519. Monetize Your Podcast Without Big Downloads

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Marc Ronick: Good morning,

podcasters.

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Today is Monday, May the 18th,
2026 and today it's
Money

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Monday, and we're diving into
podcast monetization, from


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sponsors and affiliate links to
memberships, merch, and whether

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small podcasts can actually
make money.

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So, if you're listening
live
on Clubhouse, hit the share

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00:00:28,035 --> 00:00:31,305
button, top right-hand side of

the screen, and share it however

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Clubhouse lets you.
And if
you're catching us via

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podcast, YouTube, etc. please
share this
episode with a

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00:00:38,385 --> 00:00:41,040
fellow podcaster.
And now, give us about 30


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seconds, and we'll get things
rolling.

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Thanks for being here.

The Podcasting Morning Show is

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powered by Ironic Media, helping

podcasters launch, polish, and

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grow great shows, and by Content

Creators Accountant, helping

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creators build real business

behind their content.

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Good morning again.
Podcasting
morning show.

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Thank you so much for being
here.

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I am your host,
Mark Ronick,
and currently with me on stage,

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my co-hosts Ralp
Estep, D.R.
Fay, and BC Babbles.

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We also have our old friend

Tide, aka Nikki, joining us from

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the audience here on the virtual

stage.

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Welcome back, Nikki.
Good to see you here.

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And yes, we
will dig into
today's Money Monday.

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What this is.. look, I
don't
care who you are as a podcaster,

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I gotta think that
this is
going to be of interest to you

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today.
Let's talk all
about the

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different ways we can monetize a
podcast.

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We haven't
done that in a long
time, I think it's time before

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we do,
though.
I first want to remind you about

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our Spotlight series.

So, if you want to be featured

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on this very show, the

Podcasting Morning Show, for

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free with no strings attached,

honestly, no strings attached,

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other than you have to put in

your email when you submit, but

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we're not going to spam you, I

promise.

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What we want you to do is submit
a 62nd clip about your
show,

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something that gives people a
real feel for your
podcast,

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and then if we select it, we'll
play the clip on a
future

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episode, we'll share the things
that stood out to us,
we'll

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introduce your show to our
community of podcasters and


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creators, so all you got to do
is go to Podcasting Morning


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show.com/spotlight.com/spotlight
and submit your clip, which we


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hope that it's more, more coming
from you as the host, sharing


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about the podcast rather than
just playing a little clip of


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the show.
You could also, if you wanted

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to, if you're clever
enough,
you could do a combination.

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I'll throw this in
here, where
maybe you set up the clip for us

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and set up a little
bit about
your show, and then play the

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clip, so we'll see if
anybody
heeds that call, but we are

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starting to get some more

submissions, we need more

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because we really want to make

this a thing, so submit yours

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today at Podcasting Morning

show.com/spotlight All right, so

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like I said, it is Money Monday,

and that means Ralph is going

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to lead the charge, and I
believe
this is also a mailbag

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edition.
But Ralph, I'm going to hand it

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off to you.
Let us know what.. what are we

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doing today?
Ralph Estep Jr: Very good.

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So,
what we're going to do
today is we're going to talk

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about
monetization, and I want
to start by going through some

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real
money questions that
podcasts are asking right now,

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and I
think this topic really
matters, because, like you said,

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Mark,
every podcaster
eventually asks some version of

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the same
question.
How do I make this show

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sustainable?
Now, that
could mean landing

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sponsors, might be some
affiliate income,
it might be

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membership, merch, live events.
Hey, nobody thinks
about live

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events, but that's one coaching
courses, selling
your own

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products and services, or maybe
simply figuring out how
to

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cover your hook, and because a
lot of people say, "Well, I


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just do this for a hobby.
Well, great.

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Well, how about to talk
about
how to cover your costs, how to

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cover your editing costs,
your
software costs, equipment, and

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time.
So today we walk
through a set

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of money mailbag questions, and
they're all
focused on podcast

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monetization, and I want this to
be
interactive, so if you're

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on Clubhouse, jump into the
chat,
raise your hand, share

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your experience.
If you've made money
from your

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podcast, I want to hear that as
well.

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If you
haven't, that's okay
too.

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Let's talk about what you can do

first.

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And if money and podcasting
still feels
confusing,

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awkward, or out of reach, that's
exactly why we're
having this

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conversation today.
So we're going to talk about


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what small podcasters can focus
on to be creative and still


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bring the business side.
So, Mark, if you want to get to

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our
first question, you can
read that if you would like,

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that'd
be great.
Marc Ronick: You got it.

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Yeah, I
was totally unprepared
here, even though we talked

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about it,
but there.
You go, just a little side note

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for everybody.
I'm a
little distracted today.

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My wife, I mentioned on Friday,
her
health hasn't been the

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best, and it's taken another
turn.

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Uh, she
look, it's nothing
life-threatening again.

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So, I
just..
I don't want to put it out there

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that you know, and
make people
more concerned than they need to

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be.
But she's not
doing great.

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It's been a big distraction,
she's actually in
the hospital

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right now, in good spirits, and
overall I will say
good

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health, but there are some
concerns that we're dealing


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with, so it's my mind is a
little bit all over the place,


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so bear with me, please.
And with that, this first

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question
in the mail bag here,
let me grab it.

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This comes from Jeff in

Albuquerque.

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Jeff says I only get 30 to 50
downloads per
episode.

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Do I need to hit a magic number
like 1500 listeners
before I

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can start making money from my
podcast?

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Ralph will
obviously start
with you on this.

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Ralph Estep Jr: Yeah, I think

the thing you got to remember is

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there's no magic number where a
podcast suddenly becomes

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monetizable, and it's

interesting that you ask this

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question, because when I first

started in podcasting a while

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back, I heard this magic number:

you got to have 10,000

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downloads, and I'll never forget

the first month I had 10,000

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downloads, and I said to a

mentor of mine, I said, 'Hey, I

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got 10,000 downloads, he says,

'But is that per episode or per

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month, I'm like, dog gone, it, I

thought I had reached the, I

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reached the threshold, Marc
Ronick: the magic number.

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Ralph Estep Jr: Yeah, it's

interesting, but at 30 to 50

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downloads per episode, I'm going

to say this traditional what

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they call CPM probably aren't

going to be the best fit,

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because definitely not.
Yeah,
the math just isn't

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going to work, so if you're
thinking
about, hey, I'm going

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to go into one of the networks,
and we'll
talk about, we've

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got another question later in
the show about
networks and

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automatic feeds and all that
sort of thing, but if
that's

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your plan, I think you need to
abandon that.

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But here's
the thing, a small
show can still make money if the

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audience
is focused, if
they're loyal, and they're

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connected to a clear
niche,
and that's what they say,

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there's gold in those hills,

that's exactly what we're

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talking about here.
So, if
you're just getting

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started, the better monetization
options
might include listener

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support.
You can do buy me a coffee, you

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can do Patreon, you can do
PayPal.

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There's all kinds of
listener
support things.

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Affiliate links work great,

maybe you've got a small digital

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product, even a paid community,
a workshop, coaching, or

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services.
I want to say this.


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The key question is not only how
many listeners do I have, it's


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who are they, what do they do,
and what value can I provide.


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That's really my answer to this
one, Mark.

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As we get into the
community
discussion, but I think we got

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to start there.

It's not about how many

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listeners do you have, it's who
are they, what do they need,

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and what value can I provide to
them?

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I think that's really the key to
this question.

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Marc Ronick: Yeah, and you're

echoing something that I know

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Sid has become very passionate

about, right?

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Sid, because he took his
smaller, quote unquote,
sized

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audience and was able to
monetize it with sponsorships,


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and he talked about this on
Empowered Podcasting Live last


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Wednesday, and that those were
basically the same three


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questions he said you've got to
be able to answer with, you


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know, clarity and confidence if
you really want to monetize your

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podcast.
So, yeah, I appreciate you

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sharing, Ralph Estep Jr: and
Mark, even
above monetization,

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if you want to grow your show,
you got to
know those things,

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you've got to know who your
audience is, what
they're

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looking for, and what value
bring to them, regardless
of

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whether you monetize.
So, if you're listening right

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now, or
you're watching this,
and you say, Ralph, I have no

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interest
in monetizing, this
is important to grow your show

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as well,
because I'm sure you
want it to grow.

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Marc Ronick: And, Tide, I saw

you put something in the chat,

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would you share it here on

stage, Nikki: yeah.

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No problem.
I was
thinking, as far as the

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monetization piece goes, you

know, thinking about what your

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audience actually desires, and

that's going to be a question

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that you can answer internally.


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You can also do some, of course,
research externally online, but

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most of the stuff you already
know, because you're in the


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content space, you already know
internally what people are


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thinking, what they feel is
hurting them in life, what's


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holding them back, what's
causing them to fail in life.


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You already know, because you're
a subject matter expert.

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So, I
think that that answer
is going to come internally, but

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as far
as like what you can
stir within the person, a lot of

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people come
from a desperate
place, so they, and I know I've

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been there, so
if you have a
podcast or a blog or anything

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else, or maybe
you're just
talking to someone, maybe you

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have a great product
to sell.
How many times have we all gone

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to someone and tried to
push a
product or push something that

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we wanted to sell to them?

Maybe, and it didn't have to be

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something they bought, it could
be an opinion, maybe we wanted

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them to, you know, agree with

our opinion, and then all of a

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sudden we can feel that

immediate resistance coming from

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them.
So, if, if somebody's
trying

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to sell you something, you
personally think about how
you

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feel when they try to push
something on you, you


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immediately resist.
So, are you coming from an

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honest place?
Are
you coming from a place

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that's genuine?
Are you coming from a
place

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that, hey, I have this thing,
and I think it could
really

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help you, and being relaxed
about it, as opposed to
like

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trying to push it and constantly
make $1 and I'm going
to make

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money off of you, and all that
kind of stuff, because
if

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you're putting out that kind of
energy, it's going to be


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received as such, and people are
going to resist that.

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Marc Ronick: Thank you, Nikki,

live from the classroom, I

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suppose, which is awesome.
Thank
you for being here,

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Ralph.
Did you want to respond?

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Ralph Estep Jr: Yeah, I think

Nikki nails it on that one.

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Yeah, and it's that salesy

versus providing value, Nikki.

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I think is what you were really
getting to if you use a

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product, if you endorse a
product that's
a product that

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you don't need to sell, because
you're going to be
showing

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your audience value.
I think that's the difference,

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and
I think if you're coming
at this from a place of

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desperation,
it's a good time
to stop.

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See, I love what somebody said.
They
said when you start a

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podcast, you have no audience
and you
have trust, but what

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happens over time is you start
to break
down that trust.

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If you're constantly promoting
products
that you don't use

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yourself or that you're just
trying to sell
somebody on

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something, you're going to break
that trust, and
that's the

215
00:11:03,204 --> 00:11:06,045
cool thing about content
creation podcasting, is
that

216
00:11:06,045 --> 00:11:09,138
you build trust with your
audience, and that's something


217
00:11:09,146 --> 00:11:11,397
you have to really honor and
respect.

218
00:11:11,397 --> 00:11:14,520
And so, if you're
thinking
about products, that's why I

219
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,070
don't like the CPM model,

because I do a Christian-based

220
00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:19,710
finance podcast.
Could you
imagine what kind of

221
00:11:19,710 --> 00:11:22,624
crazy ads could be on my show if
I just
let it go out there to

222
00:11:22,624 --> 00:11:25,028
one of those markets where you
just
throw on whatever you

223
00:11:25,028 --> 00:11:26,936
want.
I could have people that are


224
00:11:26,944 --> 00:11:29,618
really into me, they trust me,
and all of a sudden this ad


225
00:11:29,626 --> 00:11:32,120
comes out of left field for
something, because if I was


226
00:11:32,128 --> 00:11:35,288
desperate, I could do that, but
I respect my audience enough not

227
00:11:35,288 --> 00:11:36,890

to do that.
So, great point, Nikki.

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00:11:37,580 --> 00:11:39,530
Marc Ronick: So, should we,

Ralph, should we talk a little

229
00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:45,550
bit about what does a smaller

podcast do when you know smaller

230
00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:49,018
meaning download numbers?
What
does a smaller podcast do

231
00:11:49,018 --> 00:11:54,053
in place of, say, the CPM model?
I
mean, look, we've, we've

232
00:11:54,053 --> 00:11:57,010
talked to Sid, and we will
continue to
talk with Sid

233
00:11:57,010 --> 00:12:02,446
about the fact that, yes, you
can get sponsors
even with a

234
00:12:02,446 --> 00:12:06,420
smaller-sized podcast, but at
the same time,
there are

235
00:12:06,420 --> 00:12:09,846
definitely other areas people
can explore, as far as


236
00:12:09,854 --> 00:12:13,216
monetizing early on, like with
as a new podcast that might not

237
00:12:13,216 --> 00:12:16,020
have a lot of listeners out of
the gate, or even one that's


238
00:12:16,028 --> 00:12:19,455
been around for a while that
just still has that more niche


239
00:12:19,463 --> 00:12:21,516
audience.
So, let's talk about some of

240
00:12:21,516 --> 00:12:23,240
those ways to do it.

What's the first thing you'd

241
00:12:23,300 --> 00:12:24,620
suggest?
Ralph Estep Jr: Well, I think


242
00:12:24,628 --> 00:12:26,775
you got to do two things.
I think you have to have a


243
00:12:26,783 --> 00:12:29,130
strategy of monetization and a
strategy of growth, because I


244
00:12:29,138 --> 00:12:31,112
don't want anybody to
misunderstand me.

245
00:12:31,112 --> 00:12:35,036
Your podcast
is easier to
monetize when it grows, that's

246
00:12:35,036 --> 00:12:36,980
just the truth.

Let's just not forget about

247
00:12:37,070 --> 00:12:38,702
that.
You need to grow your


248
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:41,666
audience, you need to grow, but
when you're first getting


249
00:12:41,674 --> 00:12:44,135
started, affiliate links are
great for that, because if


250
00:12:44,143 --> 00:12:46,540
you're in a niche, what are the
products you're using?

251
00:12:46,540 --> 00:12:49,164
What are
the products you can
go out there and reach out to

252
00:12:49,164 --> 00:12:52,060
people of
the products you use
and say, "Hey, can I get some

253
00:12:52,060 --> 00:12:54,420
kind of
referral?
It doesn't cost them anything,

254
00:12:54,420 --> 00:12:55,980
and it doesn't cost
you
anything.

255
00:12:55,980 --> 00:12:58,352
You know, a lot of people -
we'll talk about this a
little

256
00:12:58,352 --> 00:13:00,959
bit later, but merch and all
stuff that can cost you
money,

257
00:13:00,959 --> 00:13:04,140
maybe a workshop, maybe a small
product, maybe a simple


258
00:13:04,148 --> 00:13:06,978
service, and listen, like I
said, the beginning, maybe


259
00:13:06,986 --> 00:13:10,190
listener support, put that, buy
me a coffee, I love buy me a


260
00:13:10,198 --> 00:13:13,275
coffee, I don't get a lot of
response from it on my


261
00:13:13,283 --> 00:13:16,044
particular shows, to be very
candid with you, but it's there,

262
00:13:16,044 --> 00:13:18,858

and it's a drip or drab, hey,
that's a funny play on words,


263
00:13:18,866 --> 00:13:21,882
right, it's a dripper drap, but
anyway, so that's the things I


264
00:13:21,890 --> 00:13:24,233
would start, but, but I think
you have to really, you have a


265
00:13:24,241 --> 00:13:27,600
clear mindset of I've got to do
two things, I've got to look for

266
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,308

basic support, and I don't
forget about growing your


267
00:13:30,316 --> 00:13:33,200
audience, I don't want to get
overshadowed on that, Mark.

268
00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:37,610
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and all

right, so I think BC wanted to

269
00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:39,950
chime in on something too, so

I'll bite my tongue, go ahead,

270
00:13:40,010 --> 00:13:43,540
BC, BC Babbles: yeah, so now one

caveat I wanted to add here is

271
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,750
that I think when people think

monetize, also they think

272
00:13:46,810 --> 00:13:50,620
specifically, okay, I bring home

money for myself for me to use

273
00:13:50,710 --> 00:13:54,378
as I want to use the money, but
I think we could agree here

274
00:13:54,378 --> 00:13:57,883
that when you start to monetize
the
show, what you want to do

275
00:13:57,883 --> 00:14:01,905
first is probably reinvest it
right
into the show, so my

276
00:14:01,905 --> 00:14:06,946
question for Ralph would be, do
you have
a particular say

277
00:14:06,946 --> 00:14:10,131
percentage past the covering of
the show's
expenses, where

278
00:14:10,131 --> 00:14:14,332
you'd say, okay, now start to
bring that's when
you start

279
00:14:14,332 --> 00:14:17,500
having heavy money for yourself
to bring home as you
want to

280
00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:19,962
use it, as opposed to just
reinvesting into the show
to

281
00:14:19,962 --> 00:14:23,366
make sure that it keeps
operating, Ralph Estep Jr:

282
00:14:23,366 --> 00:14:24,938
that's a very
good question,
PC.

283
00:14:24,938 --> 00:14:26,865
And it depends on what you're
doing.

284
00:14:26,865 --> 00:14:29,750
If
you're doing this as a
full-time gig, I think that's a

285
00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:32,474
harder
decision to make.
But I think if you're doing this

286
00:14:32,474 --> 00:14:35,789
as a sideline,
I think you put
100% of it back into the show.

287
00:14:35,789 --> 00:14:39,025
I don't think you
take
anything for yourself until it

288
00:14:39,025 --> 00:14:41,770
reaches a point where it's at

least covering expenses, and

289
00:14:42,010 --> 00:14:44,293
you're adding to some marketing,

and all that sort of thing,

290
00:14:44,293 --> 00:14:45,868
bc.
So, if you're just getting


291
00:14:45,876 --> 00:14:48,230
started, and that's another
reason when I work with content

292
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:50,640
creators, I tell them, don't
quit your full-time job when


293
00:14:50,648 --> 00:14:53,418
you're first getting started,
you know, do this as a sideline,

294
00:14:53,418 --> 00:14:56,310

do this as a side gig, do this
as an extra thing.

295
00:14:56,310 --> 00:14:59,500
So, if it's
an extra thing, I
think you cover your expenses,

296
00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:00,820
if.
There's
a little bit left

297
00:15:00,820 --> 00:15:02,378
over.
I'm putting that back into


298
00:15:02,386 --> 00:15:04,266
marketing.
I'm putting that back into maybe

299
00:15:04,266 --> 00:15:06,990
some gear that would
make me
be able to be more seen.

300
00:15:07,170 --> 00:15:09,300
So, honestly, you know, you

probably don't like the answer,

301
00:15:09,690 --> 00:15:12,450
but I say, for the first six

months to a year, don't take

302
00:15:12,510 --> 00:15:14,786
anything for yourself.
Once you
get past that and the

303
00:15:14,786 --> 00:15:17,559
so is established, then you can
start
to look at paying

304
00:15:17,559 --> 00:15:19,437
yourself.
And listen, I'm a huge proponent

305
00:15:19,437 --> 00:15:22,646
of
pay yourself first, but I
think you've got to get to a


306
00:15:22,654 --> 00:15:24,767
sustainable level of income
before you really should think


307
00:15:24,775 --> 00:15:26,354
about doing that.
BC Babbles: Awesome.

308
00:15:26,354 --> 00:15:28,169
Thank you.
Marc Ronick: Interesting.

309
00:15:28,169 --> 00:15:31,416
Okay,
cool.
Yeah, so even if they've got a

310
00:15:31,416 --> 00:15:34,190
little bit of income
coming
in, Ralph, you think that

311
00:15:34,460 --> 00:15:37,570
initially they got to first make

sure they're investing into

312
00:15:37,570 --> 00:15:40,640
the show into the business
before
they start paying

313
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,055
themselves?
Ralph Estep Jr: Yeah, I just


314
00:15:42,063 --> 00:15:43,855
believe that, Mark.
And I've been doing this kind of

315
00:15:43,855 --> 00:15:46,306
thing
for 30 years.
Yeah, and even with regular

316
00:15:46,306 --> 00:15:49,725
business
non-content creators,
I think the best strategy is to

317
00:15:49,725 --> 00:15:51,900
reinvest
it.
Because here's the real reason I

318
00:15:51,900 --> 00:15:54,642
say that, Mark, is
content
creator income is like a roller

319
00:15:54,642 --> 00:15:56,686
coaster.
There is one
month you might

320
00:15:56,686 --> 00:15:59,285
get a sponsor, you might make
some money, you
sell some

321
00:15:59,285 --> 00:16:01,748
merchandise, and then the next
month it's literally
crickets,

322
00:16:01,748 --> 00:16:04,545
and what worries me is because
what happens is when
people

323
00:16:04,545 --> 00:16:07,715
start to take money from their
show, their lifestyle
grows,

324
00:16:07,715 --> 00:16:11,513
and once your lifestyle grows,
you get a bigger house, a


325
00:16:11,521 --> 00:16:14,830
different car, you buy gear, you
get an editor, you do all those

326
00:16:14,830 --> 00:16:16,895
type of things.
Well, until you've got a

327
00:16:16,895 --> 00:16:19,385
sustainable level
of
consistent income, I think you

328
00:16:19,385 --> 00:16:21,790
got to be really careful
with
that, and that's why I say put

329
00:16:21,790 --> 00:16:24,485
it back into the business,

grow the business side of it,

330
00:16:24,485 --> 00:16:27,526
and then once it's sustainable,
once you see consistency in

331
00:16:27,526 --> 00:16:30,858
your numbers, then you could
start to
take some money from

332
00:16:30,858 --> 00:16:33,930
it Marc Ronick: Dave in the chat

actually has said that Buy Me

333
00:16:33,930 --> 00:16:35,510
a Coffee has been great for him.



334
00:16:35,518 --> 00:16:39,235
He says that he gets a few of
these coffees from his community

335
00:16:39,235 --> 00:16:40,772

each week.
Very cool.

336
00:16:40,772 --> 00:16:44,840
Yeah, I mean, my experience with
Buy Me
a Coffee is similar to

337
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,024
Ralph's.
We don't really see much, even


338
00:16:47,032 --> 00:16:49,530
though we keep asking at
Podcasting Morning


339
00:16:49,538 --> 00:16:53,579
show.com/support If you want to
support this show, and yeah, we

340
00:16:53,579 --> 00:16:55,973
don't seem to get a lot of
those.

341
00:16:55,973 --> 00:17:00,821
And quite frankly, in all
of
my 20 some years of podcasting,

342
00:17:00,821 --> 00:17:04,617
I personally, I'm
not saying
it doesn't work, hear me

343
00:17:04,617 --> 00:17:10,145
clearly, but for me, the

donate with PayPal link or buy

344
00:17:10,145 --> 00:17:13,970
me a coffee with buy me a

coffee, those things generally

345
00:17:13,970 --> 00:17:17,220
don't do much for me.
I have
not, no matter what

346
00:17:17,220 --> 00:17:20,351
podcast I've done, I
occasionally get a
little, a

347
00:17:20,351 --> 00:17:25,031
couple bucks here and there, but
in my experience, I
don't use

348
00:17:25,031 --> 00:17:28,400
those expecting them to be a big
revenue stream.

349
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:29,990
Ralph Estep Jr: Hey Mark, let

me, let me flip that around for

350
00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:31,358
a second.
I know Dr. wants to
comment,

351
00:17:31,358 --> 00:17:33,602
but let me flip it around,
because I think I, it'd
be

352
00:17:33,602 --> 00:17:35,998
good to talk about this.
What would make you financially

353
00:17:35,998 --> 00:17:38,525
support a small podcast?
Let's ask the community that,

354
00:17:38,525 --> 00:17:41,483
like, if
you are a podcaster,
what would make you support

355
00:17:41,483 --> 00:17:43,941
someone else's
podcast?
I don't want to interrupt you,

356
00:17:43,941 --> 00:17:46,265
y'r, but I don't
want to
forget to mention that too.

357
00:17:46,265 --> 00:17:48,485
Marc Ronick: And by the way,

Dave has shared that he gets

358
00:17:48,485 --> 00:17:54,395
$7,000 in a year from that

alone, from Buy Me a Coffee,

359
00:17:54,395 --> 00:17:55,443
which, Ralph Estep Jr: that's
great.


360
00:17:55,451 --> 00:17:57,683
Yeah, that's really good, Marc
Ronick: nothing to sneeze
at.

361
00:17:57,683 --> 00:18:00,892
Yeah, Dave, I was curious if
you're willing to share, and I


362
00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:03,718
think that's usually publicly
shown on Patreon, but I don't


363
00:18:03,726 --> 00:18:06,674
know about buy me a coffee.
I'm curious, how many

364
00:18:06,674 --> 00:18:10,160
subscribers,
because it helps
me put that into context, right?

365
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:15,048
Like maybe
it maybe gives me a
little bit of a benchmark, like,

366
00:18:15,048 --> 00:18:18,960
okay, if I
can get these this
many people to buy me a coffee

367
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,839
regularly, I
could make about
this amount of money, just

368
00:18:21,839 --> 00:18:25,109
curious about that,
but let's
find out at some answers to

369
00:18:25,109 --> 00:18:27,855
Ralph's question, and
while
we're waiting for that, Dr. you

370
00:18:27,855 --> 00:18:29,429
wanted to add something.
D.R.

371
00:18:29,429 --> 00:18:34,385
Fay: Yeah, I think the buy
me
a coffee thing is a, it's a

372
00:18:34,385 --> 00:18:39,365
perception thing, for instance,
I have a seven figure business

373
00:18:39,365 --> 00:18:46,190
coach as a client, it would not
look good for her to have a buy

374
00:18:46,190 --> 00:18:52,520
me a coffee call to action, so

she's a seven figure business

375
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,463
coach.
So, do you know what I'm


376
00:18:54,471 --> 00:18:55,778
saying?
Ralph Estep Jr: I agree with


377
00:18:55,786 --> 00:18:58,520
you, Dr. Because I think she's
selling a product, though, and


378
00:18:58,528 --> 00:19:01,959
she's selling coaching, which is
the best thing to sell, if you


379
00:19:01,967 --> 00:19:05,094
hear nothing else I say today.
The best thing you can sell is


380
00:19:05,102 --> 00:19:07,728
your D.R.
Fay: own, yourself, your
own

381
00:19:07,728 --> 00:19:11,334
product.
Yeah, and I'm talking now to a

382
00:19:11,334 --> 00:19:16,166
potential
client who is, you
know, masters in pharmacology,

383
00:19:16,166 --> 00:19:20,666
so she's not
hurting for money
either.

384
00:19:20,666 --> 00:19:24,494
So, I mean, it, it's a
perception
thing, you really

385
00:19:24,494 --> 00:19:29,903
have to weigh, you know, what
you do, who you
are with the

386
00:19:29,903 --> 00:19:34,078
whole, please give me money,
please, you know,
charity kind

387
00:19:34,078 --> 00:19:36,656
of thing.
Marc Ronick: Well, and as we


388
00:19:36,664 --> 00:19:39,946
know, Ralph often encourages,
encourages us not to say donate

389
00:19:39,946 --> 00:19:44,602
and please give us money, but
more support the show is the way

390
00:19:44,602 --> 00:19:48,010

that he suggests it.
Yeah, let me just ask this.

391
00:19:48,010 --> 00:19:51,984
Then, is it a
bad look, even
if we're a smaller show, to be

392
00:19:51,984 --> 00:19:55,202
asking for
handouts?
Does that, because I know that

393
00:19:55,202 --> 00:19:57,928
there are podcasters
out there
that feel weird about it, no

394
00:19:57,928 --> 00:20:01,275
matter how big or small, D.R.
Fay: the size of the.

395
00:20:01,275 --> 00:20:05,600
Show
matters, I think the the
host, what position the host is

396
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,120
in
matters regarding the buy
me a coffee thing.

397
00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:12,000
Marc Ronick: Yeah, but and I

think about it, though, and I

398
00:20:12,060 --> 00:20:16,983
think about, okay, so yeah, I'm
not a seven figure business,

399
00:20:16,983 --> 00:20:22,050
but I have a business, I don't
want
to call it high ticket

400
00:20:22,050 --> 00:20:26,420
items, but they're certainly the

services I sell are not a few

401
00:20:26,690 --> 00:20:28,760
bucks either, right?
Like, you
got to invest a

402
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,330
little bit of money if you want
to, you want
help starting a

403
00:20:32,330 --> 00:20:36,113
podcast, growing a podcast, etc.
So, like, is it
a bad look for

404
00:20:36,113 --> 00:20:39,975
somebody like me?
I don't know, but I know that a

405
00:20:39,975 --> 00:20:42,100
lot of podcasters struggle with
it.

406
00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:45,027
BC, go ahead BC Babbles: to
branch off of Dr.
point.

407
00:20:45,027 --> 00:20:48,585
Is it important for us to also
consider whether or not the


408
00:20:48,593 --> 00:20:52,369
podcast itself is a separate
venture from what the person


409
00:20:52,377 --> 00:20:56,085
does mainstream?
So, if this was something, if

410
00:20:56,085 --> 00:21:00,693
Mark did something
aside from
Ronic, Ironic Media, if he did

411
00:21:00,693 --> 00:21:02,429
something else as a

profession, and this was

412
00:21:02,849 --> 00:21:05,954
completely separate, would that
also alter the perception of

413
00:21:05,954 --> 00:21:09,869
him utilizing Buy Me a Coffee,

Venmo, or whatever it was to get

414
00:21:10,379 --> 00:21:14,429
some kind of audience-provided

funds to help the show go?

415
00:21:15,570 --> 00:21:18,720
Marc Ronick: Yeah.
Well, is that
a question or a

416
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:19,800
statement?
Just making sure.

417
00:21:20,010 --> 00:21:23,514
BC Babbles: Question, yeah.

Question Marc Ronick: for me, BC

418
00:21:23,514 --> 00:21:25,855
Babbles: for well, for Dr. As

well.

419
00:21:25,855 --> 00:21:29,764
If the podcast itself is a
separate venture from what the


420
00:21:29,772 --> 00:21:32,845
host does mainstream, in your
perspective, would that change


421
00:21:32,853 --> 00:21:36,109
the view of someone then asking
for buy me a coffee or a pastry?

422
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:40,582
D.R.
Fay: Yeah, I think it
depends

423
00:21:40,582 --> 00:21:44,770
on how much the host is
revealing about themselves


424
00:21:44,778 --> 00:21:48,307
during that show.
If it's a separate kind of

425
00:21:48,307 --> 00:21:53,458
thing, let's
say my seven
figure business coach did a show

426
00:21:53,458 --> 00:21:56,653
all about
railroads, but she
keeps mentioning, well, you

427
00:21:56,653 --> 00:22:00,787
know, I
have a very thriving
business, a business coach, I

428
00:22:00,787 --> 00:22:04,330
think that
gives into
perception about BC Babbles:

429
00:22:04,330 --> 00:22:05,012
fair, D.R.
Fay: you know.

430
00:22:05,012 --> 00:22:09,240
Well, you
don't, you don't
need my money, Marc Ronick: all

431
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:10,740
right.
And so,
with that, Ralph,

432
00:22:10,740 --> 00:22:12,355
where do you want to go from
here?

433
00:22:12,355 --> 00:22:14,490
Do we keep
going?
Do you want to me to move on to

434
00:22:14,490 --> 00:22:15,620
the next?
Yeah, Ralph Estep Jr: let's move

435
00:22:15,620 --> 00:22:17,967
on to
our next question mark.
Marc Ronick: All right, let's do

436
00:22:17,967 --> 00:22:19,679

it.
Let me grab it out of here.

437
00:22:21,539 --> 00:22:25,115
And this comes from Kathy in my
hometown, Maryland.

438
00:22:25,115 --> 00:22:29,020
My podcast gets around 500
downloads per
episode.

439
00:22:29,020 --> 00:22:33,599
What's the smartest first
monetization move,
sponsors,

440
00:22:33,599 --> 00:22:36,763
affiliate links, Patreon, or
selling my own
product?

441
00:22:36,763 --> 00:22:39,499
And I guess we've kind of danced
around this a little
bit.

442
00:22:40,250 --> 00:22:41,530
Ralph Estep Jr: Yeah, we don't

need to spend a lot of time

443
00:22:41,620 --> 00:22:43,930
here, but here's the first

thing: 500 downloads per episode

444
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,780
is really good, so give yourself

a pat on the back, that is an

445
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,198
accomplishment.
That said, CPM
is probably

446
00:22:49,198 --> 00:22:53,281
still going to be limited, and
sponsors might not
be the

447
00:22:53,281 --> 00:22:56,386
highest paying first move.
I think what I would do
here

448
00:22:56,386 --> 00:22:59,400
is actually do what I call some
monetization experiments,
and

449
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,478
a lot of people try this.
Here's where you get into


450
00:23:02,486 --> 00:23:04,650
trouble, and I found myself in
the same position.

451
00:23:04,650 --> 00:23:07,080
Is I try to
do 10 things at
once.

452
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,832
So, here's my advice for this
person.

453
00:23:08,832 --> 00:23:10,606
I
apologize, Mark.
What was her name again?

454
00:23:10,606 --> 00:23:12,644
I apologize, Marc Ronick: Kathy.
Ralph Estep Jr: Kathy, Kathy,


455
00:23:12,652 --> 00:23:15,290
here's what I would do.
I would start with one thing,

456
00:23:15,290 --> 00:23:18,611
and maybe
an affiliate link
for a particular product that's

457
00:23:18,611 --> 00:23:20,279
relevant and fits your
audience.

458
00:23:21,089 --> 00:23:24,574
Do that only do that for 90 120
days.

459
00:23:24,574 --> 00:23:27,547
Don't try to attend other
things, because that's a


460
00:23:27,555 --> 00:23:29,455
promise.
Podcast is, we, we get in this

461
00:23:29,455 --> 00:23:31,369
vacuum of I'm gonna try

everything, I'm gonna try

462
00:23:31,489 --> 00:23:33,259
everything, and next thing you

know, we don't know what's

463
00:23:33,349 --> 00:23:35,149
working, because we're throwing
so much stuff with the wall,

464
00:23:35,179 --> 00:23:36,519
we're not sure what's sticking.


465
00:23:36,527 --> 00:23:40,154
So, I would start by doing one
thing, so maybe an affiliate


466
00:23:40,162 --> 00:23:43,705
link, you can do the listener
support thing, maybe a


467
00:23:43,713 --> 00:23:46,053
membership.
Those are strong ways to both

468
00:23:46,053 --> 00:23:49,153
grow the emotional
connection
to your show and also grow your

469
00:23:49,153 --> 00:23:50,871
audience.
And again,
I'm going to

470
00:23:50,871 --> 00:23:54,104
champion what Dr said, selling
your own product
is a great

471
00:23:54,104 --> 00:23:57,571
thing to do here, but again, it
depends on the nature
of your

472
00:23:57,571 --> 00:23:59,815
podcast.
If you can do consultations, a

473
00:23:59,815 --> 00:24:04,429
workshop, a
course, all of
those things are going to be

474
00:24:04,429 --> 00:24:08,873
your ideal first
moves, and I
say first at 500 Listen, a lot

475
00:24:08,873 --> 00:24:11,009
of us would be
like 500 per
episode, fantastic.

476
00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:14,189
Let me get into some of that,

but selling your own product is

477
00:24:14,339 --> 00:24:17,039
really the thing to go, but

don't chase after the CPM yet.

478
00:24:17,219 --> 00:24:19,019
So that's what I would do right
now.

479
00:24:19,769 --> 00:24:21,979
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and listen,

just to help people put this in

480
00:24:22,069 --> 00:24:26,989
perspective, selling your own

product, your own service, the

481
00:24:27,169 --> 00:24:31,515
reason why a lot of us push that

as an option, and especially

482
00:24:31,515 --> 00:24:35,804
as a potentially one of your
first
options to monetize, is

483
00:24:35,804 --> 00:24:38,797
because if you stop and think
about it
for a second, if you

484
00:24:38,797 --> 00:24:41,409
have the quote unquote small
audience,
right?

485
00:24:41,409 --> 00:24:46,101
Like, in my experience, I've
found that roughly around
5%

486
00:24:46,101 --> 00:24:49,989
of your overall audience are
actually going to act, they're


487
00:24:49,997 --> 00:24:53,199
actually going to buy things
from you or from your sponsors,

488
00:24:53,590 --> 00:24:54,970
Ralph Estep Jr: and that's

actually a big number, because

489
00:24:55,210 --> 00:24:58,064
statistics show around 3% Marc
Ronick: Yeah, I was..

490
00:24:58,064 --> 00:24:59,469
I
was.. it's.. it depends,
right?

491
00:24:59,769 --> 00:25:01,479
I've.
Seen it for me personally,
in

492
00:25:01,479 --> 00:25:04,037
my experience, up to five.
It's funny you say that, because

493
00:25:04,037 --> 00:25:05,975

I was hesitating, I was
thinking about maybe saying

494
00:25:05,975 --> 00:25:08,879
three, but in
my experience,
it's been like around five.

495
00:25:08,879 --> 00:25:13,385
And if you think
about it for
a second, even if, even if you

496
00:25:13,385 --> 00:25:17,456
have 1020,
listeners, and they
are loyal listeners, and they

497
00:25:17,456 --> 00:25:21,167
are
downloading and listening
every week, or whatever your

498
00:25:21,167 --> 00:25:25,681
cadence
is, you get just one
person to buy that $500 that

499
00:25:25,681 --> 00:25:29,599
$1,000
service that you offer.
Well, that's a pretty good month

500
00:25:29,599 --> 00:25:30,979
for
you all of a sudden,
right?

501
00:25:31,039 --> 00:25:34,249
Like, you've made some

significant money, whereas maybe

502
00:25:34,399 --> 00:25:38,089
starting with an affiliate

program, although I do encourage

503
00:25:38,239 --> 00:25:40,959
that, because I think it's the

easiest way to get started,

504
00:25:42,069 --> 00:25:44,769
you're only going to get maybe a

few bucks, depending on the

505
00:25:44,769 --> 00:25:48,609
affiliate relationship, in

return for making that sale.

506
00:25:48,609 --> 00:25:52,263
So that's why we always
encourage,
think about a

507
00:25:52,263 --> 00:25:55,545
product or service that you can
sell to your
audience, because

508
00:25:55,545 --> 00:25:58,489
there's a much bigger profit
margin, a much
bigger sale

509
00:25:58,489 --> 00:26:02,044
that can be made in that way.
Ralph Estep Jr: Yeah, because


510
00:26:02,052 --> 00:26:04,674
you could do bonus content,
which let me ask the room, has


511
00:26:04,682 --> 00:26:07,535
anybody here paid for bonus
content, uh, creator membership

512
00:26:07,535 --> 00:26:10,162
or some sort of digital product
from a podcast?

513
00:26:10,162 --> 00:26:12,793
Or I'd love to
hear what you
have to say, and what motivated

514
00:26:12,793 --> 00:26:16,049
you to do that,
and what did
they say to say, "Oh, I got to

515
00:26:16,049 --> 00:26:19,104
do this right now.
Marc Ronick: I've definitely


516
00:26:19,112 --> 00:26:23,390
purchased bonus episodes of one
of, like, my favorite shows,


517
00:26:23,398 --> 00:26:27,938
when I am an active religious
listener to a podcast, and then

518
00:26:27,938 --> 00:26:32,115
I find out, like, maybe they've
got this one off bonus episode


519
00:26:32,123 --> 00:26:35,585
that's an extension of something
that they've been talking about

520
00:26:35,585 --> 00:26:38,857
that I've been really engaged
with, and I'm going to want to


521
00:26:38,865 --> 00:26:41,800
hear that, and as long as it's
whatever I consider reasonably


522
00:26:41,808 --> 00:26:44,628
priced.
It, I'm not going to hesitate to

523
00:26:44,628 --> 00:26:48,518
purchase that
extended
episode, that bonus episode, but

524
00:26:48,518 --> 00:26:53,770
yeah, I am not shy.

I will be happy to do that if

525
00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:57,190
it's a podcast that entertains

me or that helps me solve

526
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,890
problems I'm looking to solve.

Dr, go ahead.

527
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,154
D.R.
Fay: I actually pay for


528
00:27:03,162 --> 00:27:07,650
several different newsletters
that I get an education from.


529
00:27:07,658 --> 00:27:15,342
Substack is a great place for
that, and my I'm always on a


530
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:21,234
continuing education basis, and
Chris Stone is one of them.

531
00:27:21,234 --> 00:27:27,260
My
pen pivot is another one.
I mean, I, I am constantly

532
00:27:27,260 --> 00:27:31,430
paying
for really good
newsletters that I am

533
00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:35,258
continuously learning from.
Marc Ronick: There's no right or

534
00:27:35,258 --> 00:27:38,350

wrong answer here.
Dr. Have you purchased anything

535
00:27:38,350 --> 00:27:43,298
specific,
like any podcast
content before, like bonus

536
00:27:43,298 --> 00:27:46,527
episodes, or maybe
some, or
not even courses.

537
00:27:46,527 --> 00:27:50,374
I mean, specific podcast
episodes,
like, do you ever

538
00:27:50,374 --> 00:27:52,120
buy Patreon?
Get into Patreon.

539
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,922
D.R.
Fay: Yeah, I follow a PR


540
00:27:54,930 --> 00:28:00,095
person by the name of.. well,
never mind, but she's. she has


541
00:28:00,103 --> 00:28:04,728
really very juicy, juicy content
that she puts behind a paywall,

542
00:28:04,728 --> 00:28:06,694
and Marc Ronick: that's not
Lucy, is
it?

543
00:28:06,694 --> 00:28:08,402
Lucy, D.R.
Fay: not Lucy.

544
00:28:08,402 --> 00:28:10,089
Okay, not
Lucy.
I'm sorry.

545
00:28:10,089 --> 00:28:13,959
She, she's like the fixer.
Does anyone remember
that show

546
00:28:13,959 --> 00:28:18,460
with Kerry Washington, and she
fixed all problems of,
yes,

547
00:28:18,460 --> 00:28:22,325
all the problems that
celebrities get into, she's one

548
00:28:22,325 --> 00:28:25,986
of those, and oh, her stuff is
so juicy.

549
00:28:25,986 --> 00:28:28,924
I just, I couldn't
resist.
So, Marc Ronick: yeah, so there

550
00:28:28,924 --> 00:28:30,965
you
go.
It's when, so for Dr. What moves

551
00:28:30,965 --> 00:28:32,960
the needle is that real
juicy
material.

552
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,127
Yeah, right.
Okay.

553
00:28:34,127 --> 00:28:35,570
BC, you wanted to share,
go
ahead.

554
00:28:36,050 --> 00:28:37,910
BC Babbles: Same thing, I watch
a number of interview kind of

555
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,530
based shows, and as it's really
cool as they kind of grow and

556
00:28:41,530 --> 00:28:44,500
they get access to larger and

larger profile people, but it's

557
00:28:44,620 --> 00:28:48,310
a while off before that's a

public facing bit of content, so

558
00:28:48,340 --> 00:28:51,670
to get to pay to see like what's

coming up, like with like

559
00:28:51,790 --> 00:28:54,820
worldly and see where they are,
also like oh they've got access

560
00:28:54,850 --> 00:28:57,340
to this person now, they've got
access to this celebrity now,

561
00:28:58,180 --> 00:29:01,500
and I've known about this like

weeks before the world does that

562
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,800
feel cool to be able to pay for
that kind of insight into, but

563
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,530
also see how this awesome brand
is growing, you know, and it

564
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,300
helps kind of reestablish what

my goals are.

565
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,220
Marc Ronick: Love it.
Thank you.


566
00:29:11,228 --> 00:29:13,404
BC, all right, Ralph.
The Ralph Estep Jr: other thing

567
00:29:13,404 --> 00:29:15,774
I
wanted to interject here,
this is a great opportunity for

568
00:29:15,774 --> 00:29:19,339
all
of us to support of other
people, and I make a point of


569
00:29:19,347 --> 00:29:22,524
this, and I didn't know Dave
Campbell had a buy me a coffee,

570
00:29:22,524 --> 00:29:25,483
because he will find he's going
to have a new subscriber, I


571
00:29:25,491 --> 00:29:29,437
think all of us can do that in
and go support people that are


572
00:29:29,445 --> 00:29:33,049
doing the same sort of thing
you're doing, because for $5 a


573
00:29:33,057 --> 00:29:36,697
month on buy me a coffee you can
really show your support, so I


574
00:29:36,705 --> 00:29:39,131
know we're talking about how to
monetize your podcast, but let's

575
00:29:39,131 --> 00:29:41,709

talk about how we can give
back to others as well.

576
00:29:41,709 --> 00:29:44,585
I think it's
a really huge
thing that we can do to support

577
00:29:44,585 --> 00:29:47,257
each other,
because hey, we
can all help each other out in

578
00:29:47,257 --> 00:29:48,663
this.
But
Mark, if you want to go on

579
00:29:48,663 --> 00:29:50,967
to the next question, we can
move
on to the next question.

580
00:29:50,967 --> 00:29:53,248
Yeah, Marc Ronick: and though I
think
that that's really

581
00:29:53,248 --> 00:29:56,464
important for me, I think that
what you're
saying, paying it

582
00:29:56,464 --> 00:30:00,970
forward goes a long way, and if
you expect or
you.

583
00:30:00,970 --> 00:30:04,344
Want people to support your
podcast financially.

584
00:30:04,344 --> 00:30:07,024
Why aren't
you supporting
others?

585
00:30:07,024 --> 00:30:10,146
Right, that's the way that this
great
universe works, right.

586
00:30:10,146 --> 00:30:13,550
We've got to put, we've got to
pay it
forward in order to

587
00:30:13,550 --> 00:30:16,425
receive as well.
So I just wanted to
emphasize

588
00:30:16,425 --> 00:30:19,374
that point again, Ralph.
But yes, Ralph Estep Jr: I think

589
00:30:19,374 --> 00:30:21,344
it's
super important, Mark,
because you know, like you said,

590
00:30:21,344 --> 00:30:22,489
you
want people to support
you.

591
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:24,187
Well, what are you doing to

support them?

592
00:30:24,187 --> 00:30:26,883
What have you reached out to
them and bought
one of their

593
00:30:26,883 --> 00:30:29,959
mini courses, or do their
Patreon, send them a one
off?

594
00:30:29,959 --> 00:30:33,064
Just think about how much energy
that would build when you
get

595
00:30:33,064 --> 00:30:35,577
something like that yourself.
Think about how cool
it feels

596
00:30:35,577 --> 00:30:38,572
like somebody recognizes you.
You have the
capacity to do

597
00:30:38,572 --> 00:30:41,353
that for other people, and it's
not going to
put you in the

598
00:30:41,353 --> 00:30:44,635
poor house to do it.
Set aside 50 bucks a month
or

599
00:30:44,635 --> 00:30:48,567
25 bucks a month and go find
five people or 10 people to go


600
00:30:48,575 --> 00:30:50,724
support.
I just think it's a great way to

601
00:30:50,724 --> 00:30:52,660
build the
community.
Marc Ronick: Yep.

602
00:30:52,660 --> 00:30:53,960
Thank you,
Ralph.
Appreciate that.

603
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,502
All right, pulling out this next

question.

604
00:30:57,502 --> 00:31:01,955
This comes from Jamie in
Arlington, Texas, a few


605
00:31:01,963 --> 00:31:06,840
companies want to sponsor my
show, and I'm around 15 to


606
00:31:06,848 --> 00:31:11,430
20,000 downloads per month.
How do I know what to charge for

607
00:31:11,430 --> 00:31:14,661
a
sponsor read?
Ralph, Ralph Estep Jr: oh, I

608
00:31:14,661 --> 00:31:16,949
love this
question.
It's a great one, and the thing

609
00:31:16,949 --> 00:31:19,179
I think you got to do,
start
off with, do is breaking down

610
00:31:19,179 --> 00:31:22,107
those monthly downloads
into
episode level downloads, like I

611
00:31:22,107 --> 00:31:25,182
said, when I hit that
10,000
in my daily show, the first

612
00:31:25,182 --> 00:31:28,192
month I was so excited,
and
somebody kind of took the air

613
00:31:28,192 --> 00:31:31,097
out of my balloon and said,

"But how many is that per?

614
00:31:31,097 --> 00:31:32,909
So, if we're going to think,
because
let's pivot a little

615
00:31:32,909 --> 00:31:36,283
bit, let's talk about that CPM
formula just
for a second.

616
00:31:36,283 --> 00:31:40,359
So, the basic CPM formula takes
your downloads
divided by 1000

617
00:31:40,359 --> 00:31:43,033
multiplied by your CPM rate.
I know this is
kind of like a

618
00:31:43,033 --> 00:31:44,989
jargon wheel thing, but I think
we need to go
here at this

619
00:31:44,989 --> 00:31:47,103
point.
Marc Ronick: And CPM is cost per

620
00:31:47,103 --> 00:31:49,040

1000, Ralph Estep Jr: correct?
Yes.

621
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,965
So
here's a typical example.
Let's say you get 5000 downloads

622
00:31:52,965 --> 00:31:58,327
per
episode at $25 CPM, that
means you would get about $125

623
00:31:58,327 --> 00:32:01,569
for one
ad placement.
That's about what we're talking

624
00:32:01,569 --> 00:32:04,350
about here, but
here's the
thing, I'm going to say to you,

625
00:32:04,350 --> 00:32:06,550
is a lot of people
get hung up
on this.

626
00:32:06,550 --> 00:32:11,319
Don't sell for only one ad read.
Think
about selling packages,

627
00:32:11,319 --> 00:32:13,548
multiple episodes.
If you've got a
newsletter,

628
00:32:13,548 --> 00:32:17,358
like Dr. said, she subscribes to
newsletters, you
can put that

629
00:32:17,358 --> 00:32:20,370
out, social post, community
visibility, all those
things

630
00:32:20,370 --> 00:32:23,930
add to the value to this person.
A lot of people get
stuck on,

631
00:32:23,930 --> 00:32:26,135
well, how much can I charge for
a host, right?

632
00:32:26,135 --> 00:32:28,550
At,
yeah, there's, there's
potentially a number for that.


633
00:32:28,558 --> 00:32:31,490
But think about what you're
doing, you're inviting them into

634
00:32:31,490 --> 00:32:35,515

a level of gold that you have.
Your audience is your gold, and

635
00:32:35,515 --> 00:32:38,875
you're inviting them into that.
They're getting a lot more value

636
00:32:38,875 --> 00:32:40,836

than just the episode or that
ad read.

637
00:32:40,836 --> 00:32:43,180
They're going to be in the

show notes, and you got to

638
00:32:43,210 --> 00:32:44,920
really promote this, like I'm

going to use the word, you got

639
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,710
to pimp yourself out a little

bit here, you've got to do that

640
00:32:47,740 --> 00:32:50,350
and show where all these things
are going to happen, because

641
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:54,010
it's a package, multiple

episodes, newsletter, social

642
00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:56,950
posts, community visibility,

that's where you can take that

643
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,360
move away, I hate the CPM model,

if I haven't said that, it's

644
00:33:00,390 --> 00:33:04,200
probably pretty obvious what

you're sponsoring is you, you're

645
00:33:04,290 --> 00:33:07,099
sponsoring that beautiful

audience that you have.

646
00:33:07,099 --> 00:33:10,140
But here's the thing, as you're
moving into this, be very clear

647
00:33:10,410 --> 00:33:14,430
about the placement, the link,

the exclusivity, reporting,

648
00:33:14,850 --> 00:33:16,980
payment terms, and here's

another thing we got to think

649
00:33:17,010 --> 00:33:20,475
about: is the ad baked in, or is

it dynamically inserted?

650
00:33:20,475 --> 00:33:22,594
Now, let me, that's probably
another
jargon thing, right,

651
00:33:22,594 --> 00:33:24,465
Mark.
So we're talking about baked in,

652
00:33:24,465 --> 00:33:27,095

that is, you know, it's going
to play in every episode till

653
00:33:27,095 --> 00:33:29,200
the
end of time.
Marc Ronick: Let me, yeah.

654
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,040
And
what he means by that is,
so baked in ads, that means that

655
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,124

you are recording the ad while
you're recording the episode,


656
00:33:36,132 --> 00:33:38,386
right?
That's what it means to bake it

657
00:33:38,386 --> 00:33:41,228
in, because it's baked
in,
meaning it's going to live there

658
00:33:41,228 --> 00:33:43,636
unless you want to remove
it
at some point.

659
00:33:43,636 --> 00:33:47,220
Then you've got to go to your
original
edited file, edit it

660
00:33:47,220 --> 00:33:51,269
out, and then upload it to the
episode
again, and you know,

661
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:54,337
take down the other audio, the
original,
and replace it with

662
00:33:54,337 --> 00:33:56,753
your new one.
That's a pain in the butt,
and

663
00:33:56,753 --> 00:34:00,223
a lot of work to do, which is
why there's also dynamic ads,


664
00:34:00,231 --> 00:34:03,415
where some platforms allow you
to automatically insert it in


665
00:34:03,423 --> 00:34:07,633
and insert it out whenever you
see fit, and it basically pauses

666
00:34:07,633 --> 00:34:11,571

the podcast, plays the ad, and
then resumes the podcast after


667
00:34:11,579 --> 00:34:13,904
the ad, Ralph Estep Jr: but you
got to
be clear with your

668
00:34:13,904 --> 00:34:16,216
sponsors to front end what
they're getting,
because the

669
00:34:16,216 --> 00:34:18,820
sponsor might not understand the
difference
between the two.

670
00:34:18,820 --> 00:34:22,178
So lay that out, put it all out
there in
writing, I'm a big

671
00:34:22,178 --> 00:34:25,054
proponent of that, but to really
answer the
question, don't

672
00:34:25,054 --> 00:34:29,446
just sell them on a quote host
read ad, sell
them on the

673
00:34:29,446 --> 00:34:32,005
whole economy, the whole
ecosystem that you're
bringing

674
00:34:32,005 --> 00:34:35,643
to the table for them, and I see
BC is nodding his
head, if he

675
00:34:35,643 --> 00:34:37,732
shakes anymore, he's going to
shake the whole camera D.R.

676
00:34:37,732 --> 00:34:41,610
Fay: down, can we break
that
down a little bit, like what

677
00:34:41,610 --> 00:34:44,340
would a package include for

me?

678
00:34:44,340 --> 00:34:49,945
I tell my clients, well, you can
like dedicate a whole
episode

679
00:34:49,945 --> 00:34:53,722
to the product and what the
product's about.

680
00:34:53,722 --> 00:34:58,363
Hopefully
it is in alignment
with what your message is.

681
00:34:58,363 --> 00:35:02,170
How about la.

Lives on Facebook and on

682
00:35:02,170 --> 00:35:05,230
Instagram, you can do lives

where people, where listeners

683
00:35:05,230 --> 00:35:08,890
can ask questions and get a

direct answer from the sponsor.

684
00:35:08,890 --> 00:35:12,640
And what else would you say

would be in that package?

685
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,490
Ralph Estep Jr: Well, Dr. Very

valuable observation, and I'm

686
00:35:15,490 --> 00:35:16,995
gonna grab one thing you first

said.

687
00:35:16,995 --> 00:35:19,618
Listen, if it doesn't fit your
product, that's not a
sponsor

688
00:35:19,618 --> 00:35:21,676
that you should have D.R.
Fay: right, Ralph Estep Jr:

689
00:35:21,676 --> 00:35:23,539
that's where we
get into that
desperation talk we talked about

690
00:35:23,539 --> 00:35:26,086
earlier, but I,
you know, who
does a really good job of this,

691
00:35:26,086 --> 00:35:29,780
James Cridley with
Pod News,
he is like a master at this.

692
00:35:29,780 --> 00:35:33,025
If you notice, every month

there's like a headline sponsor,

693
00:35:33,025 --> 00:35:35,641
and then he has sponsors of

individual pieces.

694
00:35:35,641 --> 00:35:38,971
I'm actually one of his, I think
it's gold
sponsors for his,

695
00:35:38,971 --> 00:35:42,073
his daily show, you get this and
you get
that, so Dr. I think

696
00:35:42,073 --> 00:35:45,325
you got to think in terms of
maybe, and it
depends on your

697
00:35:45,325 --> 00:35:47,590
cadence as well.
If you are a daily show like


698
00:35:47,598 --> 00:35:50,158
mine, maybe you do a monthly
sponsorship, or you do, hey,


699
00:35:50,166 --> 00:35:53,734
this show on Mondays is brought
to you by X or something like


700
00:35:53,742 --> 00:35:55,834
that.
But I think bigger than that,

701
00:35:55,834 --> 00:35:59,821
your newsletter, social
media
posts, if you have a community,

702
00:35:59,821 --> 00:36:02,398
are you promoting
that product
out there in the community?

703
00:36:02,398 --> 00:36:05,436
I think if you bring
it to the
table of something bigger than

704
00:36:05,436 --> 00:36:08,130
that, because here's
the
thing, it's your show, you do

705
00:36:08,130 --> 00:36:11,605
what you want, you know, like

I said, pimp yourself out, the

706
00:36:11,605 --> 00:36:13,945
person wants to see what am I

going to get from it, because

707
00:36:13,945 --> 00:36:17,095
here's the thing, the person

that's buying the sponsorship

708
00:36:17,095 --> 00:36:20,695
once wants to sell something,

they want to have, they want to

709
00:36:20,695 --> 00:36:23,395
move the needle, and if you can
help them move the needle, you

710
00:36:23,395 --> 00:36:26,665
could have a sponsor for life.

So, give them as much as you

711
00:36:26,665 --> 00:36:28,520
can, make it clear, make it

abundant.

712
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,806
Say, here I am going to love on
you, I'm going to put
you on

713
00:36:31,806 --> 00:36:33,727
all the different pieces of the
puzzle that I have.

714
00:36:33,727 --> 00:36:35,050
So, I
hope that answers your
question.

715
00:36:35,050 --> 00:36:35,894
D.R.
D.R.

716
00:36:35,894 --> 00:36:40,094
Fay: Yeah, it does, but I
also
want to make the point of doing

717
00:36:40,094 --> 00:36:46,126
a live read statistics
have
shown that doing a live read is

718
00:36:46,126 --> 00:36:50,710
really more effective
than
anything else, that's what

719
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:56,710
statistics show, but doing a

live read is difficult because

720
00:36:57,130 --> 00:37:01,140
it's hard to remember to get

that in when you're, when you're

721
00:37:01,350 --> 00:37:03,960
basically on a roll, you're

talking about something, and

722
00:37:03,990 --> 00:37:09,060
you're on a roll, and you have

to stop and do that live read.

723
00:37:09,870 --> 00:37:16,590
It takes finesse and talent and
skill to kind of weave that ad

724
00:37:17,010 --> 00:37:20,229
in, maybe relate it to something

that's being talked about.

725
00:37:20,229 --> 00:37:23,997
This is one of the reasons why I
love
Conan.

726
00:37:23,997 --> 00:37:28,300
Conan has a podcast, and he is
brilliant with the way he


727
00:37:28,308 --> 00:37:31,164
handles his live reads.
They're very long, but they're

728
00:37:31,164 --> 00:37:33,650
very
funny, but that is his
skill set.

729
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,104
Marc Ronick: Yep, yes, he does.


730
00:37:36,112 --> 00:37:38,720
He's one of the best at it,
that's for sure.

731
00:37:39,140 --> 00:37:40,728
Ralph Estep Jr: And that's why

they work, though.

732
00:37:40,728 --> 00:37:43,552
They work because the audience
doesn't
even realize half the

733
00:37:43,552 --> 00:37:46,690
time that they're even in an

advertisement, and that's why

734
00:37:46,780 --> 00:37:49,510
I'm saying, if you're selling a
product that you use, that you

735
00:37:49,630 --> 00:37:53,470
endorse, that you say, "Here's

the value I got from this, it's

736
00:37:53,530 --> 00:37:56,560
not really an ad read at that

point anymore, Dr. it's more of,

737
00:37:56,740 --> 00:37:59,800
"Here's what works for me, and

my audience trusts me, so

738
00:37:59,890 --> 00:38:02,250
they're going to go do business
with this particular company,

739
00:38:02,850 --> 00:38:06,030
Marc Ronick: and entertainment

and comedy podcasts have a real

740
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,200
advantage, I think, because they

can really weave it into their

741
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,040
content, where your audience

doesn't even know it at first,

742
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,190
right?
Like, I think it's harder
for

743
00:38:16,190 --> 00:38:19,546
some that may be more serious
podcasts, more focused


744
00:38:19,554 --> 00:38:23,721
podcasts, where you know, just
to try to like casually weave it

745
00:38:23,721 --> 00:38:25,908

in might be feel a little more
challenging.

746
00:38:25,908 --> 00:38:28,908
I believe you can
do it
regardless, no matter what kind

747
00:38:28,908 --> 00:38:31,586
of show you have.
But I
just thought I'd call

748
00:38:31,586 --> 00:38:34,330
that out because I was
remembering the
big show that

749
00:38:34,330 --> 00:38:36,962
I used to work on, the Mike
O'Mara show.

750
00:38:36,962 --> 00:38:40,858
You always
knew when they were
doing a commercial, but at the

751
00:38:40,858 --> 00:38:45,448
same
time, when they would do
it, you would still lean in as a

752
00:38:45,448 --> 00:38:48,151

listener, like I heard this
all the time, because people

753
00:38:48,151 --> 00:38:51,245
would
want to just hear what
antics they were going to get

754
00:38:51,245 --> 00:38:53,440
into
while they were doing the
commercial read, they would


755
00:38:53,448 --> 00:38:57,694
always find a way to make it
funny, even though we knew at


756
00:38:57,702 --> 00:39:01,414
these times during the podcast
they always do a commercial, it

757
00:39:01,414 --> 00:39:04,015
didn't matter, because people
just wanted to get entertained


758
00:39:04,023 --> 00:39:06,270
by wondering what was going to
come next.

759
00:39:06,810 --> 00:39:09,450
D.R.
Fay: I also wanted to touch
on

760
00:39:09,450 --> 00:39:14,620
the fact that maybe your host is
not skilled in the way to do


761
00:39:14,628 --> 00:39:17,930
those live shades.
A pre-taped message, for

762
00:39:17,930 --> 00:39:21,869
instance, let's say
your call
to action is you're trying to

763
00:39:21,869 --> 00:39:25,090
build a community on
one of
the platforms, like school.

764
00:39:25,090 --> 00:39:31,060
Okay, so a pre-taped
message
about that is can be effective

765
00:39:31,060 --> 00:39:35,822
if you helpfully, you
have a
good editor that can whoosh you

766
00:39:35,822 --> 00:39:37,785
in, you know, give us
that
whoosh sound.

767
00:39:37,785 --> 00:39:40,734
Mark, Marc Ronick: oh man, okay,
D.R.

768
00:39:40,734 --> 00:39:43,414
Fay: there you go.
If you
wish it in, whoosh it

769
00:39:43,414 --> 00:39:47,520
out, have a little maybe a music
bed
underneath what you're

770
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,825
saying.
I think that that can be

771
00:39:49,825 --> 00:39:52,750
effective
as well.
Marc Ronick: Speaking of which,

772
00:39:52,750 --> 00:39:55,240
Ralph, what's coming up for
tomorrow's episode?

773
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,016
Ralph Estep Jr: Oh, you know

what, D.R.

774
00:39:57,016 --> 00:39:59,940
If I was next, I'd give you a
big hug, because you
just.

775
00:39:59,940 --> 00:40:02,297
Walked us right into where we're
going tomorrow.

776
00:40:02,297 --> 00:40:04,019
Tomorrow
we've got Jody
Krangle.

777
00:40:04,019 --> 00:40:07,207
She's going to join the show.
She is a
voice over and a

778
00:40:07,207 --> 00:40:10,304
sound person, and she's going to
talk to us
about how to bring

779
00:40:10,304 --> 00:40:13,446
that sound and those that
soundscape of how
to make your

780
00:40:13,446 --> 00:40:15,416
listeners really feel great
about your episode.


781
00:40:15,424 --> 00:40:19,142
She's going to talk to us about
her many years of experience to

782
00:40:19,142 --> 00:40:22,249
invite voiceovers and really
the art and science of sound, so

783
00:40:22,249 --> 00:40:24,781

make sure you join us
tomorrow, 8am Jody Krangle is

784
00:40:24,781 --> 00:40:27,814
going to be
here, and I am
telling you what I am excited.

785
00:40:27,814 --> 00:40:30,341
I can't wait to
hear what she
has to tell Marc Ronick: us.

786
00:40:30,341 --> 00:40:32,519
Yeah, and I
want to talk to
her a little bit about how we

787
00:40:32,519 --> 00:40:35,058
use our voices too
as
podcasters, right?

788
00:40:35,058 --> 00:40:38,914
Because there is a way, a style
that we
can adopt that, like

789
00:40:38,914 --> 00:40:42,253
you're saying, Ralph, really
helps that
audience feel

790
00:40:42,253 --> 00:40:45,118
welcomed, feel like this is the
right place.


791
00:40:45,126 --> 00:40:48,559
They, it helps with their trust
with the host, etc.

792
00:40:48,559 --> 00:40:52,090
So, I want
to learn more from
her about that stuff too.

793
00:40:52,090 --> 00:40:54,854
So, looking
forward to Jody
Crank, Ralph Estep Jr: and, like

794
00:40:54,854 --> 00:40:57,615
Dave
said, she's a Canadian,
so we gotta, we got a thumbs up

795
00:40:57,615 --> 00:40:59,855
from
Dave.
So, is it, uh, she's going to be

796
00:40:59,855 --> 00:41:03,884
good?
Hey, Marc Ronick: okay, Ralph,

797
00:41:03,884 --> 00:41:06,650
I'm
not sure if this is
something that's coming up in

798
00:41:06,650 --> 00:41:10,080
the mailbag
or not, but we've
talked a lot about sponsorships

799
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:14,516
and bringing
on sponsors, and
we haven't yet really talked

800
00:41:14,516 --> 00:41:18,861
about how do we
know what to
charge them, that is such a

801
00:41:18,861 --> 00:41:22,098
common question that I
get
from podcasters when they start

802
00:41:22,098 --> 00:41:23,735
thinking about bringing in

sponsors.

803
00:41:23,735 --> 00:41:26,858
Well, okay, but I have no idea
what to charge them.

804
00:41:26,858 --> 00:41:29,360
So,
what would you tell
somebody that says that or asks

805
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,470
that?
Ralph Estep Jr: That's a hard


806
00:41:31,478 --> 00:41:32,862
question, Mark.
You just stumped me, because

807
00:41:32,862 --> 00:41:35,137
this is the question
I get a
lot now, working with content

808
00:41:35,137 --> 00:41:38,138
creators, and I wish I
could
tell you I had a great answer

809
00:41:38,138 --> 00:41:38,930
for that.
I don't.

810
00:41:38,930 --> 00:41:42,180
I will
tell you this: if you
go back to the CPM model, we can

811
00:41:42,180 --> 00:41:44,938
take that
apart a little bit,
so you can look at your

812
00:41:44,938 --> 00:41:46,165
audience.
You could
say, "Okay, well, if

813
00:41:46,165 --> 00:41:49,597
I got this many downloads, if I
was going
to do CPM, here's

814
00:41:49,597 --> 00:41:51,602
how much money I would be
earning.

815
00:41:51,602 --> 00:41:53,856
You start
there.
I think that's a base number,

816
00:41:53,856 --> 00:41:56,786
but bigger than that, I
think
what you have to do is just kind

817
00:41:56,786 --> 00:41:59,440
of put some numbers
out there
and just say, "Hey, what, what

818
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,962
do you, what do you
want to
give me, and what is it you're

819
00:42:01,962 --> 00:42:04,458
willing to pay?
The
problem is, as content

820
00:42:04,458 --> 00:42:06,714
creators, we'll undersell
ourselves a lot
of times.

821
00:42:06,714 --> 00:42:09,835
So, I think you put a bigger
number out there than you


822
00:42:09,843 --> 00:42:12,455
think you actually could get,
because a lot of people think,


823
00:42:12,463 --> 00:42:14,948
and this is true of sales in
general, a lot of people think,

824
00:42:14,948 --> 00:42:17,202
well, if my price is right,
I'll sell it every time.

825
00:42:17,202 --> 00:42:19,138
Well, guess
what?
If you sell it every time, your

826
00:42:19,138 --> 00:42:21,509
price is too low.
Yeah, so
you, you want people

827
00:42:21,509 --> 00:42:24,530
to say no.
So, what I say is, start at a


828
00:42:24,538 --> 00:42:27,608
high number and see how many nos
you get, and then start to drop

829
00:42:27,608 --> 00:42:29,858
that down a little bit till you
get a yes.

830
00:42:29,858 --> 00:42:32,726
Because if you can
get a yes
at a high number, then maybe

831
00:42:32,726 --> 00:42:35,186
that sets the tone of
where
you're going to be, because it's

832
00:42:35,186 --> 00:42:38,084
easy to say, well,
I'm going
to sponsor, I'm going to do $100

833
00:42:38,084 --> 00:42:40,720
a month for a
sponsor.
What if you could get 10,000 a

834
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:42,598
month.
What if you
could get 5000 a

835
00:42:42,598 --> 00:42:44,365
month?
What if you could get 1000 a

836
00:42:44,365 --> 00:42:45,730
month?
If
you don't ask, you're never

837
00:42:45,850 --> 00:42:48,520
going to get that.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, and I know


838
00:42:48,528 --> 00:42:51,535
that Sid has shared that he
actually feels like he did


839
00:42:51,543 --> 00:42:55,680
undersell a little bit because
he's now found himself in


840
00:42:55,688 --> 00:42:58,944
certain occasions scrambling a
little bit because he's got a


841
00:42:58,952 --> 00:43:03,092
lot of work to do for maybe not
quite the same value of what you

842
00:43:03,092 --> 00:43:06,545

know, what they paid for it,
so yeah, that's a, that's a trap

843
00:43:06,545 --> 00:43:09,786

that we can easily fall into.
I try to encourage people when

844
00:43:09,786 --> 00:43:12,822
I'm
having this conversation,
and I go down a similar road as

845
00:43:12,822 --> 00:43:15,996
you,
Ralph, and I'll say to
the podcaster, well, how much do

846
00:43:15,996 --> 00:43:19,322
you
think it's worth, right?
And eventually I'll get them to

847
00:43:19,322 --> 00:43:23,046
come
up with an answer, and
then I'll tell them to one and a

848
00:43:23,046 --> 00:43:27,380
half
times that, just just up
it, because, like you said, we


849
00:43:27,388 --> 00:43:30,020
undersell ourselves a lot.
Ralph Estep Jr: I'll give you a

850
00:43:30,020 --> 00:43:31,756
great example of this.
I was working with a client,

851
00:43:31,756 --> 00:43:34,480
it's
probably been 15 years
ago, he washed windows, that was

852
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,406
his
job, he was a window
washer, and he came to me and he

853
00:43:37,406 --> 00:43:40,232
said,
Ralph, he says, man, I
am so busy, I've got a three

854
00:43:40,232 --> 00:43:43,132
month
backlog, I can't get, I
can't even get my work done.

855
00:43:43,132 --> 00:43:45,340
I said,
your prices are too
low, and he says, What do you

856
00:43:45,340 --> 00:43:46,982
mean, my
prices are too low?
I said, Here's what I want you

857
00:43:46,982 --> 00:43:48,597
to do
tomorrow, I want you to
double your prices.

858
00:43:48,597 --> 00:43:52,180
He said, Ralph, if
I double my
prices, no one is going to call

859
00:43:52,180 --> 00:43:54,340
me.
I said, do me
just listen to

860
00:43:54,340 --> 00:43:55,635
me.
So he goes away.

861
00:43:55,635 --> 00:43:57,340
Three months later, he
comes
back, and I said, How are

862
00:43:57,430 --> 00:43:58,722
things?
He goes, Man, he says, I


863
00:43:58,730 --> 00:44:01,372
didn't want to do what you said,
I didn't double my prices, but I

864
00:44:01,372 --> 00:44:02,953

raised them by 50% I said,
'What happened?

865
00:44:02,953 --> 00:44:04,650
He goes, 'I lost zero

business.

866
00:44:04,650 --> 00:44:06,972
He said, 'I still have a three
month backlog.

867
00:44:06,972 --> 00:44:09,325
He says,
'Ralph, when I leave
this meeting today, I'm going to

868
00:44:09,325 --> 00:44:11,220
do
what you said, I'm going to
double my prices.

869
00:44:11,220 --> 00:44:13,220
Guess what?
He
doubled his prices, and he

870
00:44:13,220 --> 00:44:16,121
still had a three month backlog.
He
ended up tripling his

871
00:44:16,121 --> 00:44:19,613
prices, and then he finally
started to
see some attrition.

872
00:44:19,613 --> 00:44:23,123
So we all think that we can't
like what
Bez put in the chat.

873
00:44:23,123 --> 00:44:25,604
He said the formula comes from
knowing their
business and

874
00:44:25,604 --> 00:44:27,362
what they are trying to
accomplish.

875
00:44:27,362 --> 00:44:30,062
That
should drive your formula
and make it fair.

876
00:44:30,062 --> 00:44:31,766
Don't leave money
on the
table.

877
00:44:31,766 --> 00:44:34,895
I agree, Bez, what is the value
you're giving your
audience?

878
00:44:34,895 --> 00:44:37,848
What is the value that
advertiser, that sponsor, is


879
00:44:37,856 --> 00:44:40,116
getting?
Put numbers on that, because if

880
00:44:40,116 --> 00:44:43,375
you're solving a
problem, and
they are the conduit to solving

881
00:44:43,375 --> 00:44:45,580
that problem
that is worth a
lot to them.

882
00:44:46,060 --> 00:44:47,380
Marc Ronick: BC has something.

Go ahead, BC.

883
00:44:48,010 --> 00:44:49,866
BC Babbles: Yeah, and one of the

other things I would mention,

884
00:44:49,866 --> 00:44:52,562
a great thing to do, and I think
a
lot of us creatives have

885
00:44:52,562 --> 00:44:56,076
this same block when we're
trying to
really make sense of

886
00:44:56,076 --> 00:44:58,954
the pricing we have for what we
offer, and a
colleague of mine

887
00:44:58,954 --> 00:45:00,897
mentioned this on their podcast.
Cast a couple
months ago, and

888
00:45:00,897 --> 00:45:04,929
I loved when they did this.
Learn to line
item the process

889
00:45:04,929 --> 00:45:08,688
of the service.
A lot of times people think


890
00:45:08,696 --> 00:45:12,345
single service, single product,
therefore the pricing should be

891
00:45:12,345 --> 00:45:15,450
minimal, but when you really
line item out, what it looks


892
00:45:15,458 --> 00:45:19,060
like, and this goes back to you
mentioning having to remove a


893
00:45:19,068 --> 00:45:22,160
baked-in ad, right?
The process, the difficulty that

894
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,576
is break
down line item, what
the provision of that

895
00:45:25,576 --> 00:45:29,914
sponsorship
looks like on your
end to help make sense of why

896
00:45:29,914 --> 00:45:33,092
your pricing
is what it is.
Just in case you get additional

897
00:45:33,092 --> 00:45:36,413
pushback, if they
see that
this is quite the process to put

898
00:45:36,413 --> 00:45:39,986
their logo here,
here, here,
and record this, this, and that,

899
00:45:39,986 --> 00:45:42,738
it makes more
sense for your
pricing to be where it should

900
00:45:42,738 --> 00:45:44,050
be.
Marc Ronick: Yeah, thank you,


901
00:45:44,058 --> 00:45:45,548
BC.
It's a great, yeah, I like that

902
00:45:45,548 --> 00:45:47,452
one too.
That's a great way
to approach

903
00:45:47,452 --> 00:45:49,490
it.
And so, look, I think that

904
00:45:49,490 --> 00:45:52,696
ultimately, if
somebody's
still kind of hanging on our

905
00:45:52,696 --> 00:45:54,700
words here and wondering,

well, I still don't know what to

906
00:45:54,820 --> 00:45:57,340
charge, right?
I think one way
to do this is

907
00:45:57,340 --> 00:46:00,469
reach out to a few different
podcasters, see what
they're

908
00:46:00,469 --> 00:46:02,955
charging, right?
And this is such a great

909
00:46:02,955 --> 00:46:04,590
community.

And if you don't, if you haven't

910
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,560
really engaged with the

podcasting community, start with

911
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,960
ours.
Go to our Facebook group,


912
00:46:09,968 --> 00:46:13,020
Empowered Podcasting, search for
that, and join us, and ask your

913
00:46:13,020 --> 00:46:14,780
question there, and see what
people say.

914
00:46:14,780 --> 00:46:18,609
Or join Pod Fest
Facebook
group as well, and put it in a

915
00:46:18,609 --> 00:46:20,548
few different groups,
see what
what people say.

916
00:46:20,548 --> 00:46:24,168
And yes, BC says Chat GPT.
You could
ask Chat GPT too.

917
00:46:24,168 --> 00:46:26,720
Why not, right?
It's at least giving you
a

918
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:28,950
starting point.
I do think that every podcast,

919
00:46:28,950 --> 00:46:32,590
not every,
but I do think a
lot of podcasts are different,

920
00:46:32,590 --> 00:46:37,060
and I think it's
important to
try to, you know, poll the

921
00:46:37,060 --> 00:46:39,847
audience, if you will,
poll
your fellow podcasters and see

922
00:46:39,847 --> 00:46:42,383
what they're charging.
I
don't think you should

923
00:46:42,383 --> 00:46:47,602
charge any less than $100 for a
30 to
62nd spot, and

924
00:46:47,602 --> 00:46:51,370
regardless, even if you have 15
downloads a
month, I say start

925
00:46:51,370 --> 00:46:54,911
at least at $100 for a 30 or
62nd spot.

926
00:46:54,911 --> 00:46:58,840
At
least start there, but I
think you could get a lot more

927
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,488
than
that, and like Ralph said
earlier, package this.

928
00:47:01,488 --> 00:47:03,900
Don't
just charge for one
episode.

929
00:47:04,590 --> 00:47:06,435
It's not worth it.
It's not
worth your time.

930
00:47:06,435 --> 00:47:09,264
It's not worth the pitch.
It's not worth the
effort.

931
00:47:09,264 --> 00:47:12,960
Put it at least for a month or a
quarterly package.

932
00:47:13,860 --> 00:47:14,730
D.R.
Fay: Let me just interrupt


933
00:47:14,738 --> 00:47:15,600
here for a second.
I'm sorry.

934
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,480
There is a saying in the

business, and this happened in

935
00:47:20,750 --> 00:47:23,914
television, and it's happening,
it happens in radio, and now

936
00:47:23,914 --> 00:47:28,580
I'm podcasting, that people have
to
hear the pitch, the call to

937
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:34,610
action, at least what I think

seven times, but in podcasting I

938
00:47:34,730 --> 00:47:38,372
think it's up to like 11 or 12

times, Marc Ronick: oh really,

939
00:47:38,372 --> 00:47:40,682
okay, D.R.
Fay: something like that,
in

940
00:47:40,682 --> 00:47:46,670
order for people to say, hey, I
think I go for that, so yeah,


941
00:47:46,678 --> 00:47:51,050
just one episode is not going to
do you any good, Ralph Estep Jr:

942
00:47:51,050 --> 00:47:52,190
and just think
about this,
D.R.

943
00:47:52,190 --> 00:47:54,559
If you're doing a baked-in ad
and you're just
getting

944
00:47:54,559 --> 00:47:57,768
started, if you knock it out of
the park five years from
now,

945
00:47:57,768 --> 00:48:00,575
that sponsor is still going to
be getting all the gold from


946
00:48:00,583 --> 00:48:03,708
what you brought to them for
that whole period of time, so


947
00:48:03,716 --> 00:48:05,448
don't undersell yourself, like
Mark said.

948
00:48:05,448 --> 00:48:08,129
I think it's easy to
undersell
what you're doing, especially

949
00:48:08,129 --> 00:48:11,023
baked-in ads, which
I'm not a
big fan of those, because

950
00:48:11,023 --> 00:48:13,059
companies go out of
business,
things change.

951
00:48:13,059 --> 00:48:16,387
I think dynamic is the way to
go, but if
you're going to do

952
00:48:16,387 --> 00:48:18,000
that, there's a lot of value in
that.

953
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,350
Marc Ronick: Okay, Ralph, we're
going to move to the next

954
00:48:21,470 --> 00:48:24,678
question.
Here, let me.. and I
just

955
00:48:24,678 --> 00:48:28,550
remembered that, you know, where
I'm on video now.

956
00:48:28,550 --> 00:48:31,274
My
secret is revealed.
Everyone's seeing what I'm

957
00:48:31,274 --> 00:48:34,820
doing, which is
just grabbing
a bunch of pieces of paper and

958
00:48:34,820 --> 00:48:38,750
old checks and
stuff that's
sitting on my desk, BC Babbles:

959
00:48:38,750 --> 00:48:39,740
envelopes, and send
that to
you.

960
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,355
Marc Ronick: Yes, that would be
great.

961
00:48:42,355 --> 00:48:44,520
That'd be great.
Yes, I think that would be

962
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:45,030
perfect.
All
right.

963
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:46,570
Well, this Ralph Estep Jr: one
have this
one mark.

964
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:49,165
Marc Ronick: What's that?
Oh,
that's a good one.

965
00:48:49,165 --> 00:48:52,288
Is that a sound effect?
Ralph Estep Jr: It Marc Ronick:

966
00:48:52,288 --> 00:48:52,855
is.
Oh, nice.

967
00:48:52,855 --> 00:48:54,430
So
you're not actually
crumpling papers there.

968
00:48:54,850 --> 00:48:56,140
Ralph Estep Jr: That's too much
effort for me anymore.

969
00:48:57,460 --> 00:49:00,250
Marc Ronick: All right, I'm

gonna pull this one out here.

970
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:05,070
This is from I'm skipping a

question, just FYI, Ralph from

971
00:49:05,250 --> 00:49:09,450
Tony in Portland, Oregon.
Tony
says, I qualified for ads

972
00:49:09,570 --> 00:49:13,500
through my podcast host, but

nobody has bought the slots yet.

973
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,670
Should I wait on platform ads,

join a network, or sell

974
00:49:17,850 --> 00:49:19,950
sponsorships myself?
What do you
think, Ralph?

975
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,400
Ralph Estep Jr: Oh yeah, I was

happy to see this one too,

976
00:49:22,580 --> 00:49:25,130
because a lot of people get onto

these platform ads and they

977
00:49:25,220 --> 00:49:28,100
think they've arrived.
The
problem with platform ads

978
00:49:28,100 --> 00:49:31,379
is they may not match what
you're
doing in your show.

979
00:49:31,379 --> 00:49:33,890
I have been listening to shows
where all of
a sudden it's

980
00:49:33,890 --> 00:49:37,004
like I had whiplash because this
post was
talking about one

981
00:49:37,004 --> 00:49:40,243
thing and I'm here to add for
something
completely different

982
00:49:40,243 --> 00:49:43,264
than that, that's the problem
with the
platform ads, that's

983
00:49:43,264 --> 00:49:45,082
the problem with joining a
network again.


984
00:49:45,090 --> 00:49:47,152
What are you doing to your
audience?

985
00:49:47,152 --> 00:49:50,680
So, like I said,
qualifying
for a platform ad program is

986
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:52,780
great, but it doesn't

guarantee your ads are going to

987
00:49:52,810 --> 00:49:54,427
sell.
People still have to go
out

988
00:49:54,427 --> 00:49:57,892
there and buy those ads, and the
ad marketplace depends on


989
00:49:57,900 --> 00:49:59,752
advertisers' demand, category,
geography.

990
00:49:59,752 --> 00:50:03,306
Audience size
available
inventory, and here's the thing:

991
00:50:03,306 --> 00:50:06,244
they're convenient,
but I
don't think they should be your

992
00:50:06,244 --> 00:50:08,790
only monetization strategy.

I still think direct

993
00:50:08,820 --> 00:50:11,250
sponsorships give you more

control of the brand fit, the

994
00:50:11,430 --> 00:50:13,620
pricing, and the messaging.

Here's the thing, I will say, if

995
00:50:14,130 --> 00:50:17,400
you want to use platform ads,

you can use those for unsold

996
00:50:17,580 --> 00:50:19,950
inventory when you're still

doing your other things

997
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:21,606
yourself.
I don't think that's a


998
00:50:21,614 --> 00:50:24,440
terrible plan, but again, know
what you're putting on your


999
00:50:24,448 --> 00:50:26,030
show.
What are you going to be

1000
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:29,240
subjecting your audience to?

Because if you're not careful,

1001
00:50:29,420 --> 00:50:32,467
anybody could put an ad on there

that you may disagree with.

1002
00:50:32,467 --> 00:50:36,410
It could be a philosophical, it
could be a political ad, any of

1003
00:50:36,410 --> 00:50:37,964
those things that you might not
like.

1004
00:50:37,964 --> 00:50:40,690
So just be aware that when
you're going with those platform

1005
00:50:40,690 --> 00:50:44,205

ads, you get what they send
your way, so I'm not a huge fan

1006
00:50:44,205 --> 00:50:46,944
of
those, to be blunt.
Marc Ronick: Okay, cool.

1007
00:50:46,944 --> 00:50:49,644
And
does anyone else want,
because I want to try to get to

1008
00:50:49,644 --> 00:50:51,967
at least
one or two more.
Does anyone else want to

1009
00:50:51,967 --> 00:50:54,474
respond, or shall I
move to
the next one?

1010
00:50:54,474 --> 00:51:01,800
All right, I'm going to move on.
This one
comes from Sophia in

1011
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,622
Pennsylvania, listeners keep

asking for merch.

1012
00:51:05,622 --> 00:51:10,599
Is print on demand worth it, or
should I do
limited merch

1013
00:51:10,599 --> 00:51:12,486
drops and ship everything
myself?

1014
00:51:12,486 --> 00:51:15,936
I'm curious,
not just for
Ralph here, I'm curious what

1015
00:51:15,936 --> 00:51:18,975
others think about
this,
because merch is often a common

1016
00:51:18,975 --> 00:51:21,440
way that a lot of
podcasters
like to jump into the

1017
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,650
monetization game, and I'm

curious, from different people's

1018
00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:26,425
experience, what you would say

to that.

1019
00:51:26,425 --> 00:51:30,335
So, again, do we do print on
demand, is that worth
it, or

1020
00:51:30,335 --> 00:51:34,160
should we limit to merch drops
and ship everything
ourselves?

1021
00:51:34,940 --> 00:51:37,253
Ralph Estep Jr: I will jump into

this first, and I would say

1022
00:51:37,253 --> 00:51:40,010
the thing about merchandise for
me,
a lot of people think

1023
00:51:40,070 --> 00:51:42,088
merchandise is going to be this
big profit center.

1024
00:51:42,088 --> 00:51:45,235
I do not believe that.
I think
merchandise is great

1025
00:51:45,235 --> 00:51:48,610
for building your community,

especially at the beginning.

1026
00:51:48,610 --> 00:51:51,684
I think print on demand is a
good
way to do that, because

1027
00:51:51,684 --> 00:51:53,080
it's low risk, doesn't cost
anything.

1028
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,556
In
fact, I have a merchandise
store, I don't sell much with


1029
00:51:55,564 --> 00:51:57,527
it, but that wasn't the point of
it.

1030
00:51:57,527 --> 00:51:59,770
The point of it was people

could go out there, they could

1031
00:51:59,830 --> 00:52:02,100
get a shirt that could get a

hat, they could get a mug, or

1032
00:52:02,340 --> 00:52:05,310
something like that.
It was all
about building that

1033
00:52:05,310 --> 00:52:07,590
community.
Once you've got a community


1034
00:52:07,598 --> 00:52:10,341
built, then you might consider
doing some self-managed


1035
00:52:10,349 --> 00:52:14,408
inventory, where you do an ad,
you know, where you do something

1036
00:52:14,408 --> 00:52:16,890

sort of like you do a
promotion, where I'm going to

1037
00:52:16,890 --> 00:52:19,911
sell this
much stuff, but I
think it all comes down to

1038
00:52:19,911 --> 00:52:23,531
because you want
to carry the
cost of inventory, you might end

1039
00:52:23,531 --> 00:52:25,892
up with a lot of
shirts or
whatever hats you're never going

1040
00:52:25,892 --> 00:52:27,970
to sell.
That's why
I like to print on

1041
00:52:27,970 --> 00:52:31,336
demand, but just understand it's
not going
to be a huge profit

1042
00:52:31,336 --> 00:52:33,962
center for you.
Now, if you are going to do


1043
00:52:33,970 --> 00:52:37,105
that, I would do something that
really identifies the show's


1044
00:52:37,113 --> 00:52:39,300
identity.
Maybe there's a catch phrase

1045
00:52:39,300 --> 00:52:42,024
like I'm going to do one
for
Dr. You know, words are hard in

1046
00:52:42,024 --> 00:52:43,770
the morning.
I think we
should have a words

1047
00:52:43,770 --> 00:52:47,369
are hard in the morning shirt,
that's
something that's inside

1048
00:52:47,369 --> 00:52:49,312
joke.
It's an audience thing, you


1049
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:51,404
know.
We could do something like I hit

1050
00:52:51,404 --> 00:52:54,220
the wrong button again, or

hey, BC, I'm gonna throw you

1051
00:52:54,220 --> 00:52:57,340
under the bus, BC is falling

asleep again, or something like

1052
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:58,292
that.
Hey, wake up.

1053
00:52:58,292 --> 00:53:00,940
Those are
all things that are
going to appeal to the

1054
00:53:00,940 --> 00:53:03,014
community, and
that's going to
reinforce the community, and

1055
00:53:03,014 --> 00:53:05,392
then what happens
is somebody
goes out in the community and

1056
00:53:05,392 --> 00:53:08,106
wears that shirt
or shows that
mug, and then somebody goes,

1057
00:53:08,106 --> 00:53:10,485
"Oh, what is that
all about?
What, what's hard in the

1058
00:53:10,485 --> 00:53:12,525
morning?
Who, who is Dr. Why
is words

1059
00:53:12,525 --> 00:53:15,220
hard in the morning for her?
And then they're going to
tune

1060
00:53:15,220 --> 00:53:17,790
in, because, and that's the way
you build a business, but
it's

1061
00:53:17,790 --> 00:53:20,916
not going to be a big profit
center for you at the
front

1062
00:53:20,916 --> 00:53:24,180
end, so don't spend a lot of
money, and you know, have a


1063
00:53:24,188 --> 00:53:26,768
whole shipping material set, but
then you got to deal with


1064
00:53:26,776 --> 00:53:29,210
shipping, you got to deal with
returns, you got to deal with


1065
00:53:29,218 --> 00:53:31,360
all that garbage.
It just, it's not a fun place to

1066
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,607
be.
Marc Ronick: BC, before we go to

1067
00:53:33,607 --> 00:53:37,255

you, I want to go to Jeff
Dwoskin, who joined us on stage,

1068
00:53:37,255 --> 00:53:40,944

because I know, and rightfully
so, I know why he came up on


1069
00:53:40,952 --> 00:53:44,790
stage because Jeff does sell a
lot of merch, so I'm sure he has

1070
00:53:44,790 --> 00:53:46,300

some strong opinions about
this.

1071
00:53:46,390 --> 00:53:47,415
Good morning, Jeff.
Welcome
back.

1072
00:53:47,415 --> 00:53:52,905
What did you want to add?
Jeff: Hey, hey, great to be here

1073
00:53:52,905 --> 00:53:57,620

at a normal hour.
The, yeah, well, so I've been a

1074
00:53:57,620 --> 00:54:00,898
stand-up
comic for like 20
years, so the old school was you

1075
00:54:00,898 --> 00:54:03,952
bought like
100 shirts, and
then you tried to sell them, so

1076
00:54:03,952 --> 00:54:06,462
you had to
upfront.
So, print on demand is a

1077
00:54:06,462 --> 00:54:08,716
godsend.
I mean, in terms of
not having

1078
00:54:08,716 --> 00:54:12,450
to upfront all those costs and
do all that.

1079
00:54:12,450 --> 00:54:16,968
So,
absolutely, I recommend
checking out T Public, because

1080
00:54:16,968 --> 00:54:19,872
they kind
of advertise for
you.

1081
00:54:19,872 --> 00:54:26,309
I also recommend that you don't
just
make podcast shirts, like

1082
00:54:26,309 --> 00:54:31,160
I gotta be honest with you, I've

made some money on T Public

1083
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:35,663
every month, and I've never sold

a Classic Conversations

1084
00:54:35,663 --> 00:54:39,727
T-shirt, but I make pop culture
related
shirts, and those

1085
00:54:39,727 --> 00:54:42,310
sell.
I will also say that I've made

1086
00:54:42,310 --> 00:54:45,451
hundreds
of stuff, and
probably only 10 of them have

1087
00:54:45,451 --> 00:54:48,754
ever sold.
Some
have sold a lot, and some

1088
00:54:48,754 --> 00:54:52,851
will collect dust until D.R.
Fay: the give us an example
of

1089
00:54:52,851 --> 00:54:54,999
one or two of your pop culture
shirts.

1090
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,640
Jeff: Sure, I have a Jaws one

that I have that's.

1091
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,978
Kind of Jaws Lego, that's just
the poster
that looks like

1092
00:55:03,978 --> 00:55:06,600
Lego.
I have some Twilight Zone ones

1093
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:08,490
that
I've done, some guacamole
ones.

1094
00:55:09,420 --> 00:55:11,520
Let's Guac about it is one of my

best sellers.

1095
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,144
Marc Ronick: Interesting, I'm

curious, Jeff, do you?

1096
00:55:15,144 --> 00:55:20,259
Okay, I totally am with you as
far as
the podcast related

1097
00:55:20,259 --> 00:55:24,784
shirts themselves are harder to
sell in
some cases, and so I

1098
00:55:24,784 --> 00:55:28,367
love that you're since you're a
pop
culture show, you're doing

1099
00:55:28,367 --> 00:55:32,014
pop culture related shirts.
Do you
include anything about

1100
00:55:32,014 --> 00:55:35,126
your podcast with the merch,
whether
maybe it's your

1101
00:55:35,126 --> 00:55:38,369
podcast logo somewhere else on
the shirt, or
maybe when it's

1102
00:55:38,369 --> 00:55:41,648
sent, do you send something
promotional about
the podcast,

1103
00:55:41,648 --> 00:55:45,540
I'm just curious if that, if
that's Jeff: what they send it,

1104
00:55:45,540 --> 00:55:49,564
so I
never do it, but I don't.
It's not a bad idea, like I'll

1105
00:55:49,564 --> 00:55:53,655
be
honest, I was inspired by
Mark Ronnick's shirts, and so I

1106
00:55:53,655 --> 00:55:58,035
stole
some of his ideas, like,
and made like a Star Wars

1107
00:55:58,035 --> 00:56:01,586
classic
conversations, certain
your friends' ones, you know,

1108
00:56:01,586 --> 00:56:03,630
those
were my original
inspiration.

1109
00:56:03,750 --> 00:56:07,010
So, I, I'll give you full credit

there, but the, but what I

1110
00:56:07,010 --> 00:56:09,884
think it's great, like, I just
went to
a comic con all

1111
00:56:09,884 --> 00:56:13,410
weekend, right, is with my press
pass, so I had
made classic

1112
00:56:13,410 --> 00:56:16,260
conversation shirts, so it's
easy now for me,
I can make

1113
00:56:16,260 --> 00:56:19,405
any shirt I want, and then just
buy it real cheap, you
know, I

1114
00:56:19,405 --> 00:56:22,087
mean, it's like 15 bucks or
whatever, and then I wear my


1115
00:56:22,095 --> 00:56:25,670
own shirt to the comic cons, and
walking around where it's very


1116
00:56:25,678 --> 00:56:28,355
relevant to my audience and
stuff like that.

1117
00:56:28,355 --> 00:56:30,932
So, for that D.R.
Fay: question, I have a


1118
00:56:30,940 --> 00:56:33,080
question about copyright,
because you've mentioned Star


1119
00:56:33,088 --> 00:56:36,677
Wars, you've mentioned Jaws,
people will probably want to


1120
00:56:36,685 --> 00:56:38,210
know about copyright
infringement.

1121
00:56:39,410 --> 00:56:42,280
Jeff: Yes, check with your

lawyers, there's certain things,

1122
00:56:42,370 --> 00:56:46,570
and I have gotten stuff taken

down all the time, so, but I

1123
00:56:46,660 --> 00:56:49,360
gotta say that there's people

with way worse stuff on there

1124
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,600
than mine.
Yeah, like T Public
will just

1125
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,994
take it down, they'll just take
it down if there's an
issue,

1126
00:56:54,994 --> 00:56:57,392
and also, Marc Ronick: you know,
if Jeff
is doing like what I

1127
00:56:57,392 --> 00:57:00,518
was doing with the Star Wars
related merch
to his podcast,

1128
00:57:00,518 --> 00:57:05,102
you know, nothing on my, my
shirt says
podcast written

1129
00:57:05,102 --> 00:57:09,432
like the logo of Star Wars.
There's nothing that
says Star

1130
00:57:09,432 --> 00:57:11,964
Wars, so it's probably.. it
could be a little
more

1131
00:57:11,964 --> 00:57:15,008
difficult, a little more
challenging to be for them to


1132
00:57:15,016 --> 00:57:19,166
come at me for it, because it
doesn't, it, you know, it.. it


1133
00:57:19,174 --> 00:57:22,504
looks a little like Star Wars,
but it's really nothing, nothing

1134
00:57:22,504 --> 00:57:26,618

to do with it, but yeah, I
think I think where I was going

1135
00:57:26,618 --> 00:57:29,580
with
this was one great idea
is if you're going to do

1136
00:57:29,580 --> 00:57:32,140
something
like Jeff does,
yeah, add your podcast logo

1137
00:57:32,140 --> 00:57:34,832
somewhere.
I used
to do it sometimes,

1138
00:57:34,832 --> 00:57:38,070
encourage my clients to put it
on the sleeve,
put like your

1139
00:57:38,070 --> 00:57:41,763
logo on the sleeve there, or put
it small
underneath whatever

1140
00:57:41,763 --> 00:57:45,514
the main print is on the front
or the
back, but yeah, why

1141
00:57:45,514 --> 00:57:47,440
not, right?
Just, just so that when that


1142
00:57:47,448 --> 00:57:50,130
person puts it on every time,
they see that, and then


1143
00:57:50,138 --> 00:57:52,540
hopefully when others are
looking at that shirt, they see

1144
00:57:52,540 --> 00:57:55,250
that, and maybe it becomes a
conversation starter, and then


1145
00:57:55,258 --> 00:57:57,820
maybe you get another listener
out of it.

1146
00:57:57,820 --> 00:58:00,450
It's not the quickest
and
easiest way to get a new

1147
00:58:00,900 --> 00:58:03,756
listener, but it is a way to

help get the word out.

1148
00:58:03,756 --> 00:58:07,086
If you're going to sell merch
and you're
not going to make

1149
00:58:07,086 --> 00:58:11,000
your podcast the dominant thing
on the shirt,
at least make it

1150
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,409
something, put it somewhere
where someone could
see it, in

1151
00:58:14,409 --> 00:58:16,452
my opinion.
All right, listen, Ralph, we're

1152
00:58:16,452 --> 00:58:19,850
gonna have to save, because I
know we have a pretty big bag


1153
00:58:19,858 --> 00:58:22,836
here of mail, so we're gonna
have to save this, maybe for the

1154
00:58:22,836 --> 00:58:24,600

next one.
We could continue it, or we'll

1155
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:26,945
just reopen it another
day.
Ralph Estep Jr: Absolutely, I


1156
00:58:26,953 --> 00:58:27,943
think that's exactly what we'll
do.

1157
00:58:27,943 --> 00:58:29,822
That'll be fun, Marc Ronick:
awesome, cool.

1158
00:58:29,822 --> 00:58:32,174
So,
thank you all for a great
conversation today.

1159
00:58:32,174 --> 00:58:35,144
Remember
that tomorrow we have
our guest, Jody Krangle, joining

1160
00:58:35,144 --> 00:58:37,086
us.
Jody's
an old friend of mine,

1161
00:58:37,086 --> 00:58:39,644
an old Clubhouse friend of mine
as
well.

1162
00:58:39,644 --> 00:58:42,598
So, looking forward to that
conversation with her


1163
00:58:42,606 --> 00:58:45,858
tomorrow.
Join us 8am Eastern Time at

1164
00:58:45,858 --> 00:58:48,031
Podcasting Morning

show.com/join us.

1165
00:58:48,031 --> 00:58:51,874
So until then, make it a great
day, everybody.


1166
00:58:51,882 --> 00:58:52,450
Take care.