380 - Should You Niche Down or Open Up?

0:04 Good morning podcasting Morning Chats. Today is Thursday, October 2nd, 2025, and today an indie podcaster is challenging the niche down rule. And we've got thoughts. We'll dive into the chaos, the freedom, and the lessons that come with niching down. So if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, bottom left hand, side of the screen and share it. However Clubhouse lets you. And if you're catching this live on YouTube or podcast, please share this episode with a fellow podcaster. And now give us about 30 seconds and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here.

1:20 Good morning again podcasting, Morning Chat. Thank you so much for being here. I am your host Mark Ronik on stage with me. Currently we have Nick Naulback, producer Ashley Feller, Phil Better, Sid Meadows, Dr. Fey and Rich Perry. 2 new names, Well, not new to the community per SE, but maybe new new names. In my little intro, Phil has said he wants to be here at least a couple times a week, and same with Rich for that matter. So I say the more the merrier. Good to have both of these two who I respect and admire on stage with us today.

2:01 I think they'll add a lot to today's conversation. Who came off Mike Dr. Yeah, welcome to the family. Indeed welcome. Good to have you both here and good to see some people filing in the room this morning. Not like last time where that you all made us sweat it out for the first few minutes and good to see some familiar faces. You're welcome to join us up on stage if you'd like. Today, we're going to go back to a segment that I've started recently and we're going to talk more about that as well. But but first we'll dig into the actual content. We're going to play a clip or two if there's time, two different clips from two different creators and we're going to talk about some of these clips.

2:48 The first one this is from an independent podcaster. Her name is Jacqueline Monroe, and she's going to share some thoughts on her beliefs around niching down or maybe up, depending on how you look at it. Dr. Do you think this we, we should talk a little bit? I know you did a little investigative work just to get to know this podcaster a little bit who I know has built up somewhat of a following on TikTok. I think she's got well over 20,000 followers over there and I know she has a podcast as well. You want to just tell us a little bit about her? Right. So it's interesting. I went to go do a little bit of sleeping and she has like a lot of podcasts.

3:32 She made some kind of statement that early on in her podcasting day she was doing like she was going on the she was doing a an episode a day just to get in the reps, you know, so but after a certain time of doing that, she got very, very long, like Rogan esque type of episodes. There has not been one that's been under an hour for quite a while. So I'm looking at 2 hours and 54 minutes, one hour and 17 minutes, you know, so she is, she's a long talker. And I just rushed through one of the episodes and I didn't hear any advertisers, any so. Which isn't necessarily a criticism, just an observation. An observation, right?

4:27 And it's tells me that maybe this might be, you know, like a hobby, This might be a passion project. Yeah, and when I play the clip, I I feel like maybe we get a different impression. Or at least for me, she gives me a different impression. It feels like she does take it and not that we don't take our hobby seriously, right, but she, I feel like she takes it a step further, I should say, than a hobby, at least the way that she's communicating. She's been doing it a while. We'll hear from her in this clip. She'll share a little bit, I think, about her background. I've never loved the phrase hobby. As someone who doesn't have a monetization thing going on, I've never loved that phrase.

5:07 I think maybe just passion project or something like that. OK, well there you go. Dr. thinks maybe she's a passion project podcaster and it really, honestly, in my opinion, it doesn't matter really what kind of podcaster, she's takes it seriously enough based on the info she shares. Let me play the clip for you and then I have some questions for reactions, thoughts, opinions, etcetera. I'm going to hit the right button this time, I promise. Let's hear from Jacqueline If you want to start a podcast, this is my number one piece of advice. I've been hosting my own show for the last three years and I have nearly 400 episodes under my belt, So I feel qualified to speak on this tip is to not worry so much about niching down podcast is called the Jacqueline Monroe Show and it's literally a show about whatever I want to talk about.

5:56 I didn't put myself in a box. I wanted to have the creative freedom to talk about whatever's going on in my life, whatever's going on in pop culture, the news society, whatever. I wanted the freedom to be able to do that. And so I, from the jump didn't niche down. I actually come from the perspective that people will probably resonate with what you're talking about more. If you're truly interested in it and you're not putting yourself in a box every week. Those podcasts do really well. And some people do have passions for a certain topic where they really prank out content on that subject every week with no issue. But for me, I like having the creative freedom to speak my mind about whatever I want. If you're starting out right now and getting going with podcasting and you're worried about niching down, my tip is just be yourself. Talk about whatever you want to talk about and just get your reps in.

6:42 When I started my podcast, I recorded a podcast seven days a week for almost 300 days in a row. I got my reps in, right, like got good at podcasting and I was literally obsessed with it. So freeing to get on the mic every day and not have a specific subject to talk about. So if you're kind of stuck again right now, don't worry so much about Nisha down. Just get on the microphone, talk about whatever you want, post it. That's my tip. Don't worry so much about Nisha down. There you go. Thank you to Jacqueline Monroe. We'll share a link to this TikTok video if you're interested in following her. So let's talk about this clip. OK? Dr. already has her hand up. I'll go to her and then I'm going to ask everybody I have questions.

7:25 I'll just tease it. The first question I'll ask everybody Is niching down actually smarter in today's podcast world? I think this is the perfect recipe for pod fade. When someone comes to me and says I'm thinking about doing a podcast, what's the very first thing I should do? I tell them, come up with 26 topics, 26 topics. That'll be probably about 1/2 and 1/2 a year. And then when you get to the 26th 1, go back around and do it again. The same thing that you did. That is a whole year full of topics that you can do instead of I mean, honestly, Mark, you and I sit around sometime going, OK, we don't have a topic today.

8:16 OK, what do we do? OK, and we start to panic. We start to panic. So write down 26 topics. You know, we do a show every day for God's sake. So if you do a weekly show, 26 topics, we'll get you through a full year. I want to get your definition real quick of topics right? Because when you say 26 topics, it makes me feel like, oh, in this subject of niching down, it doesn't feel like a niche down when we say, OK, get a list of 26 different things, different topics. So can you define that a little bit more? My clients and yours, I mean they are monetizing. They have a specific something that they're talking about.

8:58 They're not talking about a mass killer one day and they're baking cupcakes. They have a cupcake recipe for you the next day. So they are very specific. They are notching their belt for everyone as an authority figure in that niche. We keep using that word. Well, that's going to come up a lot today. Yeah, yeah. That's what I specialize in. I am not for the no niche is good niche. I'm not for that. OK, well there is oh, I see we've got a poll question niching down a smart move or not? Yes, that's the question I want to go with today. And Ashley, I almost feel like we need 1/3 option because I see we've got yes and no there.

9:41 We almost need an an on the fence or it depends category because I am on the fence currently. I have a lot of thoughts on this, but I am on the fence on it. Who else would like to share? Is this is niching down actually smarter in today's podcast world? All right, I'm going to go to Sid first. Go for it, Sid. Good morning. The answer to this question is coming from somebody who has an extremely niche podcast about office furniture, right? And so I'm on the fence though, because I'm thinking about starting a second podcast and our third actually have a second one that's dormant, but I'm actually thinking about niching up with mine.

10:23 I'm on the fence with her. So thank you, Ashley, for adding the third topic. But DRI, have a question for you. Why is it that you're tying being in a niche to monetization? What if the person doesn't want to monetize? What if they're looking to just share their voice about something? They're not looking to make money with it? I don't necessarily call that a passion project, but excuse me, their goal is not to make money at this point in time, so why are you tying the two together? The people that I deal with are in it to make money. I keep worrying about if you don't make money from this, how are you going to pay me? You know, this is my living. I need to know that I have to have some kind of security that I'm going to get paid. So you need to make this something of a monetization project.

11:09 But I could challenge that thought process just a minute because a company could hire you to produce a podcast for them and just decide they don't want to pay you. So I don't know that the two actually go here. I don't know the two actually go hand in hand that me making money because that's actually a little bit of judging me and my ability to do something assuming that if I don't monetize my podcast that I can't pay you. It'll be the same. The company may decide not to pay you. So I don't know that the 2GO hand in hand. I wouldn't be working. They pay me upfront, so if that money is not there, then Mama doesn't work for you. I don't think the two are tied together because you're, you're assuming that I don't have any money because my podcast is not monetized, but I have to pay you upfront and I'm not monetizing.

11:58 I've got 26 episodes you're going to do with me because I named them all. You're assuming that I don't have the money to do it. So anyways, this is a little bit of a different conversation, but I don't know that tying the two together is the right approach for me anyway to if you have a niche, you have to monetize because a lot of people don't want to monetize. Or have different ways of monetizing other than directly through the podcast with say sponsorship as an example. This is, you know, kind of a separate conversation, but I actually don't think it is. I think this is part of the conversation because I think that to, to be fair to DRI think that that's how a lot of the experts, professionals, that's the mindset they're in when they're suggesting to niche down.

12:44 It's not the only mindset, but I do think that they encourage nicheing down because they think it's a, it makes it more simple to monetize your podcast. When you have a very specific niche, then you can cater to a very specific audience who in theory will be a captured audience and engaged audience. And then when you're asking them to buy a product, get a service who's ever product or service that may be, then they're more likely to trust you, more likely to listen to you and and make that purchase. So I think it is worth part of this conversation for sure. Who else wanted to share?

13:26 I saw a few. Oh, Nick, Nick, I know wanted to chime in on this. So what do you think Nick? Is niching down actually smarter in today's podcast world? I personally think it is smarter just from a growth and strategy standpoint. And the reason I say that is because if you are talking in like a very broad sense of your shows, very broad, you don't really know who you're talking to. You don't know who your target audience is. You don't know who you're trying to reach with your show. You don't know who you are actually reaching with your show. And that makes it very difficult to build trust with that audience. I, I do think hearing her clip and I think Dr. mentioned she already you did that.

14:09 She kind of blew up on TikTok a little bit. I kind of see this like what she's doing almost as like long form TikTok for her because I do see a lot of creators that just can go on there talk about whatever's going on in their life and they do build an audience from that. Like people are fascinated by their story or whatever they're sharing. It could be something really simple and people are going to care. People are going to care. But I do think that takes a certain personality. I think me trying to go do that and just tell people what I'm doing in my daily life, people will probably be like, Oh my gosh, like just put me out of my misery because I don't have that kind of like that enthusiasm that that energy that I bring to the table that other people do.

14:55 I still think that from a strategic standpoint, if you want to grow and you want to grow quicker and easing down is a better route just because you can really define who you're talking to. You know what their problems are. You know where they get excited, You know when they get upset, you know where they're struggling in whatever that topic is. And when you just keep too broad, it could, It could literally be anything. The possibilities are infinite. And then it becomes very difficult to actually speak to that person. Thank you, Nick. Appreciate your take. I think those are some important things to consider when you're considering whether or not to niche down. So I want to keep things moving.

15:38 I'm going to go. We have several people from the audience that have joined us on stage. Let me go to Amanda Yoa first. Welcome back, Amanda. What do you want to add to this conversation? Is it a smart move these days to still niche down? Good morning. I will say it depends and I feel like let's bring ourselves or let's define the word niche because I think a lot of the times when you so niche, for me it feels very boxy and it feels very restricted and putting yourself in that box, I think it really means knowing your brand. Now if your podcast is an extension of your business, obviously you're going to talk about things that are business related. That goes without saying.

16:23 Outside of that, I do still feel that you can bring your brand to your show, whereas like, you know, in a sense, you're bringing who you are to your show. I had to figure out my brand voice and identity before I could really hunker down on, OK, now let's bring this to my show. And for me, it was having to loosen up that niche. So I would say to look at it as like, OK, maybe your niche has pillars, right? Instead of looking at it as a box. And I can only speak on these things. And if I go outside of that, my audience is not going to like if there's things going on in the world, your audience might appreciate you touching on it right before moving on to the topic of the day like that, that relatability and that realness is appreciated.

17:11 Nowadays you hear from all the streamers that are making like $1,000,000 a day. They say throw the niche out. Right now we're speaking specifically on a podcast, but a lot of times your podcast is an extension of something else that you are doing in the virtual world or in real life. So for me, it was having to loosen up that niche and knowing my brand identity, knowing my brand voice and bringing that to the topics that I am choosing that I know are going to resonate with the community that I already grew in the social spaces. Yeah, thank you, Amanda. So I want to ask you if you were coaching a brand new podcaster who is probably hearing it from most people, if they're doing their due diligence that they do need to niche down, would you what, what would you tell them? What advice would you give them?

18:00 Because I've heard several Nuggets that you shared here. And in some cases, you could make the argument that, yes, niche down as a new podcaster to maybe, maybe that makes your life more simple. But on the other hand, maybe if you're not putting yourself in a box, like you said, maybe that's the smarter way to go when when you're starting out. So what say you? What would you What advice would you give a brand new podcaster? As a brand new podcaster, I would say build your brand, right? I think that should come first over what's your niche. Build your brand and it might found the same, but I think asking someone to build their brand rather than what's your niche? I don't know, for some reason that kind of gets people suck. So what's your brand identity?

18:47 What's your voice? And for me, it was like building that avatar of a version of myself so that I can, you know, speak on things that relate to me and then therefore will relate to people who resonate with, you know, with with the things that I'm speaking on. So if somebody's new in the podcasting realm, then they solely have a podcast. I'm going to tell them to build their brand. What are some things you love speaking on? What are your passions? And go from there. I started out, I was very niche, as you know, Mark, I started out, I was very niched down. I did the inspo right. And as I evolved, I kind of had to loosen that up a little bit because I wasn't really building a community through just speaking on inspiration week after week after week.

19:29 Yeah, that makes sense. OK, so there you go from Amanda. I appreciate you digging in. And I know Victoria, Nick, you really want to chime in, but I know Victoria does too. Nick, I'll ask you this. Is this along the lines of what Amanda was sharing? Because I think Victoria feels the same, that she wants to get something out based on some things. Amanda's talking about the. Long lines of what Amanda was saying, but sorry I can go first. OK, there you go. What a gentleman. Go ahead, Victoria. Good morning. Welcome back to the stage. Hey, good morning guys. Thanks for having me back. When I saw this topic today, I was like, oh, I'm jumping in live. So I think, you know, I posted in the comments, I think this whole thing is around niche. Niches are misunderstood. We think they're teeny tiny and maybe what we need to be reframing it is is topical.

20:14 So what are the topics that I'm talking about high as to what Amanda's saying in terms of what's your brand? Your brand is the things that you, you don't know, love and share that you identify with, that you are most equipped to talk about. So even in your example early on of the podcaster who says, well, I'm not niche, yeah, but I'm betting your audience, her audience is a group of people that are like her. You know, whether it's 20 something or 30 something or 40 something, each of us are speaking and engaging a group and a set of topics that has relevance to people that fit within a certain avatar that are interested in either your lifestyle and the things that you're interested in, your business and the things that you're interested in, your hobbies and the things that you're interested in. We are naturally developing A niche or topically focused podcast that aligns with our own audience and our own people that are like us, that think like us, that want to hear more from us. Victoria, I resonate with that because when I think about my last podcast, the Mark and Lowell show it there wasn't a specific niche we didn't have, you know, pillars per SE of like these are the three things that we're going to always talk about.

21:37 We talked about what resonated with us in that moment we were recording. We talked about whether it was maybe old stories or current events in pop culture, whatever really floated our boat. But to your point, the audience was a very specific audience. I could tell you the demographics, the ages, the, you know, does it skew more male, female. I, I know we had a certain type of audience and for the most part they were a lot like us. They liked the same things we did and they liked us as hosts. And I think you put that together and you do have a niche. Just maybe. Maybe not by the definition we're used to. I think it's great and I'm going to let other people jump in.

22:17 I wanted to speak to what Amanda was talking about and I I think this brings the conversation of niching down less about niching down and more about understanding your audience. As a podcaster, do you actually understand your audience? Because Amanda's talking about niching up, so to speak, opening up that niche a little bit, but she had a very clear understanding of who her audience was. She was very savvy in understanding who they are, what they're expecting, what they want to, where. She had the ability to open that up. Like people are going to resonate more if I do open that up. I would say for the vast majority of podcasters, especially in the beginning stages when they're starting the podcast, they don't understand who that audience is. And to just keep it entirely broad and say, I'm not going to do a niche, I'm just going to talk about whatever. They have no idea who their audience is, who they're talking to, any of that stuff.

23:12 They're just hoping that if they talk, people are going to want to listen. I personally think if you are just starting a podcast, it does make more sense to me if you do start hyper focused and really niche down until you understand who the audience is that you're speaking to. And then start opening up to like broaden that scope. Or as you better understand your audience, open it up just because you have a better feel for what they want and what they expect. I like that. Nick, as you were revving up and sharing your answer there, I was thinking of asking you, well, what if you're brand new to podcasting or if your audience, your current podcaster and your audience is small enough where it's really hard to say who they are? And then you went ahead and answered that. Yeah, I lean towards that with you. I think as a brand new podcaster to create a specific focus will help you.

24:12 And then I think as you get to know your audience, you can start to loosen things up a little bit and talk more about the things that you and your audience enjoy talking about or are interested in talking about. I'm really enjoying this conversation and the, the banter as well as the different thought processes. And I, I really, really appreciate what Victoria said in the chat specifically about, you know, topical. Because when I think about my show, I mean, people would say my show is really niche because it's about office furniture, but it's actually not about office furniture. I'm talking to the people in the office furniture community. So that might be my topic, right? The people in the office furniture industry. But my show talks about a lot of different things yeah, we talked about manufacturers, we talked about some of the challenges, but I also have a really successful sex, you know, series inside of my show called Tend to Win, where it's a professional development topic.

25:06 And I talked about something that helps you grow, something that you should focus on how you can make a be a better professional, be a better person. But I'm also talking a lot about AI because AI is impacting everything. So I like this that my topic is focused on those people inside the office furniture industry. And to Amanda's point where I have a brand, I have a brand there. People know me because of my writing and because of my podcast and other things. And I speak out about our industry and the challenges in our industry. So I like this reframing, if you will, of being topical versus niche because I think now that I'm hearing this, that's more of what I am, is that my topic is office furniture and the people in the industry, that's who I'm targeting. But what I talk about is different, not just office. I think that's a wonderful approach, right? Because now, OK, so Sid is in the office furniture industry. He's interviewing people in that industry and he's not talking about that stuff.

26:05 So I mean, think about what you do, right? So with me, I could create a new podcast series and I'm interviewing all the different podcast experts out there. And we're not talking about podcasting specifically. I'm sure it likely comes up just like Sid. I'm sure it like office furniture stuff does come up as a sidebar of the conversation. But I could interview these experts on mindset or on business practices or all of the above, but it doesn't have to necessarily be specific to podcasting. And I bet you that podcasters would be really interested in hearing that, right?

26:45 Like if I had to sit down, which is actually something in the works. If I have a sit down and interview with say, Alex Sanfilippo from Pod Match, I want to sit down with him and not talk about podcasting. I want to talk to him about all of his little tiny habits that he's created to make him successful. He has so many different routines and like I just said, tiny habits that I find really fascinating, really interesting. I want to share with other podcasters what makes him tick and what makes him so successful. I bet you you all would be really interested in hearing that. To that point, my show is interview based. If I interview all these people each year and I never dug into who they are and what makes them tick and what makes them important, what makes them a great leader, how do they address challenges?

27:33 My I would lose my audience because they come to hear about the people and they come to learn about the people and there's a connection. I think that happens not just with me, but also with the with my guests because my audience is extremely active in reaching out to my guest and, you know, asking about their products, asking to learn more about them, asking to connect with them. And so I think if I just all I did was talk about to Victoria's point of chat. If all I did was talk about chemistry or office furniture, I would lose my audience because I'm not giving them a glimpse of the people because we want connection. We need connection. We want to know more about people. We do business with people. And I think that's just so important. So if all I did was talk about the latest and greatest task chair and you know, casters and pneumatic cylinders and height adjustable desk, I would lose my audience really quickly.

28:18 Such a great point said, you know, Jason Zircon just put out an episode of Let's Blow This up yesterday, recapping the Empowered podcasting conference and talking a little bit somewhere, some, somewhere along the lines of what you're saying where connection is so important the especially in person. But even still, if we can make that human connection on our podcast, great. But he was talking about how, you know, people came to this conference, the Empowered Podcasting Conference, probably a lot of them with the intention to learn, to get insights, to get ahead in their podcasting game. And they that's The funny thing is that they could probably, they can not probably they can go and find all of that information from those specific speakers all over the Internet. So why come to a conference then? It's because of the human connection. It's because you get to learn about the people that are giving you those insights at the conference. You get to know who they are.

29:19 You get to perhaps create friendships, collaborations, partnerships with them. Those connections are so important, and it translates on a podcast just the same. You got it. I believe that it is important that we get to know who the people are behind the insights, behind the information. Thank you for saying that, Sid Janae. You're up, my friend. Welcome back. What say you, Sir, on this topic of niching down or not? Good morning, good morning. Excellent topic. I love thinking about it because my podcast is not a niche podcast, right? It's sure it might circle around hacks and hobby that I started with, but it's something that's very general.

30:02 But I am looking at having those conversations with people and learning about those people. So when I think about niching down or why we should start with an issuing down podcast, I'll look to none other than Pat Flint, right? He started a blog which was all about leads and you know, learning how to take that exam. Now, that was not his intention, but for two years he just documented and whatever he learned so that he could successfully pass that leads exam, eventually sold that site. And then he built a site called Smart Passive Income, the focus being on passive income, and he grew that brand. Now he can literally talk about everything, but he still stays niched.

30:51 And the reason why you want a niche in the beginning or build a personal brand, as Amanda said, is because you're going to resonate with that audience so much more and build your expertise around that specific topic. Like if I were to ask any of you what's my niche or what's my expertise, would you know what it is? Me personally, well, I know you too well, Janae. Well, not maybe I don't, but I but I have a good good idea, I think yes. Lighting. It's lighting. So I should start a lighting podcast? I think that'd be that'd be a pretty good one. And to Nick's point in the chat, be sure you talk to the lights. Wait, say that against it.

31:37 I'm not filing because I wasn't paying attention to the chat. To Nick's point in the chat, you should talk to the lights because he said to me something in the chat relative to the fact that people would enjoy talking, listening to you talk to a person rather than listening to you talk to a standing desk. Yes, Yeah. Great. But from that perspective, I think niches help you get further, you know, further faster as opposed to being very eternal. That's why they So if you were talked, if you if you were to take a gun analogy, a rifle would go much farther with its bullet than a shotgun. That's it. Yeah.

32:19 Thank you, Janae. Let's go to Mike Short and see if Mike is now available. Mike, good morning. So I've got a couple of things to input. First, I want to push back a little bit on DRS focus on monetization. I think there's a lot of reasons people have podcasts that are successful podcasts. It could be that they're simply trying to develop a reputation as an expert in their field, or maybe it's a philanthropic or therapeutic type of thing, like a cancer survivor whose reason for having the podcast is to help other cancer people going through that, as opposed to the monetization piece. When it comes to talking about developing a niche, I think unless you're a personality, a known quantity, and you can become that through your podcast, but unless you're a Joe Rogan or an Amy Poehler or somebody like that, you have to have consistency in the podcast. What I mean by that is not frequency of episodes or anything like that, but it's got to be the topic or who you're talking to.

33:22 And I think the developing a specific kind of ideal avatar of your listener is the easiest way to do that. But people need to know when they listen to your podcast what to expect. And if you're bouncing all over the place with different topics and this, that and the other, yes, you'll you'll have some people that will listen, but they'll listen to the next episode. It's not what they expected and all of a sudden you've lost them. So I think having a niche or an ideal of who your ideal avatar of a podcast listener is is pretty crucial, at least until you become that known quantity that people follow you because it's you rather than listening to the podcast because they want something specific out of the podcast. Thank you, Mike, I'm with you there. I think it's in my opinion, at least to me, it's more important to know who my audience is or to have a target of who the type of audience I want.

34:19 I think to me that's more important than niching your topics down because, and I think Nick said that too earlier, once we know who our audience is, picking the right topics will come a lot more naturally at that point. And on the monetization point, I am with you guys that you can still be successful, you can still have a podcast and you can still niche or not niche and not choose to monetize your podcast. I have several clients that I consult, several clients that I produce their podcast for them and they don't monetize it.

35:02 Why one option is, is because they're just very passionate about the topic and they want to get that their, their words out there. And two, probably more relatable to some people, if they're doing this as a business, they're using their podcast as a marketing tool. And if you've been in business for any period of time, you know that marketing is about spending dollars. You're not monetizing the podcast because you are trying to market your business, market yourself. And so you were making a regular investment and these clients pay me. And like I said, the podcast itself isn't making money, but they're using it to make money in other ways, right to to to get people to come and buy their services, buy their products, etcetera.

35:51 I want to go to Phil better and Phil, maybe you can explain real quick the last name thing, because people, I'm, I'm sure people are curious. I know I was and you explained it to me at the conference this past weekend, and I'm going to ask you the poll question and then feel free to also add on to any share any of your other opinions. What do you think? What's more important, doing the reps first as a new podcaster or really nailing down that niche? In other words, is volume the better path to finding your voice as a new podcaster? You and I hate this. It depends, but good morning to everybody. I'll answer Mark's first question about my last name. Last name is better. It is the English translation of a French last name, Lemur, which means the best.

36:37 I just thought that was a little arrogant, so I dropped the the my last name then comes better. So I just put it together, feel better. So I hopefully you feel better hearing that explanation. When it comes to podcasters, it comes down to your goal. What is the goal of the podcast? What is the job of your podcast? Now, if we're looking at the people who are independent, where I came from, where they just have a passion for talking about a subject, let's say movies, horror books, all those things that really you can't make a business around because it's slightly out there. Those people, they're passionate, so they care about the topic they're talking about. So they already have that niche.

37:19 So they need the rats, they need to get into the idea of what a broadcast is. They need to understand the production because they don't know that it's a business. Podcasting itself is a business because you have a production, the pre, the post, the marketing, it's a full business. You're presenting a product to an audience that buys it with their time. So as business people, we understand that. We understand that we have a business, we put out a product and our podcast is our marketing tool. So either you're using your podcast to directly grow your business, like Mark said, where you don't care if money comes in, you're just using it to bring people from the outside into your business, into your ecosystem. So yes, you should theoretically have an overarching niche. Should you be niche down to, you know, like Sid said, talking about office furniture where you only talk about the latest casters and doodads that come with office furniture? Or are you going to be talking about the things that the people inside office furniture world like to talk about, like mindset or tactics or whatever it is that Sid talks about? So you do need that niche, but at the same time, you can go a bit above the niche and understand what the audience niche is.

38:35 What does the audience want to hear about from people in the industry that you work in? It depends on where you're coming from. If you're using it as a vehicle for your business, then you need to have less of a niche because you you're talking to the people inside that industry. If you're going to be a someone who doesn't use it for business and you just want to become famous, quote UN quote, like become the next Joe Rogan or, you know, the next shits and gigs or call her daddy, then yeah, you need to be niche. You need to be at least very specific on what you talk about so that you can you can grow that community of people who love movies, love office furniture, love talking about, you know, birds, if you will. But if you're using it for your business, you don't really need to be that niche.

39:25 I find. You just need to be what is the audience I'm going after and what do they want to hear about in my industry? That's my opinion. Thank you, Appreciate that and another that here that's an example of why I want Phil on the stage with us. I appreciate the answer. And by the way, Sid, I've been looking for to quote Phil, I've been looking for some doodads for my office furniture. So if do you know where I could get any good doodads? Oh and his phone just he just got a phone call as I asked. So what's a do? What's a doodad? That's what I want to know. I don't, I mean, I don't know what a doodad is for office rancher. Maybe just go and roam the halls of Staples or at home and see if you can't find some doodad.

40:11 I don't know, Marty. He got me there, man. Maybe that's a Canadian thing, Phil, Is that a Canadian? I'm just kidding, OK? I think it is. I think our our office furniture has a couple doodads and Knick knacks and a Paddy wack. Give a bug a bone. Exactly. They're. Very close to a Whatchamacallit. Yes, exactly right. Did I ever tell everyone? I'm sure I probably have. I went to college. One of my fraternity brothers, his mom invented the Whatchamacallit chocolate bar, and I just always find that very cool. By the way. Also, I think Phil may have changed somebody's mind. At least one or two people in the room, because the poll asked that question.

40:51 Reps versus Neeshing first, and we had the majority saying reps first, but we had a couple people saying niche and now all of a sudden it's changed to 100%. So Phil, I think you changed some opinions. Let's check in with my friend Rich Perry. Rich, I'm going to ask you a question along these lines here. What would you say to a podcaster if they asked? You can can quote, UN quote, be yourself, actually be a strategy or is that just luck? And as a guy who who's in the marketing side of things, I'm curious what you think about that question. So again, can you be quote UN quote, be yourself? Can that actually be a strategy or would it just end up being luck if he ended up hitting it big with that strategy? So the thing that I ruined the chat box before is that it sounds like a lot of the folks here, we're coming from that business arena.

41:49 Like we're using it, you know, for monetization or we're using it to like be an extension on marketing extension of our brands. You know, like you were saying, Mark, we may not be monetizing the podcast, but we're using it for dollars later, right? But we also have to remember that there are folks kind of like what Dr. was saying that are using this maybe just as a passion project. Back to what I was saying before, the thing that I had thrown in the chat box was this sounds very much like in broadcast television, we would call that like a lifestyle show where, you know, we had a lifestyle show on the TV station where I just came from. And they talked about anything that was going on in the community.

42:38 One day it might be, you know, this business owner that just opened and they're talking about the grand opening. You know, the next day maybe they have some high school kids talking about, you know, some play that they're doing or a fundraiser that's happening. And the next day they have, you know, a nonprofit talking about the 5K that they've got coming up and things like that. And it really was a anything goes kind of a show. It's a lifestyle show. And they had an audience. There might be some podcasters out there that come from that arena. They want to just have a talk show or they just want to have a, you know, whatever I feel like talking about today.

43:19 But then in that context, like kind of what Victoria was saying, that kind of is the brand or that kind of is the niche because people who are just interested in a lot of stuff might be coming to that show just to hear about what the host is talking about. They just want to be entertained for that 30 minutes or that 45 minutes, whatever. So I don't know. From a business standpoint, I think it makes sense to know what you're talking about and communicate that to the audience. If you're doing this is just an interest piece, maybe just have a little bit more flexibility. And I know I really didn't provide an answer, but I guess that is my answer is, I guess it's more on perspective and like you know, what you're trying to get out of the podcast to begin with.

44:12 I think what you're speaking to, it can be a formula, can be a successful formula with say and more of an entertainment style podcast, you know, a podcast that's maybe talking pop culture or you know, in my case, we had my old show. It was more of a buddy comedy slash pop culture podcast. So and, and that worked be just to the point. Like you said, sometimes we're using it using a podcast as an escape. We want to unwind from the usual day-to-day stuff that we're already thinking thinking about. And we do want some variety and that could work well for some shows and some audiences. It still can work with other types of genres besides entertainment.

44:55 I'm just using that specifically as one that I could see that working. And of course, I can hear other people arguing with me saying, no, you still need to be very specific on the things that you talk about. But you know, there could be a lot of podcasts we could point to that would disprove that, which actually, maybe this is our final question. And before I get to the final question, I just want to encourage everyone check out Let's Blow This Up, the podcast by Jason Zircon, part of this community, a strong part of the Empowered Podcasting Conference community. He did a full recap on the conference and more, even more talking about the power of community and how strong strongly that can help you along your journey. And I, I would just, I really encourage you if you were there, I think you're going to absolutely love it. If you weren't there, I think you're going to understand why we loved this conference so much and why we got so much out of it from so many different angles.

45:57 So check out Let's Blow This Up by Jason Circone. You can find that@bomtrackmedia.com. That's Jason's company, business, etcetera. Let's blow this up. OK, so curious if anyone wants to share an example of their favorite creator, their favorite podcaster or show that doesn't stick to one topic that doesn't have a super niched down show. I'm curious if anyone has an example yet. For example, Janae shared somewhat a little bit about Pat Flynn, Although I think I feel like Pat Flynn any of his podcasts, they are relatively niched down. But does anyone have a podcast they could share with us? Or did I ask the wrong question?

46:46 Go ahead, Janae. Yeah, there's one by Hassan Minhaj and it's it's called Hassan Minhaj Does Not Know. And he brings on different experts and talks about different topics. It's a really entertaining show for sure. And it's it's a new one that just came on. And because Hassan Minhaj, stand up comedian, he's done so much work, people are going to flock to him to go listen. Ron Burgundy, The Ron Burgundy podcast is another one that's on iHeartRadio again to build. It's literally talks about everything you can think about. But when you go there, you're going to get entertained and then you're going to learn something new.

47:27 And one episode that I just still remember is where he brought on a brain surgeon or brain scientist and, you know, talked about that. So I still go back to that episode and talk about it because I learned something very specific on that episode. So the two examples. All right. Thank you, Janae. Appreciate that. And Sid, I think you've got something. Go for it. Kind of like what Victoria said in the chat. Apparently I only listen to niche podcast because as I'm looking through my player, I'm like, well that's nice, that's nice, but one, but they're all different niches, right? So, but it may be topical, I don't know.

48:08 So, but one of the shows that I really, really enjoyed, it's a new show that I recently discovered. It's not a new show, but it's a show that I recently discovered. It's called Just a moment and seems Brent Menswear. He talks to people that have had a moment of transition in their life or a moment of an aha moment, something that really changed their life. And he does it in this narrative style for the 1st 10 minutes. Then he brings the guest on and he talks for another 10 minutes. And I guess that's niche. From the perspective of that, it's like, what's the turning point that happened in your life? That could be considered a niche or it could be considered a topic. But as relates to niche of the type of people that he's talking to, I don't think he actually has a niche because I think it's open enough that it talks to everybody, but it is talking about moments of turning point that really changed the trajectory of your life.

48:59 So I kind of think it is niche. I don't know. Kelly, Mark. I guess that is depending on the perspective. It sounds niche or like you said, maybe topical. Does anyone else have any thoughts on it, what they think about that Sid's example? OK, I was doing a quick search here on ChatGPT asking for shows that aren't particularly niche. And interestingly and maybe not surprisingly, we got a lot of the big name shows and I think actually Phil had shared a few of them as well, Call her Daddy being one of them, Joe Rogan Experience being another one of them. And. I would argue that. I would argue that Call Her Daddy is niche. I watched part of the documentary about her last night.

49:42 I watched the first half the documentary about her and I could argue that her show is niche. She talks to 20 to 30 year old women about things that happened in their life and she's talking candidly about that. That could be considered a niche. That's very true and it was even more niched when it originally started because it originally started as a dating focused show and now it includes more mental health, fame, pop culture interviews, etcetera. So she's will say she's loosened it up. I would agree with you that it it's still kind of considered niched down. So if anyone else doesn't have any examples, all right, let's go to Dr. because I want to talk to you guys real quick about your opinions about playing these clips and doing this more regularly. First of all, clearly we proved that we could have lots of discussion around playing just one clip. Dr. had an idea and I wanted her to take a minute before we wrap up to share about this idea for future segment moving forward. Go ahead, DRI.

50:47 Was thinking that Wednesday is Newsday and I thought we could dedicate a day to everyone. Not everyone but the team members recommending an episode that either they love or they hate something that has just stuck with them. It doesn't even have to be a current episode. Maybe it's an older episode that has just really stuck with you. And if you give us the clip or maybe the time stamps of from what to what and we can dedicate a day that we can play one or two or three depending on how the conversation goes. Also give us maybe four really deep questions and and Mark can choose which ones that he thinks is going to, you know, has the most legs. And I think this could I think this could be something, but we need some guidelines like what day are we going to do it? How long should the clips be?

51:48 Things like that. Yeah, I think Thursdays would be a great day to do that normally. I think that we could open that up to anyone in this community. Doesn't necessarily have to be the the leaders of the community. I think if, you know, maybe I'll create something where people could submit and send it in to us. But I like that idea. And I think the way we would do it is if you've got a show or particularly we're looking for specific episodes or clips within the episodes. So let's say this episode was the one you you picked just for discussion sake of the podcasting morning chat. You could submit that and maybe there's a specific section of that that you want to talk about. You just give us some rough time codes and we'll go ahead and edit and isolate so we can play the clip because I'm we're certainly not going to play a full episode of someone else's podcast here and talk about it. So we so you'll share some highlights with us that you think would be interesting and then we'll take it from there. Right.

52:44 And then you have to tell us why it is that this particular episode has stuck with you. What is it that has really resonated with you? And so that's what's going to get the conversation going. That sounds awesome. OK, so I think we're going to do this and I'm going to create some form and Dr. we can collaborate on the form. We'll we'll create a form for the community that they can fill out and we'll shoot to do this every Thursday. So next Thursday, everyone. Yep, Yep. And I'll go ahead and make sure we we've already been collecting some clips. So just in case it takes a minute for people to get catch on to this, we'll have stuff for Thursdays. What do we call it?

53:26 Sound clip Thursday or what do we call it? Sounds like a job for ChatGPT. We'll have to figure that out. Yeah. So to be continued and maybe even a little more discussion tomorrow about it. But tomorrow, yes, we are sharing our wins from the week. And I may hack. I actually do have a clip I want to play tomorrow and discuss before we dig into our wins from the week. It's a clip of Gary Vee talking about his prediction for the future of podcasting. And he has been known to predict a lot of other things, like social media, for example, when it wasn't really that popular yet. He had some predictions that have certainly come true since then, especially from the creator side of things. So we'll play it and then talk about that a little bit tomorrow too.

54:12 And then, of course, share our wins from this past weeks. So bring it tomorrow. And yes, DRI. Just wanted to make clear, it doesn't necessarily have to be an audio clip from an episode. It can be a clip from, you know, a YouTube. That's where we're getting our clips from a lot is YouTube and we're just playing the audio of the YouTube, so keep that in mind as well. Absolutely. Thank you for that clarification. Join us tomorrow, 7:00 AM Eastern live. And if you can't, then you can catch us just a couple hours later on your favorite podcast platform or at podpodpage.com/PMC. Until tomorrow. Make it a great day everybody.

54:53 Take care.