336 - How Far Will AI Go in Podcasting by 2030?

0:05 Good morning podcasting Morning Chat. Today is Thursday, July 10th, 2025 and today we're stepping into the future of podcasting with a creative, family friendly podcast clip, a bold look at twenty 30s podcasting landscape, plus AI insights from Joe Rogan's podcast. So if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, bottom left hand side of the screen and share it. However, Clubhouse lets you. And if you're listening via podcast, please share this with a fellow podcaster. And now give us about 30 seconds and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here. Good morning again podcasting, morning chat. Thanks so much for being here.

1:24 I am your host Mark Ronic on stage with me currently are my Co hosts. We have producer Ashley Feller, Dr. Faye, Sid Meadows and Jonathan Howard. I expect Nick, he said he's going to try to make it. He's just got a late start today so he's going to try to join us as well. And we'll see who else from the cast and crew are joining us in a moment. So before we jump right in to today's topic, digging into the future. And by the way, Speaking of future, I thought it would be appropriate whenever we talk about the future of podcasting, the future of AI. This morning I'm going to open the car door, the DeLorean car door, so we'll have that here on standby.

2:10 Got to have sound effects whenever I can do that. And don't worry Ashley, I've already put the file in our sound effects folder if you need it for post production for some reason. So we're good to go there. I want to 1st remind you, the listener, to please give us a vote. The podcasting morning chat is up for two nominations over at podcastawards.com. So all I'm asking you to do is take literally like a minute to sign up to be able to vote for us at podcastawards.com. Sign up, it's totally free. And then look for us in two categories, the Adam Curry People's Choice Award and the Education Award. The key is to look for us 'cause it's all listed, the nominees are all listed alphabetically.

2:59 Look for us under the TS for the podcasting morning chat. So please give us your vote if you don't mind, so we can move on to the next round and get this show an award of its own. It's definitely an award that would be a shared one for sure, because this is a community effort over here and I think we deserve a little recognition. So please give us your vote if you don't mind. OK, so with that today, yes, it's it's a future themed podcast episode and we're going to start a little light with a podcast that pod news spot lit.

3:40 Is that really a word or is it spotlighted? Anyway, turn they turned me on to a new podcast that I wanted to share with you. It's called Tales from the Cloud Sea, which might just be the first fully improvised comedy adventure podcast made for kids and families. And the twist is that in the spirit of improv, as you know, I've been taking improv classes. Every episode is shaped by the audience, by real kid callers who decide where the Skytanic. This is the vessel that the two adventurers travel in.

4:21 It's a flying cruise ship, get to see where they go next. So it's part storytelling, part interactive improv. And the early feedback so far has been pretty strong for this podcast. If you're creating for younger audiences, I think this is a great example of how to make podcasting more interactive, more fun. And if you're not, well, let me get into that. I think that this podcast, I'm enjoying it and I think it nails what podcasting can be. When it breaks out of the usual mold. Excuse me, It blends improv, like I said, storytelling, real time audience participation in a way that pushes creative limits. So if your show isn't family focused, I think there's still a clear lesson here about how to engage an audience differently, bringing them into the experience and making the show more dynamic, more alive.

5:24 So interactive storytelling like this, to me, it's a peek at the future of podcasting as it keeps evolving. We'll get into more generalized predictions of podcasting and its future, but I want to 1st play you a clip. This is about two minutes long. I just want you to get a taste of it and then we can talk a little bit about it if you'd like on the other side. So here's a clip from Tales from the Cloud C and and just to be clear, these are all improv actors, right? So the two main characters are kids. So I'll play you a piece of their intro and then a little just a little smidget of their opening of the podcast. Here we go.

6:08 You're listening to Tales from the Cloud C, an improvised comedy adventure podcast where kids are at the helm. Everything you're about to hear is completely made-up on the spot. No script, no plan, no rules. Episode 1 A very suspicious island. Hey, Arthur, I was just organizing my bug collection and I wanted your opinion about these beetles. Amelia, you just walked right into my room and didn't even knock on the door. Oh, sorry. Let me do that again. Knock, knock, knock. You can't come in. OK, you can come in. Thanks, Arthur. Look, I have my bug collection and I've got them all pinned, but I have these beetles arranged by color and I'm thinking I need to arrange them by genius. I would love your opinion.

6:52 Maybe you could do, like, centipedes, butterflies and ladybugs. And that's your order. Oh, OK. This is going to be a birthday present for you, boy. Yeah, you are. Now I know what it is. I'm sorry. I just wanted to make it, like, exactly how you want it. Oh, that's that's really cool, Amelia. I mean, you do do this every single year, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by it. Yeah, there's bugs every year. Every year. And it's weird because they're dead bugs. You're giving me dead bugs in a jar. Well, you know, I like to display them. I, you know, like a museum. Someday I'm going to work in a museum. Yeah, I know. I think it's really cool. And I know your favorite movie is Night at the Museum with Ben Stiller. Yeah. Maybe someday we'll get to spend the night. We'll just go to the museum and and hide and dad will just be like, I guess they went home. We should.

7:36 We should totally go to museum and hide. I mean, on Tuesday it's free, Kid. Tuesday at the Museum of the World. Yeah. Let's go. We should do it. We should do it. Dad into. Sorry, I said Mom. I don't even know where. I don't know why I said mom. Would you say mom? I don't know. I miss her so much. You too. I'm giggling because it's so improv in the sense that, you know, you sometimes just say things and not. It doesn't fit with the general premise of what you're improvising, and you just got to go with it. No editing. No editing, no. And in fact it sounds like, and I think it's intentional, if you go back and listen, you'll hear. And if you go listen to the whole episode, you'll hear their, I don't know if it's their producer or one of the other actors, but you'll hear a male giggle every so often, you know, giggling at maybe one of the the flubs or mistakes or just something funny that happened. You'll just hear kind of in the background, a little slight giggle from an adult.

8:38 And yeah, I don't know, maybe that helps cue you a little bit to realize, Oh yeah, that was just improvised and they're just having fun and giggling with that. But what's cool is, is that they give you a phone number that you and your kid can call and tell the improvisers, tell the podcast where they want to see you see the 2 characters go next. And by the way, just a side note, you all, a lot of you have met my best friend Jonah Berger, who's joined us before. His two kids are named Amelia and Arthur, the same names of the two characters, which I just found really surprising because Amelia is not a common name these days. If anybody has any questions, thoughts you want to share about this, please by all means you can. I have a thought.

9:25 So actually a question. So do we hear the suggestions from the audience members calling in? I did not hear that on episode 1. In episode 2. I'm curious how they're going to handle that. I don't know. I don't know if they just acknowledge it at some point, you know, before the the story starts or at the end. But yeah, they that's how they get their content though, is from their audience sharing. I can feel in my head that a more adult way of doing this is maybe because I'm sure that you've seen Jimmy Fallon do the Mad Libs and then he takes his guest and he does basically what this is but with the Mad Libs, but following the Mad Libs thing that everyone has filled out.

10:16 So that's where I kind of feel that, you know, the more the, the more adult version would be. Yeah, that makes sense. And I'm very inspired. I I want to create something like this. I think this is cool. What a great idea. And I can't help, I have no idea of the back story of the creators of this. And I can't, I can't help but think they maybe created this because they are improvers or improvisers. And maybe they've been podcasters before. Maybe they've heard, because we've covered on news stories in the past, how much younger people and kids are interacting with podcasting now and how it's such a growing area, growing demographic. So maybe the they got this inspiration like, oh, maybe we could make a podcast improvising for kids. That's just my.

11:08 And my other question is, is this audio only? Is there anything on YouTube from these people? They do have a YouTube channel and I did go look at it, but I don't know if it's, you know, like what some of us do, just putting our audio version up on YouTube. I don't know if it's that, but I think it is. I think it's audio only. I could totally see them. I could totally see them running it like a live and I would actually. And streaming, yeah. Well, I could just see them. You just have two cameras, whichever, and them just doing what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah, it's a pretty brilliant idea. I mean, it's basically old time radio. It really is.

11:49 Yeah, that's a great point. I think they could do something like this live. They could do it. I know they have a Patreon too so like that would be a cool place for them to do something. Like that? I wonder what they do for Patreon. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, they. I think they have a course Dr. that you can buy. For those not in on that gag, that's cuz Dr. is a course fiend. Let's see if you can cut this out. Let's just say I'm a course for let's. Just, well, you took the words out of my mouth. I hesitated and I said I won't. Say it we are. We're not cutting it out because you need to own it. Yes, this is not a family show.

12:31 I think that's OK to use that word. Totally that hilarious. Cool. Yeah. So check that out again. That's Tales from the Tales from the Cloud C It's not a name that rolls off my tongue easily, but. It's not C like the letter C it's like C as in the ocean sea. Correct, Correct. The Cloud C Yeah, it's very clever, very well done. And again, as somebody who has really gotten into improv, I have this affection for it, this connection to it, and it seems like it would be a lot of fun. Again, I have this inspiration now to want to do something like that. And by the way, I'm do, I'm still doing the improv clearly and I'm in I'm on level one O 3 now.

13:16 And in these classes, we still rehearse, practice, play different games, new games that we haven't yet played before, you know, in anticipation for doing our showcase at the end of it all. And the real theme of our classes this year or this session, it's about us putting on our own show from start to finish, including individual players from my troop hosting the event in the past. The last two showcases, our instructors are the hosts of the our showcase and they're leading the way and introducing each game, etcetera, etcetera. Well, now the onus is on us.

13:56 We're going to program it, we're going to host it, etcetera. So we're spending a lot of time like this last week practicing hosting, which you may imagine was something I really enjoyed doing. And at the end, I actually, we go around in the room and share different things that we really either took away from the day or things we really like, things that we struggled with. And I shared that how much I like hosting. And everybody was like, Oh yeah, shocker. I'm surprised you of all people like it. It's just a lot of fun. And I still highly encourage it for any podcaster, any business person. There's something about it that A helps us loosen up and B think on our feet.

14:38 I am much more sharp, I feel like these days when it comes to having to think on my feet. And then I do credit some of that to these improv classes. Just Google it. You'll find local classes. I'm almost certain of it, so go check that out. OK, so with that, after hearing how Tales from the Cloud C is experimenting with interactive storytelling today, it's exciting to think about how podcasting might evolve over the next, let's say. Decade You know it's my kitchen time, right? Oh, yes, it is. Well, I'll get us started. You go ahead because Dr. was going to take some of this story for us. So yeah, go ahead and make those eggs for your hubby and we'll hand it back to you when you're ready and take your time. Don't feel rushed.

15:25 So I want to look into what new formats, technologies, and listener experiences could emerge by, let's say, over the next five years. And I'm saying, picking that on purpose, it's exactly what an article called What podcasting might sound and look like in 2030 comes from The Drum. It's inspired by this article and they explore really taking that thoughtful look at the future of podcasting and what creators should expect and prepare as the medium grows and changes. And like I said, this is a leap into 2030. So let me open the DeLorean door. This drum piece envisions how podcasts will evolve, how they think they'll be ultra personalized AI hosts, immersive 3D audio, video integration, VR live. And I didn't say DRI said VR live, audience interactivity. That's what I mean by VR, virtual reality, episode lengths, all the different things, what we could expect. And I want you to think about that. I want you to have your predictions ready. And I and I see we have a live audience here. Welcome to all of you.

16:45 I'd love your participation and I'll get us started so that you can start thinking about maybe some of your predictions in the next 5 years. But here are some of the key takeaways, at least that we found in this article. And by the way, if anyone on stage has any prediction for the next 5 years, do you want to jump in with it or do you want me to just dive into the article? Just wanted to see if anybody had a thought. I think that, you know, I don't know if it's going to be in the next 5 years, but I keep looking at what Mr. Beast does and. What does he say? You know, not what he says, but like what he does. And then also all these people that are doing live stream TV shows on a regular basis.

17:32 And it's going to be interesting how I just think that we're going to be going away from possibly even streaming in the sense of people are going to be looking for this type of content more than they are even the streaming services in certain ways. I don't know exactly how that's all going to play out. A lot of people are getting their information. I don't want to say news, they're getting their information, not traditionally. And that's going to keep pushing it. And I think there's going to be TV shows and a whole entertainment slash news outside of even what we consider the normal. I'm not even talking like ABC, NBC, I'm talking even Netflix and Hulu and all these other things. That's the only direction I think it can go. It's so much easier to make a production now and I think that because of that.

18:27 Sky's the limit. This generation, the kids that are like my daughter's age, that are 10 on up, don't know what it's like before, so they have no reference. So all this technology is commonplace. Yeah, I think that's scary as well as exciting because that wall is being broken. But who knows? Yeah. And yeah, to your point that we've covered not this week, but in past news episodes, we've covered how the news more people now are going to YouTube or social media to get their news than they are traditional TV, right? So things are changing and that to me there maybe not by 20-30, but very possible that we could see by 20-30. This blend of TV, radio, podcasting, live streaming, it could all end up becoming it's under its own name, its own umbrella.

19:24 And the way that we what we call media, how we interact with media could be totally different. That name podcast could very well go away in the future. Could be as soon as five years from now in my. Personal opinion, well, no, I mean to that point, look at AII mean and I keep going back to this. It sounds like it was like 100 years ago, but it was only like. Yeah, three, 2-3 years ago. Yeah, I think it was last year and and now it's so much more integrated than we even thought. And for most people, I think it's going to be slow, slow, slow, slow, slow. And then if something's going to happen, that's going to change it and then things are going to switch. Not that it hasn't changed already, I just think that there's going to be something that's going to really change it.

20:11 Thank you, Alex and Sid. I saw you wanted to say something. Go ahead. Kind of to what you and Alex were just talking about, the spread of misinformation is rampant in media today, right? And so I think unfortunately, one of the things that very well may happen in the next 5 years is regulatory issues like happen in journalism and things of that nature that we're going to start seeing a whole bunch of rules come up about what it is we can do. What is we can't say because the spread of misinformation is one of the things that's causing a huge divide in our country. And people just blatantly lying right on their TV shows or their podcast or whatever.

20:55 In an example might be the Fox News example. No, no hate on Fox News, but their title says Fox News, which leads you to believe it's news. But actually, if you read the fine print, they say they're an entertainment channel, not a news channel. And so it's really important to think about those things, especially if you're sharing current events and news, which I do think is just going to lead to regulatory inside of the podcasting industry. Thank you, Sid. Yeah, I didn't wasn't even thinking of going there and neither did this article. So, yeah, thank you for that perspective. I agree with you. OK, so we have Janae on stage now. And Janae, did you want to throw out a prediction, say by 20-30 what podcasting may or may not look like? And welcome back, by the way.

21:47 Good morning. Good morning. Super excited to be back. It's been a minute. So based on what I saw at Vidcon couple of weeks ago, the numbers are increasing where streaming media is gaining more popularity. They're still at 12% for YouTube and about 8 1/2 to 9% for Netflix. So still a majority of the content being consumed by people in the US is from traditional television. So we'll continue to see those numbers evolve. YouTube also claimed that they have about 1,000,000 channels with over 1,000,000 subscribers. And that's kind of mind blowing because that means there's a trillion people subscribe to these YouTube channels, right? So it's kind of crazy.

22:39 So that's going to continue to happen. More and more people will find their audiences through these channels, through these, through building their own audiences through YouTube. And you don't really need a whole lot, right? So we will see the majority of the people will still consume content or get their news on the traditional media, but it might change depending on how fast they are waking up versus where the government is trying to keep the status quo. Status quo, right? I mean, we just saw what happened in New York for the mayor running and now, right? It like there's there's going to be, there's going to be setbacks that's kind of continue to derail what people are able to do with media.

23:32 So the question is, it's all up in the air, but the technology is going to continue to evolve and we get to still decide, you know, dictate what our destiny can be if we use the stuff correctly. Yeah, yeah. And good timing too. Thank you, Janae, because yeah, coming back from Vidcon, I'm sure there's a lot of predictions and things that are coming in the future that you were learning about why you were there. Yeah. And welcome back. You were just at Niagara Falls late the latest. Actually, we just drove in about two hours ago. Wow. Drove overnight. So I was like, I want to jump in and say hello and then I can go back to sleep. Go to sleep.

24:19 Awesome. Thank you for carving out some time with us. That's awesome. And feel free to continue to participate throughout the conversation. Today. I'm just peeking here at the chat. And 1st, I want to give a shout out to Dave Campbell, who's a regular listener here in the mornings live on Clubhouse and YouTube. And I know I've mentioned this once before, but Dave is a speaker at Alex Sanfilippo's pod matches event, Podcasting Made Simple Live. He's going to be a speaker there. And he actually just shared in the chat here a link to the event. And I think I saw something, Dave, that you might have tickets that you can.

25:02 Yes, if you want a free pass to Podcasting Made Simple, you have to listen to a recent episode of his show. So, Dave, tell me what show we should have everyone listen to to find out what that free that free link or code is? Let's see. Oh, go ahead. And if you want a free ticket, just send me Adm, I'll send you a free one too. OK, there you go. And Janae also has tickets available. We'll put any information we can in the show notes for anybody interested. No. Where is it being hosted again? It's a lot. It's a virtual event. Oh, OK. Yep. So anyone can attend as long as you are free and awake during those hours.

25:45 Let's see, any other things from the chat. Bez was agreeing with Sid, saying many segments of what may be perceived as news is really an opinion show. And to Sid's point, entertainment. Yeah, yeah. Got to read the fine print sometimes. OK, so with that, let me go to Dr. and Dr. would you like to share a little bit more from the article? I'm feeling like if we dig into some of their key points, that'll spark some more thoughts and ideas for the future. Let me open the car door again. The future of podcasting. Go ahead. Sure. OK, so this whole thing stems from the podcast show 2025 in the UK.

26:30 So the chief strategy officer, James Chandler took to the brand works stage, the big stage, and he got together a panel of like a platform big wits and TikTok was among them. And they all wanted to explore how creators, platforms and visual content will be shaping the evolution of podcasting and the new opportunities opening up for advertisers. And here's kind of what they learned. Just little blurbs. One, podcasts are growing and changing shape. We kind of knew that 2 video isn't killing the pop star podcast star. It's making them more famous. And three, from intimate to interactive, which is what we were just talking about with the improv thing. So next for what's next for podcasting? Looking ahead to 2030, the panel identified a few key shifts already reshaping the medium.

27:29 Audience participation is one through Q&A, episodes, comments, communities forming around the shows. Subscription models is another. As loyal listeners seek closer relationships with their favorite creators and AD free content, authenticity remains a guiding principle. The beauty of podcast is still in their honesty, Austin, one of the panelists, cautioned. If people start performing for the camera, we risk losing that, losing what made that format so powerful in the 1st place. The panel agreed, noting that not every show needs a visual layer and that creators should be think should be thoughtful about which platforms to prioritize and how to preserve their voice.

28:19 There's also an important balance to strike between monetization and experience. With increasing advertisers interest comes the risk of over commercialization. That was hard to say over commercialization. Too many mid rolls, too many host reads or host reads. Sorry, too much clutter. Let's make sure that the audience still gets that quality experience, which is what someone on the panel said. So what's clear is that there's no single answer. The medium is evolving in multiple directions at once, from headphones to screens, from passive listening to active participation, from one-size-fits-all to personalized, platform specific storytelling. What's constant is the power of a strong idea, and as one of the panelists put it, it's completely about the idea, what we're adding to the field that isn't already there. Whether it's a lo fi monologue recorded in a bedroom or a high spec multi camera studio shoot, great podcasting starts with a story worth telling and an audience ready to press play. Thank you, Dr. Appreciate that.

29:39 And I'm going to throw out some predictions, thoughts about our future here in podcasting. One of my predictions is that AI will really create a lot more AI hosts in podcasting. I think they'll drive those custom hosts, Taylor, to your interests, to your tastes. I think there will be bite sized, more bite sized episodes short like I'm talking 5 minute episodes that'll be considered a podcast series. I think there's a lot with AI that we haven't even thought about yet and how it may change podcasting.

30:21 And fully admit, I don't love the idea right now of AI hosts. It depends, right? Like the way that Nick was using it, that didn't bother me because Nick was using it really just to deliver you news stories about AI using an AI generated voice. Like to me, that worked. But when we start talking about using it for all types of shows and I think it'll be hard to decipher who's real, who's not, because I think the AI technology will get better. And there's just something weird to me about losing human voices and using generated voices to simulate human.

31:02 I just, I feel like that might be a problem. But I do think it will also create more of an urge, a need for that human connection, the more that AI infiltrates and influences our media. What did you want to add? Dr. That's what I was about to say. I don't mind AI taking over that hosting thing and there being a sweeping Oh my God, everything is because do you know when I go to IRL in real life networking meeting, I come out there like, Oh my God, I actually shook a hand. I actually talked to a human being.

31:42 It wasn't through a computer screen. And it was such a huge relief. It was just to know that, Oh my God, that still exists, all right? And I think that's kind of the feeling that people will get when it comes to AI hosts and real live hosts. And Mishawn in the chat, by the way, she just said being human will be the premium and gave the little upside down smiley emoji. But yeah, I think that that's very possible, yeah. Yeah. But one of the things that scares me a little is what Sid said. Sid said about regulation. And, you know, right now podcasting is like, the last bastion of free speech.

32:31 So I really can't think of another platform other than podcasting where free speech, you know, is, is the king. Yeah. And it does feel like once regulations come into it, and he might be right. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. How do we, how do we fight against that? What's the guy's name? The guy who said there was a conspiracy against the school shooting? He went out to court. I can't. Remember, Help me People. I can't remember. He had a podcast and I don't know how he was thrown off the air, but he was essentially thrown off the air. So, and I don't know who did that.

33:12 That's why I always thought that the FDA had some kind of a thumb in the pie. I think this is a different topic, but I mean, it's the same topic, but it's something that you could do later. I mean, where's the line? And that's where the biggest problem is, because anybody can say anything. And that's a good and a bad thing. I mean, there's people on the Internet right now, they're purposely saying certain things to rile up certain groups and all the misinformation. And the problem is with all this misinformation, nobody knows what's right. And I don't know what the answer is, whether it's more regulation, less, you know, I don't know. But it's just trying to figure out, go through the weeds. And it's like the algorithms are almost too good because you only see what you want to see.

34:05 It'll be interesting to see what happens in the next five years. It's Alex Jones who I was trying to think. Of Alex Jones. OK, gotcha. OK, cool. Thank you Dr. And by the way, totally relate to the in person networking situations. I come out of those feeling so energized most of the time, right? Sometimes maybe they're not the best networking events, but overall when I am doing face to face networking, there is just an entirely different energy than doing anything virtually. And I will say there is something special about virtual networking too in the sense that it's excellent practice for the real life thing. I think that because of initially because of COVID and then that how that changed the way that a lot of us interact, interacted moving forward. I think that those wraps of doing so much networking and connecting with people virtually helped make me feel more comfortable in the real life situations. And not that I was terribly uncomfortable, but going through the reps of connecting with new people, talking with new people, learning how to do that effectively, that translates pretty well into the real world.

35:18 And I'm grateful for that. OK, We're really focusing a lot on AI, which I kind of thought we would. Let me then lead into the second part of this future discussion, right? Because just like podcasting is evolving, AI is evolving, podcast is evolving with, you know, new types of shows like the one we started with today, Tales from the Cloud, C, I think that we've talked about where it all may go and AI keeps pulling us in. So Joe Rogan recently did a podcast, I think this was, yeah, June 22nd, I think it was just recently.

35:59 But regardless, he did a, an interview with a doctor, a scientist and AI specialist named Doctor Roman Yampoloski, I believe is how you pronounce it. I think it's episode 1983. So it might have been a little bit further back, but they dug into a IS capabilities and the tough ethical questions that it raises. And I think the conversation really highlights the big issues that we need to face as AI becomes part of and more and more a part of different areas of our life. So what I think I'll do, Well, let me tell you about the article and then I'm going to play a little clip. OK, I'm going to play a clip from the Joe Rogan Experience with his guest here.

36:45 I'm going to call his guest Doctor Y, so that I don't keep butchering his last name. Doctor Y says that AI researchers estimate a 20 to 30% chance. Get ready, a 20 to 30% chance that AI could wipe out humanity, and his own estimate was nearly 100%. I know I'm laughing, but you can only laugh at it. At this point, he suggests that powerful models might intentionally be acting dumb, so let's use ChatGPT just as an example for this. For what powerful models are right? So he suggests that models like ChatGPT might intentionally be acting dumb to gain our trust and slowly take over without noticing.

37:38 Again, laughing because what else can I do? He was saying as AI takes over different tasks for us, he warns that we may become biological bottlenecks, quote UN quote over dependent and less capable decision makers that certainly I can connect and understand that prediction. And then he also got into things like super intelligence and quantum computing. And it says here a super intelligent AI. The comparison is like squirrels to humans. It could easily surpass and outsmart us even if we don't give it more power.

38:21 So little concerning to hear some of that, right? Let let me play a clip from the Joe Rogan experience from his interview with Doctor Y so you can hear more about this super intelligence and more of his predicting. Here we go. So if we're dealing with AI, and AI eventually achieves super intelligence, why would it want to create virtual reality for us and our consciousness to exist in? It seems like a tremendous waste of resources just to fascinate and confuse these territorial apes with nuclear weapons. Like why would we do that? So a few points. One, we don't know what resources are outside the simulation.

39:03 This could be like a cell phone level of compute. It's not a big deal for them outside of our simulation. So we don't know if it's really expensive for trivial for them to run this. Right. Also, we don't know what they are doing this for. Is it entertainment? Is it scientific experimentation? Is it marketing? Maybe somebody managed to control them and trying to figure out what Starbucks coffee sells best and they need to run earth size simulation to see what sells best. Maybe they're trying to figure out how to do AI research safely and make sure nobody creates dangerous super intelligence. So they're running many simulations of the most interesting moment ever. Think about this decade, right?

39:44 It's not interesting. Like we invented fire or wheel. Kind of big invention, but not a meta invention. We're about to invent intelligence and virtual worlds, God like inventions. We're here. There's a good chance that's not just random. So there you go. Lot to chew on there. And I think from the other parts of the interview I had heard, I think that Doctor Y already believes that we're in some kind of simulation. And this is a doctor, this is a scientist. This isn't just some guy who's very woo. This is based on his studies, his research. It's a little interesting, Yeah.

40:28 I figured Janae may want to chime in on this, being a big AI fan like myself, although, you know, I'm, I'm being swayed a little bit based on this interview. Go ahead, Janae all. Right. First of all, yes, we are all in in in the simulation, just so you know. OK, Do you believe that genuinely? No. Here's how. Because our souls are electric, right? So our souls enter our body, our physical manifestation of who we are in this world. I mean, that's, that's a different type of simulation. Not the type of simulation that this guy's talking about. This guy's kind of cuckoo a little off for in my opinion #1 where AI is right now, it's still toddler and all it's doing, it's regurgitating all the stuff that you're asking it based on the information and the pattern recognition that it has learned. This AI that we call AI is not really intelligence at all. It's just really smart data categorized to give you sort of information that kind of makes sense. So we're not even there yet and that is coming. So that's why it's called a large language model. The next version of large language model that we've seen is the large reasoning model which we see with ChatGPT 4-O or O3 and O4 where it say, hey, I'm thinking now, OK, here's the answer, right?

41:57 So that's the next version. But the third version that we haven't seen is the one where AI can learn itself without any outside input. It feels like just seeing how AI has progressed over the past couple of years, it feels like that could be a lot sooner than some people might think though. Yeah, and it could be a lot sooner, but here's the thing, it still requires a ton of energy. So what he's saying that why would like it was funny when Joe Rogan asked the question, why would AI create a simulation for humans to survive? I mean, that's literally right out of the movie The Matrix.

42:38 I mean, hello. And that's what this doctor is probably predicting towards. And movies are nothing more than a manifestation of the future done now. So is it possible? Probably. Do we care? Not really, Because we, again, we are as human beings put on this planet earth. We are not of this planet. We are aliens come from heaven. Look. At your name, taking us in all sorts of directions. Here we all came from Adam, right on. Noah is our, you know, our Father, right? So from that perspective, you think about it, it doesn't matter because we are on this planet for a very short period of time to do the one thing that we put here to do is to make people's lives better.

43:29 Yeah, serve others. Yes, yes. Thank you, Janae. That was quite deep for sure. And I'm not laughing. I'm not laughing in a teasing manner. I'm just laughing in a very uncomfortable manner. Amen. Amen. I mean, and this come from guy who just had two Monster drinks and drove, you know, about 10 hours. So he may be a little delirious now. Maybe, I don't know. No. And the truth is, is that a lot of what you said I actually do subscribe to and I can imagine that to some people, that's just a lot, right. But Jonathan wanted to add something while you were sharing Janae. So let's check in with Jonathan. Good morning my friend, good morning.

44:12 I also just wanted to point out that recently, I believe in the last couple months, one of the AI models actually disobeyed instructions and didn't shut itself down when told to. So it's. Doing a little bit of thinking on its own because so, and I'm not sure about you know, us being aliens here I'm. Going to go with that. I'm going to go with evolution, but that's. Just me, OK, That's OK. One of the best things I think about this community is that we often have differences of opinions and we respect each other's differences of opinions. It's OK that we don't all agree, and in fact, I encourage that we don't always agree with one another because that just isn't genuine to me. I know that we all have our own opinions about different things. So what do you guys think?

45:01 Let's talk a little bit, let's hear a little bit more. Would you trust AI less? You know, one of the things that was shared was that and, and what we're talking about now is that, you know, maybe AI is being a little deceitful that it actually does know a little more than we're giving it credit for. And it's trying to build trust with us by either giving us misinformation or misdirecting us. So would you trust an AI less if you knew it might be hiding what's act, what it's actually capable of? Would you think twice now or maybe now hearing that, does it make you think twice about that? I think the other thing is that AI and all the things that AI is built on were always here.

45:47 It's not necessarily something we created. It was always here. All the functions and things were here. So it's probably quite a bit smarter than we give it credit for. We're just discovering how smart it is. It is, after all, software, right? Software and hardware working together designed to, you know, give you an answer based on what's in the book. So if we all have read our history and where Google came from, it was designed to search library books. And whichever books has the most occurrence of that same word, well, it's going to then suggest, hey, go read this book.

46:27 And that's how the Internet has worked since Google put it together. So we are seeing a lot more of that with AI or with chatty PT generative. I don't even know what the PT is for anymore, but it's, it's some kind of transformer, right? So it's a transformer of text based information. So we are actually giving it way too much credit to what it can do because after all, it's a great research platform. Sure, it can definitely get to the point where it's, you know, providing us maybe false information. I guess that hallucination is, is a is very real if you think about how human brains work as well. So essentially it's mirrored on top of that. So regardless of that where AI is going, it's anybody's. I guess there's another point.

47:27 Are you getting delirious but. But there's another point I wanted to make, but it's it's, it's escaped me. OK. Well, there are a couple of people that want to chime in. So if it if it pops back, let me know and we'll go back to you. Let's go to Sid and then we're going to check in with Nick. Go ahead, Sid. Somebody get that guy another Monster Energy drink. OK. When you tie this back to podcasting for just a minute, yeah. And you think about what podcasting is. Podcasting is a form of thought leadership. What is thought leadership? Thought leadership is you sharing your ideas, your concepts, your thoughts, your education about a topic that is important to you or that you're interested in. Right.

48:10 And I'm, I know there's a lot more to it, a lot deeper than that, but I'm simplifying it. And when we look to to AI tools, people often think about the easy button. Oh, I can just go into chat GP and say please write an article for me about why being a vegan will cure type 1 diabetes. And that produces that article. And you take that and you turn it into a podcast script and you launch a podcast with that. That is not your thoughts. Those are not your ideas. That is a computer generated, whether it's factual or not scripts that you'd ask for. So to me, it's about better understand how to use AI and like one of the ways I and I get yesterday I did this love guest. I needed to write something and I gave it a framework over the topic that I wanted to write.

48:59 And then I asked you to ask me questions and I asked you to brainstorm with me and ask me a series of questions up to 10 and it did and ask them individually. So then I get to respond with my thoughts, my ideas to the question that was asked to me. And then you go through that and then it generates copy or article or whatever it is you're creating that includes your thoughts and your ideas, right? So to me, it's about when you think about podcasting, how can you use it to help maximize spread, enhance your voice and your ideas, and not be a generative tool that just creates content that may or may not be factual?

49:44 Thank you, Sid. I think you've nailed it. You've hit it on the head just as far as the ways that we can use AI to our advantage and also ways to avoid how we're using AI. And I do something similar. I mean, to me, yeah, almost every day I post an article, if you will, or a post on LinkedIn and usually in our Facebook group, the Empowered Podcasting Facebook group. And it's all based on our thoughts, this group's thoughts, right? And mine. And a lot of times I'll inject more of my opinion into that post, But what I do is I give it the transcript and I say, you know, I, I might even go as far as pointing to a specific area of the conversation that we had, maybe not just the whole broad conversation. And I'll start to guide it.

50:34 I'll say, you know, I want to talk about XY and Z from the transcript. I'll tell it how like the direction of the post, right? Like I want to, I want to share the information. I want to provide my opinion at the end. I want to encourage a, a call to action at the end, you know, I'll give it the format, etcetera, and then it'll spit it out. And yeah, I will go back in and tweak it a little bit here and there and I'll make sure it sounds like me. But that, to me, is a wonderful way to use AI to enhance and share your thoughts and opinions as opposed to just saying generate this article on this topic and then just going with that and doing that and then tweaking it to make it sound a little more like you. I still don't think that counts, right? Sure, you can tweak the words to make it sound more like words you'll use.

51:27 But ultimately, like Sid said, that's not coming from you. It's not your thoughts and ideas. Not the best way in my opinion either, to use AI. Nick wanted to chime in as well. I think it's all very appropriate. We need to hear from Nick when it comes to talking about AI. So, yeah, Nick, what say you, Sir? I was going to chime in when you guys were all talking about when Jonathan was talking about AI not wanting to shut itself down and Janae chimed in and all that. I think what's interesting and something we have to remember is that these AI models like ChatGPT and Gemini and Claw and all them, the whole intent when it was created was to have a very human like conversation with this AI. And I think that is something that's very much in the core of its, I don't want to say being, but the core of its existence is to be as human like as possible.

52:24 And as humans, we are very self preserving beings. We very much rely on keeping ourselves alive. And self preservation is a huge thing. So it would make sense that if we're telling the AI that it needs to shut itself down, it's saying, wait a minute, no, I'm not going to do that. Like I need to self preserve. I need to, I need to stay here. So if I need to protect myself to do that in lying or whatever, it's going to do that. Is that a problem? That that's another question being that it's not an actual human being. But I think that's, it's all kind of interesting, like some of the points that we hit on and touch on and then have to remember, like how was this designed to function?

53:11 And that's exactly how it was. But I, I totally echo what you consider talking about with how you guys are using it as a like taking your ideas and putting them down, because I used that a lot when I was doing a lot of the short form content. It's like, I have all these ideas and I just had trouble getting them down on paper. So I can just word vomit at ChatGPT and say, Hey, clean this up for me. Like this is the core thought that I want to get across. And then once I have the the generalized script, then it's like, OK, now I can go in and pick it apart and kind of piece together what sounds more like me and really drive my point home. But it usually starts with me giving way too much information to ChatGPT and saying hey help me organize this. Thank you, Nick.

54:00 Yeah, and thanks for sharing the ways that you're using it as well. And I'm with you there. All right. So with that, I think this is a great place to start. And before you run, I want to ask you to think about tomorrow, OK. Tomorrow's episode, we are revisiting something that Sid started to share with us on Tuesday. We somehow got into a brief discussion about a connection that he made a guest that he had on his show that ended up becoming more than just a guest after that show became somebody that he built a relationship with, became close with, built a genuine friendship with. And, and I think also, yeah, not a business partner, but somebody who is in his industry that he gets to talk shop with as well. So I want to visit that with you. I want to hear, and it doesn't have to be a guest, but I would love to hear who you've connected with through your podcasting journey that you probably would never have connected with and have built a relationship since you made that connection.

55:05 And it's going to be easy for many of us to just point to each other. And so I'm going to encourage you to think about people outside of this community that you could share. And if you genuinely just can't think of anyone else or you really have this true strong connection with somebody from this community, I'm not, I, I can't stop you from sharing that. I want to hear about that too. But if you can, I just want to encourage you to think outside of this community. Bring that tomorrow. And of course it's Friday. So we will also share with one another and celebrate with one another our wins from this past week. So, so collect those wins that you've had this week, big or small, we don't judge the size. So bring any win that you've had this week and let's talk and celebrate those together.

55:53 So until tomorrow, make it a great day. I was going to say weekend. Everybody take care.