536. How to Create Podcast Interviews People Remember

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Ralph Estep Jr.: Well, good

morning, podcasters.

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Today is Thursday, june 11, 2026
and
today we've got Hall of

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Fame Podcaster Room.
Yes, that's our
second of the

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00:00:12,782 --> 00:00:15,651
week on the show, and we're
going to talk about
what

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separates a forgettable
interview from one that


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listeners remember for years.
So, if you're listening live on

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00:00:21,155 --> 00:00:23,170
Clubhouse, hit the share
button, top right hand side of

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the
screen, and share whatever
Clubhouse let you.

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If you want
to join us live on
the video, go to Podcasting

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00:00:28,433 --> 00:00:32,314
Morning
chat.com/join us.
And if you're catching us via

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podcast,
YouTube, LinkedIn,
etc. please share this episode

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with a fellow
podcaster.
Now, give me about 30 seconds,

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and we'll get things
going.
Thank you so much for being here

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today.
Audio Clip: The podcasting


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Ralph Estep Jr.: Well, good


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morning again, everyone.
Welcome to the podcasting

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morning show.

Thank you so much for being

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here.
I am your host today,
filling

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in for Mark Ronick, who
continues his adventure


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volunteering.
Now joining me on stage today,

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we've got DR. Fay,
Sid
Meadows, and joining us from the

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audience, we've got Ty

Tutoring, aka Knikki and John

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Domingo, and we've also got Dave

Jackson in the house, and Dr.

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is going to introduce him in
just a
few minutes.

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So, thank you for everyone being
here.

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We've got
an incredible show
for you this morning.

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You know that feeling
when you
listen to a podcast interview

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and the guest says
something
just stops you in your tracks?

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Well, guess what,
friends,
that doesn't happen by accident.

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It happens because the
host
did the work before the record

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button was ever pressed,
and
today we're going to learn

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exactly what that work order

looks like from someone who's

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been doing it at the highest

level for over 20 years.

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And before we get to today's
show, I
just want to remind

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everybody, if you're interested
in having
your show

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spotlighted on our show, we'd
love to hear from
you.

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We can go directly to Podcasting
Morning
show.com/spotlight

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just record a 62nd spot, send
that over to us
again.

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That's podcasting morning
show.com/spotlight So, DR. I


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have you introduce our guest
here this morning.

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DR: Absolutely, you know today

we are joined by someone who has

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shaped the way so many of us

think about podcasting.

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Dave Jackson is the founder of
the
School of Podcasting, a

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Hall of Fame podcast coach,
speaker,
consultant, and the

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author of Profit from Your
Podcast.

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He's
helped hundreds and
hundreds of podcasters plan,

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launch, grow,
and improve
their show, and he's done it

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with a kind of a
practical,
no-nonsense advice this industry

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kind of
desperately needs.
So, I am truly honored to

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welcome someone
who has had a
lasting impact on podcasting, on

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the podcasting
space, and
certainly my own work.

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So, please welcome Dave

Jackson.

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Hi, Dave.
Good to have you.

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Dave Jackson: Happy to be here.


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Always great to hang out with
you guys.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: So, Dave, for

anyone in our community who

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hasn't found you yet, give us

the 32nd version of your

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podcasting origin story.
I like
to start there.

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Dave Jackson: Boy, that's 30

seconds.

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That is not my strong suit.
Discovered podcasting in
2005

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Did a quick Google search for
it, and there was one and a


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half pages on podcasting at the
time, over the 20 years I


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learned what to do and what not
to do, and went from everywhere

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from, you know, making a
horrible version of the school


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of podcasting to cleaning it up
to at that time I was still


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teaching in the corporate world,
when that went away, because


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everybody already knew Microsoft
Office.

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I was like, I'd like to
get a
job in podcasting, and because

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of my podcast and the

connections I'd made, I got a

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job at Libsyn.
I was at Libsyn
for eight

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years, and two years ago I had
had enough of Libsyn,
loved

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the people over there, but
didn't love the direction they


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were going in, and became the
head of podcasting at Podpage,


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so that's..
I don't know if that was 30

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seconds, but that's as
close
as I can get.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: No, I think you

did a fantastic job, Dave.

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So, let's start at the very

beginning of the process.

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When you agree to have a guest
on
your show, what happens

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next?
I want you to walk us through


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exactly what you do before that
interview even takes place.

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Dave Jackson: Yeah, so I will

have done some research, and

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I've learned I just did a couple

where I didn't do my research,

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and I was like, "Oh, Dave, this
is why you do your research.

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They had said some really cool

stuff on Facebook, and that's

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where I was like, "I need to go
back to doing pre-interviews

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just to eliminate the, you know.



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When you find out that the guest
you're interviewing about


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growing your show doesn't have a
website, you're like, man, that

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might be a red flag.
But once I get somebody, and

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I've most of
the time it's
somebody I've met in person, and

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then I go, ooh,
you got to
come on my show, and once

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they're here, I have to let

them know, okay, here's what

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we're going to talk about, not

so much the questions, but

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here's the topic we're going to
talk about, and like I had one

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woman on, they could have talked

about work-life balance, she

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could have talked about the

music industry, and I said no,

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we're the theme is find out what

your audience wants and give

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it to them, because she was
getting
her music streamed in

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Netflix, she was getting into
movies and
stuff, and making

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royalties on that, and I said,
so that's
really kind of

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that's a theme I talk about all
the time.

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Figure
out who your audience
is and give it to them, and

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that's how
you went from not
making any money in the music

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industry.
She
had been on two different

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record labels, and welcome to
the
record industry, she got

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dropped twice, but she was
making money
now, and I said,

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well, let's examine that, and
when I did, it
was like, oh, I

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talk about that all the time.
So I let her know,
like, we're

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not going to be talking about
work-life balance,
we're not

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going to be talking about this
and that.

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So just
kind of let them know
where they're going.

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If it's usually
the people I
talk to have already been on a

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podcast, but
if they haven't,
I will explain to them it's not

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radio.
If you
mess up on anything,

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just pause 10 seconds and we can
do it
again.

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I let them know who my audience
is, so if you want to
get kind

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of nerdy, my audience loves
nerdy, so feel free to go
into

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the weeds and talk about
kilobits per second and bit


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rates and all that stuff.
So I give them my idea of why

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they're
here, who's listening,
and kind of where we're going.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: DR. I know

you've got a question, so go

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ahead, DR. DR: Yeah, yeah, so
you know
there's like two

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schools of thought here.
Do you give your,
the person

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who you're interviewing, do you
give them
the questions

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beforehand?
Dave Jackson: I don't.

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I give
them a topic like, hey,
today we're going to talk about

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matching your matching your
content to your audience, that's

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the theme.
So I've kind of, they know where

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we're going to go.

Also, do that.

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I'll be like, "Hey, I'm going to
say thanks
for coming on the

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show.
You can say, "Thanks for being

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here.
And
the first question is

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going to be, "When did you know
you
wanted to start a podcast?

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Always let them know what the

first one is, just so they can

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start thinking about that,

right?

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And it only happened, I think
it's twice, so not a lot,
but

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I used to give people the
questions, and then I had


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somebody go, Thanks, Dave.
Boy, that's a great question.

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I
remember when I, and they
just completely written out

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their
answers beforehand, and
I was like, this is, and so I

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was
like, all right, well,
that's one person.

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And then it happened
a couple
years later, and somebody did

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the same thing.

Thanks, Dave.

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I'm so glad to be here.
And I was like, okay, in
the

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future I'm just gonna say this
is why you're here.

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Here's
the topic, and then
because if you don't give them

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any idea,
then you're relying
on your guest's ability to do

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improv,
and some people are
not great at that.

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So I kind of let them know

what's going on.

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I'll give an example.
Right now, I'm trying
to get

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Tom Buck on my show, and Tom
could talk about gear, he


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could talk about all sorts of
stuff, but I love that Tom has


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integrity, and so I'm like, hey,
I heard you talk about how you


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handle reviews and how you do
this and that, and on another


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show he was on, he was
explaining how there are


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companies that do really like
pretty black hat stuff, where


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they're like, "Hey, will you go,
you know, we'll give you 20


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bucks if you go leave us a
review?

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And he says no, and I
was
like, "Okay, I'm like, I would

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love to have you come on
and
talk about integrity and why

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it's important.
And so we keep
kind of almost

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getting it there, you know, how
you do that via
email, and

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then he gets busy and I get
busy, but that, that would
be

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an example of I'd love to have
Tom Buck on to talk about


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integrity, and then from there
you can obviously expand out,


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but that's the theme I'm going
for.

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Ralph Estep Jr.: Cool, Dave, I

got a question for you.

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So, you talk about researching a
guest
before the interview,

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what does that research actually
look
like?

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How deep do you go into that
research?

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Dave Jackson: I usually just go
into either Google or I use

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Pocket Cast, and I will type in,

you know, Ralph Estep Jr.

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interview, and then I'll see how

many come up, and I make a

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playlist of those, and then when

I'm listening, the thing I

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love about Pocket Cast is you
can
make bookmarks just like

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an audible, and so any good

question, I will make a

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bookmark, and then you can

leave, like the bookmark might

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be called great question, no

follow up, because the whoever

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was interviewing them asked a

great question, I'm waiting for

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the follow up question, and

there wasn't one, and I was

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like, oh, I gotta go back and

find out what happened, and for

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me, I remember when Jordan

Harbinger from the Jordan

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Harbinger show had started it,

he had left his old show, and

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that it was a bit of a debacle,
and he was in a legal thing,

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and so people had kind of asked
him,
and he'd be like, well,

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I'm not really sure I can talk
about
that, or whatever, and I

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went further, I.
Actually, was like,
well, did

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this happen, or then, and
finally he got to a point,


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he's like, I cannot, not, I'm
not sure if I showed, he was


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like, no, no, we're as far back
as we can go, and so, yeah,


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listening to other episodes, and
then there are times when I


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always say, if you can ask
different questions, because if

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you want, I just had a weird
situation happened a couple


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weeks ago, where I decided I'm
going to try something new.

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I'm
going to batch interview,
so I went to Pod Match, and I

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had
four almost back to back
to back interviews with people,

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and I
didn't do any research
on them.

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I was just like, "Hey, if you

want to have me, I'm going on

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your show.
And so I had four
interviews

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in one night, and I'm here to
tell you, I almost
thought

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there was like a, like a box on
the wall in case of Dave


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Jackson interview break, and
here's your 10 questions,


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because I remember question
number three for all of them was

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the same, which was some
podcasts fail and some don't.


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What's the difference, because a
lot of them die after episode


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seven, and when I heard that,
like, the third time, I guess


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00:11:00,195 --> 00:11:02,820
somebody's getting these out of
ChatGPT or something like that,

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so if you're, you want your
audience to share it, you got to

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00:11:06,370 --> 00:11:09,350

ask different questions, but
on the other hand, there are

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00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:12,575
some
questions, it's like if
I'm going to see Lynyrd Skynyrd,

214
00:11:12,575 --> 00:11:16,160
I
want to hear Free Bird, and
so every guest has their Free

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00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,392
Bird
answer, right, you're
like, oh, that's so good, my

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00:11:19,392 --> 00:11:22,810
audience has
to hear that, and
so I interviewed Justin Moore,

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00:11:22,810 --> 00:11:26,070
who
wrote the book Sponsor
Magnet, and I listened to like

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00:11:26,070 --> 00:11:28,018
three or
four interviews,
looking for something that

219
00:11:28,018 --> 00:11:30,784
somebody didn't
ask him, and
they were all pretty good

220
00:11:30,784 --> 00:11:33,487
interviews, and they
were all
really good answers, and I, when

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00:11:33,487 --> 00:11:36,080
he showed up, I
said, Justin,
I hate to do this to you, and

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00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,434
he's like, what, I
go, dude,
I'm gonna walk you through your

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00:11:38,434 --> 00:11:41,598
greatest hits, I
go, because
my audience hasn't heard those

224
00:11:41,598 --> 00:11:45,230
yet, so I also then
didn't
expect Justin to share it,

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00:11:45,230 --> 00:11:46,999
because it was his greatest

hits.

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00:11:46,999 --> 00:11:49,000
His audience has already heard
that stuff.

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00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,649
So, let's get
into the
details.

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00:11:50,649 --> 00:11:54,109
So, how do you prepare yourself,
both mentally
and technically,

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00:11:54,109 --> 00:11:57,268
before that guest joins in?
Is there a
ritual that you go

230
00:11:57,268 --> 00:11:58,573
through, Dave?
Is there some things that
you

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00:11:58,573 --> 00:11:59,790
do?
You check this, you do that.

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00:11:59,790 --> 00:12:03,767
What does that look like
for
you, for me, my perfect guest is

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00:12:03,767 --> 00:12:07,180
someone who is either
has a
really good because of my

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00:12:07,180 --> 00:12:11,020
podcast story, so I've done

this, and now I've got sponsors,

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or I've done this, and it grew

my audience by 5x whatever that

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00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:17,680
is, and it's something my

audience can do, and hopefully

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00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:19,765
reproduce the results.
There's
that.

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00:12:19,765 --> 00:12:23,225
There are, in some cases I'm
interviewing somebody about


239
00:12:23,233 --> 00:12:26,413
their technology, or if it's
just an inspirational story.

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So
I just got a the other day,
I pulled out a coffee mug, and


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00:12:31,701 --> 00:12:36,265
there's a, I believe his name is
Pedro, I'm like 90% sure that,


242
00:12:36,273 --> 00:12:40,759
but he does my stuttering life,
so it's a guy who has a pretty


243
00:12:40,767 --> 00:12:44,365
bad stutter that does a podcast
about, like, hey, this is what


244
00:12:44,373 --> 00:12:46,843
happens.
I stutter, and I looked at the

245
00:12:46,843 --> 00:12:49,216
coffee mic.
I've never
had him on my show.

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00:12:49,216 --> 00:12:52,956
I go, that would be an
inspirational story
of, like,

247
00:12:52,956 --> 00:12:56,422
hey, you person that doesn't
have a stutter, and
you're

248
00:12:56,422 --> 00:12:58,961
sitting here worrying if anybody
would listen to me, and,
oh,

249
00:12:58,961 --> 00:13:00,842
I'm, I might look silly if I do
that.

250
00:13:00,842 --> 00:13:04,054
This guy stutters, and
he's
got a podcast, so get off your

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00:13:04,054 --> 00:13:06,700
butt, turn on the
microphone,
and start a podcast.

252
00:13:06,700 --> 00:13:10,600
So it kind of varies, but

they're all.. it's kind of one

253
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,980
of those things where, when I

talk to someone or hear about

254
00:13:14,980 --> 00:13:19,924
it, I go, oh, you know what, Ken

Blanchard, Kim New Love,

255
00:13:19,924 --> 00:13:22,825
Ralph.. like I'm thinking of my
audience, and I'm like, what

256
00:13:22,825 --> 00:13:25,105
would they say if I said, should

I have this person on my show?

257
00:13:25,105 --> 00:13:27,745
They're like, yes, please get

that person on the show.

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00:13:27,745 --> 00:13:30,505
Ralph Estep Jr.: So now you've

done the prep work, the guest is

259
00:13:30,505 --> 00:13:32,887
in the room, you hit that record

button, which I just realized

260
00:13:32,887 --> 00:13:34,345
I forgot to do on my
broadcaster.


261
00:13:34,353 --> 00:13:36,640
So hopefully eCamm will make a
great recording today.

262
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,178
But Dave,
what separates a
host who is just running through

263
00:13:40,178 --> 00:13:43,111
their
question list from a
host who is truly in the

264
00:13:43,111 --> 00:13:45,945
conversation,
because I think
that's a challenge for all of us

265
00:13:45,945 --> 00:13:48,151
as we're
preparing for an
interview like I was preparing

266
00:13:48,151 --> 00:13:50,104
for today.
I've
got a list of questions I

267
00:13:50,104 --> 00:13:52,506
want to ask you, but what
separates
that person just

268
00:13:52,506 --> 00:13:54,202
going through that list?
Because you mentioned
that

269
00:13:54,202 --> 00:13:56,434
when you did those batch
interviews, what separates that

270
00:13:56,434 --> 00:13:59,680
person from that host is truly
having a conversation.

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00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:04,285
Dave Jackson: Yeah, follow-up

questions, my favorite is where

272
00:14:04,285 --> 00:14:08,661
I will say an answer expecting a

follow up question, like I

273
00:14:08,661 --> 00:14:11,095
could say some.
In fact, there are
times where

274
00:14:11,095 --> 00:14:14,275
I'm going to do this eventually.
There are times when
I'm being

275
00:14:14,275 --> 00:14:17,605
interviewed and the person has
their questions and
they're

276
00:14:17,605 --> 00:14:20,945
like, great or excellent, let me
ask you this
question, which

277
00:14:20,945 --> 00:14:24,049
you don't say in a conversation,
you just ask the
question, and

278
00:14:24,049 --> 00:14:27,652
they've got their list, but I
just said something
that just

279
00:14:27,652 --> 00:14:30,442
screamed follow-up question, and
I swear someday,
because

280
00:14:30,442 --> 00:14:32,758
you'll, as the interviewee,
there are times
when you're

281
00:14:32,758 --> 00:14:35,472
like, oh, we're just going to go
through the
questions, okay, I

282
00:14:35,472 --> 00:14:38,244
get it, and I swear, the next
time I get into
one of those,

283
00:14:38,244 --> 00:14:41,500
I'm going to say something like,
and that's when
I shot a man

284
00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:43,975
for snoring, just so they can go
great.

285
00:14:43,975 --> 00:14:46,259
What was
your aha moment, you
know?

286
00:14:46,259 --> 00:14:48,495
And just go on to the next
thing.


287
00:14:48,503 --> 00:14:51,315
Mark Maron was at Podcast
Movement years ago, and somebody

288
00:14:51,315 --> 00:14:54,615

asked him, they go, "What's
the key to a great interview?

289
00:14:54,615 --> 00:14:57,625
And he
said, "Oh, it's easy
listening, and it really is.

290
00:14:57,625 --> 00:14:59,977
So I always
have kind of like
you, Ralph, I always.

291
00:14:59,977 --> 00:15:03,565
Have on my left hand
side, I
have a list of questions that I

292
00:15:03,565 --> 00:15:06,130
think, yeah, this should
be
enough for an interview.

293
00:15:06,130 --> 00:15:09,175
And then on the right hand side
I
have an empty piece of paper

294
00:15:09,175 --> 00:15:13,630
with a pen that doesn't click,

and then what I'm doing is, if I

295
00:15:13,630 --> 00:15:15,940
hear we were talking about the

woman before that was in the

296
00:15:15,940 --> 00:15:19,150
music industry, and she said I

knew I had to do something to

297
00:15:19,150 --> 00:15:22,300
stand out, and I just on my

piece of paper I just wrote down

298
00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:26,110
stand out and then I went back

to listening because the problem

299
00:15:26,110 --> 00:15:27,820
is you're trying, you're sitting

there going okay, I gotta

300
00:15:27,820 --> 00:15:30,490
remember to ask standing out

while you're listening and then

301
00:15:30,490 --> 00:15:33,025
she says something else and

you're like okay, standing out

302
00:15:33,025 --> 00:15:35,485
and the price of whatever,

standing out and the price

303
00:15:35,485 --> 00:15:37,675
standing out in the, and you're
still trying to listen, so if

304
00:15:37,675 --> 00:15:40,615
you just write it down, I'm not
writing down the question, I'm

305
00:15:40,615 --> 00:15:42,253
just writing down enough to

trigger.

306
00:15:42,253 --> 00:15:45,523
Oh, yeah, I need to ask her
about standing out, and
that's

307
00:15:45,523 --> 00:15:48,333
nine times out of 10.
Your follow-up questions are


308
00:15:48,341 --> 00:15:51,559
better than the ones you had on
your pre-made paper.

309
00:15:51,559 --> 00:15:54,891
And there
are times when I've
had one question that I started

310
00:15:54,891 --> 00:15:58,354
off
with, and the rest were
just follow-ups, because they've

311
00:15:58,354 --> 00:16:01,400

unleashed this story, and
you're like, well, wait a

312
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,745
minute, what
were you thinking
when you did that, and like,

313
00:16:03,745 --> 00:16:06,220
well, what did
that feel like,
and etc, etc.

314
00:16:06,220 --> 00:16:09,493
And you're walking them through
a story that's nine times out

315
00:16:09,493 --> 00:16:12,310
of 10 better than what's your

favorite microphone.

316
00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:15,818
So it's one of those things
where really
listening and

317
00:16:15,818 --> 00:16:19,030
asking follow-up questions and
asking the
follow-up questions

318
00:16:19,030 --> 00:16:22,375
that your audience would ask if
they were
in the chair.

319
00:16:22,375 --> 00:16:23,845
Ralph Estep Jr.: DR, I'm going

to go to you in just one second,

320
00:16:23,845 --> 00:16:26,245
but I just want to mention

something Gabe said in the chat

321
00:16:26,245 --> 00:16:28,315
on club, as he said, yes, one of

the best things that I've

322
00:16:28,315 --> 00:16:31,585
learned and developed in my time

as a host is to be an active

323
00:16:31,585 --> 00:16:33,265
listener.
And Dave, how does
that strike

324
00:16:33,265 --> 00:16:35,185
you?
Do you agree with that?

325
00:16:35,275 --> 00:16:38,605
Dave Jackson: Oh, absolutely.

It's, it's really because what

326
00:16:38,605 --> 00:16:42,130
happens is you're you don't

realize how your brain is just

327
00:16:42,130 --> 00:16:46,450
going crazy trying to remember

as you listen, and then it's

328
00:16:46,450 --> 00:16:50,410
like having two kids, right, one

under each arm, and then

329
00:16:50,410 --> 00:16:53,860
somebody hands you another kid,
you're like, ah, you know, and

330
00:16:53,860 --> 00:16:56,860
so by writing these things down,

you don't have to hold on to

331
00:16:56,860 --> 00:16:59,200
them, and you can just go back

to listening.

332
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:00,613
Ralph Estep Jr.: Go ahead, DR. I

think you've got a question

333
00:17:00,613 --> 00:17:03,880
for Dave.
DR: Yeah, so you've been


334
00:17:03,888 --> 00:17:06,381
interviewing people for many,
many years.

335
00:17:06,381 --> 00:17:10,992
Is there anything
that stands
out to you as the interview that

336
00:17:10,992 --> 00:17:15,679
maybe you went
into it really
not expecting too much, and man,

337
00:17:15,679 --> 00:17:19,165
it just blew you
away?
Dave Jackson: That's a good


338
00:17:19,173 --> 00:17:20,775
question.
DR has stumped Dave.

339
00:17:20,775 --> 00:17:22,627
I love it.
Well, because most of the
time

340
00:17:22,627 --> 00:17:25,555
I know the answer before I ask
the question, or I have a


341
00:17:25,563 --> 00:17:28,053
pretty good idea, so I'm usually
not surprised.

342
00:17:28,053 --> 00:17:34,105
The one that, in
terms of it,
blew me away is I had had, you

343
00:17:34,105 --> 00:17:37,372
know, some quote
big names on
my show that everybody knew, and

344
00:17:37,372 --> 00:17:40,402
you know,
people were like,
okay, you know, that was cool.

345
00:17:40,402 --> 00:17:44,062
And then I
brought in this guy
named Glenn Hebert from the

346
00:17:44,062 --> 00:17:50,173
Horse Radio
Network, and yeah,
it was it, and he came on and

347
00:17:50,173 --> 00:17:53,353
gave, like,
not only
strategies, but strategies that

348
00:17:53,353 --> 00:17:56,699
worked, and so,
like, at the
School of Podcasting, Glenn is a

349
00:17:56,699 --> 00:17:59,725
verb,
there, I'm like, well,
how did you do that, and, like,

350
00:17:59,725 --> 00:18:02,349
I,
Glenn, the geeked it, and
so that was a case.

351
00:18:02,349 --> 00:18:04,435
Guns been on my
show, probably
five or six times.

352
00:18:04,435 --> 00:18:06,115
He doesn't even have to
ask
anymore.

353
00:18:06,115 --> 00:18:07,939
He'll just be like, "Hey, I got
something.

354
00:18:07,939 --> 00:18:09,738
I'm like,
"All right, schedule
it, you know.

355
00:18:09,738 --> 00:18:13,210
And just the stuff that
people
are like, "Man, I never thought

356
00:18:13,210 --> 00:18:17,060
of that, or like one of
his
things was he went to - he's all

357
00:18:17,060 --> 00:18:20,140
about horses, so he went to

like the top horse magazines,

358
00:18:20,140 --> 00:18:23,290
and he said, look in the back,

he goes, the little itty bitty

359
00:18:23,290 --> 00:18:26,980
ads, he goes, because those

people have a budget, and he

360
00:18:26,980 --> 00:18:30,670
goes, and then call the magazine

and find out how much it would

361
00:18:30,670 --> 00:18:34,360
be to advertise in the little

itty bitty spaces, he goes,

362
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:37,180
because then you know how much

those people are paying, he

363
00:18:37,180 --> 00:18:39,925
goes, and then you go to those

sponsors and undercut the

364
00:18:39,925 --> 00:18:43,885
magazine, and I was, it's just

basic math, but everybody went

365
00:18:43,885 --> 00:18:46,294
just like DR. did.
You're like,
oh, I never

366
00:18:46,294 --> 00:18:49,237
thought of that, because you
want, if you're
sponsors, you

367
00:18:49,237 --> 00:18:52,725
need somebody with a budget, and
it was stuff like
they were

368
00:18:52,725 --> 00:18:55,753
like, oh, and then he'd say
another one, like, oh,
I never

369
00:18:55,753 --> 00:18:58,483
thought of that.
So that was one where I had a

370
00:18:58,483 --> 00:19:01,840
lot of
comments, or like, who
was that guy, so it's

371
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,780
interesting.
I know
John Lee Dumas, who's

372
00:19:04,780 --> 00:19:06,935
got a really..
I'll put it this way,
John

373
00:19:06,935 --> 00:19:10,048
made so much money with this
podcast, he moved to Puerto


374
00:19:10,056 --> 00:19:12,220
Rico, so that's a successful
podcast.

375
00:19:12,220 --> 00:19:16,440
And he was mentioned in
Time
magazine, and he said he was

376
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,520
really obviously proud of

himself, you know, being

377
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,098
mentioned in Time magazine.
He
goes, didn't move the

378
00:19:21,098 --> 00:19:22,818
needle.
He goes, appearing on Pat

379
00:19:22,818 --> 00:19:25,327
Flynn's
show, though.
He goes, because you've got that

380
00:19:25,327 --> 00:19:26,383
relationship
with your
audience.

381
00:19:26,383 --> 00:19:29,359
He goes, I got more juice from
Pat Flynn's
audience than I

382
00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,421
did being in Time magazine.
So that's a nice
statement to

383
00:19:33,421 --> 00:19:35,755
that relationship that
podcasters have with their


384
00:19:35,763 --> 00:19:37,298
audience.
Ralph Estep Jr.: So, Dave, I


385
00:19:37,306 --> 00:19:39,870
have a follow-up to that.
What do you think is the biggest

386
00:19:39,870 --> 00:19:43,142

mistake you see podcast hosts
make in the middle of an


387
00:19:43,150 --> 00:19:47,704
interview, Dave Jackson: in the
middle, not
editing, really,

388
00:19:47,704 --> 00:19:52,042
it's where somebody goes, so
have you ever
had a time when

389
00:19:52,042 --> 00:19:55,528
you didn't think you were gonna
be successful,
and you know

390
00:19:55,528 --> 00:19:59,134
you're worried about it, and
then you went, and
the person

391
00:19:59,134 --> 00:20:02,190
goes, no.
Not really, and I'm like, okay.

392
00:20:02,190 --> 00:20:05,096
Why did you
keep that question
there, unless it's surprising

393
00:20:05,096 --> 00:20:07,596
that this person
never felt
that way?

394
00:20:07,596 --> 00:20:11,038
You know, there are times when I
think
that's the big one, is

395
00:20:11,038 --> 00:20:13,966
editing, because there are times
when I
go, I'll just hear

396
00:20:13,966 --> 00:20:16,270
things.
When I edit my interviews, 90%

397
00:20:16,270 --> 00:20:21,217
of
what I'm cutting out is not
the guest, it's me, because I

398
00:20:21,217 --> 00:20:24,836
will
give a huge, sometimes
way too much background

399
00:20:24,836 --> 00:20:27,380
information.

I'll be like, hey, I know there

400
00:20:27,380 --> 00:20:30,290
was a time when you tried this

and it led to that, and that was

401
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,320
really cool, and you did this,

and you admitted it, and then,

402
00:20:33,380 --> 00:20:37,220
and then finally I will say, so
what are you going to do when

403
00:20:37,220 --> 00:20:39,269
you did it?
Right, I'll finally
get to the

404
00:20:39,269 --> 00:20:41,785
question, and I'll listen back,
and I go, okay, my
audience

405
00:20:41,785 --> 00:20:44,168
doesn't need to hear me think
through the question.


406
00:20:44,176 --> 00:20:47,770
Let's get rid of all that and
just get to the question.

407
00:20:47,770 --> 00:20:51,765
So, I
think editing.. there
are times when I mean, I have

408
00:20:51,765 --> 00:20:55,036
probably
listened to 10
episodes of Joe Rogan, and every

409
00:20:55,036 --> 00:20:58,580
time I get done
with one, I
go, that was a good episode.

410
00:20:58,580 --> 00:21:01,323
It would have been a
great
episode if they'd cut out about,

411
00:21:01,323 --> 00:21:04,950
you know, 60% of that,
because
Joe goes all over the place.

412
00:21:05,340 --> 00:21:06,570
Ralph Estep Jr.: BC, I'm gonna

come to you in a second, but

413
00:21:06,660 --> 00:21:09,000
John Domingo, you and I both

know him well.

414
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,788
Dave, he's asked a question here
in the chat.

415
00:21:10,788 --> 00:21:13,156
He
said, I just watched an
interview where the interviewer

416
00:21:13,156 --> 00:21:16,005
kept interrupting the guests
with, there's no evidence of


417
00:21:16,013 --> 00:21:18,896
that, the guests finally had
enough and walked out.

418
00:21:18,896 --> 00:21:22,229
How do
you handle interviewing
someone you disagree with or

419
00:21:22,229 --> 00:21:26,127
disagrees
with you.
Dave Jackson: I just did one, a

420
00:21:26,127 --> 00:21:29,827
person that had, he thinks way
outside the box, and I just


421
00:21:29,835 --> 00:21:33,804
went, "Well, wait a minute.
So, are you like he said he was

422
00:21:33,804 --> 00:21:36,608
talking about how you know
people do like book clubs, and


423
00:21:36,616 --> 00:21:40,544
you'll show up and a whole bunch
of people talk about a book, and

424
00:21:40,544 --> 00:21:44,155

his idea was he goes in, and
what I didn't realize is he was

425
00:21:44,155 --> 00:21:47,074
setting these up ahead of time.
The thing I'd heard originally


426
00:21:47,082 --> 00:21:50,009
was he just walks in and starts
talking about his podcast, and


427
00:21:50,017 --> 00:21:52,473
so that's what I did.
I said, I understand you do

428
00:21:52,473 --> 00:21:54,975
these things
where you go out
with a projector and you, you

429
00:21:54,975 --> 00:21:58,559
blast
your logo on the wall,
and I go, are you just walking

430
00:21:58,559 --> 00:22:01,639
into
Cracker Barrel and going,
hey, let's talk about my show,

431
00:22:01,639 --> 00:22:04,276
and he
started laughing, and
he's like, "No, no, that's not

432
00:22:04,276 --> 00:22:05,912
how it
works.
I'm like, "Okay, because that's

433
00:22:05,912 --> 00:22:07,611
what it kind of looked
like on
Facebook.

434
00:22:07,611 --> 00:22:10,715
So that was a case where I was
like, "That
would not be

435
00:22:10,715 --> 00:22:12,997
something I'd recommend.
He's like, "No, no, I
work

436
00:22:12,997 --> 00:22:15,879
with the venue, we set it up, we
have a bunch of people,
we're

437
00:22:15,879 --> 00:22:18,907
all going to talk about this
thing, and I was like,
"Okay,

438
00:22:18,907 --> 00:22:22,325
but if somebody, instead of me
being the antagonist,
right,

439
00:22:22,325 --> 00:22:25,990
so Ralph says something like
yellow and blue make red,
and

440
00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:28,709
I'm like, okay, Ralph, that's an
interesting point.


441
00:22:28,717 --> 00:22:31,876
What would you say to the person
that said yellow and blue make


442
00:22:31,884 --> 00:22:34,080
green?
So it's not me, it's the other

443
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,837
person that's gonna push
back
on you.

444
00:22:35,837 --> 00:22:39,077
So that's another way of doing
that, and the other
thing was,

445
00:22:39,077 --> 00:22:42,938
I saw that interview, they were
both talking over each
other,

446
00:22:42,938 --> 00:22:46,017
a, that's a nightmare for the
editor, and b, somebody's


447
00:22:46,025 --> 00:22:48,987
again, what's the key
ingredient, you got to listen,


448
00:22:48,995 --> 00:22:53,739
so let that person make their
point, and then go, okay, that's

449
00:22:53,739 --> 00:22:57,321

very interesting, what
evidence do you have to point to

450
00:22:57,321 --> 00:23:00,108
that,
and when they say, oh,
there's tons of evidence,

451
00:23:00,108 --> 00:23:01,686
there's tons,
there's miles of
evidence.

452
00:23:01,686 --> 00:23:04,719
She'd go great, give me one that
drove
me nuts.

453
00:23:04,719 --> 00:23:09,124
I just heard the woman who runs
Inception Point AI, and
she

454
00:23:09,124 --> 00:23:12,464
said, Oh, we've got millions of
great shows, they're really


455
00:23:12,472 --> 00:23:15,617
popular, but I'm like, great, I
just wanted the host to go name

456
00:23:15,617 --> 00:23:19,009
one, give us one that's a good
show, and they didn't, and I was

457
00:23:19,009 --> 00:23:21,907

like, that's an example of a
follow-up one that was like, if

458
00:23:21,907 --> 00:23:24,529
I ever interview her, that's
the question I'm asking her.

459
00:23:24,529 --> 00:23:28,291
I've
been tempted to reach out
to her to her and go, "Hey, can

460
00:23:28,291 --> 00:23:30,889
we do
an interview?
It might be a bit of a gotcha,

461
00:23:30,889 --> 00:23:33,402
because I'm not
really a fan
of your company, just to be

462
00:23:33,402 --> 00:23:35,556
completely honest, to
see if
she would come on and go, "Look,

463
00:23:35,556 --> 00:23:38,684
if you can convince me,
you
might convince others, but on

464
00:23:38,684 --> 00:23:41,259
the other hand, I don't want

to give that platform a

465
00:23:41,319 --> 00:23:44,415
platform, so BC, Ralph Estep
Jr.: I am going to
come to

466
00:23:44,415 --> 00:23:46,055
you, but I want to put, I want
to say something.

467
00:23:46,055 --> 00:23:47,899
Tim
Bryan put in the chat.
This is for Dave.

468
00:23:47,899 --> 00:23:50,883
It says, "Tell him Tim
and
Kyle want to hear the story of

469
00:23:50,883 --> 00:23:54,758
Binky and The Wiz.
Dave Jackson: Binky and The Wiz

470
00:23:54,758 --> 00:23:57,950
is every 100 episodes, and this
is just a Dave thing, because


471
00:23:57,958 --> 00:24:02,358
everybody goes, "What do I do?
And I decided to throw out my, I

472
00:24:02,358 --> 00:24:05,716

guess, my regular kind of
show, and I do something

473
00:24:05,716 --> 00:24:09,482
different,
and I got to 400
and I still want to teach people

474
00:24:09,482 --> 00:24:12,737
about
podcasting.
So, what I did was, I invented a

475
00:24:12,737 --> 00:24:16,517
story of Binky and
The Wiz,
who are radio guys.

476
00:24:16,517 --> 00:24:20,495
So, these are your typical, and
the
fun part was Binky is kind

477
00:24:20,495 --> 00:24:23,558
of, as in an exaggerated version
of
David Lee Roth.

478
00:24:23,558 --> 00:24:27,993
The Wiz was his sidekick, and
The Wiz has a
stutter, and

479
00:24:27,993 --> 00:24:30,977
then they have their, you know,
there's always
a woman in

480
00:24:30,977 --> 00:24:33,600
there, and that was, if I
remember right, Miss
Fatima,

481
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:38,085
and all she said was, Binky, you
so crazy, and then
Binky was

482
00:24:38,085 --> 00:24:41,575
like, Hey, what's up guys, all
right, we're gonna do
anything

483
00:24:41,575 --> 00:24:44,513
of that thing, and then The Wiz
was just..

484
00:24:44,513 --> 00:24:48,536
I think I'm
not really sure
what's going in that house

485
00:24:48,536 --> 00:24:51,584
thing, and so I wrote
out a
script, and Binky and The Wiz

486
00:24:51,584 --> 00:24:56,040
came in, and they captured
me
and threw me in a closet, and I

487
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,540
called my, my now ex-wife to

get me out of the closet, and I

488
00:24:59,540 --> 00:25:01,556
said.
These crazy radio DJs have


489
00:25:01,564 --> 00:25:04,471
thrown me in a closet, I can't
get out.

490
00:25:04,471 --> 00:25:08,041
They've taken over my
show.
And then she named off like 10

491
00:25:08,041 --> 00:25:12,365
or 15, like just really
weird
radio names that aren't real but

492
00:25:12,365 --> 00:25:15,665
sound like they are.
So
that was Binky and The Wiz,

493
00:25:15,665 --> 00:25:18,515
and like 400 was a good one, 500

wasn't.

494
00:25:18,515 --> 00:25:22,799
I did a thing about Groundhog
Day, where I kept
waking up.

495
00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:25,519
900 was pretty cool, because I
interviewed Jesus.


496
00:25:25,527 --> 00:25:28,774
That was fun talking about the
family business, you know.

497
00:25:28,774 --> 00:25:32,845
So,
every 100 episodes I throw
out my format and do something


498
00:25:32,853 --> 00:25:35,120
wacky, put that winky in the
whiz.

499
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:37,220
Ralph Estep Jr.: Before I go to
BC, I just want to make a plug

500
00:25:37,220 --> 00:25:39,320
for tomorrow on the show,

because you mentioned something,

501
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,450
Dave, and I don't want you to

spend a lot of time talking

502
00:25:41,450 --> 00:25:43,850
about, but you said ex-wives, so

tomorrow on this show we're

503
00:25:43,850 --> 00:25:46,640
going to talk about how your

podcasting journey affects your

504
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,562
family, so make sure you join us

tomorrow on the show, because

505
00:25:49,562 --> 00:25:51,310
it puts a lot of strain and
stress
on people.

506
00:25:51,310 --> 00:25:53,211
I don't know if you want to
comment real quick,
Dave, but

507
00:25:53,211 --> 00:25:55,315
I do want to go to BC here in a
second, but that's
what I'm

508
00:25:55,315 --> 00:25:57,662
gonna be talking about tomorrow.
Did you have a quick,
quick

509
00:25:57,662 --> 00:25:59,630
quote about that?
Dave Jackson: Yeah, be careful,

510
00:25:59,630 --> 00:26:03,227
because a, the internet writes
in ink, so I did a show, and I


511
00:26:03,235 --> 00:26:06,070
decided, for whatever reason, I
was going to work kind of blue,

512
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:07,475
you know, a little little
naughty.

513
00:26:07,475 --> 00:26:11,105
And I did an episode
about if
the Amish don't have

514
00:26:11,150 --> 00:26:14,206
electricity, that means there's
no Amish porn.

515
00:26:14,206 --> 00:26:18,548
And then I had all these double
entendres, you
know, raise my

516
00:26:18,548 --> 00:26:22,064
barn, you know, plow my bean
field, all this
stuff, and I

517
00:26:22,064 --> 00:26:25,366
started dating a woman who
became my now ex-wife,
and I

518
00:26:25,366 --> 00:26:28,586
get to meet the kids finally,
and the kids Google
Dave

519
00:26:28,586 --> 00:26:31,820
Jackson, and what came up, you
guessed it, Amish porn, and


520
00:26:31,828 --> 00:26:35,610
who they then, of course, told
Grandma, who luckily thought it

521
00:26:35,610 --> 00:26:40,022
was hilarious, but yeah, be
careful when I was doing a show,

522
00:26:40,022 --> 00:26:42,813

and I was married.
She didn't want to be talked

523
00:26:42,813 --> 00:26:45,265
about, so if I
ever brought up
my wife, it was always the

524
00:26:45,265 --> 00:26:47,505
nurse.
I never said
her name until we

525
00:26:47,505 --> 00:26:50,414
got married, and she said,
'Okay, you can say
Diane now,

526
00:26:50,414 --> 00:26:52,910
and I'm like, 'Okay.
But realize your family didn't


527
00:26:52,918 --> 00:26:56,355
ask to be on the internet, so be
very, very careful about that.


528
00:26:56,363 --> 00:26:58,520
And I'm sure they'll talk about
that tomorrow.

529
00:26:58,550 --> 00:26:59,857
Ralph Estep Jr.: That's

exactly.. go ahead, BC.

530
00:26:59,857 --> 00:27:02,450
I apologize for putting you off
a
little bit, but Dave walked

531
00:27:02,450 --> 00:27:04,040
right into that, so I want to

make sure we talk about that.

532
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,900
But go ahead, BC.
BC Babbles: Sure, no, you're


533
00:27:05,908 --> 00:27:06,941
good.
That's quite, that's quite a

534
00:27:06,941 --> 00:27:08,820
section to follow up on.
But a
little while ago, we

535
00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:12,095
were talking about sponsors, and
I
liked your approach to

536
00:27:12,095 --> 00:27:14,478
finding magazines, or magazines,
or
publications, and seeing

537
00:27:14,478 --> 00:27:17,930
who the advertisers were.
For those who
may have an

538
00:27:17,930 --> 00:27:21,249
ideal sponsor they want to reach
out to, but they
don't know if

539
00:27:21,249 --> 00:27:22,742
they aren't advertising anywhere
else.

540
00:27:22,742 --> 00:27:25,955
What
kind of additional
research would you say is a good

541
00:27:25,955 --> 00:27:27,760

approach?
Would you just look up their

542
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,445
annual reports, or like,
how
would you say to find out

543
00:27:31,445 --> 00:27:34,865
whether or not this ideal brand
that I think works with me

544
00:27:35,285 --> 00:27:37,565
actually has the budget to work
with me?

545
00:27:37,565 --> 00:27:40,595
Dave Jackson: Yeah, first of

all, I would go read this book,

546
00:27:40,595 --> 00:27:42,308
Sponsor Magnet, by Justin Moore.



547
00:27:42,316 --> 00:27:45,848
If that's your, if that's your
goal, is partnerships, because


548
00:27:45,856 --> 00:27:49,169
everything I'm going to say is
from this book.

549
00:27:49,169 --> 00:27:53,510
He was saying,
look at their
social, and because many times

550
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:57,786
companies
will have, like, oh,
it's time for the spring sheet

551
00:27:57,786 --> 00:28:00,466
sale, and
then it's time for
this or that, will, like,

552
00:28:00,466 --> 00:28:04,157
whatever it is,
based on the
year, and then you can reach out

553
00:28:04,157 --> 00:28:06,975
to them and say,
"Hey, I saw
last year where you guys did

554
00:28:06,975 --> 00:28:11,739
the, you know, 10 for
10 sale
for the blah blah blah, are you

555
00:28:11,739 --> 00:28:14,885
guys doing that again?

And then just, it's kind of like

556
00:28:14,885 --> 00:28:17,855
doing a good interview, you've

done the work to see what

557
00:28:17,855 --> 00:28:21,245
they're doing, and then you go,
if you're looking for partners

558
00:28:21,245 --> 00:28:24,793
to promote that particular

campaign, you know.

559
00:28:24,793 --> 00:28:28,696
I've got your target audience
over here,
and just to get the

560
00:28:28,696 --> 00:28:31,229
ball rolling.
And then what Justin
talks

561
00:28:31,229 --> 00:28:36,655
about in his book is we're so
used to saying things like, I


562
00:28:36,663 --> 00:28:41,546
have a lovely woman from Amazon
on my thing, and she's giving me

563
00:28:41,546 --> 00:28:45,609

reminders, but we're so used
to, you know, oh, I need x

564
00:28:45,609 --> 00:28:48,212
amount of
money for per
episode, which, which kind of

565
00:28:48,212 --> 00:28:51,212
makes sense, but
he said you
really want to sit down and find

566
00:28:51,212 --> 00:28:53,125
out what are they
trying to
do, because there are different

567
00:28:53,125 --> 00:28:56,513
types of campaigns,
there's
like, we love people that are

568
00:28:56,513 --> 00:28:58,882
like, we just want to
get our
word out there, just a branding

569
00:28:58,882 --> 00:29:02,040
play, please say our
name on
our website a million times,

570
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,691
that's all we want.
And
then you have sometimes

571
00:29:04,691 --> 00:29:08,171
smaller companies that are like,
well,
we're selling jeans, and

572
00:29:08,171 --> 00:29:10,775
we're going to ask you every
three
days, how many, you

573
00:29:10,775 --> 00:29:13,075
know, how many times have you
run the ad,
because we've only

574
00:29:13,075 --> 00:29:17,108
sold two pairs of jeans, and
we're going
to track ROI in

575
00:29:17,108 --> 00:29:19,412
insane amounts, and those are
really not the
people you want

576
00:29:19,412 --> 00:29:22,352
as a partnership, you want
branding
people, but look at

577
00:29:22,352 --> 00:29:25,177
what they're doing, look at
their old
campaigns, just

578
00:29:25,177 --> 00:29:28,450
stalk them for a bit, and on
especially on
social, because

579
00:29:28,450 --> 00:29:31,980
that's what they're using to do,
and then
when you show them

580
00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:35,045
that you've done your homework,
you know,
hey, I know last

581
00:29:35,045 --> 00:29:37,690
fall you did the such and such
campaign,
because it's

582
00:29:37,690 --> 00:29:40,242
probably already still out
there, and then you
like, you

583
00:29:40,242 --> 00:29:43,615
know, I have something similar
that we could do on my
show,

584
00:29:43,615 --> 00:29:45,986
if you're interested, you know,
yada yada yada.

585
00:29:45,986 --> 00:29:50,140
And what I
see, where people
shoot themselves in the foot, is

586
00:29:50,140 --> 00:29:53,761
their
imposter syndrome kicks
in, and they're like, "Hey, I

587
00:29:53,761 --> 00:29:56,777
know last
year you did this
great campaign, I thought it'd

588
00:29:56,777 --> 00:29:59,513
be
great, and, boy, that
really fits my audience in.

589
00:29:59,513 --> 00:30:01,295
I've
already.
Been here's an example.

590
00:30:01,295 --> 00:30:03,950
I've already been affiliate for
your product, and it seems to

591
00:30:03,950 --> 00:30:06,320
really resonate with my

audience, even though my

592
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,603
audience is small, and I've only

been doing this six months,

593
00:30:08,603 --> 00:30:10,430
and no, I'm not really very
good.


594
00:30:10,438 --> 00:30:14,150
I'm like, no, don't do that if
you've got, if you've got the


595
00:30:14,158 --> 00:30:16,700
right.
I've gone on shows that have, in

596
00:30:16,700 --> 00:30:20,789
theory, a smaller
audience per
pod match, and I'm not sure how

597
00:30:20,789 --> 00:30:23,592
accurate that is,
but
nonetheless, but if you have the

598
00:30:23,592 --> 00:30:26,204
right audience for me, I
will
go on your audience.

599
00:30:26,204 --> 00:30:29,705
I don't care if you don't have

millions of people, like if

600
00:30:29,705 --> 00:30:32,765
you've got 30 people listening

to your show, and it's 30 people

601
00:30:32,765 --> 00:30:35,735
that might start a podcast, I

will come talk to you, trust me.

602
00:30:35,735 --> 00:30:39,305
So, but that's for people that

you can't figure out what their

603
00:30:39,305 --> 00:30:42,755
budget is, just go see what

they're doing, and it's the same

604
00:30:42,755 --> 00:30:44,843
thing for a guest.
I always say,
if I want to be

605
00:30:44,843 --> 00:30:48,538
a guest on somebody's show, go
look at
their titles and see

606
00:30:48,538 --> 00:30:51,448
what they've done in the past,
and
go, "Oh, I see you've

607
00:30:51,448 --> 00:30:54,350
talked about, you know, online

marketing, you talked about

608
00:30:54,350 --> 00:30:55,880
newsletters, and you've talked

about this.

609
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,860
I don't see an episode about
podcasting, and I
believe your

610
00:30:58,860 --> 00:31:01,952
audience would really benefit
from this, and
then pitch that

611
00:31:01,952 --> 00:31:04,544
idea to the host.
BC Babbles: Awesome, love it.


612
00:31:04,552 --> 00:31:05,897
Thank you.
Ralph Estep Jr.: I've got


613
00:31:05,905 --> 00:31:08,129
another question from John
Domingo here in the chat.

614
00:31:08,129 --> 00:31:11,969
He
says, "Dave, what podcast
format do you find the hardest?

615
00:31:11,969 --> 00:31:15,725
Solo,
guest, interview, live
stream, and what's your favorite

616
00:31:15,725 --> 00:31:18,486
format?
Dave Jackson: My favorite format

617
00:31:18,486 --> 00:31:22,330

is what I call NPR.
Some people call it narrative

618
00:31:22,330 --> 00:31:26,477
style, because
every time I do
one, I mean, I will get more

619
00:31:26,477 --> 00:31:28,072
comments than any
other
format.

620
00:31:28,072 --> 00:31:30,877
People like that was really
cool, and it is.

621
00:31:30,877 --> 00:31:34,694
And
if I only had one podcast,
I would probably do all of mine

622
00:31:34,694 --> 00:31:37,213
like that.
They just take forever, because

623
00:31:37,213 --> 00:31:40,929
I'm doing one
right now.
I interviewed Rox Codes from

624
00:31:40,929 --> 00:31:44,241
Flight Cast.
Now, a
big chunk of that

625
00:31:44,241 --> 00:31:47,808
interview was him doing a demo.
Well, that's
not going to work

626
00:31:47,808 --> 00:31:49,959
in audio.
As he goes, you'll see here in

627
00:31:49,959 --> 00:31:52,509
the
upper right-hand corner,
like that's not going to work.

628
00:31:52,509 --> 00:31:55,823
So I'm
going through, and I'm
just cutting out snippets that

629
00:31:55,823 --> 00:31:59,103
he
talked about more of a
strategy on YouTube, and so I'm

630
00:31:59,103 --> 00:32:01,807
going to
end up with all these
puzzle pieces over on the

631
00:32:01,807 --> 00:32:04,243
right-hand
side in Hindenburg,
and then I go, great.

632
00:32:04,243 --> 00:32:08,309
Now, how can I kind
of.. is
there any kind of story arc, or

633
00:32:08,309 --> 00:32:09,929
how?
What's the flow
gonna be?

634
00:32:09,929 --> 00:32:13,075
And then once I figure that out,
then it's just a
matter of

635
00:32:13,075 --> 00:32:15,969
like one of the things you can
think about when it
comes to

636
00:32:15,969 --> 00:32:18,763
YouTube is don't forget to do
this, and then you drag
the

637
00:32:18,763 --> 00:32:21,507
file in, and then after that
file is over, and like, it's


638
00:32:21,515 --> 00:32:25,069
also a good idea if you do this,
drag that thing in, so it's


639
00:32:25,077 --> 00:32:27,361
great.
It's just one of those when I

640
00:32:27,361 --> 00:32:30,879
get done, I'm like, "Wow,
that
took three times as long, but

641
00:32:30,879 --> 00:32:33,519
the results are also then

better.

642
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:37,699
So I'm not..
I like interviews because of the

643
00:32:37,699 --> 00:32:41,707

relationship, but there are
times when, like, I said, I have

644
00:32:41,707 --> 00:32:46,965

to edit a lot of me out of it,
or, and I always blame myself if

645
00:32:46,965 --> 00:32:51,004

I have an interview that
wasn't like it was okay, yeah,

646
00:32:51,004 --> 00:32:54,729
that
wasn't awful.
I will always kind of edit that

647
00:32:54,729 --> 00:32:57,109
out, so that's the
thing for
me.

648
00:32:57,109 --> 00:32:59,949
Interviews are almost as much
editing as a
narrative style.

649
00:33:00,850 --> 00:33:02,718
Ralph Estep Jr.: Awesome.
I've
got Dan Schultz wants to

650
00:33:02,718 --> 00:33:04,410
ask a question.
Dave, so Dan, go
ahead.

651
00:33:05,129 --> 00:33:09,149
Dan: Hey, Dave, what you were

saying earlier about, you know,

652
00:33:09,389 --> 00:33:12,299
in interviews where, like, one

of the biggest things you can do

653
00:33:12,509 --> 00:33:16,889
to succeed would be listen, and
what you said about, well, I

654
00:33:17,159 --> 00:33:19,979
just, I'm gonna just gonna ask

you, I want to know who you

655
00:33:20,099 --> 00:33:23,899
think is either your favorite

interviewer or who do you think

656
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:27,889
sucks, and I'm just gonna, real
quick, you made me think of

657
00:33:28,099 --> 00:33:32,779
Larry King, when, like, he

would, this guy, man, he could

658
00:33:32,809 --> 00:33:36,949
be interviewing somebody, and

the guests could say, well, you

659
00:33:36,979 --> 00:33:40,009
know, Larry, I'm happy to be on
the show as the third man to

660
00:33:40,279 --> 00:33:44,258
ever set foot on the moon.
I've
never told this story

661
00:33:44,258 --> 00:33:48,614
before, but you will not believe
what
happened 30 seconds I got

662
00:33:48,614 --> 00:33:53,319
off the flying saucer spaceship
thing I was on, and Larry will

663
00:33:53,469 --> 00:33:56,114
just be like, "Do you eat

cheese?

664
00:33:56,114 --> 00:34:00,693
Do you keep in shape?
And it's like, "Are you not


665
00:34:00,701 --> 00:34:04,125
listening at all.
Dave Jackson: Yeah, my favorite

666
00:34:04,125 --> 00:34:08,118
Larry King is when he kind of
knew who Jerry Seinfeld was, and

667
00:34:08,118 --> 00:34:11,782

they had just done the finale.
Dan: No, this one, Dave Jackson:

668
00:34:11,782 --> 00:34:13,380
and he was kind of
like, so
did you get canceled?

669
00:34:13,409 --> 00:34:15,489
He's like, did I, did I get

canceled?

670
00:34:15,489 --> 00:34:19,408
What, Larry, what do you know?
It's like, so Larry
was not my

671
00:34:19,408 --> 00:34:22,870
favorite to me ever, and Larry's
answer was, "Well, I
want to

672
00:34:22,870 --> 00:34:25,719
be just like the audience and
come in blank.

673
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,320
This
sounds very weird.
I've, I have a window guy who

674
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,560
was showing up
very early to
my house, so I'll can I answer

675
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,690
that question in 10
seconds?
Yeah, I unfortunately have to go

676
00:34:37,690 --> 00:34:40,063
answer that.
He's
here like hours early, so

677
00:34:40,063 --> 00:34:42,184
no problem, Dave.
This is what
happens when you

678
00:34:42,184 --> 00:34:45,138
do live recording.
So, Ralph, Dan: I honestly

679
00:34:45,138 --> 00:34:47,703
thought that
Dave was gonna
say my favorite interviewer,

680
00:34:47,703 --> 00:34:50,907
though, is this
guy.
He's doing my Windows right now.

681
00:34:50,907 --> 00:34:52,737
Yeah, that's what I Ralph Estep
Jr.: thought was
going to

682
00:34:52,737 --> 00:34:54,710
happen.
See, this is, you got to love

683
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:58,272
live stuff,
because when you
have a live show, this is what

684
00:34:58,272 --> 00:35:00,106
happens in a
live show, but
that.

685
00:35:00,106 --> 00:35:01,478
Say, that's a, that's what
happens.

686
00:35:01,478 --> 00:35:03,990
So,
we'll give Dave a second,
but again, don't forget to join

687
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:06,040
us
tomorrow.
We're going to be talking about

688
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,363
surviving
relationships while
doing podcasting.

689
00:35:08,363 --> 00:35:10,088
I think it's really
going to
be a great show.

690
00:35:10,088 --> 00:35:13,050
And also, bring your wins of the

week, because next week we're

691
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:14,984
going to have wins of the week

again.

692
00:35:14,984 --> 00:35:17,645
So, Dave is back.
The window guy has been checked

693
00:35:17,645 --> 00:35:19,845
in,
so now you can answer that
question.

694
00:35:19,845 --> 00:35:22,865
Dave, Dave Jackson: yeah, he's
20
minutes early, so Ralph

695
00:35:22,865 --> 00:35:24,350
Estep Jr.: he's not late.

Let's get that right.

696
00:35:24,799 --> 00:35:28,319
Dave Jackson: So, the who does a

really good interview is

697
00:35:28,319 --> 00:35:31,051
Jordan Harbinger, and Jordan
Harbinger
does the work.

698
00:35:31,051 --> 00:35:35,191
He will talk about how he does
not have an
author on the show

699
00:35:35,191 --> 00:35:39,497
until he reads the book, and
people are
like, wait, what?

700
00:35:39,497 --> 00:35:43,065
Like, yeah, and I'm here to tell
you, as
someone who has a

701
00:35:43,065 --> 00:35:47,919
book, and someone who is now out
of
breath, I can tell when

702
00:35:47,979 --> 00:35:50,439
somebody's read the back cover

of the book and somebody who's

703
00:35:50,559 --> 00:35:54,189
actually read the book, and you
just get a better interview

704
00:35:54,189 --> 00:35:57,456
when you know the content.
So, yeah,
so I would say Larry

705
00:35:57,456 --> 00:36:01,163
King, I was never a fan of his
stuff, and
you know,

706
00:36:01,163 --> 00:36:03,527
Poughkeepsie, you're on, you
know, and Jordan
Harbinger

707
00:36:03,527 --> 00:36:05,703
does a really good interview.
Thank you, Dan.

708
00:36:05,703 --> 00:36:08,684
So
we're going to pivot to
post interview here in a second,

709
00:36:08,684 --> 00:36:10,238
but
Gabe in the chat asked a
question.

710
00:36:10,238 --> 00:36:13,764
He says, "When should
a new
podcast decide whether to start

711
00:36:13,764 --> 00:36:16,841
a website for their show

before you launch?

712
00:36:16,841 --> 00:36:19,719
That's really it.
So you've recorded your


713
00:36:19,727 --> 00:36:22,741
episode, you've gotten some
feedback from people, and by


714
00:36:22,749 --> 00:36:26,137
that I mean you've gotten some
feedback from people, and if you

715
00:36:26,137 --> 00:36:29,091

haven't already, you should
get some feedback from people,


716
00:36:29,099 --> 00:36:32,569
because everybody skips that
step, and then they wonder why


717
00:36:32,577 --> 00:36:36,337
isn't my show growing, and I
always say an author has, like


718
00:36:36,345 --> 00:36:40,579
my book, I went through five
edits before they went to the


719
00:36:40,587 --> 00:36:44,274
public, athletes have preseason
actors have dress rehearsal, you

720
00:36:44,274 --> 00:36:46,853

know.
Musicians spend a lot of time in

721
00:36:46,853 --> 00:36:49,809
the basement practicing
before
they go public, and yet you just

722
00:36:49,809 --> 00:36:52,229
recorded the very first
thing
you've ever recorded, and you

723
00:36:52,229 --> 00:36:55,209
go, "I want this thing out
of
here, and you publish it, and

724
00:36:55,209 --> 00:36:57,489
then wonder why it's not

resonating, because you

725
00:36:57,579 --> 00:37:00,771
published a rough draft.
So,
what you can use the

726
00:37:00,771 --> 00:37:03,649
website for is to start building
up your
email list, sign up

727
00:37:03,649 --> 00:37:08,009
here and be notified the minute
that this
goes, and then you

728
00:37:08,009 --> 00:37:12,014
can also put your episode there
and get some
feedback before

729
00:37:12,014 --> 00:37:16,049
you actually go, oh, this one's
ready for the
public, so it's

730
00:37:16,049 --> 00:37:18,129
your website, and people go,
"course you're
going to say

731
00:37:18,129 --> 00:37:20,419
that you work for a website
company, but I've been
saying

732
00:37:20,419 --> 00:37:23,109
this for 20 years.
Your website is your home, this

733
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:26,467
is
it, your home base.
And then you got your Instagrams

734
00:37:26,467 --> 00:37:30,184
and your
Snapface and all the
other different social places

735
00:37:30,184 --> 00:37:34,009
around
it, so that one of
those is not the cool place to

736
00:37:34,009 --> 00:37:36,004
be anymore,
but you're good to
go.

737
00:37:36,004 --> 00:37:39,478
Or if you get kicked off of
YouTube,
people know where to

738
00:37:39,478 --> 00:37:42,411
find you.
This is my home base, and that's

739
00:37:42,411 --> 00:37:46,605

the.. it really is something
you want to just build on top

740
00:37:46,605 --> 00:37:50,579
of,
because as much as we..
well, Ralph, what if somebody

741
00:37:50,579 --> 00:37:52,689
wants to
do a spotlight?
Where do they go?

742
00:37:53,410 --> 00:37:55,240
Ralph Estep Jr.: They go to

Podcasting Morning

743
00:37:55,390 --> 00:37:59,138
show.com/spotlight Dave Jackson:
So he's
reinforcing his brand,

744
00:37:59,138 --> 00:38:03,160
he said his domain name again,
and he's
given a quick, easy

745
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,640
way for people to, you know,
leave their
spotlight.

746
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,916
So, your website is that's your
home base, and so,
yeah, and

747
00:38:10,916 --> 00:38:14,148
you know, get your get your
episode, get your media
host.

748
00:38:14,148 --> 00:38:17,678
I'm a big fan of Captivate and
Buzzsprout, not Spotify.

749
00:38:17,678 --> 00:38:22,617
If
you need free rss.com or
Red Circle, but once you get

750
00:38:22,617 --> 00:38:25,347
that
done and you've got
something hosted, you can go

751
00:38:25,347 --> 00:38:28,716
ahead and,
you know, put that
on your website to get some

752
00:38:28,716 --> 00:38:32,595
feedback,
and then from there,
once you're done, then you can

753
00:38:32,595 --> 00:38:36,255
really start,
you know, using
your website for all sorts of

754
00:38:36,255 --> 00:38:38,313
fun stuff.
Now, Carrie, Brett, do you want

755
00:38:38,313 --> 00:38:40,590
to make a comment?
Carrie, Carrie just joined us on

756
00:38:40,590 --> 00:38:41,865
stage.

She mentioned that she had

757
00:38:41,865 --> 00:38:43,545
interviewed somebody.
Carrie,
are you with us?

758
00:38:43,935 --> 00:38:46,060
Dr Carrie Madej: Yes.
Yeah, I
interviewed Jordan

759
00:38:46,060 --> 00:38:48,300
Harbinger for my show.
Dave Jackson: Yeah, Dr Carrie

760
00:38:48,300 --> 00:38:49,770
Madej: and it was
very, very
interesting.

761
00:38:49,770 --> 00:38:54,030
He had just interviewed Matthew
McConaughey at the time, and I

762
00:38:54,030 --> 00:38:58,680
was really excited to get him

because he's the original Hitch,

763
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,774
the movie Hitch.
Do you guys
remember that with

764
00:39:01,774 --> 00:39:05,020
Will Smith, and I heard him
before I knew
who he was.

765
00:39:05,020 --> 00:39:08,071
I heard him on the Jasmine Star
show, and the only
reason why

766
00:39:08,071 --> 00:39:11,547
I was listening to the Jasmine
Star show is because
I'm a

767
00:39:11,547 --> 00:39:13,965
professional photographer, and I
was on the speaking
circuit

768
00:39:13,965 --> 00:39:17,251
with Jasmine back in the day for
professional
photographers,

769
00:39:17,251 --> 00:39:21,235
and I heard him speak, and I'm
like, he's like
the male

770
00:39:21,235 --> 00:39:23,394
version of me, like this is
amazing.

771
00:39:23,394 --> 00:39:26,145
Yeah, and
Jordan had a lot
ofCarmen.

772
00:39:26,595 --> 00:39:30,120
Dave Jackson: Yeah, Jordan is

one of those non-BS kind of

773
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,065
guys.
He will, that's what I
love,

774
00:39:32,065 --> 00:39:35,754
when I, anytime I ever have him
on the show, he will
just say,

775
00:39:35,754 --> 00:39:40,574
well, it, it has to be good, and
by good I mean
exceptional,

776
00:39:40,574 --> 00:39:44,274
and he just.. it's like this is
what you need to
do, and most

777
00:39:44,274 --> 00:39:47,850
people don't do that, and Jordan
is not afraid
to say that.

778
00:39:48,010 --> 00:39:48,946
Ralph Estep Jr.: Thank you,

Carrie.

779
00:39:48,946 --> 00:39:51,241
I want to pin it to..
I'm sorry, go ahead, Carrie.


780
00:39:51,249 --> 00:39:54,263
Sorry, go ahead.
Dr Carrie Madej: Lee did a lot


781
00:39:54,271 --> 00:39:57,085
of amazing things, and he
deserves a lot of credit.

782
00:39:57,790 --> 00:39:59,410
Ralph Estep Jr.: He does.
Thank
you, Carrie.

783
00:39:59,410 --> 00:40:01,134
I want.
To pivot to our last section

784
00:40:01,134 --> 00:40:04,212
today, Dave,
because the whole
reason I had you on is talk

785
00:40:04,212 --> 00:40:05,604
about creating
remarkable
interviews.

786
00:40:05,604 --> 00:40:08,990
Yeah, and what I have seen is
most podcast
advice stops the

787
00:40:08,990 --> 00:40:11,638
moment the guest hangs up and
they say,
okay, you've done

788
00:40:11,638 --> 00:40:14,844
it, you're great, but I got a
suspicion
that you think about

789
00:40:14,844 --> 00:40:18,245
what you, I want you to tell us
what you
think about after the

790
00:40:18,245 --> 00:40:20,316
interview that you need to do as
well.


791
00:40:20,324 --> 00:40:21,985
Talk us about the
follow-through, Dave, because I

792
00:40:21,985 --> 00:40:23,906
know that's important to what
you, you've talked about editing

793
00:40:23,906 --> 00:40:25,970

once, but I think there's more
to that than you, than you


794
00:40:25,978 --> 00:40:27,230
wanted to talk about right now,
right?

795
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,830
Dave Jackson: Yeah, it's

usually, you know, and I, at

796
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:34,220
times, want to kick myself

because I'll forget to do this,

797
00:40:34,370 --> 00:40:38,180
but you want to make sure you

let the, the, you know, the

798
00:40:38,300 --> 00:40:41,946
guest know that it's available,
you know, hey, your show's

799
00:40:41,946 --> 00:40:44,644
live.
Here's the link, and give them


800
00:40:44,652 --> 00:40:48,115
everything you can.
So, here's, here's, and I

801
00:40:48,115 --> 00:40:51,370
recently changed
this.
When you give them a piece of

802
00:40:51,370 --> 00:40:54,610
artwork and it matches your

brand, they're probably more

803
00:40:54,730 --> 00:40:57,722
likely to share it if it matches

their brand.

804
00:40:57,722 --> 00:41:01,874
So, if your colors are blue and
yellow, and their
colors are

805
00:41:01,874 --> 00:41:04,190
brown and beige.
You might want to make that

806
00:41:04,190 --> 00:41:05,906
brown
and beige, because it'll
match their stuff.

807
00:41:05,906 --> 00:41:09,377
But so much of just
like, hey,
our episode is live, and that's

808
00:41:09,377 --> 00:41:11,218
it.
But if you go,
hey, our

809
00:41:11,218 --> 00:41:13,620
episode is live, here's a
built-in tweet, or something


810
00:41:13,628 --> 00:41:16,395
to share on threads, or
Instagram, or whatever, and you

811
00:41:16,395 --> 00:41:19,398
give them, you know, the
typical kind of rectangle image,

812
00:41:19,398 --> 00:41:23,504
and a
square one, whatever it
is, it's so easy to do in Canva

813
00:41:23,504 --> 00:41:27,032
to make
multiple versions of
that, and then thank them for

814
00:41:27,032 --> 00:41:31,337
that, and
you know, just make
it super easy, so that in the

815
00:41:31,337 --> 00:41:34,300
event you
did do an episode
that was kind of thinking

816
00:41:34,300 --> 00:41:36,623
outside the box and
not the
same old kind of questions,

817
00:41:36,623 --> 00:41:41,364
they're much more
likely to
share it, but also in the early

818
00:41:41,364 --> 00:41:45,475
days, I still do this,
but I
would probably say I'm more of a

819
00:41:45,475 --> 00:41:49,446
C grade instead of A
or B.
On this is every now and then,

820
00:41:49,446 --> 00:41:52,365
just follow up with people
to
go, "Hey, you know, we..

821
00:41:52,365 --> 00:41:55,195
I haven't talked to you since we

did our interview, you know,

822
00:41:55,195 --> 00:41:56,812
six months ago.
What's up?

823
00:41:56,812 --> 00:41:59,163
What's
new and exciting?
Anything than that?

824
00:41:59,163 --> 00:42:02,070
And they'll probably.

they'll. oh, same old, same old,

825
00:42:02,220 --> 00:42:04,410
whatever, and you're like,

great, you know, talk to you

826
00:42:04,470 --> 00:42:08,520
later, just to say hi, so that

in the event somebody goes, hey,

827
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,000
do you know a podcast guy, and

they go, you know what, I do,

828
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:17,130
Dave Jackson does this thing,

and so just to, because for me,

829
00:42:17,490 --> 00:42:21,890
the biggest benefit of

interviews is the relationships

830
00:42:21,950 --> 00:42:25,790
you can build with people, and

so when this person knows you

831
00:42:25,940 --> 00:42:28,220
and somebody asks them, and they

say, "Oh, you need to talk to

832
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,880
this guy, so now you know that

guy, and then it just builds and

833
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,670
builds and builds.
One of my
favorite examples is

834
00:42:34,670 --> 00:42:38,582
I was the head of the new media
show, not
the new media show,

835
00:42:38,582 --> 00:42:41,815
New Media Expo, and I got to
hire Pat
Flynn to talk, so

836
00:42:41,815 --> 00:42:45,244
that was the first time I got to
know Pat,
and I was at an

837
00:42:45,244 --> 00:42:48,330
event talking to Pat, because I
knew Pat now, and
Michael

838
00:42:48,330 --> 00:42:52,092
Stelzner walked up, who I kind
of knew, who runs Social
Media

839
00:42:52,092 --> 00:42:55,766
Marketing World, and so Michael
knew Pat and was talking
to

840
00:42:55,766 --> 00:42:58,811
Pat, which means he was also
talking to me, which means I got

841
00:42:58,811 --> 00:43:01,740

to kind of share some of my
expertise, and the next thing


842
00:43:01,748 --> 00:43:04,710
you know, I'm talking to social
media marketing world, because I

843
00:43:04,710 --> 00:43:08,040

knew Pat, who knew Michael,
who knew, and it just.. it's all

844
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,355

about the relationships.
So, don't let that last time you

845
00:43:11,355 --> 00:43:13,255

talk to somebody be your
interview.

846
00:43:13,255 --> 00:43:15,876
Reach out every now
and then,
even if it's been a year, it

847
00:43:15,876 --> 00:43:18,540
seems kind of weird.

And again, where do I get that

848
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:20,274
idea from?
Jordan Harbinger.

849
00:43:20,274 --> 00:43:25,055
So,
follow up with people just
to keep those relationships

850
00:43:25,055 --> 00:43:27,094
going.
Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, and I


851
00:43:27,102 --> 00:43:28,865
think it really is all about
relationships now.

852
00:43:28,865 --> 00:43:31,839
Someone asked
something
earlier that I think is a

853
00:43:31,839 --> 00:43:34,631
perfect segment to what I
want
to ask you about now, because

854
00:43:34,631 --> 00:43:36,425
you talked about these

follow-up steps.

855
00:43:36,425 --> 00:43:39,227
How are you using AI in your
content
creation,

856
00:43:39,227 --> 00:43:41,423
specifically?
Did we talk a lot about AI on

857
00:43:41,423 --> 00:43:44,433
this
show, and you have to be
under a rock right now to not

858
00:43:44,433 --> 00:43:47,407
hear about
AI all the time,
and the thing that struck me is

859
00:43:47,407 --> 00:43:50,235
this is
probably a great use
for AI to create those images

860
00:43:50,235 --> 00:43:53,417
and things
like that, but
where are you using AI to be

861
00:43:53,417 --> 00:43:54,851
sort of a
superpower right
now?

862
00:43:54,851 --> 00:43:57,492
Dave, Dave Jackson: yeah, I use
AI on
my images in some cases,

863
00:43:57,550 --> 00:44:00,868
depending on how much time I

have, because I can make your

864
00:44:00,925 --> 00:44:03,181
typical, you know, what is that
stuff good?

865
00:44:03,181 --> 00:44:06,492
It's not B roll, but public
images in Canva, and I
just

866
00:44:06,492 --> 00:44:09,939
type in, give me a chart, and
there's a chart there, it is


867
00:44:09,947 --> 00:44:13,571
where if I'm like, show me in,
you know, a striped shirt next


868
00:44:13,579 --> 00:44:15,681
to a chalkboard, you know, etc.
etc.

869
00:44:15,681 --> 00:44:18,775
AI, in some cases, takes it

looks cooler, but it takes

870
00:44:18,832 --> 00:44:21,789
longer, so that's usually the

way it works, you know.

871
00:44:21,789 --> 00:44:25,477
The less time you spend on it,
the not so
cool it looks, you

872
00:44:25,477 --> 00:44:27,081
know.
Vice versa, so there's that.

873
00:44:27,081 --> 00:44:30,521
The
other thing I just did is
I did an interview with a

874
00:44:30,521 --> 00:44:32,874
friend.
Now,
the good news is I get to

875
00:44:32,874 --> 00:44:36,233
catch up with my friend.
The bad news
is we went on so

876
00:44:36,233 --> 00:44:38,836
many tangents because we're
friends, that
really, and I

877
00:44:38,836 --> 00:44:42,424
went in, and I transcribed it,
and I said, find
the parts

878
00:44:42,424 --> 00:44:45,869
where we're kind of off topic,
and give me
timestamps, and it

879
00:44:45,869 --> 00:44:49,370
did, it was like from three
minutes and 10
seconds to four

880
00:44:49,370 --> 00:44:52,901
minutes and 27 you guys talked
about this, so I
now can go in

881
00:44:52,901 --> 00:44:56,477
and cut out the stuff, I don't
have to listen to
the whole

882
00:44:56,477 --> 00:44:58,464
thing.
Even though I'm going to anyway,

883
00:44:58,464 --> 00:45:02,108
but it gives me
an idea where
to look, and then I just did

884
00:45:02,108 --> 00:45:05,533
this last week, and
I'm not
sure if I'm going to do it every

885
00:45:05,533 --> 00:45:07,129
week, but it was pretty

interesting.

886
00:45:07,129 --> 00:45:11,219
I had my show in my head, I had
my bullet points, I
recorded

887
00:45:11,219 --> 00:45:14,744
the whole thing, didn't do all
the fancy schmate, I just
want

888
00:45:14,744 --> 00:45:17,894
the content out, transcribed it,
threw it into
Chat GPT, and

889
00:45:17,894 --> 00:45:21,046
said this is my episode, how
could I make it
better?

890
00:45:21,046 --> 00:45:24,588
And it said, well, you know, if
you move this at the
beginning

891
00:45:24,588 --> 00:45:27,978
and you did this, I ended up
being the four cs of


892
00:45:27,986 --> 00:45:29,774
something, which it didn't make
up.

893
00:45:29,774 --> 00:45:33,251
I had said all those four
cs,
but they weren't together, and

894
00:45:33,251 --> 00:45:35,981
it said, if you put these

together, it's a thing.

895
00:45:35,981 --> 00:45:39,370
And then I was like, and I
looked at it
and asked myself,

896
00:45:39,370 --> 00:45:41,690
okay, I'm the human here, is
that better?

897
00:45:41,690 --> 00:45:45,193
And
I went, that is more
organized, and I think it'll be

898
00:45:45,193 --> 00:45:48,487
more of a
more effective on
the content, and so I basically

899
00:45:48,487 --> 00:45:52,091
said, give me
a bullet outline
of the thing that you just said,

900
00:45:52,091 --> 00:45:55,524
because I
don't want to read a
script, and they said, okay,

901
00:45:55,524 --> 00:45:59,084
here's your
bullet points, and
then I just stayed on track with

902
00:45:59,084 --> 00:46:02,022
those, and
it was like, ah,
that was in the end.

903
00:46:02,022 --> 00:46:03,891
I think it made a better

episode.

904
00:46:03,891 --> 00:46:07,335
Now I recorded my episode twice,
so it takes more
time, but in

905
00:46:07,335 --> 00:46:11,034
the end I now look at that first
one as kind of the
rough

906
00:46:11,034 --> 00:46:14,250
draft, and the second one is
like, okay, that was
practice,

907
00:46:14,250 --> 00:46:17,252
this one's for real.
And so that was something that I

908
00:46:17,252 --> 00:46:19,509

go, am I going to do that
every week?

909
00:46:19,509 --> 00:46:23,288
Not sure I'm going to have
the
time to do that, but I think in

910
00:46:23,288 --> 00:46:26,078
the end I made a better episode.
Ralph Estep Jr.: Now, you work


911
00:46:26,086 --> 00:46:28,276
with a lot of new podcasters,
Dave, and while we're talking


912
00:46:28,284 --> 00:46:31,910
about AI, do you see a lot of
new folks calling it in with AI,

913
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:34,040

just trying to use AI to do
everything?

914
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:35,720
And what do you
think about
that?

915
00:46:36,410 --> 00:46:38,489
Dave Jackson: I don't.
When they
work with me, they

916
00:46:38,489 --> 00:46:42,408
kind of know they've heard my
show, so
they've heard me say,

917
00:46:42,408 --> 00:46:45,946
don't let AI make the content,
write the
content, speak the

918
00:46:45,946 --> 00:46:49,312
content, you know, like use it
to enhance
what you made, so I

919
00:46:49,312 --> 00:46:53,010
don't run into that a lot, but
when I do
interviews, there

920
00:46:53,010 --> 00:46:56,680
are many times when I'm like
going, I get the
feeling all

921
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,275
these questions came from AI,
and so that's something
I hear

922
00:47:00,275 --> 00:47:04,245
sometimes, but I do see in
Facebook groups where people


923
00:47:04,253 --> 00:47:07,711
are like, well, I just use AI
for that, and I just, you know,

924
00:47:07,711 --> 00:47:11,220
and then I, if you're, if you
are doing anything looking at


925
00:47:11,228 --> 00:47:16,250
AI, when you go back to
Facebook, there was one, it was

926
00:47:16,250 --> 00:47:20,166
like record nothing and say
everything, or something like


927
00:47:20,174 --> 00:47:23,118
that, but it was all just, you
know, you just type it in and it

928
00:47:23,118 --> 00:47:26,025

will, you know, and make you
millions, and blah blah blah,


929
00:47:26,033 --> 00:47:29,488
and I was like, you know, that's
that's not good.

930
00:47:29,488 --> 00:47:32,090
So Ralph Estep Jr.: go ahead,
BC, I
know you got a question,

931
00:47:32,900 --> 00:47:33,980
BC Babbles: you had to follow up

with that.

932
00:47:33,980 --> 00:47:36,980
So recently I saw an article
from Brains magazine
talking

933
00:47:36,980 --> 00:47:41,774
about how you're not AI, so stop
communicating like one
from an

934
00:47:41,774 --> 00:47:45,248
author or writer named David
Fisher, and he talks about
in

935
00:47:45,248 --> 00:47:50,278
his article about how, despite
how clean cookie cutter
and

936
00:47:50,278 --> 00:47:55,820
kind of pristine AI can help
make our communications, it


937
00:47:55,828 --> 00:48:01,518
still lacks this human, lacks
the human in it, and it lacks


938
00:48:01,526 --> 00:48:05,390
our ability to sound messy and
sometimes irrational, which


939
00:48:05,398 --> 00:48:09,052
helps us translate better to
other people.

940
00:48:09,052 --> 00:48:13,092
I was wondering,
if and when
you're working with someone who

941
00:48:13,092 --> 00:48:16,716
kind of has a very
AI-forward
approach, what your thoughts on

942
00:48:16,716 --> 00:48:19,704
that are, and how
you would
kind of break that down for them

943
00:48:19,704 --> 00:48:22,225
as well.
Dave Jackson: Yeah, I've seen


944
00:48:22,233 --> 00:48:25,194
multiple people that have gone
into Riverside and have it


945
00:48:25,202 --> 00:48:28,750
remove the filler words to where
it doesn't sound good anymore,


946
00:48:28,758 --> 00:48:32,798
because we need time to figure
out what our next word is, so


947
00:48:32,806 --> 00:48:36,069
there are these little pauses,
and now it's just somebody who


948
00:48:36,077 --> 00:48:39,780
talks over and over and over,
and the words are kind of weird,

949
00:48:39,780 --> 00:48:43,517

and every now and then, like,
so yes, it did the editing for

950
00:48:43,517 --> 00:48:46,978
you,
and that's anything with
AI, like, look, it can do this.

951
00:48:46,978 --> 00:48:48,863

Okay, great, but is it any good?

952
00:48:48,921 --> 00:48:52,602
You know, look, it rewrote this
sales page, and it only took me

953
00:48:52,660 --> 00:48:56,340
like a minute and a half, that

would have taken me three hours.

954
00:48:56,399 --> 00:48:57,568
Okay, great.
How much?

955
00:48:57,568 --> 00:48:59,612
How are
sales now?
Are they up?

956
00:48:59,612 --> 00:49:02,690
Well, no, you know.
So that's the
thing that I see

957
00:49:02,690 --> 00:49:05,748
people, you know, I'm always
like, don't
people connect

958
00:49:05,748 --> 00:49:09,223
with people like we could.
I live in, in about an
hour

959
00:49:09,223 --> 00:49:12,901
south of Cleveland, and I
remember I would go up and watch

960
00:49:12,901 --> 00:49:15,943

Lebron James play basketball,
and one of the things that


961
00:49:15,951 --> 00:49:19,125
people don't talk about is his
passes are insane, they're super

962
00:49:19,125 --> 00:49:23,313

fast, and he, he has eyes in
the back of his head, and so we

963
00:49:23,313 --> 00:49:26,546
could probably get a robot to
throw it just as fast as


964
00:49:26,554 --> 00:49:29,807
accurate as Lebron James, but I
won't connect with that, because

965
00:49:29,807 --> 00:49:33,496

now I'm like, oh man, that
dude's 41 and he's still, he's


966
00:49:33,504 --> 00:49:37,421
still crushing it, way to go,
Lebron, so I can connect with, I

967
00:49:37,421 --> 00:49:40,547

can't connect with, like, oh,
that's a cool piece of


968
00:49:40,555 --> 00:49:42,169
technology, but no, okay,
whatever.

969
00:49:42,169 --> 00:49:44,401
So you know, lean into
your
humanness.

970
00:49:44,401 --> 00:49:48,398
I still, as much, even if I have
an outline,
I'm just the way

971
00:49:48,398 --> 00:49:51,409
my brain works.
I'm ADHD, I've never been like


972
00:49:51,417 --> 00:49:54,685
officially diagnosed, but talk
to me for 10 minutes and you


973
00:49:54,693 --> 00:49:56,538
get.
That guy's all over the place,

974
00:49:56,538 --> 00:49:59,902
and so when I have, when
I
have a bullet points, I will

975
00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:03,407
still, you know, throw in a

tangent every now and then, and

976
00:50:03,465 --> 00:50:05,921
so what I do is just make fun of

myself.

977
00:50:05,921 --> 00:50:09,214
I have a jingle that's like,
okay, here comes another
10

978
00:50:09,214 --> 00:50:13,160
second tangent, you know, and
I'm like, well, if it applies to

979
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,581

what I'm actually talking
about, or if I think my audience

980
00:50:16,581 --> 00:50:19,761
would
still like this tangent,
even though it's a tangent, I'll

981
00:50:19,761 --> 00:50:22,861

leave it in there.
A lot of times, I'll cut them

982
00:50:22,861 --> 00:50:26,484
out, but
there are times when
I'm like, no, no, they'll still

983
00:50:26,484 --> 00:50:28,655
care about
this.
So, BC Babbles: I love that.

984
00:50:28,655 --> 00:50:30,481
I love
that.
Going back to when you were

985
00:50:30,481 --> 00:50:33,387
talking about your, your
prep
sheets, when I do mine too,

986
00:50:33,438 --> 00:50:36,456
similar to you, I give topic

ideas, but I always say in the

987
00:50:36,507 --> 00:50:38,690
prep sheet, this non-verbatim
script, Dave Jackson: right?

988
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,709
BC Babbles: Not in order.
We're
gonna pip my I go by BC

989
00:50:41,709 --> 00:50:44,630
Babbles on podcasts, so that
tells you
anything right

990
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:46,360
there.
So I love that approach.

991
00:50:46,810 --> 00:50:48,295
Dave Jackson: Yeah, and you have

to know yourself.

992
00:50:48,295 --> 00:50:51,635
I'll give you an example.
If I'm given, let's
say 40

993
00:50:51,635 --> 00:50:55,786
minutes to talk, and they go, so
if you could cut it at 30


994
00:50:55,794 --> 00:50:58,770
minutes and leave 10 minutes for
questions, that'd be great.

995
00:50:58,770 --> 00:51:02,290
I
will purposely write my
script to be 25 minutes, five

996
00:51:02,290 --> 00:51:03,250
minutes
sooner.
Why?

997
00:51:03,250 --> 00:51:06,137
Because my brain is going to
call an audible
somewhere in

998
00:51:06,137 --> 00:51:08,040
there.
I'm going to throw in an extra

999
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,120
joke or
something, so I'm
like, and I get done after I've

1000
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,840
thrown in
something new, and
I'm right at 30 minutes.

1001
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,089
So you kind of have
to know
who you are and how you work,

1002
00:51:17,089 --> 00:51:19,684
and like, okay, I don't
want
to try to turn me into something

1003
00:51:19,684 --> 00:51:23,181
that I'm not so right.
Ralph Estep Jr.: Thank you, BC.

1004
00:51:23,181 --> 00:51:24,325

I want to go to Carrie, and then

1005
00:51:24,368 --> 00:51:26,201
I'm going to ask you the last

question, Dave.

1006
00:51:26,201 --> 00:51:27,803
But Carrie has a comment about
AI.

1007
00:51:27,803 --> 00:51:30,158
Go ahead, Carrie.
Dr Carrie Madej: Okay, I love


1008
00:51:30,166 --> 00:51:33,258
the example of Lebron James.
Julian Edelman is a Patriots


1009
00:51:33,266 --> 00:51:37,145
player who can turn on a dime on
the field, right?

1010
00:51:37,145 --> 00:51:40,603
He's the
smallest guy, and
he's just so scrappy.

1011
00:51:40,603 --> 00:51:43,966
Oh yeah, people love him.
Dave Jackson: Yeah, Dr Carrie

1012
00:51:43,966 --> 00:51:46,875
Madej: so he's another
example
of like humanness and spirit.

1013
00:51:46,875 --> 00:51:50,890
But what I wanted to say
about
AI is in Jordan Harbinger,

1014
00:51:51,010 --> 00:51:55,647
again, Jordan Harbinger is very
specific in his questions, and

1015
00:51:55,647 --> 00:51:59,122
I think that separates him as
far
as an interviewer.

1016
00:51:59,122 --> 00:52:01,674
And I interviewed Ellen
Hildebrand,
who's a famous

1017
00:52:01,674 --> 00:52:06,212
writer, and she was like,
specific, I can't say
the word

1018
00:52:06,212 --> 00:52:10,368
being specific will set you
apart, and AI is not that,
so

1019
00:52:10,368 --> 00:52:13,960
that's what I just want to say.
Dave Jackson: Yeah, I


1020
00:52:13,968 --> 00:52:17,532
interviewed a woman from the
show Big Lash Energy, and to


1021
00:52:17,540 --> 00:52:21,410
make a long story short, the I
got surprised that this was on


1022
00:52:21,418 --> 00:52:24,054
my calendar, one of those where
I didn't do the research, so I


1023
00:52:24,062 --> 00:52:27,260
was like, "Oh crap.
So I went to Chat GPT, and I

1024
00:52:27,260 --> 00:52:30,344
said, "I'm
interviewing..
I cannot remember her name, but

1025
00:52:30,344 --> 00:52:33,228
anyway, give me 10
questions
that she hasn't been asked

1026
00:52:33,228 --> 00:52:35,102
before.
And it gave me 10
questions,

1027
00:52:35,102 --> 00:52:38,450
and they were unique, but
luckily we had technical


1028
00:52:38,458 --> 00:52:40,986
issues.
She was in a place with really

1029
00:52:40,986 --> 00:52:43,340
bad inner yet, so we
pushed it
back a week.

1030
00:52:43,340 --> 00:52:46,540
I then went back and listened to
like
four of her episodes, and

1031
00:52:46,540 --> 00:52:51,130
I was so happy because she had a
great
story and all sorts of

1032
00:52:51,130 --> 00:52:54,142
insights and such.
And had I actually
been like,

1033
00:52:54,142 --> 00:52:56,825
okay, well, I asked her a bunch
of questions.

1034
00:52:56,825 --> 00:52:59,544
So the
reason Jordan asked
such good questions is because

1035
00:52:59,544 --> 00:53:02,553
he did the
work, he read the
book, he's done his research,

1036
00:53:02,553 --> 00:53:05,170
and so that's
that was a
lesson of mine.

1037
00:53:05,170 --> 00:53:08,910
I'm like, yep, Chat GPT gave me
questions that she hadn't been

1038
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,760
asked before, but A, they

weren't the questions my

1039
00:53:11,970 --> 00:53:13,890
audience would have asked if

they were sitting in my chair,

1040
00:53:14,370 --> 00:53:18,080
and B, I would have really

missed a great episode.

1041
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,990
So, Ralph Estep Jr.: all right,
Dave, final question for today.

1042
00:53:21,710 --> 00:53:25,100
If you could give every

podcaster in our community one

1043
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,920
piece of advice that would

immediately make their next

1044
00:53:28,010 --> 00:53:31,640
guest interview more remarkable,
Dave Jackson: what would it be?

1045
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:32,360

Do the work.

1046
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,310
Do the work.
And so this is where why people

1047
00:53:35,310 --> 00:53:38,720
don't
do the work is because
they've said I'm doing a weekly

1048
00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:41,702
show and
they're great, and
I'm going to go to Pod Match,

1049
00:53:41,702 --> 00:53:44,074
and I'm going
to get a bunch
of guests, and everything's

1050
00:53:44,074 --> 00:53:47,177
great.
And then
they try to basically

1051
00:53:47,177 --> 00:53:50,736
squeeze their life into their
podcast
schedule, and it turns

1052
00:53:50,736 --> 00:53:53,650
out, and Ralph's going to talk
about this
tomorrow, your

1053
00:53:53,650 --> 00:53:56,112
family, and things like that.
And so that
doesn't work.

1054
00:53:56,112 --> 00:53:59,438
You have to look at your life
and go, wow, that,
that took

1055
00:53:59,438 --> 00:54:02,646
me, you know, nine hours to do a
50 minute podcast.


1056
00:54:02,654 --> 00:54:05,962
Okay, do you have nine hours a
week to do a podcast?

1057
00:54:05,962 --> 00:54:07,754
No.
And
that's when you don't do

1058
00:54:07,754 --> 00:54:09,030
the work.
That's when you're like,
I'll

1059
00:54:09,030 --> 00:54:11,806
just read the back of the book,
I'll just ask Chat GPT.


1060
00:54:11,814 --> 00:54:15,734
When you do the work, you come
up with much better content, and

1061
00:54:15,734 --> 00:54:19,040

so if you go, well, no, I
don't have nine hours a week.

1062
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,350
Okay, do
you have nine hours
every other week, maybe.

1063
00:54:21,350 --> 00:54:24,586
Okay, well, then
maybe you're
doing a bi-weekly show, or

1064
00:54:24,586 --> 00:54:27,426
you're going to do a
shorter
show, or maybe you're not doing

1065
00:54:27,426 --> 00:54:29,518
interviews, because
those take
up a lot of time.

1066
00:54:29,518 --> 00:54:34,250
So that would be my advice.
Do the
work, because in

1067
00:54:34,250 --> 00:54:38,228
theory, if I wanted to, I could
probably go
to perplexity and

1068
00:54:38,228 --> 00:54:41,668
get a lot of these answers a
heck of a lot
quicker than

1069
00:54:41,668 --> 00:54:44,695
listening to your 20 minute
interview, so it's got
to be

1070
00:54:44,695 --> 00:54:47,055
something different than that,
and you know, get your


1071
00:54:47,063 --> 00:54:49,985
personality in there, get the
personality of the guest in


1072
00:54:49,993 --> 00:54:53,050
there, and do the work.
It's all about the content.

1073
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,625
Ralph Estep Jr.: I agree, Dave,
and that really sums it up,

1074
00:54:55,673 --> 00:54:57,334
Dave.
How can people get in
touch

1075
00:54:57,334 --> 00:54:59,243
with you?
What's the best way to contact

1076
00:54:59,243 --> 00:55:00,818
you?
And thank
you so much for

1077
00:55:00,818 --> 00:55:03,190
being here today, but.
Can they contact you
best?

1078
00:55:03,190 --> 00:55:05,965
Yeah, my main website, School of
podcasting.com And, of
course,

1079
00:55:05,965 --> 00:55:09,143
if you need a website, go over
to podpage.com So, I
will

1080
00:55:09,143 --> 00:55:11,828
throw one more question here.
Gabe had a question about,
let

1081
00:55:11,828 --> 00:55:13,809
me find it.
Oh, what's the most vital

1082
00:55:13,809 --> 00:55:16,253
element that this
should be
included in your website?

1083
00:55:16,253 --> 00:55:19,345
We'll close out with
that.
What's the most vital element in

1084
00:55:19,345 --> 00:55:22,344
your website, because
you deal
with websites every day through

1085
00:55:22,344 --> 00:55:23,703
Podpage, Dave Jackson: as
always.

1086
00:55:23,703 --> 00:55:25,404
It's a
podcast question, so it
depends.

1087
00:55:25,457 --> 00:55:28,560
If you're trying to grow your

audience, get your Apple and

1088
00:55:28,613 --> 00:55:31,483
Spotify links up front.
If
you're trying to make money

1089
00:55:31,483 --> 00:55:34,711
with your podcast, work on a
good
lead magnet and have that

1090
00:55:34,765 --> 00:55:37,600
newsletter right up front.
Those
are the two biggies.

1091
00:55:37,790 --> 00:55:38,440
Ralph Estep Jr.: Awesome, Dave.


1092
00:55:38,448 --> 00:55:39,665
Thank you so much for being here
today.

1093
00:55:39,665 --> 00:55:41,700
And I want to remind
everybody
to make sure you join us

1094
00:55:41,700 --> 00:55:43,093
tomorrow for Winds of the

Week, Friday.

1095
00:55:43,093 --> 00:55:45,820
We're going to talk about
keeping those
relationships

1096
00:55:45,820 --> 00:55:48,379
strong while you're podcasting.
So, Dave,
thank you so much

1097
00:55:48,379 --> 00:55:51,230
for joining us today.
And for everybody, make
it a

1098
00:55:51,230 --> 00:55:53,728
great day today, everybody, and
we will see you again


1099
00:55:53,736 --> 00:55:53,920
tomorrow.