509. The Lie Keeping Podcasters Broke

0:06 Marc Ronick: Good morning May the Fourth be with you 2026 and today, creator monetization gets honest as we explore why so many talented podcasters stay broke despite consistently creating great content, and what it actually means to turn attention into income. So if you're listening live on clubhouse, hit the share button, top right hand side of the screen and share it And if you're catching us via please share this with a fellow podcaster. And now give us about 30 seconds and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here. The podcasting morning chat is powered by ironic media helping podcasters launch polish and grow great shows, and by content creators accountant helping creators build real business behind their content.

1:12 Good morning again. Podcasting morning chat, thank you so much. Thank you so much for being I am your host, Mark ronick and currently on stage with me, my co hosts, DR Fay, Ralph Estep, Alex Ballish, Sid meadows, Jonathan Howard and BC babbles. You can learn more about them at podcasting morning show.com/people, I knew I was going to say podcasting morning chat. I tried my hardest not to do it, and I did it.

1:53 Oh, well, I think that's probably why I did it. Because I was so focused on not doing it that, yeah, it just came. Are D.R. Fay: you still writing 2025 on your Marc Ronick: show. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that anymore, and I don't write I haven't written a check. D.R. Fay: It's been about 10 years since I've actually Marc Ronick: written a check, but I know what you mean. There are definitely times where I was dating the old rundowns early in the year with the wrong year. And by the way, happy Star Wars Day to you. I can't play a lot of different sounds, but you know, I'll play something for Star Wars day today. And speaking of the new change, the name change, the time change, my body is not on board yet with the new time.

2:40 I was up since about four Woke up naturally and I couldn't I was just laying there, not tossing and turning because I didn't want to wake my wife up. But I was just laying there, yeah, good hour. Plus trying to teach my body, this is the new time. You can sleep a little bit now, so we'll see how that goes. Hopefully it gets a little better each day. Ralph Estep Jr: Me too, Mark, used that time in the gym. I added another set to the weight training, so I made the time useful. Marc Ronick: I'm glad you did, Ralph, yeah, I got more of a workout in and more a more thorough workout in this morning than I normally do, because I had more time to play with this morning.

3:22 Yeah, so we'll see how it goes. Hopefully this new schedule is going to work for a lot of people. There are some new people in the expect to see more of that as we go here on the podcasting morning show. the wrong button, Ralph, but I'm jingle. Do you want your podcast featured on the podcasting morning show? Submit a 62nd clip about your show, something that gives people a real feel for your podcast. If we select it, we'll play your clip. It'll be it's fine if it's audio or video on a future episode, we'll share what stood out to us and introduce your show to our community of podcasters and creators.

4:11 Submit your clip now at podcasting morning show.com/spotlight and what I'm encouraging people to do is avoid just providing a random I just think that we'll we're commercials, if you will, right? So we want people to really get a sense of what your podcast is about. And yes, hopefully your clips are doing that for you, but I just feel like for what we're doing, we're going to first try with you the host, giving us a 62nd spiel about your podcast, who it serves, how it's helping them, where and when we can find it.

4:51 Et cetera. D.R. Fay: Like a trailer, Marc Ronick: yeah, similar to a trailer, although sometimes I know people will play a montage of clips with their trailers, but yeah. More like the tradition. National trailer that you'd see. We just want to try to keep it to around 60 seconds, which, Ralph, I know you had said was challenging. You were practicing yourself just to see what it would be like for a content creator to submit, and you found it challenging to keep it within 60 Ralph Estep Jr: I did, but I'm a each of them. So it was actually great because I went back and redid all of my trailers. Because when I went back and was a lot heavier then, so I re recorded them and did new videos, and we're posting those this week.

5:32 So it was sort of a good exercise for me, because I just look a lot better now. Marc Ronick: Congratulations, Ralph on all the weight loss. It's awesome to see. And like I've said, You've shared some older content with us in the past, and it just blows me away the transformation that you've gone through. So yeah, kudos to you. Congratulations to you, sir. All right, so that's the Spotlight Series. Hopefully you are interested. This is no cost to you to do it either. It's just a service that we're providing to our community. So if that's of interest to you, you want to try to get more eyes and ears on your podcast. I think that's a great way to do means we're handing the reins to Ralph.

6:15 Next week, we'll be back with our obsession, worthy podcast series. More to come on what that's all about. into today for Money Monday? Ralph Estep Jr: Oh, fantastic. And welcome everybody. Good morning on this new time. It was nice to be up and the sun was already up. That was a beautiful thing. But yeah, today I want to start off with a true or false to chime in with their responses And here's the question, if you make great content, the money will eventually come. That's the question, if you make great content, the money will eventually come. Who believes that's true? Who believes that's false, and who believes it's somewhere in the middle?

6:55 Marc Ronick: I think it could be And I think I shared a little bit about my own personal journey on Friday, I think it was that I was talking about the fact that I know that I fell into the content creation trap, right? Because it is a trap, in my opinion, and I think to me, for a long time, especially in the first half of my business, right? So I started ironic media in 2020 and I'd say the first three years or so, I got super feeling like I got to just keep making great content. I got to put out as much content as I can, because eventually, one of these videos, one of these posts, is going to go off and 1000s of people are going to find me, it's going to skyrocket my business, my sales, and everything's going to be glorious. And I'm still waiting for that, still waiting for that to happen.

7:51 Ralph Estep Jr: I think that's Mark is, I think a lot of people dive into it because they hear a lot of people say, Well, if I'm consistent, if I just put out the content, magically, money is going to appear. But I want to hear from other people, because my people, because Mark, I agree with you. I don't think you can just put it out there and assume it's just going to boom, here Marc Ronick: it is. Yeah. Well, all right, let's go to BC, and then Dr wants to chime in. Go ahead. BC, Junaid: yeah. BC Babbles: Good morning, everyone. So I was going to say in the middle, leaning towards the false side of that, so it's similar to what Mark was saying. For instance, I just wrote an article from someone who made writing on sub sect, eventually their full time gig there as a content creator, but they're the nuances of their journey was that I'm so sorry. I've got a really loud Labrador next to Marc Ronick: me. That's okay, BC Babbles: so any non human sounds is not me. The nuance of her journey, and what's inspired me is that she had to post consistently for months before she saw the traction.

8:45 So great content plays a role. No question, you want, you want to create stuff and send out stuff that's aligned with who you are, what you want to accomplish, and of course, the audience that wants to help find those solutions. But it's I think about putting so much of yourself out there consistently that's aligned, that eventually the algorithm of whatever platform you're on simply says, there's no question about it, this is the person for that, and so therefore the audience has eventually shown their way to you. Marc Ronick: Thank you. BC, fair point, and I want to keep it moving and go to Dr. Dr, what say you D.R. Fay: Well, I'm going to say not necessarily. You know, you can have the best content in the world and still not be on people's feeds, still not get that traction, still not get those eyeballs or earballs, and that's why you know organic discovery and also paid discovery. I mean, let's face it, paid discovery is valid. Marc Ronick: I think it depends how you're using it, right, like there are.

9:55 I mean, I'm not going to say any way is invalid, but I know that like for. Example. And maybe Jonathan can chime in on this, if he wants to, but I know that oftentimes we as creators are discouraged to boost posts, boosting posts on platforms like Instagram, for example, where you can just pay to have that post seen, but seen by more people, right get more visibility on it. But what I have found, and what others have found, is that, yeah, it gives that post a boost, but it doesn't do anything for content after that new content that you're D.R. Fay: putting. Yeah, I was thinking. I was thinking of advertising on players, like those banner overcast, and because you can podcast players, Marc Ronick: yeah, I think true advertising, like meta ads or like a service like overcast, where you can advertise on other platforms, I think that those are great ways to do it if you have a budget for it.

10:58 D.R. Fay: Yeah, exactly. Ralph Estep Jr: I'm worried that I'm concerned about, yeah, and I don't think it's just discover. So I want to make sure we're not just talking about discovery, because it's one thing for people to know you're there. It's another thing. Does that put money in your pocket? So I just want to add that to our conversation as we go, because it's real easy to revert rates I got that's great, but if it's not giving you any money So I want to continue the conversation, but I want to steer it a little bit mark, yeah, because my goal was to get to what works to actually drive revenue dollars in the door. Marc Ronick: That's fair, and I appreciate you jumping in. And Gabe in the chat says it's there's been zero traction with ads in in his past experiences.

11:46 for a lot of people, too. And I think that it's also about knowing really how to do it right. Like meta ads makes it seem easy, but once you start using it, there's a lot you have to know about and that's why I brought in somebody to my team at ironic media, to really, who really specializes in that? Because I know that Sure. I know a little bit, but I think I know just enough to be dangerous and not in a good way. And I Ralph Estep Jr: actually have a different experience, like I've used overcast ads, and they work great for me. Yeah, in fact, I just launched one, and my podcast downloads in the last three days have tripled. So you know, there is but again, is that putting money in my pocket?

12:27 Can I get more people to Going to get more people to listen to the episode or watch the episode? Yes, but does that put money Junaid: in my Marc Ronick: pocket? Fair enough? And Jody in the chat, I'm actually maybe you can read hard time. Jody's is actually an old friend, an old clubhouse friend, for that matter, but she's actually over on YouTube right now. Ralph, can you read that? Are you able to Ralph Estep Jr: I'm trying Hold on a second. It says, Oh, okay. Says, Oh, I see my responses are Marc Ronick: Not that one, Ralph Estep Jr: All I see is, I got it. Marc Ronick: I got it. Oh, Ralph Estep Jr: you got it. I Marc Ronick: got it here. Sorry. the community, your super fans content needs to be good, but Yeah, thank you. Jody Kringle, appreciate that.

13:13 And Alex, I saw you wanted to chime in as well. Alex Ballish: Fortunately, you head. The fact is, if you have nothing to sell, nobody's going to buy it. I don't care if you have a bazillion downloads or not. It doesn't matter if they it's a sponsor, whether it's is. If you start, and I know this might be, you know, people may like this, may not, downloads are important, don't get me wrong, but that's not how you're making your money. You're making your money through product. And I know too many broke podcasters that are quote, unquote successful and they don't have any money. Why?

13:55 Because they don't have anything to sell. That's the problem. People want to podcast, but they don't want to make it a business. And when it comes to discoverability, how many times you talk about your podcast today? How many times do you actually talk to people about what you sell? And I think that's the biggest problem. A lot of times, podcasters just are afraid to talk about it's like a secret. Well, don't make it a secret. Be the podcast person that you want to be and give them a reason to earn your you know, for you to earn their dollars. Marc Ronick: I think this is very fair, by the way. Shout out to rich Perry and Jason sir cone in the audience as well. My business partners for empowered podcasting.

14:35 Very cool to see you guys here at 8am I know that again, as I said, we're going to probably start seeing more people joining us in the mornings now that we've bumped up the time to 8am and I see our video chat is also, or at least our video viewers are also up from days past when we were doing it at 7am so that's really cool to see. Thank you Ralph Estep Jr: and Mark, I want to applaud what Alex just said. Marc Ronick: I was just going to Ralph Estep Jr: Oh, my God, put a big hug around you, That is precisely where I was trying to go with this. If you don't have something to sell, if you're not offering a service, you are never going to make any money from your podcast. Now that said, there are a lot of people out there that are podcasting as a hobby.

15:18 That's cool. That's not what I'm talking about today, but I just say, Alex, fantastic, very brilliant observation. Because the thing, as I work with more content creators, I'm finding is people feel icky about promoting themselves. And guess what, if you don't promote yourselves routinely, no one is going to buy your stuff, because you need to reinforce that and say it. Alex Ballish: But the thing is, Ralph, you have to have something to sell, and that's And I look at, you know, because you got, you got Billy in the room, who started, got a huge sponsorship deal. And he had, like, two, you know, he wasn't, quote, unquote successful for his fishing show, and he got a sponsorship deal because he knew the deal. Marc Ronick: And by that you mean really, just like, it wasn't like he had 10s of 1000s of Alex Ballish: dollars, 10s of 1000s of episodes.

16:06 He had less than, if I'm mistaken, and you can put in the chat bill, I think it was like less than 200 or 400 episodes. The other thing is, even if you do have this stuff, it still may not work. My what is from CAST, we had all this other stuff, and it was It was still hard. And we had stuff that were numbered, that were, you know, again, it was a niche podcast. But I do believe that the biggest problem is, and this is what people have to understand, whether you're a nonprofit or for profit, or build to pulling the trigger to something. So if you have this podcast, even the podcast, morning show, we are building to something.

16:50 What is it? The conference, you know, everything is towards that. And I think that people have to map out their episodes and their year a lot better. And I'm saying this when I'm in a glass house, and I need to do this for myself. What is the goal, the eventual goal of what you're trying to do with the podcast when it comes to monetization, that's the that's the whole issue of this. Ralph Estep Jr: hold on sec. I want to take it back one step, though, because I think it's bigger than that. I think there's an intentionality and asking, what is your audience? What are their needs? Because maybe the issue where merchandise doesn't work is because your audience doesn't work merchandise. So you've got to really lean into what is my audience coming for? What are their pain points?

17:34 What do they need? That's where your offer is going to work. Alex Ballish: Absolutely no. I'm not saying that I have all the answers because I don't, because clearly, you know, Billy, with four episodes and four 400 downloads, not the reverse of that knows better than I do, but yeah, no, you have to figure out what exactly they need. And also, when something doesn't work, it doesn't mean that it's a failure. Just means you have to re pivot and and I think that that's the other thing. I know this stuff costs money, it's hard, it's hard to spend money, but you know it also it's nice to make money, too. Marc Ronick: Thank you, Alex, yeah. I mean, look, I think that that's been an area for me, with through the years of doing the podcasting, morning chat now show. But yeah, I've struggled with that. I've had a hard time coming up with offers, right?

18:23 talking about, and yes, you're Alex, like the the Empowered podcasting conference is definitely one of those big offers that's recurring that I talk about. And yeah, we work toward that. We hope to get a lot of this community over to that in person event. But other than that, as far as my business, ironic media, other podcasters either produce them with whatever their goals doing. I don't have any special offer. I'm not offering yet any mastermind groups or any types take more advantage of the that's something Alex Ballish: I'm trying to fix, but see that's but I think you're also not seeing that you're an expert in your field. So just by you presenting yourself that, I mean, if anything, if podcasting showed me, anything, it showed me this from going to empower podcasting, as well as pod fest, there is a mic for every topic.

19:26 look at this room. Who the heck wants to talk about furniture? Sid wants to talk about furniture. I knew nothing about that before. I had a friend of mine in the furniture business, and I actually got her onto that. I mean, got her to listen to his podcast, because nobody else talks about that. There's people that talk about all sorts of different things. And I think that to your point, yes, you don't have a lot to offer, and you haven't been offering in quotes, but at the same time, being an expert in your field, that's your niche. And I think we as podcasters and as solopreneurs. Are entrepreneurs have a hard time boasting what we do, and that's not a you problem. That's an entrepreneur And then there's people like Ralph that are the opposite.

20:09 I mean, that most loving way possible. Ralph, Marc Ronick: yes, okay, thank you for putting me in the expert category, and I don't think that makes me an exception, because my business is hurting. I have. the past year, plus promoting offers, doing all those little I had my worst sales year this Alex Ballish: What I'm saying is sales, instead of the sales using fueling the podcast. That's my point. Ralph Estep Jr: Hey, this is a great, actually moment to pivot a little bit mark, because I want to lean into what you just said, because what we're basically saying, I think all of us are consensus, content isn't enough. It's one thing to put out content. What else has to exist for creator to make money? And I think that's where I'd like to take the conversation next, because it's not just the content, it's the audience, it's trust, it's offers, it's those relationships. Because what you just said, Mark, and I don't mean to put you on the spot, but you are honest about it. You say, Wait a second, I have my worst year ever, but I would argue that you have great content. So why is there still a struggle? What is the point that we've got to try to drive this and honestly, for the audience, this is something Mark and I talk about probably three days a week, right? Right?

21:24 Mark. I mean, this is a constant conversation, and that's why I talk about this today, because feel the same way that Mark like Alex feels, but what is it? What is the next step? So once you've got that remarkable content down, what is the next step? Marc Ronick: Great question. BC, you want to chime in. BC Babbles: I wonder if it's in because, and I'm trying to reflect on with the time that and I'm not sure I've seen this from you, just to kind of working with your situation. Are you offering low risk opportunities once you've professionally, like, for like, go to Mark eronic for calls for first time, Yeah, I do that enough. I don't promote that enough.

22:16 I have on occasion, but I'm not promoting that nearly as much, and I appreciate what you're saying. Yeah, having that low ticket option for people would make a lot of sense, and I'm not promoting it enough. In mind, you see the grandeur of Mark ronnick, plus, you know, again, we're leading into EP three this year. So this kind of creates the not illusion, but this the picture of everything you are in is kind of a growing grand So that's probably going to subconsciously establish this thought of, ooh, high ticket cost, high there's like, there's for any prospective potential client for you.

22:57 So I wonder if that's step in if Ralph Estep Jr: that's and BC, I would just and BC, I would just interject this, because I think there's an obstacle here that we haven't talked about, and that is, who is the audience, and is the audience searching for that low ticket item? I would argue that our audience isn't. Because I would argue that most of our audience here are people who have been doing podcasting for a while. So I would push back a little bit on that. BC, if the audience were different, if this was mostly new podcasters, but when I look at who's in the chat room, when I look at who's on clubhouse, when I look at who's joining us on the YouTube and all that, these are not new These are existing podcasters. I don't disagree with you.

23:39 BC, but I think it's real easy to chase after the low hanging fruit with the $29 offers. And I see a lot of people push pushing that, but I honestly think there's an opportunity to do something different, but it's a great observation, but I just think that we have to be and that's why, when I talked about knowing your audience, understand where your audience is and what they need. So because that's what you got to tell your offer too. Like Mark and I have talked about more bringing in affiliate income, because I honestly feel like that's a huge opportunity. Because when somebody like Mark or somebody like me or other people here on the shows, a lot of you are professionals, right? When we say, hey, use this product, that's a huge amount of trust. There's a relationship that we have with the audience.

24:22 So it's not always well, let me have this simple offer, because there are a ton of content in affiliate income. There's a ton of content creators that have simple offers and downloads. But BC, I'm not trying to mitigate what you said, I just think we have to be aware of who our audience is and what the audience is actually looking for BC Babbles: agreed? Marc Ronick: Yep. Thank you. Ralph and Billy is on stage. Billy. And Billy knows a thing or two about affiliate and UGC stuff. So Billy, good morning. this? Billy: Good morning, Mark. Congratulations on the new changes. Thank you, changes in time. So one thing I you know, one thing I. Thinking about because I run a community, and I help other content creators monetize and but I came at content creation with an entrepreneurial mindset, not a content creator mindset.

25:10 And so I think this is way too different places and positionings, because a lot of people come into the game is like, Oh, I'm passionate about this topic, or this, you know, subject, or whatever. I want to talk about it, and I want to create this content, and then monetization, and actually turning this into a business becomes the whole this is a ton of work. What I get myself into, I'm spending all this time and a lot of content creators, you have there's all this scale conversation, but they have no skill. So it's like a lot of content creators need to press the pause button and get skill, skill, skill, so they can scale, scale, scale. And it drives me insane to hear podcasters get on, get on this show, get on other shows, and say there's no opportunity in this, you know, market. Nobody wants to sponsor my show, nobody wants to do anything, but and then they look at me.

26:03 No offense to you, Alex, but they go, but look what Billy's done. He had 400 downloads and four episodes, but you didn't see the two shows I started before that failed. You didn't see the 15 years I put into developing sales skills so I could actually map the pitch to go to companies and pitched out a different opportunity that was, frankly, different than what I was offered in the podcasting world. When I got into podcasting after 2020 I got into it as a business, and was told by people who've been doing this for two decades, you can't do this as a business. You got to do this for 510, years. You got to eat beans and rice and kill your family and sell them to, you know, people in was told the craziest stuff that podcaster. And you know what?

26:49 The only difference between me and people who didn't make any money in content is I didn't believe the blogs and the vlogs and everything else, and every guru I listened to, and sorry to podcasting expert that said, yeah, that $10,000 per episode, they had all one thing in common, a full time job. I didn't have that luxury. I lost a business in 2020 I needed to start another business. And so I think there's a lot of excuses in this game, and if somebody like me who had no real presence on the Internet can come five years ago and make six figures year after year in profit, not what the business made, not what I am talking in profit for the business, then I think anybody can do it.

27:34 And if you've been this game for 1015, years, or five or six years, there's not really a problem probably with your content. It's your other skills that are lacking. So it's like, I hate when people just put me on a pedestal and go, Oh, Junaid: Billy, Billy: no, it's okay, Alex. I mean, it happens you're not the only person, you're not the only person, Alex Ballish: but Billy: it's a lot of work. Alex Ballish: What I wanted to doing, and you did it. You did the work. I wasn't trying to say you're one hit wonder. I'm saying you understood the game, and you know how to play the game. That was my point. By No, Billy: no, no, no, no. What I did was made a was made 500 sales calls and got told 499 That's what I did. That's the word that people aren't willing to put in, but then they want to cry because they put so much work in on editing, but they can't get a sponsorship deal, Junaid: right?

28:28 Alex Ballish: No, I'm just That was my point. It wasn't that, it wasn't that you just were an overnight success. No, I I don't want you. I don't want anybody to think that. I think, Oh, well, just Billy just woke up one morning and did it? No, I know you. You bust your butt every day, and that was what it was more praise than it was what Sid usually gives you. Ralph Estep Jr: What Billy said, is saying. And Billy fantastic way to say, a dude, refine your skills. Be intentional about selling. That's the thing. I think a lot of content creators build attention, they build these relationships, but they haven't built the value. They haven't understood what it's like to have a mentality as an entrepreneur.

29:11 And Billy, you nailed it. There are a ton of coaches. There are a ton of people out there in the podcasting and content world that are talking about, well, just keep on doing content. Just keep on bringing up your content, but if you're not learning how to sell yourself, if you're not learning how to sell those things, you are going broke, that's what's going to happen. And so Billy dude, I commend you for what you said, because what you said is, I'm going to do the hard work, I'm going to put in the time, I'm going to run this like a business, because that's because I got to put food on the table. And I think a lot more content a business, you got to think right that what who we see doing times, this is a sideline thing. This is a side hustle.

29:53 If you want to be serious about it, then you got to take your approach and go get that sales training. Go spend time. Understanding how to make money, how to build value, how to sell yourself, how to hear no, like you said 500 times, Billy, but keep on doing it. So dude, I just commend you That is that is a brilliant observation. Marc Ronick: Shout out to Steve Cofer, longtime community member who normally doesn't join us. Live in the mornings, but I think the 8am time has got his butt here. So great to see you, Steven. And Steven says in the YouTube chat, ultimately, myself and my co host are, what are?

30:33 After two years of running our show, we have some sponsors, but our primary monetization has come from booking production and performance performer gigs. And of course, he is, just for those who don't know, he and his are stunt performers in Hollywood and elsewhere. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And he goes on to say, this is a marathon, not a sprint, like Billy, we went into this to be a business and push our brand. Our business is much larger than the podcast. Good to hear that. And Sid wanted to chime in as well. Go for it. Sid, Sid Meadows: good morning.

31:15 Sid Meadows: Thoroughly enjoyed Billy and Alex, so glad it wasn't me, simply always me and Billy go, Marc Ronick: Yes, Billy: I can make your dreams Sid Meadows: I'll remove you So this D.R. Fay: has Sid Meadows: been a really fascinating conversation on a lot of different fronts, right? that Ralph touched on a minute uprising event, there were a lot podcast, and I was sharing what I had done, I was sharing my monetization strategy, how I did great questions and so but when I talk, when people ask me about this, and I talk them, and I ask them follow up questions, who's your audience? A lot of times I get blank stares, like, tell me who your audience is, what are the problems that they're they're dealing with, and then how does your show solve that problem?

32:09 I think so many content Miss that that's the core of who your audience is, what are how does your show solve those And when you can articulate that and really understand it, then you immediately know who has could use, and if you know all identify the people who have could use. That's your sponsorship pool of people go get sponsors that provide a solution, if you don't to what the what your problems are that your ideal listeners deal with. And I think that's just basic foundation stuff that you have to get covered.

32:54 Marc Ronick: And I see your here, flashing all sorts of fire Nice to see you two agreeing. And, yeah, great points. Sid, Ralph, did you want Ralph Estep Jr: to reply? And I just, I just think that. So let me ask you something else. How many of you have spent years working on content, but we're thinking about monetization, because I think that's part of the problem here, too. I think that you've got to start out with the end in mind. And before you record a thing, I think you need to think through what does this look like? Why am I doing this? If you're doing this for monetization, then you got to change your entire trajectory of what you're doing, because if you don't have an audience, then just going along with what Sid said, let's say you're starting out you don't have an audience, but you realize there's a need, and you then you have to build the audience around the people who have that need.

33:47 So that's the thing. Like, I think you got to start off with at the front end of this, what am I trying to accomplish? If you're trying to go out there and get a bunch of vanity metrics and downloads, that's fantastic, but you're going to stay broke doing that. Marc Ronick: Jonathan, you're Mike, did you want to chime in? Or is that? No? That an accident? Jonathan Howard: Oh, crap. I will agree with what Sid was saying. You got to get the foundation for the business and treat it like a business. It's a business set. And then if you have something that you offer that can solve the problem, make sure that you talk about it during your podcast. Because that's, I mean, I started making money off episode one of my podcasts because I offer what it's part of my offerings, and that's something I talk about almost every episode. You can get this from me.

34:30 It's in every show notes. So it's a great way to just start monetizing right off the bat, if you have that solution for that problem. Ralph Estep Jr: Hey, Jonathan, let me follow up with that and ask you a question. So why do you think creators avoid the business side? Because you just said it. You said, Listen, I intentionally went into the with But I think a lot of content creators avoid that. Why do you think they avoid that? Jonathan Howard: I think a lot that they're purposely avoiding it's that they're not understanding how things go. things go like you've got to You've got to figure out what You need to make sure that your podcast is speaking to those issues. Because a lot of people, they want to talk about something, so they talk about something, and then they don't have a product that supports that, something that they're talking about, and it just doesn't line up.

35:21 Ralph Estep Jr: I agree with Jonathan Howard: you. They like to create pretty things. Ralph Estep Jr: I agree with that's because a lot of people Well, if you have a passion for something, go talk about it, and then all of a sudden people are going to throw money at you. Yeah, if you build an audience of several 100,000 people, then you might be able to take to make money with ads, like that's just a race for the bottom. In my opinion, you want that CPM for every $1,000 every 1000 downloads, I'm gonna come in a second, Alex, but I just think it's a day you're getting into a situation where you're just trying to play out how many people can download my show so that I can get, you know, 20 cents per 1000 or $20 per 1000, whatever that turns out to be, and you're just chasing the bottom for this passion, but if you're really looking to make money with your content, then you got to have a different approach. Marc Ronick: Alex, did you want to chime in? Alex Ballish: Yeah, the problem is they don't know how to do it.

36:11 Okay? You know, Billy made a really good point. Running a business being a solo it's really easy to collect a check every week, isn't it? You know better than anybody, Ralph, when you see all your clients, it's really easy to be a w2 employee. It's hard being an entrepreneur, don't know how to ask and they They need to go buy a book and figure it out. And I'm not talking about anybody in this room. I'm talking about myself, because I've been an entrepreneur my whole life, and it's hard getting knows. And that's the problem, especially when you have a podcast that's very close to your heart, like if it's a if it's a cause or something else, and then somebody is going to tell you no. That's like a child that they're saying no to. So it's not as easy as this or that? The bottom line is you got to start pounding the paving, babies and shaking the hands, to people. Ralph Estep Jr: I agree, Alex, that is a brilliant observation, and this is the case with not just content creators. I see this every day with clients who maybe you are a good plumber, and you decided I want to start my own plumbing house.

37:22 I want to start my own plumbing company. But if you don't have that entrepreneurial mindset, if you don't have that intentionality at the front end, that's why people struggle, and that's why people love the w2 job, because they don't have to think outside the box. Well, guess what? If you're going in the content creation to make money for big outside the box, and you've got to have an intention now that I need to go get sales skills. I need to go get business skills. I need to go get those entrepreneurial skills. And I think you're absolutely right, Alex, I think there aren't many, and this is why I launched a content creators accountant. To be blunt, there aren't a lot of people out there that are talking about this. They're talking about the technical side of hey, use this microphone, use this editing software, do these things. But people are still broke.

38:10 They're broke because no one is saying to them, what is your plan to build a money side of this? How are you going to make money with this? Because guess what? I truly believe most people burn out in podcasting. If they're looking forward to it They burn out because they're not getting anywhere with it. The money isn't coming in because they bought into this approach. Well, if I just put content out there, I'm going to be the next Joe Rogan. I'm going to be the mess mix Mel Robbins, and I'm going to make, you know, millions of dollars. Well, guess what? Those people busted their rear ends to get to that point. And you know what they all have in common? They have an entrepreneurial backbone. They have they went out and found the people to show them how to make money with their content. I'm sorry I'm getting a little bit charged up, but this is a passion for me, because I see how much time and effort and love and all the blood, sweat and tears people put into their content and they're still broke because no one has said to them, Hey, what is your monetization plan? How are you trying to build money with your content?

39:11 You can talk on a microphone. That's fantastic. That's not going to make a nickel for you. What is your monetization strategy? And Alex, I think you're right. I think it's a lack of knowledge. I think people just don't have the knowledge. I think some of it's fear too, because I think a lot of people are fearful, and I'm gonna stop talking so other But you know, I think it's easy to hide behind the content. It's real easy to say, Well, I'm gonna come up with these topics for this week, and I'm gonna and if I just keep doing it, that people are gonna come and gonna start throwing money at me. Listen to me. They're not going to throw money You've got to have an intentional monetization strategy. And everybody's is different. What feed you might not feed me, but have that strategy in place at the front end. Marc Ronick: I'm using that to do a transitional sound, instead of the usual whoosh in honor of Star Wars Day. Hey, do you want more visibility for your podcast or your business or your brand inside of the Empowered podcasting community, we're opening up, and we have opened up 10 spots for the official EPC creator partners. So as a creator partner, your content will be shared on empowered podcasting social channels. You'll be featured in an interview on empowered podcasting live, and your podcast or business will receive visibility through the Empowered conference materials. Your package also includes a ticket to empowered podcasting 2026 in Charlotte.

40:40 So even if you've already bought your ticket, this could be what a lot of our Creator partners are doing is using that ticket to give to one of their followers, one of their fans, one of their clients. So this is for creators who want to be more involved, more visible and more connected as we continue growing EPC, there are only, I was going to say there are only 10 spots available, but there are less than that, probably around four or five, I believe I know is rich still here. Rich could probably put in the chat. How many spots are left? So contact me. Mark at ironic media.com. I R, O N, I C, K, and we will get you all the details. We'll hook you up with rich or just go to empowered podcasting.com/sponsors, and you can fill out the form that pops up there and be a part of the Creator program, or at least inquire about the Creator program.

41:33 Okay, so let's keep it moving. There were several people that wanted to chime in. see Junaid is on stage as well, so we'll go to Janae too. Sid, what do you got for us? Sid Meadows: Yeah, in my convention that I was at, and this is what I wanted to say, is really, really good, but what we have to stop is the people spreading the misinformation. There's so many people spreading misinformation about what you can what you can't do with your podcast. When I was at this at the uprising last week or week before last, now, there was a podcast editor there, and he told someone he was on a walk with me. He told someone that in order to episode. I didn't know that until later, and the guy came up to me on this hike we were on, said, Hey, can I talk to you about your podcast?

42:26 And I said, Sure, we just started talking about it. And he's the CEO of a really cool company, and they have a podcast. They're transitioning to a different host, and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And anyways, we were talking monetization, and he told me that phrase, my response was, that's a lie, and that guy's on crap, because it's not true. And that's so many people are spreading this CPM. You have to do this. You got to have 5000 downloads. And we, those of us that disagree with that philosophy, our voices have to be louder about that to drown out that noise. Because, in my opinion, that's misinformation. Yeah, well, that's what that Meadows: absolutely, yeah. And then there was another guy that I talked to that owns a comic book company.

43:07 They bake comic books and produce comic books, and they have comic books in every comic book shop around the world, and they have a their comic books. And he was talking about podcast monetization. That's why, because he has a podcast. It's about 500 downloads per episode. advertising as part of the And he looked at me and like, I'd never thought about that. I'm like, just add it, add X amount of dollar to whatever you want to add to it, and then sell it. And so he called me the other day and we had a chat, and his that's exactly what he did. They pivoted. His sales guy has now made a full package that you have this opportunity to sponsor, to begin an ad in everything that they're doing in their entire ecosystem.

43:49 So all that to say the opportunity exists. But those believe differently about ways you can make money have to be louder and stop the people from spreading misinformation and lies. Marc Ronick: Thank you. Sid, and I particularly appreciate that line that you said about all of us have to be a lot louder about proving those that common advice least the advice is improved. downloads. That was the buzz number that everybody used. You got to have 10,000 downloads a month, at least, in order to monetize and in order to get a sponsor. And like we said, Sid is living proof. You do not have to have that many, not even close, for that matter.

44:32 So yeah, thank you, Sid for that. BC, I know you want to chime in. Give me one second. Junaid has been waiting on stage, and then we'll come to you. Go ahead, Junaid, good morning. Junaid: Good morning. Good morning. Love the new name and the new energy that this episode or podcast is now bringing. Because based on this this conversation alone, I think I'm shutting down my podcast. Marc Ronick: What Junaid: I'm shutting down my podcast to start a new one. Or maybe keep it going, I don't know, but I do realize that the journey that I've been on for the past eight years has taught me something that I would not have learned if I hadn't gone down that journey.

45:13 But what I'm realizing is that, no, I do not have any offers or selling on the current podcast, because it is an interview based podcast. selling? What is Junaid selling? Right? What does that look like? That's the conversation that I Actually, I've been having it, but I've been holding myself back from starting a new podcast focused on just what I do with home studios. And I think this conversation has kicked me in the butt to say, hey, Junaid, you got to go down that path, because if you don't do it, nobody's else is going to do that for you. So thank you so much. Appreciate it. Marc Ronick: You're welcome.

45:54 And I Ralph Estep Jr: just want to jump in there for a second, because Junaid, you have nailed it. And I put in the chat, stop running a podcast and start running a business. And I think that's what you're realizing Junaid, and Junaid and I have worked together. Junaid has an excellent skill set, and Junaid could turn that into a very profitable business. And you notice I didn't use the word podcast. I said business. In my personal view, your podcast should support your business. It's a marketing arm of your I think we've got things cattywampus upside down. We do these podcasts. We need to build businesses. We don't need to build podcasts. We need to build businesses. And businesses are then our podcast becomes the marketing arm of that. Our content creation becomes the marketing, our sub stack, our shorts, our reels are all just marketing arms of the business.

46:42 we can change today. Marc Ronick: Thank you, Ralph. BC, you wanted to chime in. Go for it. BC Babbles: Yeah, I want to And I think part of the reason pushing their business through realize that where they are and where their podcast is, they're not in the same space. And what I mean by that is that, and personally, I realized that my podcast, and what I've envisioned it to be is further business wise. So the predominant part of my background is marketing. Now I just came out with my masters, you know, I offer content strategy and different service management or different kind of media management.

47:24 But it was suggested to me, actually, at EP two last year, that I turned my show into a Marketing Show to better sell my marketing services. But I found that what I contemplated the idea of turning my show into a Marketing Show, as opposed to an entrepreneur's source for business news and market pivots and all those things, I felt it was too much of a of a size down for the show. And it was after some contemplation that I realized I have a desire for a pivot, personally and professionally, to elevate from marketing into more of a network and partnership advisory kind of love to not only network and when I find people that have like to connect them, and I like And so I kind of realized that of my career than I currently am And so what that kind of obstacle for me is that, well, I don't want to reduce what my show is to just marketing, if I want to, if I'm finding that it's actually further along than myself, if that makes sense, Marc Ronick: yeah, that does make a BC Babbles: lot of congestion.

48:40 Marc Ronick: Yes, if you're gestures coming from VC, yeah. flying all the time when I'm back to you. Ralph Estep Jr: Yeah. I just want to say this. I think the thing we have to realize is great content builds attention. We have to start there. We got to have great content. But attention alone isn't going to create income for you. I love some of the things that like Jodi kngle Put in the thing, you know, she said that that's what I have my podcast for to support my business. After all, people don't care about sound. They're not going to hire a voice over talent. So that's what Jody's done. She's already understood that you got to go and find what do people need, what do people around that. It's not just attention.

49:25 Income comes from intentional value, and that's the one take I want to give everybody today. What is the value you're giving to your listeners, to your viewers? Most creators don't fail because they lack talent. They fail because they never build a business. And that's what we need to do. We need to change the perspective here and start building a business, and start thinking about what is my business first, once you lay out here's my business, then you build the content around the business, not the other way around. I think that's the problem. A lot of people build their. Content first, and then they build a business around it. I think you've got to flip the script, and you got to build your business and you build the content around it.

50:07 Just think about if you went and opened up a hot dog stand today, right? podcast. Probably right. But what you might do is you might have an intentionality, well, I need to start talking about hot dogs and how great they are. And there's different styles of hot dogs. And if you go to Chicago, you get this kind of girl. But that's not your intention. Your intention was, I want people to come and buy my hot dogs. So then the marketing, the podcasting, all the other things And I think that's the problem. I think that we've got this, we've got the script caddy, Wampus upside down. So my one thing, if you hear nothing else that, that I think we've talked about today, that I've said clearly, is have an intentionality for business. What is my intention?

50:47 to measure that too. Because that's one things we haven't talked a lot about, what does success look like? What does that measurement look like? Because if you don't have an intention at the front end of, how am I going to measure the success? And if you're in there to make money, guess how you know how you know? How you measure that, not by revenue dollars, by what you get to keep. Let's talk about that for a second. It's what you get to keep. Because listen, you can go and build a ton of content, you stuff. You can all those things, but you can spend and spend and spend, and maybe you're bringing But I always challenge content creators. Okay, that's great. That's fantastic. You made $10,000 last month. What did you keep? Well, not much. Ralph, there's the problem. That's part of your And I know I went a little bit, little bit haywire passionate today, but this is a passion of me, of mine, because I see so many people struggling here, and much. If they would just sit down with somebody, sit down with somebody you trust.

51:41 Sit down with a coach. Because here's the thing, you don't see it when you're in it yourself. A lot of times you've got to bring somebody else in and say, Hey, look at this. For me, I'm working on monetization audits with content creators right now. And just like Sid said, he mentioned this to his friend, that he's going to start doing advertising or start doing sponsorships. Sometimes you don't see it because you're living in it. So challenge yourself. Go ask other people, how would you monetize this? What are the different things I should do? But have an intentionality in that. Marc Ronick: Thank you. Ralph, way to take it home for us. Yeah, Alex Ballish: Jonathan, the poor guy's been waiting like soon. Marc Ronick: Thank you. I appreciate you seeing that. Go ahead, Jonathan, did you have it's all good.

52:24 content creators fail because And I think that's something that's really important. You gotta put out value, but you have to be memorable. Yeah, that's just Marc Ronick: so that's Jonathan Howard: really important. Marc Ronick: Yeah, that's kind of like to Ralph's first question, you know, is it? I guess you're kind of falling in the middle in the sense that it does good content does matter, right? But also so does making sure it's a business, right? Ralph, the other Ralph Estep Jr: side of that, and that's why we're going to have a talk next Tuesday with a publicist, because that's exactly where I was going, Jonathan, is I have realized in my own content that's great. I put out good content. I'm very skilled at what I do as an accountant, but if I'm not building the personal brand, then it's not going to help anything.

53:04 So that's why we're going to actually be talking to a publicist next Tuesday on the about, how do you build that remarkable personality that to, and people want to build in you. Marc Ronick: Thank you, Ralph. And tomorrow we are going to be opening the mailbag discussing different different ideas around growth. So I think that's kind of appropriate, considering what we're talking about today, and talking all about growth and will jump into that tomorrow. show. Have been enjoying the podcasting morning show for some time, wherever you fall, and maybe you fall somewhere in the middle.

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