a few big ones, choose a

775
00:39:58,186 --> 00:40:01,110
few small ones,
go to the.
There's a really great website

776
00:40:01,110 --> 00:40:03,965
that I'm sure
you've mentioned
on the show, called Rephonic.

777
00:40:03,965 --> 00:40:07,774
Yes,
rephonic.com/graph
There's a few websites nowadays

778
00:40:07,774 --> 00:40:10,194
that are
popping up that are
helpful here.

779
00:40:10,194 --> 00:40:13,214
Million podcasts.com makes

really specific lists.

780
00:40:13,214 --> 00:40:15,450
Player FM makes really specific
lists.

781
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,085
Marc Ronick: Hey, how long has

that Million Podcasts site been

782
00:40:19,148 --> 00:40:21,304
out?
Because I feel like I'm
just

783
00:40:21,304 --> 00:40:23,531
seeing it, Arielle Nissenblatt:
because
it's a little.. can I

784
00:40:23,531 --> 00:40:25,730
be real with you?
I don't understand it.

785
00:40:25,730 --> 00:40:28,156
Marc Ronick: Yeah, me neither.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Okay, I'm


786
00:40:28,164 --> 00:40:30,891
doing some investigation, so
I'll get back to you on that.


787
00:40:30,899 --> 00:40:34,129
But for now, the lists are
there, so if you are straight up

788
00:40:34,129 --> 00:40:36,878

there to look for other shows
to potentially collaborate with,

789
00:40:36,878 --> 00:40:40,614
or
to listen to, or to..
I don't know, do some landscape

790
00:40:40,614 --> 00:40:43,909
tracking, you can use that.
They also have a paid service,

791
00:40:43,909 --> 00:40:46,190
so I
don't know exactly what
they're offering.

792
00:40:46,190 --> 00:40:50,150
Is you don't need to
take part
in that, so just use it for the

793
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:52,370
listings for now.

That's the example that I'm

794
00:40:52,424 --> 00:40:55,587
giving, is you know, you can

use, you can go to Google and

795
00:40:55,642 --> 00:40:58,805
search, like podcasts about

niche topic player FM, podcast

796
00:40:58,859 --> 00:41:02,077
about niche topic, million

podcasts, podcasts, and then you

797
00:41:02,132 --> 00:41:03,978
can find lists of these things.


798
00:41:03,986 --> 00:41:07,032
They're usually generated by a
backend system that they have.


799
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,504
That's a really great way to
just find out what other shows


800
00:41:10,512 --> 00:41:13,782
are playing in your arena.
You can listen to them, you can

801
00:41:13,782 --> 00:41:17,090
find
out what you like about
them, you can find what you

802
00:41:17,090 --> 00:41:19,753
don't like
about them.
Maybe they discuss things in

803
00:41:19,753 --> 00:41:22,797
your topic area that
you
really disagree with, look at

804
00:41:22,797 --> 00:41:25,210
that, that's a pulse, you,

that's a pulse check.

805
00:41:25,210 --> 00:41:28,056
You can disagree with them
publicly, you
can start some

806
00:41:28,056 --> 00:41:31,378
beef in a nice way, you can at
them on social
media and

807
00:41:31,378 --> 00:41:34,129
invite them to be on the show to
disagree with you.


808
00:41:34,137 --> 00:41:37,734
All of this just kind of puts
you in conversation with your


809
00:41:37,742 --> 00:41:40,650
audience, their audience, and
also the larger landscape that


810
00:41:40,658 --> 00:41:43,730
you're a part of.
But that's one thing I would do,

811
00:41:43,730 --> 00:41:47,027
is self audit,
try to figure
out where your show stands, how

812
00:41:47,027 --> 00:41:49,211
your cold opens
compare to
somebody else's.

813
00:41:49,211 --> 00:41:52,573
Do you need a cold open?
That's
another thing about

814
00:41:52,573 --> 00:41:54,424
consistency.
I'm sorry, Jason, you spoke


815
00:41:54,432 --> 00:41:57,571
about being on track.
You don't have to have a cold

816
00:41:57,571 --> 00:42:00,498
open for
every single episode
just because you've decided that

817
00:42:00,498 --> 00:42:03,836

that's how you open your show.
If there's not something cold


818
00:42:03,844 --> 00:42:06,113
open worthy, do not have a cold
open.

819
00:42:06,113 --> 00:42:09,254
I think people don't
realize
this, like don't put a shitty

820
00:42:09,254 --> 00:42:11,854
cold open for the sake of

putting a cold open.

821
00:42:11,854 --> 00:42:15,115
Okay, so anyway, all of this
kind of goes
into the audit

822
00:42:15,115 --> 00:42:18,679
process of like, is your show
actually good, is
it actually

823
00:42:18,679 --> 00:42:20,945
worthwhile.
Another part of this is pick one

824
00:42:20,945 --> 00:42:23,758
or two
people that leave
comments on your posts and ask

825
00:42:23,758 --> 00:42:27,282
them if you
can have a phone
call with them and see what they

826
00:42:27,282 --> 00:42:30,776
like about
your show and what
they don't like about your show.

827
00:42:30,776 --> 00:42:32,438
Ask them
very specific
questions.

828
00:42:32,438 --> 00:42:35,602
There is an article from 2023
written
by Tom Webster of

829
00:42:35,602 --> 00:42:38,682
Sounds Profitable, called What
We Talk
About When We Talk

830
00:42:38,682 --> 00:42:41,620
About Podcasts, and in it he
outlines
five questions that

831
00:42:41,620 --> 00:42:44,638
you can ask to do a mini
listener survey,
one of them

832
00:42:44,638 --> 00:42:48,240
is, is my show too long or too
short, and you'll
notice that

833
00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:51,454
the question there is not, How
do you feel about
the length

834
00:42:51,454 --> 00:42:54,735
of my show, because often when
you ask people a
question like

835
00:42:54,735 --> 00:42:57,877
that, it'll be like, oh, it's
good, but if you
give them a,

836
00:42:57,877 --> 00:43:01,198
is it too long or is it too
short, you get one
answer or

837
00:43:01,198 --> 00:43:04,290
the other, you can ask them, How
would you describe my
podcast

838
00:43:04,290 --> 00:43:07,703
to a friend or a family member?
So, what do other people


839
00:43:07,711 --> 00:43:11,028
perceive this show is about?
All of that stuff will be very


840
00:43:11,036 --> 00:43:14,143
helpful, and I would say pay
somebody to audit your show, but

841
00:43:14,143 --> 00:43:17,599

if you don't want to, you can
audit your own show, but you do

842
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:19,703
need to put a lot of work into
it.

843
00:43:19,703 --> 00:43:22,453
Okay, so that's one thing
that
I would do to start.

844
00:43:22,507 --> 00:43:25,507
Another thing I would do is

there's a bunch of like low

845
00:43:25,561 --> 00:43:27,229
hanging fruit that I would

check.

846
00:43:27,229 --> 00:43:29,286
So, what's the name of your
show?

847
00:43:29,286 --> 00:43:32,051
Does it accurately
reflect
what your show is about?

848
00:43:32,105 --> 00:43:33,977
Is your cover art terrible?
Is
it ugly?

849
00:43:33,977 --> 00:43:37,932
Is it - does it give the wrong
impression of what the
show is

850
00:43:37,932 --> 00:43:39,508
about?
Because, again, what you're

851
00:43:39,508 --> 00:43:42,769
doing when you are
presenting
your show, is you have your

852
00:43:42,769 --> 00:43:45,958
title out there, you
have
your, you have your artwork out

853
00:43:45,958 --> 00:43:49,334
there, you have a
description
of your show out there, you have

854
00:43:49,334 --> 00:43:52,320
a few visual
elements that
people are clocking as they're

855
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,834
deciding
whether or not to
listen to your show, and you get

856
00:43:55,834 --> 00:43:59,260
to figure out
over time, you
will figure out if people are,

857
00:43:59,260 --> 00:44:01,992
you're promising
somebody
something based on the artwork

858
00:44:01,992 --> 00:44:04,991
and the title, are you
then
delivering on it in each

859
00:44:05,045 --> 00:44:08,317
subsequent step that somebody

makes as they become a fan, or

860
00:44:08,372 --> 00:44:10,676
not?
So, a big part of this is
the

861
00:44:10,676 --> 00:44:12,081
trailer.
Does your trailer accurately

862
00:44:12,081 --> 00:44:15,332
reflect what's in the
actual
first episode of the show?

863
00:44:15,332 --> 00:44:18,352
If not, if your trailer is

where you spent all of your

864
00:44:18,407 --> 00:44:21,679
production budget and you've got

sound effects and music and

865
00:44:21,733 --> 00:44:25,005
whatever, and then the first

episode sounds terrible, that's

866
00:44:25,060 --> 00:44:28,441
very confusing for the listener,

so making sure all of that is

867
00:44:28,496 --> 00:44:31,550
consistent and makes sense from
one to the other is very

868
00:44:31,604 --> 00:44:34,931
important to do, that's another
thing that I would check out,

869
00:44:34,985 --> 00:44:38,094
same with your titles, your

episode title conventions, do

870
00:44:38,149 --> 00:44:41,366
they make sense, not only do

they make sense, are they, are

871
00:44:41,421 --> 00:44:44,747
they actually what people search

for when they're looking for

872
00:44:44,802 --> 00:44:47,058
your show.
Yes, this is SEO, but
even

873
00:44:47,058 --> 00:44:50,253
without getting into the nitty
gritty of it, just the
because

874
00:44:50,253 --> 00:44:53,333
I think SEO sometimes can be
scary, but really it's
like

875
00:44:53,333 --> 00:44:56,593
when people search for a show
like yours, what search
terms

876
00:44:56,593 --> 00:44:59,389
are they using?
That's SEO, so those are a few.

877
00:44:59,389 --> 00:45:02,443
Things
that I would do.
Another thing I would do is, I

878
00:45:02,443 --> 00:45:05,730
mean, the way
that I operate
when I'm working to grow a show

879
00:45:05,730 --> 00:45:08,143
is, I make a huge
list of
other podcasts, other

880
00:45:08,198 --> 00:45:11,579
newsletters, other publications,

influencers that we should be

881
00:45:11,634 --> 00:45:14,906
collaborating with or getting

front of in some way, and then

882
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,014
the work is to find contact

information for that show or

883
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:20,608
newsletter, or whatever.
Find an
angle, so sometimes

884
00:45:20,608 --> 00:45:24,466
it's I want to be a guest on the
show to
talk about this aspect

885
00:45:24,466 --> 00:45:27,041
of coffee farming.
If I'm a coffee
podcaster,

886
00:45:27,041 --> 00:45:29,708
sometimes it's there's a
newsletter, and a
newsletter

887
00:45:29,708 --> 00:45:33,045
about coffee, and in each issue
they feature a piece
of media.

888
00:45:33,045 --> 00:45:36,393
Can I be that piece of media?
Is it there's an
influencer

889
00:45:36,393 --> 00:45:39,499
who goes and reviews different,
I'm just making this
up, so

890
00:45:39,499 --> 00:45:42,683
it's going to be a weird thing.
Different movies where
coffee

891
00:45:42,683 --> 00:45:46,189
is like a main protagonist, or
like there's an
iconic coffee

892
00:45:46,189 --> 00:45:48,925
scene in the movie.
Can I sponsor that
segment?

893
00:45:48,925 --> 00:45:52,464
So, coming up with interesting
ways to get in front
of these

894
00:45:52,464 --> 00:45:55,401
people's audience in a way that
respects those people's


895
00:45:55,409 --> 00:45:58,686
audience and also respects the
fact that you've actually done


896
00:45:58,694 --> 00:46:02,435
your research to find out what
this show is about or what this

897
00:46:02,435 --> 00:46:04,763
newsletter is about, and how
you can plug in.

898
00:46:04,763 --> 00:46:08,006
A lot of people
ask, how do I
actually get a yes from this

899
00:46:08,006 --> 00:46:09,326
person?
How do I
pitch?

900
00:46:09,326 --> 00:46:11,772
How long should my pitch be?
Blah blah blah.

901
00:46:11,772 --> 00:46:15,421
I always say
the first thing
that you should do, and I feel

902
00:46:15,421 --> 00:46:18,412
pretty
comfortable saying you
should do this, even though I'm

903
00:46:18,412 --> 00:46:21,953
usually
not about the shoulds
and the musts and stuff, is you

904
00:46:21,953 --> 00:46:24,915
can
always email people or
message people and say, hey, I

905
00:46:24,915 --> 00:46:28,135
love what
you do, I would love
to send you information about my

906
00:46:28,135 --> 00:46:31,383
show, or
I'd love to pitch
myself as a guest, but first,

907
00:46:31,383 --> 00:46:35,097
before I do,
are you open to
pitches, and if so, what do you

908
00:46:35,097 --> 00:46:38,284
like to receive
in a pitch?
That's warming them up, it's a

909
00:46:38,284 --> 00:46:41,559
pre-pitch, and I
think that's
a great way to just get them to

910
00:46:41,559 --> 00:46:43,200
not hate you right
off the
bat.

911
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,537
Marc Ronick: Yeah, all right.

So, I know that we have a couple

912
00:46:46,605 --> 00:46:48,495
more people that have questions.



913
00:46:48,503 --> 00:46:52,747
I'm gonna go to Phil Better,
who's over on Clubhouse first.


914
00:46:52,755 --> 00:46:56,068
Phil, good morning to you.
Good to see you.

915
00:46:56,068 --> 00:46:59,544
What did you want to
ask
Arielle after that build up?

916
00:46:59,613 --> 00:47:03,172
All right, sorry about that.
Phil: Sorry, couldn't find the


917
00:47:03,180 --> 00:47:04,350
unmute button.
Marc Ronick: That's okay.

918
00:47:04,350 --> 00:47:07,877
Phil: You think a podcaster

would learn how to unmute a mic,

919
00:47:07,943 --> 00:47:10,232
but no.
Arielle, thank you very
much

920
00:47:10,232 --> 00:47:13,260
for being here.
But you touched on earned media

921
00:47:13,260 --> 00:47:17,341
and
owned media in your, in
your talk, and if people aren't

922
00:47:17,341 --> 00:47:21,467
sure
what that means, it's
owned as your social media, or


923
00:47:21,475 --> 00:47:25,093
newsletter, or the podcasters,
the specific podcaster, and then

924
00:47:25,093 --> 00:47:28,587

earned is going on other
podcasts or getting on


925
00:47:28,595 --> 00:47:30,934
newsletters.
What is your suggestions to

926
00:47:30,934 --> 00:47:34,663
podcasters who
want to use
paid media to grow their

927
00:47:34,663 --> 00:47:36,495
podcast?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, so I

928
00:47:36,495 --> 00:47:39,429
have a few tools that if you
decide you want to spend some


929
00:47:39,437 --> 00:47:42,604
money to grow your show that I
trust, but first I would say


930
00:47:42,612 --> 00:47:46,768
figure out why you want to grow
your show in the first place,


931
00:47:46,776 --> 00:47:50,248
and figure out what, how you
want to grow it, because there


932
00:47:50,256 --> 00:47:52,347
are some.
Yes, you could pay for placement

933
00:47:52,347 --> 00:47:56,490
in a newsletter, yes,
you can
pay for placement on, you can

934
00:47:56,490 --> 00:48:00,072
buy an ad on a podcast,
but
you can also buy on apps, you

935
00:48:00,072 --> 00:48:03,330
can buy to get featured on a

podcast listening app like Cast

936
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,330
Box or like Pocket Casts or like

Player FM.

937
00:48:06,330 --> 00:48:09,570
There's many others that allow
you to buy and some
that

938
00:48:09,570 --> 00:48:11,930
don't.
And I would say first and

939
00:48:11,930 --> 00:48:14,916
foremost, figure out
why you
want to grow, like ultimately,

940
00:48:14,916 --> 00:48:17,636
and it shouldn't
just be
because I want a bigger show, it

941
00:48:17,636 --> 00:48:20,416
should be because I
want more
clients or because I want to

942
00:48:20,416 --> 00:48:23,405
grow my social, like,
have a
reason that you want to grow

943
00:48:23,405 --> 00:48:26,780
other than I just want to
grow
vanity metrics.

944
00:48:26,780 --> 00:48:29,576
Then figure out how you want to
grow,
because, like I said

945
00:48:29,576 --> 00:48:31,888
before, you could buy subscriber
uplift.

946
00:48:31,888 --> 00:48:34,478
You
can buy guaranteed
subscriber uplift.

947
00:48:34,478 --> 00:48:36,627
There are a bunch of,
there
are a bunch of services out

948
00:48:36,627 --> 00:48:38,870
there that will say, I will

get you this many downloads, no

949
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:40,458
matter what.
That's not usually
a good

950
00:48:40,458 --> 00:48:42,661
thing to do.
I know it sounds tempting, but

951
00:48:42,661 --> 00:48:46,795
yeah, that
means that they're
gonna probably be getting you

952
00:48:46,795 --> 00:48:49,796
some
lower quality subscribers
that aren't actually all that


953
00:48:49,804 --> 00:48:51,945
interested in what you're
putting out into the world.

954
00:48:51,945 --> 00:48:55,960
Then
there are some places
that will allow you to buy based

955
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,668
on
impressions, which sounds
not great, right, because it's

956
00:48:58,668 --> 00:49:01,376
just
being impressed upon
people and they need to decide

957
00:49:01,376 --> 00:49:03,906
what action
to take, but
theoretically the people that

958
00:49:03,906 --> 00:49:07,190
are going to be
interested are
going to opt in, and they're

959
00:49:07,190 --> 00:49:09,249
interested in your
show, so
they're going to listen to it,

960
00:49:09,249 --> 00:49:10,852
maybe they stick around,
maybe
they don't.

961
00:49:10,852 --> 00:49:13,610
That's where the "your show has
to be good"
comes into play,

962
00:49:13,610 --> 00:49:18,399
but I'll say there's a lot that
you can do
for free to grow

963
00:49:18,399 --> 00:49:21,908
your show that I would pull all
of those levers
before you

964
00:49:21,908 --> 00:49:24,490
start spending money, especially
if you're an
independent

965
00:49:24,490 --> 00:49:26,570
creator, you know.
And I shouldn't be saying I


966
00:49:26,578 --> 00:49:28,199
would, I would, I would, I
would.

967
00:49:28,199 --> 00:49:31,250
That's what I would do.

Yeah, independent creators can

968
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,680
make their own decisions.
If
you're at a network, you

969
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,406
have less decision-making power,
so
it might be, you know, this

970
00:49:37,406 --> 00:49:40,608
is the, this is how we're going
to
spend our budget, and you

971
00:49:40,608 --> 00:49:43,780
might be getting placements on

podcasts or in newsletters that

972
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,030
don't necessarily make sense,

but they need to spend that

973
00:49:46,090 --> 00:49:48,850
budget, so even if you do end up

eventually spending money,

974
00:49:49,540 --> 00:49:53,470
please make sure that you're

also running these non-paid

975
00:49:54,190 --> 00:49:55,540
marketing campaigns

simultaneously.

976
00:49:55,540 --> 00:49:58,420
If you do want to spend money,
there's..

977
00:49:58,420 --> 00:50:01,475
I
really like.. there's this.
Service called Introcast,


978
00:50:01,483 --> 00:50:06,486
introcast.io It allows you to
pay for feed drops on other


979
00:50:06,494 --> 00:50:11,151
people's podcasts, but it goes
into the second episode slot, so

980
00:50:11,151 --> 00:50:14,490

it's very interesting,
inobtrusive, slow growth, but


981
00:50:14,498 --> 00:50:17,574
slow, meaningful growth that
actually compounds over time.

982
00:50:17,574 --> 00:50:19,500
So
that's one that I
recommend.

983
00:50:19,530 --> 00:50:21,590
There are a few others that I

recommend, but for the interest

984
00:50:21,620 --> 00:50:24,160
of time, I will pause.
Marc Ronick: Awesome, thank you.

985
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:25,680


And, DR, you had something.

986
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,904
DR: Yeah, by the way, I am now

one of your paid subscribers on

987
00:50:29,977 --> 00:50:34,910
Podcast Plunge.
Alex: Wow, that's such a shock.

988
00:50:34,910 --> 00:50:37,069
Marc Ronick: There's Alex Alex:
off the road.

989
00:50:37,069 --> 00:50:39,760
Sorry, I had
to just stick
that in there.

990
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,054
Marc Ronick: And just so you

know, Arielle, Alex is referring

991
00:50:43,122 --> 00:50:47,034
to just the fact that Air, that
DR. is quick sometimes to

992
00:50:47,103 --> 00:50:50,260
subscribe to things.
Yeah,
there's gonna be an

993
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:53,929
Alex: intervention soon.
It's
gonna be Ralph and the

994
00:50:53,929 --> 00:50:57,049
rest of the crew, since Ralph is
the
money guy, because we're

995
00:50:57,049 --> 00:50:58,660
gonna have a huge intervention
on
page.

996
00:50:58,990 --> 00:51:02,025
DR: Yeah, intervention.
Anyway,
that's Alex: a side.

997
00:51:02,025 --> 00:51:04,230
I'm sorry, I
didn't mean to
conversation.

998
00:51:04,379 --> 00:51:08,643
DR: So I want to talk about when

you were talking about self

999
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:12,376
audit as a producer.
Probably my
biggest pain point

1000
00:51:12,376 --> 00:51:17,265
is that when people come to me,
they've
usually lived with

1001
00:51:17,265 --> 00:51:21,858
their podcast in their head for
at least a
year, maybe two

1002
00:51:21,858 --> 00:51:26,428
years before they even come to
me, and trying
to get them to

1003
00:51:26,428 --> 00:51:29,131
guilt.
The fact that you know Joe

1004
00:51:29,131 --> 00:51:33,765
Blow's podcast
is probably
going to be passed up is a hard,

1005
00:51:33,765 --> 00:51:38,371
is hard to do,
because they've
lived with it for so long in

1006
00:51:38,371 --> 00:51:42,497
their head,
they've lived with
the image of what they want

1007
00:51:42,497 --> 00:51:46,959
their, their
cover art to be
in their head, and I'm trying

1008
00:51:46,959 --> 00:51:51,645
to, you know, pry
them away
from from that and have a little

1009
00:51:51,645 --> 00:51:56,244
bit more of an
open mind.
It's tough when you ask them to

1010
00:51:56,244 --> 00:51:58,182
self audit that.
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yeah, the


1011
00:51:58,190 --> 00:52:00,557
only reason I'm giving that
recommendation is because I


1012
00:52:00,565 --> 00:52:04,158
don't want to outright be like
you should pay me to audit your

1013
00:52:04,158 --> 00:52:06,340
show.
I mean, I think that there is a

1014
00:52:06,340 --> 00:52:08,932
lot you can do to be

objective, but you can also pay

1015
00:52:08,986 --> 00:52:12,011
other people to be objective for

you, or.. and you'll see

1016
00:52:12,064 --> 00:52:15,196
sometimes on like communities,

podcast creator communities,

1017
00:52:15,249 --> 00:52:18,433
like anybody want to do an audit

swap, and I think even that

1018
00:52:18,486 --> 00:52:20,694
you're still kind of

incentivized to be nice.

1019
00:52:20,694 --> 00:52:24,099
So I'm not saying I'm mean, I'm
just
saying I'm, I'm like,

1020
00:52:24,099 --> 00:52:27,801
here's what's not working.
DR: Yeah, you know, we do audits

1021
00:52:27,801 --> 00:52:32,480

here on this show every now
and then, and we have got that


1022
00:52:32,488 --> 00:52:36,911
finesse, we've got it down that,
you know, compliment sandwich,


1023
00:52:36,919 --> 00:52:41,272
where you give a give a great
kudo, and then an opportunity,


1024
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,618
and you back it up with another
kudo.

1025
00:52:43,618 --> 00:52:46,750
Yeah, so yeah, there's a
way
to do it.

1026
00:52:46,810 --> 00:52:48,400
Arielle Nissenblatt: There's a

way to do it, and people need to

1027
00:52:48,430 --> 00:52:52,253
hear it, because ultimately you
need to decide why you make

1028
00:52:52,253 --> 00:52:55,255
your show, right?
Is it just to
stroke your own

1029
00:52:55,255 --> 00:52:57,032
ego?
Because if so, that's okay, but

1030
00:52:57,032 --> 00:52:58,900
you need to
know that it may
not grow.

1031
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:01,370
Marc Ronick: Fair enough,
Arielle Nissenblatt: if you can

1032
00:53:01,370 --> 00:53:04,080
admit it, Marc Ronick: and by
the way,
again, it's Arielle

1033
00:53:04,144 --> 00:53:08,176
nissenblatt.com and we're going
to put a link in our show notes

1034
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:12,016
as well, if you want to learn

how to get in touch with her,

1035
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,984
and also I want to, you know,

we're short on time, and I want

1036
00:53:16,048 --> 00:53:20,080
to ask you about new podcasts,

right, so if we're launching, if

1037
00:53:20,144 --> 00:53:22,878
you were launching a new podcast

today.

1038
00:53:22,878 --> 00:53:25,917
What content strategy would you
focus on first?

1039
00:53:25,917 --> 00:53:29,596
Give
me one specifically one
content strategy you would focus

1040
00:53:29,596 --> 00:53:32,024
on first.
Arielle Nissenblatt: I would


1041
00:53:32,032 --> 00:53:35,600
really be playing a game of
optimizing everything,


1042
00:53:35,608 --> 00:53:40,784
sharpening all of the messaging
around the show, so I really


1043
00:53:40,792 --> 00:53:45,130
want to make sure that the cover
art accurately reflects the rest

1044
00:53:45,130 --> 00:53:49,180

of the show, that the title
reflects the rest of the show,


1045
00:53:49,188 --> 00:53:52,230
that the title is what people
search for, maybe also with


1046
00:53:52,238 --> 00:53:55,070
something cutesy thrown in
there, because yes, SEO is


1047
00:53:55,078 --> 00:53:58,326
important, but writing for
humans is also important.

1048
00:53:58,326 --> 00:54:02,547
I
would make sure that I'm
thinking strategically about


1049
00:54:02,555 --> 00:54:07,230
each of my guests, and I think
that means sometimes if you


1050
00:54:07,238 --> 00:54:10,260
interview somebody and it's not
a perfect interview, maybe you


1051
00:54:10,268 --> 00:54:13,596
don't have to kill the interview
entirely, but you instead


1052
00:54:13,604 --> 00:54:18,084
release parts of it on YouTube,
and maybe not necessarily on the

1053
00:54:18,084 --> 00:54:21,190

podcast feed, depending on,
you know, which is your primary

1054
00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:24,050
feed
there, which for me,
YouTube is more experimental at

1055
00:54:24,050 --> 00:54:26,358
this
moment.
For some creators, it, that's

1056
00:54:26,358 --> 00:54:29,330
that's their main thing.

I also think a YouTube strategy

1057
00:54:29,540 --> 00:54:32,210
is important, and that doesn't

necessarily mean that you need

1058
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:35,660
to be full on video, it just

means that you need to be taking

1059
00:54:35,690 --> 00:54:39,170
advantage of all that YouTube

has to offer, which means you

1060
00:54:39,170 --> 00:54:41,106
know your RSS feed can live in

YouTube.

1061
00:54:41,106 --> 00:54:43,710
There's a, there's a place where
you can submit your
RSS feed,

1062
00:54:43,710 --> 00:54:45,760
and then your podcast is
available as an audio-only


1063
00:54:45,768 --> 00:54:47,795
podcast.
And I don't think a lot of

1064
00:54:47,795 --> 00:54:50,145
people know that.
I don't
think a lot of podcast

1065
00:54:50,145 --> 00:54:52,186
creators know that.
They think to be on
YouTube,

1066
00:54:52,186 --> 00:54:55,270
you need to be full on video.
So strategies that I
would

1067
00:54:55,270 --> 00:54:58,560
use, or that I would be
implementing, those are some of

1068
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,340
the things that I.
I am interested in, but I think

1069
00:55:01,340 --> 00:55:04,575
for a
lot of people who are
new or who are getting started

1070
00:55:04,575 --> 00:55:08,418
back up
after a while, please
plug into the wider podcast

1071
00:55:08,418 --> 00:55:10,560
space.

Listening to this show is a

1072
00:55:10,590 --> 00:55:12,305
great idea.
Finding out what's
the news

1073
00:55:12,305 --> 00:55:16,032
out there, how you can use that
news, news you can use.


1074
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,226
Read pod news every day, read
sounds profitable.

1075
00:55:18,226 --> 00:55:20,876
Find out what
people are
saying, what people are doing,

1076
00:55:20,876 --> 00:55:24,116
what's working, what
research
studies are out there that you

1077
00:55:24,116 --> 00:55:27,018
can leverage.
Think
about the trust that you

1078
00:55:27,018 --> 00:55:30,810
build with your listeners, and
think
about how you can use

1079
00:55:30,810 --> 00:55:34,954
that to your advantage, and not
in a
sketchy way, but really

1080
00:55:34,954 --> 00:55:37,338
just trying to figure out, like,
all
of the different ways that

1081
00:55:37,338 --> 00:55:40,810
you can plug into this ecosystem

that you're a part of is a

1082
00:55:40,870 --> 00:55:44,320
really great way to just make

sure that you're doing it for

1083
00:55:44,380 --> 00:55:46,615
the right reasons, Marc Ronick:
yeah.

1084
00:55:46,615 --> 00:55:49,243
And all
right, I'm going to
ask you one final question to

1085
00:55:49,243 --> 00:55:51,349
wrap up.
As
you're looking at

1086
00:55:51,349 --> 00:55:55,920
podcasting today, we hear a lot
of people
worrying about some

1087
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,770
of the negative things that are
happening in this space, but I

1088
00:55:59,890 --> 00:56:02,490
want to hear from you, what

gives you the most optimism

1089
00:56:02,850 --> 00:56:05,606
about podcasting today?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Oh, I've


1090
00:56:05,614 --> 00:56:07,775
said this for 10 years, and I
will continue to say it.

1091
00:56:07,775 --> 00:56:09,420
We're
in the golden age of
podcasts.

1092
00:56:09,510 --> 00:56:12,054
There's so much good stuff out

there that's free.

1093
00:56:12,054 --> 00:56:16,746
You could be entertained 24/7
all the time,
constantly.

1094
00:56:16,746 --> 00:56:20,510
There's so much good stuff to
the point that there's
no way

1095
00:56:20,510 --> 00:56:23,150
you're gonna be able to listen
to all of it, but, and
that's

1096
00:56:23,150 --> 00:56:25,788
from a, from a listener
perspective, I just really


1097
00:56:25,796 --> 00:56:29,408
think, oh, you have homework,
sure, and that homework is to


1098
00:56:29,416 --> 00:56:32,649
listen to the best podcast ever.
Okay, that's so sucks for you,


1099
00:56:32,657 --> 00:56:36,336
but no, that's what I would say,
from, from a consumer


1100
00:56:36,344 --> 00:56:40,280
perspective, from a creator
perspective, I mean, I just


1101
00:56:40,288 --> 00:56:44,062
really think podcasters are
getting smarter about hype


1102
00:56:44,070 --> 00:56:46,468
cycles.
You know, there's a lot of hype

1103
00:56:46,468 --> 00:56:48,098
out there.
You got to do
everything with

1104
00:56:48,098 --> 00:56:50,108
AI, you got to do everything
with video.

1105
00:56:50,108 --> 00:56:54,670
I
think there is still so much
value in audio focus content.


1106
00:56:54,678 --> 00:56:59,794
And last year was definitely a
year that I was hearing a lot of

1107
00:56:59,794 --> 00:57:02,568

like, and I'm still seeing
emails that are like, if you're

1108
00:57:02,568 --> 00:57:05,514
not doing video, you're not
taking your podcast seriously,


1109
00:57:05,522 --> 00:57:09,418
which pisses me off, but yeah,
it's really ridiculous.

1110
00:57:09,418 --> 00:57:12,512
I know
it's meant to sell
courses and all that kind of

1111
00:57:12,512 --> 00:57:14,812
stuff, but I
know that
creators are getting smarter

1112
00:57:14,812 --> 00:57:16,899
about being like, no,
that's
not right for me.

1113
00:57:16,899 --> 00:57:20,990
So figuring out what makes sense

for them at the stage that

1114
00:57:21,020 --> 00:57:24,044
they're at, creators are getting

better at that.

1115
00:57:24,044 --> 00:57:27,530
Advertisers are also the hype
cycle will
overcorrect,

1116
00:57:27,530 --> 00:57:30,923
meaning you know, at first we're
not going to
advertise on

1117
00:57:30,923 --> 00:57:32,522
podcasts that don't also do
video.

1118
00:57:32,522 --> 00:57:35,220
Guess what, the
people that
watch videos don't watch videos

1119
00:57:35,220 --> 00:57:37,814
for as long as the
people that
listen to podcasts listen to

1120
00:57:37,814 --> 00:57:40,520
those podcasts, and
that is
starting to become evident in

1121
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,536
research studies, so
I have a
lot of, and I'm not saying video

1122
00:57:43,536 --> 00:57:44,512
is not something
you should
do.

1123
00:57:44,512 --> 00:57:46,300
If you want to make video, you
should make
video.

1124
00:57:46,300 --> 00:57:49,195
If you want to go into a studio
and make really beautiful


1125
00:57:49,203 --> 00:57:52,485
video, you should do that.
But also know that the people

1126
00:57:52,485 --> 00:57:56,350
that
listen to your show love
you and want to stick around,

1127
00:57:56,350 --> 00:57:58,926
and
usually are higher
earners, which means that

1128
00:57:58,926 --> 00:58:01,560
they're going
to spend more on
ads, which makes them not to

1129
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:05,286
speak about
people in terms of
the dollar values that are over

1130
00:58:05,286 --> 00:58:08,312
their
faces, but that's
there's so much value in audio,

1131
00:58:08,312 --> 00:58:11,022
and it's
also fun.
Marc Ronick: I agree with you.


1132
00:58:11,030 --> 00:58:12,756
Yes, and I'm glad you said that.
Thank you.

1133
00:58:12,756 --> 00:58:16,720
Before we wrap up, I
know that
you and Jason, I know I teased

1134
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:22,326
earlier that you, you
were on
his show, or actually will be on

1135
00:58:22,326 --> 00:58:25,810
his show, podcasting
strategy
simplified, but Jason, you guys

1136
00:58:25,810 --> 00:58:27,350
have another project
that's
coming up, right?

1137
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,961
Jason: Yeah, and I'm honestly

going to pass the microphone to

1138
00:58:31,014 --> 00:58:33,948
Arielle for this, because I,

this will be my first time

1139
00:58:34,002 --> 00:58:35,470
venturing into uncharted

territory.

1140
00:58:35,470 --> 00:58:39,244
We're gonna go live on Substack
next Monday, so we
get to hang

1141
00:58:39,244 --> 00:58:42,325
out again, and I'm looking
forward to that, but
Arielle,

1142
00:58:42,325 --> 00:58:45,576
what does everybody have to look
forward to when
they join us

1143
00:58:45,576 --> 00:58:46,943
on that?
Arielle Nissenblatt: Yes, we're

1144
00:58:46,943 --> 00:58:50,323
speaking on the 22nd I think
it's at 9:30am Eastern time, and

1145
00:58:50,323 --> 00:58:52,351

we're just talking about
podcast events.

1146
00:58:52,351 --> 00:58:54,472
So, what events should
people
go to?

1147
00:58:54,472 --> 00:58:56,841
We're going to talk about
Empowered Podcasting.


1148
00:58:56,849 --> 00:59:00,293
We're going to talk about how
these events come together.

1149
00:59:00,293 --> 00:59:04,328
What
I'm very curious about
is, and I, what I know a lot of

1150
00:59:04,328 --> 00:59:07,827
creators
are curious about, is
how do you make the most out of

1151
00:59:07,827 --> 00:59:10,823
your time
at a conference?
You're spending money to go

1152
00:59:10,823 --> 00:59:13,837
there, you're
spending time.
How do you network with people?

1153
00:59:13,837 --> 00:59:16,341
How do you
follow up on that
networking?

1154
00:59:16,398 --> 00:59:17,964
What sessions should you go to?


1155
00:59:17,972 --> 00:59:20,657
Is it worth it to wander the
expo hall floor?

1156
00:59:20,657 --> 00:59:23,630
Yes, there's a
lot of good
swag, and so much more.

1157
00:59:23,630 --> 00:59:24,800
Marc Ronick: Very cool Jason: to
it.

1158
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,423
Marc Ronick: Yeah, yeah, I'm

looking forward to seeing that.

1159
00:59:27,479 --> 00:59:29,490
Arielle, thank you so much for

joining us.

1160
00:59:29,490 --> 00:59:33,127
And I know this is a maybe a
cliche term, but I would
love

1161
00:59:33,127 --> 00:59:36,597
for you to keep coming back
whenever you can, because I feel

1162
00:59:36,597 --> 00:59:39,966

like we're, we're all, we're
very similar in how we think


1163
00:59:39,974 --> 00:59:43,268
about podcasting, and I would
just be great to have your voice

1164
00:59:43,268 --> 00:59:45,163

be a part of this whenever
possible.

1165
00:59:45,163 --> 00:59:47,410
So that's an open
invitation
for us.

1166
00:59:47,410 --> 00:59:47,826
Arielle Nissenblatt: Thank you.


1167
00:59:47,834 --> 00:59:49,120
I had a lot of fun.
Thank you for having me.

1168
00:59:49,300 --> 00:59:50,618
Marc Ronick: Yep, thank you.

You're welcome.

1169
00:59:50,618 --> 00:59:53,632
All right, so we are back
tomorrow with all
things

1170
00:59:53,632 --> 00:59:57,030
podcasting news, so come join us
for our news and comment


1171
00:59:57,038 --> 01:00:00,680
episode that we do every
Wednesday, 8am Eastern, you can

1172
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:04,290
learn more at Podcasting
Morning show.com/join us.

1173
01:00:04,290 --> 01:00:09,670
So, until
tomorrow, make it a
great day, everybody.

1174
01:00:09,670 --> 01:00:10,350
Take care.