459. Three Reasons This Radiolab Episode Hooks You Hard

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Good morning podcasting morning
chat.

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Today is Monday, February 22nd,
2026, and today is our obsession

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worthy podcast show.
We're going to be listening to

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Colors by Radiolab and Jonathan
Howard is going to lead us in a

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great discussion about what
makes this obsession worthy and

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what can we all learn from it.
So if you're listening live on

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Clubhouse, hit the share button,
bottom left hand side of the

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screen and share it how the
Clubhouse lets you.

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If you want to join us live on
the video, go to

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podcastingmorningchat.com/join
us.

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And if you're catching us in US
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LinkedIn, please share this
episode with a fellow podcaster.

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And now give me about 30 seconds
and we'll get things going.

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Thank you so much for being here
today.

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Well, good morning, everybody.
Thank you for joining us on the

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podcasting morning chat.
And joining me here on stage is

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producer Ashley.
We've got Jonathan Howard, Dr.

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Face, Sid Meadows, Janae and
Nikki, we're so glad you're here

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to join us today.
So today we're doing Obsession

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Worthy podcast.
We're going to be talking about

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one from Radiolab.
And I have to be honest with

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you, I had never heard of
Radiolab before.

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I mean, I heard of them, but
I've never listened to one of

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their shows before.
And I'll tell you what, it was

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quite an adventure.
So I'm going to get rolling here

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right away.
Again, if you want to join us

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and see us live our pretty faces
BC Jonathan and I are here on

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Riverside, you can go to
podcastingmorningchat.com/joinus.

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But without further ado, let me
turn it over to Jonathan.

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Jonathan, the floor is yours, my
friend.

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All right, well, thank you very
much.

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And just before we jump into
this, we do obsession worthy

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podcast to really highlight
thing different things that

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other podcasts are doing that we
could do in our own.

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We can, you know, take a little
bit from it and make it our own.

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So we have something unique for
that.

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And I am going to jump in today
to this obsession worthy

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podcast, which is Radiolab and
their episode colors, which is a

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few years old, but it's still
lots of interesting things that

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they do here.
Really the concept of this show

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is is what Hey, stop.
What if the red you see this

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particular episode is what if
the red you see is not the same

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red eye see, and what else is in
the world is a shared

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hallucination.
So this particular episode

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explores how perception works
and it quietly just stabilizes

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your confidence in reality.
Like, wait, is this not the way

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it's supposed to be?
Because The thing is, do we

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actually see all colors the
same?

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Is your red, Ralph my red?
And that's what we're going to

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discover.
So if you haven't listened to

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this episode, the a major
difference in this podcast is

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that it's not character first.
It's a narrative podcast, but

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it's sensation first.
So you're feeling things and

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you're listening to kind of a,
an abstract topic.

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It's not people that you're
feeling first.

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So you're going to get the
sensation first with this.

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Hold on.
I want to key on what you just

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said.
So what you're saying is when

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I've said to somebody, what
color is the sky in your world,

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what you're really saying is
there could be a difference.

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Yep.
Wow, that's very cool.

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But knowing that this episode is
slightly different from any of

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the others reviewed, let's
actually start with the first

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clip.
I want you to pay close

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attention to the sound
engineering and the multiple

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narrators throughout all these
clips because that is something

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that's very unique about this
podcast, as well as some of the

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things that we'll talk about
right after this clip.

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I'm.
Going to talk about Isaac

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Newton, but more specifically
colors.

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All right, Isaac Newton.
He's 23 years old. 1665.

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And he's he's home for the
holidays.

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No, there's no holiday.
He's home for the plague.

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There was actually a plague.
They sent everybody home from

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school.
In any case, he's in his room

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famously solving all these
mysteries of the world.

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And one of the questions that he
thinks about during this break

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is.
What are colors?

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Where do they come from?
Like when I see the color red,

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is that red?
Is it inside my head or is it

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something that exists sort of
out there?

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In the world, is the light
without, or is the light within?

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So he pokes a knife into his
eye.

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What?
Do you mean here's what Newton

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wrote in his notebook.
I took a bodkin, put it betwixt

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my eye and the bone as near to
the backside of my eye as I

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could, and pressing my eye with
the end of it, it appeared

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several white, dark and colored
circles.

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Did that lead him to some
conclusion about where the spots

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live, whether they're outside or
inside?

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No, this didn't get him very
far.

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So he pokes a knife into his
eye.

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That's actually a really key
line in that particular in that

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particular clip, because it
actually brings us all into

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what's going on in the episode.
This is a very abstract episode

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about color and whether color is
the same for all of us.

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If it's inside the light,
outside the light, all of those

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things.
We're not.

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We don't really get that, but we
need something to drag us into

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the story.
So poking a knife into the eye

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does a lot.
It's the fastest way to make an

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abstract topic feel like a real
story.

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It snaps the listener into the
scene and makes it go from

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boring, scientific blah to
actually something, wait a

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minute, this is happening and it
creates instant curiosity gap,

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what's going on and what's going
to happen next.

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So it really sets the tone for
the episode and it's so great

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one liner that we can actually
use if we want to use it.

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Something like this in our
podcast, which I'll talk about

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in a second, but I want to throw
it out to everybody, see if

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there's anybody that has
anything they want to say about

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that particular clip.
It certainly gets your attention

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from the start, Jonathan.
I think that's one of the cool

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things they use here because
like I said, I had never

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listened to Radiolab before and
it was a fascinating, the way it

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was put together was amazing.
And yeah, that just called me

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like, did I just hear that?
Because I got to be honest with

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you, I was kind of working at
the same time, tax season for

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me.
So I've always got stuff to do.

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And when I heard it, did I just
hear that right?

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Like it took a double take and
it made me go, all right, I'm

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going to pause what I'm doing
right now and I'm going to

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listen a little deeper because I
want to see what's going to

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happen with that.
Well, I'm going to just give you

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a quick rundown of how you can
use to do this for yourself.

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So you can do use this formula.
Simple, Start with a moment that

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breaks the norm, whatever that
moment is, something that breaks

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the norm, and then immediately
tie back to what it means for

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the listener.
And then you promise to pay off

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and there you go.
The more unhinged, the normal,

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the norm breaking moment is
though, the tighter you got to

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tie it back to what it means to
the listener.

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So just keep that in mind when
you're breaking, when you're

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breaking something like that,
you want to tie it back to you.

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You know, something then
something that means something

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that means something for the
listener.

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So again, with the sound
engineering, the first clip, I

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definitely wanted you guys to
kind of listen to some of that,

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but mostly in this clip because
the sound engineering here is

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about to jump to another level
and it's using the sound

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actually to tell a story in this
clip so we can hit that second

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clip.
Man of shrimps are are mostly

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pretty small, about the size of
a finger.

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Some get to be as big as your
forearm.

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Big, big animals.
I'm actually looking this up

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right here.
Oh my God, they're so colorful.

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No, they are colorful though.
Here, look at this.

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Oh my God, they're just like a
It's like they're electric

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colored.
Yeah, they're like turquoise or

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something.
Iridescent.

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And their eyes are like little
cartoon eyes.

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They're gigantic.
Yeah, they have two really big

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eyes right on the front.
And you said the dogs have two

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cones, We have 3.
How much does the butterfly have

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again?
Butterfly has five depends on

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the butterfly.
Managed firms have 16160 my.

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Well, if you have 16. 16 kinds
of receptors What?

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Would the rainbow look like to
them?

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I mean, could they even see it?
Manship would see the rainbow

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fine because they live in very
shallow water and so the water

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is pretty clear, almost like
air.

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They would start the rainbow
way, way, way inside where we

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see Violet.
They would see extraordinarily

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deep ultraviolet and then they
would go on through several

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kinds of ultraviolet that
probably 5 or six kinds of

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ultraviolet.
And then they would get to

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Violet, which which is now
they're reaching our colors and

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go through Violet and Violet,
blue and blue and blue-green.

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Where they have those green,
green, blue, blue, Blues as

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well.
Yep, and then they would go out

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and do the Reds, so they would
be about about as red as us when

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they got to the red end.
But only in the Reds.

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Yeah, what a rainbow that must
be.

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So what's happening in this clip
is they're describing and

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they're using the choir to
actually be an example of the

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depth of vision that these like
'cause with the mantis shrimp

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has 16 color cones, whereas we
have 3.

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So all the colors we see are
based on those 3 cones.

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Some humans, we'll get to that
later, have 4.

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Butterflies have 5 and the
mantis shrimp has 16.

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So they're using the choir.
Since we can't see this color on

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it, a podcast, we can't see
really what this is.

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They're using this as a tool to
bring people in and highlight

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the complexity of what this
might be by using the choir to

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kind of exhibit that and
highlighting that.

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So again, really interesting way
of putting this podcast

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together, really creative
connections.

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So I'm going to, I don't see the
clubhouse room, so I'm leaving

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that up to you, Ralph.
I do want to bring up something

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that Dr. put in here, Jonathan,
that I think we could talk

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about.
Dr. said her mic's not working,

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but what's the difference
between the way that we're that

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we're using this method as a
Stinger?

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So I thought that was a really
good question.

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So, Jonathan, what do you think
about that?

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Is she talking about the first
clip poking a knife in his eye?

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Yes, I agree.
Yes, that was, I was a little

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bit delayed in getting that to
you.

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Yeah, I think that's that is a
great way to bring people into

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into the topic.
They did not use it as the

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Stinger per SE, because they
didn't really have, they didn't

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really have a Stinger.
They kind of jumped right into

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the episode, but it was early on
and it did grab attention.

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So in that first two minutes, I
think they mentioned poking a

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knife into his eye.
So that's, I mean, anything

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using this method to grab
people's attention on anything

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is going to work.
And it can work, absolutely as a

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Stinger.
That's what her question.

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It definitely grabs your
attention for for lack of a

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better term.
And the thing I really liked

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about the second clip, Jonathan,
and I know this is one of the

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things you're going to talk
about, and I don't want to steal

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your Thunder, but the use of the
music in that was really amazing

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because they're talking about
this.

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I can't remember what it was the
some particular animal could

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see.
Sixty.

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Yeah.
See 16 blends of color.

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And I said, man, I feel so
inadequate in that.

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But what I thought was really
amazing was they used that

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choir, I guess you would call
behind them and it really build

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up your attention.
Again, I'm working and I look

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when I'm like, did I just hear a
choir come in here?

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Like I thought somebody turned
on music.

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And then office next to me, I
was like, what's going on here?

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You want to talk a little bit
about that, Jonathan?

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I want to actually talk a little
bit why the choir works

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00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,240
storytelling wise 1st and then
we'll talk a little bit about,

228
00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,800
you know, what, what it does.
And I'm, I'm glad you mentioned

229
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,600
that.
Well, I'm not glad you mentioned

230
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,280
that you felt inadequate, but
they.

231
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,000
Keep it nice now, Jonathan.
Now.

232
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,200
But I know I'm just being funny
with you guys.

233
00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:13,800
The whole thing, it is meant to
make us all feel like, wait a

234
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,240
minute, we don't have the best
vision in the world.

235
00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:22,320
We don't have, you know, what a
mantis shrimp has in that sense,

236
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,520
and we may not.
They see the world in a very

237
00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,760
different way than we do.
Just like dogs only sleep blue

238
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,920
and yellow, you know, that's
very different than what we see

239
00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:36,480
with one more cone.
So there's definitely a little

240
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,760
bit of, you know, oh, I feel
inadequate now.

241
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,360
My world doesn't feel the same
now is what they were going for.

242
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,920
So, but this particular, the use
of the choir, what it does is it

243
00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,080
keeps the pace alive.
It keeps it moving because it's

244
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,440
an abstract idea that could be
hard to understand.

245
00:12:54,480 --> 00:13:00,800
And if they needed to explain in
words what the choir did just by

246
00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,360
being there as kind of backup,
they would have, it would have

247
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,480
been 15 minutes of boringness.
It wouldn't have been as

248
00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,840
impactful if here's it would
have been like here's what

249
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,320
happens with the dog with two.
This is kind of what you would

250
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,960
feel like.
So using the choir was actually

251
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:19,560
really interesting for that.
And the other thing is it helps

252
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,520
the clip really pay off because
when you're going through it and

253
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,520
we didn't listen to all of them,
but it starts to build this

254
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:31,040
escalation and you're feeling
this concept through the choir.

255
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,080
And then when the mantis shrimp
hits, it's much more than

256
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,800
everyone else.
So it really delivers that

257
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,480
point.
So that was definitely something

258
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,920
I thought was really, really
interesting and part of the

259
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:46,080
sound development in this
podcast, which is phenomenal

260
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,280
when you really listen to all
the different parts.

261
00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:53,200
There's a lot of really creative
ways that they put the podcast

262
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,440
together, their audios really
interesting.

263
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,480
And this is kind of what you
were talking about when, you

264
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,000
know, we felt inadequate.
We're suddenly realizing through

265
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,640
this clip that we experienced
the world filtered by our brain

266
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,480
and our senses, which is
limited.

267
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,800
And humans are not the most
special of all creatures on

268
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,760
Earth.
Others can perceive things

269
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,440
differently than we can.
So that was definitely one of

270
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,240
the, you know, shots fired
moments in this clip.

271
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,640
You're like, OK, wait, we are
not just special.

272
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,240
And Jonathan, I, I want to
mention that because you've got

273
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,400
your dog there and people who
aren't watching this live,

274
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,200
Jonathan's little dog is, is
definitely wanting to get in the

275
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:33,800
shot.
But I know they mentioned the

276
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,520
dogs only seen in a couple
colors.

277
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,800
And I felt so bad for my German
Shepherd.

278
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,000
I was like, that's interesting.
They don't see as much as we can

279
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,840
see.
Again, that's one of the cool

280
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,680
things about this particular
podcast.

281
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,320
It was like, I learned a ton of
stuff from that.

282
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,360
It was really amazing.
I learned a ton from it too, and

283
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,240
and I forgot the dogs saw only
blue and yellow, which is why

284
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,280
there's certain toys that they
automatically go to.

285
00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,520
I totally forgot that everything
else is Gray.

286
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,280
All right, this next clip is
about discovering a mythical

287
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,400
mutant female.
Because vision cones are on X

288
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:10,320
chromosomes, females obviously
can get double the vision cones

289
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:16,160
in some and some get a yellow
cone that makes it able to see

290
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,000
more colors.
And they were on on the lookout

291
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:24,640
for one of these mutant mythical
mutant females and they found

292
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,480
her.
So that is where we start with

293
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,480
this next clip.
This is clip #3 right Jonathan?

294
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,280
Yes, it is.
OK, here we go.

295
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,960
That's the trick, Jay said.
If you show them to a real

296
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,800
tetrachromat, they're going to
be able to see these subtle

297
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,240
differences that, you know, you
and I can't see.

298
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,200
And back to Pittsburgh.
So how about we head over toward

299
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,000
that trees that that look?
Like take my shoes off.

300
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,400
Oh yeah, it'll be much more fun
for.

301
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:54,880
Me.
We ended up doing the test in a

302
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,360
nearby park.
We're going to do a bunch of

303
00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:57,880
these.
If you don't mind.

304
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,400
In the first trial, I took out
three of the swatches, 2 that

305
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,480
were exactly the same and one
that was supposedly different.

306
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,360
And when you took it out, could
you see the difference?

307
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,680
No, no.
So I go behind the tree and I

308
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:15,960
whisper into the mic #3 is
different #3 I hope you couldn't

309
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:16,960
hear me, no.
Thank.

310
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,880
You, I'll let you take a look.
She steps back from the

311
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:28,160
swatches, gives it a look for a
moment, and then she says. #3.

312
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,440
3rd 1 is different.
Looks more neutral, less red

313
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,800
than one and two on the left.
One for one luck.

314
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,280
So I went behind the tree right
on 2nd, changed up the swatches

315
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,840
so that now the middle Swatch
was the odd one out and same

316
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:44,800
same deal.
Ready.

317
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:45,280
Set.
Go.

318
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,600
Easy.
Which number looks different?

319
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:54,040
The middle one. #2 You are
right.

320
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,360
Really.
Wow.

321
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,760
OK then I figured I got to make
it harder.

322
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,680
I switched it up and I made it
so all three are different and I

323
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,079
didn't tell her all three are
different.

324
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,520
All three different I green,
red, less red.

325
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,240
Knocking it out of the park BC.
Did you want to make a comment?

326
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,000
Yeah, I'm wondering if anyone
hasn't hasn't heard this before,

327
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,880
you know, if if this plays into
why color blindness with yellow,

328
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,640
green color blindness moves
between fathers and daughters.

329
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,600
And then if the daughter has a
son, it'll pass on it.

330
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,800
It moves that way.
Color blindness is.

331
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,600
I wonder if this is speaking to
that without directly mentioning

332
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,560
it.
Because the vision cones are on

333
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,720
the X chromosome.
Females have two, males have

334
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,280
one.
So that's why males are much off

335
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,920
more often color blind, and
that's why it skips when there's

336
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,680
a female.
They're still carrying the one

337
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,960
chromosome that has the color
blindness, and that's why

338
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,640
females can have this, and I
forgot what it's called, but

339
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,440
four cones, a little bit better
vision.

340
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,040
And that's kind of what we're
talking about here.

341
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,840
And it's not necessarily better
vision, it's just different

342
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,320
vision.
They can see more colors.

343
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,200
And Jonathan, the brilliant part
of this though, and I'm, I'm

344
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,760
assured this is what you're
going to talk about was man,

345
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,520
it's like a game show all of a
sudden.

346
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,920
And I'm feeling like, oh, I got
to hear how this plays out.

347
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,320
And like, I hear the guy whisper
and I'm like, oh, this is really

348
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,800
again, it's engaging me back to
and that's the thing I will say

349
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,560
about this particular podcast.
Almost every few minutes there

350
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,520
was a re engagement.
There was another re engagement

351
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,880
and another re engagement.
And this one just did because

352
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,600
I'm waiting to see.
I'm like, is this lady going to

353
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,720
figure this out?
Is it is the, is there some kind

354
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:41,800
of scam going on here?
And he says, I'm going to

355
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,040
whisper this hoping she couldn't
hear me.

356
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,320
So I thought that was really
effective, Jonathan.

357
00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:47,880
Yeah.
So this is the third kind of

358
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,760
tool that they're using to bring
some humanity to this topic,

359
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,240
which is a very abstract topic.
Right at the beginning.

360
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,480
They use the the narration and,
you know, sticking the thing in

361
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,040
his eye.
So that was that was the first

362
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,360
tool that they used to really
bring humanness into it.

363
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,480
Next, they use the choir and
this one, they're using a human

364
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,600
to actually tell a story about
something that's very abstract

365
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,760
again.
So they're really diving into

366
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:16,160
that and talking about what why,
you know, it's important for

367
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,560
this person.
It may it brings it home for us.

368
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,920
It's like, OK, now there's a
human before we've got stories

369
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,920
that kind of involved humans,
but now we're really saying this

370
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,120
impacts a human.
So we use the human storytelling

371
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:32,600
to really land on the point.
But they have, you know, a bit

372
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,200
of tension happening
particularly.

373
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,400
And then before we go through
the full story, let's actually

374
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,040
listen to the 4th, 4th clip
because it's a continuation,

375
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,960
because they ran into a little
bit of a problem with this test.

376
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,440
Well, it actually might not have
totally worked.

377
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,360
Wait, what?
Did she start to fail?

378
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,680
There, there's one little thing
I didn't mention what I brought

379
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,080
along a friend.
I'm Jason Lacroix, painter,

380
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,760
landscape still life.
Thought I'd try them out as a

381
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,840
control.
Oh, 'cause you were thinking,

382
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,960
let's get someone who likes
color but is a boy and can't be

383
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:07,840
a tetrachroma.
Right.

384
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,960
And when we tried the exact same
test with him, I mean these

385
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,280
three, they look the same, don't
they?

386
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:16,520
To you?
No.

387
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,240
I see different.
He was amazing every time.

388
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,000
The first one on the left, you
jumped out immediately.

389
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,040
Number one.
They all three look different to

390
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,440
me.
Was he just as good as Susan?

391
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,000
Yeah.
I was a little bit disappointed

392
00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:32,800
I got to.
Say, and there was nowhere where

393
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,760
he couldn't do it and she could.
No, but I mean, I only had

394
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,440
pieces of brown cloth, you know?
So it doesn't prove anything.

395
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,160
I guess she still might be a
tetrachromat, right?

396
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,800
For.
All I know, and there was this

397
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,480
one moment I'd know it doesn't
prove anything, but I asked her.

398
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,760
I asked her about the sky, and
the sky was just that.

399
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,760
Quintessential sky blue.
And she was, I was like, what do

400
00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:58,600
you see?
And she's like I.

401
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:03,480
See, do you see some of the pink
in the blue?

402
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,200
See, I see a lot of pink.
Like among the blue, there's red

403
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,000
in that blue.
Section.

404
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,360
She was looking up at a blue sky
and seeing red.

405
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,120
Yeah, yeah.
Do you see that?

406
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,840
No.
Oh, I see so much red like up it

407
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,080
and it's.
It's kind of a cop out, but it's

408
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,160
just kind of that perfect sky
blue.

409
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:26,200
OK, that's that's a good.
It's just mixed in there.

410
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:28,360
That's cool.
One thing I don't see is any

411
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:31,120
green in that blue.
I just see Reds right?

412
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:33,920
Especially around like white
clouded section.

413
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,600
And at that moment, I felt like
my sky is boring.

414
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,680
I'm so sorry for you.
For us, I'm sorry for us.

415
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,360
I.
Mean up until this point, they

416
00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:46,760
were really explaining
perception like a concept.

417
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,640
But the moment that she steps in
is the moment it becomes like

418
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,160
observable in real life.
She's living evidence that color

419
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,960
isn't a fixed external thing
because she's seeing color

420
00:21:58,360 --> 00:21:59,600
different than we're seeing
color.

421
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,880
So it's a relationship between
light and your brain.

422
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,360
The word you were looking for
earlier is tetrachromacy, and if

423
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,320
a woman has it, she's a
tetrachromat.

424
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,560
Thank you.
Yes, Tetrachromat, I appreciate

425
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,080
that.
Does anybody else?

426
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:23,400
Before I continue, we could.
All right, So whoops.

427
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,040
That's way too far ahead.
Clicking on the wrong thing.

428
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:32,320
All right, so the shrimp is awe,
the choir is clever, but she's

429
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,640
the part that makes you feel
like you have lost something,

430
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,360
makes you feel something.
Well, there's envy or wonder or

431
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:41,520
grief or a different
perspective.

432
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,960
But this line about the sky not
being entirely blue is pretty

433
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,960
much the show saying you're not
seeing the world as it is,

434
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,520
you're seeing the version you're
equipped to notice.

435
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,320
And that's kind of a, that's a
breaking of reality kind of

436
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,240
moment for a lot of people.
You're the world, You're not

437
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,120
seeing it as it is.
It's something different.

438
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:08,640
You're just perceiving it based
on your tools, your eyes, your,

439
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,120
you know, your brain, what it's
seeing and all those different

440
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:13,920
things.
So you're not seeing the world

441
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,400
as it is, you're seeing a
version you're equipped to

442
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,280
notice.
Janae had a comment.

443
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,080
Go ahead, Janae.
Absolutely.

444
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,440
So this is really cool and
explains the theory behind

445
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,880
light, right?
Light is a series of each color

446
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,200
is composed of different
wavelengths.

447
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,120
And for the longest time they
were not able to create other

448
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:39,080
color lights because of the
different wavelengths they

449
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,040
create.
So for a long time we didn't

450
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,640
have the stop lights that we
have green, red, yellow, and

451
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,200
even in some places you'll see
of different yellows, some some

452
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,600
sometimes brighter yellow,
darker yellow.

453
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,200
And that's because of the
wavelengths of what light

454
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,520
produces.
And having different cones in

455
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:02,600
the eyes explains why some
people might see different added

456
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,920
tangent and the colors.
And it's really cool how

457
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,880
explains and I'm sure you're
going to get there eventually,

458
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,000
but this is awesome.
Thanks.

459
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,080
Thank you Jenny does great
comment.

460
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:15,200
And I kind of wanted to mention
a little bit this woman's seeing

461
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,960
red in the sky.
And when you imagine that you're

462
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,760
thinking what the sky is blue,
how am I, how are they seeing

463
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,160
red?
Think about at sunset or

464
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,560
sunrise, you see red in the sky
at that point because the way

465
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,480
that the light is being
refracted, it's going to give

466
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,120
you a different color.
So it is possible that she's

467
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:36,960
seeing a different color at this
time.

468
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,280
She's her eyes are different
than ours.

469
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,320
She's perceiving the world in a
different way.

470
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,640
So it is possible that she is
actually seeing that red because

471
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,520
that red is present.
So it's not totally not there.

472
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,280
It's present because the light
light light contains all the

473
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,240
colors, hence the prism.
So I'm wondering, and I forget

474
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,480
if this goes into it, but if
she's already seeing on, you

475
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,400
know what, it sounds like kind
of a midday moment here, she's

476
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,720
already seeing longer
wavelengths of color, then what

477
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,440
do the actual evenings sunrise
look for her when the lights

478
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,680
actually coming in from that
more perpendicular angle?

479
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,920
They don't discuss it.
They were just mentioning that

480
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:15,960
she saw red and I wanted to make
sure that people kind of

481
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:17,680
understood that the red was
there.

482
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,960
We just can't all necessarily
see it.

483
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,640
They didn't go into that and it
would be interesting to see.

484
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:27,320
When we see a sunset, we see
amazing colors as it is, and

485
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,320
she's got an extra way of seeing
colors, so I'm sure it's quite

486
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,400
impressive.
And Jonathan, I don't know if

487
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,280
you've got one of these clips
ready and then we'll go to

488
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,960
Ashley real quick.
But I know you in the in the

489
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,000
show, it talked about some of
the philosophers and poets and

490
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,880
all those sort of things.
They saw different colors maybe

491
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,040
than we did.
But and I just wanted to plant

492
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,040
that seed.
But Ashley, go ahead.

493
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,960
You had a comment.
I just wanted to say how cool it

494
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,680
was that this lady just so
happened to be.

495
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,880
I think they said she was
interior decorator.

496
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,680
What a cool advantage to have
with this unique ability she

497
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,240
has.
Yeah.

498
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,760
And one of the things that they
said about that unique ability

499
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:09,360
and and people would, you know,
some people wouldn't notice it

500
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:12,480
because they don't use it.
So if you're not an interior

501
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,840
designer or an artist or
something where you're looking

502
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,400
at all these different colors,
you may not actually develop to

503
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,880
notice different colors.
If you do have this condition,

504
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,680
you know, she being an interior
designer happened to be able to

505
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,760
spot it and notice the different
color shades and all that.

506
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,600
So she kind of developed that as
she went.

507
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,440
And Ralph, the thing what you
were mentioning, I don't have

508
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,080
any clips from there, but we can
talk a little bit about that

509
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,560
because that was a really
interesting section.

510
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,200
Where in ancient Greek times did
they didn't see blue?

511
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:55,640
And also, blue is always the
last color that we name, as in

512
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,520
every single language.
Blue is the last color that we

513
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,720
name, interestingly enough,
because there's very few natural

514
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,320
blue things.
Now, the sky is blue.

515
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,600
Wouldn't that break the whole
thing?

516
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,120
Sort of.
But is the sky really blue?

517
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,800
Is what we're seeing in the sky
necessarily blue, or is it just

518
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,320
name blue, which happened after
and as we get language?

519
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,120
So one thing that they were
talking about is whether the

520
00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:27,480
language comes.
When the language comes, it's

521
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,600
because they need to name
something.

522
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,880
So when they finally come across
something that they need to name

523
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,280
as blue, which is other than the
sky, that's when they came up

524
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,640
with the name for blue.
And in a lot of situations they

525
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,080
didn't have a name for blue, so
it was anything but.

526
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,160
They describe all sorts of
different colors but blue.

527
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,560
And that's really interesting
because what they go into in the

528
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,080
episode, and correct me if I'm
wrong, Jonathan, but

529
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,400
philosophers and poets and
things like that were when they

530
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,600
were using language, didn't use
these other colors.

531
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,920
And it was an interesting
discussion they had because I

532
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,600
never really considered that
before.

533
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,000
And I said, well, that's
fascinating.

534
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,680
Maybe they couldn't see those
colors.

535
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,480
So this is going to get real
metaphysical here, But have we

536
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,080
adapted as a race to where all
of a sudden now we can see

537
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,760
colors that people couldn't see
before?

538
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,200
I mean, it kind of it kind of
jars your mind a little bit

539
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,760
like, wait a second, you know,
have we have we evolved or

540
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,320
whatever that term is?
We can get into a whole

541
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,080
political discussion about that.
I'm not going there.

542
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,800
But have we gotten to a point
where we're seeing more colors?

543
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,000
It's just a fascinating thing.
Yeah.

544
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,120
And their argument was that we
may not be seeing more colors,

545
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:36,960
but naming the color allows it
to fit into a box.

546
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,840
So giving it a name allows our
brain to go, OK, this is blue.

547
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,880
So I'm going to put all the
other blue things in that in

548
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,240
that category.
When they did this really

549
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,480
interesting experiment with
people that didn't have a name

550
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,600
for blue in their language and
they showed them a whole bunch

551
00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:01,680
of greens with a blue 1 blue box
that to us looks completely

552
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,880
different from the green boxes.
To them it looked like another

553
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,520
green, just a different shade of
green for them.

554
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,200
Which is cool.
So what you're really saying it,

555
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:16,040
it came down to the language
didn't have a quote word to use

556
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,080
for this color.
And that's really fascinating

557
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,040
too, because now we've got what,
a million different colors?

558
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,240
I mean, you look one of these
color wheels.

559
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,840
The person designed my website.
Like what color would you like?

560
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,520
I said, oh, I don't know, isn't
there 10 or 12?

561
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,040
And he's like, no, there's like
15,000,000.

562
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,080
I'm like, wow, like where do you
even start with that?

563
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,640
But that's one of the cool
things about this episode.

564
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,920
Like I like I said, this
wouldn't have been in the ones I

565
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,720
would have picked, man.
But I walk away from this is

566
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,120
like, I've really learned
something here and it's that was

567
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,680
a cool thing.
And I really, I thought that was

568
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,400
an interesting thing too.
I did skip over it because it

569
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,160
does get very metaphysical and
the clips needed to be much

570
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,200
longer for us to kind of really
understand it.

571
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,040
So I did skip over it for this
one.

572
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,640
But yeah, it's definitely a lot
of interesting topics there.

573
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,200
Let's talk about that for a
second, Jonathan.

574
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,880
Do you feel in their episode
that it got a little too deep?

575
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,800
Do you think it got a little bit
because I, that was my take away

576
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,800
at some point, like I was
engaged in this, the, the, the

577
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,360
theater of the mind was playing.
But at some point I almost felt

578
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,400
like this has gotten over my
head.

579
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,120
This has gotten to a point of
discussion where I'm like, I'm

580
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,200
not sure I can keep up anymore.
And I looked away, started doing

581
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,600
some other work like a lot of
people do when they listen to

582
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,800
podcast.
I think this is something you do

583
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,240
when you're doing something
else.

584
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,240
And so Jonathan, do you think it
got a little long?

585
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,000
Do you think it got a little too
deep?

586
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,920
I would say after, really after
she came in and we kind of

587
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,800
discovered that she sees the sky
differently than we do.

588
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,320
Then there was a lot of
conversation about the language

589
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,680
and how you know, and it was
interesting to me, but it was

590
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,640
not as well put together as the
first.

591
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,160
I would say half, maybe 3/4 of
the show.

592
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,880
I thought the first 3/4 of the
show was phenomenal.

593
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,480
And then it did kind of, it
dragged a little bit until it

594
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,680
got to the end.
But I thought, you know, because

595
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,080
it was a little, it was deeper
conversation.

596
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,000
I got that, you know, it wasn't
everybody's cup of tea.

597
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,040
Well, let me ask you a question
about that, Jonathan.

598
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,880
Do you think that was because
they had an arbitrary time that

599
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,120
they had to fill?
Was there like, because I, isn't

600
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,480
this public radio sort of
focused or something like that?

601
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,720
Because at some point it's
almost like, did they have a

602
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,360
certain container they had to
fill with content And like,

603
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,120
we've got to make sure our
episode is excellent because I,

604
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,000
I see a lot of podcasters do
that.

605
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,200
And I think that's not
necessarily a smart thing to do

606
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,400
if you got a particular show
that you want to be a certain

607
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,360
length, if you don't have really
compelling or remarkable content

608
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,280
for the sake of just making it
longer, I'm gonna let you speak,

609
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,160
Jonathan.
But I just felt like if that's

610
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,040
why they're doing it.
And I hadn't listened to any

611
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,600
other other episodes, so I don't
have any basis to compare.

612
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,920
But I just think that's a take
away for all of us.

613
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,120
If you've got this arbitrary
stopwatch going of I got to talk

614
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,720
for at least a certain number of
minutes, I think you got to be

615
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,120
careful of that because
Jonathan, like you said, it

616
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,520
wasn't as well put together.
It wasn't as, as you know,

617
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,480
contemplative, whatever that
word is.

618
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,240
What I would say is I'm not sure
if they had a specific time that

619
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,680
they needed to fill for this,
but in future episodes, because

620
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,120
this was an earlier episode, in
future episodes, their length is

621
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:22,120
down to 30 to 40 minutes now.
So it looks like they probably

622
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,400
found a, a good format that's
going to work for them and it's

623
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,360
about 30 to 40 minutes long.
And that's kind of what they're

624
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,480
living within right now.
And I think one of the things

625
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,560
that I always say, people ask
me, how long does it have to be?

626
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,040
How long do I need to, you know,
anything I do on social media,

627
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,040
it needs to be as long as it
needs to be to get your point

628
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:40,920
across.
And I think that's something

629
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,520
that we should all keep in mind.
So I think they got their point

630
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,080
across.
There was a couple things that

631
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,200
were interesting in the in the
last couple sections, but they

632
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,240
really got their point across in
the first 3 sections with that

633
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,440
with the three different devices
they use to tell the story.

634
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,280
PC did you want to make a
comment?

635
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,600
Yeah, I just want to say any,
any new podcasters out there who

636
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,760
do like say you, you rent out a
studio time and you have an hour

637
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,960
to fill, but you feel like your
conversation quote UN quote over

638
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,120
after 40 minutes.
You can give your kind of

639
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,880
official closer.
Keep the recording going though,

640
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,200
because a lot of times just kind
of shooting the breeze post

641
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,360
facto officially brings up a lot
of fun points that you didn't

642
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,440
realize to bring into the
initial conversation.

643
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:27,160
And you can post, take that post
ending conversation and

644
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,520
implement that somewhere into
the meat of your episode to give

645
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,960
it a bit more juice.
So just a real caveat there.

646
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,080
NBCI tend to agree with you
because I I listen to James

647
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,800
Credlin and Sam Sethi do the
podcasting weekly review and one

648
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,080
of the things they do at the end
is they have like this banter

649
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,120
back and forth.
And I think that's really

650
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,960
effective.
But it's really effective at the

651
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,840
end of the show because those
are the people that wanted to

652
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,320
listen all the way through.
That was the people that wanted

653
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,000
to be there.
And, and I agree with you.

654
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,520
And sometimes I think that you
can go back and edit this.

655
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,320
I mean, that's the benefit of
what we do here, right?

656
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,440
You know, we can go back and add
clips, we can put things into

657
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,040
different places.
And you're right, you might have

658
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,080
something amazing at the end.
I just, my point though, was

659
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,400
just don't have this arbitrary
stopwatch of like, I've got to

660
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,360
fill this many minutes.
Because I think when you do that

661
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,040
and, and I think you're, I don't
think you're disagreeing with

662
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,360
your BC.
I just think we have to be

663
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,239
careful of that because I see a
lot of people say like, like

664
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,920
Jonathan said, you know, how
long does it need to be?

665
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,800
Well, it needs to be long
enough, but not too long.

666
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,719
You know, we all, we all have
only so many minutes in our

667
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,760
lives.
And if you're just just filling

668
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,679
up with filibuster, you know,
that can be dangerous too, 100.

669
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,000
Percent.
Let's head into that fifth clip

670
00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:37,520
and I'm just going to I'll
preface it by saying the sky

671
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,800
being blue is the loss of
innocence, and that's all I'll

672
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,960
say.
You know, it's kind of, it's now

673
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,199
that I've heard this, I'm a
little, I'm a little ruining

674
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:52,800
the, the moment when Alma
decided the sky was blue.

675
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,560
Let her have whatever color she
wants it to be.

676
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,800
Doesn't have to be blue.
Weirdly, then, color is a loss

677
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,080
of innocence.
Yeah, it's like.

678
00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:06,480
Having something fixed that for
a while is just between you and

679
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,080
your frenzied harsh, you know,
just.

680
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,840
And the sky has many colors.
Truthfully.

681
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,520
On the other hand, though, I'm
disagreeing with myself.

682
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,240
Now, if we all agree the sky is
blue, then that's something we

683
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:17,040
can share.
That she can share.

684
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,680
And then she's in conversation.
And then eventually she'll

685
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,160
understand, you know, this kind
of blue.

686
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:31,000
So innocence is before you learn
to label the sky blue because

687
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:32,960
before that this guy is just
this guy.

688
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,640
And they were talking about that
as one of the hosts was didn't

689
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:43,600
tell her his daughter that the
sky was blue and just, you know,

690
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,760
it wasn't blue to her until she
finally kind of got the multiple

691
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,240
people saying the sky was blue.
She didn't label that as blue

692
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:52,560
even though she knew the color
blue.

693
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:57,480
So it was interesting that, you
know, once it's labeled blue,

694
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,440
then our brain kind of starts to
compress and categorize and

695
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:02,320
label it.
OK, blue.

696
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,400
Got it.
Next, you know, the Sky's blue.

697
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,160
OK.
So it was an interesting, it was

698
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,880
definitely an interesting thing
'cause I, I was surprised that

699
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,600
the, the daughter didn't
recognize the sky is blue.

700
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,200
She knew the color blue, but she
didn't recognize the sky as

701
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,360
blue.
Jonathan, let me ask you a

702
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,160
question, because I think where
you went was kind of

703
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,520
metaphysical again, because are
you saying that language is the

704
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,120
limiting factor to our minds?
I mean, because I as what I hear

705
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,480
you saying and, and, but, but,
and maybe that's the truth is

706
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,160
like we feel things as a human
being, We feel emotions, we see

707
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,920
things, we, they're all of our
senses, But we're, we're, we're

708
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:45,160
trapped in this on inability to
say them because there isn't a

709
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,240
word for that.
You know, you think about when

710
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:49,120
we're doing a live show or
something like that, we always

711
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:50,200
say, Oh, I can't think of that
word.

712
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,800
BC grabbed that one from
earlier.

713
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,440
But what if there is no word?
What if there is no word to

714
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,400
explain the shade that you see
or the feeling that you have?

715
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,960
Because we're limited by the
words in our language.

716
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,920
And are they really?
Is there a word for that?

717
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,000
Go, go ahead BC.
Well, I think it goes back to

718
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,680
the statement from earlier where
we said that our perceptions

719
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,440
limited.
So I think that natural draw to

720
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,920
take some that for a long time
operates beyond definition and

721
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,960
therefore giving it one is
something that we need to be

722
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,920
able to continue to process the
world.

723
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,560
But unfortunately, once that
definition is a fixed, that

724
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,800
thing loses a lot of its, I
don't know if versatility is the

725
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,920
right word, but a lot of it's
ambiguity is lost.

726
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,880
So it stops being so wondrous.
It stops, it starts to become

727
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,200
something that we've now brought
into that box.

728
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,760
It's almost like we'd be better
off going around grunting at

729
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,040
each other because maybe we'd be
able to express ourselves in a

730
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,240
better way.
And Tim put something in the

731
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:58,000
chat, he says Visual artist.
This is fascinating and I agree

732
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,720
with it was fascinating to me
and it really didn't hit me till

733
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:04,000
about two minutes ago.
And that is really what this is

734
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,040
saying is language is limiting
our ability to express what

735
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,560
we're experiencing.
I know that sounds very

736
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,160
metaphysical.
This is they're going to tune

737
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,360
into the show and they're going
to say, boy, this got really

738
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,800
metaphysical in the podcast in
the morning chat today.

739
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,880
But but the cool thing is this
episode, this particular color,

740
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,040
it made us think and listen.
If you want to have obsession

741
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,240
worthy podcast, have your
listener walk away thinking

742
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:31,800
about what you just said to
them.

743
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,280
Because now, honestly, I want to
go back and listen to it again

744
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,120
because I want to go see I
probably missed some of that.

745
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,480
Yeah.
And so here's the thing that,

746
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,840
you know, you're we're talking
about, like labeling something

747
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,400
flattens the reality of it.
It makes it fit into a category.

748
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:53,240
But when we all agree that sky
is blue, it becomes something

749
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:56,040
that's stable and we can share
and that helps us build

750
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,280
connection and community.
So when we can share something.

751
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:04,120
So the trade off is, you know,
the sky has many colors really,

752
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,240
but we can talk about the sky in
a way that we can all agree upon

753
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:13,760
by having the sky be blue.
So you're you're kind of trading

754
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,120
one thing for the other.
And that's where language and

755
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,680
languages is what's doing that
for us because we need to, we

756
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,880
need to describe, you know, the
sky.

757
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,800
Well, my sky is not blue right
now, but you know, my sky is

758
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,080
white right now.
I want to go to Janae because

759
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:30,440
Janae had a comment.
Jonathan.

760
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,880
This is fascinating for sure.
And you're right.

761
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:37,960
When you assign a word to a
character or color, you are

762
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,360
essentially compressing and
generalizing.

763
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,880
Oh, that thing is black, but how
many shades of black can you

764
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,600
even have?
It's pretty amazing.

765
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,680
I have a black device here,
another black device, but

766
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,400
there's two different shades.
And that comes down to, you

767
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,720
know, how deep and descriptive
do you want to be when you're

768
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,480
creating a story, when you're
telling a story, when you're

769
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,280
staring a narrative?
I've been listening to this new

770
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,160
podcast called the Y Files, and
I had just discovered it

771
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:13,800
randomly because it talks about
random unsolved mysteries.

772
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:20,000
And the way he describes each,
every little aspect of what is

773
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,600
going on, it's again.
If you want to be descriptive,

774
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,280
you have to use a lot more
words.

775
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,320
And when you have just one word
describing the color blue, well,

776
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,800
there you have it.
You can have so many different

777
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,880
shades of blue.
And that's why I think I haven't

778
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,280
listened to this episode.
And I would love to because you

779
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:42,200
guys said it goes really deep.
And I think that's what bringing

780
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:49,480
depth into any conversation, you
know, expresses is what it is

781
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,720
that anybody is seeing.
A little bit of a lint, a hint

782
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:55,320
of red, a hint of pink and the
blue.

783
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,160
And if you try to focus it,
maybe you might see it, maybe

784
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,600
you might not.
But I think that's the beauty

785
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,080
of, you know, doing what we're
doing.

786
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,840
I think that's brilliant, Janae,
and it makes me want to go buy a

787
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,040
thesaurus.
And before I do my shows next

788
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,800
time, go find extra words that
are nuanced.

789
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,440
No, I'm serious nuanced ways to
say other things because, you

790
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,000
know, I, I think as humans, we
kind of lock ourselves into a

791
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,760
vernacular, A vocabulary that we
usually use.

792
00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:26,800
And maybe one of the key
takeaways today is to go find

793
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,040
words that are more expressive
and, you know, maybe you teach,

794
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:31,720
you know, you can share words
that you found.

795
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,960
I found this word I never forget
when I was in in high school or

796
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,440
college marching band.
I went to University of Nebraska

797
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,680
and we got done one of our
halftime performances and we got

798
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,760
off the field and the band
director set up and said that

799
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,200
was abysmal.
And I said abysmal.

800
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,680
I got, I had no idea what he's
called.

801
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:50,480
I'm in college.
I had no idea what that word

802
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,520
meant.
But from that point on, abysmal

803
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,120
became part of my vocabulary.
And I think that one of the one

804
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,240
of the takeaways for me today is
this is a way for us to build

805
00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:05,480
our vocabularies and really be
more expressive because you know

806
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,880
that we're so locked into the
words we normally use.

807
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,200
Johnson, I don't want to steal
your Thunder, but it's just one

808
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,560
of the things that that one of
the takeaways I had from it.

809
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,400
And I love that.
I'm just going to remind you 5th

810
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,760
grade reading level no higher
because then people don't

811
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,480
understand what you're saying,
which is the problem sometimes.

812
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,840
But they actually in this
podcast, they obviously went

813
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,600
deeper and there was a little
bit more than fifth grade level

814
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,640
in in the words that they use.
I do want to go through some of

815
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,400
the things that make it
obsession worthy and some of the

816
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:37,400
things that kind of fit into
other podcasts that we've talked

817
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,520
about.
But unless there's anybody else

818
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:40,560
that has anything they want to
add.

819
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:46,240
I just want to comment on what
Tim just mentioned in the and

820
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:48,480
the comments below.
It says Western world.

821
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,520
We base our perception of color
on the Greeks and the colors

822
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,520
they saw.
But due to their proximity to

823
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,800
the equator, it influenced their
perception.

824
00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:00,240
If you think about it, depending
on where you are from, how far

825
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:02,520
you are from the equator, the
color is going to be different.

826
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,920
Like the closer you are to the
equator, you're going to see a

827
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:09,280
lot more colors because brighter
sunlight, brighter flower colors

828
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:14,120
like things change because the
proximity of where you are from

829
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,160
the equator.
And if you think about Newton,

830
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,760
where was he in the proximity
from the equator?

831
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,640
So that again, you know, links
back to that first thing.

832
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,000
Why did he poke in his eyes?
Because he can see many colors.

833
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,280
Well, there's not a lot of
colors outside where he was

834
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:31,720
living.
So thanks.

835
00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:33,680
This is awesome.
There's definitely.

836
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,840
I mean, I remember when I went
to Hawaii the first time in 3rd

837
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,840
grade and I looked up and I go,
wow, these colors are

838
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,240
incredible.
So yes, the closer the equator

839
00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:43,160
you are and, and the more colors
you'll see.

840
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,120
All right.
So a couple of things that make

841
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:52,120
this obsession worthy #1 is it
has that emotional driver, that

842
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,040
universal emotion that I always
talk about.

843
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,640
And that particular emotion is
it's not fear, it's not

844
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,960
inspiration, it's actually
uncertainty.

845
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,920
When they introduce this topic,
it we've never seen it this way.

846
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,040
How wait, is this real?
And then we can't Unsee it.

847
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,920
So that is definitely the
universal emotion that they're

848
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,200
pulling out of this that allows
us to really dive into it and

849
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,720
connect with it because wait a
minute, it's like that brain

850
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:23,560
itch, that thing that you just
can't Unsee.

851
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:30,160
So that emotion also creates the
universal doorway, which is how

852
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,520
we experience this episode.
And that is, do we experience

853
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,640
the same world?
Like, are we experiencing the

854
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:41,520
same exact world as some as the
person next to us, or is it

855
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,760
different?
And we learned through this

856
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,040
episode, we're experiencing a
different world based on our

857
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,160
perceptions, based on our, you
know what?

858
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,240
We have our tools.
We're like, oh, OK, this is

859
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,800
different.
So it creates that universal

860
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,520
doorway that we're all kind of
viewing this podcast through.

861
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,920
And I see BC has a hand up.
Yeah, I want to answer that

862
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:05,200
question real quick with my own
experience.

863
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,160
We definitely don't.
And I'm going to say that is the

864
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,200
only person in my household of
five who doesn't have some kind

865
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,880
of visual impairment, who down
here in the South, by the way,

866
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:15,920
North Carolina, we have these
things called water bugs.

867
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,320
Everyone else calls them
American cockroaches.

868
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,880
I'm the only one in the house,
because of my 2020 vision, who

869
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,480
finds the bugs.
Everyone else can be like 3

870
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,720
inches away from it.
They see nothing.

871
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,760
I will clock it 3 rooms down the
hallway in the corner of the

872
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,200
ceiling.
Not the same experience.

873
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:40,360
That's my trauma for the day.
Yeah, and we don't see this the

874
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,840
world in the same way.
It's very, it's very interesting

875
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,680
and we kind of know it because
we do have experiences like

876
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,920
that.
But when you look at it from the

877
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,720
sense of, you know, like even
just color, how everybody's

878
00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:55,040
going to see color differently.
So couple other things that make

879
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,360
it obsession worthy.
It turns ideas like these

880
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,760
moments into scenes, Newton in
the dark room, the choir that

881
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:06,880
singing the perceptions and a
person staring at the sky and

882
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,480
seeing it red where we don't see
any red.

883
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,560
So it turns these ideas into
full scenes that really are

884
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,880
engaging and connect with the
audience make it very human.

885
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,160
It also uses receipts based
storytelling.

886
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,280
A lot of the podcast do that
this one does.

887
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,480
It doesn't just explain it, it
demonstrates through

888
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,880
experiments, sound design and
other experiences so that you

889
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,920
see what's really happening and
then it lands on something

890
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,920
that's meaningful.
You know, if they didn't go, OK,

891
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,640
here's how wavelengths work and
here's why, you know, the

892
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,680
specific in science of what
you're seeing because that's

893
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,480
kind of boring.
It really ended on perception is

894
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,320
fragile and shared language
might be the glue that holds it

895
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:56,120
all together.
So, you know, we, we see things

896
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,400
differently, but this shared
language is what allows us to

897
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,400
kind of bring this all together
and, and operate as a society

898
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,360
and connect with other people.
So those were a few of the

899
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:06,880
things that make it obsession
worthy.

900
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,600
It also uses a really magical
storytelling formula.

901
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,200
And I don't know if Nick's here,
but he's always looking for the

902
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,240
storytelling formulas.
They start out with

903
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:21,600
destabilizing belief, then they
prove it that the destabilized

904
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,000
belief is true, and then they
expand it to include other

905
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,920
people in it and they
personalize it.

906
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,720
So overall, that's kind of a
great way that you take it an

907
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:35,480
idea and you prove it wrong, you
know, and then you give details

908
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,840
as to why it's wrong and then
you make it personal.

909
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:39,800
And that's what they did with
this podcast.

910
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,080
I have a few things to steal but
I want to open it up to see if

911
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,560
anybody has anything else that
made it obsession worthy for

912
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:46,920
them.
Jonathan, I just had one

913
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,440
question and that is having not
heard of Radiolab until I listen

914
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,160
to this, is that a pretty big
production company like a, do

915
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,200
they have a lot of money?
Do they have a lot of resources?

916
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:02,000
Because my take away from it was
man, they had a lot of resources

917
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,560
in this because it was a first
rate Class A production.

918
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,160
And I just thought, man, there's
a lot of resources in this.

919
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:10,600
Is that really the case,
Jonathan?

920
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,280
Yeah, they've, they've got, I
can't remember the name of who's

921
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:18,800
produces it now.
GR probably knows, but I can't

922
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:20,080
remember the name who produces
it now.

923
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,480
But yes, they have quite the
production and they've got some,

924
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,960
you know, support behind them as
well.

925
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,560
So I think they signed a
scientific something supports

926
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,480
them, but they got some grants
and stuff.

927
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,280
So they've got money to do a
production that's impressive

928
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,800
inside and out.
Yeah, that was my take away.

929
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,880
It was very impressive.
I see Ashley wants to make a

930
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,880
comment.
I think they're produced by PR

931
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,840
and could be wrong, but that's
what my guts telling me because

932
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:52,080
our local NPR plays Radiolab and
I think what they play at the

933
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,600
beginning is PRN.
But the other thing I wanted to

934
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,520
say that was so cool about this
show and this again leans more

935
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,240
to they must have some sort of
big support because just to

936
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:06,040
license the copy written music
that's in this episode would

937
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,440
take that.
For example, they had Procol

938
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,280
harems whiter shade of pale.
They had Donovan's Mellow

939
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,120
Yellow.
There was copy.

940
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,040
Written music in this episode
and I really love how they use

941
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,600
that to tell the story.
And Dr. commented she put

942
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,000
natural sciences.
I guess that's maybe who is

943
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,720
promoting it but BC had a
comment.

944
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,920
It looks like the website says
they're produced by WNYC

945
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,440
Studios.
I don't know if they're if that

946
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,040
would be owned by something
else, but that seems to be the

947
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,640
direct producer.
I think it's local NPR station

948
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,920
actually.
So Jonathan, I know you had some

949
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,160
key takeaways before we wrap up
because we've only got a couple

950
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,480
more minutes, so you wanted to
do some takeaways.

951
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:45,640
So, Jonathan, go ahead and do
that.

952
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,160
Yeah, Just a couple of quick
ones here.

953
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,640
Something that you can do, you
know, something you can steal

954
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:54,360
for your own podcast is steal.
Start with a belief that your

955
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,600
audience assumes is is always
correct.

956
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,720
You know, something that they're
assuming is right.

957
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,520
Like everybody sees the world
the same way and break that,

958
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,520
break that and really show them
why it's not the case.

959
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,080
And that's something that's
going to bring people into your

960
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,080
podcast and get them interested
and hold them throughout the

961
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:16,880
episode.
The other thing that they did

962
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,720
that I think we can steal is
they used a proof device.

963
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:25,160
So it used the prisms and the
choir to kind of prove that

964
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,880
something was the way that they
said it was.

965
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:32,280
But you can use screenshots or
DMS and client audio and you

966
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,080
know, like a live breakdown of
things or mini experiments that

967
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:39,240
you do yourself to actually
highlight and show people, not

968
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:42,080
just tell people what is
happening here.

969
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,520
And then you always want to make
the listener feel the shift.

970
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:52,720
Don't just teach the idea, but
get them to realize something

971
00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:56,520
like my sky is boring.
What is your my sky is boring

972
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,680
moment that's going to really
bring people in and and punch

973
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,120
them a little bit upside the
head with what they're

974
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,480
expecting.
And then finally, this is my big

975
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,480
take away from everything when
it comes to this podcast.

976
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:14,360
And that is certainty is boring.
When you deliver uncertainty,

977
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,680
it's much more entertaining and
it's much more noteworthy.

978
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,800
And that, you know, is
definitely something we felt in

979
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,240
this episode.
I love that, Jonathan.

980
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:29,320
So what you're saying is go find
something sort of unusual to

981
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:34,000
say, go find something that's
sort of is counter intuitive and

982
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,600
build off of that.
And, and I think we all can

983
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,120
learn from that because I think
it's easy, especially as a

984
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,560
business guy, it's easy to get
stuck in what we know.

985
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,040
It's easy to get stuck in the
the routine and the mundane, but

986
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,800
have a different angle.
And, and honestly, that's one of

987
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:48,960
the cool things about AI, you
know, we're talking about AI,

988
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,040
but that's one of the cool
things I've used AI for recently

989
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:54,640
is I've given an idea and say,
give me a different angle on

990
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,680
this, Give me a different
thought on this.

991
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:58,880
So if you're thinking about, OK,
well, my stuff's kind of

992
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,320
vanilla, no use AI, say, hey,
AI, what's a different take on

993
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:03,920
this?
And I, I don't think they use

994
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,080
this, but because this was, this
was done way back.

995
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,120
But if you're, if you're
wondering about what Jonathan

996
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,280
just said, I just think that's a
really good way to perhaps to do

997
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,760
it.
Yeah, I love that.

998
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:14,800
And the other thing that I tell
a lot of my clients to do,

999
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,240
because one of the things that I
love is when you just take

1000
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:20,240
something from the news.
It's news jacking.

1001
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:24,200
You take something from the news
and you put your own spin based

1002
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,280
on your niche.
Like what this means for this.

1003
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:30,760
Like I did the storytelling in
the Super Bowl halftime show.

1004
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,720
Like I pulled out the clips from
the Super Bowl halftime show and

1005
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:36,840
what stories were being told.
That's not what anybody else is

1006
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,000
going to look at the, you know,
halftime show and do.

1007
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,120
But because I help people tell
stories, it's what I was doing.

1008
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,160
So, you know, news jacking and
making it work for you is

1009
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,760
another great way to do that and
pull out some uncertainty in it.

1010
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,560
News jacking.
But we could have a whole

1011
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,240
discussion about news jacking.
Do you want to define that for a

1012
00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:56,440
second?
That could be on the wheel of

1013
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,600
jargon a little bit.
So news jacking, which is

1014
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,920
different than news hacking.
News jacking is when you

1015
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:06,920
actually take something that's
in the news and you use it in

1016
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,040
your own niche in a certain way,
whether it's, you know, I've

1017
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:13,160
done I Super Bowl halftime shows
are easy.

1018
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,280
Award shows are easy things that
you can pull out of them to kind

1019
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,440
of describe something in your
own niche.

1020
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,360
I Taylor Swift is an easy one
for me.

1021
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,440
I do how her lyrics mean
something, how her, you know,

1022
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,600
she can teach you a lesson in
business, all that sort of

1023
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:29,440
stuff.
So you just pull a headline and

1024
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,680
you make it work for your own
your own niche.

1025
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:37,520
And that has the built in actual
headline energy that's going to

1026
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:41,160
help you get seen more.
Yeah, and I think we all can

1027
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:43,600
learn from that because then you
ride on the coattails of

1028
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,640
information that's already out
there.

1029
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,840
And I'll tell you what, I've
seen it become very effective

1030
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,320
for people, especially in social
media.

1031
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,680
It is really a really a great
thing to do.

1032
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:54,760
Well, Jonathan, I just want to
thank you.

1033
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,000
What a great episode.
What a great choice for

1034
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,800
obsession worthy.
You do a fantastic job with

1035
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,440
these, Jonathan.
So thanks for joining us today.

1036
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,520
And whatever you do today, make
it a great day, everybody.

1037
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:05,560
We'll see you again tomorrow.