6 Lessons From the Kelce Brothers That Build Listener Loyalty

0:05 Good morning podcasting Morning Chat. Today is Monday, December 1st, 2025 and today obsession worthy podcast with new heights. We're breaking down the Kelsey Brothers authenticity chemistry community and their content to reveal the key elements that keep listeners coming back. So if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, top right hand side of the screen and share it. However, Clubhouse lets you. And if you're catching us via podcast, chat or YouTube, please share this episode with a fellow podcaster. And now give us about 30 seconds. We'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here. Good morning again podcasting morning chat. Thanks so much for being here.

1:25 I am your host Mark Ronick and currently on stage with me we have my Co host Jonathan Howard, Ralph Estep, Nick Nolback, Dr. Faye and Alex Baelish. You may, if you're a regular listener, you may have noticed a couple of names. I didn't say that I normally do in the morning. Sid Meadows is feeling a little under the weather today so he is not going to be able to join us. And producer Ashley is away on a much well deserved vacation. I believe she's in the Bahamas. Lucky. Did you see her post? No. Some something about about six hours ago she posted how surreal it is to hear a British person sing Sweet Home Alabama on their way to the Caribbean or something like that. Hilarious.

2:18 Well, I hope she's having a blast. Looking forward to hearing more from her and I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving. Thank you for your patience giving us the week off. It was very relaxing for me to say the least. It was nice to not have any pressure of doing a show. Even though I do love doing these shows, it there is definitely a pressure behind them each and every day so that was a nice break. It was a little different for me this year, Thanksgiving. It was a great Thanksgiving and a little different because my parents, normally I do Thanksgiving with them and all the family usually comes to Maryland where I'm from. And this year she went to go spend Thanksgiving with my brother in California with his wife and her family.

3:05 So it was a little different. I got to see them before Thanksgiving week. I came in over the weekend and got to spend a little time with them over the weekend and then sent them off to California. I hope everyone had a great time and DRI see you were having some fun with AI on the break. So much fun. And before I want to set this up properly, especially because I see Alex's in the room, I'll explain Dr. did some playing around with her podcast that has yet to launch podcast help desk. And today we're not going to give her crap about the fact that it hasn't launched yet.

3:46 All right, So I'm just putting it out there today we're is going to be a crapless day for Dr. We are not going to give you a hard time about that show. We will at some point because we think it's a great idea and I've heard bits and pieces and I think it's really a needed show. But with that, you were doing some some playing for that. Show Well, yeah, you know, one of my groups had asked about audio jungle. Is it still the standard blah blah blah and people are saying, yeah, it's still the standard. And I thought, you know, I've been meaning to play with Suno and I just haven't done it yet. So this might be a good opportunity to do that. And Cher, would you mind what Suno is?

4:27 OK, SUNO is a an AI and I and I think Ralph, you know about this. Suno is an AI music platform. You can prompt it to do anything, and the prompt I used was just the simplest compared to like other prompts that I've used. It was just the simplest little thing. It was cool jazz, stand up bass, snare, brushes like piano. For four time, that's all I had. Interesting. OK. And by the way, thank you for reminding me about Ralph, because Ralph was also playing with some AI music as well.

5:12 He reminded us about that. Yeah. So we'll have to, I'll have to grab something from you too, Ralph, so we can play that for everybody who's interested. But we'll we've got hers. DRS on standby here. Dr. Is that enough of a setup? You want me to hit play on this clip? I just want to make it clear that I have 0 intention of changing the music that I have had but I just wanted to play with this and so I used my own podcast as an example. OK, got it. All right. Cool. And by the way, I had played a little bit with AI myself doing some Sora app stuff, making some videos for the Thanksgiving holiday. I don't know if anyone got to see those. Oh my God, the balloon.

5:57 The huge. The podcaster float balloon. Yes, starting yours truly. Yeah, that that one you have to go see. I'll put a link in the show notes for that. In the meantime, I'll play one clip. I figure we'll play a clip every day because I think you got four of them. So as as long as this will last us, here's clip one of podcast help desks. I'm joking. New theme song. Got a question, podcaster? Do you? Is your mic acting like a diva? Got a hiss, A hum or a crackle in the air?

6:40 Don't despair. Oh no, don't despair. We've got answers. Slick and snappy. Make your show sound oh so happy. Welcome to the podcast help desk. Wow. Wait troubles. Take the rest. Got a query? We've got the zest podcast help desk. We are guest. Now this is a little instrumental here. Feeling stuck?

7:23 On your. Oh no. Or tangled up in sponsor greed. Every download, every stream, every quick will fix it up quick as a trick. I love it. I was sitting here dancing. I don't know if anyone was watching on YouTube. So, and I didn't even say, you know, give me Michael Bublé. I didn't say that. But man, it just it just, I just died. It's just so good. I love that. And since you brought up Ralph, let me check in with Ralph. Ralph, do you want to share what you're up to with AI Music? Absolutely, Mark, and good morning. Glad everybody's back after a nice Turkey break. So I do a weekly sermon show and what I've been doing, it's kind of cool.

8:10 I dropped the transcript into some AI tools and actually build a song lyric. And then I'm actually using Suno to actually build songs and I'm actually releasing those and they're really cool. They really turn out good. So I've got 5 releases now that are out on YouTube and iTunes, Apple Music, Spotify and all that kind of stuff. So they're they're pretty cool and it's working out great. And I just finished doing a theme song for my new content creator show. I sent you a link to that to Google got docs and it really turned out pretty cool. Awesome, I will make sure to share that. I'm going to ask you also again, Ralph, to send me that in a private DM just to me because I think you sent it in the group chat and just in case, I want to make sure I've got the right link. So send that to me and I will put that in the show notes. Very cool.

8:58 And who else did I see? Oh, Jonathan said his podcast theme is AI generated as well. Is that right, Jonathan? That's correct. It's all done on SUNO, so and the opening and the closing and it it's a full song. I've just taken parts of it. Yeah, yes, because I was going to say, although a really fun song that Dr. shared probably too long Dr. to to go with for a podcast. Yeah, yeah. It gave me two free downloads like Here You Go and then the longer songs. I had to subscribe. Now I don't know if it was if it's still going on, but the Black Friday special was only for $8 a month and what I'll probably do I I plopped down the $8 just to get those two longer 2 songs, but I'll probably do is just unsubscribe and then resubscribe when I need to for like clients and stuff. Yeah, very cool, very cool.

9:56 By the way, if you are listening via podcast and every so often you might hear a little weird chime that's just some Clubhouse background stuff going on. Usually it means somebody is asked to come join us on stage. Just sharing in case you've never been on Clubhouse before and hear those noises. Sometimes they come through, sometimes we're able to edit them out or Authonic is able to edit them out. Quick update for you and then I'm I want to check in with Greg who's on stage with us. I had, I mentioned briefly last week, I think, or the the last week that we were recording, I had mentioned that I wasn't happy with Authonic and it was sometimes just doing some weird stuff to our audio and I was playing around with it. We're not going away from Authonic because I think still, even what it does when it doesn't do the best job, I still think it's better overall than than without it. So we're still using it.

10:53 And also, Ashley did attend a seminar that they hosted that we talked about on one of the news episodes last month and she attended and there's some cool updates coming that actually I think will solve the issues that we were experiencing. So stay tuned. Offonic is still making some big moves. All right, I'm going to go to Greg, and Greg, I'm going to ask you, and I think Chris wants to come up and join as well. Chris, we tried to invite you up here. Yeah. I. Tried, yeah, But all I'm going to ask is let's make these brief because I do want to get into the main topic today, which has nothing to do with AI generated music. And I'm going to be handing the mic over to Jonathan in a second who will lead the discussion.

11:36 So first, let me go to Greg. Greg, good morning. Did you want to add anything about this AI discussion or did you have something else for us? I get a little bit of everything, but like you said, I'll make it really brief. DRI love that. Like Mark? Says a little. Long for podcast, but my gosh, and I'm age master age myself here. It put me in the mindset of Frank Sinatra. Yeah, my Life Before podcast, I was a professional jazz singer and that is the genre that I worked in for a long time. So I was right at home when it it came out. OK, we're going to keep things moving.

12:18 Let's go to Jonathan with today's meet of the show, the Obsession worthy podcasts. I know Jonathan, this is something he's been doing with his own podcast, I think, and also over on Chatter as well, which we are streaming to there as well. And we all took a vote, the team, the PMC team, and we picked New Heights, Jason and Travis Kelce's podcast and we picked a specific episode. Well, Jonathan picked a specific episode and we're going to talk about it and he's going to help us dissect this episode to really understand what makes these guys so obsession worthy.

12:59 So with that Jonathan, the floor is yours. You let me know when you want me to play any of your clips. Absolutely. Well, thank you very much. And before we get into the clips and stuff, I just kind of want to talk about why, you know, we look at these different podcasts. None of us have a football podcast like that's not what we're doing. So why are we looking at at New Heights? One, because surprisingly, everybody voted for it. I'm not quite sure why, but also it's it's to look at what's happening in these podcasts that are popular and see what we can adapt for our own podcast and make, you know, using other people's best practices for for good to and to help us out. So that's really why we look at them this way.

13:41 And let's talk a little bit about what New Heights is just in case you've never heard of it, which is possible. So it's hosts are Jason and Travis Kelsey. You might know the Kelsey brothers, former Eagle Center and Travis is a tight end for Kansas City. And the format is really a weekly long form conversational podcast where they talk about games and inside stories and some pop culture and maybe some Taylor Swift because Travis might be dating to Taylor Swift, engaged to Taylor Swift. Maybe maybe part of why the podcast is popular and obsession worthy. Maybe.

14:23 But. There's more to it. I don't want to interrupt you too much. And let me know when I can comment on my first initial thoughts because aside from the Taylor Swift episode, which admittedly I didn't listen to that whole thing, but that was really my only exposure to the New Heights podcast until yesterday on my drive home from Maryland to North Carolina. And yeah, I have some thoughts. Well, why don't we go into your thoughts and then we can hit that first clip. OK, cool. Well, I mean, I will admit that when I listened, I was excited about it. I am a football fan. I do know these two players very well from my football fandom, and I know that this has been a really popular podcast. So I was excited to dig into it.

15:09 And I got to say I didn't love it. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it. And I think maybe this is more of the producer side of me coming out than the fan side of me. But I just felt like if this were a podcast that we were doing an evaluation of say, you know, like what we do every Thursday, I think we would have been picking this one apart a bit. Because yes, there are lots of things here that do make it obsession worthy. And I'm curious to hear your analysis. But a lot of it felt very scattered to me.

15:49 And it felt very unprepared in in the sense that like, and I don't want to go too far ahead, but in the sense like they start the show with a little bit of banter, which I'm a big fan of. I don't mind that at all. But then they get into these random news topics and it felt very random to me. It felt very forced to me, especially because this particular episode we dug into was from the the Brother Bowl when the two played against each other in 2023 for the Super Bowl title. So anyway, it just, I felt like initially I just felt like it. It didn't feel, I just felt like we would have been picking it apart if it were an indie podcast versus a podcast hosted by very popular people.

16:41 It needs a script. It needs something, I don't know what, but and I was structure, yeah. And I wasn't particularly appreciative, which of course I almost expected it when I hit play and got like almost 3 minutes of commercials I think. Oh, I'm sorry. I I just finished the commercials. Yeah. And you? Talking all the time. Exactly, Alex. Exactly. There were a lot before they really dug into the show. It was about 3 to 5 minutes in before they actually got into the meat of it, which kind of annoyed me as well. But I know that these popular podcasts, that's what they do. I don't think it's the right thing to do, but that is what they do. All right, So Jonathan, you want me to start with this first clip? Yeah, let's start with that first clip. All righty, here we go.

17:25 But I would never be playing this damn game if it wasn't for you. Stop. No, it is. It's the truth, man. I followed your footsteps into it. I actually tried to play football. When you started playing football, So you started playing hockey, I started playing hockey. You'd started playing football, I started playing football. Yeah. There was pretty much every sport except for basketball like that. You started playing lacrosse. I started playing lacrosse. So yeah, I've kind of just been following your footsteps throughout this whole gig. And to go through everything leading up to this moment or leading up to this year and then having the year that we had and then meeting you at the mountaintop, brother, it was it was like we we were on top of that thing together, man. And.

18:09 OK, there's that clip. And I mean, I feel that as a football fan, it was, it's really cool. And I'm not necessarily even a big fan of those two teams, especially not the Eagles. But yeah, I mean it. It's cool to hear that that story, Jonathan, of, you know, these two brothers and growing up together. And I could feel that moment of them, you know, it all coming together in the Super Bowl when they get to see each other. Yeah, absolutely. And I and that is one of the biggest things with this podcast and why it works because the two of them have such a close relationship and they're they know what they're talking about. There's this brotherly banter that happens. Now we're not all going to we're not going to be, you know, brothers with all of our Co hosts. So how does this work?

18:56 How does this work out for us? If we're looking to take something that's definitely working for them and make it work for us, It's about that chemistry. It's about that, you know, having somebody that knows how you're thinking and can connect with you and understand, like can finish your sentences and having that real chemistry, I think is really important. But I did see Alex through his hot pepper there. Yeah, let's go to Alex. And I wanted to talk also about chemistry as well. And especially to your point about the, you know, we can't always do it with a sibling. Some of us don't even have siblings. So what do we do? And I do have some thoughts on that. But yeah, let's go to Alex first. Go ahead, Alex. There's a lot of things that factor and I don't, you know, when it comes to this podcast, they were a podcast before Taylor Swift and they're going to be a podcast after Taylor Swift.

19:45 And I think that is a huge factor. I think between the two brothers, it was the perfect storm of success and their podcast is a mess. It really is. But in terms of their chemistry, I mean, their chemistry is their chemistry. Their two brothers, they know they have great stories. But I think, yeah, on the whole, it's a pain because it's a lot of a lot of minutiae. But when you take out the clips, I think it's a lot of a lot of fun. At least that's just my opinion. Thank you, Alex. And yeah, as far as the chemistry goes, I do think there is something to be said about doing, if you're going to have a Co host, there is something about doing it with somebody that you know and know ideally that you know really well.

20:28 One of my most successful podcasts, the Mark and Lowell Show, I was with my best friend growing up as young teenagers to this very day. So I mean, essentially it was like brothers and it worked really well. You can't deny a good chemistry. And if, you know, you're going to bring somebody on, yeah, I think it's worth considering people that, you know, there are certainly other factors to consider when you bring on people that you know, because, you know, more or less, this is now also going to become a working relationship and you want to make sure you're protecting yourselves as well. But yeah, I think there is certainly, Jonathan, something to be said about doing a podcast with people that you know. Yeah, absolutely.

21:13 And and the other thing that I find they do really, really well as they balance one another out, like Jason does a lot of the technical commentary and honestly, Travis is the color commentary for, you know, football and everything else. So it's really just, you know, Jason's personality is a little bit more serious and Travis is a goofball younger brother. And it kind of works really well when they because that also balances each other out and they do have, you know, which will be the next clip, actually emotional moments as well that really connect with the audience.

21:55 And that's one of the biggest things that I think they have coming going for them is they have these emotional moments. And yes, they've had a lot of stuff thrown at them that's been emotional and up and down and crazy and suddenly no thrust into the spotlight. But they have it's real. It feels very real, even though Taylor Swift is on at times, you know, So if you want to play that next one. Sure thing, here we go. Just wanted to say congratulations and was really happy for you, but still caught up in myself a little bit and you know, and I, I think I just tried to get away from you as quick as possible. So you go celebrate with your teammates.

22:35 But the moment I saw Mom is when I got really emotional because man, it was so awesome. It was. Tears are coming both to. Their right now, yeah. Yeah, both of them were tearing up. I watched this clip as well and they were both you.

23:15 Obviously Jason was emotional, but you couldn't really tell. Travis was just as emotional. Yeah, and and they bring the whole family in and we and it feels to the viewers like we're part of that family. I mean, I know Kylie has been a part of the podcast and you're, you know, them in, even in this episode, they actually at the end of it, they're talking about who would play who in a movie and they're talking about, you know, their dad and their mom and all that. They bring people into the family and that makes people feel like they're part of the family. And revealing those emotional moments is a really powerful way to connect with your audience and bring them in if you're, you know, being vulnerable is a big win.

24:04 Jonathan, I couldn't agree more about bringing in, whether they're family members, friends, colleagues, whatever. When there are other people that you know, bringing them in, even when we say that, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to put them on a microphone, right? You can talk about them. And there is something that helps your audience connect with you when you're bringing in more of your personal life or personal experiences into the podcast. I, I think that's what again, when I think about my old show, that's one, one reason why it did so well is because we always had a cast of characters, if you will.

24:47 We had, you know, our, our third wheel, our third best friend of the two of us. We had, we had a third and he would often join us, right? We would talk about people in our lives, whether it was spouses, family, friends, etcetera. And you might be saying to me right now, well, that's great, Mark, but I'm doing a podcast on something very specific. You know, it's, it's a more serious or it, it's not just a bunch of friends and family talking. And I get that, but I also think that's where you, how do I put this? That's where you're able to really hook an audience is when you do get personal, when you do bring in your own experiences into the mix. For most of us, not everyone, but for a lot of us as podcasters, we started this because of personal experiences, because of the things that we've gone through. So there in most cases, there's no reason why you can't then share those experiences and the people who were a part of those experiences.

25:55 It adds a very, in my opinion, important layer to a podcast. It it's what separates your show about X from this other person's show about X. You know, I, I agree 100% and you know, I do, I have a serious podcast. I talk about storytelling and, and how to use it for business. But I'll also talk if there might be a couple seconds where of course I'll talk about, I'll look at my picture right now. I'll talk about my dogs or my new dogs and everything that's happening because that's part of what's going on in my life. And while it's not storytelling and it's still something that connects with the audience, and I think that's really, really important for everybody. Yeah, I think.

26:39 Did you want to go to Nick? Yeah, let's go to Nick. Nick, you said something in the chat that I'd love to, I'd love for you to expand on, if you don't mind. Good morning. Hi. Good morning, everybody. Yeah, I I think the. The personal stories and I like, I agree that it definitely is impactful. I think everything holds true regardless if you have a like if you're a celebrity and have a podcast or if you just are an independent podcaster. I think the personal stories, it creates relatability. But I, I do think that the fact that they are celebrities amplifies that emotional bit a lot more than just your average independent podcaster. And the reason I say that is because these are people that they are in the spotlight 24/7.

27:28 Like if you're fans of Travis and Jason Kelsey or either one of them, you know a lot of what's going on in their life already. And there's not really a lot left to discover until they bring out these emotional moments, these things that they're not going to show up in an interview when they're doing a pre or post game interview for the the football game or when they're topping on other podcast or whatever, they're usually talking about what they do, which is football. And these moments. It's like you're learning something new about someone that in theory you've known for years at this point, you've been a fan of and you've been following everything they do. So I think it has just a much bigger impact in their case.

28:13 Yeah, I agree with you, Nick. Thank you for expanding on that. And I'm going to go to Ralph because Ralph, you shared that you actually just released an episode with some emotion and I thought would you mind sharing? Yeah, so yesterday's show that I released on my Truth Unveiled show, Yeah, I, I just lost it when I was recording you because I was talking about my shortcomings as a husband and father and how I didn't give my kids the time they needed when they were younger. And I was so interested in chasing after the almighty dollar. And it was interesting when I was recorded. I have Ava that joins me in the recording session. She doesn't participate, but it's kind of helps me, coaches me along. And she said she had to look away from the screen when she when I was recording because she said she was sobbing too.

28:54 But, and it would have been easy for me to edit that out. But man, that's the point of the whole show is that I want to be vulnerable with people so they know they can be vulnerable as well. And I think that the Kelsey brothers are doing the exact same thing. And, and I'm not a big fan of theirs. I like football too, Mark. I'm a Cowboys fan. So, but anyway, that's a whole another story. But I think, but I think that as podcasters, this is where we can lean into our own pain. We can lean into the things that we've experienced and people will benefit from that. But you have to be willing to be vulnerable in doing that. Yeah, I'm with you, Ralph. Thank you. Yeah, both you and Nick, I think are making some great points. You got to bring emotion into it.

29:34 If you want to really connect with an audience, if you really want to be an obsession worthy podcast, don't, don't shy away from those moments. Don't edit them out again. That's what makes you different from the competition. And even if the competition, and I don't love using that word, but for lack of a better one, you know, even if they're doing the emotional thing too, when appropriate, it it's still their story and yours is still yours. And it's different. And your audience is going to connect with that. They want to hear the human side in you. Jonathan, I'll hand it back to you all.

30:14 Right. So the next thing that I wanted to talk about is really the structure that they that they actually do have a little bit of a structure to the show and they have recurring features and segments and stuff that give the listeners a sense of rhythm on the show and it creates familiarity. So when there's familiarity, that builds your loyalty. So just an example of some of the segments, like there's new news, there's no dumb questions, which is listener Q&A. There's the Heights Hotline, which is fans leaving voicemails of stories, relationships, questions that they might have even dumb questions. New Heights Film Club, which is movie reviews, oddly enough.

30:57 And if it still stands up and the stamps the week, which is recognition for people that are doing something elite and it could be one of their fans. So two things with all these segments. One, it creates that flow, that rhythm, and people can know what to expect when they're listening if they're regular listeners. And the other thing is a lot of them involve their community. And this is one of the things that they do to get so many people rallied around the podcast because they've got the 92 Percenters, which we'll have a little clip of that coming up, but they involve them in the entire episode pretty much other than new news. 92 percenters.

31:39 That's the that's what they call their audience. Their audience, yeah. Yeah. So they've got, they've got, you know, they belong to something, the 92 Percenters and they're involved in the podcast in a lot of different ways. Other than new news, the rest of their segments involve their audience. So definitely some some interesting ways of getting people involved there. You know, this is something that we could be doing a better job of and something that I think is so valuable. Jonathan, thank you for pointing out the whole idea of naming the segments. It made feel silly sometimes to come up with names for all these different segments. But if you are doing a recurring segment, giving it a name gives it some weight.

32:23 It it gives your audience something to look forward to. It gives them something to understand right, that they they get to know what this segment is and they latch on to it. There's just something about giving segments names, giving them their proper credit, that an audience gravitates too. So I highly suggest that. I think that's a great thing that they're doing and something that we need to be doing more of. Do you want me to play a clip, Jonathan? Yeah. Do you want to play the? I think it was clip 3. Yep, clip three. I got it right here. Here we go. On TikTok Eve Hellerich. Eve Hellerich. Your own on that one, You're on that one. Longtime Chiefs Eagles fan creates a tie dye homemade Kelsey Bowl sweat suit and it is pretty smooth. She went half and half she went.

33:12 I remember seeing this one. Yeah, she killed it. Red on one side, green on the other. Mama Kells had one of those during the game and she had a little She had a Jean jacket like that made when half and half was repping both squads. And finally from Marie Thresher who emailed us saying I'm a local Philadelphia artist and New Heights podcast fan. After listening to the top five bowl segment in episode 25, I was inspired to sculpt an actual Kelsey Bowl made out of clay. Look at that. It could be a consolation prize, she says, for the brother who needs a hearty bowl of unlucky charms after the game. That was pretty smooth, how she brought that together. I love this. And this is an amazing piece of art. She's got a.

33:53 Yeah, they're OK. So that was them reading their fan mail from the 92 Percenters. Yeah, no. And bringing and bringing them into the podcast because if I was the woman who made the bowl or the TikTok person whose name he couldn't pronounce, I would feel really cool that I got a shout out on this podcast. Yeah, because I did something for them, you know, So bringing that community in and finding ways that you can bring your community in and make them feel a part of the show, make them feel like they actually matter. Because, you know, sometimes we don't always do the best job of that. We don't always make sure our audience knows that they matter to us and that we're actually every single time we get a comment on anything, we're excited about it because we are like, yay, somebody's paying attention to what we have to say.

34:40 So really just bringing them in and engaging them and getting them interested in what we're doing and and having to be a part of it. Yeah. And it doesn't matter whether you're a big podcast like New Heights or a smaller one like us. It doesn't matter when, when somebody from your audience hears their name or here's their letter that they wrote to you or whatever sent you a gift, whatever it is, when they are called out, it means something to them. They're not, they're not sitting there. All they were worried about or really all they care about is wow, that was my name. Wow. They're actually talking about me. I, I, I actually, maybe not made a difference, but I actually caught their attention. I'm, I'm now a part of this show, even if it's just for that one moment.

35:25 There's something special about that for an audience. Absolutely. And, and even when we do things like this and Ralph and Alex and Jen and Chris and Greg and Bez and, and, and Rima, like when we call out their names, they get that moment of being like, Oh my God, think that was me. And it actually literally little Ursus serotonin. They're excited. So that's, you know, it's a great way to get people more connected because every time we have those connections, they're they're going to stick around for for longer. Agreed. And you know, I think that it's it's falling back to the same thing I was just talking about when naming segments, because naming segments calling out listeners, it matters because it creates anticipation, familiarity, right?

36:14 And maybe even a little structure when you are went, for example, with the segments, you're creating structure by naming the segments. You're creating structure by doing a segment where you're reading the mail, reading your audience's mail. You're creating structure there because now you're you're putting the ball in their court. Now people are getting that invitation to send in their mail to your show. And because they're hoping it's going to be read, that you're actually going to read it and talk about it on the show. No, absolutely. I just wanted to shout out Leah and Michaela and Uela who are over here on Chatter. I didn't want to leave them out. Yeah, good morning, Chatter. Glad that they're here. Thank you. Yeah, don't leave them out by any stretch. So I mean, we can go to the next clip unless somebody has something else they wanted to add. Sure.

37:02 I'm going to go to that next clip. The new heights. 92 percenters, baby. I love. It with the old high school college commitment route where I just I got actually one more shirt under here. It's No, I'm kidding. You got the sweater, you got the I got the big Yeti under there. That's what you got, dude. 92 percenters. Why did you choose 92 percenters? It's. It's so original to this show, man. I feel like Hooligans was created because of something that was somewhere else. 92 Percenters is ours. You created up.

37:44 You created this nonsense that we all kind of believed that actually came true. And that's where we're at right now in life. We created this nonsense and. All right, Jonathan, so why, why did you play this clip? So because it makes absolutely no sense to anybody except for the people that are huge fans of the podcast. And that's the whole idea behind creating something that's special to the podcast. The 92 percenters. It's completely random. It's Jason's suggested success rate of this quarterback sneak. But it, it builds this jargon and this story that when you know, you know, but it doesn't take that much to get to know. So you feel like you can become a part of the community. And then when you're part of the community, you know about all the inside jokes and all the stuff that's special to the community.

38:42 And that helps you build a place where people belong. They feel like they belong and it grows a community when the podcast isn't even on. So when they're not, you know, it's just they there's something to talk about. So that's something that we should all figure out how to do. What do we call our communities? What do we, what things do we say that you know, we always say, you know, Mark, you're trying to get rid of your filler words, but maybe those are just something that you say and it becomes part of the culture of the podcast in morning chat. Yep, Yep. And, and look, I think in some ways by me calling it out and noticing when I say, there you go, right.

39:26 I, I think that deep down I know I'm doing that and I know what I'm doing is I'm creating a thing. When I say that, when I call it out up there it is again, right? Because then it's going to be something that people start to actually listen for, even subconsciously. You may not realize you're going to set out to do it, but I assure you, the more I talk about how I say there you go, the more you're going to notice it down the road. Drinking game. Drinking game. I don't care if it's early in the morning. Drinking game. Right. So, and, and there is something also to be said about what Jonathan's saying about the inside joke, because. We do talk about this from the other side of that coin.

40:08 We do say, you know, be careful because you have new listeners and doing the inside joke might turn them off. So what do you have to say to that, Jonathan? You and the inside joke might turn them off, or it might get them interested in learning more, and that's where you get a. If it's something that you make consistent and a part of your show, it can work. But you do have to be careful because it has to be easy enough for them to get. And I think that's what where 92 Percenters kind of works. I've listened to the podcast like, you know, 8 or 10 episodes of it. Like I get where it's coming from now, but I didn't at first.

40:49 But I feel like I'm an insider now. I'm cool now. Yeah, yeah. When they understand the reference, they feel like they're in on it, which I think then deepens their connection and it and their loyalty and is a feeling like they're a part of the show's community. So I do think there's a balance. I think the important thing is, is if you're going to call out an inside joke, if you're going to actually do the inside joke, I think it's important to share that with new people, even if you're just sharing that it is an inside joke, but just so that they don't feel completely out of the loop. But to your point, Jonathan, I agree with you. I think that it does create intrigue.

41:31 It creates curiosity for that new listener. And if they're enjoying the show and then they're hearing this inside joke on top of what they're already enjoying, that's another thing that keeps them coming back. They're going to want to maybe learn that inside joke or when they hear it the next time they're going to, it's going to be that light bulb, right? They're going to have that moment like, Yep, I remember hearing that the first time and being in the dark. But I get it now. And again, this is all a lot of this is going on subconsciously. I don't think people are all people are going through all those motions like I just explained, but that does happen. That is what's going on when it comes to the inside jokes.

42:11 Yeah, and, and you're right, it's all happening subconsciously. And there's so many things that we do in our podcast that trigger the subconscious of our listeners. And we've got to be aware of that when we're when we're doing it because, you know, it's a great way to hook people and get them truly obsessed over your content. Agreed. Yep. Thank you Jonathan and any, anything else about the show. So overall, I would say one of the biggest connections on the show is the community. When we when you look at why it's so successful, it's because they've built this community and there's people that are truly obsessed over it. They won't miss an episode. Leah's over here listening. She won't miss an episode or an episode of anything talking about it.

42:55 You know, there's just a connection and that's because of the community. And that's because they've done a good job building that community and using, you know, all the right triggers and making them feel like they belong and and giving them a sense, a way to be seen and heard. Because when it boils down to it, humans just want to be seen and heard. And when they when they call them out, when they show that they see them, that makes a big difference. And that's definitely the community. And then the other aspect we talked about it early on is the emotion, the connection, the real life, you know, chemistry between the two hosts. And it makes it feel like you're part of the family whenever you listen.

43:35 So those would be the two key elements. I think obviously you know the structure helps a little bit, but those are the key elements that make it obsession worthy. Yeah, thanks, Jonathan. And I think maybe what we can do to wrap up this conversation is to talk a little bit more about how you can help listeners feel more heard by intentionally creating moments where their their words, their voices shape the show or at least a segment in the show. So some things I think you can do first is invite their input. I think you want to ask a lot during a show for questions, stories, opinions. When there's an opportunity, don't force it, right? But when you're talking about something, a certain topic, stopping for a moment and asking people to share their take with you goes a long way.

44:33 And when you do hear from them, acknowledging them by name is very important. Shout outs, thank you's, call backs, it all shows that you're paying attention and I think it's important to respond publicly. Now, obviously, for those who maybe get lots of feedback, emails, messages from their audience, it might be hard to do, but as much as you can answer their messages, answer those emails and comments DMS on your show so that others can hear the engagement. And then also closing the loop if listeners give feedback or suggestions, mention how you applied it if if you did. I think another thing to consider is creating repeatable listener segments like what Jonathan's sharing from New Heights.

45:36 So regular spots like Listener Wins, Your Hot Takes, Mailbag Monday, all of that really it, how do I put it? It signals that their voice is part of the show's structure. And I think it's also important as host for us to show genuine curiosity, ask follow up questions, react authentically, share, share their perspectives, share that you value their perspectives. I think if you can follow these steps, I think you're on the right track to creating that obsession worthy style show. Anyone else have any other thoughts? I do this, it's a little easier for them because #1 they're brothers and #2 they're Co hosting with each other. But if you take a solo show, a lot of this is a little bit harder to do, I think.

46:48 Yeah, you want to expand further. Well, I mean, you know, who am I going to have an inside joke with? My computer? My cat. My cat's going to be. So first of all. You're a community doctor. Yes. First of all, yes, you can. Yeah, like Jonathan incorporates his dogs into his content. There's no reason why you can't incorporate your cat. And yeah, then people start becoming attached to the cats. I I think that is something. And again, I think that this goes back to also really envisioning that you have that avatar, that ideal audience member sitting across from you.

47:30 And you, Yeah, there is a bit of a theater of their mind for the hosts as well. You've got to pretend that you've got somebody across the the desk from you, that you're, you have this inside joke with you got to, you've got to develop that chemistry even when there isn't another person physically there with you. I think so. So Dr. In your case, when you do decide to record and publish, you could talk about your husband and the anecdotes that you have with your husband. Oh God. And I'm just saying like, you know, it sounds kind of silly, but I know there's probably things that happen when you're making your eggs or whatever it is that you guys are doing that would be good and relatable to that.

48:16 Yeah, I mean, there really is something to that. You know, my, one of my most popular episodes of my old show was the ones that when, when my wife and I were on a break, we were still dating at the time and we were on a break. Yes. And those were some of my most downloaded episodes because I was raw, real and sharing, sharing what I was going through. And and I think that there's something to be said about the episodes I share about when I'm struggling with my ADHD, right. And you can do this by yourself. You don't need people there with you like I have had the luxury of having when I've shared, say, about my ADHD or my struggles, getting that conference up and running for the end of September, this past September.

49:08 Like sharing these struggles helps you connect with your audience and vice versa. It could just be a whole segment on it. It could be called going to make the eggs and then just have an anecdote. I'm telling you this is the. Pride. That's riveting. I am telling you, you think it isn't riveting, but people like everybody, we're all doing the same type of things. You know, why is why is the Kelsey Brothers so riveting to people that are not involved with football? The teams that they're the teams that they like, it's because one, they're brothers, they're funny. Yes, there's the Taylor Swift connection, there's a whole bunch of stuff.

49:48 But at the end of the day, it's it's it's it's about common themes and. Alex, to your point, we do that already with Dr. and the eggs, right? Like I don't, I do that very intentionally. I don't have to stop and say DRS got to go make some eggs. So we'll continue on without her while she's doing that, right? Like, I don't have to talk about that, but it's now a thing, right? And the fact that Alex even called back to it, it's a thing on this show. It's not like a big thing, but it's it's a staple. It's something that we often call back to. Yeah. I think that this boils down to. And I, as I was going to say it, I'm like, oh, this sounds like AI, but that's OK. Because it's not about having better information on your show that makes your show different, better, unique, whatever word you want to use.

50:38 It's about it's about having better connection with your audience. That's what makes your show different or can make your show different than others is connecting with your audience, being real, being personal, sharing those vulnerable moments like Jonathan said. Yeah, and and when we look at these podcasts, it's about thinking outside the box too. We're not we don't need to be a football podcast. We don't need to do the things exactly the way that they do them. But Dr. we, you know, the eggs are a callback. The, you know, different things that we say are callbacks and those are the things that are building that community because believe it or not, people actually if you didn't do eggs one day during the news, we would be very concerned.

51:23 Like very concerned. So exactly. So there'd be a whole back story and there, you know, everybody be going crazy over it. So just thinking outside the box of what you can do, yeah. And here Bez says lol yes love the Dr. and eggs segment. It brings me a smile and gratitude of people in my family that make those small gestures. Gestures that I am grateful for. Thank you, Bez See, so that's just it with those moments like you can. I mean, if if you haven't picked up on it, Dr. thinks it's ridiculous that we're saying the eggs egg cooking is a thing on this show. But it is.

52:03 And that's the point. You might think it's silly, but people connect with it. They gravitate to it. They they feel like Bez. Maybe they feel gratitude. It reminds them of something in their family. Whatever those reasons are, just bringing in your personal life, your personal things, makes a big difference. I think this also goes back to an outline. I think people rely on certain things and and I think that that's there's something to be said for the stability or the consistency, not only of putting out issue episodes, but the consistency of the of the show itself. I think we'll have a familiarity with and that's what that's the good stuff. Yeah, and that's why when there are days that I'm not here and you all continue the show on, in my opinion, that's why when you guys come to me after and say, yeah, it was weird, it was different, it didn't feel the same, I don't think it was as good.

52:59 All those different types of excuses are shared. And that's not because I'm this amazing podcaster. It's because I bring that familiarity. And when it's pulled away, it feels weird. It feels different. So it's the same idea here. It's whether it's a segment, whether it's a host, whatever it is, people gravitate to the repetition and the familiarity. So you, you, what is the word I'm looking for now? You gravitating to that to only strengthens that connection between you and your audience. Jonathan, thank you for this segment. This was awesome and I would love to do this again soon. Maybe we can do this a couple times a month with you. That would be a lot of fun.

53:44 And we'll pick different shows. I know you've got a menu of shows, and maybe we'll find some other ones along the way and ask you to help help lead the dissection of what makes these shows obsession worthy. So thank you, Jonathan. Appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you. It was fun. And Dr. Hopefully you can get a sponsorship from the Egg Council. Never know Dr. Dear, that's DR's way of saying Nope, not going to do that. Well, thank you all and thank you everybody. Welcome back. Great to have you here on this Monday, the 1st day of December. We are back tomorrow, 7:00 AM Eastern talking more things, podcasting. So come join us then. And remember also Wednesday we're doing our news and comment.

54:25 Thursday is our evaluation episode. I will put in the show notes what podcast we will be evaluating. So check that out and we'll talk a little more about that tomorrow. So until then, make it a great day everybody, take care.