542. YouTube Is Now the Top Podcast Discovery Platform

0:05 Marc Ronick: Good morning, Today is Wednesday, june 24 2026 and today it's our podcast news and comment episode. YouTube takes over podcast discovery, Netflix video podcast push hits another snag, and AI-generated shows raise more concerns for indie creators. So, if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, top right-hand side of the screen, and share it however Clubhouse lets you. And if you're catching us via podcast, YouTube, etc. please share this with a fellow podcaster. And now, give us about 30 seconds, and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here. The podcasting morning show is powered by Ironick Media, helping podcasters launch, polish, and grow great shows, and by Content creators accountant helping creators build real business behind their Podcasting morning show. Thank you so much for being here. I am your host, Marc Ronick.

1:26 Currently on stage with me, we have my co-hosts, Dr. Fay, Ralph Schultz, a regular lately here at the Podcasting Morning Show, and BC Babbles has joined us as well. Hey, I'm watching myself here on Do I look bluer than normal? Does my lighting seem to make me look bluer than I usually do? Ralph Estep Jr.: You're looking very blue to say, brother, Marc Ronick: right? Like, I don't know what's going on. I didn't change anything. It's Ralph Estep Jr.: a lot of blueness going on there. Marc Ronick: I need some Smurf music or something as I date my. Ralph Estep Jr.: that's it, dude. It's the Papa Smurf. Marc Ronick: Yes, yes, you can It's a little addictive sitting here, tapping on people's faces Ralph Estep Jr.: like a video game.

2:10 Marc Ronick: It is kind of like my dad is like that with, you know, if you guys ever use like Google Maps and the little indications like police ahead My dad is so quick on the draw, even if he's not the driver, he will. If I'm driving and he sees that pop up, his thing flies to that screen. Yeah, Ralph Estep Jr.: that's cool. He's ahead of the game. Marc Ronick: Yes, Dan, welcome to the stage. Dan: Howdy, howdy, Marc Ronick: as our friends used to say at the DNM show. Dan: My wife has been playing a game on her iPhone called Two Dots for 12 years. I just found out, Marc Ronick: okay, Dan: and she is at the top, like playing like she's, and I'm not lying, she's on level 4894 she's like one of four people, and they have this club where they talk about this game. Marc Ronick: Wow, Dan: and I'm like, hey, someone DR: drank the Kool-Aid.

3:09 Dan: Oh yeah, he threw it up. Marc Ronick: There's a game that Netflix has a bunch of mobile games now, and I think that I'm like, I think I'm an anomaly when I play that game. Nobody beats me, it's crazy, and and it basically all you have to all these foods, food on the and bigger and bigger, and you and when you do, you eat them, when you get to eat them once dominate every time I play it. I feel like if there were a tournament, tournament, or in and win a lot of money if it existed.

4:03 Maybe I need to Dan: create cryozempic, that might help you. Marc Ronick: Well, the idea is bigger. The idea is to get bigger. All right, so today it is our news and comment edition. And by the way, if you don't Clubhouse, we have always have that tends to occur when we're Here in the morning, we go live at 7:55am Eastern on Clubhouse, and today we were talking about games, video games, and all sorts of stuff, and my favorite, Slither IO. I'm curious if anybody still plays that game. I mean, people do, because I play against people online all the time. Okay, enough of that today.

4:48 We are.. Sid Meadows: hold up, hold up. I love that game. Marc Ronick: Oh, you play it, Sid. Sid Meadows: Well, I don't really play it, because I think it freaks.. I think it freaks up my computer a little bit, but I absolutely love that game, and Chasing those big snakes, and everything. I'm glad that I know somebody else that's actually playing it. Marc Ronick: All right, I love I love it. Yes, I do. And I was telling everybody that I seem to be some kind of freak of nature, because I never lose it. Like, I can play for hours if I allow myself, like I have to cut I'm always like the number one spot. It DR: sounds like he has laid down the gauntlet. I have, Sid Meadows: but the likelihood of us being in the same world at the same time is like that's true.

5:34 It just Marc Ronick: randomly places you in a on a board, so yeah, it's hard to play against a friend if you wanted to. Okay, enough of that. BC, did you have something you wanted to add to that? I saw you flash your pepper. Oh, now he's gone. Now he's back. Let's see. BC Babbles: Yeah, he's trying to All right, so nothing specific to say he's Ralph Estep Jr.: trying to hop into the live show to the live Marc Ronick: stream. My bad, my bad. It usually makes a noise for me, so I, but I didn't hear that today. There's BC, all right. Welcome, BC. Even if you don't mind, hit the mute, and when you hit the mute, I'll hit this. It's time for news and comment. And the way I like to start things out is with a little bit of data for you, a helpful number to understand the amount of podcasts being created is the total number of active podcasts.

6:27 These are podcasts that are still being updated and therefore actively marketing If you're making podcast episodes, you might consider this number to be your competition, quote unquote, rather than the big overall 4.64 point 7 million podcasts that are out there in all of those directories, so as of this past week, 532,869 podcasts published at least one new episode, that's down about a half a percent from the week before, and if we look at this from a 30 day perspective, over the last 30 days, 2.2 million podcast episodes were published and changed over the past 30 days, and that's down over 6% from the last month, and if you look at this chart that I look at over at Podcast Business journal.com you can really see this huge decline as May rolls in, and even a little bit starting in April, but you can see a big drop, and I guess I call that the summer drop, because I think a lot of us tend to take breaks.

7:40 where also downloads are lower, they're not as strong too, so DR: a little bit of a pattern Yes, yes, okay, Marc Ronick: yep. So, and yeah, of course, a reminder, if you haven't figured it out yet, we're kind of contributing to this drop in episodes published because we're at an abbreviated schedule this summer, going Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays. All right, with that, DR. Leash, go to your two top five lists. DR: I sure will. Okay, so the first top five list is Apple's top five podcasts that are courses. You know, we forget a lot of times that podcast is a free way to take some courses, so here are the top five. Number five is the Clinical Problem Solvers. Number four is Divine Intervention Podcasts, and it's spelled with an S at the end.

8:36 Number three is Resilient Parenting with Dr. Kate. Number two is scriptures are real, and the number one podcast is Econ Talk. And by the way, Econ Talk does not have a description. no podcast description whatsoever. Really weird. Okay. All right. Well, DR: weird. Marc Ronick: Yes, it doesn't Well, Lottie freaking dog. Okay, okay. And now the second one is from YouTube. You know him, you love them, but you know YouTube is always a little bit behind. So this is from June 8 to june 14. Marc Ronick: Okay, DR: so number five is Rotten Mango. Number four is Financial Audit with Caleb Hammer, and Hammer is the proverbial is the right word because he hammers his guests.

9:36 Number three is the Midas Touch podcast. Number two is DR. Insanity Podcast, and the number one podcast on YouTube is the Joe Rogan Experience. Marc Ronick: I love the energy, DR. It's a great way to kick things off in the morning. BC, did you have something? BC Babbles: Yeah, that Rotten version of Rotten Tomatoes? Marc Ronick: Yeah. Don't know, DR: true crime. Oh, true crime. Is it's an interesting show. I got involved in it a little bit because they were talking about one that is right here in Nashville, a crime that a true crime that's right here in Nashville. And yeah, so I had to take a listen, and I really got quite involved in it, Marc Ronick: very cool. All right, there you go.

10:22 Good recommendation from DR. Recommendation from DR. Let's get into some events around the world of podcasting. I'm going to be as brief as I can with this. First, we have Untangle Your Podcast Back End. if you think about it in some It's a live Q and A clinic, and it's by the Business and Podcasting Society for Female Entrepreneurs. Are you spending more time managing the back end of your podcast than actually recording it? Whether you're launching, relaunching, or scaling your show, this free live session will help you stop acting as the volunteer admin for your own podcast.

11:04 Learn how to untangle the weeds of your backend workflow and reclaim your time. It's a free event. It happens tomorrow, and I will include a link in the show notes for you. Also, what a surprise. Empowered Podcasting three is coming, and man, is it coming. We are officially less than two months away from the big event. a podcast, a YouTube channel, a creator brand, and tired of trying to figure it out all by Empowered Podcasting three brings podcasters, video creators, content creators, and industry professionals together for a weekend of real connection, practical guidance, interactive workshops, panels, conversations designed to help creators grow with more clarity, confidence, and community.

11:54 No matter where you are in your journey, this event is designed to give you fresh perspective, meaningful connections, and a practical and practical takeaways that you can put into action right away. Go to Empowered podcasting.com and if you want 20% off your ticket, especially right now, before tickets go up next month, you can use my coupon code EPC Mark 20, and that's again E P C Mark, spelled with a C 20, that'll give you 20% off. It's August 20-first through the 20-third. Carolina. We'd love to see you there.

12:35 Now, speaking of Empowered Podcasting, we are now on a weekly live stream schedule, so myself, Jason Circon, and Rich Perry, we get together every Wednesday at 1pm Eastern with different people from the community, sometimes sponsors, sometimes speakers, sometimes both, sometimes attendees. We have all sorts of people that were coming in, and we're talking a lot, mostly all things podcasting, and we also keep you up to date with some of the latest information and announcements for the upcoming event, and today we have Jennifer Longworth of Bourbon Barrel Podcasting. She's actually somebody that was shared the stage with me at Podfest. She was a fellow community award recipient. We got the Podfest community award. She and I, and a couple of other little bit together too. We were on some of the same flights coming home from Podfest.

13:31 She brings the perspective of a longtime podcast editor, producer, author, and a podcast service provider who knows what's happening behind the scenes after the record button gets pressed, so we'll talk podcast production growth conference energy, and what podcasters need to know before heading to Charlotte this August. So, you can find out more at Podcasting Morning show.com/epc Live, and that link will also be in the show notes. But to be honest with you, if you want to catch us live, if you're listening here live, you're probably the only one hearing this, because by the time the podcast comes out, it may be too late, but you can catch the replay at any time at that same link. Quick tip, smart move, yeah, content creators business bite, and today's content creators business bite is brought to you by the guy who's gonna share the story for this segment, Ralph E.

14:31 Stepp Jr. of Content Creators accountant.com and Ralph is my accountant, he's helped me with getting my business stuff, finances in order. He helped me with my taxes. He helped my wife with our Airbnb business, our personal finances, etc. He's been a great help and a great resource. He's been really.. It feels like a teammate when it comes to our finances, which is something that I know, especially my wife has been. Talking about for months before we came across Ralph, and it's been so great to really have that partner to feel comfortable somebody who's been doing it for 30 years.

15:12 So, with that, Ralph, what do we got for today's business bite? Ralph Estep Jr.: Well, good morning, Marc, and thank you so much for those kind comments. The check's in the mail, my friend. Just kidding. Now today I want to have a business bite about a piece I read in Pod News this week, and it was actually a very great piece. It was written by an author, her name is Losh Moodle, like now she's a podcast And here was her headline: it says, 'Beyond CPM: Surviving the New Measurement Era. And I want to unpack you. I want to unpack this for you this morning, because it's not just about podcast ads, it's actually about the economics behind what we're building. And here's the central problem that she alliterates: good measurement isn't enough.

15:53 This new industry framework we've talked about on the show, the AMP, the audio measurement protocol, it's going to standardize podcast performance measurements across platforms, which sounds like a good thing, because the industry is claiming sidelines, and this amp is supposed to unlock that money. The idea is better data gives advertisers confidence with more But here's the problem. Better measurement doesn't mean the money flows to you. Here's the reality. She talks about in her article, it's what she calls the podcast revenue pyramid, the IAB and PWC benchmarks, industry numbers. Those aren't my opinion, those are actual numbers. And here's what it shows, the top 1% institutional network back shows they're getting 70 to 80% of all podcast ad dollars, so the top 10% if you take that of the industry, are getting 95% of the total ad spend.

16:54 That bottom 90% of podcasters is splitting that remaining 5% So think about it, 90% of creators are splitting 5% of the money. These are people in that middle tier, that's the 5000 to 25,000 downloads per episode. It's what her article calls the commercial dead zone. It's too big to be a hobby, but it's too small to matter to big networks. So she talks about this thing called the margin squeeze, and I 100% agree with this. Costs are up, but revenue was flat when she looked at the numbers. Production costs are up 200 to 300% in recent years. It's driven by video, multi-camera video to compete on YouTube.

17:35 There's a lot more short-form clips chasing after those social algorithms. You've got software subscriptions, editing, remote production, and don't even let me get started on the pro audio gear. That stuff's not optional anymore. It's a must have. At the same time, I've talked about this on this show before. The CPMs have stagnated or dropped. Yeah, there's more shows, there's more inventory, but the same ad dollars, which is the trap, more ads per episode, the completion rates drop, and you get diminishing returns. She says in her article, more ads don't equal more revenue, it equals diminishing returns per listener. So, here is her takeaway: three moves beyond CPM. So, she says in her article, what's the answer?

18:18 The article lays out these three moves. As the numbers guy, I love all three of these. Here's our first move: number one, audience as a standalone economy. Stop thinking about downloads, start thinking about who's in the room, who's in your room. Think like 2500 engineers, maybe you've got 5000 small business owners, or 10,000 niche enthusiasts. That's not a small audience that's a concentrated micro economy, and then your podcast stops being the product, and it becomes the engine, and you unlock revenue beyond advertising, things like premium workshops, master classes, products built for that specific Here's the second thing she calls to do: sell exclusivity, not inventory. Programmatic networks, random ads, your niche authority is stripped away.

19:09 Instead, find one sponsor, just one, who wants to access to your specific community. And then package your influence, not your audio stream. You can do things like sponsored webinars and master classes, co-branded content, and lead funnels. Live events are great. Sponsors get undivided room attention. You can do these in fixed fee, high-value annual partnerships. And then you price the impact of what that is equal to to the advertiser, not the volume of people that you're bringing to them. Here's our third move: scale outcomes, not audiences, and I absolutely love this one. Stop selling exposure and start selling commercial results. You got to shift the conversation.

19:49 What happens after they hear the ad? You know, have a custom landing page, so that when they hear the ad, the advertiser can see what's happening. Private offer codes like MarC offered. One for getting tickets for empowered podcasting and deep editorial integrations, build case studies, document everything of what you deliver, because when you can prove the return on renew this. Here's the bottom line. Here's what she says. Here's what I want you to take away from this: better measurement in podcasting is a good thing. It's more minor ending, the industry is also a good thing, but it's not an economic salvation for the independent creators. Creators who aren't chasing a bigger slice of that 5% pie, they flip the model entirely. Build revenue streams yourself that reflect the real value in the audience.

20:35 I'm gonna leave it with this. The article says it best: be owners of trust, not renters of attention, and that's your business bite for this week. Marc Ronick: Thank you, Ralph. Appreciate that. And yeah, if anybody has any thoughts, they want to chime in. BC, I'm not sure if you did on Clubhouse or not, that might be an old pepper. I see, yeah, it is. Okay, and I'm gonna pause here if nobody has anything else to add to this. And thank you again for that, Ralph. I want to.. it feels like an old school morning, because here I see some ogs of the podcasting morning chat, now podcasting morning show. Some ogs here, James Scott in the audience, James from Scotland, welcome back, and Amanda Sharp, the one who was really holding the podcasting morning chat together for so many years before I took it over, and Amanda's on stage with Amanda. Welcome, and shocking that you're here on a Wednesday when we're doing podcast news, your least favorite of the week. Amanda Sharp: Well, I did get your text admittedly late, so when I woke up this morning, I said I'm gonna rearrange my morning a little bit.

21:47 While I don't love the news, I do love all you, so I at least wanted to pop in and say good morning and hello, and it's good to see you. Marc Ronick: Great to see you again. Oh, go ahead, Sid. Sid Meadows: I just fill up my I'm looking at my computer, doing something.. I'm multitasking because it's news down at my screen, and I see Amanda below me, and I've just literally about fell out of my chair. Good morning, Fred. It is so great to have to see you. I saw you sneak in yesterday, too, by the.. Marc Ronick: yes. Amanda Sharp: and there was an interview going on, so I obviously was not going to internet, you know, interrupt that, but it was still fun to just be in the room and listen, Marc Ronick: yeah, and that was why I reached out to Amanda yesterday, was because I wanted, to come today, and I'm so glad. And Amanda, how is content creating going for you? You are still at it.

22:45 I still see lots of content that you're posting, and I certainly have noticed the your town, your store, and that seems to be the focal point now of your content. So, how is everything going? Amanda Sharp: It is going better dreamed. It is just so fabulous. It's the rewards every single day that all of the seeds that I planted for years that I get to sow now is just so unbelievable. I don't know, it feels like a dream every day that I get to do what I'm doing, and that this is my life. It's just amazing, and it's not that I didn't have some terribly hard Marc Ronick: years. Yeah, yeah, it's Amanda Sharp: really savoring the season that I'm in.

23:27 Of again, the effort that I put in years ago is just actually doing something now. Marc Ronick: Yeah, and that's, I I mean, sometimes we've talked, just as recently as yet last week where we're talking about the grind we were talking about with Sid, right? And sometimes after putting so much time and effort into the content and feeling like, when is this ever, is this worth it anymore? That's usually the time when things start to click here and there, but it's so cool to hear that it's really clicked for you. And if is there anything big going on that you want to share with Amanda Sharp: us? Oh my gosh, there I just feel like there's just so many things, and I'll quote Sid from years ago, even like the smaller things are such wins, so there's still extraordinary in the ordinary, and I think that's just something that my eyes so clearly see now that every single little thing is just a joy and a win. So, I've got big things going on, little things going on. We're building a barn, and that's fully funded today. I don't know, almost a year ago to the date, I started on a mission to replace two sisters' roofs that were just in terrible disarray, and it started yesterday, and they're getting their new roof this week, so that feels really good. It's Marc Ronick: all related to the content that you put out. This is, it is, Amanda Sharp: yeah, yeah. What I mean, what it comes down to, I'm a professional beggar, and the people really love that, and they just, they support it, and they send

24:57 money, and I get to use those things. To do really great things for the community and the surrounding areas, and that just, it's a gift to be able to do that. It's a gift to be able to use that gift of being a professional beggar. And I think the biggest thing was a couple years ago when I started it. I mean, people knew I was sincere, but I didn't have any the things I was begging for, helicopter Easter eggs out of belt, two fall festivals. money just comes so much easily easier because people see what we've done with money and know really good things. So it's just been really easy to get the money now, and that just feels really good, but not from, again, not putting years of work into it.

25:45 Marc Ronick: That's awesome. I am so happy for you, and I want you to share. For those who may not know, where should they follow you, and what's yeah, what's that handle to follow you? Amanda Sharp: So, Presto's on Facebook, or Amanda Sharp on TikTok, those seem to be my favorite places, and I just hit 10,000 followers on my Facebook page for the store. Marc Ronick: Nice. Amanda Sharp: So that was a lot of hard work to get there. My goal, I was at 5000 in January, so my goal was to get to 10 by the end of the year. I hit it this month, just yesterday. Yeah, so I don't.. I don't even know what I just saw that this morning, so I don't even know what my new goal is. I just don't know, like, it just.. it's just good, but it's not.. I like, I have to be so careful when I'm saying it's so good. It's just that I've put in so much work. Yeah, so it's not like I just been handed this stuff. There's been years of a lot of effort being put into it, so I.. it's not that I'm bragging, I'm just really enjoying again that that work has turned into something amazing. Marc Ronick: I love it.

26:45 And thank you for sharing. Thank you for coming by here, Amanda. And please feel free to stick around and chime in whenever you'd like. And, man, when I say it's old school day, it really is. I see Julie Logan has joined us in the audience here on Clubhouse as well. Very cool to see some old and by old, I just mean familiar All right, so with that, let's dig into some more news. And the first place I want to start is Sure Microphones. They're offering discounts across their microphone and earphone lineup without locking the deals to just one online retailer. This is according to POG News.

27:28 The Shure website lists the current savings, including $66 off the SM 7b that's the mic I'm using right now, and those deals are available through Amazon and other authorized dealers across North America, and I'll add this: Shure is probably my favorite microphone brand. They've been reliable, they prices I'm seeing right now are the best I've seen in a long time. So, if you've been thinking about upgrading your mic, there's Ralph's. He's got one of one of these as well. That this might be one of those moments where waiting could cost you. So, if sure, microphones, if you like the mic that I'm using right now, think it sounds good, or you've been eyeballing maybe the MV seven.

28:16 This is your chance, because again, I have not seen prices this low for quite a while. DR: Prime days isn't, I think it's in line with Marc Ronick: Prime Day. Yes, but they're not just offering it on Amazon. Those discounts, you can get them all at sure.com/well I'll put this in the show notes, special dash offer, so not the you go. Go check that out, and we will put that in the show notes as well. Let's see here next for you. Pod News is also reporting recently that a new AI podcast company called Fast Cast is flooding podcast directories shows. I just realized I was going to do this more toward the end, but oh well, here we are.

29:09 The company now has over 600 shows under the Daily News Now brand, all hosted by an AI voice called Cory with the Story, and it's now selling sponsorships across individual categories. The episodes are short, timely updates, which means Fast Cast is clearly betting on volume, speed, and niche targeting. But here's where it gets interesting for podcasters, if it hasn't gotten interesting already. Unlike Inception Point AI, talked about before, Fast Cast that con the content is AI line with Apple Podcasts' Meanwhile, Pod News notes that Inception Point AI said.

29:59 On the podcast advertising playbook podcast that it has decided not to include an audio acknowledgement for shorter shows, so now the question becomes, as AI-generated podcasts keep multiplying, will transparency become the trust builder or just another box company's check while they pump more synthetic content into the feed, so I know that many people in this community have strong opinions on AI-generated podcasts. If a podcast is completely transparent about their content being fully AI-generated, do you I see you're shaking your head.

30:41 No, what do you know? Ralph Estep Jr.: I think if you disclose it and people want to listen to that, I say, 'Hey, amen, enjoy. I think it just needs to be clearly delineated. know, as Rob Walsh said, a very good point yesterday. He said some things people aren't going to make, you know, you're not going to have somebody sitting there and making local podcasts for weather forecast or for super down, you know, stuff that's just repeatable information, like how's the ski report today, Chuck? You know, that's totally cool. I think, as long as, and honestly, to be blunt, like, I don't even know if you have to disclose it, because most people can figure that out too, just by listening to it, but I think you go the extra mile by putting a little tag at the front, this is AI-generated content, if people still get value in it, then hey, that's fantastic. Go ahead, Dan.

31:26 Dan: Yeah, people, excuse me, I mean, as much as I think you you're using AI, people don't Like, I remember how annoyed I was in about a year and a half ago watching TikTok, when all of a sudden I'd hear that one guy's voice, everyone knows that the guy, there's like a billion that guy's voice or that girl's voice, it's the same dude, everyone's like this guy again, and it's like you instantly know that this is an AI voice, because if he says I read the book the other day, he might end up saying, I read the book the other day, like, you know, they're using words, like everything is ridiculous, but here's the biggest issue, and it's really good that this actually coming out and saying Point isn't, and all of that are far more black hat types of people out there who will never do it. It's just another way for them to quickly try to game a system, game an algorithm, and try to make some quick money, and leave.

32:33 And this happens in marketing over and over and over again. And this is why it's really like I'm a marketer at heart, it's what I've been doing for 35 years. It's, I hate when marketers get into things and mess it up for everyone, because ultimately, what will happen, it's like the same thing that happens with credit cards, you know, the government comes in and says, hey, you guys are charging pretty high rates, yep, no, we're good, we're not going to do it anymore, then they keep doing it, and the government comes in, and we'll say, you guys are really charging a lot of extra fees and extra rates. Don't worry about it, good. Well, fake, because if you're not, if you don't knock it off, we're going to come in and lay some rules down.

33:14 Yep, we got you, boss. And then they keep messing around, and then pretty soon the government has to come in and say you a holes, we told kept screwing around with Now here are the rules you have to live by. It's happened with banks, it's happened with advertising, it's happened with, I mean, like any niche, telemarketing, text marketing, anything like that. And the bigger problem is not that like it's always good to identify when you're using AI, because if you're responsible, you will do that, and I agree with Ralph a little bit, that it probably doesn't matter, just like I said, huh, here's that guy again, and people keep listening to the same voice on Tick Tock for a billion videos in a row, and nobody seems to care.

34:01 Marc Ronick: Yeah, agreed. And I will say this. I know you said that most people can tell right now, but Dan: yeah, Marc Ronick: hold on a second. Dan: That's a giveaway right There's the real diamond AI right there. Marc Ronick: That's right. But at the same time, I think as it improves, it's going to be So I think right now it's important to, yeah, identify those shows, because if we're not doing it now, it's going to be way too late later down the road, because I really believe at some point it's going to be almost impossible to tell the difference. So more to come on that. Junaid, did you want to add something? Junaid: Hey, good morning Yes, I would love to add something to this topic, so if we just look at the numbers, right, we are, we have been using AI as ChatGPT, cloud, all those platforms, and there's over 200 plus million people using AI to get their news already, so this is just one more medium.

34:59 That's now taking the hit of AI content, and yet you're agreeing, and then you're not, everybody on the stage here whatever, and taking that with a are actively using it, and we are, and we are on the top, you know, 2% of the content creators, but the consumers don't even think about half of the stuff that we think about. Yeah, so to get that perspective, right? So the people that are going to say, "Oh, this is AI, are people like us, but the people who listen to podcasts just to get their news, just to get over, are not really going to think about any of that, so it's a good thing, but not really. I don't know.

35:49 I think we're heading towards the matrix. Who knows? Marc Ronick: Yeah, well, that's the.. I can't argue with that. BC, I'm gonna give you the final BC Babbles: Yeah, well, you know I was trying to find a way to redact my pepper. I was gonna say, I think it depends on whether or not the podcast is promoting some kind of sale of something. A lot of what I've been reading kind of really suggests this kind of counterweight with AI's admins to the trust economy of the audience, but I think that's more business in general, so I think maybe niching that argument down to podcast might not stand as well, but that's the trend I've been seeing when looking at business development, is that even though there's a lot of presumption that using AI to optimize this process or that solution for businesses, it correlation with audience too broad of an argument for the Marc Ronick: Thank you, BC.

36:52 Appreciate the final word on that story. Dr. You have the next story, go for it. DR: I do. I just wanted to acknowledge James has come from the audience on stage, and Marc Ronick: same with Rez as well. Yes, DR: so I just wanted to acknowledge that a little bit. So black voices are reshaping podcast growth. A new Forbes piece argues that black podcasting is becoming a real trend with black-led shows outperforming expectations, even without the same media exposure, marketing money, or institutional support that larger podcast brands often get. The growth appears to be driven by community loyalty, authentic voices, and creators building direct relationships with audiences instead of waiting for door.

37:50 podcasting as a space where trust are doing the heavy traditional promotion. Many shows are growing through word of mouth, digital communities, live events, and targeted advertising that makes this less about a temporary spotlight and more about a shift in where podcasts influence our influence is being built. Sorry, as podcasting keeps talking about growth, this story shows where some of that growth is actually coming from. Black creators are building loyal audiences, strong communities, and commercial value, often without the support systems that should have been paying attention years ago. Marc Ronick: Yeah, and that's great news, because that's that particular community that we - I've seen so many people trying to bring that community forward in podcasting, you know. I know some of the people over at the Black Podcasters Association, and I know it's a very strong community that Corey has built over there, and I, it's great to see I'm not saying that necessarily it's all to do with the BPA, but at the same time, it's great to see that this community has formed into something formal, and that they're really supporting each other and really lifting up the black community in this space. I think it's long overdue, and really excited to see that article from Forbes.

39:22 Thank you, DR. And I'm trying to see here if I need to make a pivot or not, but BC, did you have something else? BC Babbles: Yeah, a quick So, are these shows that are DUI without becoming like DR: Forbes piece did not address It just, yeah, it did not address, yeah, Marc Ronick: but I think it was definitely sharing how this community is in fact really doing this independently, more so than than anything. Yeah, so, yeah, good question. Okay, so I'm gonna jump, DR. Let's. Jump to one of our headline stories here. Story number six, because Netflix here and there for a into this podcast game, and I DR: Yeah, so podcast video may Netflix's big video podcast push of engagement the streamer hoped cited by Awful Announcing, who did the report, it's called Awful Announcing.

40:34 No video podcast has landed on Nielsen's weekly top 10 so far, even though Netflix often dominates that chart, sources also told Puck's Matthew Bellini, baloney, baloney, that is baloney. Okay, that podcast engagement numbers on Netflix are low overall. Netflix has made major deals Ringer, Barstool Sports, and versions of popular podcasts to the platform, but so far putting big name shows in front of Netflix subscribers may not be enough to change how people Shocking development, people may not want to open Netflix to watch three people talk onto microphones, you know.

41:26 Marc Ronick: Hmmmm DR: This is significant because video podcasting is being treated like the next big growth lane, but Netflix early, but Netflix's early results suggest that audience behavior does not move just because the platform makes a deal. If fans already listen to Spotify, Apple, YouTube, or podcast apps, Netflix may need more than access to change the habit. Marc Ronick: Yeah, so I'm about Netflix and podcasting news days. Why do we think it is that podcasts on Netflix seem to not be working right now?

42:09 What's the problem? Their DR: marketing.. Marc Ronick: well, I was That could definitely be one of the things, right? Like, they're not really doing a good job of promoting it. I think that's where a lot of this could start, Dan. I see you wanted to chime in as one of our marketing people here. Dan: Yeah, I mean, ultimately Netflix probably isn't going to make a change because they don't Their business model is we got a bunch of stuff here, and we are asking you to pay 20 bucks a month, and if we need to throw some podcasts in. edge? I mean, we already got good TV shows, good movies, good documentaries. How about if we throw some video games in? Yeah, that help you. I mean, it's all getting pushed over the edge to where the consumer thinks 1999 is a good deal. It's what built, you know, HBO and everything.

43:03 like well they better learn how to deliver really great podcasts and what their audience really wants, their audience just wants a reason to pay 1999 when their spouse is saying like do we have to have Hulu and Netflix and DR: I'm and Mike Ryan, it's exactly what Brian says, your husband, yeah, Dan: and DR: yes, yeah, Dan: and it's because you are the problem, because you keep pushing him to buy more and more Marc Ronick: stuff, the subscription queen over there, yeah, and I gotta say, John, in the chat, by the way, John, we were just talking about you before the show started, just saying how we hadn't seen you in a minute. So, welcome back, and John in the chat says, I think I know the issue.

43:48 No one goes to Netflix for podcasts, and yes, I agree with you there. And again, I would, I would say if they were actually promoting it, maybe that would help a little bit, but yeah, I mean, for the most part, it doesn't feel like a perfect match as far as podcasting and Netflix goes. something. Go ahead, Rez. Rez: Hey, Martin, you know the generally grab my popcorn to Ronick: right? Rez: You know what I mean, I'm always like kind of doing something, cleaning the house. I'm not stationary, so yeah, I don't think it's a Netflix thing sense. It's just not the type of way you would consume a podcast.

44:34 BC, you had something else. BC Babbles: Yeah, I'm gonna say it's the variety that they offered. It's all kind of the same stuff that already dominates everywhere else. It's true crime, it's sports, it's some horse, DR: a lot of culinary BC Babbles: subs. Well, for me, it's like if it was something different, like say if it was like Tea Time with Raven and Miranda, or like anything that's more niche, or that's not part of the. Was the same stuff that guess that would have been this, technically for business. If these categories dominate everywhere else, surely it'll for me it's boring, because we I'm on this show, so we talk about it all the time, but every.. I think also anyone who enjoys podcasts kind of inherently knows these things dominate everywhere else too, so what makes this Netflix brand of podcasting any different, even if they have huge budgets behind point. Marc Ronick: Yeah, great points.

45:33 By the way, Simba, welcome. He's checking in over on the video stream. Great to see you here as well. And again, if anybody's interested in checking out the video during or after the live stream, that's Podcasting Morning show.com/join us. Amanda, you were flashing a siren, so I'm curious if you Amanda Sharp: Yes, and I didn't realize it went, and I'm so sorry I didn't interrupted. Oh, it am I side like obnoxiously, I couldn't find the pepper, I couldn't find the pepper, no problem. I guess I didn't realize I've been out of the loop that Netflix was allowing the podcast, which to me, like, I have parents who are never gonna go to the YouTube, you know, that is one thing that they're just not gonna go to. So I feel like if I were to find a podcast that I think my mom would enjoy listening.

46:21 She does have Netflix on her phone, and so I feel like for my parents, and maybe the parents' age, it's an app that they're comfortable with, and they don't feel like it's going to like put something in front of their face that they don't want to see. Yeah, so I think for like my parents it's kind of perfect that I could send them a link to that, and they would be okay and comfortable to listen to it in a safe spot, Marc Ronick: yeah, that makes a lot of sense, yeah, there are probably certain types of consumers that it could work better for, and again, look, I mean, we've all been talking about Netflix for months now, as far as podcasts are concerned, yet, like, Amanda didn't even know yet, right, people still have no clue that this is something that's offered on Netflix, so I go back to again, if, if Netflix, to Dan's point, if they really care, then I think they need to do a better job marketing this, right?

47:15 But I get what Dan's saying too, this is their way of saying, hey, you know, it, we offer so much for that $20 a month. What are you talking about? You want it less? Why? We give you podcasts too, and video games, and all this stuff. But the truth is, do we really want it in the first place? Do is that what people want from Netflix? So more to come there. Okay, let's see. We do have some time here, so let me share this story. And again, this is something that I know we talk about often here and there. front door, and certainly we've talked about some places where it says it, it is some places But a new report from Sounds Solutions says podcast discovery happening inside podcast apps.

48:13 of listeners said they podcast on YouTube, which was individual source, YouTube was platform by 40% of listeners. Ahead of Spotify at 18% and Apple Podcasts at 11% And when you add social platforms like Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram into the mix, 61% of listeners said they discovered their favorite podcast through either YouTube or social media, so for indie podcasters that's the part that should make everybody sit up a little straighter.

48:54 Discovery is moving toward the places where people already spend their time, not necessarily the places where podcasters have traditionally couple of other little stats, if For example, TikTok discovery, according to this research, is much stronger with younger listeners, which matters for creators trying to reach that audience of say under 35 years old, Spotify discovered listeners were described as highly engaged and brand responsive, which could matter for creators who care about sponsor value. Apple Podcasts still appears useful for reaching more affluent audio first listeners, especially in categories like news and tech.

49:42 else. Yeah, I think that those are the highlights from the article. So, where do you think I'm curious if anybody would be willing to share, and if you know, or even if you just have a hunch, where do you think most people are discovering your show right now? Is it YouTube? It tick tock is it word of mouth. Yes, Sid, go ahead. Sid Meadows: So this is a really something I've been really I will tell you that I believe the most effective - I'm going to put them in order - the most effective is just there's no science behind this, by the way. Okay, so let's be clear, I believe the most effective for me is simply telling somebody about my show, and I try to do that every day. I try to talk about my show to one person every day. The second is the referral, where somebody is sharing an episode with someone else, sharing it on social The third, we have seen an increase in views, and we can't directly correlate it yet to plays on Apple or Spotify or the other platforms. When we post YouTube Shorts, we do see an uptick in reach, and we can't correlate it directly, but definitely I believe that YouTube is providing some reach.

51:00 say is we've been really focused players, so what are we putting inside of Busprout? I made a change this morning, get really irritated when I go out and search my keywords and I'm not really showing up the way I want to show up. So this morning I went in and outside of my name I added a tagline, not my name, sorry, next to the title of the show, I added a tagline to see if that will have that has its keyword rich, that hopefully will help us get discovered, because I know that's what Apple and Spotted look at first is the title, and I'm not going to change the name of my show, so I added a short tagline there, and So that's my thoughts. Marc Ronick: Okay,vI love it.

51:49 Thank you, Sid, for that detailed explanation. I think that's really helpful. And what we're going to do is Ralph's going to share how his show gets discovered most. And before we hear from him, I want to hear from Rez, who wanted to chime in. Go ahead, Rez. Rez: Thanks, Marc. Basically, I just wanted to.. I don't have any evidence for the data, but for me it's certainly Instagram is the number one way. Like, I don't find myself going to YouTube a lot unless I know what I'm searching for, whereas Instagram. like, I'm just scrolling through the feed and different stuff pops up, so to me it just makes the most sense. I don't know, am I? What's your take on that?

52:30 Marc Ronick: Yeah, okay, so I side of things. Right, this is how Rez finds podcasts, and he's saying that the most popular platform he goes to is Instagram, and yeah, that makes sense. I think, honestly, Rez, it's probably the same for me too. I think I discover new podcasts most from Instagram and TikTok, because I see the clips, and if they catch my attention, and I'm really interested in what they're talking about, yeah, I might - I'll probably go and check out their podcast, you leave the platform that a short form content platform to go to a do it, that's where I find it. Those clips are like commercials I may not subscribe right away, but I'll probably go and check out the episode where I was just hooked.

53:25 Yeah, absolutely. All right, Ralph, so how are you discovered? Most, Ralph Estep Jr.: so I take a lot different approach to this. I throw money at it, to be blunt, and I have done a ton of advertising. Right now, I'm in the midst of a big player FM purchase, and the numbers have been amazing, like I am just seeing numbers at 3,000% increase in subscribers, 3,000% increase in the number of downloads, and these aren't big buys, I mean, these are like I use the term big buy, they're $500.15 day buys, and the numbers, and what I thought was going to happen, Mark, is I thought as soon as the ad was over, the numbers are going to fall off, but they're not. And the other thing I'm seeing is, when I dig into the data, that's one of the beauties about the host company. I use Captivate, not that I'm plugging them, but they're really good statistics.

54:16 When I look at the stats, I can see where the listeners are coming from, and they're not not from particular cities, they the whole platform, so to me that speaks volumes. It's not just some bot farm that's this eating up these things, so for me that's the way I've grown my exposure and my audience. That's not for everybody, that's not for the hobbyist, I totally get that, but to be blunt, I'm doing mine to generate my brand and to make myself known in the market, yeah, Ralph Estep Jr.: and it works, so I mean, but, but I'm throwing money at it, to be blunt, Marc Ronick: yeah, and I don't have a problem with that, and I honestly, it bothers me when people do have a problem with that, right, and I think that those people that have a problem with podcasters and creators. Is putting money into advertising. I think that a lot of times, not it's more like, well, I'm not able to do it.

55:09 Why are you able to do it, right? Like, I think there's a little bit of that sometimes that plays into Ralph Estep Jr.: well, and I agree, because if you think about it, if you have a brick and mortar store, if you're Home Depot or Lowe's, or you have a restaurant, what do you do? You advertise, you pay to advertise. on the planet that people a genuine intentional investment working. And I am meeting people, I've got exposure that I wouldn't have had before, and I've got a great team behind me. Cindy joined me as my publicist. She's been doing a great job of getting me out in front of people too. So the multi-tier thing that I've done, Mark, and that's what's working for me. Marc Ronick: Yep. And Rob Walsh, the Sid Meadows: question. Marc Ronick: Yeah, hold on one second. Rob Walsh, he talked about this a little bit yesterday, right? Like it's okay to invest money, it's a matter of where are you investing your money.

56:00 Some of these people, like you were pointing out, Ralph, is that you know sometimes people are buying these farms, we'll call them, right, these content farms, and they're, and that's why he mentioned the foreign country thing, because a lot of times when you're not actually paying for advertising, but you're just paying to boost your numbers, a lot of those numbers are coming from random foreign countries. All right, go ahead, Sid Sid Meadows: Ralph. My question for you is, are you driving them to your YouTube channel or to your audio version of your show? Ralph Estep Jr.: These the audio version of my show. I spent a lot of time and a lot of money on the YouTube side, and I grew my subscriber list to I'm at like 800,000 subscribers now, and you know that was intentional, but now I'm really moving towards the audio side.

56:51 Sid, Sid Meadows: okay? Thank you. I just was curious, where you were sending them, and when you said you were doing it with FM, whatever, and I assumed it was audio, yeah, player FM, I assumed it was the audio version, but I know you're a YouTube first, a video first, podcasts, and then audio second. So I just was curious. Ralph Estep Jr.: And Sid, I want your attention. The other thing that I've been watching, I have a website for each one of my shows. The website traffic is increasing substantially as well, so that tells me that people are not only consuming the content, they're looking at the show notes, they're clicking So I think it's building, it's driving the brand, which is the whole point. Sid Meadows: Love that.

57:34 Well, and you bring up something that I think is really, we've talked about this many times before, is have a website for your podcast, Rez was talking about a minute you where they're coming from, coming from social, it's that's really, really great are finding, and they tell you even better, right, so you get a something, when you have a to your Google Analytics. Sorry, Marc, I will quit interrupting. Marc Ronick: No, please. Ralph Estep Jr.: I want to say Yes, but have a good website. Have a site that is updated with information, not just, 'Hey, I just posted new content, click here. That's one of the intentional things I do as well. I write a blog post for every piece of content I put out. The team that I have working with me, we are very intentional about bringing value to the website, because the worst thing you can do is send somebody to your website and it's the same stale stuff that they saw yesterday. So, I agree with you, Sid, but I would just.. I would add to that, you know what they call that an adjective of, or that a great website.

58:40 Marc Ronick: Yeah, I, Ralph, I You know, I'm working with one of my clients at Ironic Media right now. We're helping them with their meta ads, and not just for their podcasts, but for their whole ecosystem, and the numbers so far are looking really impressive. However, what that client has come to us, not complaining, but maybe I'll say it with a little bit of concern, because they're saying things aren't converting, and I'm saying, well, but here's the deal, the numbers show that we're sending people there, and Meta is sending lots of people and rethink the website, what's happening, why are they there, and then going away, right?

59:23 we're trying to do this as lead magnets, where people will drop their email address for aren't dropping their email interested, because they're Why aren't they then leaving the So that's a really important point. Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, and an issue with your landing page, hard way too. Is that landing page is not committing, and that's just numbers you got to look at, you know that as well as I do. Marc, oh, we got people here, but they didn't do anything with it. We got to update our landing page and see why that Marc Ronick: is. Yep, 100% So, yeah, Sid Meadows: and I. Said I was going to quit. I'm not. That's okay. I love Marc Ronick: it. Go ahead. Sid Meadows: This is an analyze your data of what's Grab your Google Analytics, export it to a CSV file.

1:00:16 I put mine into Claude and gave me like all this insights, and then it had some interesting facts, and then I could, I did not, but I could ask it for recommendations for improvement, right? So this is an excellent use case for AI, because Mark, your client Ralph said it, their people are landing on the landing page there, they're getting there, but something is not keeping them there, there's something about it that they don't see the value to giving you the golden ticket, which is their email address. Yes, Marc Ronick: 100% So we will be looking into that, and yeah, that's a great idea. And on top of that, now with things like Claude Bot, right, where you could actually even have it go and look at that web page and give you feedback as far as how does it look that where can we improve upon it, etc. So that piled with the analytics could be a really powerful tool and lesson for this particular creator. So more to come.

1:01:15 I'll share more about that as we go here. And a reminder that we're back tomorrow at 7am 8am I'm still using the old time, 8am Eastern time. And tomorrow we'll be opening up the mail bag. We're going to probably be art, that one has come up in the revisit really the do's and series cover art, or cover it. So, come join us tomorrow, 8am Eastern, at Podcasting Morning show.com/join us. And until then, make it a great day, everybody. Take care.