299 - Tackling Taboo Topics and Mental Health in Podcasting

0:05 Good morning podcasting morning chat. Today is Thursday, May 7th and today we're discussing how we address taboo is stigmatized topics in podcasting, particularly in as it relates to mental health. But we're not just talking about what's uncomfortable. We're exploring how audio storyteller can change and challenge systems, amplify hidden truths, and all for healing without compromising sensitivity. Whether you're a podcaster, a mental health advocate, or just curious, this space is for you. So lean in, listen deeply, and don't be afraid to share boldly. Let's rewrite the way we talk about what matters. So if you're listening here live here on Clubhouse, please hit the share button at the bottom left hand side of the screen and share it.

0:53 However, Clubhouse allows you to do that. And if you're listening via podcaster YouTube, please share this podcast with a fellow podcaster. Now give us 30 seconds to allow people to do As my grandmother would say, come on in the room. We are so glad you're here. Now, I admit that was not quite 30 seconds, but I'm a podcaster. Forgive me. I like to talk, right. So again, good morning, everyone. Thank you so much for welcome and coming into the podcasting morning chat. If you're new here, this is your first time. Hey, welcome.

1:37 So glad you're here. My name is Dominic Lawson, and I'm going to kind of take the reins here as marks over there gallivanting around Spain. Yes, I did use the word gallivanting. So again, I do have my partners in crime here. We do have Ashley, Dan, Dr. Nicholas, Jonathan who's going to kind of be my copilot today in this discussion and Sid Meadows. Good morning everybody. How's everybody doing this morning? So listen, let me just talk about why we are here today. So today is May 7th and so we are definitely in the the first quarter of mental health awareness month. And as many people may know, I am creating a brand new project called Mental Health Rewritten where we talk about these very things, these stigmatized topics, these taboo topics, if you will.

2:25 And podcasting is always been, I believe, a great form and a great platform to have these conversations. But before I get deeply into today's conversation, I do understand that today is Wednesday and so you got to have a little bit of news when you're doing the podcasting morning chat. So I'll just share a little bit of news today. So the Communicator Award winners were announced yesterday and we do have a few winners in this community that I definitely wanted to kind of highlight, if you will, my wife, our show, The B Word was able to win a few Communicator awards. So I'm definitely excited about that. But also Amanda Yola with her show picked up two Communicator Awards as well.

3:13 So we definitely want to make sure we champion that as well. Now before I kind of move on, I want to see if any of the moderators want to kind of chime in or anything. I should share just now because I don't want to hog the mic. That'll be just kind of terrible. Dominic, congratulations to your wife and to Amanda. Yo, that's really awesome. Was she excited? She was she was actually, as far as my wife goes, I texted her while she was at work and her phone was dead all day, so everybody kind of knew it before she did. So that's kind of funny. And as far as Amanda Yole go, she actually texted me yesterday morning. She was like, I think I want to communicate awards like, yeah, you did because I saw your name there. So we had a conversation yesterday morning as well.

3:56 So I was really excited about that. So I think it just goes to show see it that like, you know, again, one night when I talk about, you know, submitting for awards in this community to just bet on yourself, right, And and just see where it goes because you just never know, you know, what may happen, what you can also even leverage when it comes to winning awards, being nominated for awards, things of that nature. So definitely excited for both of them and also all of the winners as well. Like to shout out a few people, Tony Kennedy for what's pop and Penny, a very fantastic children's show as well. And also my good friend Christine Mcpartland, who has a show called Mind the Force, which is a Star Wars theme mental health podcast that I really appreciate.

4:45 She was also an Amy nominee as well. So definitely shout out to them as well. And anybody else who picked up Communicator Awards as well yesterday come particularly Independent podcast as we really care about the big ones. I kid, I'm just joking. Anyways, let's get to today's topic. So like I said, you know, working on a new project, it actually launches a week from today and I'm really excited about it. And I'm glad Dan's here because I was able to collaborate with him on this very project that I'm super excited about. The reason I want to have this conversation today, it's because I believe as relates to tough topics, particularly when it comes to mental health, that it's important to call what something is what it is.

5:33 And forgive the redundancy, but The thing is, you know how we have, you know, we have YouTube channels and podcasts and stuff like that where people will say on alive as opposed to something else, right? They'll say, you know, or, you know, if something happens as relates to a sexual assault, if you will, they won't say those things. They'll say essay or something like that. And let me just say this now as a disclaimer. If any of these topics or themes that we talked about today could be triggering, just know that it is OK to kind of take a break or leave the room. We definitely want to have that disclaimer and protect you and your mental health as we have these conversations. But I think honestly, it's important to say what The thing is and I think you could do that in a respectful manner. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine the other day. He was asking me about, you know, the type of topics that we're going to talk about on mental health rewritten, and one of those is suicide.

6:33 And he asked me, well, Dominique, you know, are you actually going to say that word or like, well, yes, I am. Because I think sometimes when we don't call the thing what The thing is, that only heightens the shame, that only heightens the stigma, that only heightens the taboo Ness of something, right? And so if we're trying to help people save lives as it relates to mental health and what happens between our ears, I think it's important to call it what it is. And I don't think you have to be, you know, salacious. I don't think you have to be over the top with it. But I guess I just want to kind of throw the first question out to the room when you are talking about tough topics, taboo topics, things that have stigma attached to them, even if you mean it in a joyful in a helpful way or something like that, how do you address them?

7:28 How do you have to, how are you able to maintain the balance between over the top, but also being respectful that that question makes sense and that question is just for the floor. Whoever wants to answer that, go ahead, Sid. So I've had a couple of these on my podcast topics that I don't know a lot about and that maybe I'm a little uncomfortable with. And I try to approach them with curiosity and asking questions to understand the topic and not judge it or offer an opinion on it. I just try to be curious about it in hopes that we can impart some value to the listener to who likely is being in the same position I am in, that they don't understand it to bring clarity to it and understanding.

8:14 So that's curiosity is the word that came to mind. Dominic No, I, I love that and I appreciate that. And that's actually one of the strategies that I often use in my work, even dating back to my work at Meadows Behavioral Healthcare, No relation to Sid Meadows, by the way. I feel like I have to say that. But yeah, you're absolutely right. You know, so as a, as a person who is not a clinician, strictly has empathy and, and, and sees himself as a mental health advocate, definitely just want to walk into the room and just be curious. Like don't talk. Don't just shut up and just listen and, and be curious. So I, I definitely rock with that. See it for sure.

8:57 And I definitely want to get Dan in here because I know Dan definitely know something about this as we have had conversations about very sensitive topics. Go ahead, Dan. Hey, thank you and good morning. I had to think about this one for a minute and and reflect on how I've managed to navigate conversations that may be sensitive. And I'll tell you the biggest thing I've learned is sometimes trying to be sensitive to the topic can be more difficult or create more stress in the environment than just being direct. And I absolutely agree with being curious and listening, but not trying to sugarcoat anything is what I found to be most effective. You know, if if we're talking about suicide, well, would you want to be direct?

9:47 If we're talking about sexual assault, you want to be direct. Call it what it is and still be curious. That would be my $0.02. 100% like I, like I said at the top of this show, right, like I think, you know, and to your point is like that hesitation, I think sometimes that hesitation in that, that over correction, if you would of hesitation, I guess can sometimes cause harm. Because I, I think one of the things that we know, whether it's, you know, a behavioral health challenge or even a physical health challenge, right? Once we know what the diagnosis is, once we know what a thing is, the level of empowerment that you have, they're like, okay, I know what this is.

10:28 We know how to confront this now. And now we can build a path forward as to healing and, and things of that nature. And I just want to reiterate that me and Dan collaborated on this very conversation as a relates to sexual assault. And we had a fantastic conversation that I think it's going to help a lot of people, if you will. And also I would be remiss because my marketing team is going to be upset with me. I have to let you know that the new trailer of Mental Health Rewritten trailer #2 is now out today just as a few hours ago. So make sure you check that out as we can a ramp up for the brand new project that launches a week from now. Hey, Nick, I think I saw your hand up next and then Alexandra.

11:08 So I'm gonna go to you first, Sir, if you don't mind. Yeah, I wanted to ask a question, but I don't want to derail where we're going. So go to Alexandra 1st and then we can come back. Alright, we'll we'll swing it back around to you. Alexandra, go for it. How are you, ma'am? Hey, yeah, I had to make sure that I was up for this conversation. Is actually funny. Just for clarity, we're talking about how to approach subjects when you're trying to talk. About tough subjects, you know, particularly as it relates to mental health and behavioral health. But if it if it's not, you know, go for it. I think that there's also some importance there, but go for it. Oh no, 'cause I will say, even though I am not by any means necessary a health provider, I feel like I am uniquely qualified because I tell people all the time I'm an alphabet soup of mental and emotional issues.

11:58 And my thing is, if you want to know something asked me because I was raised by mom, whose whole mentality about when she would deal with people is like you might not like when you stand with me, but you go no, will you stand with me? She has AT shirt that she loves to wear now and it says I match energy. So how we act in today, and I feel like to a certain extent, that's the mentality I feel would be the best when approaching sensitive topics, especially if you if you're not someone in that community. Because, and I'm going to equate it kind of sort of to the whole racial tension thing is that if you don't call it out, then people are just going to then pick.

12:45 It makes it easier for people to put their head in it, you know, to pull an ostrich, put their head down and just be like, well, that's not what she meant because it leaves too much open for interpretation and the conversation. That's where things always in my opinion go South is when they certain things are left to interpretation. So just I'm going to quote my mother because I love her. So just call a pig, pork and an elephant heavy and just say it. Don't tiptoe it around around it because it just as someone again speaking from someone in that space, I don't want to be treated like I made a glass because that just that just makes me feel even worse. I'm not made of porcelain.

13:26 No, I feel that. I feel that. Thank you, Alexandra. First of all, by the way, let your mom not want to borrow that shirt or ask her where I can get that shirt from because I'm all about that. But no, you're absolutely right. And again, I think it, it leads to, you know, what we were talking about early as far as like, call it for what it is. And I think, and I'm glad Denise is here. Denise is a trauma therapist. She's in the audience there. She's also somebody I've consulted with as it relates to the creation of mental health rewritten. That's one of the things I learned at the Meadows where it's like, you know, they don't tiptoe around these things that are happening, right? They really do call something what it is with compassion, with love, but also with honesty, right?

14:08 And I think that honesty piece is so important when it comes to having these conversations, particularly on a platform like podcasting that is definitely growing for sure. So before we kind of shift gears, well, you know Jonathan, I think you had your hand raised. So Jonathan is my copilot here today. Jonathan, I think you want to chime in here before we get the Nick, before we kind of switch gears here. Yeah. So I just wanted to actually with what Alexander said, you know, what's really important for me when you're dealing with subjects as you've got somebody in the room that is deeply in, you know, understands the information or has gone through an experience so that you have somebody that you can refer to in these in these instances.

14:53 Storytelling is going to be huge when you're dealing with this because you want people that really know what's going on and what's happening. And you know, it's a great to have an example in order to discuss these topics. Well said, Sir. Thank you, Jonathan. I appreciate that. Yeah, I will say when the first time I got treated back in 2015, my first mental breakdown, I'll just, like I said, call it out. My outpatient group therapy, we weren't allowed to actually say what the trauma or what the issue was that we were talking about when we were in Group because it could trigger someone else. And like, well, that's not helpful. It's not helpful to not be able to say what happened to me and have to use code words when we're all here.

15:38 Not necessarily for the same exact experience, but it's not helpful. Absolutely. And I and I appreciate you sharing that and going deeper with that Alexandra for sure. Hey, Nick, what's going on, man? You say you wanted to kind of ask a question posed to the wrong. Go for it. I'll answer sort of answer the question that you asked and then I have a follow up question for you. So I know my wife worked in a wide range of jobs helping people with a variety of mental health issues from autism, like super low functioning to high functioning. And I think one of the biggest things I've learned from watching her through a lot of that was no matter what it is, whatever the mental health or physical health thing is, is remembering that everybody's a person.

16:31 We're all people. Everybody wants to be treated like a person no matter what it is, and I think that's that's something that I recognize with her. It didn't matter if it person was extremely low functioning or high functioning, they got treated like a person and they appreciated that to an extreme level. Because you, I think I'm not speaking from my experience personally, I have feelings towards this. When people are confronted with a situation like that where say you run into somebody and they say, well, oh, I have autism or whatever it is something you're not, might not be familiar with.

17:13 It can be very easy to kind of like what Alexander was saying, like kind of lock down or pretend like, oh, OK, we're just going to skirt around that conversation. And I think majority of the times those people don't want that. It feels like they're being kind of pushed aside or they're different or they're not a part of something. So I think the biggest thing is greeting them like you would any other person and not screw around the fact like, yeah, all right, so let's talk about that. Let's talk about the conversation. Let's have the conversation. Let's still address whatever we're going to address. It doesn't change the conversation that's happening. I think that's huge. But again, this is I I don't have the the personal first hand experience. I've just seen it a lot and hear my wife talk about it a lot that it does bring up some some feelings for me. Now my question and something that you kind of alluded to at the beginning here, Jonathan or Jonathan Dominic, I've seen on social media where people will use like abbreviations or they'll change the words and things like that. And my thought was that those were being used as a way to not get their content limited or shadow band or muted on the channels.

18:30 Because I do know that everything's being kind of moderated to an extent. And I think that can throw some confusion into the mix as well, because you hear people on social media using different terms and phrases and not calling it for what it is, but it's a way to actually get the content out there to actually share the stories and talk about it. But to someone not understanding that, they might see it as kind of skirting around the issue and not wanting to come out and say it. So I guess it's it's not as much of a question, it's kind of a question, but more of a like how do you go about addressing that? Yeah, you know, it's, it's interesting and I and I thank you for that question, Jonathan and Alexandra, I do see.

19:14 So give me just a second here if you don't mind me addressing this. So in the three years that I worked at the Meadows and the range of topics that we talked about and the language that were used in those conversations, even now, to be fair, this didn't go on social media, right? Many of many of those words or buzzwords that you're talking about didn't go on social media. So that might be the caveat here, right? But in the three years that we had those conversations about dying by suicide, sexual assault, things of that nature, I never had any content taken down, not one time. Right now, I don't know if that's because of it's podcasting. I don't know.

19:57 That's because we weren't doing Joe Rogan numbers. I don't know if whatever, right? But what I will say is as we go into this next chapter, mental health, we've written, I'm going to keep that same energy to kind of quote Alexandra's mom's T-shirt, if you will. I'm going to keep that same energy because again, I definitely understand about like. To your point, like making sure you know the content is didn't get taken down, so you use those clever like SA or something like that. I definitely understand that because you want the information out there and ultimately that's what's important. But sometimes just as important is to call it for what it is, right? And not skating around that.

20:41 So and listen, we are all content creators here in this room, right? And I'm not here to tell you what is right or wrong for your strategy, what you're trying to do this, that and the other. I just know for Dominic and Dominic's goals and what he's trying to do with, with his show and his content and mental health be written, he's trying to save lives. So if you take the content down and, and, and so be it, that's just a casualty of war. That's just going to have to be what it is, right? I'm going to call it for what it is because that is how in my working with, you know, therapist and clinicians, they called for what it is with a sense of honesty, with a sense of integrity and all those things, right?

21:23 And that is, again, that is not to shun anybody or to put down anybody who use those strategies. Nick, let's be very clear. I just know that's not what Dominic's mission is. And so I'm going to to do that, but also you're going to have those triggers, you're going to put those disclaimers in like, hey, this conversation is going the episode when we when we have Dan on episode 3, right? Like best believe there's going to multiple disclaimers and things of that nature because that is a very touchy subject, if you will. So I just want to address what Nick was saying. I think Jonathan and Alexander had to say something. Let's go to Jonathan. Go ahead, man. And I just wanted to say just because there are other people listening and I want to be very clear that autism is a neurological developmental condition. And in and of itself, autism is not a mental illness. It's but individuals who have autism or on the autism spectrum do have increased risk of mental illness. So I just wanted to say that so anybody didn't trigger anybody and they're aware of that.

22:24 Thank you, Jonathan. I appreciate that. Go ahead, Alexandria. Alexandra, I'm sorry. Well, first of all, to answer, Nick, this is in my opinion, like you said, Dominic, you just did. That's what trigger warnings before. Like I'll put it out there, I like dark romance. But one of the things that I appreciate about the authors that write it, that I read is in the book blurbs, they always have the trigger warnings. And then also when you download the book, the trigger warnings are like the second or third page after copyright so that you have the warning. You've been warned multiple times in multiple locations if you don't want to go forward with the book. So trigger warnings in my opinion, on your content when you're on, whether it's a video or a podcast episode, if you put the trigger warnings in the episode description and then you put it at the top of the episode and then I guess commercial breaks when you come back from the breaks or whatever, it's like we're about to dive into this subject.

23:22 So it if proceed with proceed at your own. I don't proceed at your own risk kind of thing. But I will also say not to change this, but because I can't remember what it was that Jonathan was saying. It's a nick. But there's just like there's a flip side to everything. Having a mental disorder or neurological developmental disorder does not give you the right to be a Jackass either because there are people who will use it as a justification. If somebody doesn't want is trying to get on the subject, 'cause they're trying to be, they're trying to be sensitive and they will be a joke about it. And they're like, well, why don't you just say that? And I'm like, they're trying to be sensitive. Maybe they're coming by the wrong way, but you don't have to be a Dick about it either.

24:08 So I did just want to call that out too, because I will say I've been a victim of sometimes using my mental or emotional state to excuse things that I've done. That's not fair. I've recognized that. That's been a very big bone of contention between me and my mom because it's part of why she and I don't hear each other because she has what's called high functioning depression, which is you don't. It doesn't seem like she's depressed because she's always, she doesn't have the typical symptoms that people see, but she is depressed. She just fine, but she has the ability to push through and that's something that she does all the time and she pushes through too much.

24:48 I don't push through enough and neither of us know how to get to a happy medium. Thank you. For sharing that and I'm glad you brought that up because one of the things I've learned, you know, over the years, even before I got into mental health and behavioral health work was that like depression doesn't look like the same for everybody else just like grief doesn't look the same for every single person, right. You know, because one of the things I, I, I have seen and just studying the entertainment land space landscape that like comedians, you know, often have some of the highest, you know, degrees of depression as they're making us laugh, right? You know, that's why they tell you to check on your strong friends, right?

25:30 So definitely appreciate you sharing that, Alexandra. And it's kind of leads me to the next question as relates to when we were talking about trigger warnings and disclaimers and, and things of that nature. Because sometimes when we talk about these have these conversations, these conversations can get really heavy, right? And they can definitely get heavy for your listeners. So I'm curious question to the floor is when you do talk about these, these topics and these conversations and these taboo things, if you will, how do you approach community care when producing this heavy content? Because again, as you're crafting this community as podcasters, you have this community is not just a podcast, maybe it's the newsletter, maybe it's the blog. So I'm curious to the floor, how do you curate that comfort and that care when it comes to the community? And before anybody answers that, I want to make sure I shout out Amanda, yo, Amanda yo, a two time communicator winner yesterday.

26:27 You must have heard us talking about you, Amanda, yesterday. She's in the audience now, so I want to make sure I shout her out there. So kudos to you, Amanda. You do fantabulous work and it clearly shows. So kudos to you on your, I believe I remember correctly, your award of excellence and your award of distinction yesterday. And that's clearly, it may be time for you to get a new trophy case, if you will, if you're going to be stacking up these communicator awards as it relates to talking about your wins from last year. So just want to make sure I shouted her out. But yes, as you have these tough conversations and, and introduced them to your community, how do you, how do you introduce community care to your audience? If you don't mind? Go ahead for it, Dan.

27:08 Go for it, Dan. Hey, thank you, Dominic. I think it's a good question. I want to clarify that these are not topics that I would typically discuss on my own shows. However, that said, from a community care aspect, my my best advice if I can offer that would be, you know, whatever the topic is that's being discussed or addressed in your content, but offering direct care resources or steps that people can take to receive support is one way to address the community care perspective. No, I appreciate that, Dan. Thank you so much.

27:49 Any anybody else wants to kind of chime in here? If not, that's OK. I understand. Go ahead, Dr. OK, Dr. then Alexandra, go ahead. OK, so one of my clients is a retired pediatrician, and she did last year, she did an episode on palliative care. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. It's basically Hospice. But since she's a pediatrician, this would be Hospice for children. And trying to get through that episode, trying to edit that episode was just beyond me. I had to stop several times during the session even there's parts where the mother is talking about how the nurse came in to to feed the baby and she turned in to the nurse and said please let me let me do that with all these tubes and everything all around.

28:54 Let me do that because it's this is the only chance I have to actually feed my own child. So it was tough. I'm I am not a mother. And it just got to the core of me and I had to leave the house. I had to get out. So I wound up going to Starbucks in the middle of our Target here in Nashville. And I was just sitting there kind of reverberating from this session, this edit session that I was in and and this woman, because it's a very tiny, tiny place, so everyone is just shares tables and chairs and everything. And so this woman was sharing a table with me. And she kind of looked the same way I did. And she said, tough day, huh?

29:45 And I said, oh, man, you don't know. And she said, yeah, me too. And I told her what I did. And I told her that I was editing this show about children who are dying and palliative care. And she looked at me and she said, oh, my God. She says, this is the only time. She says I have heard the word palliative care twice in one day. Now. She says, I've never heard the word before. And now I've heard it twice in one day. She says, my husband's son, who is 12 years old, he is in palliative care right now. And we just sat there and kind of with these silent tears running down our face and she reached over and grabbed my hand and I grabbed her hand and it was just, we didn't even have to say anything. We just kind of was there for each other. It was just wild.

30:40 I so much appreciate you sharing that, Dr. because I think that this is the piece that I don't think we talked about enough when it comes to behavioral health and mental health podcasting, if you will, Because it's one thing to do like an episode, if you will, but if like your entire episode or your entire show is about this thing, that is something that is a continuous thing. Is that self-care piece after you have this experience with an interviewee, right? And I think it also it's important to highlight the self-care part on the host to do that. For me, that looks like PlayStation clinical hours, right? For somebody else, it could be Starbucks, for somebody else, it could be something ink.

31:23 But I think it's important to like when we have these tough conversations in these, you know, in these these things, if you will, it's definitely important to have that self-care in place, especially. And I don't know and they are clearly we are in the same frequency when it comes to this, especially and probably many people as well, especially when it relates to children, right? And if there's some type of vulnerability when it comes to children, it just it just hits different as the young kids say it hits different, right? And so I think it's important to have those self-care items and strategies and culture building in place when we're tackling these topics, if you will. So I definitely appreciate that.

32:08 Go ahead, Dr. It was just amazing how these two individuals who don't know each other, who met in this tiny little Starbucks in the middle of Target, that were the same exact thing was going on in their head. For her, it was her stepchild. For me, it was just something that I was editing, but it was still a child who was dying that touched us in some way. And it was just amazing to me how two random people would come together in a random place and have this thing that they're sharing.

32:57 I think that's just the power of the human experience. Call it kismet, call this some type of higher divine intervention or whatever. I think oftentimes part of the human experience is knowing that when somebody is kind of hurting and that empathy just kind of shows up, if you will, right at the at the perfect moment, at the perfect time, right. So thank you for for sharing that, Dr. really appreciate that. Go ahead, Alexandra. So first I was saying always list the available resources that are related to whatever the topic is. But I will say for me, my mom, there's several signs when I'm in a spiral that she can't see. One is I get very, very irritated very, very easily for no reason.

33:44 Like things that normally don't bother me irritate. I am a feeling person, but I'm not a feeling. I like to internalize stuff a lot. So when I'm like crying or I'm like clinging to her, that's another big sign. So having someone that can recognize the Santa doesn't have to be for me, it's my mom because she's my mom. I'm her child. She knows me better than anyone, but having someone who can recognize whatever it is you're struggling with when it's when you're having a down time or down period, they're like, OK, this is the pattern of when let's say Amanda is struggling with bipolar disorder because, and, but again, like you said, bipolar disorder doesn't look the same for everybody, just like depression doesn't. So being able to recognize the signs of when she's having a manic moment versus a depression moment and knowing what helps. I can't remember.

34:40 I think it was this past Survivor season, people were talking about a girl who had autism on the show. She was autistic and one of her original teammates was an older gentleman who was a father. She felt a camaraderie ship with him. And so in a moment of vulnerability, like at the beginning, she told him, I'm autistic and there are times when I get over stimulated and overwhelmed. This is what I need if this happens. And so at some point, I guess they got put on separate teams and they were doing a challenge. It was an immunity challenge. And you could you could see even from someone, even if you had never seen any other clips of the show, you could tell something wasn't something was happening with this girl. You could tell something wasn't right because when the challenge was over, she started having a very bad anxiety, a panic attack.

35:34 And her teammate that she had talked to, you could see that he was like he was struggling not to go over to her because they were on separate teams at that point. But you could see in his eyes, he's like, I want to go to her, but I can't. And she needs me, but I can't go over there because we're not on the same team anymore. So the host, I think his name is Jeff. I don't know. I don't watch the show, but the host says to the guys, like, do you want to go over there? You didn't have to ask the guy twice. Like, I don't think Jeff even finished saying the question and he headed over there. He was like, because she's like, I need somebody to squeeze my hands really hard to ground me back. And so that's what he did for her. And then after that, he asked her. And she was like, I'm at a place now I feel comfortable sharing with the rest of the the class, I guess. And she told them what was going on. And it was actually said that it was funny because she's the first person in the history of the show to ever make the host cry.

36:32 But it says something that even the host could tell that something was going on and she needed help. And he knew that her teammate, that her former teammate could help. And so at that point it became about humanity and not about winning a game. Thank you, Alexandra. I appreciate that. And Amanda, I know you had your hand raised. Give me just a second. I want to respond to this if I could. I think that's also I the importance of identifying your person and, and knowing who can be there for you when you know you're having these challenges, right? But I think also two things, and I think this is to I can't remember who said they might have been you, Alexandra, that person doesn't know.

37:13 Also your person also is there to call you out on stuff, right? Like the person is not there just to be for there for you when you need them. They're also there to kind of call you out on stuff like, hey, I think you kind of take advantage of the situation you got going on, right? So I think that's definitely the power of having a person and the duality of that person's role, but also understand to check in on that person who you identified as your person, right? Because they are kind of, you know, being the strong one for you. So sometimes you need to pour back into that cup as you take a sip from it. Go ahead, Amanda. One Alexandra, I did see that clip on TikTok and it was such a beautiful moment, such a beautiful moment. I think so many people could have learned from that.

37:53 So thank you for bringing that up. And to Alexander's point, like my husband is my person when it comes to that. What you said earlier, sometimes the strongest people need to be checked on as well. And I am one of those very, very, very strong people. But he gets to like that's in front of the world. He gets to see the me behind the scenes that sometimes has those very weak moments, or he can see the weight of the world on my shoulders that sometimes I worry about things that there's nothing I can do about it or it's just not for me to worry about. But I try to be a helper in all things. And so with him be in my like my person, he we have these little things that we say to each other to kind of like snap each other out of that moment and like a fun and loving way. So if he ever sees me getting a little too deep with worry or whatever the case may be, he'll look at me and go, Amanda, just think about bread.

38:49 And I love baking bread and it pulls me into like the happy thoughts of things. And it, it's his way of gently guiding me out of going the wrong direction back into the right direction. So he'll let me wander a little bit, but then he'll look at me. He's like, think a bro, think a bro. And just it's, it's a funner way of saying snap out of it. And then for him, if he does something silly or if he's just acting a little different, I'll say, are you going through something? And I the way I say it is, is a little funny and it kind of snaps us both out of it and makes us giggle. So once maybe what would have caused an argument between the two of us years and years ago that's kind of like our checking moment of each other to help us like gently guide us into a more optimistic path instead of going down the wrong 1.

39:41 So you do got to have those people that that pull you out of any kind of darker moments. I love that. Give me just a second, Alexandra, and see if I may. I want to ask Amanda a follow up question if I could, because having your person as you know, your spouse definitely is a different dichotomy than like maybe a best friend or something like that. So I'm curious. Amanda, do you talk about those moments with your husband when neither one of you are in the throes of like, a bad moment, if you will? Right, Because you're, what you're sharing with me reminds me of Brené Brown and her husband and the percentage kind of doctrine they have where it's like, listen, I'm having a rough day today.

40:27 I can only give you 20% today. That's all I got. Like I'm going to give you a strong 20%, but 20% is all I got. So I'm curious, when you're not in the throes of having a moment, do you have those conversations about like when I'm in, when I'm in this moment, this is kind of what I need. Does that question make sense? It really does. And while we don't communicate like percentage wise, we have this open communication where like when I hit the wall where I can't do anymore, he, he will say to me, OK, it's my turn to tap in because I tend to want to like carry the household, carry the the worry, carry the burden and he'll like tap in and vice versa. So we kind of have like this tap in method of like when I'm at my weakest, that's when he's going to be his strongest and vice versa. And that seems that again, is something that's probably been going on the last five years or so. So these are newer things.

41:18 But it's after years of marriage and years of being open to me being able to say I'm weak in this moment where 10 years ago, I don't even know if I could have said that, Dominic, if I'm being truthful. But age has said like I don't have to be strong every single second. Certainly when I have such a good support next to me that can carry some of the load for me and life doesn't have to be so hard. So yeah, we don't like kind of say I can only give you 20%, but there are days that I'm like, I, I can't do anything more than what I'm already doing. And that's when he takes that load from me. And it's so wonderful one. 100% Thank you for sharing that, Amanda. See it then Alexandra, if we could. So thank you, Dominic.

42:00 There's a couple of things here. First off, I think that, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but one of the potential, I don't call it a side effect or mental health related issues is the fact that not everybody has that person that Amanda just described. And I think it's great that Amanda has that person and that Alexander has that person, but not everybody has that because I think loneliness is a huge aspect of mental health, right? And it's my opinion. I could be wrong, but you know, I believe that loneliness is a big aspect of that. So what I would say to that is each and every one of us have the opportunity every day to be that person in the way that we show up, right?

42:46 And with our mindset of not trying to fix someone, but trying to support someone. And I think that we can say things when we see this happening. Very similar to the example that Dr. gave is how can I support you, not how can I help you or what can I do through. I think it's the question of how can I support you? Because a person in that situation, again, this is my opinion, doesn't need to be fixed. They just need to be heard. And sometimes all you need to do is say how can I support you? And they might say something along the lines of can you listen to me or can I tell you my story, right? Because not everybody has a person they can go to. So I have something else I want to say, but I'll, I'll stop there for a moment, Dominic, and let you. No, really.

43:32 No, I understand exactly what you're saying, that isolation, what we know in the behavioral health community is that isolation often fuels addiction. Isolation often fuels these negative thoughts, right? Because there's nobody around to whether it be be your person or honestly, to be fair to what Alexander's point earlier is to kind of check your like, Hey, listen, you doing the most right now, Like, you know, kind of cool it if you, but no, you're, you're absolutely right. And I think what you share is super important every single day. I believe that's just me. Every single day we have the opportunity to show up for somebody. And it doesn't have to be this large grandiose idea of like whatever, right?

44:14 Like, hey, you good? No, I don't. No, no, no, no, no, not the certain night now. OK, we did. We got the first coat off of what you're having to feel. No, no, are you good? Right. And I think we all have that opportunity every single day to do that and show up for someone, right? Because again, when we talk about these challenges in these mental health challenges, right, you know, you just never know unless we ask. And honestly, that is why we created mental health. We've written is to fight through that isolation for maybe somebody who doesn't have somebody to show up for them, who doesn't have somebody to be like, hey, are you good? You know, through the form of a podcast, that is how I choose to show up for people, right? Because it means so much to me when person says, hey, I listen to the show and it doesn't even have to be mental health ridden. It can be, it can be Mel Robbins, it can be Brené Brown. It could be even some of the shows I did at the meadows, like hey, I listed this episode because I felt like I was the only one going through this thing, right? I listed this episode, there was some similarities. I want to talk to somebody.

45:24 I went to a a meeting, I went to group. So showing up every day like that. We have that opportunity, each and every one of us has that opportunity to show up every single day to do that for somebody and say, before I go back to you and just say this to the room, I just want to say thank you for everybody for showing up for this conversation. Listen, I know this is not the typical type of conversation we have on podcast in morning chat as it relates to growing your podcast and using that nature. But I think there are times where we need to have these conversations as podcasts because I think there's so much responsibility that comes with that microphone. And I think we have that responsibility. We have an opportunity to be that person and we have an opportunity to make sure we are not causing undue harm. So I appreciate everybody who showed up for this conversation, even though it's made me not the typical type of podcasting morning chat conversation that we have. Go ahead and see if you said there's something else you wanted to say.

46:20 And I want to get back to Alexandra. So Dominic, you just said something that I think is also very important, which is there, whether you believe it or not, there's a lot of responsibility that comes when you grab that microphone and hit record, right? And what you say and what you put out into the world. And I actually recorded an episode 2 days ago about a little bit of a little bit about this, about be the light for somebody. Like show up for somebody, be the light for somebody. You never know what people are going through, right? And I Remember Me doing what we do. And being entrepreneurs is by far one of the hardest things that anybody can do, right?

47:01 I mean, it's just like craziness. And I always choose joy first, right? I lead with joy. I try to make a positive impact to people's lives. But I'm also one of those strong people that I'm going to hide how I'm feeling and fully admit it. I'm going to hide from you that I'm having a bad day, right? Or that mentally I'm in a really bad place. And I remember a few years ago, it was actually 2018 and I was working in a Co working space. I had an office and we've been working for months on this project. And we turned in our final proposal and a few days later we got an e-mail that said thanks but no thanks. We decided not to move forward.

47:49 I was devastated like I was. I was literally cashing the checks before the guy ever said yes because everything was there, everything was aligned, all the buying signals were aligned, everything was there, and they said no. And then when I ask a follow up question, which was something very similar, completely understand that you choosing not to move forward this time. As you know, we're a small and a young business. I would appreciate any feedback that you could give us that could help us improve. It's a great question to ask, right? And I got ghosted and it sent me into this downward spiral that I'd never experienced before in my life, didn't know how to handle it, didn't know what to do. And so I would get up every morning and I would this this lasted for three days. I got to get up and get dressed.

48:35 I'd go to the office. I'd go in office and put my bag down. I would turn the light off and I would lay on the floor. I just lay there deep in my thought, asking myself all these questions like, what am I doing? Who am I to think that I can be a consultant? Why am I doing this? Like this is not worth it. And that lasted for three days. And to to this day, I don't know that my wife even knows the story right, because I didn't tell anybody and I was keeping it in side, which is the wrong thing to do, right, to internalize it. But I learned some really valuable lessons from that. And one day I was laying there listening to a podcast and I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the podcast I was listening to. And which is really strange because I remember every detail about this story, almost what I was wearing, right? And I remember asking myself, what the hell are you doing, dude?

49:32 Like, what are you doing? And I got up and I realized that bad things happen, and you can't always control the outcome, but bad things are going to happen. And so I came up with four questions to ask myself. And I've shared this a lot because it was such a powerful lesson for me that we have to understand bad things are going to happen in our life and in our business. And this is where we get the gift to choose how we're going to respond to it. And that was a game changer for me. Like I could understand that I get to choose how I'm going to respond to this. And so I can't. I wrote him down and I talked about it all the time. I wrote down 4 questions and you know, my 4 questions were very businesslike but also very simple, which was what went right in the situation, acknowledging what I did good in this process. The second one was what went wrong, not what went bad, but what went wrong.

50:29 Like what went wrong in this process. The third one is what did I learn right? What did I learn from this? Because I needed, I need to take lessons away from this. And there were tons of lessons from that very example. And the fourth one, which is the one that really got me motivated was what am I going to do differently the next time? I got to put on my big boy pants. I got to brush them off because I got knocked down. I'm not out. I got knocked down. And what am I going to do differently the next time? Because I got a mission and I need to get up and I need to go and I have people's lives that I need to impact and I need to help and support. And it took me 3 days of laying down in the dark to understand that. So my message there is we get to, we get to control some of this, right?

51:20 I also think my message is that even, and this has been echoed a lot, even the strong, the appear, those that UPS that appear to be strong have moments when we need to be supported 1000% Sid. And I am so grateful and honored that you share that. I listen to to the to the room, to the the podcast people listen to replay on the podcast. I think Sid is a very great business mind, right from the things he shares on LinkedIn, things he's shared behind the scene that we've seen when we did the first Empower podcasting conference. I think Sid is a very great business mind and I think many people share that sentiment.

52:05 But I also believe that like with that being said, I don't think we've ever would have known said to be in a moment like that. I don't think so. And I think this is important to share our stories even when we're interviewing somebody to share, put a piece of ourselves into the content because people need to see that. People need to hear that. People need to understand that, like all, OK, Sid, who is this great business person, this great business mind is going through this, Then clearly what I'm feeling isn't exclusive to me. It isn't just me. This isn't just happening to me. This is just the nature of business.

52:46 And one of the things you also said, Sid, before I go to Alexander and then Jonathan, and then we're going to start to kind of wrap up here is one of the things I learned personally in therapy. What you share with those four questions is to put your thoughts on trial, right? When you have those moments of imposter syndrome or whatever it is that you want to call it, to put those thoughts on trial. Yeah, that did happen. But also this. Yeah. Did that really happen the way I think it happened? Maybe it did, maybe it did not. Maybe that's just my perception because I'm in my feelings right now. So I love those four questions that you share. And then reminded me of what my therapist told me is to put your thoughts on trial. Alexandra and then Jonathan. I wanna say first of all, I love what Sid said, but I was going back to what Amanda said about how her husband and you were talking about the the percentage and she was saying I just don't have it today.

53:42 I will text my mom when I'm having a moment. I'm just like, mom, the horses are out of the barn. I need help because horses have always been like my thing from like when I was in therapy when I was younger, whenever I needed, I was getting to worked up, my mom would rub my nose like you would stroke a horse's snout. She would start stroking my nose like that. And so I just kind of took it and ran with it. So there's like Bob, the horses are out of stable. I need help. But I also I'm starting to recognize that there are times that she can't support me because she is in the middle of her stuff too. And so that is what I turned to my other my other very special kind of her, my dog Samson. He is the most beautiful, amazing man in the world, even though he is, even though he has four legs and a tail, because I've never heard of emotional support animal before. I got Sampson, my primary care physician at the time. He's since retired.

54:45 I was times like, I don't know what else to do. And he was like getting emotional support and was like, what is that? And was like, well, how do I do that? He's like, well, you know what? I'm gonna write you a prescription. Go take it to your local animal shelter. And usually if you have those, they will waive the adoption fee. And he was right. And so I adopted Samson. And then my sister makes a joke all the time that I, I'm the only person in the world who has an emotional support animal that needs emotional support because he has separation anxiety. But there's something that just releases dopamine in my system when I have gone somewhere and I come back and this dog does zoomies because I'm because I'm home. But there's also something so calming and relaxing to my mental state.

55:34 When he is, he will get under the covers and lay next to me and my mind shuts up. And so he's getting older and now I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do when that time comes. Because unfortunately, I have to start thinking about that because I've become so attached to him. So that's when we're talking about people. It's what do we do when we become overly attached to our people? Is there a way to find that balance so that you're not, you don't go into dependent territory, but obviously we don't have time for that, but. No, I, I, I appreciate you, you sharing all of that. It's definitely one of those things where when you do talk, you know, one things I've learned in this space, and when you do talk to a therapist or clinician where they give you those modalities and those those exercises, if you will, whether it be breathing, whether it be put your thoughts on trial or whatever.

56:22 To start to kind of take away that dependency from your person. Not saying that you're just completely sever yourself from your person, but you start to do those self regulating activities, if you will. Also, if I may say before we go to Jonathan and start to really wrap this up here, that the horses that have left the barn is such a beautiful metaphor. And I hope you don't take that to light like me taking that light. It's a beautiful metaphor for what you are sharing with your mom in those moments. So I just want to make sure I acknowledge that. Thank you for sharing it, Jonathan, please share what you want to share. And also if you want, you know, kind of wrap up, you know your final thoughts and I'll go behind you after that.

57:04 No problem. So Alexandra, I want to let you know that my emotional support dog needs emotional support as well. So you can tell your sister that. Sid, I think one of the most important things that you did today was share that story. Just like Dr. shared a story. Because every time we share stories, we don't know who's out there that needs to hear that. We don't know what other business owners are going through something that needed to hear what you went through or parents are going through something that needed to hear what Dr. said. So I think that sharing those stories is so powerful and so important. And thank you for being vulnerable and doing that. Dominic, thank you for running this room today.

57:44 Great conversation and a very, very important topic. So I appreciate that and I'll send it back to you. I appreciate that, Jonathan, thank you so much for for sharing that. I thought it was an important one and thank you for the room for allowing me to kind of share space with you and to have this conversation again. I know it's not the growth type of, you know, grow your podcast type of conversation, but I think it's growth in the sense of like the quality and the responsibility of habit of being a podcaster, the a responsibility that comes with the microphone. And so listen, as we move forward and mental health awareness month and all the things, please do not be afraid to have these conversations tackle these topics because there's somebody out there just like much like Sid's very great example, along with DRS as well and everybody else who has shared people need to hear these stories. I don't care if you've told that story 1000 times. I don't care if you've told that story one time and, and you feel like nobody wants to hear that.

58:45 They somebody probably does need to hear it. And that's just keeping it 100 with you. Somebody definitely needs to hear it. And so as we wrap up this room, I just want to say thank you to the moderators, Ashley, Dan, definitely Dan for running the ones and twos here. Dr. Jonathan see it and Amanda now. So Alexandra, thank you so much for sharing all of that. Please be sure to check in tomorrow as we talked about your signature podcasting style. I think that's going to be a great conversation for this room as we get back to I guess I read schedule programming and, and Mark, if you're out there still gallivanting in Madrid or Lisbon or whatever it is you doing, hope you're having a a great time And hopefully we didn't run the train off the rail.

59:25 So we'll be back tomorrow, 7:00 AM Eastern Time, 6:00 Central time. And thank you so much for having us have this conversation. And as always, it's Mark will leave us. Have a great day every day. Oh no, make it a great everybody. Take care.