553. The Hardest Podcasting Decisions Explained

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Marc Ronick: Good morning,

podcasters.

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Today is Tuesday, july 21 2026
and today we're
making the

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toughest podcasting decisions
without using the
words "it

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depends.
Every dilemma forces us to

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choose, defend our
answer and
discover what matters most as

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creators.
So, if you're
listening live

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on Clubhouse, hit the share
button, top right hand
side of

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the screen, and share it however
Clubhouse lets you.

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And
if you're catching us via
podcast, YouTube, etc. please


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share this episode with a fellow
podcaster.

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And now, give me
about 30
seconds, and we'll get things

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rolling.
Thanks for being
here.

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The podcasting morning show is
powered by Ironick
Media,

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helping podcasters launch,
polish, and grow great
shows,

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and by Content creators,
accountant, helping creators


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build real business behind their
content.

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Good morning again,
podcasting
morning show.

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Thank you so much for being
here.

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I am
your host, Mark Ronick,
and currently on stage with me,

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my
co-hosts.
We have Ralph Eastep, D.R.

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Fay, Sid Meadows, and B.C.

Babbles.

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Also on stage with us here on
Clubhouse, we have Dan


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Schultz, Tide Tudoring, aka
Nikki, and also Rez, aka DJ Rez,

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and if you're watching us live
on the video streams, welcome.


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We've been having a little
trouble seeing the chat lately


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on Riverside.
I haven't taken enough time to

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really figure out
why I can't
anymore.

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So, if you're chatting us over
there
and we're a little slow

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to respond, that's why.
But Ralph,
I know you usually

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keep an eye on YouTube, right?
Ralph Estep Jr.: Yes, sir.

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I
keep an eye on it, and I am
live on YouTube, so feel free to

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join
in the chat.
Marc Ronick: Awesome, thank you.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: And you can see

that I've got I'm rocking the

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the old mic back.
Marc Ronick: Yes, you are.

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You
got rid of the other one,
the fancy looking one.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: The fancy one

just didn't sound as good as

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this one.
Marc Ronick: Well, okay, so


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you're back to the Shure SM7B,
and we also have, by the way,


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special guest Jason Circon, my
business partner for Empowered


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Podcasting.
Welcome, Jason.

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What's up, everybody?
Great to
have you here.

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I was hoping to also get another
special guest.


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I was hoping Nick Nallback be
able to return today.

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Oh, he has
a change in
schedule that's going to make it

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a little more
flexible for him
to join us.

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By the way, did I say Sid
Meadows
is on stage with us?

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Not sure if I actually said that
or not.

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So
please forgive me, Sid.
And by the way, you can learn

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about Sid
and Nick and all the
other people I just mentioned

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over at

podcastingmorningshow.com/people

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Okay, so we are going to dive

into things.

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I wanted to.
There were a couple things I

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wanted to
actually get to
first.

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Usually, lately we've been doing
on
Tuesdays interviews.

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We didn't have an interview
scheduled for
today.

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That's why we're going to be
playing this game.

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It's very
much like Would You
Rather, and I'll explain more in

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a moment.

But we are working on a guest

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because Dr. You were, I guess,

dealing with some social media

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challenges over the weekend, and

you posted in our Empowered

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Podcasting Facebook group

looking for a social media

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manager.
Curious, what were the


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struggles that you were dealing
with?

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Because we found somebody
to
join us, maybe as soon as this

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Thursday.
It depends on
some programming

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stuff.
DR: Yeah, so because of AI, I


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have had to expand what Mouthy
Broad Media, my company, does,


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and I have added press releases
to the whole you know repertoire

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of things.
I've added social media

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management.
I've added
this.

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I've added that.
Now I'm not doing social media.

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I'm
getting.
I'm outsourcing that.

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Marc Ronick: Sure.
DR: But it has proven I have two

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new clients, basically coming
on at the same time, and both of

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them are interested in the
social media management.

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And one
of them had questions
that I couldn't really answer

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very
quickly, so that's why I
had to kind of go out and reach

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out to
some maybe empowered
podcasting people, and I think I

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put the
note on some other
platforms, and I just had

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questions, and I
wanted to be
perfectly transparent that I was

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not
hiring.
I just Marc Ronick: that's a

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hard thing
on social media to
ask a question without getting

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then
bombarded with the people
that often.

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DR: And I apologize.
I'm not
hiring.

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I just really need some
questions answered.

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And holy
cow, Eddie, Eddie,
dude, so generous with his.

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Eddie
Garrison, yes, Marc
Ronick: he's going to be a


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speaker at Empowered Podcasting
as well in August this summer,


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and yeah.
So when I saw he jumped in and

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said, "Hey, I can
help you, I
reached out to him.

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Why not?
Let's bring somebody
who's

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part of our community here and
talk about some of the
social

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media challenges that you have,
but also in general, how
we

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can use social media more
effectively for us in our


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podcast.
DR: And it's a way to also to


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interview him.
It's also going to promote him.

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It's a way of
thanking him for
all the beautiful resources that

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he just
handed over to me.
Awesome.

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So yeah, yeah.
Marc Ronick: So we'll do that.


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Maybe we'll ask him about those
resources, learn more about


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those things.
I think it'll be an interesting.

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We haven't
really done a
social media episode in a while,

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so I think
it's overdue.
So we will do that either this

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Thursday or next
Tuesday.
I will keep you posted.

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We also have an evaluation that
the team has started already

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listening to has already

evaluated at least several

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people have and Nikki, it's your

show.

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I know you're on stage with us,
so thank you for
submitting.

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I know it's been a minute.
You submitted last
month, I

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believe, and we're getting to it
now.

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At least half
the team has
already listened, so I will also

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let you know if
it happens
this Thursday or next.

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So more to come on that
today.
I picked today's game because

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podcasters have choices
that
they have to make all the time,

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and most of those choices
come
with a trade-off.

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For example, more listeners or a

more engaged community, better

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episodes or more frequent

episodes.

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Are you searching for
recognition or revenue, creative

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freedom or financial
stability?

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We usually want to say it

depends because there's a case

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to be made for both sides.
So
this morning, I want to

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force ourselves to pick one,
similarly
to how we played

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that other game.
Keep it, dump it, change
it.

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Last week, so for each dilemma,
you'll get two choices,
A or

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B, and then everyone will choose
their answer first.

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Don't
give me long
explanations.

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I just want your answers first,
and then a couple of you will

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get a chance to explain and

defend your answer.

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It depends.
Can be a part of your


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explanation, but it can't be
your answer.

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It can't be your
choice.
Okay, so I think what I want to

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do is start with a warm
up
that affects how a lot of us

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actually make our shows.

Remember, it's just a warm up

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question.
This is going to kind
of maybe

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feel like a softball question to
some of you, but
that's the

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idea here.
If you had to choose one way to

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record
every episode, would
you rather record in person or

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would you
rather record
remotely?

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All right.
Wow.

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DR just came right
off mic.
I want to answer.

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I want to answer.
Okay.

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So DR will
go to you, and then
we'll go down the row A or B.

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So again, A
is you would
rather record in person.

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B remotely.
Go ahead,
DR. DR: B remote.

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Marc Ronick: Okay, Ralph.
How
about you?

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Ralph Estep Jr.: I would rather
do A.

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Marc Ronick: Okay, Ralph would

rather do it in person.

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Okay, let's keep going down the
the
row here, Sid.

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How about you?
Sid Meadows: Yeah.

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Good morning,
everybody.
I do them virtually, and they

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work.
But I would much
more prefer

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to do them in person.
I think the chemistry
and the

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body language and all that
stuff.

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DR: Hey, you're going against

the rules.

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Going against rules.
No explanation.

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Marc Ronick: Sorry, I was just

looking for a buzzer.

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Sid Meadows: Sorry, I wasn't

listening.

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Sorry, I wasn't paying
attention.

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Marc Ronick: That's okay.
Sid Meadows: Going back on you.

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Marc Ronick: B C.
What say you?


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A or B?
A being you would record in

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person.
B remotely.

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BC Babbles: A in person all the
way.

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Marc Ronick: In person.
So most
people are saying in

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person, except for you, Dr.
Right?

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You
said remote.
Okay, let's go to Dan.

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Dan: Remote.
Marc Ronick: Dan prefers remote.

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There you go, Knikki.

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Do you want to play along?
Knikki: Sure, I pick remote.

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Marc Ronick: Okay, and there you

go.

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It's just when I say it, it
starts evening out.

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Res, you get
the last vote
Rez: in person.

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Marc Ronick: All right, so I

think in person just squeaks it

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out.
Let's go to Sid first.

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DR: Did Jason give?
Marc Ronick: Oh, Jason, my bad,

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Jason.
Please forgive me.

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Jason: I'm on camera, and you

forgot about.

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Marc Ronick: I know.
Please
forgive me.

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Jason: I'd say in person.
Marc Ronick: All right.

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DR: Oh, damn.
The only reason
why I brought

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up your news because I thought
you were going
to say

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whatever.
No, sorry.

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Marc Ronick: All right, we'll go

to Sid first, and then because

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I forgot, Jason, we'll go to
Jason
next.

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Go ahead, Sid.
Sid Meadows: What are you coming

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to me for?
Marc Ronick: I want to hear your

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reasoning.
Finish up what you were sharing.

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Sid Meadows: Oh, so now I'm

supposed to talk.

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Yes.
Okay.

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So I just mean I record
virtually
now.

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I have four recordings this
week, and they're great, and I


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really enjoy them.
It's super easy to do from

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anywhere, and
where my over my
guests are, you know, wherever.

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It makes the
ability to access
them super easy, right?

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But I just think
that the
chemistry of recording in person

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is so much stronger,
and your
ability to build a stronger

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connection when you're
sitting
across to the table from

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somebody or on a chair next to

them, I think it just creates a

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better dynamic and you know more

engaging conversation.

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Marc Ronick: Fair enough.
Fair
enough.

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I'll share my thoughts in a
second, but first, let's go
to

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Jason.
Jason, so you also chose in

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person.
Jason: Yeah, what Sid said.


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That's really my answer.
I think if I could add one thing

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to it,
I look at podcasting on
the level of networking and

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building
relationships, and
the recording is just the first

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part of that.

If there's synergy in that

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element, then you can probably

take it to the next level where

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you would connect on a call that

would be plotting world

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domination, quote unquote.
So
doing that in person, you

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have that ability right on the
spot.


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That's why I prefer that method.
Marc Ronick: Okay.

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00:10:59,914 --> 00:11:02,774
Yeah, I like
that add-on.
Thank you for that, Jason and

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DR. Since you said
remote,
let's go to you.

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00:11:06,023 --> 00:11:09,325
Why did you choose remote over
in
person?

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00:11:09,325 --> 00:11:14,242
DR: It just feels cleaner.
The
audio can be cleaner.

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00:11:14,242 --> 00:11:18,037
I like the two separate tracks.
I don't
know.

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I just yeah.
Marc Ronick: I mean, you can do

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00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:23,580
the two separate tracks, and
you can have pretty clean sound

220
00:11:23,580 --> 00:11:26,425
in
person too.
DR: But with the, you're always

221
00:11:26,425 --> 00:11:29,590
worried about the the bleed,
and yeah, you know.

222
00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:33,310
Marc Ronick: So the bleed-that's

a wheel of jargon term, right?

223
00:11:33,310 --> 00:11:38,942
The the bleed is when your audio

from your there it is.

224
00:11:38,942 --> 00:11:42,970
Wheel of jargon when the sound
is coming
out of your

225
00:11:42,970 --> 00:11:47,698
headphones and your microphone
is picking it up, DR: or if you

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00:11:47,698 --> 00:11:51,817
were in a live
situation with
a someone in the room, what they

227
00:11:51,817 --> 00:11:55,639
are saying is
coming through
on your microphone, correct, and

228
00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:57,265
vice
versa.
Marc Ronick: Yes, Jason, were


229
00:11:57,273 --> 00:11:59,365
you going to add something?
Jason: Yeah, I was going to SDR.

230
00:11:59,365 --> 00:12:02,080

Would you change your thinking
if you were in a professional


231
00:12:02,088 --> 00:12:05,154
studio where all of the
microphones were connected


232
00:12:05,162 --> 00:12:08,724
properly, and you're able to
Marc Ronick: spaced accordingly,

233
00:12:08,724 --> 00:12:11,338

yeah, Jason: dump out all the
stuff
that you're worried

234
00:12:11,338 --> 00:12:14,049
about if you're setting it up
yourself
versus you know doing

235
00:12:14,049 --> 00:12:16,667
it like we're doing today.
DR: I don't know.

236
00:12:16,667 --> 00:12:20,802
You know, I
had the most
horrendous experience recently

237
00:12:20,802 --> 00:12:27,130
trying to
edit some recorded
video with two guests and a

238
00:12:27,130 --> 00:12:29,258
host, and it
was it was
comical.

239
00:12:29,258 --> 00:12:33,138
It was like the Three Stooges.
It was the
most horrible

240
00:12:33,138 --> 00:12:35,984
thing, and so maybe I'm stinging
a little bit
from that.

241
00:12:35,984 --> 00:12:38,420
You're a little Jason: jaded.
Oh, it was bad.


242
00:12:38,428 --> 00:12:42,692
I'm going to be honest.
Marc Ronick: Like I think my


243
00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:47,530
opinion is the podcast most of
the time is going to be a better

244
00:12:47,530 --> 00:12:51,040

one, for lack of a better
word, if it is in person.

245
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,700
There is
something like Sid
said and Jason echoed as far as

246
00:12:54,700 --> 00:12:57,225
that
chemistry.
There, it feels like the

247
00:12:57,225 --> 00:13:00,570
chemistry develops a lot

quicker and feels a little more

248
00:13:00,660 --> 00:13:03,430
natural.
At the same time, I
know that

249
00:13:03,430 --> 00:13:06,036
I've gotten so used to doing it
remotely.

250
00:13:06,036 --> 00:13:09,584
I think it
would take me a
while to get comfortable always

251
00:13:09,584 --> 00:13:14,800
doing a show
in person.
DR: Well, Knikki also said


252
00:13:14,808 --> 00:13:17,860
remotely, and so did Dan.
I think.

253
00:13:17,860 --> 00:13:19,604
Marc Ronick: Yeah.
Did anyone
else want to defend

254
00:13:19,604 --> 00:13:21,160
that?
Go ahead, Dan.

255
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,850
Dan: I like that I use

Riverside, and I like everything

256
00:13:24,850 --> 00:13:28,000
to be neat and in order for my

OCD.

257
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,205
And I love knowing that I can go
back four months ago and
grab

258
00:13:32,205 --> 00:13:35,440
the one file from my co-host,
and I can do whatever I
want

259
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,138
with it.
I think that's all important.

260
00:13:37,138 --> 00:13:39,711
Jason's right,
though.
I mean, if you have it set up

261
00:13:39,711 --> 00:13:42,007
properly, you can still
do the
consistent.

262
00:13:42,007 --> 00:13:44,731
I mean, but I really hate all of
the bleed.

263
00:13:44,731 --> 00:13:46,869
I
hate.
I want editing to be as simple

264
00:13:46,869 --> 00:13:50,243
as it can be because I
spend
enough time on it on purpose.

265
00:13:50,243 --> 00:13:54,231
Like I really want to
spend
time making really good edits as

266
00:13:54,231 --> 00:13:56,379
opposed to cutting out
mic
bleed.

267
00:13:56,379 --> 00:14:00,170
So I want it to be one spot.
Everything's the same.


268
00:14:00,178 --> 00:14:02,440
I know she recorded at this
level.

269
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,840
I recorded at this level.

Blah blah blah.

270
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,774
Everything with me is like
frameworks and
getting stuff

271
00:14:07,774 --> 00:14:11,018
from Riverside into Descript,
into whatever I'm
editing, and

272
00:14:11,018 --> 00:14:14,760
then it's nice and easy.
Marc Ronick: All right, there


273
00:14:14,768 --> 00:14:15,769
you go.
Thank you, Dan.

274
00:14:15,769 --> 00:14:18,418
All right, let's keep moving
because
that was a warm up,

275
00:14:18,418 --> 00:14:22,011
and I don't want to get too
caught in the
weeds on that

276
00:14:22,011 --> 00:14:26,275
one, so let's keep it going.
Would you rather
10,000

277
00:14:26,275 --> 00:14:31,569
listeners who rarely interact
with you, or 500
listeners who

278
00:14:31,569 --> 00:14:34,357
regularly respond, share, and
participate?

279
00:14:34,357 --> 00:14:38,985
So
again, 10,000 listeners who
rarely interact, but they do


280
00:14:38,993 --> 00:14:43,340
clearly show up because you know
that they they exist according


281
00:14:43,348 --> 00:14:47,395
to your analytics, or 500
listeners who regularly respond,

282
00:14:47,395 --> 00:14:50,485

share, and participate.
Now I have a feeling I'm going

283
00:14:50,485 --> 00:14:53,282
to
guess, but I want you guys
to be really honest about this,

284
00:14:53,282 --> 00:14:55,900
okay?

Because I know that there is the

285
00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:59,560
correct answer, quote unquote.

But like, let's talk about this.

286
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,153
So let's.
Let's go down the
line, Ralph.

287
00:15:01,153 --> 00:15:04,056
I'm starting with you.
Ralph Estep Jr.: I'll take the


288
00:15:04,064 --> 00:15:05,794
500 Marc Ronick: I feel like
we're
playing Jeopardy.

289
00:15:05,794 --> 00:15:07,562
I'll take 500 Alex.
Ralph Estep Jr.: I'll take the


290
00:15:07,570 --> 00:15:11,628
500 Marc Ronick: Alex.
Go ahead, DR. DR: 500 Marc

291
00:15:11,628 --> 00:15:14,216
Ronick: Okay, Jason.
Yeah,
this is too easy. 500

292
00:15:14,216 --> 00:15:16,278
All right, we'll go through this
one
quickly.

293
00:15:16,278 --> 00:15:18,540
Sid, how about you?
I have a feeling I know your


294
00:15:18,548 --> 00:15:21,321
answer too.
Sid Meadows: 500 Marc Ronick: I

295
00:15:21,321 --> 00:15:24,380
promise you guys,
these get a
little more intense as we go.

296
00:15:24,380 --> 00:15:27,639
BC, go ahead.
BC Babbles: 500 All Marc Ronick:

297
00:15:27,639 --> 00:15:29,864
right, I'm going to
stop.
Does anybody have a different

298
00:15:29,864 --> 00:15:32,901
answer?
Does anyone
say 10,000 I want

299
00:15:32,901 --> 00:15:35,478
to share this.
I did pause.

300
00:15:35,478 --> 00:15:38,880
Now, obviously,
yes.
I want people to interact,

301
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,760
respond, help share.
That's what
makes this show go

302
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,911
round.
Do we have 500 regular listeners

303
00:15:43,911 --> 00:15:46,389
every
episode?
No, we have less than that.

304
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:50,568
Being transparent with
you,
and I'd still take that over

305
00:15:50,568 --> 00:15:55,995
10,000 But I will say there
is
something attractive about

306
00:15:55,995 --> 00:16:01,725
having 10,000 listeners, and I

will say that I know that there

307
00:16:01,725 --> 00:16:07,065
are advertisers, sponsors out

there that they are driven by

308
00:16:07,065 --> 00:16:10,584
the big numbers, regardless of

what we say is important.

309
00:16:10,584 --> 00:16:13,941
There are sponsors out there
that that
number means they

310
00:16:13,941 --> 00:16:18,585
may want to work with you.
So I can't knock
somebody for

311
00:16:18,585 --> 00:16:22,392
saying they want 10,000
listeners because I know
that

312
00:16:22,392 --> 00:16:25,114
there are other advantages that
come with that.

313
00:16:25,114 --> 00:16:26,850
So I think
yeah, this is
where.

314
00:16:26,850 --> 00:16:29,670
Ralph Estep Jr.: But Marc, isn't

that a lot of ego in that too?

315
00:16:29,670 --> 00:16:30,890
Though to be blunt, Marc Ronick:
yes.

316
00:16:31,340 --> 00:16:32,930
Ralph Estep Jr.: And I, you

know, it's funny because this

317
00:16:33,050 --> 00:16:35,030
month, July, has been an

interesting month for my daily

318
00:16:35,180 --> 00:16:36,932
show.
I'm probably going to have


319
00:16:36,940 --> 00:16:39,710
close to 40,000 downloads this
month because I've been doing a

320
00:16:39,710 --> 00:16:42,315
lot of push on that.
Nice, and you know that's a huge

321
00:16:42,315 --> 00:16:44,836
growth
for me.
And part of that is an ego thing

322
00:16:44,836 --> 00:16:46,855
because I'm thinking,
yeah,
but this isn't making me any

323
00:16:46,855 --> 00:16:48,850
more money.
But so, so
strategically, I'm

324
00:16:48,850 --> 00:16:51,750
thinking, oh, that's great.
But I just worry
that we get

325
00:16:51,750 --> 00:16:54,700
stuck on the ego for that.
I'm not disagreeing with
you.

326
00:16:54,700 --> 00:16:57,340
There are sponsorship
opportunities if the audience is

327
00:16:57,340 --> 00:16:59,977

bigger, but if we're really
talking about monetization, I


328
00:16:59,985 --> 00:17:03,324
think we really need to focus on
the smaller, engaged audiences.

329
00:17:03,324 --> 00:17:05,069

But I understand both sides of

330
00:17:05,069 --> 00:17:06,074
this one.
Marc Ronick: Yeah.

331
00:17:06,074 --> 00:17:08,965
Anybody else
want to chime in
on that or respond to what I

332
00:17:08,965 --> 00:17:10,082
said, Jason?

The 10.

333
00:17:10,082 --> 00:17:11,750
Do I go to Jason?
Okay.

334
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:14,489
Go ahead., DR DR: Oh, sorry.
The 10,000 It's
like you're

335
00:17:14,489 --> 00:17:19,020
speaking into the void.
There's no no gage to tell
you

336
00:17:19,020 --> 00:17:22,627
that you're doing good.
They they agree with you, that

337
00:17:22,627 --> 00:17:25,482
they
disagree with you.
It's just speaking into a void,

338
00:17:25,482 --> 00:17:29,072
and at
least if you had some
engaged listeners, that could

339
00:17:29,072 --> 00:17:32,325
only make
your show better.
Marc Ronick: Okay, and Jason,


340
00:17:32,333 --> 00:17:34,382
your thoughts?
Jason: Yeah, there's a lot to


341
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:36,040
it.
I think it comes down to what

342
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,560
you want to accomplish.
If
you are working a pure CPM

343
00:17:39,650 --> 00:17:42,130
model, then yeah, 10,000

downloads is going to help you

344
00:17:42,190 --> 00:17:45,510
make more money.
But the artist
nailed it

345
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:48,859
perfectly, and I echo a lot of
that with what I'm
seeing on

346
00:17:48,859 --> 00:17:51,382
LinkedIn with all these bots
that are constantly
commenting

347
00:17:51,382 --> 00:17:54,412
or reaching out and saying they
want to blow up your
numbers.

348
00:17:54,412 --> 00:17:57,418
Is any of it real?
I mean, some of it you have to


349
00:17:57,426 --> 00:18:00,905
believe just based off of law of
averages that your numbers are


350
00:18:00,913 --> 00:18:05,934
legit, but of that 10,000 how
much of it is just bot nonsense

351
00:18:05,934 --> 00:18:08,400
that's inflating your metrics
for nothing?

352
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,660
That's a hard sell
to make to
a potential sponsor, but at the

353
00:18:12,660 --> 00:18:15,918
same time, if they're
only
looking at a big number, then it

354
00:18:15,918 --> 00:18:18,360
could be in your favor.

So I think it really boils down

355
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:20,010
to what you want to accomplish

with your show.

356
00:18:20,939 --> 00:18:23,689
Marc Ronick: Okay, and then I'm
going to go to BC, and then

357
00:18:24,049 --> 00:18:26,125
Alex, and then we're going to go

to the next question.

358
00:18:26,125 --> 00:18:27,875
BC, I saw you put something in
the chat.


359
00:18:27,883 --> 00:18:29,779
So, did you want to share here
out loud?

360
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,330
BC Babbles: Sure, real quick.
So
I said you can't pitch

361
00:18:32,330 --> 00:18:35,144
10,000 followers when you only
have
1500 that actually

362
00:18:35,144 --> 00:18:36,800
engage.
That's that's the number that


363
00:18:36,808 --> 00:18:38,586
matters.
But also, we don't know whether

364
00:18:38,586 --> 00:18:42,010
or not you had a surge
of
followers come in because you

365
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:43,540
had a weird one-off piece of

content.

366
00:18:43,540 --> 00:18:47,125
I had a surge a couple years ago
on TikTok for a piece
of

367
00:18:47,125 --> 00:18:50,953
content I don't do anymore, and
my actual content that I do


368
00:18:50,961 --> 00:18:55,372
every every day now, I don't get
2400 views or 2400 pieces of


369
00:18:55,380 --> 00:18:59,332
engagement because it's now
irrelevant to that one off that

370
00:18:59,332 --> 00:19:02,700
caused the surge.
So the number's there, but the


371
00:19:02,708 --> 00:19:04,865
activity's not.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, that makes


372
00:19:04,873 --> 00:19:06,320
sense.
All right, I'm going to go to

373
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:07,440
Alex.
Go ahead, Alex.

374
00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:09,354
Alex: Hey guys.
Yeah, it just
depends on what

375
00:19:09,354 --> 00:19:12,010
you're going to do with them,
and I think that's
the main

376
00:19:12,010 --> 00:19:13,828
thing.
Like what BC was saying, you

377
00:19:13,828 --> 00:19:17,631
might get those
one-offs, but
even if you do have that, if

378
00:19:17,631 --> 00:19:22,362
it's 10,000 and
you only have
really 1500 you know, they're

379
00:19:22,362 --> 00:19:25,430
still engaging.

Whether they a lot, what we fail

380
00:19:25,550 --> 00:19:28,640
to realize is, and this drives

me nut as someone that posts

381
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,726
stuff.
You'll post all the time,
and

382
00:19:30,726 --> 00:19:34,070
then all of a sudden, you'll
post something that's kind of


383
00:19:34,078 --> 00:19:36,932
obscure, and then people will
start commenting on it.

384
00:19:36,932 --> 00:19:41,514
And you
know, I really do
believe that you know, with that

385
00:19:41,514 --> 00:19:45,480
10,000
whether it's real or
not, it's where you can kind of

386
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,310
push them
to go.
And if you do have that core,

387
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:49,990
maybe you can increase
that
core over time.

388
00:19:50,679 --> 00:19:52,399
Marc Ronick: Okay, thank you,

Alex and Dan.

389
00:19:52,399 --> 00:19:56,136
I'm going to give you and Sid
the final word, and
then we're

390
00:19:56,136 --> 00:19:57,879
going to move on to the next
one.

391
00:19:57,879 --> 00:19:59,830
Go ahead, Dan.
Dan: I wasn't going to comment,

392
00:19:59,830 --> 00:20:01,768
but.
If you really do have 500 that

393
00:20:01,768 --> 00:20:05,122
are engaged, that is what
I'd
always rather have because you

394
00:20:05,122 --> 00:20:07,218
can easily turn.
If they're
really engaged, you

395
00:20:07,218 --> 00:20:11,008
can easily have them grow the
500 to 10,000
It's just all

396
00:20:11,008 --> 00:20:14,730
about how you use them to do it.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, that's a


397
00:20:14,738 --> 00:20:17,451
great point.
Yeah, if you've got the group of

398
00:20:17,451 --> 00:20:20,960
engaged listeners
or an
engaged community, there's a lot

399
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,888
you can build from there,
so
that yeah, excellent point, Dan.

400
00:20:23,888 --> 00:20:27,260
Sid, how about you?
Sid Meadows: So I want to be


401
00:20:27,268 --> 00:20:28,730
clear.
I would love to open up

402
00:20:28,790 --> 00:20:31,910
Buzzsprout and see that an

episode that my episodes are

403
00:20:31,970 --> 00:20:34,562
getting an average of 10,000

downloads per episode.

404
00:20:34,562 --> 00:20:38,616
I would love that, and my
sponsors would
love it as

405
00:20:38,616 --> 00:20:41,441
well.
It but the engagement of the

406
00:20:41,441 --> 00:20:45,775
listeners that
I have now is
really high, so yeah, I want

407
00:20:45,775 --> 00:20:49,598
10,000 but I want
10,000
engaged, and that relies on me

408
00:20:49,598 --> 00:20:53,579
providing valuable content
and
insights that that they want to

409
00:20:53,579 --> 00:20:55,600
listen to and they want to

hear.

410
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,306
So, is it possible?
Yes, possible.

411
00:20:57,306 --> 00:20:59,644
It's going to take a
heck of a
lot of work in order to get

412
00:20:59,644 --> 00:21:02,083
10,000 listeners, and I
would
absolutely love it, but I don't

413
00:21:02,083 --> 00:21:04,272
want it as a one-off viral

moment.

414
00:21:04,272 --> 00:21:07,002
I want it consistently, and I
want 10,000 engaged
listeners

415
00:21:07,002 --> 00:21:10,350
that are going to take action
and move the needle
forward

416
00:21:10,350 --> 00:21:12,900
for not just my show, but for
their business.

417
00:21:13,810 --> 00:21:15,238
Marc Ronick: Fair enough.
Fair
enough.

418
00:21:15,238 --> 00:21:18,781
Okay, so yes, not one of the
choices, but yes, I asked
for

419
00:21:18,781 --> 00:21:20,350
explanations, and I appreciate
your answer.

420
00:21:20,380 --> 00:21:21,584
Ralph Estep Jr.: Can I throw

something in there?

421
00:21:21,584 --> 00:21:23,194
Because Res put something in the
YouTube
chat.

422
00:21:23,194 --> 00:21:24,608
I think we should address.
Okay.

423
00:21:24,608 --> 00:21:27,820
And Rez said in there that

well, if you have 10,000 you'll

424
00:21:27,820 --> 00:21:30,580
make more money, and I want to

challenge that because that's

425
00:21:30,580 --> 00:21:33,880
not necessarily true.
And I
think there's a lot of

426
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,359
content creators that think if
you have
numbers, you're going

427
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,260
to make more money with your
show.


428
00:21:38,268 --> 00:21:41,710
That's not necessarily true.
If you've got 500 engaged people

429
00:21:41,710 --> 00:21:45,427

that are interested in the
products and services that you


430
00:21:45,435 --> 00:21:47,677
offer.
I can show you truthfully that

431
00:21:47,677 --> 00:21:50,485
that can make ton more
money
than 10,000 I just I just wanted

432
00:21:50,485 --> 00:21:52,455
to correct the record
there a
little bit because I I think

433
00:21:52,455 --> 00:21:55,915
it's a popular
misconception
of people in in podcasting.

434
00:21:55,915 --> 00:21:57,897
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I agree with
you, Ralph.

435
00:21:57,897 --> 00:22:00,776
And I think think about that
even if the argument
is well,

436
00:22:00,776 --> 00:22:03,718
yeah, you can make money with
10,000 listeners with
a

437
00:22:03,718 --> 00:22:05,341
sponsor, right, or multiple
sponsors.

438
00:22:05,341 --> 00:22:08,298
But here's the truth,
and I've
seen this happen firsthand.

439
00:22:08,298 --> 00:22:12,496
When you have a show
with a
lot of listeners that don't

440
00:22:12,496 --> 00:22:16,870
really interact, that also

applies to responding to those

441
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:20,178
advertisements.
They're not
doing what the

442
00:22:20,178 --> 00:22:23,893
advertiser is hoping they do go
buy that
product, go sign up

443
00:22:23,893 --> 00:22:27,340
for that service, whatever it
is, and
then they leave.

444
00:22:27,340 --> 00:22:31,051
So yeah, you might get make a
little money at
the front of

445
00:22:31,051 --> 00:22:34,355
it, but it doesn't last.
Whereas when you have an


446
00:22:34,363 --> 00:22:38,070
engaged audience of a smaller
engaged audience, you can sell


447
00:22:38,078 --> 00:22:40,915
products and services.
They're going to eat that up,

448
00:22:40,915 --> 00:22:43,429
whether
they're yours or
someone else's, and that's going

449
00:22:43,429 --> 00:22:46,490
to encourage
you or the
advertiser to keep going, keep

450
00:22:46,490 --> 00:22:49,380
selling those
products and
services to that audience.

451
00:22:49,380 --> 00:22:50,990
So it is something to
think
about.

452
00:22:50,990 --> 00:22:53,548
I'm glad that you called that
out there, Ralph.


453
00:22:53,556 --> 00:22:55,977
Thank you.
All right, would you rather

454
00:22:55,977 --> 00:23:00,640
double the number of new

listeners finding your show, or

455
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,930
double the percentage of

listeners who return for another

456
00:23:04,930 --> 00:23:07,303
episode.
Okay, so double the
number A

457
00:23:07,303 --> 00:23:10,865
is double the number of new
listeners that find you.

458
00:23:10,865 --> 00:23:15,855
B
is double the percentage of
listeners who return for another

459
00:23:15,855 --> 00:23:18,468

episode.
Two very different things.

460
00:23:18,468 --> 00:23:21,535
Go ahead, DR. DR: I'm going to
say A, I think.

461
00:23:21,535 --> 00:23:23,585
Marc Ronick: Okay, A.
So she's
gonna say she wants

462
00:23:23,585 --> 00:23:26,227
to double new listeners that
find her
show.

463
00:23:26,227 --> 00:23:28,765
Jason, how about you?
Jason: B.

464
00:23:28,765 --> 00:23:31,105
Marc Ronick: All right, Dave.

All right, and Ralph.

465
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,490
Ralph Estep Jr.: I'm gonna go

with A, Alex.

466
00:23:33,670 --> 00:23:37,138
Marc Ronick: Okay, Sid.
Sid Meadows: I'm gonna go with


467
00:23:37,146 --> 00:23:41,088
C, which is both.
Marc Ronick: Got to pick one as

468
00:23:41,088 --> 00:23:47,725
big as Sid Meadows: I'm gonna
actually
pick the Marc Ronick:

469
00:23:47,725 --> 00:23:49,299
returning episodes.

Okay, returning two more

470
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:50,709
episodes.
Okay, fair B C.

471
00:23:52,059 --> 00:23:53,049
BC Babbles: I'm gonna go with

new listeners.

472
00:23:53,679 --> 00:23:57,099
Marc Ronick: Okay, Dan, Dan: I'm
gonna go returning B.

473
00:23:57,790 --> 00:23:59,594
Marc Ronick: All right, we kind
of have a split going.

474
00:23:59,594 --> 00:24:01,670
I think right now, go ahead,
Nikki.

475
00:24:01,670 --> 00:24:03,990
I'll
come back to you, Nikki
Rez.

476
00:24:04,650 --> 00:24:06,632
There she is.
Knikki: My fault.

477
00:24:06,632 --> 00:24:08,234
I was sending
an email.
Could you remind me of the

478
00:24:08,234 --> 00:24:09,885
question?
Marc Ronick: Double the number


479
00:24:09,893 --> 00:24:12,585
of new listeners finding your
show, or double the percentage


480
00:24:12,593 --> 00:24:15,000
of listeners who return for
another episode.

481
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,474
Knikki: I would say return.
Marc Ronick: Okay, return.

482
00:24:17,474 --> 00:24:19,560
Go
ahead, Rez.
Rez: Return for sure.

483
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:20,750
Marc Ronick: Alex, you want to

play along?

484
00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:24,983
Alex: Yeah, I say B.
Marc Ronick: Okay, Alex: and I'm

485
00:24:24,983 --> 00:24:26,390
surprised people
were saying A
as much.

486
00:24:26,990 --> 00:24:28,666
Marc Ronick: Yeah, well, since

we got you, why do you?

487
00:24:28,666 --> 00:24:32,135
Why are you surprised?
Alex: Well, you know, I'm gonna

488
00:24:32,135 --> 00:24:34,620
I'm gonna pick on DR. and
Ralph.

489
00:24:34,620 --> 00:24:38,040
You know, in one breath, you

were saying it's about the

490
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:43,590
retention of your listeners, and

if you can, if you have 500

491
00:24:43,590 --> 00:24:48,570
listeners that are loyal, it's

better than 10,000 So I mean

492
00:24:48,570 --> 00:24:51,564
that that's kind of the way I

was going about it.

493
00:24:51,564 --> 00:24:55,345
I mean you know just because
people see
your feed doesn't

494
00:24:55,345 --> 00:24:59,511
mean they actually engage with
it versus
people that are

495
00:24:59,511 --> 00:25:01,825
engaging.
I just think it's you want to

496
00:25:01,825 --> 00:25:05,013
build
that, as we like to say,
that community of people that

497
00:25:05,013 --> 00:25:09,049
that
really wanna that are
passionate about your topic, and

498
00:25:09,049 --> 00:25:12,045
if they're
engaging, I'm all
for it.

499
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,228
Marc Ronick: Yeah, DR: and just
because they're
returning for

500
00:25:15,228 --> 00:25:18,981
a second episode doesn't mean
that they're
engaging, Marc

501
00:25:18,981 --> 00:25:20,007
Ronick: right?
So that's
the thing.

502
00:25:20,007 --> 00:25:21,427
Is I think there is a
correlation.

503
00:25:21,427 --> 00:25:25,140
There is a
correlation there.
Alex, can you mute because it

504
00:25:25,140 --> 00:25:26,509
makes?
Alex: Oh, I was going to say


505
00:25:26,517 --> 00:25:28,750
they're all those guys are all
the the 10,000 people.

506
00:25:28,750 --> 00:25:33,510
They're
all a bunch of Android
users, so it doesn't really

507
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:37,843
astruct noise.
Marc Ronick: There is there is a

508
00:25:37,843 --> 00:25:40,755

difference between retention
and engagement, but there's a


509
00:25:40,763 --> 00:25:44,175
difference and there's a
correlation because I think that

510
00:25:44,175 --> 00:25:48,180

if you've got their retention,
if they are listening, they're


511
00:25:48,188 --> 00:25:52,180
probably going to be interested
in coming back again to the next

512
00:25:52,180 --> 00:25:53,976

one.
And if they're engaging, that

513
00:25:53,976 --> 00:25:56,845
also is a sign that they're

going to keep coming back.

514
00:25:56,845 --> 00:25:59,345
But they're not necessarily

identical either.

515
00:25:59,345 --> 00:26:03,690
Does anyone anyone want to
defend their
answer?

516
00:26:03,690 --> 00:26:05,850
Ralph Estep Jr.: I do.
I want to
defend the new ones,

517
00:26:05,850 --> 00:26:08,272
and I'll tell you why.
Because I have
confidence in

518
00:26:08,272 --> 00:26:11,262
the content I put out, and if I
have somebody that
gets to

519
00:26:11,262 --> 00:26:14,460
hear it or see it for the first
time, I have a high
level of

520
00:26:14,460 --> 00:26:16,254
confidence they're going to want
to come back.

521
00:26:16,254 --> 00:26:19,008
So
one of the biggest
struggles I think, especially in

522
00:26:19,008 --> 00:26:22,809
podcasting,
is discovery, and
if I can double the amount of

523
00:26:22,809 --> 00:26:25,781
people that
have discovered
what I'm doing, then I feel like

524
00:26:25,781 --> 00:26:26,942
that's going to
move the
needle.

525
00:26:26,942 --> 00:26:29,737
Because honestly, the people who
already
are already you know

526
00:26:29,737 --> 00:26:32,389
in there, they're coming back
anyway, so
they're getting

527
00:26:32,389 --> 00:26:34,394
value.
Marc Ronick: Fair point, Jason.

528
00:26:34,394 --> 00:26:35,899

Do you want to defend your side?

529
00:26:36,559 --> 00:26:39,071
Jason: Not anymore, because

that's really really good.

530
00:26:39,071 --> 00:26:43,067
My my thinking on saying that I
would
want people to be coming

531
00:26:43,067 --> 00:26:45,875
back and doubling up the people
that
are hearing.

532
00:26:45,875 --> 00:26:48,710
I forget how the.
How did you say this again?

533
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:51,284
How
did how was this Marc
Ronick: double the number
of

534
00:26:51,284 --> 00:26:53,769
new listeners finding your show,
or double the percentage
of

535
00:26:53,769 --> 00:26:55,599
listeners who return for another
episode?

536
00:26:55,659 --> 00:26:58,689
Jason: I tend to lean towards

you need to hear something more

537
00:26:58,749 --> 00:27:01,919
than once or see something more
than once to really get engaged

538
00:27:02,039 --> 00:27:04,219
with it.
So to get to that point
to

539
00:27:04,219 --> 00:27:07,541
where you have an engaged
listener, those 500 is our magic

540
00:27:07,541 --> 00:27:08,909

number for today's
conversation.

541
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,263
I feel like they need to hear

more content.

542
00:27:12,263 --> 00:27:15,847
One episode might do really
well, but maybe that
first

543
00:27:15,847 --> 00:27:19,133
episode just whets their
appetite a little bit and said,

544
00:27:19,133 --> 00:27:21,028
"Okay, that wasn't bad.
What else is here?

545
00:27:21,028 --> 00:27:23,675
And now they start
going
through the catalog a little bit

546
00:27:23,675 --> 00:27:26,135
more.
So I would
rather get to that

547
00:27:26,135 --> 00:27:27,904
point.
I'm with Ralph, though.

548
00:27:27,904 --> 00:27:31,864
Like I feel
that my podcast
content is good enough that a

549
00:27:31,864 --> 00:27:35,077
first time
listener is going
to say, "Okay, what else is

550
00:27:35,077 --> 00:27:36,719
here?
Let me check
out the rest of

551
00:27:36,719 --> 00:27:39,145
this catalog, and then I can
start to move
them down that

552
00:27:39,145 --> 00:27:41,748
engagement path.
So, man, this goes all over the

553
00:27:41,748 --> 00:27:43,163
map.
Marc Ronick: Uh huh.

554
00:27:43,163 --> 00:27:45,939
Dan, I see
you wanted to chime
in, and then we'll go to Sid.

555
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,664
Dan: Yeah, I agree with both of
you guys.

556
00:27:49,664 --> 00:27:53,370
Ultimately, growing, getting new
listeners is a tools
thing or

557
00:27:53,370 --> 00:27:56,737
a process thing, right?
It's just you do some SEO, you


558
00:27:56,745 --> 00:27:59,475
do this, you do that.
That's just something we can all

559
00:27:59,475 --> 00:28:02,700

control if we know the
process, but to get them to come

560
00:28:02,700 --> 00:28:05,805
back,
that means you actually
worked on the show, and you

561
00:28:05,805 --> 00:28:08,230
should
always.
That is ultimately always going

562
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:11,245
to be my answer:
that your
show can't suck.

563
00:28:11,245 --> 00:28:13,806
It's so hard to get people to
get
there.

564
00:28:13,806 --> 00:28:17,255
So all of the work you're doing,
you should just spend so
much

565
00:28:17,255 --> 00:28:20,533
time making the show good.
So when they do show up, they


566
00:28:20,541 --> 00:28:23,938
are going to come back.
I mean, one is simple, one is

567
00:28:23,938 --> 00:28:25,190
hard.
The
hard one.

568
00:28:25,340 --> 00:28:28,304
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and Dan is.
I
know what he was just

569
00:28:28,304 --> 00:28:30,600
referring to.
I have had a conversation
with

570
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,800
him about this off the show,
where we talk, where he's


571
00:28:33,808 --> 00:28:36,020
talked about.
You know, really, we there are

572
00:28:36,020 --> 00:28:39,159
all these tips and
tricks out
there around how to get

573
00:28:39,159 --> 00:28:41,068
discovered, how to improve

your show?

574
00:28:41,068 --> 00:28:45,270
How to grow your show?
And Dan in that camp-that
I

575
00:28:45,270 --> 00:28:48,124
can't argue.
If you're putting on a really

576
00:28:48,124 --> 00:28:50,905
good show, all that
other
stuff really comes falls into

577
00:28:50,905 --> 00:28:51,850
place.
You can.

578
00:28:51,850 --> 00:28:55,450
Dan: I think Steve Martin said,
"Be so good, they force you not

579
00:28:55,450 --> 00:28:56,944
to ignore you.
I don't know.


580
00:28:56,952 --> 00:28:59,216
Yeah, something like that.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, but Ralph

581
00:28:59,216 --> 00:29:00,632
Estep Jr.: but Marc, isn't

that the argument?

582
00:29:00,632 --> 00:29:03,482
If you build it, they will come.
I just don't
know if I believe

583
00:29:03,482 --> 00:29:05,331
that.
I think you can have stellar

584
00:29:05,331 --> 00:29:07,776
content
that's fantastic and
engaging, but if people don't

585
00:29:07,776 --> 00:29:09,839
know about
it, they're never
going to find it.

586
00:29:09,839 --> 00:29:12,547
Marc Ronick: Yes, there are

definitely tactics that will

587
00:29:12,610 --> 00:29:16,021
help people find your show.
You
can't just put out a

588
00:29:16,021 --> 00:29:18,769
really good show without
promoting it,
without

589
00:29:18,769 --> 00:29:22,547
spreading the word, etc.
But I believe that the effort


590
00:29:22,555 --> 00:29:26,527
isn't nearly as challenging if
you're putting on a really good

591
00:29:26,527 --> 00:29:29,050
production.
That's really what I think it

592
00:29:29,050 --> 00:29:32,077
comes down.
Alex: So the answer is that Marc

593
00:29:32,077 --> 00:29:33,518
Ronick: right.
And
actually, Alex: it's a

594
00:29:33,518 --> 00:29:34,605
Sophie's choice.
I
mean, they're both good.

595
00:29:34,605 --> 00:29:36,980
It's not you know.
It's not like Marc Ronick: well,

596
00:29:36,980 --> 00:29:39,245
that's the
idea of the game.
Alex: I understand.

597
00:29:39,245 --> 00:29:40,640
I'm just
saying.
It's just it's you know.

598
00:29:40,790 --> 00:29:41,950
Marc Ronick: Yeah.
No, I hear
you, Alex.

599
00:29:41,950 --> 00:29:44,650
Sid, did you want to get the
final word on this one?

600
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:47,440
Sid Meadows: So Ralph is not

wrong that discovery is hard,

601
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:50,355
and we talk about this a lot,

right?

602
00:29:50,355 --> 00:29:52,410
Yeah.
And Jason, I can't see Jason on

603
00:29:52,410 --> 00:29:53,782
my screen.
I forget
that he's there

604
00:29:53,782 --> 00:29:56,586
because he's not on Clubhouse.
But Jason had some
really

605
00:29:56,586 --> 00:29:59,898
great follow-ups to it because
we talk about it a lot.


606
00:29:59,906 --> 00:30:02,427
Discovery.
Hard and I focus on it quite a

607
00:30:02,427 --> 00:30:05,300
bit, but when you
think about
it, like from a sales

608
00:30:05,300 --> 00:30:08,580
perspective, when you're

trying to get new listeners,

609
00:30:08,670 --> 00:30:12,540
it's like cold calling, and

you're dialing for dollars to

610
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:16,554
get people to buy.
In our case,
get people to

611
00:30:16,554 --> 00:30:20,933
listen, but when they've come
once already,
that's a warm

612
00:30:20,933 --> 00:30:23,510
lead, where you're trying to get
them to convert.


613
00:30:23,518 --> 00:30:25,080
You know them.
You have a relationship.

614
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,250
They've heard your
content.
They've heard how you talk.

615
00:30:28,250 --> 00:30:31,898
They heard how you
moderate a
conversation, whatever it might

616
00:30:31,898 --> 00:30:34,740
be.
And so I
think it's easier to

617
00:30:34,740 --> 00:30:38,003
convert the ones that are that
can come back
right and

618
00:30:38,003 --> 00:30:40,544
capture that.
So I think of it like a warm

619
00:30:40,544 --> 00:30:42,490
lead.

And if I've got 100 people that

620
00:30:42,580 --> 00:30:45,430
listen one day for me, that's an

opportunity to turn those 100

621
00:30:45,460 --> 00:30:49,160
people into true followers.
And
so I'd rather focus on

622
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,215
them.
I mean, I do focus a lot on


623
00:30:51,223 --> 00:30:52,712
discovery.
Don't get me wrong about that,

624
00:30:52,712 --> 00:30:54,218
right?
Because I
want more people

625
00:30:54,218 --> 00:30:57,480
listening to my show.
But the ones that are
already

626
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,106
there, you got to keep them
coming back.

627
00:31:00,106 --> 00:31:02,359
And so it's.
I
think it's a really

628
00:31:02,359 --> 00:31:05,068
important conversation.
To Alex's point, I
think C is

629
00:31:05,068 --> 00:31:08,346
really the AC.
Marc Ronick: You know that's why

630
00:31:08,346 --> 00:31:11,220

we play this game to bring out
these discussions, and yeah, and

631
00:31:11,220 --> 00:31:14,670

to really figure out sometimes
why we say it depends.

632
00:31:14,670 --> 00:31:17,640
Right?

Okay, let's go to this next one.

633
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,798
The category is dream guest or

dream episode.

634
00:31:20,798 --> 00:31:25,618
Let me explain.
Choice A: Your dream guest on an

635
00:31:25,618 --> 00:31:28,686

"quote unquote" average
episode, meaning average

636
00:31:28,686 --> 00:31:29,978
quality.
It was
fine.

637
00:31:29,978 --> 00:31:34,865
It was a good episode, or an
unknown guest on one of your


638
00:31:34,873 --> 00:31:38,898
best episodes ever that you've
deemed it like this one was out

639
00:31:38,898 --> 00:31:41,510
of the park, knocked it out of
the park.

640
00:31:41,510 --> 00:31:43,645
It's a guest that
nobody
really knows.

641
00:31:43,645 --> 00:31:47,070
Okay, so A, your dream guest on
an average
episode.

642
00:31:47,070 --> 00:31:50,230
B, an unknown guest on one of
your best ever.

643
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:53,050
Ralph,
going to you first.
Ralph Estep Jr.: I'm going to


644
00:31:53,058 --> 00:31:55,279
the unknown number B.
Marc Ronick: Okay, and that's a

645
00:31:55,279 --> 00:31:56,799
letter.
Just if we're playing along, not

646
00:31:56,799 --> 00:31:58,458
a number.
Sorry, it's
early in the

647
00:31:58,458 --> 00:32:00,040
morning here, my friend.
Just kidding.

648
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:01,838
All right,
go ahead.
Ralph Estep Jr.: I'm good with


649
00:32:01,846 --> 00:32:02,790
numbers, dude.
Marc Ronick: I know.

650
00:32:02,790 --> 00:32:04,050
See, that's
it.
You're just always thinking

651
00:32:04,110 --> 00:32:08,359
numbers.
Yes, go ahead, Dr. DR: I say B,

652
00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:10,645
unknown guest.
Marc Ronick: All right, and


653
00:32:10,653 --> 00:32:13,370
Jason, Jason: same B.
Marc Ronick: Okay, lot.

654
00:32:13,370 --> 00:32:16,131
All
three said B on that one.
Let's see what the rest of the

655
00:32:16,131 --> 00:32:18,503
panel
says.
Sid, Sid Meadows: B, Marc

656
00:32:18,503 --> 00:32:19,500
Ronick: another B.
All
right, B C.

657
00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:22,280
BC Babbles: Tougher one, but I

think I'm going to also go with

658
00:32:22,310 --> 00:32:25,508
B.
Marc Ronick: Okay, Alex, Alex: I

659
00:32:25,508 --> 00:32:26,300
had this happen.
It's B.

660
00:32:27,140 --> 00:32:29,240
Marc Ronick: Okay, we'll have to

hear about that in a minute.

661
00:32:29,660 --> 00:32:32,548
Dan, how about you?
Dan: The real answer is B, but


662
00:32:32,556 --> 00:32:34,910
we had mr.
T on our show once, and he

663
00:32:34,910 --> 00:32:37,715
talked to my dog, so that
was
a really crappy episode.

664
00:32:37,715 --> 00:32:40,337
It was really neat because now I

have a story.

665
00:32:40,337 --> 00:32:46,720
So if A gives you a story, go A.
Marc Ronick: I like that.

666
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,440
Okay,
Knikki, Dream Guest.
Knikki: I'm gonna go with you.

667
00:32:49,510 --> 00:32:50,200
Marc Ronick: Which one?
I'm
sorry.

668
00:32:50,260 --> 00:32:51,490
Knikki: The guest.
The guest.

669
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:52,930
Marc Ronick: You're going with

dream guest.

670
00:32:53,619 --> 00:32:54,489
Knikki: Yep, the guest.
Okay.

671
00:32:54,940 --> 00:32:56,690
Marc Ronick: Well, because

they're both guests.

672
00:32:56,690 --> 00:32:59,390
All right, and we'll go to Rez
Rez: for sure.

673
00:32:59,390 --> 00:33:01,886
The dream guest one.
Marc Ronick: I had a feeling you

674
00:33:01,886 --> 00:33:05,045

would pick that one, Rez.
I'm getting to know you based on

675
00:33:05,045 --> 00:33:07,927

your answers these days.
Okay, let's go to the people.

676
00:33:07,927 --> 00:33:10,909
Let's go
to you, Rez.
Why your dream guest on an

677
00:33:10,909 --> 00:33:13,696
average episode over
an
unknown guest on one of your

678
00:33:13,752 --> 00:33:15,581
best ever?
Rez: I don't know.

679
00:33:15,581 --> 00:33:19,336
I think that
having my dream
guest would just naturally make

680
00:33:19,336 --> 00:33:23,551
that episode
better and also
more social proof, and I'm

681
00:33:23,551 --> 00:33:27,107
assuming by dream
guest,
you're talking about a guest

682
00:33:27,107 --> 00:33:29,599
that is like maybe famous
or
right.

683
00:33:29,599 --> 00:33:30,749
Marc Ronick: I guess you can

make that assumption.

684
00:33:30,749 --> 00:33:33,151
I'm not, yeah, mr.
Rez: T, clearly.

685
00:33:33,151 --> 00:33:35,809
But yeah,
that's that's
basically it.

686
00:33:35,959 --> 00:33:38,278
Marc Ronick: Okay, yeah.
I mean,
look, there is

687
00:33:38,278 --> 00:33:40,414
something we talk about this
with podcasting,
right?

688
00:33:40,414 --> 00:33:43,443
Like some of this is that it's a
an amazing networking


689
00:33:43,451 --> 00:33:47,121
opportunity, and if you can get
an opportunity to sit down with

690
00:33:47,121 --> 00:33:50,373
your dream guest, I can
understand why you, someone like

691
00:33:50,373 --> 00:33:54,171

Rez, might go that route.
I think it's okay sometimes to

692
00:33:54,171 --> 00:33:57,552
be
selfish if you're doing
some things for you, right?

693
00:33:57,552 --> 00:34:00,945
Because
you got to be able,
you you have to enjoy what

694
00:34:00,945 --> 00:34:04,658
you're doing, so I
certainly
don't fault Rez for picking A.

695
00:34:04,658 --> 00:34:07,949
Anyone else want to
chime in
and defend their answer?

696
00:34:08,940 --> 00:34:10,194
Sid Meadows: Who's up, Ben?
Marc Ronick: Yeah, go ahead,


697
00:34:10,202 --> 00:34:12,132
Sid.
Sid Meadows: You know, I think


698
00:34:12,139 --> 00:34:16,368
that I mean I don't have a dream
guest list, but there are some


699
00:34:16,376 --> 00:34:20,460
really big names in the industry
that I would like to interview


700
00:34:20,467 --> 00:34:24,158
for a variety of different
reasons, but the reason that I


701
00:34:24,166 --> 00:34:28,967
don't reach out to them is
there's too many loopholes to


702
00:34:28,976 --> 00:34:30,563
jump through, too many
constraints.

703
00:34:30,563 --> 00:34:33,128
I mean, there's a
somebody
that I've known for many many

704
00:34:33,128 --> 00:34:35,358
years.
He's the CEO of
a $3 billion

705
00:34:35,358 --> 00:34:38,429
or the chairman of the board of
a $3 billion family
owned

706
00:34:38,429 --> 00:34:40,184
company.
He's the third generation, and

707
00:34:40,184 --> 00:34:44,295
I've known him
for probably 20
years, and I actually asked him

708
00:34:44,295 --> 00:34:48,424
when I saw
him in person in
June, and the look on his face

709
00:34:48,424 --> 00:34:51,900
was, "Oh, I
don't know, Sid.
Like I don't know.

710
00:34:51,900 --> 00:34:55,659
And the reason I say that
is
because he's going to want to

711
00:34:55,659 --> 00:34:58,278
have all the questions before we

record.

712
00:34:58,278 --> 00:35:01,164
Then his marketing team is.
Going to want to review the


713
00:35:01,172 --> 00:35:03,100
podcast.
They want to do their own edits

714
00:35:03,100 --> 00:35:05,550
to it.
So I think
sometimes the

715
00:35:05,550 --> 00:35:09,810
celebrity or the big guest comes
with a lot of
loops that are a

716
00:35:09,810 --> 00:35:13,310
lot of loopholes you have to
jump
through in order to get

717
00:35:13,310 --> 00:35:16,272
the episode actually published.
And
that's not my show.

718
00:35:16,272 --> 00:35:19,637
My show is a real conversation
with real
people, and I'd

719
00:35:19,637 --> 00:35:23,592
rather my keep the keep the
integrity of my
show than to

720
00:35:23,592 --> 00:35:26,940
bring on a dream guest that I'm
going to have to
change the

721
00:35:26,940 --> 00:35:30,708
show so much and edit it so many
times to get it to a
place

722
00:35:30,708 --> 00:35:33,266
that they like it.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I wasn't even

723
00:35:33,266 --> 00:35:36,097

thinking of that as a factor.
That's a good one.

724
00:35:36,097 --> 00:35:38,316
Thank you,
Sid.
Let's go to Knikki.

725
00:35:38,316 --> 00:35:40,720
Knikki, what did you want to add
to this?

726
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:43,840
Knikki: I was just gonna say

that 99% of the time, whenever I

727
00:35:43,930 --> 00:35:47,140
think that my episode is gonna

be like the best episode I've

728
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,070
done, the greatest job ever, it
never turns out that way as far

729
00:35:51,130 --> 00:35:52,768
as like the numbers are

concerned.

730
00:35:52,768 --> 00:35:56,405
So I feel like just lost all
hope on that end, and I
would

731
00:35:56,405 --> 00:35:58,984
just go with the dream kiss.
Ralph Estep Jr.: Ralph, I want


732
00:35:58,992 --> 00:36:02,909
to I want to jump in there for a
second, and Nikki, you do great

733
00:36:02,909 --> 00:36:05,485
work.
By the way, I previewed your

734
00:36:05,485 --> 00:36:07,920
episode; it's fantastic.

Spoiler alert!

735
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,463
Yeah, spoiler valuation does

great work.

736
00:36:09,463 --> 00:36:12,406
But I think the problem with
this is so many
people think

737
00:36:12,406 --> 00:36:15,216
that Dream Guest is going to
rocket ship them to the
top of

738
00:36:15,216 --> 00:36:18,003
the charts, and if you look at
the statistics, I look
at the

739
00:36:18,003 --> 00:36:20,044
people who have had the dream to
Dream Guest.

740
00:36:20,044 --> 00:36:22,109
It doesn't
work.
Does it open up new doors?

741
00:36:22,155 --> 00:36:24,910
Sure, but is it going to be that

easy button that's going to

742
00:36:24,956 --> 00:36:27,528
propel you into stardom?

Probably not, because what they

743
00:36:27,574 --> 00:36:30,283
found is people, the dream

guests, don't promote your show.

744
00:36:30,329 --> 00:36:32,771
They come on there to you know

serve their own purposes.

745
00:36:32,771 --> 00:36:34,153
I think that's the problem,
Mark.


746
00:36:34,161 --> 00:36:37,147
Is a lot of people go into this
with that thought process of,


747
00:36:37,155 --> 00:36:40,407
well, if I get the dream guest,
they're going to send me my show

748
00:36:40,407 --> 00:36:43,164

out to everybody they know,
and I'm going to become an

749
00:36:43,164 --> 00:36:45,474
instant
sensation overnight.
It just doesn't usually happen

750
00:36:45,474 --> 00:36:47,794
like that.
Marc Ronick: I see, Jason,


751
00:36:47,802 --> 00:36:49,892
you're nodding emphatically.
Jason: I couldn't agree with


752
00:36:49,900 --> 00:36:52,057
that more.
That's why I I can remember the

753
00:36:52,057 --> 00:36:54,778
last time even
thought about
dream guests, quote unquote.

754
00:36:54,778 --> 00:36:57,339
I just figured.
I
mean, I've had a couple cool

755
00:36:57,389 --> 00:36:59,773
experience my show with a couple

local celebrities.

756
00:36:59,773 --> 00:37:02,764
I mean, these are past podcasts
I don't do
anymore.

757
00:37:02,764 --> 00:37:05,446
Probably the biggest one was
Claudio Sanchez from
Coheed

758
00:37:05,446 --> 00:37:07,357
and Cambria.
These are neat experiences that,

759
00:37:07,357 --> 00:37:10,687
for me, I
get to think, wow, I
get to sit down and actually

760
00:37:10,687 --> 00:37:13,167
talk with this
guy and have
him on my podcast.

761
00:37:13,218 --> 00:37:15,337
That was cool.
But in regards to
growth,

762
00:37:15,337 --> 00:37:18,182
maybe one episode took off a
little bit more, but after


763
00:37:18,190 --> 00:37:20,885
that one episode, it went right
back to where it was.

764
00:37:20,885 --> 00:37:23,620
So people
were coming for that
guy and then going away.

765
00:37:23,620 --> 00:37:26,420
So for me, it's
more about
building quality content with

766
00:37:26,420 --> 00:37:29,702
like-minded peers
that I can
bring on the show, and then let

767
00:37:29,702 --> 00:37:32,054
that speak for itself.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, thank you,


768
00:37:32,062 --> 00:37:34,044
Jason.
We've got Jeff Dwoskin on stage,

769
00:37:34,044 --> 00:37:36,294
and more people coming up
on
stage.

770
00:37:36,294 --> 00:37:39,664
I didn't realize this question
would get people
chatting, but

771
00:37:39,664 --> 00:37:42,278
here we are.
So, Jeff, go for it.

772
00:37:42,278 --> 00:37:44,260
Good morning.
Jeff Dwoskin: Hey, good morning.

773
00:37:44,260 --> 00:37:44,800


How's everyone?

774
00:37:44,950 --> 00:37:47,248
Marc Ronick: Good.
Jeff Dwoskin: I think one thing

775
00:37:47,248 --> 00:37:50,484
we're all assuming is that
these are good dreams and

776
00:37:50,484 --> 00:37:54,769
nightmares
are dreams too.
And so, you know, I think a

777
00:37:54,769 --> 00:37:56,932
dream gas looks
good on the
timeline.

778
00:37:56,932 --> 00:37:59,780
Looks good when you're asking
for
credibility.

779
00:37:59,780 --> 00:38:03,552
I think they, the difference.
I always really
enjoy the

780
00:38:03,552 --> 00:38:07,170
people, and I think you get more
information out of
the people

781
00:38:07,170 --> 00:38:10,248
who aren't necessarily that
famous, but
have the right

782
00:38:10,248 --> 00:38:12,138
stories and will actually tell
them.

783
00:38:12,138 --> 00:38:15,051
With the
dream guest, there's
a good chance that person's

784
00:38:15,051 --> 00:38:17,312
already
been on 1000 other
podcasts, also.

785
00:38:17,312 --> 00:38:21,599
So you're one of 1000 of
that
piece of content, and then the

786
00:38:21,599 --> 00:38:24,110
other people, and sometimes

they're more reserved or very

787
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,312
specific in how they'll say

things.

788
00:38:26,312 --> 00:38:31,220
And the people who are less
famous, I guess you could
say,

789
00:38:31,220 --> 00:38:33,878
will share stories because they
they don't have anything to


790
00:38:33,886 --> 00:38:35,840
lose at that point.
You know what I mean?

791
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,056
Or that's how I
always kind of
gage it: is how much, where are

792
00:38:39,056 --> 00:38:40,885
they in their
career, and what
do they have to lose?

793
00:38:40,885 --> 00:38:43,598
Because the people that
have
the most to lose are going to

794
00:38:43,598 --> 00:38:45,022
always be the most reserved

interviews.

795
00:38:45,022 --> 00:38:47,350
They're not going to give you
like the tea.

796
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,617
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and so Jeff,
I know Jeff does a show, and he

797
00:38:51,683 --> 00:38:55,771
gets to interview a lot of, I

guess, really more so like C and

798
00:38:55,837 --> 00:38:58,525
D listers.
Is that fair to say,
Jeff?

799
00:38:58,525 --> 00:39:01,739
Not B necessarily.
Jeff Dwoskin: I like to say I


800
00:39:01,747 --> 00:39:05,680
interview people who were really
famous when they were famous.

801
00:39:05,790 --> 00:39:07,296
Marc Ronick: Got it.
Okay, so
have you?

802
00:39:07,296 --> 00:39:10,086
I mean, you've interviewed a lot
of famous
people, and you love

803
00:39:10,086 --> 00:39:12,549
pop culture.
Have you ever had your
one of

804
00:39:12,549 --> 00:39:15,480
your dream guests?
Jeff Dwoskin: I've had some good

805
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,000

ones.
I've, I mean, I've been rejected

806
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,120
by the Fonz four times,
so
that would be like, you know,

807
00:39:20,210 --> 00:39:23,146
like that would be that's that's

who I'm really trying to get

808
00:39:23,146 --> 00:39:25,352
to.
But I know, like, if I was to


809
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,399
interview Steven Spielberg, I'd
just be like, you know, Marc

810
00:39:29,399 --> 00:39:32,612
Ronick: yeah.
And yes,
whenever whenever you

811
00:39:32,612 --> 00:39:35,990
land Henry Winkler, let me know.
I will be
the first in line to

812
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:38,780
listen to that episode, Jeff.
Jeff Dwoskin: Yeah, I mean, I've

813
00:39:38,780 --> 00:39:41,264

got half the other cast, but
not him, not him.

814
00:39:41,264 --> 00:39:44,431
So Jeff, DR: who was the last
person that
you were like,

815
00:39:44,431 --> 00:39:46,498
"Hey, this is this was a good
get.

816
00:39:46,498 --> 00:39:49,060
I'm
impressed.
Jeff Dwoskin: Well, you know, I

817
00:39:49,060 --> 00:39:52,120
think the last person I talked
to, Clay Aiken, he was on


818
00:39:52,128 --> 00:39:56,464
American Idol season two was a
really big one and had a huge


819
00:39:56,472 --> 00:39:59,340
fan base.
Matthew Lillard was a big one

820
00:39:59,340 --> 00:40:02,300
recently.
I find that it
depends on how

821
00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:05,433
old you are to answer the
question who's the
most famous

822
00:40:05,433 --> 00:40:08,300
person you've talked to, because
it depends on your
point of

823
00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:10,935
view.
Like I might go, "Hey, I talked

824
00:40:10,935 --> 00:40:13,479
to Ed Begley, big
names, you
know, and then they'll just

825
00:40:13,479 --> 00:40:16,084
stare at me, and
I'll go,
"Carol Baskin from Tiger King.

826
00:40:16,084 --> 00:40:19,092
You talked to Carol
Baskin?
Oh my God!

827
00:40:19,092 --> 00:40:21,885
And I'm like, "Okay, I need to
go.

828
00:40:21,885 --> 00:40:26,106
I need to
retire.
Marc Ronick: And Jeff, share the

829
00:40:26,106 --> 00:40:28,366

name of your show again for
our audience in case they want

830
00:40:28,366 --> 00:40:30,695
to
listen.
Jeff Dwoskin: Classic


831
00:40:30,703 --> 00:40:32,454
conversations with Jeff
DeWaskin.

832
00:40:32,454 --> 00:40:35,438
I say with Jeff
DeWaskin.
It's not officially part of the

833
00:40:35,438 --> 00:40:37,400
name, but if you
type in
classic conversations,

834
00:40:37,790 --> 00:40:40,955
everything goes classical.
And
like, no, that's a

835
00:40:40,955 --> 00:40:43,320
different word.
Okay, Marc Ronick: yeah, yeah.

836
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,687
We will
put a link in the show
notes as well.

837
00:40:45,687 --> 00:40:48,264
Thank you for sharing.
All
right, let's see here,

838
00:40:48,264 --> 00:40:49,540
Yvonne.
Welcome to the stage.

839
00:40:49,540 --> 00:40:51,488
It's been
a minute since we've
talked to you.

840
00:40:51,488 --> 00:40:52,944
Great to have you back up

here.

841
00:40:52,944 --> 00:40:55,710
And what did you want to add to
all Yvonne: this?

842
00:40:55,710 --> 00:40:57,142
Thanks.
I think
it's similar to what

843
00:40:57,142 --> 00:41:00,040
Jeff was saying.
It's I don't have
celebrities

844
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,321
on my podcast, but I
occasionally will get somebody


845
00:41:03,329 --> 00:41:08,724
who feels like a dream guest to
me because they have a good


846
00:41:08,732 --> 00:41:13,450
following on Instagram.
They're known by older women in

847
00:41:13,450 --> 00:41:19,590
who are
who are talking about
pro age topics, and so I've had

848
00:41:19,590 --> 00:41:22,945
some of
those ladies on, and
it's been fantastic.

849
00:41:22,945 --> 00:41:28,136
Actually, each one of
them has
been a great episode on top of

850
00:41:28,136 --> 00:41:32,236
being a dream guest
because
they're so aligned with what I'm

851
00:41:32,236 --> 00:41:35,513
talking about.
And then
the next time I go to

852
00:41:35,513 --> 00:41:39,270
approach somebody who I feel is
a dream
guest, I've got

853
00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:42,490
somebody to reference who's
already been on
the show that

854
00:41:42,490 --> 00:41:46,189
gives me that credibility where
they might say
yes.

855
00:41:46,189 --> 00:41:49,566
So Marc Ronick: yeah, yeah, I
love
it.

856
00:41:49,566 --> 00:41:52,736
Okay, yeah, absolutely, and
yeah, I think that this is all


857
00:41:52,744 --> 00:41:54,679
about if this is your dream
guest.

858
00:41:54,679 --> 00:41:56,920
It doesn't necessarily
have to
be a celebrity either.

859
00:41:57,130 --> 00:41:59,721
So yeah, I think that applies

just fine.

860
00:41:59,721 --> 00:42:04,047
Thank you, Yvonne.
Okay, I know that we have people

861
00:42:04,047 --> 00:42:08,012

who could chime in even more,
but I want to keep this moving.

862
00:42:08,012 --> 00:42:09,930

I'm going to throw this one out

863
00:42:10,140 --> 00:42:13,134
at you.
This one I have in my
extra

864
00:42:13,134 --> 00:42:16,515
questions category, but this one
caught my eye, so I
want to

865
00:42:16,515 --> 00:42:19,760
share it with you.
Would you rather make exactly

866
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:26,112
the show
that you want with no
income for a year, or earn

867
00:42:26,112 --> 00:42:31,304
$5,000 a month
producing a
show shaped heavily by a

868
00:42:31,304 --> 00:42:33,806
company.
So you've
basically been hired

869
00:42:33,806 --> 00:42:36,930
to make that show.
It's and I'm going to
throw in

870
00:42:36,930 --> 00:42:40,318
and it's on stuff that you
couldn't care less about.


871
00:42:40,326 --> 00:42:43,780
Okay, so let's do it, Ralph.
We're starting with you.

872
00:42:44,650 --> 00:42:46,060
Ralph Estep Jr.: Oh, this is a

tough one, but I'm going to go

873
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,070
with A because of where I am in
my career.

874
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,446
Marc Ronick: Ooh, okay.
I'll
have to hear more about

875
00:42:50,446 --> 00:42:52,462
that.
How about you, DR. DR: I'm going

876
00:42:52,462 --> 00:42:55,097
to go with B.
I
won't say because okay, B.

877
00:42:55,097 --> 00:42:57,393
Okay, Marc Ronick: Jason.
Jason: I think I would go with


878
00:42:57,401 --> 00:42:59,268
B.
Marc Ronick: Okay, interesting.

879
00:42:59,268 --> 00:43:00,450

I was curious where people would

880
00:43:00,510 --> 00:43:02,340
go with this.
How about you,
Sid?

881
00:43:03,270 --> 00:43:05,268
Sid Meadows: A.
Marc Ronick: Okay, and then B,


882
00:43:05,276 --> 00:43:07,660
C.
BC Babbles: Um, I'm gonna.

883
00:43:07,660 --> 00:43:09,540
God,
this one's hard.
I wouldn't say A.

884
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:10,830
Marc Ronick: Okay, I'll BC
Babbles: say A.

885
00:43:11,340 --> 00:43:13,140
Marc Ronick: And we're getting a

mixed bag bag here.

886
00:43:13,140 --> 00:43:15,828
Alex, how about you?
Alex: I might go with B.

887
00:43:15,828 --> 00:43:18,240
Ace for
good, but I might go
with A for now.

888
00:43:18,450 --> 00:43:20,187
Marc Ronick: All right, I'm

gonna reset for Dan here.

889
00:43:20,187 --> 00:43:23,350
Dan, would you rather make
exactly
the show you want with

890
00:43:23,350 --> 00:43:27,926
no income for a year, or earn
$5,000 per
month producing a

891
00:43:27,926 --> 00:43:30,968
show shaped heavily by a company
that you
couldn't care less

892
00:43:30,968 --> 00:43:33,752
about?
Dan: No income for a year,


893
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,380
delayed gratification, baby.
Marc Ronick: Okay, all right.


894
00:43:36,388 --> 00:43:39,707
And Nikki, how about you?
Knikki: I'm gonna go with B for

895
00:43:39,707 --> 00:43:41,732
now.
Marc Ronick: Okay, B for now.


896
00:43:41,740 --> 00:43:44,020
Okay, and Rez, I saw you flash
the money bag.

897
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,305
Rez: B for sure.
Marc Ronick: Oh, okay, B.

898
00:43:47,305 --> 00:43:48,580
Right.

Okay, yeah, he flashes the money

899
00:43:48,670 --> 00:43:49,638
bag.
That's that makes sense.


900
00:43:49,646 --> 00:43:52,360
How about you, Jeff?
Jeff Dwoskin: Well, I'm already

901
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,200
doing the no money thing, so I
would try the 5000 Marc Ronick:

902
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:57,520
I was waiting for
an answer
like that.

903
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,540
Glad we have a comedian on
stage.

904
00:43:59,540 --> 00:44:03,790
Okay,
Yvonne, how about you?
Yvonne: Jeff and I have a lot in

905
00:44:03,790 --> 00:44:05,366

common.
I've been living the sea, and

906
00:44:05,366 --> 00:44:08,640
you know, but I have a

photography business that I love

907
00:44:08,730 --> 00:44:11,781
doing, so it lets me do that.
Marc Ronick: Fair enough.

908
00:44:11,781 --> 00:44:12,582
Okay.

All right.

909
00:44:12,582 --> 00:44:15,612
So, Ralph, you caught my
attention when you said at


910
00:44:15,620 --> 00:44:18,090
this stage in my career.
So I'm curious.

911
00:44:18,090 --> 00:44:19,708
Yeah, because Ralph Estep Jr.: I
think it
depends.

912
00:44:19,708 --> 00:44:22,044
Are you starving right now?
And that it sounds mean,
but

913
00:44:22,044 --> 00:44:24,460
like if you're really hurting
for money and you're
trying to

914
00:44:24,460 --> 00:44:27,440
figure out how to put meals on
the table, sure, then
this

915
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,062
discussion here is a tough one
because you're going to do


916
00:44:30,070 --> 00:44:32,414
what you got to do.
Yeah, but if you've gotten to

917
00:44:32,414 --> 00:44:35,366
the point in
your career where
you can have some poetic

918
00:44:35,366 --> 00:44:38,574
license, for lack of
a better
term, and you can put some stuff

919
00:44:38,574 --> 00:44:40,990
out there into the
ethos to
see where it lands.

920
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,420
That's why I picked that one

because that's where I am

921
00:44:43,540 --> 00:44:46,150
personally, and that's just

that's grace of God for me to be

922
00:44:46,150 --> 00:44:47,500
blunt.
But I understand the
other

923
00:44:47,500 --> 00:44:49,820
side of that because a lot of
people are struggling right


924
00:44:49,828 --> 00:44:51,400
now.
The economy is not great, Marc

925
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:52,618
Ronick: right?
Ralph Estep Jr.: And if you've


926
00:44:52,626 --> 00:44:54,385
got an opportunity to go make
money, then the argument could


927
00:44:54,393 --> 00:44:57,730
be made: Well, I'll go make the
money, and I'll have time to do

928
00:44:57,730 --> 00:45:00,050
this other passion project.
But I do.

929
00:45:00,050 --> 00:45:02,580
It comes down to putting
food
on the table sometimes, and

930
00:45:02,580 --> 00:45:05,220
that's why I think that the B is

going to be a popular answer,

931
00:45:05,370 --> 00:45:08,985
especially for content creators.
Marc Ronick: Fair, fair point.


932
00:45:08,993 --> 00:45:11,667
Yes, it certainly depends on
your current situation.

933
00:45:11,667 --> 00:45:14,040
Jason,
did you want to add
something?

934
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,920
Jason: Yeah, this is my

perspective on this.

935
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,997
I'm already doing this in
regards to working
with

936
00:45:19,997 --> 00:45:24,148
clients and building podcasts
that are for them, now
$5,000

937
00:45:24,148 --> 00:45:28,492
a month from one, no, but over
that collectively, sure.

938
00:45:28,492 --> 00:45:32,588
My
thinking is if I could take
a year to really focus on making

939
00:45:32,588 --> 00:45:34,328

that really good, I make my
money.

940
00:45:34,328 --> 00:45:38,212
That's $60,000 that I
have at
the end of that one year.

941
00:45:38,212 --> 00:45:42,130
Now I can move back to my

podcast, and I've got some money

942
00:45:42,490 --> 00:45:45,583
that I can put behind it.
So
maybe now I can invest in

943
00:45:45,583 --> 00:45:48,028
ads.
Maybe I can invest in anything


944
00:45:48,036 --> 00:45:51,495
that I feel might take my
podcast to the next level.

945
00:45:51,495 --> 00:45:53,900
I've
got some cash in my
pocket to play with.

946
00:45:53,900 --> 00:45:57,174
That's how I looked
at it.
Now, if I'm looking at it wrong,

947
00:45:57,174 --> 00:45:59,727
then tell me.
But that
seems like a pretty

948
00:45:59,727 --> 00:46:01,170
good trade-off at the end of the
day.

949
00:46:01,530 --> 00:46:02,680
Marc Ronick: Yeah, that's fair.


950
00:46:02,688 --> 00:46:04,707
That's fair.
Yeah, there's there's no hidden

951
00:46:04,707 --> 00:46:06,870
agenda here.

This is to be interpreted

952
00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:08,570
however we want to interpret it.



953
00:46:08,578 --> 00:46:10,755
Nikki, you had something you
wanted to add.

954
00:46:10,755 --> 00:46:13,456
Go for it.
Knikki: I was going to say that

955
00:46:13,456 --> 00:46:18,145
for me as a new podcaster, I
would want to gain the skills of

956
00:46:18,145 --> 00:46:21,426

podcasting before I kind of
jumped into my own.

957
00:46:21,426 --> 00:46:25,300
Now, if I
already had the tech
skills and all the know-how, I

958
00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:28,650
probably
would go the route of
making my own podcast the way I

959
00:46:28,650 --> 00:46:31,203
wanted it
to be.
But if I didn't have the skills

960
00:46:31,203 --> 00:46:34,640
and I could learn that by

producing a different show, I

961
00:46:34,850 --> 00:46:37,580
think it would be really good

because a lot of what I know in

962
00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:41,621
my own business world is because

of the jobs that I have

963
00:46:41,621 --> 00:46:44,356
worked, and those jobs have
given me
tremendous knowledge

964
00:46:44,356 --> 00:46:46,330
and skills that now I use for my
business.

965
00:46:47,140 --> 00:46:48,712
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I think

that's a great point.

966
00:46:48,712 --> 00:46:51,480
Yeah, if you're a newer
podcaster, sure,
it would be

967
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,740
exciting to get an offer to work
on a show for 5000
a month,

968
00:46:54,740 --> 00:46:58,464
but you may not be ready for it.
Yeah, I agree with
you.

969
00:46:58,464 --> 00:47:01,394
Anyone else want to chime in?
Okay.

970
00:47:01,394 --> 00:47:04,826
Yeah, let's do one
more.
Okay.

971
00:47:04,826 --> 00:47:12,132
Would you rather have one
episode go viral or
gain 25

972
00:47:12,132 --> 00:47:15,940
loyal listeners every month for
two years?

973
00:47:15,940 --> 00:47:21,318
One episode
go viral, 25 loyal
listeners a month for the next

974
00:47:21,318 --> 00:47:23,930
two years.

Now, I think some people have

975
00:47:24,020 --> 00:47:27,140
shared this already, kind of.
So
we'll make this one a quick

976
00:47:27,260 --> 00:47:28,754
round.
I'm going to go to you
first,

977
00:47:28,754 --> 00:47:30,920
Ralph.
Ralph Estep Jr.: B, Marc Ronick:

978
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:31,550
Jason.
Jason: B.

979
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,240
Marc Ronick: Does anyone

disagree with Jason or Ralph?

980
00:47:35,900 --> 00:47:38,570
Does anyone feel they would

rather have one episode go

981
00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:39,656
viral?
No.

982
00:47:39,656 --> 00:47:43,399
Okay.
Then I'm going
to go to a

983
00:47:43,399 --> 00:47:46,618
bonus question.
This is inspired by something

984
00:47:46,618 --> 00:47:50,602
Sid
said earlier.
Would you rather give your

985
00:47:50,602 --> 00:47:55,294
upcoming guest every
question
for an interview, or enter with

986
00:47:55,294 --> 00:47:58,936
one question, giving
them just
one question, and follow the

987
00:47:58,936 --> 00:48:02,106
conversation from
there?
Jason: Ralph, Ralph Estep Jr.:

988
00:48:02,106 --> 00:48:02,790
B.
Follow the
conversation.

989
00:48:03,090 --> 00:48:05,670
Marc Ronick: Okay, Jason, I I

know your answer, knowing you.

990
00:48:06,420 --> 00:48:10,255
Yeah, Sid, how about you?
Sid Meadows: This mute button


991
00:48:10,263 --> 00:48:13,148
today, my goodness, B.
Marc Ronick: Okay, B.

992
00:48:13,148 --> 00:48:15,816
So he
wants just one question
and follow the conversation from

993
00:48:15,816 --> 00:48:16,560

there.
B C.

994
00:48:17,610 --> 00:48:18,870
BC Babbles: I'm gonna say A this

time.

995
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,771
Marc Ronick: Okay, you so you're

cool with giving, and let's

996
00:48:21,771 --> 00:48:24,413
stop here for a second.
You're cool
with giving every

997
00:48:24,413 --> 00:48:27,104
question before an interview to
that
guest.

998
00:48:27,104 --> 00:48:29,180
Can you expand on that?
How come?

999
00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:32,750
BC Babbles: For me, my one

little caveat here is that I

1000
00:48:32,990 --> 00:48:37,190
want to make sure they're okay

with what I want to touch on, so

1001
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:42,191
that if we follow a blank

conversation with one prompt.

1002
00:48:42,191 --> 00:48:46,297
I don't want to accidentally go
anywhere that is not

1003
00:48:46,297 --> 00:48:48,469
comfortable for them.
Marc Ronick: Okay.

1004
00:48:48,469 --> 00:48:49,747
Yeah.
So
you're just you're looking

1005
00:48:49,747 --> 00:48:53,683
to try to create some trust
between
you and the guest, and

1006
00:48:53,683 --> 00:48:57,167
giving them those questions to
feel
comfortable and really

1007
00:48:57,167 --> 00:48:59,644
prepare for the interview.
Yeah.

1008
00:48:59,644 --> 00:49:01,079
Okay.
BC Babbles: And honestly, what I

1009
00:49:01,079 --> 00:49:02,364

do, I don't even give a full
list of questions.

1010
00:49:02,364 --> 00:49:05,746
I say is what
I want to talk
about, but this is not in any

1011
00:49:05,746 --> 00:49:09,660
way a strict
verbatim list.
Yeah, get to all these points.

1012
00:49:10,260 --> 00:49:12,476
Marc Ronick: Sure, yeah, I think

I'm with you there in the

1013
00:49:12,476 --> 00:49:16,638
sense, if my guest asks, I'm
okay
giving them questions,

1014
00:49:16,638 --> 00:49:20,460
but I don't think I would give
them
every question, partially

1015
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,530
because I'd be afraid that yeah
they're gonna create answers to

1016
00:49:24,620 --> 00:49:27,680
every question and then have

something scripted and it's not

1017
00:49:27,710 --> 00:49:32,270
gonna feel natural yeah so I'm

not into that idea but I would

1018
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:37,370
at least give them a few

questions and or topics that I

1019
00:49:37,460 --> 00:49:41,020
want to cover with them so again

that they can prepare but not

1020
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,740
over prepare, because I think an

interview that's over prepared

1021
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,680
for, generally speaking, kind of

sucks.

1022
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,781
Just being honest with you.
All right, anyone else want
to

1023
00:49:51,781 --> 00:49:52,990
chime in?
Chime in.

1024
00:49:53,530 --> 00:49:54,905
Sid Meadows: Go ahead.
Marc Ronick: All right, we'll go

1025
00:49:54,905 --> 00:49:58,897

to Yvonne and then Alex.
Yvonne: So part of my calendar


1026
00:49:58,905 --> 00:50:02,130
link setup.
Gives them a list of sample

1027
00:50:02,130 --> 00:50:06,810
questions, just so they
have
an idea of what I might ask

1028
00:50:06,900 --> 00:50:09,505
them.
But I also say these are
just

1029
00:50:09,505 --> 00:50:14,262
examples of the types of
questions I ask, and we follow a

1030
00:50:14,262 --> 00:50:16,318

conversation.
Marc Ronick: Yeah.

1031
00:50:16,318 --> 00:50:17,463
Okay.
I'm
with you there.

1032
00:50:17,463 --> 00:50:19,170
And Alex, go.
Let's go to you.

1033
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:21,143
Alex: Sometimes I don't even

only going to ask.

1034
00:50:21,143 --> 00:50:23,596
I mean, yes, you have the the
outline of
questions that

1035
00:50:23,596 --> 00:50:26,552
you're going to ask, but you got
to follow the
conversation

1036
00:50:26,552 --> 00:50:30,854
because there's just sometimes
it just doesn't
work with that

1037
00:50:30,854 --> 00:50:32,561
constraint.
Yeah, Marc Ronick: I can

1038
00:50:32,561 --> 00:50:33,955
appreciate
that.
I don't think you're the only

1039
00:50:33,955 --> 00:50:35,914
one.
I I know a lot of
podcasters

1040
00:50:35,914 --> 00:50:38,772
who, Jason, I think you do this
right when you when
you

1041
00:50:38,772 --> 00:50:42,014
prepare for a show, you don't
necessarily have every


1042
00:50:42,022 --> 00:50:44,967
question prepared.
Jason: I have zero questions


1043
00:50:44,975 --> 00:50:47,171
prepared.
I talk with the person I'm going

1044
00:50:47,171 --> 00:50:50,517
to bring on the show,
and we
figure out the angle that we

1045
00:50:50,517 --> 00:50:53,943
want to take, and then I do
my
research on them and learn about

1046
00:50:53,943 --> 00:50:55,826
them.
I listen to some
shows they've

1047
00:50:55,826 --> 00:50:58,016
been on.
I find out what they're

1048
00:50:58,016 --> 00:51:00,455
passionate
about.
Sometimes, if they say that

1049
00:51:00,455 --> 00:51:03,753
within the first five
minutes
of a show, I'll move to another

1050
00:51:03,753 --> 00:51:07,371
show so I can have
enough to
understand who they are and what

1051
00:51:07,371 --> 00:51:09,311
they do.
But when
they come on the

1052
00:51:09,311 --> 00:51:12,514
show, we just talk and we just
focus on the
conversation, and

1053
00:51:12,514 --> 00:51:15,326
I let them know that's how it's
going to
roll.

1054
00:51:15,326 --> 00:51:18,176
And I've had no problems with it
up to this point.

1055
00:51:18,176 --> 00:51:21,225
But I
will say this: there's
to add a caveat to that.

1056
00:51:21,225 --> 00:51:24,226
That comes with
experience.
It's very hard for a new

1057
00:51:24,226 --> 00:51:25,870
podcaster to just start like

that.

1058
00:51:25,870 --> 00:51:29,675
I'm doing this for over a decade
now, so I feel
comfortable and

1059
00:51:29,675 --> 00:51:32,958
confident that I can do that.
But if you're brand
new, try

1060
00:51:32,958 --> 00:51:35,141
it.
Yeah, you you might want to have

1061
00:51:35,141 --> 00:51:38,635
a couple bullet
points or a
couple questions in front of you

1062
00:51:38,635 --> 00:51:41,496
just in case,
because
sometimes you're just not ready

1063
00:51:41,496 --> 00:51:45,010
for that yet, and
that's okay.
There's nothing wrong with that.

1064
00:51:45,010 --> 00:51:48,289
It's just
something that comes
more naturally with more

1065
00:51:48,289 --> 00:51:50,260
experience.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, I personally,

1066
00:51:50,260 --> 00:51:53,164

even doing this for over 20
years, I personally prefer


1067
00:51:53,172 --> 00:51:56,872
having questions in front of me.
Do I get to all of them?

1068
00:51:56,872 --> 00:51:58,102
Almost
never.
There you go.

1069
00:51:58,102 --> 00:52:01,320
And do I end up asking questions
that I
didn't have prepared,

1070
00:52:01,500 --> 00:52:02,610
absolutely.
Jason: Right.

1071
00:52:02,700 --> 00:52:06,799
Marc Ronick: But I personally, I

have too much anxiety to go

1072
00:52:06,799 --> 00:52:08,424
into an interview without
questions.


1073
00:52:08,432 --> 00:52:12,948
Even if I've learned a lot about
them going into the interview, I

1074
00:52:12,948 --> 00:52:17,385

maybe it's my ADHD and knowing
the ADHD in me that I will


1075
00:52:17,393 --> 00:52:19,670
forget half the things I want to
ask.

1076
00:52:19,670 --> 00:52:22,280
So it just it's a
confidence
booster for me.

1077
00:52:22,970 --> 00:52:24,650
Jason: Yeah, I think it's

personal preference.

1078
00:52:24,650 --> 00:52:26,100
Whatever makes you comfortable.
I do.


1079
00:52:26,108 --> 00:52:28,292
I'll go back to what you were
saying before.

1080
00:52:28,292 --> 00:52:31,286
If it's over
scripted, and you
give somebody the opportunity,

1081
00:52:31,286 --> 00:52:34,298
they have all
of the questions
in advance, and then they write

1082
00:52:34,298 --> 00:52:35,954
out answers.

I've seen that happen.

1083
00:52:35,954 --> 00:52:40,039
It's ugly, and it takes away
from the
true core root of

1084
00:52:40,039 --> 00:52:42,739
what a good podcast is all
about, and that's
usually

1085
00:52:42,739 --> 00:52:45,220
rooted in good conversation and
something that
engages both

1086
00:52:45,220 --> 00:52:49,198
the host and the guest, and
builds something in a


1087
00:52:49,206 --> 00:52:52,840
synergistic environment that the
audience can then grab a hold


1088
00:52:52,848 --> 00:52:54,728
of.
So, if you're scripting it, it

1089
00:52:54,728 --> 00:52:56,593
sounds like almost like
you're
reading an audio book.

1090
00:52:56,593 --> 00:52:58,240
It can take some air out of the
show.

1091
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:00,528
Marc Ronick: Agreed.
Yes, Rez,
I'm going to give

1092
00:53:00,528 --> 00:53:02,952
you the final word, and then I
want to share
some thoughts

1093
00:53:02,952 --> 00:53:05,260
before we wrap up.
Rez: Appreciate it, Mark.

1094
00:53:05,260 --> 00:53:08,442
So my
last, very last episode,
I had this guy on, right?

1095
00:53:08,442 --> 00:53:12,450
I had
prepared for it, crazy,
like I had a lot of questions,

1096
00:53:12,450 --> 00:53:14,610
and he
hijacked the entire
episode.

1097
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,584
Like I couldn't even ask him one

question.

1098
00:53:16,584 --> 00:53:19,692
He literally wouldn't stop
talking for the whole
episode.

1099
00:53:19,692 --> 00:53:24,020
So I just want to share that
that even even if you have


1100
00:53:24,028 --> 00:53:26,905
questions, sometimes you just
can't ask them because it just


1101
00:53:26,913 --> 00:53:29,135
yeah.
Marc Ronick: What did you end up

1102
00:53:29,135 --> 00:53:30,400

doing, Res?
Did you just?

1103
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,364
Rez: I went with it.
I went with
it and gave me an

1104
00:53:33,364 --> 00:53:36,024
excellent review on Podmatch, so
I'm okay
with it.

1105
00:53:36,024 --> 00:53:36,500
Okay.
Marc Ronick: Okay.

1106
00:53:36,980 --> 00:53:38,920
Rez: Oh DR: damn!
I think I missed a
good

1107
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:40,310
question.
Was it about scripting?

1108
00:53:41,030 --> 00:53:43,990
Marc Ronick: No, it was about

allowing giving your questions

1109
00:53:44,140 --> 00:53:45,960
to a guest.
DR: You know what?

1110
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:47,308
Or not.
I do it.

1111
00:53:47,308 --> 00:53:48,890
I give my questions to
the
guest.

1112
00:53:48,890 --> 00:53:50,590
Okay.
Am I in the minority?

1113
00:53:51,250 --> 00:53:53,668
Marc Ronick: Yes, you are.
But
I'm with you, so you got

1114
00:53:53,668 --> 00:53:57,072
me at least, and a couple other
people
as well.

1115
00:53:57,072 --> 00:54:00,755
All right.
Listen, this was a lot of fun,

1116
00:54:00,755 --> 00:54:05,368
and you know
those choices
that we made also revealed, I

1117
00:54:05,368 --> 00:54:09,354
think, something
kind of
important that every podcasting

1118
00:54:09,354 --> 00:54:12,194
decision comes with
some
trade-off, right?

1119
00:54:12,194 --> 00:54:17,442
Like more reach may mean less
connection,
more frequency may

1120
00:54:17,442 --> 00:54:19,858
affect the quality of the show,
right?

1121
00:54:19,858 --> 00:54:23,441
And
I know we didn't get to
that specifically, but you you

1122
00:54:23,441 --> 00:54:26,750
get my
drift.
And and more recognition may

1123
00:54:26,750 --> 00:54:30,530
produce less revenue.
So the
best choice depends on

1124
00:54:30,530 --> 00:54:34,190
what you're trying to build and
what
matters to you right now.

1125
00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:38,840
There's rarely one answer, as

you could hear today, that works

1126
00:54:38,930 --> 00:54:42,924
for every podcaster.
A decision
that helps one show

1127
00:54:42,924 --> 00:54:47,209
grow could pull another show
away from its
purpose.

1128
00:54:47,209 --> 00:54:51,020
Your priorities, like Ralph was
sharing earlier, as
far as

1129
00:54:51,020 --> 00:54:55,446
whether or not you could afford
to do a show for free for
a

1130
00:54:55,446 --> 00:54:58,858
year, those priorities may also
change as your podcast,
your

1131
00:54:58,858 --> 00:55:02,340
business, and your.
Life changes, so when you feel

1132
00:55:02,340 --> 00:55:06,125
stuck
between options, just
ask yourself which one moves me

1133
00:55:06,125 --> 00:55:10,255
more
closer to the kind of
podcast or the kind of business

1134
00:55:10,255 --> 00:55:14,004
or
relationship with my
audience that I actually want.

1135
00:55:14,004 --> 00:55:17,536
Then
consider what you're
willing to give up in exchange

1136
00:55:17,536 --> 00:55:20,207
for it.
For
me, once I understand both

1137
00:55:20,207 --> 00:55:23,284
the goal and the trade-off.
That's
when the choice becomes

1138
00:55:23,284 --> 00:55:26,468
a lot easier.
So I hope that this was


1139
00:55:26,476 --> 00:55:30,515
helpful for you today.
And a reminder that we are back

1140
00:55:30,515 --> 00:55:32,960
tomorrow, eight a.m.
Eastern, covering all things

1141
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,970
podcast
news.
So if you want to be in the know

1142
00:55:35,970 --> 00:55:38,695
about the latest and
greatest
stuff going on in this very

1143
00:55:38,695 --> 00:55:40,520
industry, come join us

tomorrow at

1144
00:55:40,610 --> 00:55:44,050
podcastingmorningshow.com/slash
join. join us, and if you can't

1145
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,304
join us live, no worries.
You
can still use that link

1146
00:55:47,304 --> 00:55:50,749
and find the episode when it
publishes a
few hours later.

1147
00:55:50,749 --> 00:55:54,134
So until tomorrow, make it a
great day,
everybody.

1148
00:55:54,134 --> 00:55:54,880
Take care.