439. Ads Are Coming to AI- Here’s What They’ll Never Tell You

0:04 Good morning podcasting Morning chat. Today is Wednesday, January 21st, 2026 and today it's news and comment day. So the network, the Netflix podcast story keeps evolving. Podcasting's place at South by Southwest and AI gets a much needed reality check. So if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, bottom left hand side of the screen and share it. However, Clubhouse lets you. And if you're catching us via podcast, YouTube, LinkedIn, please share this with a fellow podcaster. And now give us about 30 seconds and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here.

1:20 Good morning again, podcasting, Morning chat. Thanks so much for being here. I am your host Mark Ronick, and currently on stage with me we have Matt Bliss, Jonathan Howard, Ralph Estep, producer Ashley Feller, Dr. Faye, Sid Meadows, Alex Baelish and Nick and all back. And let me say if you haven't or let me say it like this, if you're curious about all those names that I shared, I realized that I don't share enough about the team. So if you're new here, you may just look at or listen to this and say, huh, OK, you got a lot of people on stage who, who are all these people? Go to podcastingmorningchat.com. Actually do it like this, podpage.com/PMC/about, and I'm checking that because I realize I didn't check that to be sure, but if you go there, you can go to our about page.

2:14 Yeah, I was, yeah. PMC. Yes. Go to our about page and you'll learn about each and every one of these fine podcasters. You'll see everyone listed there. You'll see a little bio, you'll see how to get in touch with them. So go to againpodpage.com/PMC/about to learn more about these fine people. So today we are going to get into all the headlines around the world of podcasting. Looking forward to digging in. And I guess we should just go ahead and do that. So the way we like to start podcast news and by the way, welcome to Tide, who has joined us here on stage as well from the audience.

3:03 The audience is more than welcome to come join us and be a part of this conversation as well. So don't be shy. If you want to come up here, comment on some of these stories, by all means, you are more than welcome to do that. And that goes for any of you watching live on the other platforms like YouTube, etcetera. So some podcast data for you to kick things off. This is as of today. Over the past week, 198,156 podcasts published at least one new episode which is up 3.3% and over the last 30 days 328,121 podcasts were updated and that is down 7%.

3:50 Why do I share this with you? Because I think that puts the numbers in perspective a bit. A lot of times we see that there are, I know that number kind of changes here and there, but let's say 3 to 4 million podcasts out there. And some people say, whoa, that I'm not, I'm not going to do a podcast 'cause there are too many out there. Well, the reality is, is not nearly as many of them of those podcasts are actually publishing new episodes. And by the way, 3 to 4 million isn't a lot when you think about, also think places like YouTube and the millions and millions of channels that are there and active. OK, let's also, since we're in the data category, let's talk about the top fives. Dr. You want to share the Spotify and Apple top fives? #5 The Tucker Carlson show number 4, the Crime jungie #3 the past weekend with Theo von #2, good hang with Amy Poehler and #1 The Joe Rogan Experience.

4:57 And we're doing a top five for Apple these days because the number one has continued to be the same show. And we figure instead of just saying the same shows over and over again, we'll give you a top five for Apple as well. So go for it. #5 is dateline #4 is the Joe Rogan experience #3 is a good hang with Amy Poehler. Oh wait a little bit. OK, number 2 is crime jumpy and the number one is the daily. There it is, Yes, the daily holding that top spot for weeks and weeks and weeks, if not months at this point.

5:39 You know what I think I heard that The Daily will now be doing a a Sunday show. I think I read Oh. Really. Did anyone else read that? Am I the only one? OK, we'll check on that. And Ashley, you might have to get. That that's OK if we're wrong. If we're right, we'll put it in the show notes. If we're wrong, we won't say anything at all. And some events for people to keep an eye on. And as I've shared in the recent past, we're not going to go through long lists of events anymore just to try to keep this as Evergreen as possible. Of course, on Newsday, the news stories won't allow this show to be super Evergreen, But still, we're just going to try to only focus on some of the major things that we think are important to our audience. And Dr. has one that she's a part of that she's going to share for us right now.

6:32 Hey, Are you ready to boost your network game and meet like minded professionals in an engaging event? A virtual event designed for creators like you to connect, collaborate and expand your professional networking. So we're talking to you, authors to all of you, speakers to all of you, podcasters and subject matters experts. When It's weekly on Thursday, every single Thursday, and it would be at 4:00 PM Eastern Time, 1:00 PM Pacific Time time. And if you use PMC as a discount code, you get in for free. I am there almost every week, but I go there to try and find guests for my clients and I have been very successful in that.

7:18 So yeah, come on by. And if you are coming by from this from this podcast, let me know. Awesome. What's it called? It's called the Podcasters directory.com. That's where you can find the info and thank you DRA. Quick heads up, just sticking with events for a minute from yesterday's Pod Fest recap here on the Podcasting morning chat, Jason Zircon of the Empowered Podcasting Conference team shared about a short window ticket deal for the August event. Right now tickets are sitting just under $200.00. Of course, you have to use a coupon code and this is the lowest public price before things go up later. If you're thinking about going, the promo code is Pod Fest 26. This was a special we ran from this past Pod Fest and it's basically an early access for anyone who doesn't want to wait and pay more later.

8:21 So again, that's Pod Fest 26. Go to empoweredpodcasting.com to save the most you can at this point until August 21st. That weekend, quick tip, smart move. Yeah, content creators, business. Take it away, Ralph. Well, good morning everybody, and we got a quick business news that matters to every crater. So listen up to this one. Open AI says it's planned to start testing ads. You heard me right, ads inside a ChatGPT. Now, this is going to happen in the US, not going to happen everywhere, and it's not going to be for everyone. But in the coming weeks for logged in adults on their free tier and their go tier.

9:04 Here's the important part. The ads are expected to show up at the bottom of answers, and Open AI says they'll be clearly labeled. They're going to be separated from the main response and tied only to the current conversations, with options to learn why you're seeing it or actually dismiss it. Now, what's the business story here? This is the moment where AI stops being just a tool and starts becoming a new advertising platform. We're like Google search, but little more conversational. And if you're a podcaster or a creator, this changes the game completely. Because when people ask GPT what mic should I buy or what hosting should I use, or what's the best editing workflow, these answers might start coming with a paid placement sitting right underneath. Well, to me, that's an opportunity, but it's also a risk.

9:49 It's an opportunity because it's new ad inventory and new discovery pathways, but I think it's also a risk because the audience can't make it frustrated if the line between helpful and sponsor gets blurry. So here's my question for everybody today. If Chad GBT becomes as supported, do you trust it more because it's transparent or less because money always leans the results? So let me know your take because this is going to affect every single digital business. Oh my God, let me in on this. Go ahead. Oh my God, I am so pissed about this. I'm so pissed. Why? Does anyone remember the old days of Google when you could put in a search word and results would come up in front of you? Yes, now you have to scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll all the sponsored stuff you have to scroll by.

10:44 And I knew it was coming to AII just wanted to cherish just a little bit more of the non scrolling thing. And I know he said it's at the bottom, but it's going to move to the top. I know it's going to move to the top and there's we're going to have another scroll fest trying to get to the meat of what we really want to find out. Yeah. And would like to Ralph's question, I think some people may be concerned the information that ChatGPT spits out is going to start to be sponsored. Sid had something as well. Let's go to Sid and then Nick, I'm curious about your take. This could have easily been an AI news story. So I want to hear from you as well, Nick, as one of our AI enthusiasts here at the PMC.

11:31 But first, Sid, go for it. Good morning. Ralph, does this article or wherever you found this say that the ad is going to be tied directly to the conversation that you're having or that it's going to promote products around the conversation or is it strictly just ads running? So it's are they connected or they not connected? No, actually what it said here, and this came from Fox Business, actually it said they're going to be connected to the chat. The particular question that you're asking Sid. So to me it's going to be directed like what Dr. said when Dr. was talking. I kept, I kept thinking and keep scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. It's supposed to be connected to the actual topic at hand, which I think makes it more interesting. I'm going to have to see this to before ioffer any opinion on it and I think I have the $20.00 a month pro. Is the pro going to see the ads too? I think it's called pro.

12:21 I know I pay $20.00 a month. Yeah, the $20.00 a month plan, yeah, I don't know. That's a good question because if we're paying for it. Ralph mentioned the two tiers. I just missed one of them, the free. It was the free tier and the go tier, so it doesn't say the pay tier. And I honestly I pay for ChatGPT. Also mine's more expensive than $20.00. But I don't know Sid. It looks like it's on the free and the go tier. I'm not sure what those tiers are. But that's what it says in the article. Yeah, the go tier is a newer paid tier that ChatGPT introduced recently and I believe, don't hold me to it, but I believe it's something like $9 a month for it. So they're just trying to offer a less expensive plan. But of course, that means it's also a little more limited than the free or paid plans. So those are the differences there. Now let's check in with Matt Bliss and then Nick, you're on deck.

13:12 Go ahead, Matt. As soon as you started talking about this and explaining it a little bit, I thought of Google straight away and I think we're going to follow the same process here too. They said ad free. They go back on that six months later. They create ads in the platform. They gather user data to figure out their preferences to direct ads appropriately. They create a ads platform for people to create campaigns to direct their ads on the platform to certain sub sects of people. The ad platform becomes big enough and prioritize information enough that it becomes an issue for the actual information versus what people pay to appear first in the platform. And then it goes to the EU for them to dissect what is the ad platform from the LLM because that becomes a monopoly just like what happened with Google only in the last couple of years or finalized in the last couple of years rather. So I can see that happening all the way through it. I think the only thing that they don't have is a way to pay for the kind of traffic and activity that Google has. They've had YouTube and Gmail, they collect data, they sell that data on, they provide it in their own ads management platform.

14:29 All that has been sustainable for them because they not only have that stuff to monetize having Google search be free, but also they were coming up in a time where data privacy wasn't really an issue, whereas it's an issue now. It's their next move really, but I wouldn't make any predictions if I were you because six months down the track something completely different could happen. Let's look at the business side of this. This is about money and their need for money. ChatGPT probably. I don't know this, but I'm going to assume that the majority of their users are free users. They've taken a lot of money from investor groups and other places to get this thing moving forward. And now they're trying to figure out how to get a return on this and what do they do, how they get revenue coming in Because I'm sure they're investors, especially if they're private equity or looking at revenue and profitability and things of that nature and running ads do they're free and they're low paid account is a way to offset the fact that those people don't pay. It also probably is an indicator that those of us that have like a $20 tier, we could expect a price increase to come from them.

15:35 It'd be interesting to know how many non paid members are using ChatGPT on a daily basis. But this is all about business and money and profitability likely being driven by their investors. Thank you, Sid. Nick, any comments? Any thoughts? I think Sid's spot on with his assessment, like it's a, it's a business money. Everyone could probably see the writing on the wall that ads were coming to AI. They just weren't at that. They're at the building phase, in the fun phase, like making it useful and getting everyone on board the adoption of the platform before bombarding it with ads. And I think we're finally getting. Closer to that, what I think is interesting, and I've seen this floating around different discussion boards and social media and things like that.

16:21 This ads conversation was discussed with Open AII pretty early on. And there are quotes and videos of Sam all been talking about this and saying that ads would be a last resort or open AI or ChatGPT and what they're doing. And I understand the business implications of running the ad. They need to make more money, but I think it could also be a signal of trouble for open AI right now because they aren't bringing in money like they're bringing in money, but they're not turning a profit and they're talking about not turning a profit until possibly beyond 20-30. And to Sid's point, there's a lot of investors that have put a lot of skin in this game that haven't seen a dime back.

17:08 So it could be trouble for open AI and that's why they're going to this resort. Or it could just be a step in the direction where they say, OK, we're ready. We're, we're basically mature enough to the point where we think that we can confidently run ads where we're not being intrusive to the user, but still making a profit off of it. And the first thing I thought of when I saw this is great. That means Gemini's going to be following suit. That means Claude's going to be following suit. All of these other platforms, if it works, are going to be jumping on the same bandwagon because all I see are dollar signs. Good points, Nick, and I think Ralph wanted to respond. Go ahead, Ralph. I just wanted to ask the group because as Nick was talking, the thing that occurred to me is I guess the other option to try to make money is to start, you know, grabbing all the data out of there and marketing from the data.

17:53 So what's worse, putting ads in it or actually mining that data and trying to sell stuff based on the data that's in there? And are they mining it to use your information? So either side of this has a scary component to it. Which one would we rather have ads put into us or somebody going in and managing that data, data mining it and selling it to advertise, to direct market to you? Well, it looks like you have several people that want to respond to that. Ralph. Let's check in with Jonathan since we haven't talked to him yet this morning. Good morning, Jonathan. I think with ads comes the data mining. Anyway, I think it's going to happen. I think we were in for both. Yeah, I think you may be right on that. Looks like everybody or a lot of people are agreeing with you. Nick, did you want to say anything else about that I. Think we're already kind of in the middle of that right now. If you look at a lot of these AI platforms, they're all introducing some sort of shopping feature, like where you can purchase within the platform and, you know, they're recommending products based on the information that they're gathering about people.

18:55 They're not just going to pick random stuff to throw at you. Open AI is gathering. I mean, Mark, you and I had this conversation when we were talking about, like, Claude and I was telling you, you need to try it out. And you're like, yeah, but. Check. GPT just. Understands me so well and it knows so much about me and I don't want to have to get another AI platform to that point. It would already be able to throw so many products and things at you just based on what it knows about you now. So I do think on the advertising perspective, we're going to see a lot more specially curated ads, which to a level that we haven't experienced before, even though it seems like it's Google's always listening because they probably are. But at the same time they they already have that.

19:37 They're already doing that. They're pushing products to you, whether you know it or not. It's a matter of how far is it going to go before the EU steps in and says wait a minute, this is a little extreme or how someone steps in. We're going to put up a poll here live on Clubhouse. We're curious, would you rather pay more for your AI tool? I think first I should say, you know, flash an emoji here. If you are using AI semi regularly to regularly to help you with your content creation. I'm curious and I'm curious, would you therefore pay more or see more ads? Because look, they are a business, like it or not, they do have to try to make money here.

20:22 I can't fault them for that. What would you rather do? Would you, let's say, instead of paying $20.00 a month like Sid's paying, would you pay 40? Would you pay 50 to not see ads and to keep things the way they are? Go ahead and place your vote. I'd probably pay more just because then it doesn't feel as it doesn't feel skewed. The data doesn't feel skewed. And yeah, and then I'm also not annoyed by a lot of ads. And it looks like right now it's about 58% say they would pay more. 43% says Nope, I would not pay more. Matt, what did you want to say? What you're saying is important, like for people, if they want to pay, to have their exposure reduced and compensate the company for what they do that they would otherwise do through ad revenue. Absolutely.

21:10 I think in the terms of AI, people are talking about AI bubbles at the moment. It's not a bubble, but that short term thinking about them making a quick bit of money is eventually going to turn into a long term where we start to exit the point where managing AIS and LLMS and the development stops being sustainable. Investors stop pumping money and it becomes cost prohibitive for anyone to have a large base of users like Open AI has. So I put a comment in the chat earlier where I said everybody should be learning how to add a local LLM like DeepSeek on their devices or create their own LLM powered machines to avoid Open AI taking their money local.

21:53 Stuff like this, it's hard to do, but that's going to be the next step after the cost Prohibition causes this to be way too expensive for 3rd party companies to start offering services like Cast Magic, like Riverside, and then to work directly with the companies themselves. It's going to be businesses that can pay for it and individuals won't be able to. And we're going to have to work backwards as individuals to be able to get access to what we found really efficient and convenient before. So I just want to flag that people should keep at the back of their minds, hey, I might not have easy access to an LLM in the personal capacity that I have right now within the next three to four years. Thank you, Matt.

22:39 And as a couple of people wanted to respond. So let's go to Ralph. Go ahead, Ralph, and then we'll go to Sid. Yeah. I just wanted to add one more thing as a professional. And if you do any kind of work with professionals where you're working with customers, here's what you need to understand in in the accounting lingo. We're really pushing this now. If you're putting any information into any of the AI models, it has names, addresses, any kind of personal information. You got to stop doing that. When Matt put that in there about building your own LOM in a closed model, you got to start thinking about that because if this data is getting mined, if you're putting queries in there about customers or about people, you got to accept that that information is probably in the public realm now. So for example, like I know my doctor's office is now using AI to do notes after a visit. And I asked her, I said, wait a minute, is that in an open model?

23:26 Oh, no, no, no, we're using a closed model. So understand the difference. And if you're putting stuff in an open AI model, know your data is out there for everybody to see it. Thank you, Ralph. My personal thought is eventually this is that's the direction everyone will go for for just that reason, for privacy reasons. I think more and more people, and eventually I think if AI continues to dominate, more and more people are going to use a local LLM, something on their own computer, on their own servers, not out there in the public. I think that's just going to be the natural progression of where we go with AI. Sid, did you want to respond? If you subscribe to Microsoft 360 and you have access to Microsoft Copilot, that is a local, as Matt described it, or a secure, secure AI that is powered by ChatGPT, that's what we're talking about.

24:23 I actually am recording a podcast episode with an AI expert on Thursday about this very topic about security and some policies for businesses to understand what they what they need to do. But what I think is actually really going to happen is you're going to see, because they'll probably be some type of revolt from the people about this. But I think the progress for this is if I look at the business model for ChatGPT, it's going to be a pay to play platform period. Just like Asher was talking about HBO. You can pay for a version with ads and a pay for a version without ads. You have to pay for streaming, you have to pay for this, you have to pay for that. It's going to get to a point where nobody can use ChatGPT for free.

25:07 You're going to have to pay something. And that's a way for them to continue to increase their revenue. I think Janae put in there they have 20 billion in revenue, but I think that's where it's headed is that you're going to, it's not going to be a free version of it. You're going to have to have a paid version of it. Thank you, Sid. Does anyone else want to make any comment on this before we move on to the next story? And I don't mind that this took a lot of time. I think this is an important topic. Yes, it's not specifically related to podcasting, but I think certainly it affects us as podcasters, the fact that we all are using it so much, or at least many of us are, I think that this is an important topic for us. So it sounds like no, nobody want, no one else wants to. So by the way, wanted to share that today. Yvonne's podcast has been released and her guest is really quite an amazing guest.

26:08 I actually was that guest on her podcast. I've just shared a link here. And Yvonne, you are welcome to come up if you want to say anything about this 'cause I feel a little weird promoting a show where I'm the guest, but I do want to also support you and support your show because I happen to really enjoy it. So yeah, do you want to share anything about today's new episode of your Late Bloomer Living? Thank you, Mark. That's awkward pushing your own stuff out there, isn't it? Yeah. I'm here for you, man. I'm here for you. So your episode this week is part of a series for the month of January that I'm doing about curiosity and playfulness and the tie between the two and what they can do for us. And I am so excited.

27:00 I am thrilled with the way our conversation turned out. Mark. I asked Mark what prompted him to put himself into the situation of taking improv for that first time, and what did it feel like the first time he went to do that, and how it has impacted his entire life and business since then. So what a juicy conversation it was, Mark. It was, it was a really fun conversation. I was excited for this one to come out. And by the way, I don't know if you did this on purpose or not, Yvonne, but the fact that it came out just a couple days after Pod Fest, I think that's perfect timing. Serendipity, Mark.

27:40 Serendipity. Well, thank you for having me on your show. Looking forward to hearing some feedback from everybody. Please go check that episode out. It is episode 257 and we will link to it in the show notes. Let's move on to some of our next topics. And thank you, Ralph for today's business Bite. As you predicted, you thought this would be a hearty conversation, and it was. But now let's go to some other headlines around the world of podcasting. It was a record year for Apple Services in 2025 and Apple Podcasts quietly had its biggest year ever in 2025. According to Apple and reporting from Pod News, the platform hit record highs for listeners, plays and subscribers right as it marked its 20th anniversary.

28:35 Apple rolled out meaningful creator friendly updates like automated chapters, timed links and dialogue enhancement, simplified the podcast submission process, and even showed up to speak at a podcast industry event last year that was Podcast Show in London. Side note, I am highly considering attending Podcast Show in London this May and despite all the competition, Apple Podcasts apparently still holds its spot as the number one podcast app for listening in the United States. All of that happened while Apple bundled its creator tools, including Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro, into a new 1299 monthly subscription.

29:21 I love how this team has grown and we now have correspondence and new segments on Newsday and no exception, BC Babbles has a couple of I'm calling them them Hollywood Bites because I still haven't settled with BC on a name yet for this segment. So we'll just say Hollywood Bites for now, but go ahead BC. A lot of us people may remember that earlier on in the 2000s, there was a show called Smallville which chronicled the early upcoming years of Superman. Now Michael Rosenbaum played Lex Luthor, Superman's rival on the show. Since then, he's had his own podcast, inside of You Have for a few years now, on which he has interviewed countless stars from countless franchises, even his own former Co stars. But one person I didn't think he'd ever have on the show was Allison Mack.

30:14 Now Allison Mack played Chloe Sullivan, Hark Kents best friend throughout the entire run of the show, but in 20/19 she got into some hot water and even went to prison for her role in a cult like group. I believe it's pronounced Nexium, which had a lot of weird things going on, but specifically forced labor and sex trafficking. Now he actually brought her onto the show in November of 2025 and it's kind of a lot of negative pushback. A lot of people saying that it kind of came off as a really kind of tone deaf almost redemption that tempt, I'm sorry, and giving her a platform while not giving a platform to anyone to speak on behalf of the victims of this cult.

30:57 And so to the team, I'd like to hit with a question, you know, what do we as podcasters think about this suggesting my or requiring mindfulness about who we provide space to on our platforms? Anyone have a thought? About that one, yeah, go. Ahead, Alex. Hey, it's your podcast, your your rules. If you want to go in that direction, you have the right to do that, but you also have to take the consequences. It comes down to, you know, we were talking about this couple weeks ago or last week or maybe so having that pre interview, what you're going to talk about, what you're not going to talk about, but you have to do your due diligence. And I think that's the main thing. You know, if you want to give a the best full circle or I don't know if that's the right word, but all the views, that's fine.

31:44 If you want to just give that person a platform for redemption, that's fine too, but I don't see a problem with that. Just clearly he didn't because he put her on. Big stars can do that, and it's better for their ratings. You have to deal with the consequences and I think it is, I personally think it's a little tone deaf in the current time with situations that are going on that I don't know that I would bring somebody on that was involved in any sex trafficking schemes at all. But that's just me. I don't want to deal with those consequences. This is a great podcast. I love this podcast. He gets, he gets them to say really, really inviting, really tasty, juicy stuff. But given that I actually heard this episode in the middle of a dry needling session.

32:37 So I would like held Captive, but for me, this episode was kind of a nothing burger, you know? It was like I wanted to hear more stuff about stuff and it just wasn't there for me. So for you, the controversy, if any, was just who the guest was. But as far as her appearance, there was nothing very controversial to you. Nothing was said. Sometimes people go on these shows after something like this, after APR crisis like this, and to try and get their career back in step. It's like going on Dancing with the Stars. Everyone that goes on Dancing with the Stars has a second career, for God's sake. Oh yeah, So it wasn't.

33:20 Even. Oh, my God. Every. Everyone. Yeah. Marie Osmond, everyone. That wasn't even happening in that vein. It was kind of nothing for nothing. It was kind of a boring interview, which was not his. Not as usual. Not as usual, right? Fascinating. Very cool. Thank you, Dr. Great to have somebody who's an avid listener to comment weigh in on that. I will say this though, Mark, it's really interesting what Dr. said about it being like a nothing burger because a lot of times that's what it seems like it always is when it comes with these controversies. It's just not what it is. Like you said, it's a small bite or it's a small piece and the whole rest of the interview is about something different and it's just to try to stir stuff up to get more ratings. You know, The thing is you got to be careful of this because if you hype something up and you don't deliver on it, you're only going to get one or two chances to do that. Remember when I was a kid, my mom told me don't cry wolf. And that's the thing.

34:20 I had to be as a contract creator. Could be really careful of that here. Agreed. Go ahead, Matt. So inside of you, I think for context, is one of these really weird shows that people complain a lot about a lot with celebrities where everybody can get something out of it because everyone's interested in movies, TV, celebrities, all that stuff. But I think what Mike Michael Rosenbaum really does with the show is that it's it's for people in the industry who want to talk about the things that the industry doesn't talk about. There's been a few episodes that I've watched that have been potential career Enders for people. But the platform he has is the mental health of people in the industry and sharing and talking about things that people can learn from. The Rahul Kohli episode I would urge people to have a look at as a perfect example of that, where he was talking about getting roles in COVID, putting on tons of weight and affecting his own health to be able to act in a role. And then calling out people he worked with, not directly by name, but they would know who they are and saying really direct things about the things that made acting hard for him. And that kind of thing is what Michael Rosenbaum really does well.

35:36 So I think just for the context of what's been shared or potentially platformed here, I think Michael was thinking of the actors who want to learn from experiences and continue healthily within the industry. And then layer on top of that the public perception for the all the rest of us who aren't actors. I can't speak for anyone in the audience, of course. I presume none of you are actors. Well, maybe, Mark, you've done your improv. Probably. Close enough, I guess. Thank you. Matt and Ralph, do you want to share what you just shared in the chat in response? I think it's the danger of oversharing, and if you don't deliver, you get yourself caught. That's the problem with that, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

36:16 Let's keep things moving because we are getting dangerously close to the top of the hour and I will actually before we do BCI know you have one more story and then we'll dig into a couple of the headlines to wrap us up. Yes, so Pete Davidson, one of our favorite SNL alumn and stand up comedians is going to be hitting Netflix soon with his very own weekly show called The Pete Davidson Show. It's looking to air on the platform on Friday the 30th next Friday at 2:12 O1 Pacific Time in the morning, not afternoon. And it's going to be a fun news show. They haven't released his topics or his guest lists yet. Netflix does already have a few of his different comedy specials, including Turbo Fonzarelli and a Live from New York, so he's excited to be partnering with the platform again.

37:06 It's going to be produced by Mark Lieberman, who is the president of Above Average. And so this is looking to be a pretty awesome show. And where is it going to be producing the show from his garage where he quote, says all the best conversations happen. And there's also some possibility that he will be taking the show to the road eventually. So I'm looking like a pretty fun show coming up here for Pete Davidson. Personally, I keep like seeing more and more of these podcast Netflix agreements. I'm like, you know what? I like to know how much these make. And granted, a little side note here, if you're a big platform like Barstool Sports, then you're making like 10 million a year on spot on Netflix for your podcast agreement.

37:48 So I'm not sure how much these typically offer out, but I'm kind of getting more interested personally. I'd like to look into one of these deals myself. But yeah, fun news show for Pete Davidson coming out next Friday. Anyone here at Pete Davidson van? I enjoy his comedy. He makes me laugh. Go ahead, Dr. Was she saying no? Is the ultimate Pete Davidson fan. So quick, so quick. Was it Dr. He may not be his target audience, so that's OK. Well, the story that BC just talked about, throughout the entire thing, he kept saying show, show, show. And I thought, you know what? This was actually billed as a podcast, and it wasn't until the very last couple of lines that you had said the word podcast. So yeah, this is Netflix step into podcasting. This is the difference between I love, you know, when you talk about business.

38:49 I know Ralph could probably go on for hours on this. The way Netflix is pivoting themselves compared to like a Hulu that's going away, compared to all these streaming services, they're just making themselves more relevant. And when you look at something like a Pete Davidson show, podcast, whatever. Cuz I'm, I actually, when you talked about Netflix in the beginning, I went to the podcast page and coming at in next week is not like they have a whole bunch of sports podcasts that are replaying. But now they're starting to branch out into other things. And it's just, it's a great pivot and they're doing a tournament to shows. And it just comes down to what's the difference between content creation slash podcasting slash a show. It's going to the, the lines are going to get really blurry. And I've heard from a lot of the, when you listen to the interviews from a lot of the big actors that have been going on to Netflix, they're saying it's a lot easier to deal with than trying to deal with the traditional, an old movie route where you there's just too many people, too many cooks in the kitchen, so to speak.

40:00 So it's an interesting thing that's going to be going on and it's something that we should all be taking a look at because some of these podcasts are not just big names. They're kind of not smaller names, but they're maybe not as well known as you may think. And I'm wondering too if, if, if honestly, and I could be wrong, I'm just not thinking about this the right way, but is this the best timing for the podcasting part? Because Warner Brothers are not Warner Brothers, but Netflix, as I understand it, they just won that battle over Warner Brothers and they're going to be bringing all that new content into the platform. It'll obviously kind of enlarge in the audience, which is great. But will that potentially over shadow this pivot into the podcasting world? I think it's going to actually just make it better because of the fact that what's their ultimate goal? Them and YouTube have the same goal, just keep you on their platform.

40:54 And I think Netflix is turning into Google in the sense of it's a noun and a verb. My daughter, she just, she doesn't watch regular. Most kids now don't watch regular TV as much as they used to. They go on to Netflix, they go on to their streaming services because they just don't know any better because that's all we've had. After seeing what they did with Hulu, with Disney, and I know that's not really what we're talking about, but it is by taking a whole service and putting it into Disney. They've got to consolidate. It's getting too ridiculous with all these separate fees. I mean, we just talked about it with ChatGPT. I mean, how many streaming services are, how many products can we have? DRI mean, you know, you could spend $1000 a month on 20 bucks a month.

41:36 It's got to do something, I think. I'm going to give Ralph the final word, and then we're going to actually move into another story also related to this as far as Netflix and their podcasting efforts. But first, let's go to Ralph I. Just want to give everybody a warning about consolidation. Consolidation, in my view, usually means it gets more expensive because you've got less options. So just keep that in mind. It's great. We're seeing consolidation, fantastic everything on one platform. But usually when that happens, the price goes up because there's no competition. So just fair warning on that one. Yeah, thank you, Ralph Agreed. All right, DRI just teased the fact that we're going to talk a little bit about Netflix, so take it away.

42:19 Yeah, so goodbye YouTube. Hello Netflix Podcast takeover. Netflix is rolling out a massive video podcast push in January 26th. The streamer will premiere 34 licensed and original podcasts from partners like iHeartMedia, Spotify, The Ringer, and Barstool Sports. Big names like the Bill Simmons Podcast, Pardon My Take, My Favorite Murder, and the Official Bridgerton podcast are headed for Netflix. This marks Netflix's first Netflix's OK, that's hard to say. Netflix's first large scale entry into podcasts with plans to expand further through 2026. Now here are some of the highlights of the lineup. Includes daily and weekly premieres across genres from sports to true crime.

43:15 Netflix expects to scale from 34 shows to 50 to 75 podcasts in 2026. Some podcasts will be exclusive video premieres on Netflix. Original Netflix podcast shows like Skip Intro with Skip Intro with Krista Smith. Join licensed content, licensed content. OK, here's some questions for the room. So is it better for podcast brands to chase platform deals or double down on audience worship? What do you think, Mark? Yeah. I mean, I personally think it's really important for us to continue to focus, double down, as you said, on audience ownership. I think, yeah, I mean, we want to own our audiences. This is just like everything else we talk about, right? Like, yeah, social media is great and it's it can be really helpful to have a presence there. But that's but it's also owned by a third party. And we don't have control.

44:20 They could take us down tomorrow if they felt like it, right? That's why we encourage things like newsletters. And I think, you know, owning your RSS feed, owning your podcast is going to be really important now more than ever. I think it comes down to, you know, what do we want to prioritize? To your point, I think if we're community focused, then we need to be able to keep ourselves in spaces where we command and and and control how we develop that community. You know, so we got we got to stay in the free or at least the non corporate oversight spaces so that we can, you know, cultivate the connections that we want. And as cool as these deals seem, I and I put this in the chat here as well.

45:01 There's some pretty strong caveats to being a Netflix podcasting program. One of the big ones being exclusivity and video rights. So you won't be able to share your show to platforms like YouTube, which is a pretty big drawback for those of us who are video podcasters. That being said, there is a bit of a kind of offset. It does partner with Spotify and iHeartMedia. So you would show up there. As far as other platforms like Apple Podcasts or Pocket Casts, all the other potential streaming platforms that simply being on Lib Syn or Pond Bean would provide you, you'd be a lot more restricted on who, on what people, what paid users get to become part of your audience.

45:42 So, you know, it again goes back to just how we want or what we prize versus money or audience. Yeah. Thank you, BCI. Appreciate that breakdown. And let's also not put the cart before the horse, as they say. This is not a platform right now that any of us can just go on and put our podcast there. Will that change? I predict it could. If they're having success, Netflix could end up creating a category for creators to add their content. But as of now, there's no way unless we are with a major network and they want to use our content on Netflix, there's no other way that we would be able to as independent podcasters. No way we could do that right now. I think with the growth of the creator economy, it would be likely that there is an option they'll for creators eventually to add their podcast to.

46:34 It's the platform because the creator economy is going to be a huge part of. You know the future. And the other thing I was going to say is when it comes down to growing our own podcast, the wave of the future is community. And you know, you, you've talked about it. I think we've got to control our communities in order to grow our podcast. And that, you know, none of us are looking for a Netflix deal, but I think that's. That that is a struggle with. If you don't have a community, then you don't have a podcast that's going to be successful off of a platform like that. So yeah, Woogie shall see, right? Who knows? This is going to be an interesting it.

47:16 It is an interesting development and it's interesting to see where it's going to go from here. I'm going to let Janae comment on this as well. He's just joined us from the audience. Good morning, Janae and Janae, it was great spending some time with you this past week at Podfest. He was a busy man as well. Good morning to you, Janet. This is a powerful topic, right? We were talking about community. We're talking about our potential audience and the names that they are mentioned. These are podcasts that already have an audience to already have a community and Netflix is paying them big bucks so that they can bring that audience over to their platform. So it's all a land grab if you think about it, right? It's a land grab because they want what they don't have. They don't have the users that are listening to these podcasts. So of course they're going to make these big deals and, and the long term, they're probably going to make a lot more money. I had posted in the comments that basically what they're doing is they're taking these podcasts from free distribution services.

48:11 RSS is free. You can pull this RSS feed and pull out podcasts and listen to it on any single platform, but what they're doing is they're gatekeeping now. Oh, you got to have a Netflix subscription to go listen to that podcast now. How is the audience going to feel that are already consuming their content? That is the bigger question. Thank you. Yeah, that is, and I would love to know, maybe there's some data out there. I would love to know what percentage of Netflix users are also avid podcast consumers. My feeling is, is that it's probably a similar audience and I would guess that a lot of these people probably already have a Netflix subscription, but certainly not everyone.

48:53 And there will be a in a significant amount of people that will probably be annoyed with this. To your point, Ralph, did you want to comment? Yeah, I just wanted to bring one more thing to the conversation. Is this much different than the push in 2026 where people are starting to think about putting their content behind a paid wall? Is it that much different? You know, people are wanting to cash in and monetize things. It's, I don't know, there's that much different Mark. It is and it isn't. I mean, look, one thing is, is that if you're selling it yourself, you're getting more of the profits, right? Like that's a big thing to consider. And again, it's also limiting to a specific platform, you know, on Netflix and maybe some people don't want a subscription to Netflix.

49:39 I know there, there is some pros and cons to it for sure. And yes, I, I could see your point that in some ways there's a lot of similarities to that. All right, I'm going to go to Matt. And I saw, I think BC wanted to comment and then I got something to share before we wrap up. So stick around. Go for it, Matt. Cynic and me again wants to point out that what happens in a year when Netflix goes doesn't really work for us, sorry, and the podcasts are left to pick up the pieces again. I think there's not going to be a creator opportunity if it's not successful with the the platforms they've picked to to work with and we've seen it happen.

50:20 Spotify over invested. They actually killed teams of podcasts they acquired and they don't exist anymore. So we just need to keep that in mind as well. Fairpoint yeah, BC did you want to add something? I was going to say as far as the difference between, or is there a difference between, you know, putting your content behind a paywall versus one of these these kind of Netflix style deals is that I think it's one thing to put my content behind a paywall where it's like 5 bucks a month, but I still control the audience that's invited. I still control what the content is. I don't have this kind of corporate potential, huge corporate oversight saying, well, to fit us or to fit a certain category, we have to make sure that you make sure that your content stays within certain bumpers. Just a random thought there.

51:04 Yeah, Yep. Thank you BC appreciate that and appreciate all the all the engagement today. We had a lot of good stuff to share. I do want to remind everyone that tomorrow here at the podcasting morning chat, we are due back to our evaluation series. We're going to be evaluating the podcast Life Fulfilled. And this is hosted by Bernie, and please forgive me, Bernie, I only speak to you at by first name and I don't know how to pronounce your last name, but I think it's Borges. And I've known Bernie a couple of years now through Pod Fest. I met him of two pod fests ago, 3 now I guess through our old friend Stacy Sherman, who's been a big part of this community and he's got this podcast.

51:48 He's asked for an evaluation. The team has been listening. It's a 1516 minute episode. We'll link to it in our show notes if you want to listen, but we'll also play some clips tomorrow in case you didn't just to get a better feel of the different things that we'll be discussing and evaluating. And I want to say that even though this isn't your podcast, I promise you that there's stuff to learn by listening to other podcasts and getting feedback, like the feedback we'll be providing tomorrow. So come join us 7:00 AM. Eastern live on all the streaming platforms I've shared. If you need more information on where to find us, go to podcastingmorningchat.com or podpage.com/PMC.

52:33 Until tomorrow, make it a great day everybody. Take care.