457. Are You Measuring Podcast Success All Wrong?

0:04 Good morning, podcasting Morning Chat. Today is Thursday, February 19th, 2026, and today is our mailbag edition. We pulled some real questions from Facebook and Reddit. We're going to have questions about promotion, spam, growth and motivation, guest pitches, and even some AI editing. So today's going to be super interactive, so if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, bottom left hand side of the screen and share it. However, Clubhouse lets you. And if you're watching us via podcast, YouTube, LinkedIn, etcetera, please share this episode with a fellow past podcaster. And now give me about 30 seconds and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here today.

1:20 Well, good morning again, podcasting. Morning, Chad. Thank you so much for being here. I'm your host for today, Ralph E Step Junior. And currently on stage with me, we've got producer Ashley Feller, Dr. Fay, Jonathan Howard, Sid Meadows, BC Babbles, and it looks like Mark has joined us. So we are ready to roll. And I just want to thank you for being here today. If you're seeing us live, if you want to see us live, you can go to our website thats@podcastingmorningchat.com/join us. We just set this up yesterday. We're ready to go with that. It's podcasting morning chat.com/join us. We're here live on YouTube, LinkedIn and Facebook. You can see me rocking the baseball cap today. Well, let's jump right into our first question and we're going to have our first question.

2:05 This one comes from Reddit and I want everybody to participate today, so just jump up here. I'm going to read the question, then we'll go from there. So here's a question we got on Reddit. Have you had a positive experience with a cold contact who offered to promote your podcast? We get bombarded with emails and messages every day. Are they best avoided or can anyone recommend a service they've experienced personally? So I thought that was a great question, Dr., If you want to jump in, go ahead. To begin with, let's explain why people are hearing your voice instead of Marks. Even though Mark is on stage with us right now, I know that he's kind of getting ready for his procedure.

2:47 He's getting his wisdom teeth taken out today and we just wanted to take one thing off of his plate that he had to worry about, which is hosting this show. That's why you hear Ralph's voice. Anyway, these emails, these spam emails are the bane of my existence. I have a client who gets them all the time. And when she gets them, she forwards them to me and says, are we doing this? Should we be doing this and that? And she's pointing out things in the in the e-mail and I have to e-mail her back every time and say, oh, I'm sorry, I thought that we already discussed this. We are actually doing everything that can be done for your podcast.

3:33 And the reason why you're getting these every day because she complained that she was getting them every day. The reason why you're getting these every day is because they're spam. So rest assured that my team is working for you very hard, very diligently. They're very, very capable. They know what they're doing. And I just have to stand firm in that. Not to be too woo woo, but standing firm in my truth, gosh darn it. Thank you, Dr. That's a very good point. Yeah, I get them as well. Has anybody ever actually used one of those services? That's another thing we can talk about, but I know some other people had flashed their interest in talking. So go ahead and jump up there, if you will. I will jump in and say, much like Dr. What I would recommend for anybody that's looking to promote their podcast is to find somebody that they've worked with that they're aware of, that a friend can recommend that does a larger kind of promotional thing with on social media, wherever they want to be promoted. Like if they want to do ads, find somebody who's really good at ads.

4:36 But a lot of those spam emails and a lot of those concepts of what they're doing to promote shows aren't complete. They don't really help you get where you want to go with these things. So really just for finding somebody who does marketing to help you promote your show because you really need a full complement of services doing that sort of thing. BC go ahead, I said you had a comment. I think every single time I get one of those requests, usually through LinkedIn and sometimes through Instagram, I look at the person or the account I should say that sent the request and they always have like 0 connections. They have zero network and I'm like there's no way I'm talking to this person. I don't know about everyone else, but every single one, every single solicitation I get, it does not look like a real person. So I'm just never even responding to those anymore. Very good point.

5:25 Anybody else wanted to have an idea? Here, I'll jump in. Good morning everybody. I get most of these via e-mail to go into my spam box and I just delete them. I don't have the bandwidth for that, right? I'm kind of like Dr. But the ones I get on LinkedIn to BCS point, I don't even get a message from them. I just get a connection request. And I bet I have 20 podcast promoter connection requests in my LinkedIn and I just ignore them. Like I'm just not because I know immediately when I accept them I'm going to start getting spam about it. So I think the best path is just to ignore them. But I had a follow up question for Jonathan if I could for a second. Sure. And I don't want to take us down a rabbit hole and take us away from the mailbag. But Jonathan, you're talking about marketing and finding someone that's an expert in marketing or that you know, my question is how much marketing is too much of your podcast? I think you need to be present on social. You need to be putting out whatever platforms you're active on.

6:22 I have an Instagram and I promote some of my podcasts on LinkedIn and stuff like that. It depends honestly, and I think it depends for everybody. How what do you want to reach? Are your people on social media or are you looking for it? Like in your case, are your people that are listening to your podcast on social media or do you have another Ave. that's going to be better to reach them? When it comes to social media, it depends on if your people are there and if you're reaching them, and what you want to get out of your show each week or whenever you're publishing it. So I was kind of going to kind of further breakdown what Jonathan was saying about audience. Like for instance, if you have like a lifestyle podcast, you know, you're probably going to aim to be on Instagram, TikTok a lot. Or if you have a more business focused podcast, you might just be on LinkedIn.

7:08 So just further expanding on that. It really depends on the topic, your format, you know, whether or not you're pushing weekly, bi weekly, monthly. All those things are going to dictate what is your base level for social media versus what may or may not be considered too much. Because if you're doing a fair frequency, you can probably milk a single episode for quite a bit of content. I think that's a really good point. I would just say also what platform you actually like to create on is another thing that comes into play because those are the ones that you're going to actually enjoy creating content and promote. I think it's a really good point. And I, I think, you know, big take away here is just be careful because I've seen these things where people say, oh, I'm going to guarantee a certain number downloads.

7:53 I'm going to guarantee you're going to get, you know, these things. So what are some red flags that people should be watching out for? Does anyone want to comment on some red flag things they we should be careful of? Yeah, if they make promises, yeah. I, I tend to agree with you there, Jonathan. I think that's 100% accurate. We hear people say, well, I'm going to guarantee a certain number of downloads as soon as I hear that you got to be suspicious. Well, let's move on to our second question, if everybody's cool with that one. This is another one that comes from Reddit. And I, when I read this question, I was like, man, this is perfect. And it says, at what point did podcasting start to feel worth it for you? Was it downloads? Was it messages from listeners or did it just really click and you just kept going anyway?

8:33 And generally interested in how others measure progress. So I thought that was a really great question. Somebody was really putting their heart out there asking that question, How do we measure progress without burning out? You know, what counts is worth it. Does anybody want to comment on that? You know what has been worth it for you? What counts as progress free? Go ahead, Ashley. I would say when it became my new career, because before I became a podcast producer, I was a professional musician. I've been a teacher, I've worked in mental health facilities. I've had many different careers. And I did my own podcast for a couple of years. And then after a couple of years in, I started getting, you know, emails and messages from people saying, hey, you do a really great job on your own podcast.

9:19 Have you ever considered doing that for other people? And it wasn't too long after that I got my first client and continued to do so. So the career shift is when it became worth it. Go ahead DRSC, you had a comment to make. I think it is a multitude of things. Downloads is just a little part of it, but engagement probably my client roster. So it's everything all mixed up into one, but especially engagement has to go at the top of my list I think. And I think that's brilliant. I mean, I think that's the whole point. I mean, you can get stuck on downloads and make yourself really feel bad about yourself, but you can have a a small number of downloads and really have a significantly engaging program.

10:02 BCI. See, you wanted to comment and then we'll go to Jonathan Sid. It's when your capacity for have a building that can be focused toward building something new and exciting for people or community lines up with your capacity to be consistent. We I think we talked a lot of time and podcasting consistency amongst the many elements that can create something new and successful is one of the biggest elements. So I think when those particular things lined up like for me building up my sub stack and how consistent I did with that sense before the Thanksgiving holiday and I'm seeing for from that Ave. alone because of the consistency, see more engagement that I've seen in other platforms where I've not been able to maintain similar consistency is just to me is is great.

10:47 So I I realized that those things like lining up really showcase a great platform for success and and development. For me, it's the moment that somebody that I don't have direct contact with thanks me for something that they got out of the podcast. It's that simple. Yeah, I do agree with what everybody's saying, especially what Jonathan just said. But for me, the moment was in 2021. I was at a big furniture event and I got stopped in the hallway three times within about 10 minutes. People recognizing me and asking me if I was Sid and blah, blah, blah and thanking me for the show. It just like was a very humbling experience to be recognized like that.

11:29 And it was one of those that like, wow, this really is working. This is really has impact and people really listening. And so for me, that was the moment when I got stopped in a hallway by random strangers. Yeah, that's beautiful. I see Nikki's join us on stage. Nikki, did you want to comment? As a a fairly new podcaster, I've been doing it for four months. I definitely echo everything that everyone said. I feel the exact same way. I did receive a message from someone the other day. He came on my show and and he said he goes. I just wanted to take a moment to say thank you for everything. Thank you for having me on the Gentle Year. You made me feel completely at ease and your questions showed me that you genuinely care about the families listening. That's not something that every host brings to the table and I noticed it from our very first conversation, the pre interview. You have a real gift for creating space where people can be honest and I'm grateful I got to be a part of it. I also want to thank you for all the hard work you've been putting into my project.

12:22 So this relationship that we had, it just kind of happened organically and we're working on other things outside of the project. And he goes and you didn't have to go above and beyond the way you have it and it hasn't gone unnoticed. Your time, effort, and your willingness to dig in and help it all means more to me that I can put in that I can properly put into words. And I don't take any of that for granted. I left you a 5 star review because I meant every word of it. So those kinds of things and my Facebook community, all the different things, it definitely keeps me going because my schedule is very busy and sometimes I just don't. I feel like I don't have the energy. But when I look at things like that, it definitely keeps me pushing a lot. I want to ask what did you do to go above and beyond? So the guy who came on my podcast, he has dyslexia and he has a really hard time, but he knows how to build programs and teach people how to teach others who have dyslexia how to read really well, which is typically their biggest challenge.

13:19 I'm a teacher, so I work with kids all the time, and I've got some neurodivergent learners and things of that nature. And so I'm kind of helping him understand how to present this information from a teacher's perspective so that he can get his programs into schools and things like that. That's really great. OK, well let's move on to our third question for today. This one is also from Reddit and this message is guest emailing me to be on the podcast. I'm getting emails from agents wanting to introduce people to come to or be in my podcast. This the first time I'm getting them, which is nice, but some are definitely not guest for my target audience. It's nice to know that my podcast is coming up on whatever database they're getting it from, but I really want to know what should I do about this?

14:03 And I, I'll be honest with you, I, when I, when I was looking at looking at this question, I went back and looked at my e-mail. I'll probably get about seven or eight of these a day. And The funny thing is, I don't have guests on my show. So this was an interesting situation. Does anybody else want to comment on that and give the some guidance here? For quick revocation, are these agents who represent a singular person trying to get their personal exposure by getting them onto a podcast? Or is this someone offering like a find you guests kind of service? I don't know the answer to that because it doesn't say that, but I'm going to make an assumption because, you know, assumptions are always good to do, right? We'll make an assumption that that is an agent trying to get a singular guest. I'm, I'm going to speak from personal experience, like I've gotten a bunch of those lately where it'll be a certain person. You should really have this person on your show. This person is XY and Z.

14:52 And I, I think I understand the other side of that. And that's because these folks are paying these agents to go get them booked on shows. Does that help you with that? Yeah, absolutely. And I would say based on that, I would say for this person, you know, if it's really should be on the agent to do plenty of research on who you are and to properly determine if their person will match up to your audience. And granted, assuming that you've built your platforms up to properly reflect your voice, your focus, your format, so that there should be no question about that. I would just say anytime those agents reach out and you, that person that they're trying to Rep is not a great fit. Let them know, hey, I appreciate it. This doesn't seem like the best fit. I wish you luck in finding some other platform or podcast for this person, but this won't be it for me basically. How about Ashley?

15:41 Ashley, did you want to make a comment? I was going to say the same thing as BC and I also that this kind of reminds me of the first question we have where there's there's folks out there, you know, legit some legit some not who just for lack of a better word, just send out mass emails to as many people they find out have a podcast as well. And I think Sid's got something to say. Yeah, I'm happy to jump in. Thank you, Ashley. I get these a lot and most of them I don't do anything with, but occasionally I always read them because you never know if the guest is going to be somebody for me that will fit my show because I do have an interview show or at least two segments a month that are interviews. And so I do read them and I've been fortunate enough to, I think get 3 or 4 guests from these PR consultants.

16:27 That's what they're being paid to do, is to get this person on the appropriate shows. And so I have two coming up that are and one last year and then one coming up in a couple of weeks that is from the same PR agency out of London that knows my show and has brought me a couple of people. So I do read them. I look, if the person is, you know, suitable for my show, if they're within our industry or can share something that's going to impact, if I am interested, I schedule a pre call with them and then decide if I think they're going to be a good guest or not. I do pay attention to them and I've had limited success with them. Yeah. Dr. Do you have a question for me? I think we have to make a comparison between all of these things that are popping up like want to guest, meet a guest or want to get to be a guest. I mean, these Facebook groups, you can easily go on these Facebook groups.

17:20 And if you're someone who's looking to be on a podcast, then these Facebook groups are amazing. And I don't know what the professional PR person who is you're paying to get on to podcasts and these groups on Facebook, what the big difference is, but except for the cost, of course. I know one of these PR people that makes 6 figures in placing people on podcasts. It's amazing. If you can, you can get it that way, but there's less expensive ways to get on podcasts.

18:01 Just don't forget about Pod match either. Pod match is a great tool. I do not subscribe. To pod match, Yeah, pod match it. Is a great tool, right? But for me, my show is so niche that I am looking for very particular type of people that work within the industry. And it's very rare that I get PR firms out reaching to me that are in the industry. So that's for me what I'm always looking for is it a fit. And I've been fortunate enough to get 3 or 4 of them that do, which is great. But I mean these guys get paid by the guest to help promote their brand and to help expand their reach, get them on shows and other things. This is some of this leads to speaking and books and all kinds of other things. So it's all tied in and it, it, I mean, I've talked to several of these people and they're really, you know, the ones I've talked to have been really nice and do great work. And so I think you just have to pay attention to, you know, investigate the firm that's reaching us. Are they a real firm?

18:57 I mean, I always go to their website to look, even before I remove it from my spam. I investigate the person. I go to their LinkedIn profile, I go to their Instagram if they have one. And so I do my homework before I ever respond. And then when I respond, I say, Hey, I think that and I only respond to the ones that are, I believe a match. And so that's when I just say I think this is a potentially good match. Let's set up a call. Here's a link, set up a call. However, I'm going to just add to this. I am evaluating charging these people a fee, a production fee to be on my show. I haven't gotten there yet, but I am evaluating that because it is quite a bit of work to bring a guest on, especially one that you don't go and find yourself.

19:37 You might spend a lot of time finding guests and the right guests for my show, so I'm currently evaluating whether or not I'm going to charge the firms for people to be a guest. Let's unpack that just for a second, OK? Psychiatrist Dr. has come out. And I know that there's someone that Mark has interviewed that practices this way. I forgot who it was. It wasn't Heather Purse it. Was a lady. I remember the conversation, but I don't remember her name either. And I still have. I'm still reluctant to do this. I feel like it is very reciprocity kind of thing that you know your guest is coming on and giving value to your listeners and in return you're giving them a platform to promote themselves. It's kind of an even exchange and I just, I just do not feel good about charging people to be on a show. Go ahead BC, I see you had a comment. Not to interrupt you Dr., but I see BC had a comment and Jonathan had a comment as well.

20:44 Yeah, DRI feel the same way for sure. There's a great inherent reciprocity. You know, you're getting a potentially cool person who has a solid following onto your show, which cross promotes that and you're providing them a free promotion and that provides that cross promotion there. Now I will say regarding charging people, you know, I will collab with them on social media. I will tag them with the few reels that I make per episode to push the episode. But I do like to say in the discovery call that I have before the actual recording session. If you at any point would like to Commission me to create more reels for your own use your own self promotion in the future. Saying that hey, further establish your thought leadership with these interview clips you did.

21:28 Then I got a rate sheets, I'll send it to you. You can Commission me and then that's where any kind of charger comes in. But yeah, I'm, I'm with Dr. on the whole and here in reciprocity part of just being on the show, there's cross promotion there inherently. So I take that. Yeah, reciprocity is good. But sometimes what you offer in your show, based on what you put together, your audience, how much time it takes for you to do this, it it's worth payment. And if people are willing to pay, I don't see anything wrong with it. And I understand what you guys are saying, but sometimes it's not an equal balance there. Maybe for some people it it's worth it to have a payment option because your value is what you you know what you determine it to be, not what somebody else determines it to be.

22:19 Yeah, I agree. And Janae put in the comments that I've charged a few times to guests on my show. So I it's not it's not an unheard of thing. I know I'm on Pod match and one of the things that Podmatch is doing now, which I kind of appreciate is they actually have a field on there that says, hey, you, we are charging a fee to guest on the show. And I don't like that. Now the other day I had one where a situation was that wasn't let, wasn't said like that. And then the person sent me, hey, I'd really like to have you on my show. And then they sent me a Google document. And all the way at the bottom of the Google document is how would you like to pay for your guest on my show? And he had three or four different sponsorship opportunities. And I sort of reached out back to him.

23:00 I said, wait a second guy. I said, you said you don't charge for your show. He goes, why don't charge? That's that's optional. I said, well, it sure doesn't feel optional. And I just want to bring up something that Tim put in the comments too. When we're talking about these guest emails. If it starts off with, I hope this message finds you well or one of those AI things, I'll take, I just zone it out. So if that's one of the things that that other people are feeling with at the same time. But I understand what everybody's saying. I mean, there is, I agree with Sid, there's a cost to this, but I agree with DR2. There's this balance of reciprocity. It's a tough call. It really is a tough call. Does anybody else want to comment? Yeah, I want to jump in. Janae's coming up. He can talk about this too, but I want you to think about something else. So somebody's coming onto your show. They're they're coming up.

23:44 They're looking to be on shows for a reason, and a lot of times it's maybe to sell something. And when you think about the power of your audience and your audience taking action. If I have somebody, let's just say I have a consultant come on my show and I'll use the Yard example, I have Yard come on my show to talk about the power of podcasting and how it can help grow your brand, which can result in growing your revenue and selling more furniture. That's a very viable conversation for me to have with my audience is they look to expand their presence and to get more sales. Dr. gets a couple of sales and she's off to the races. What did Sid get? I mean, I didn't really get anything out of it other than I got a guess out of it, a really good guess. But my audience went and engaged with Dr. and hired Dr. or maybe bought a product that somebody was selling or signed up to be a dealer for that product, right?

24:36 And so the values, not just in being on my show, the values in my audience taking action and signing up. So you got something out of it. I believe I should also get something out of it. Producing a podcast is not inexpensive. It costs quite a bit of money and we put a lot of work into it. So don't devalue. I'm not saying I'm doing it, but what I am saying is don't devalue yourself or your ecosystem of your people, the followers, in their ability to take action and to help that person succeed financially. That's where you can set up, you know, to get a little cha ching on the side when they click on the link. You know, as an affiliate, you can set up an affiliate program before they they come on your on your show and talk about you can you're not wrong. You're not wrong, but I'm not interested in a $25 payment because somebody bought your service. I'm not interested in that so.

25:29 But you also asked, what do you get? You get the reputation of, you know, Sid's show is amazing. Do you know who we had on the on the show the other day? That's what you get also. You're not wrong at all, Doctor DRI. Want to go to Janae here in a second, but I want to read something that Dave put in the comments, which I think we really should look at here. And it says some of my guests were shocked at the podcaster wasn't paid by their PR company. The guests thought their fee included money to the show as well. And I think that's an interesting point as well. So Dave, thanks for sharing that. But Janae, go ahead. You wanted to make a comment. This is an excellent topic. And if you think about it, the guest, there's a ratio of guest to host.

26:10 And I don't know if you've seen the reports that Pod Met puts out this ratio was one host, 25 guests want to be on A1 host show. So look at that ratio, right? And then within six months that number change from 1:00 to 46. I don't know what that number is now, which means that there are a lot more guests out there than there are hosts. Because as to point to said, it does take a lot of work to put this production into play and push this episodes out. So if you think about it, you're not charging them to do the production work. That's that's something that we're already going to do. The value that we bring is the exposure to their basically exposure to our audience.

26:56 Why does John Lee Dumas charge $3500 for you to go and be a guest on this show? Because he has a guarantee of a 1,000,000 downloads. But even then, there has been reports where it doesn't really bode that well for the guest. Unless if you go to a very niche podcast, which is what Sid provides, it's a very niche podcast, you're going to find exactly who you're going to serve. And that's where it makes point to actually charge and have a fee because you're not charging for the production work. That's something nobody's going to pay for. But what you say is, hey, I'm charging you to be a guest on the show so you have access to my audience of 200 that are absolutely going to purchase from you at a 97% rate versus if you were to go on a very massive podcast and were to expect, you know, maybe 2-3 sales. So that's my take on why it just makes so much sense. Thanks.

27:53 And Janae, I think that's a brilliant point is you're you're offering exposure to your audience and I think there's a ton of value in that, Janae. So thank you for sharing. I have a question for you, Janae. So you said you've done this. Was it a difficult decision for you to make? And how did you figure out what you were going to charge for that, if you don't mind answering that question? Absolutely. I, I experimented different price points and some people were coming just for the exposure and they're like, hey, I'm happy to pay $100. But then when I raise the price to $1500, that was strategically for me is I don't want, I didn't want anybody to just come on and put good time on the show. So that's something that didn't bode well yet, right?

28:34 It's nobody's going to pay 1500 bucks yet, but I'm going to make a point in the future to say, OK, if you're already paying an agency for you to find hosts for to be guests on, then I'm sure you can also pay to be a guest on that show. Again, experiment is ongoing. Thank you. So how did you arrive at 1500? Do you mind me asking that question, Janine? I'm just interested in like, was that like a thought? Because I'm a money guy, right? So I'm thinking about was there a cost idea here? Was there a time element to that? What was it that you landed on to get to that number? And maybe just arbitrary, but what was your? Thought, well, initially it was arbitrary, but then when I looked at all of the things that I am putting together and pushing out for them, 10 reels, podcast episode on, on the, on the different social media platforms, of course.

29:29 But then there's also on YouTube. Then there's a book chapter, there's an article on the blog post, there's an article on LinkedIn. There's so many different things that they get out of that one interaction with me. And that's why like, hey, this makes sense to charge 1500 bucks for less. I wanted to just see, hey, these are some top notch people come in, they claiming to make 7 million figure businesses. Like OK, do you have the money to pay to come talk about it? Let's take a look. So that's been an experiment. And Janae, I think that's brilliant. And, and I think we need to lean into what Janae just said because what he's offering in my view is a marketing platform. He's talking about he's going to give you this, he's going to give you that. It's not just, hey, come on my show and if anybody tunes in and listen to it's great.

30:14 He is absolutely actually, if you could put a poll out there, if have other people charged to for, you know, to have somebody on the show. But what I was saying is Janae's giving them a package and I think this is a great idea. If you can build a package around their appearance, I think that is a beautiful thing to do, Janae. So I I absolutely salute you because I think you're doing more than just, hey, come on my show, you're showing them, here's a package of what you're going to get here are the different components because you realize, like I do Janae, that just their appearance on the show isn't going to be enough. It's the other pieces to that that really building a. Thing that Janae is talking about, which is underlining of what I was talking about as well, is what they're paying for is access. Access to your community and what you do to promote, whether it's an article on LinkedIn, an article on your website, social media posts, right?

31:03 They're paying for access to your community. I have not done this yet. I only said I'm thinking about it. But the more I think about it, the more viable it sounds to me for the few guests I get a year. And when I add up the production costs and my time and then the social media marketing costs and things of that nature to put this stuff out, there's an expense to this. And you know, when somebody's trying to be on your show, why shouldn't you receive compensation or offset the expenses for that? That's really where my thought process is now. I'll let you know if I decide to do it, but that's where my thought process is right now. So could you maybe present it to the the potential guest as a choice? Well, you know, if you just want to come on the show, that's great.

31:48 We'll do a little interview with you. We'll promote what you have. But if you want like the full package, that's when I think I could probably introduce maybe you know that there's there'd be a price to that, but at least you're giving them the choice. Yeah, I think that's a fairpoint to Dr. and it sounds like maybe we've we've landed the plane here for cities. Got a whole lot of things to think about today. But go ahead BC I know you had a comment you want to make. I wonder if we can clarify something real quick regarding kind of the meantime. So assuming that we take on this particular approach to our podcasts and if it does kind of out of the nature of charging someone to give them access to our audience, it does kind of lower the frequency of people who may come along who are willing to engage that way. Do we in the meantime build our brand as a solo show whereas predominantly the content is we are the solo host of the show, we are the thought leadership.

32:45 We are the ones building this machine that has this audience, that has these numbers of engagement that sell itself to potential paid guests in the meantime. And then being the guest is kind of having a guest on the show when it does happen, is kind of the unique moment for the show or the special moment for the show. I agree BC I think that was well said and I just want to put in here what Ashley said in the comments. A lot of people I interview are barely hanging by a thread. I get that too. I mean that's a whole another thing. And I think it comes down to what I talk about on the show all the time is what is your purpose of your show? What is your why? If your why is your trying to make money with this and I think this is a viable option, but I want to go ahead and get to our last question because Dr. and I talked about this beforehand and she's like, I hope we get to this question.

33:29 So here's our next question and this one comes from Reddit as well. And this person writes found out my podcast editing service was using AI to cut my episodes should I care? So I've been using this podcast editing service for three months and the edits have been fine. Yesterday I found out by accident that they're using AI tools to do the initial cuts in noise removal. Then a human does the final Polish. On one hand, the final product sounds good and they're fast. On the other hand, I feel kind of weird about it, like I thought I was paying for human editing. Am I being unreasonable? Does it matter how they edit as long as the result is good? And I thought that was a really good question. And I see Ashley, you want to go? Go ahead.

34:13 I would say that as long as the results are good, it shouldn't matter, and also that be aware that almost every editing tool that is in existence now has some kind of editing feature on it, and in the long run it can really save you time. I'm not saying let AI edit your entire podcast, but if there are parts of it that can speed up the process and you get a good result from it, by all means. Because in the long run, to do these processes manually is going to end up costing you more. I think that's a very good point, Ashley. And and that's the thing, like I, I still think there's value in a human editing it.

34:56 But I think what I hear you saying, and I'm going to go to Jonathan and Dr. in a second, but I what I think I hear you saying, Ashley, is let them do some of the the routine stuff so that you don't have to spend so much time on the simple stuff. Is that what you're saying, Ashley? Yeah, like if there is something like for example, you use AI to format your show notes in a particular way. Like for example, you need brackets put around your time codes. That takes at least 4 or 5 minutes to do it manually. But if you tell AI to, hey, I want you to format my time codes with brackets around them and I want them to look like this, that really could shave some time off. Also, you know those of you who used a script, I don't use it to to remove all the uhs and UMS but I use it to show me where they are because if I were to look for each one manually, that would take a lot more time for sure. Go ahead Jonathan, I see one to make a comment. Yeah.

35:51 So I would, I would, you know, check what you're being charged and compare it with what some of the AI tools might be. Because if you it's an exorbitant amount and they're not doing much more than just the clean up, then maybe you take on your editing yourself because AI can handle a lot of it. But if it's a reasonable amount, everybody's using AI to edit and there's benefits to it. It is quicker and in a lot of ways it can be a cleaner edit when the AI does it then if you're doing it. But yeah, if you're happy with it and they're charging you a reasonable amount then just keep paying it. I agree with you and Dave. Put this in the comment. There's a difference between an editor person and an editing tool. A hammer, a hammer's a tool, but a hammer on its own could never build a house.

36:34 And Dave, I think that's brilliant observation there. And I apologize the people flashing got ahead of me. So if you'd flash again or jump up here, if you've got a comment about this, just go ahead and jump, right? In I'm going to jump in. This is such a such a fertile ground here of a subject someone said to me one time because I had asked them should I feel guilty about using AI and they said no. If you are ever asked about this by a client, just stand up and say absolutely I'm using AI and thank God I am or else I would have to probably charge you a lot more. You know, a lot of people don't realize that there is a skill that you have to acquire in using AI. You don't just put a one sentence prompt in the field and then copy paste the results.

37:26 That is not using AI correctly. You know, you go back and forth, you eliminate, you add here, you kind of Frankenstein it together, maybe this sentence up here and part of that sentence down there and you put those together so that it is a collaboration between you and AI. And it takes time and effort and in my case, money to learn how to use AI correctly. And so yeah, I am proud to say that I absolutely use AI and, and I know that I am using it the right way. Oh, look who wants to speak.

38:09 Go ahead, Mark. I love your point, Dr., and I think you make a really good point, especially, you know, just, yeah, be confident about it as an editor if, if you're asked and when you said, you know, it's not as easy as just one prompt. Yes, that's true. But I just wanted to remind people that these AI agents exist now. And although I haven't seen any use cases where you can go and tell Open Claw to go edit a podcast, I don't know if it's quite there yet, but don't be surprised if you see that sometime this year or maybe early next year. I think it's coming. I think that's a. Brilliant point, Mark, because I'm just thinking about, we use the script in my production thing and at BC. I haven't forgot about you and Janae, but we use the script and it actually has the ability to do some of that. Right now it says go ahead and remove retakes, go ahead and do this and do that.

38:58 So I hear what Dr. saying in that, yeah, you got to have some experience in this. But at the same time, these tools are presenting something that just cuts it like a big old knife and does what it wants to do. So we're kind of already there, to be honest. I am constantly trying to not stay ahead of AI because I know it's going to be a losing battle eventually, but it is. It has forced me to up my game in my business. For instance, I now do press releases. I now have a social media person, I have someone who can do a website on my team. I I have all of these things. So editing is not just, it's not just a 1 trick pony with me.

39:40 AI is definitely a viable tool. And if someone, you know, my clients are kind of divided into two different groups. One is, you know, I have the time to learn this stuff, I just don't want to learn it. I just don't. You do it, you do it. That's one client. And then another client is I just have no time. I have no time to learn any of this. So you do it. Considering that those are my two types of clients, I think I'm OK. And DRI think what you're really saying, and I don't want to speak for you, but you've pivoted in your business. That is what you're saying is you're realizing that some of the the routine editing stuff isn't isn't driving it anymore and you're saying I'm going to offer this and I'm going to offer that I'm going to offer this because you're offering more services. Is that correct?

40:26 Dr. That's correct, absolutely. Go ahead, BCI, saw you wanted to make a comment. Yeah, I think the the the main take away here is that so long as the human element is still involved in the process, AI is not used as the singular function through which all the editing is done. You should be in the clear. I use Riverside for a lot of production use and even though it's it's elevated pretty pretty far and its ability to identify good clips or hooks or segments and whatnot. More often than not, I think every second or third clip or something that it makes, I still have to go in because it has a really awkward start or stopping moment that I need to shift one way or another.

41:08 Otherwise it just has a weird flow if I take it as is. So as long as you're making sure someone's eyes or ears are still a a person's human beings eyes and ears are still being used to review and double check the work that AI has put the foundation on. You should be in the clear. And again, if you not everyone comes from a broadcasting background and not everyone goes into podcasting knowing how to work the hard way, like using Premiere Pro or cap cut to do these huge long production sessions and have control over every bit in piece that goes into a podcast, post production elements. So and if, especially if you're an entrepreneur building a business, you need to utilize some kind of tool to consolidate the process, optimize your time, make sure that there's content available within a reasonable time frame to make sure that your promotion is pretty consistent. So just keep put your eyes on it just to make sure that you're involved and on some level to make sure that some third party force is not the end all be all for your stuff. Janae, I want to go to you and then I want to go to sit. Go ahead, Janae.

42:12 You know, I wanted to talk back about the using AI properly and knowing how to prompt it well. And what's funny is that growing up text messaging or using AM or Facebook chat or all that's new stuff, but it wants to mention AIM we all at least I grew up on texting people more than anything else. So texting and talking with AI has been like second nature. I could just talk about literally anything. And that's something that we all need to get better at. But to point what Mark was making with Open Claw and all of these things that are coming up, these agents are going to be able to do so much more faster. And if you are just following the news at all, literally every two to three weeks there's a new model everyone you try to up, you know, one up being the other one. Just today, Grok 4.2 just dropped, which is the largest model that's out there.

43:08 Being able to run 16 concurrent agents at the same time, it's kind of insane what's possible. So we're not too far away from from from that at all. So these conversation that we're having here in person, I think they're going to have a lot more value over AI produced or edited content in the future. 100% Janae, go ahead Sid. And then I don't know if Mark wanted to jump in, but go ahead, Sid, you had flashed. As one of the only people on this stage that is not an editor and that pays to have his show edited, I'm just going to say very clearly I don't care that they're using AI. Good for them for figuring out how to improve their processes, how to improve their flow, how to improve their efficiency.

43:53 I could careless what tools they're using. What I care about is the end product. How does the end product sound? Did the show turn out great? Was it done on time so that we can get all of our other stuff done? That's what I care about and I don't. I can bet you that none of you care or anybody listening care about what AI tools somebody is using to do their job more efficiently, whatever their job is. So at the end of the day, I'm getting a fair rate. I'm getting a great quality end product that I'm really proud of. And if she uses 10 AI tools, one AI tool or no AI tools, I don't care. What I care about is the output that I'm getting all. Right. So let me ask you a follow up question. Are you assuming that a human being is listening to that at some level? Or are you totally cool if somebody just uses AI bots to handle the?

44:41 Whole thing, I don't think that AI bot can handle the whole thing right now, but I know that she's involved in it. I know that she's listening to it. I know because she asked me questions about things and she we talk about different things. So I know that she's involved in it and I know that she's listening to it. And that also has to do with I trust her. Like she's been with me since episode 35 and I'm on episode 175. I trust her. So if she wants to use a new AI tool in her process, then let her use a new AI tool on her process. But AI experts will tell you, and I've talked to enough of them on my show recently, that there needs to always be a human in the middle. And I trust that there is a human in the middle of my process because I know there is because we're talking, she and I are talking about it.

45:22 Mark, you had Mark. I see you want to make a comment. I was just going to say Sid, but the question it it was are you comfortable with it? Let's say this editor of yours goes away and you have to hire a new one. And are you OK with it if they are using solely AI? Let's hypothetically. That's a really great question that I don't know that I have the answer to using 100% but but but OK, I'm not going to do it. I don't have the time to do it. I don't have the bandwidth to do it. So if I pay somebody to edit my show and they're using all AI and the the price that I'm paying reflects that there's no human in the middle, then probably I get I probably say I don't care, right?

46:04 Because what I know is I don't have the time or the bandwidth to do it to get it ready and put it out there because he's got to go so many different places. There's so many human steps in the process and putting it on bus route and then putting it on YouTube and doing this and doing that. I mean, she actually, my editor actually writes my show notes. She does not use Buzz Sprout show notes. And I've asked her why not like, why haven't you used the Buzz Sprout show notes? Because it makes it easier for you. And her point, her comment back to me is I love writing. I love listening to the show and I love doing that part. So I'm not going to let AI do it. So I don't know that I'm answering your question mark, but you know, I mean, if I felt like I was getting a fair price for it.

46:44 But what I do know is Sid is not going to edit and produce his own show. I do not have the time for that. No, and I think Sid, I think that's brilliant because you realize you can pay with your money or you can pay with your time and you're paying with your money. I think we have to accept that this is a reality. I know Mark put some other things in there as well that there are things that are going to be doing. It's not the kind of they just they work on the sideline. So I, I think it was really a valuable discussion. I think at the end of the discussion, honestly, I think there's an open debate because I understand what Sid's saying. It's like, hey, I want the house built. I don't really care how you build it as long as it's sound and long as it's it does what it does at the end of the day. But I guess my only question, and we can kind of leave it with this question here at the end, is if these the government and the states really start pressing this that you have to disclose AI, does that become an issue in the editing process?

47:32 So if you think you're paying an editing company to do all your stuff with a person, are we going to have an issue that you have to disclose that it was edited with AI or the show notes are written with AII know we've talked about that a little bit on the show. Does anybody have any comments as it relates? We had a news story yesterday that we never got to, and it was about Spotify. Over the past handful of months, let's say 2-3 months, they've reported that all of their coders no longer code. Their coders now essentially babysit AI agents that are coding for them. I feel like there's something to that when you think about that scenario and whatever your question was, I think that can that can apply.

48:19 What was your question, Ralph again? No, what I was saying is a lot of government and states are saying if you have you have content you've got to disclose. There's AI being used in that, So what does that mean? Does that mean an AI voice? Does that mean an AI script? Does that mean AI? Right. So, yeah, so I'm saying, you know, this is going to be something that I think we're just going to start to see more and more of where, yeah, maybe you do have to report it. You know, if that becomes some kind of law, we'd have to report that. Yes, we're using AI, but I think it's going to start to become a standard that most people are going to be using AI. And the idea is, is that they're going to be babysitting it, right?

49:00 They're going to be, you know, similar to SIDS. His editor, right, That he knows she's still listening, she's still checking the work. BC described that too. But you can't just rely solely on whatever Riverside spits out. Sometimes you got to go in and babysit it. So I think, yes, it could be a rule. And I think in many cases it's not going to matter anymore. People are just going to accept the fact that we're using AI as a tool. I think you're right, Mark. It's kind of like when you see a picture, you just assume it's been photoshopped or whatever the right term is. You just, everybody does it. So it's just an assumption. Dr. Did you want to say something? It's it's just a cute little disclaimer assisted by AI.

49:43 Boom, That's it. That's all you need. Or I wonder if we turn it around and say this episode was fully developed by a human being and that would be the selling point for some people who don't want to be in the in the AI field. That would be something, sure. I'm trying to imagine doing shows without AI right now. It would be the most time consuming stuff and I'm not sure that I would have the capacity to have more more than just a couple clients doing that. I want to go to Ashley, but I want to throw something out there before we wrap up today. First thing, Mark speaking for me and for everybody else, we want to wish you the best today and what's going on. But the other thing I wanted to add to this is here's the scary part of that Dr. What if tomorrow we woke up and the AI didn't work?

50:31 That is what keeps me up at night sometimes because all of us have built this AI into our process. So I'm going to throw that, but go ahead. Ashley, you had a comment you wanted to make. Oh, I was just going to say that it would actually be pretty challenging to fully produce a podcast without some kind of AI tool because it's built into just darn near everything. I mean, I could probably come up with AAI free workflow, but again, back to the original point, what someone's going to charge you based on time if they have AI assistance versus no AI assistance is night and day. And also to your point about what if we woke up tomorrow and AI didn't work, I think that's where we could draw a line in the sand on your editors.

51:17 Because the ones who have, you know, started their careers only with AI assistants are going to be have a completely different experience than those of us who have been in since before there was such a wide AI adoption. Well said and Dave, thank you a great again. Dave said great point Ralph, he does his own work. Listen, I want to, I want to land this plaintive, I want to keep everybody in our time limit. I just want to invite everybody back tomorrow. I have got more mailbag questions. Tomorrow we're going to do wins of the week and I'm going to do it tomorrow. We're going to talk about if you got $5000 today and you could use it for your content creation, where would you spend it? So make sure you come back and join us tomorrow. Thank you. I apologize for a little bit of the technical difficulties today, but we made it through. So everybody have a great day and Mark, again, you're in our thoughts and our our well wishes for today. So everybody have a great day and make sure you join us again tomorrow on the show.