533. How to Turn Listeners Into Paying Clients

0:04 Ralph Estep Jr.: Well, good Today is Monday, June the ninth, 2026 and today we're talking about getting paid to speak and consult, because your podcast is already doing the work. It's time to start charging for it. So, if you're listening live on Clubhouse, do me a favor, hit the share button, top right hand If you want to join us live on the video, you can go to Podcasting Morning show.com/join us. And if you're catching us via podcast, YouTube, LinkedIn, or any of those platforms, please share this episode with a Pello podcaster. Now, give us about 30 seconds, and we'll get things going. You so much for being here today. Audio Clip: The podcasting morning show is powered by IronicK Media, helping podcasters launch, polish, and grow great shows, and by Content behind their content. Ralph Estep Jr.: Well, good morning again, and welcome to the podcasting morning show.

1:24 Thank you so much for being here today. I'm your host today, Ralph Estep, filling in for Mark Ronick. Now, Mark is spending a week volunteering at a charity camp. We talked about that organization a couple weeks ago, so let's all wish him goodwill as he's doing that. Now, joining me on stage, let's see, I've got BC Babbles, I've got DR. Fay, and I have to be honest with you, I'm working from a hotel room here in Texas City. So, let's see who else I've got. It looks like that's it. And then joining us from the audience, we've got Nikki, aka Tide Tutoring, Tim, and Gabe. So, thank you everybody for joining us today on this intrepid adventure as we talk about how to make money with your show, really, and your consulting work you're already doing.

2:05 Now, before we get into that, let's talk about this. Let's talk about our Spotlight series. So, if you'd like to have your show featured on our show, the easiest way to do that is if you go to Podcasting Morning show.com/spotlight and you'll follow the directions there. It's a Google form, you fill that out, and you just tell us about your show. 60 seconds, and guess what, we'll feature it on our show, so you'll get a lot of people with their eyes on your show. You can do it either audio or video. So, let's get right into today's topic. And I'm going to start off by saying this: Has anyone ever answered a DM from a listener asking for advice in your niche now. Maybe that was a coffee chat, a group thread where you ended up being the expert, or could even have been a clubhouse room where someone asked you a question and you just answered it for free. Well, guess what, that was consulting. And today we're talking about what it looks like to charge for it.

2:58 Now, before we get into today's topic, I want to have a quick warm up, and that is this. I want you to raise your hand if you want to jump in. I'll bring you up on stage, or one of the moderators can bring you up on stage, as I try to drive this crazy bus with three wheels. So, here's what I want you to do. I want to drop your answer in the chat. You can react, or if you argue, if you want to. But here's my question for you. This, and today's winning question is this: What or where are you in your podcasting journey right now? I would just like to know, where you are. Are you still thinking about starting? Are you a new podcaster under your year in? Are you an active host grinding it out? Are you making some money from your show, or maybe you're like a lot of us, trying to figure out how to make money from the show. What I'd like you to do is go ahead and drop that right in the chat, and then we can have a discussion about that. If you're joining us on video, BC and I are on the live stream, so if you want to drop into the chat where you are in your journey, I would love to see where that is. Let's see what we've got here.

3:57 So, it looks like BC is seven years in the venture, Knikki is starting in November. Started in November 2025 Good morning, Janae. Gabe says I'm an active host, grinding it out, still figuring out how to make money. Yeah, you and a lot of folks, Gabe, that is a very common situation that a lot of people find themselves in. That is no joke. Alrighty, so let's go ahead and all right, Tim, all right, Tim says since 2006 made bad podcasts for 10 years, got serious 10 years ago, great, and I see DR. is going to keep joining us on Clubhouse, which is totally fine, DR. No to the topic for today, you and I want to talk about lot of folks, and that is, how start making money, and I really is a mindset shift. It's the one that changes everything. As I said at the beginning, most So let me ask, let me ask the room this, and feel free to jump up. Well, if you want to talk, if you want to join us on stage, just put a one in the chat, if that would be great, so I can keep an eye on that.

5:09 But let me ask this question: How many of you answered a DM from a listener asking for advice in your niche? Have you been pulled into a Facebook group or forum as the go-to expert? Has anyone invited you to speak, guest, present, and you did it for free. So, let's talk about that question. BC, I'm gonna go ahead and go to you. BC Babbles: So, yeah, I had an years back. This was 2022 It wasn't through a DM, wasn't through a Facebook chat. I got an email from a rep from a company saying that her company, or at least her board, was looking to launch their own show, and had found me somewhere, knowing that I was my own host and producer. Wanted to see if I can consult them on launching a show, and she asked me to give some tidbits on what I could consult on, and I made the mistake in that moment, realized was too much premium ghosted from this conversation, never heard back, never heard like any kind of follow up, and by premium comfort, premium information I mean that I gave actionable points on how they learned real quickly to always switch, at the very best, and be early, so that you don't miss your specialization. Ralph Estep Jr.: No, and I think don't realize, is you're actually doing consulting work with that, and what you're doing, a lot of people charge

6:42 money for anywhere from $100 to $300 an hour. And here's the thing, I want to say about this, and please, if anybody else would like to comment, be happy to. It looks like Junaid, let me friend. If you want to comment, go ahead, Junaid, do you want to make a comment about what we're talking about right now? That'd be great. Junaid: Absolutely, and I've When you give away the cool, that's all I needed. And then they go and buy the thing to do the thing. And here's where I think that it's okay, because there's people that are on different paths of the journey. Some people are brand new at it, and they don't necessarily like, if you don't give them the information, they're gonna find it elsewhere anyway, so why not? It'd be you, your benefits for free, because in the long run they're gonna come back and look, you know what, BC told me this something, and it's actually working for me. I'm gonna send more people over, so I think it's totally fine when we give away these free valuable information, because in the long run you are the industry expert that they Jr.: thank you, Junaid. I think that's a very good point. And, Tide, I know you want to make a comment, so go ahead, Tide.

7:46 Knikki: I was just going to say that the conversation on this topic is really interesting, podcasting, because I started in you know, people were putting YouTube channels, and every now and then, in the education space, I would get someone who you come on my show and talk And I used to think that building clout and building a reputation online was like the most important thing, and I still think that it's still very powerful. The reason why I say that is because when someone says, "Hey, Knikki, I want you to tutor my child. A lot of times, these people don't know who I am. I'll get messages online, and the first thing that they're going to do is they're going to YouTube me, they're going to Google, they're going to do their research, they're going to vet, because they're going to say to themselves, "Well, I have to, if I'm going to, you know, allow this person to be working with my child an hour or two a week, I need to know who they are, and I think that was a great thing that Junaid just shared about, like, how you're you're helping people, you're building that positive reputation, you're putting that good energy, that good karma out there to help other people grow what they want, instead of being all tight and stingy about your expertise. I do think there's a definite time and a place for that, but there's also a time and a place to be smart about your consulting, and I can always tell when somebody is trying to get a freebie and they're not, they're not the type of person that's going to actually come back and bring me good energy, because what they're doing is

9:17 they're not being sincere from the start, and when I can tell that somebody's not being sincere, it usually looks like, hey, can I, can I pick your brain, hey, can I, can I just have 15 minutes of your time, you know, those kinds of things, those people that would have otherwise been an energy suck or with that, and I think that's a very good point, and the thing I understand is your podcast itself validates your expertise, people they publish weekly, it's a living credential that updates every single week, so I wanted to say this morning, you know, the barrier is in skill.

9:59 Soul, I really think the barrier to most of what we're talking about today is the mental shift from creator to professional. I think that's where a lot of people really struggle with this, and I'm going to say, you know, from my seat as an accountant, the moment a client starts charging for their knowledge, everything changes, they stop being a hobbyist and they become a business, and we want to be ready for that before the first dollar comes in. So, let's get specific, and let's get into our next discussion. What does this actually look like? I think there's a lot of different ways that you can do this. There's keynotes and panels speaking at industry events and conferences and associations. Oh, I'm sorry, DR. Go ahead. I apologize, I didn't see you wanted to share.

10:41 on the plane where I was going DR: That's okay. I, you know, I have a problem with setting up my boundaries, and when you are, when you come into an, like, a new space for the first time, and I'm talking about me, what, six years ago, I am constantly in that I want to prove it to you kind of mode. I want to prove it to you. I can do it. Yeah, let me answer this I can do it. I want to prove it to you, and it's hard to let go of that. Do you know what I'm saying? Ralph Estep Jr.: No, I think I think that's what a lot of I deal with a lot of small business people, DR. And that's the hardest point is, how do you pivot, and that's why I'm saying I think it's this mindset shift, because I think we all have a general desire to help people, that's why we do what we do, and then how do you get to the point where, like Knikki said, you're just going to pick my brain, I've dealt with this in my own practice, I do these 15 minute discovery calls, and I've had to say to myself, hey, you know what, I had five or seven minutes into this, this is beyond a discovery call. This is this person is asking me how to do my trade, and that's when I have to say, "Okay, you know what? I can talk to you about that.

11:49 That's what I do. Here's the results I can get. But at some point, it has to be a paying event, and I know that. And, DR, you can probably speak to this, because actually, DR, if you don't mind me saying, DR. Remember that, DR. DR: Yeah, I do. Yeah, Ralph Estep Jr.: but that's exactly what you're talking about, right? I mean, am I missing the point? DR: Yeah, no, no, you're not missing the point. But then again, we're always trying to get on podcasts for more visibility, and when we're on podcasts, we have to give value to the audience, so you know it's a tough line that we have to ride. Ralph Estep Jr.: No, I I think it's a difficult thing, and that's where you get into this discussion. Know what?

12:31 At what point, like I'm like I was talking about a minute ago, and I didn't mean to give you no time to do.. I apologize. This is where you get on these keynotes and panel speaking at associations, you know, at some point you maybe you start charging for that stuff, you you're giving your information to get to, you know, a lot of want to read something, we're reality that you live will never yourself, you'll always be that's all you think you're visibility you have. And I think you're absolutely right, Knikki, and that is this is a mindset shift we're talking about. If you're offering value, and I agree with you, DR. It's tough. It's tough to balance what is the difference between we're giving value to make ourselves to get ourselves out. I'm working with my publicist right now in this very regard. How much of yourself do you give actually giving away property, and this is really difficult.

13:34 And I like what Jessica put in here: intellectual and creative property, that's the thing. If you were selling a widget, everybody would say, okay, you're delivering me a widget, but we're opening up our brains and we're sharing intellectual property, and that's where it becomes so sticky and difficult. DR: I just don't see me charging be on that show. I think it feels more of an even trade that they are giving me exposure, they're letting me, you know, advertise what I do, and in return for that, I talk about one subject, and I drop some, you know, some little pearls of, you know, little pearls of wisdom, Ralph Estep Jr.: and I agree with you, DR. And let me just be clear, I'm not suggesting we get charging to be on other people's shows, there are people that do that, there are people that charge you to be on their show, what I'm really talking about is if you're going to get into like DR, you do editing work, so DR, the obvious thing for me to say to you is you do strategy consulting, you help people grow and launch their shows, that is something that you can absolutely charge for that expertise.

14:49 If you have a niche that you're, that you're subject in, like for example, Janae, Janae, I think I can speak for you and say your niche is in building studios and understanding. How to do that. Well, that's something that Junaid should charge for. Now, that doesn't mean he doesn't go on someone else's show to promote his brand to promote what he's doing, but at some point Junaid needs to make the pivot. And Junaid, feel free to jump in here if you want to comment, but at some point Junaid needs to make the pivot because he has knowledge in this niche and people need that expertise on that specific topic, and that's where I'm really going today. Is I think, as podcasters, we lose sight of the fact that we have all this richness that we build up on ourselves, and we understand our niche, we understand what we're doing, and I think that a lot of people go into this to make money, and their first thing they think is, well, I'm gonna buy ads, I'm gonna get sponsors, but my personal view is that what you're missing is the gold that you already have in the area of expertise that you're talking about every week, and I think that we got to change our mindsets and say, you know, Junaid. I don't know if you wanted to comment, I don't know if you're available to comment, but go ahead, you know, Junaid: absolutely, I would love to comment, and you're absolutely right.

16:01 You know, the more conversation we have in our expertise, the more points we're The one thing that I have been doing for the past many, many years is that anytime I do, do I give a consult, I take down that conversation and I say, can I make a blog post out of this? Can I make a post out of this, so others can learn more about it as well, because again, as we're having these depths of our brains to answer not be answered before, right? building an archive of your think that's what's important, answer a question, or even when you're starting out, we have so much experience, and I'm place, but you're absolutely I'm going to pause here. Ralph Estep Jr.: No, and Junaid, think we have to be - I say this on the show all the time - you have to be intentional with your content, and that is, and I'm not saying to bait and switch, because I like what Ty put in there. He said, when people get the feeling that is just a money will you. I agree with that, but I think you could be intentional in setting up your information so that it's put in a way that there is an on ramp to, hey, I need to hire you as a consultant.

17:20 I just think so many they don't think about the next step to that, because you can get into corporate workshops, kinds of things, and the beauty of this part, and this is the part that I really love, for podcasters, you don't need this, if you look at cost per yeah, you're going to get audience, but if you have a have a service, you have a niche you are a consultant, that you're an expert in, that you don't need 100,000 downloads, you just need to be the most credible voice in that specific niche, and I think that a lot of people don't realize that, and that's where you're building up your episodes, you're building up that back catalog that people go and listen to those like you just mentioned, Janae, and they say, "Wow, yeah, I gotta hire Junaid, because here is a person that understands it.

18:15 But we also have to be intentional, because you have to realize that you are building that content library, you don't want to just give away not a very common thing that I truly do not believe that you have an obligation to give away everything that you know. I think there are ways to phrase it, there are ways to put it together intentionally, so that you give yourself an opportunity to make money, but I listen to a ton of shows where people never even have a call to action is hire me. I'm going to get to that in a couple minutes, because the truth of the matter is for most of us, your first opportunity is going to come from a listener, someone that already knows you, someone who likes you and trusts you, because you're building that up with your audience. So, let me open up to the room right now.

19:00 speak about right now. I just want to let everybody make their comments here. If you'd like to come on stage and talk about what topic you could be hired to speak about right now, I think we can start there. Does anybody want to comment about the topic that they could be hired at right now? It looks like Gabe put in the chat, he said live streaming, and then Ty put in there. This book really helped me with self image, and that is she put a link to that in the show notes. I don't know, Nikki, are you available to mention the name of that book? Knikki: Yes, it's called Your Wish Is Your Command. Ralph Estep Jr.: Very good. Thank you for sharing that. I'm going to share a couple more It's paying or receiving recognizes and enforces invention, education, and for Tim says you should be compensated for your knowledge, because it costs you either time or money.

19:48 Absolutely, Tim, that is 100% of where I'm going with this. And Tim says I like to speak at conferences because it's like a free sample. You nailed it, Tim. Exactly, that is the mindset I hope this goes along with what DR was saying as well. That conference, that conference talk is a free sample. You hope that the person sees you on stage or hears you and says, you know what, I got to go find that, and that's the key to this whole thing. And I see Tim mentioned here that he is an expert in creativity, writing and podcasting. Junaid, we talked about home studio stuff. Knikki writing and tutoring. Jessica said, I would like to speak on the on the power of story. Great idea.

20:28 Knikki also put parent coaching. BC, did you want to mention what you were mentioning in the comments? BC Babbles: Sure, yeah. I mean, the kind of thing that Alex discuss on shows include podcasting as a business development tool. Why a lot of content marketing fails in this current market. And my biggest discussion every topic has, for the longest time, been the entrepreneurial culture of the unprofessional. That's my bread and butter, that's where I live. So, anything like that is my Ralph Estep Jr.: Excellent. Does anyone else want to share before we move on to our next Hi, I just want to remind everybody to join us tomorrow. Tomorrow, we're going to have a special guest joining us on the show. Tomorrow is Daniel J.

21:11 Lewis. He has been in podcasting for a long time. We're going to talk about his journey, and we're going to talk about his tools. He's got two tools that he's developed for podcasters, one of So, make sure you join us tomorrow. He will be on the show. And just to give you a little bit of a heads up, we're also gonna have Dave Jackson on the show on Thursday. So, we got two big interviews this week, and hopefully, we'll get the technology to work. I will be back in the home studio on Wednesday. Tomorrow might be interesting, but we're gonna make it work. So, let's go ahead and move into the next area that I put together here, and this is the thing that it kind of goes along with what Tim said, and that is what most podcasters don't realize is your RSS feed is a demo reel, because when someone's deciding to hire a speaker or a consultant, they want to hear how the person thinks, they want to understand how you communicate, whether you can hold a room, and your back catalog of episodes is exactly that proof.

22:07 So, let's talk about an action plan of how to make this turn into money for your show, because I think you need to really work about this, and a So, I've come up with some ideas week to help you take that next step. The first step is this: you've got to add a button to your website, work with me, or hire me to speak on your website. A lot of people don't think about that. If you don't ask, no one is going to know that's available. I think that is really important, and you can do that. It's super simple to do that, just go put a button on your website, work with me, or hire me to speak. Put that on your on your website. Another thing you can do is write a one paragraph speaker bio and do it in the third person.

22:52 When I did some research for today's show, I thought that was kind of a cool idea. Is you can go right to, if you've got like a pod match profile, you're kind of already doing that, but put it on your website, so people know, The second, or the third step to this, is then list maybe three, four, or five talk topic, talk talk topics. Twisted words are hard in the morning. I wish I could play the jingle, but I'm struggling with that today. But list three or five talk topics you could deliver right now, and then the other thing I want to recommend. This is what I call step four. You could curate three, four, or five of your best episodes as proof of expertise samples. Again, it's putting those samples out there that other people you can see.

23:33 And then the fifth step I had booking email address that I people miss, and you can do It's super simple to do. I think that is really easy to do. you're operating as a business before $1 even comes in. And that's when you can talk, and we're going to pivot to this in a minute, but that's when you talk about how do we get to the business side of this. But the first thing you've got to do is change your mindset and start thinking about how do I bring business into this, because, like I said earlier, I think a lot of content creators are thinking about advertisers and are thinking about sponsors and are thinking about all those things, but what they're not thinking about is what can you sell, what are the services, what are the things that you know how to do really well, that will stand out.

24:22 You've got that back catalog. Go back and look at those things. You can go through your episodes and say, oh, you know what, I do know how to, I do understand that there's a, there's a market for that. I think what you're going to find is a lot of people are going to say, yeah, absolutely, I need to have the, I need to talk with this person. Maybe you create that 15 minute discovery call, so that you can sort of put your arm around them and explain what you do, but then you also have to have an intentionality in how am I going to make this work, because I think it's real easy to get trapped in those DMs and offering yourself out there and not getting paid for. I think all of us have been guilty of that. Does anybody want to comment about a situation where they felt like they. Were get set up for this intellectual property dump, but nobody wanted to pay them at the end.

25:05 And what did you learn from that? Does anybody want to comment about that? All right. Well, let's move on a little bit. Then, so once that page is live, and I actually recommend you do a separate page on your website, I think what you need to do is then we have to have a discussion about what do you other thing that I hear a lot of know what to do, and that's Ralph. Hey, I love what you're saying, dude, but how do you make that work? How do you charge for that? So, let's talk numbers, people freeze up. Let's start with guest speaking. These are free events and exposure, like, like Tim mentioned, I think BC might have mentioned it. I don't think you're going to charge for those things, but here's the thing, I'm going to tell you to do is get a recording of it, get a testimonial, or several testimonials from people who were there, so that they can talk about what you learned, but recording and use it as your resume, use it to promote what you talked about, that could parlay that into income for your Empower podcasting too. You had videos.

26:08 Do you want to talk about that at all, Junaid, about how you were able to put that together and how you people could use that information? Junaid: Absolutely, and I'm trying to think about, so yeah, Empowered Podcasting, what I did, I set up cameras to capture the event, and then eventually on the on the end of it, like, hey, we have Chris content available. Well, who captured it? Oh, Jeanette captured, or what does he do? He does home studio, and then my talk was also on that topic, right? So, again, it's all it all comes right? It takes time to build that foundation and the yeah, words are not working in No, but thank you. Ralph Estep Jr.: But what you're you do. You didn't charge for that, per se, you, but you, you gave information so people could see, oh, that's oh, who is the would be willing to bet there that approached you after that what you do. Is that, is that true, Junaid?

27:10 Junaid: Yes, it is true. people, then few other events able to offer that same service. In fact, there's one coming up in September, so super excited for continued exponential growth through just that one experience. Ralph Estep Jr.: Thank you, Junaid. And that's where I think you need to start those guests I don't think you're charging for that, DR. You mentioned that. How do you do that? I don't think you charge for those things, but those things get you out there in front. But make sure you have a copy of it, make sure you be able to use it. Now, the next thing, a lot of people don't think about, there are events and small community local conferences in your area. If you're in expertise, you could charge anywhere from 250 to $1,000 to go speak at those things. You could do virtual keynotes, online summits, you can make anywhere from 500 to $2,500 doing those. But here's the one I think we can really focus in on here for a couple minutes.

28:04 One on one consultant, that's where you're charging an hourly rate, and people are making anywhere from 75 to $200 an hour to start. If you have a specific area that you're smart in, that you really worked in, that you have this back catalog of information in, that is an easy thing to do. Now I'm gonna say easy thing to do, but it's a thing that a lot of people don't think about. It's a way to make some money. Stop chasing the CPMs top, chasing sponsors, go sell yourself doing one on one I just think there's a huge opportunity there, and I think a lot of people don't think about that doing that. The other thing you can do is put together some consulting packages. I know Janae does this for people with Home Studio, and just one second, but you can put package where you're promoting actually showing somebody how point they're having. But go ahead, BC.

29:01 BC Babbles: No, I absolutely add there to what you were do when it comes into packages I always look to provide a kind of three tier system to what I provide. When it comes to consulting, I would consider having kind of a base just discussion every hour, but sometimes you might come into contact with a potential client that wants something more actionable, more in depth out of the hour, or maybe over an hour of your time. So I would even consider doing a tier system, upping the price, because those more involved sessions may involve you prepping beforehand, having the actual meeting, then prepping post facto to follow up, and that's a lot of your time, and so I think building a system like that, to your point, asset for you going forward as a Ralph Estep Jr.: Thank you, BC.

29:51 And now, does anybody else want to comment? I want to talk about pricing this, because this is the thing that a lot of people.. made a comment. Go ahead, Tide. Knikki: Yeah, I was just going Ideas were absolute fire, because when you think about the opportunities that we have online to present our knowledge and expertise, sometimes we think that we need the validation of another person to go on another show, or to do this or that, to get our expertise out there, and to get our name out there, but there's a lot of things that you mentioned that you can do solo that will drive people onto your always hunting and fishing, and on, you know, in other people's parks, so to speak, and the Eventbrite, Eventbrite is a great thing. Mark, the host of this podcast, when we had that get-together in Maryland, I believe he said that he posted the event on Eventbrite, and it was a free thing, but there were people there that surprised him, that showed up. They didn't.

30:42 He didn't know these individuals. They just found the event on and show up, which was a because he didn't expect it. So, if you are a consultant, or you feel like you've got something to offer and something to share, you can, you know, go on other people's shows, of course, and that can be very helpful, but you don't always have to. If you grab the bull by the horn, so to speak, and you put an Eventbrite out there, or just something - it could be an online webinar, something that you could eventually have pre-recorded, where it's sent out, whatever the case is. You could put that out there, put some tickets - it could be a free event if you wanted it to be free, or your tickets could be cheap, or they could be affordable, or they could be expensive, you know, just depending on how you see it put that out there, and you surprises, some people out there have to say, but you'll never know if you don't put yourself out there. Ralph Estep Jr.: I absolutely agree with that, and again, you don't need 5000 people to show up to make this work. You can have five people show up, and if they're the right people, that can be super profitable for you.

31:48 that, Knikki. Does anybody else want to share any quick ideas before we talk about pricing? Because I think this is the mindset we need to spend a few minutes on pricing. So, let's get right to it. So, how do you price this? The first thing I'm going to say is, start with your current day job hourly rate as a floor, whatever you're making in your current day job, don't go below that. That's the thing you need to understand. Don't give away the store. If your current day job hourly rate is $20 an hour, then if you're going to do consulting work on your own, don't charge any less than that. why I'm saying that, it wouldn't at that point, so that's one What is your current job rate? Use that as a floor, don't ever go below that. You can also get in the project-based pricing, because that actually usually earns more accounting, we see that all the time.

32:40 A lot of people want to say, well, my hourly rate is this, but you can get into project-based pricing because people are buying an outcome, they're buying the resolution to the pain that they're feeling, they're they're buying that, and I like what BC said, is to what degree should someone base their models off of information provided by Chat DB? careful with that, BC, because going to tell you the average. I think that's the issue, and Janae says it should be double And I agree with you, I think that's a good place to start, Janae. I just think that a lot of people have a hard time services, and if I can say to you're making in your, your regular job outside of content that. Go ahead, BC.

33:26 I see you want to make a comment. BC Babbles: Yeah, and you know that kind of difficulty that I consultants have when it comes pricing, but also supporting the what we price for what we I had a colleague who started their own podcast earlier this year, and she made a great comment about what happens when she faces that same kind of obstacle when someone questions the pricing of a service, and she mentions what really helps support your decision on pricing a service is outcome, and then see this price, and to them the client doesn't make sense. But when you line item everything that actually requires that service to be provided, it helps. Sorry, words are hard.

34:21 It helps to make the pricing more sensible to them. Ralph Estep Jr.: I agree with important. And the thing that also I wanted to say here, and that's the thing that I've learned myself, think about this as a mindset shift as well. Your first three, four, or five gigs are market research. You might, you might not do them for the prices you're going to eventually be able to charge. You may even consider doing them I'll give you an example of this. I did some coaching for people on how to make money with their show. The first two people that I took on as clients, I said I for this. I said, but because I'm doing this, I'm just. Starting this out, I'm going to give you this 12 week package for free, and I use that as an opportunity to understand what would work, what wouldn't work, and it was super important for me to do that, because guess what, I got a great, I got great testimonials out of it, I understood the stress points of it, I understood what was working, what wasn't working, and then once I got done that I can say, okay, here's what I can actually charge for this, because then I knew what it would cost in my time, I knew the resources I needed to use, and that's the thing we had to be on, we have to understand it's okay to give away that free going to be long term, I just want to mention a couple things, Tim put in the chat here. He says I do project-based.

35:43 I also use error rates for professionals around the US, as reported by their members. That's the Association of Independence in radio. Great point, Tim. Another thing I want to mention here is, and this is a thing a lot of people struggle with, and I see this with a lot of small business people, the first thing they start doing is apologizing for their rate, hear me on this. Don't do that. when you say my rate is this or my price is this. Do it confidently and be quiet. I used to work in a credit union, and I worked with collectors, and the things that we taught there was what we call the pregnant pause, and a lot of people, when they're trying to sell something, just keep on talking and keep on talking. One of the things I'm going to tell you right now, one of the one of the tricks of the trade here for sales is, give your fee, give your price, and be quiet, and trust me, it's going to be a struggle, because you're going to want to talk, because they're not going to say anything right away, but let it sit, but don't ever apologize for your prices, so let's talk right now about thinking about charging for the things that you're consulting.

36:47 If anybody wants to make a you're working on right now or a somebody, how did you decide how for that? Does anybody want to comment on that? Go ahead, Knikki. Knikki: Sure, so for me, one of the clients that I am still currently working with were in haul. When we first met each other, I knew that this individual had a high net worth. I knew that, and I was okay with that. And at first, I felt a little nervous, just a little bit nervous, because I was like, great opportunity for me. This is, it's not just about the money, but it's also a great with somebody of a very high caliber in my industry, etc.

37:29 etc. So I really, really, really worked hard to psych myself up for the meeting and to project confidence, and the confidence that I have, it came from true expertise, so it wasn't fake confidence at all. I had true expertise, but what I wanted to do was I wanted to project confidence that I knew what I was talking about, and I also wanted to project confidence about the money aspect, which is what you were saying, Ralph. You know, you got to be able to quote your price and be confident in that, and in this helped me was I spoke to a Clubhouse. They're not in this space necessarily, but there's a person who came on Clubhouse. I don't really see them very often anymore, and he's a marketing person, and he was somebody who I trusted.

38:13 I said, you know what, I'm going to trust this person's advice, because the reason why I trusted it was because this person has no, it's you got to be a little bit, you know, discerning, but this person has what I want, he has what I want. So, if he has what I want, and he started from zero, like I did, then that means that he can give me some advice on how to maneuver and handle this situation, because he's been there, that's the reason why I trusted it, so he told me. He said, 'Here's the thing you need to know about this high net worth individual, and he doesn't even know this person, and he goes, 'That person will have no issues spending the high dollar amount with you if they feel confident that it's going to be worth it.

39:00 If they feel confident it'll be worth it, they'll spend the money, they won't even blink twice at what you quote them if they feel it's worth it. So I said okay. So that was the mindset that I went into the meeting with, is conveying the worth and conveying the value of what we were going to do and create together. And we've since completed the project. It's been an amazing journey thus far. He continues to pay me monthly and all these other things, incredible for him. And so that was the big lesson that I had to learn, particularly, particularly about high net worth individuals, that they don't bat an eye an eyelash at paying a high rate, if they feel it's worth it. It's usually the people that don't have a ton of money that are the ones sort of nickeling and diming you and questioning you about every single thing, and those people can really get you down sometimes.

39:52 Ralph Estep Jr.: No, and I think You said a couple things I want to, I want to spend a couple of moments on Knikki. The first thing is, what you are selling is a solution. Solution, you're not selling a price, you're selling value, you're selling something that the person is going to take away, and I think it's real easy charging, what you need to start thinking in terms of here's the solution I'm providing, here's the pain point I'm resolving, here's the once you do this, I think it's little time and think through with, here's the price, that's You got to go into it. Here's what I'm going to give you. Here's the value you're going to get from that. I think that is the difference.

40:34 I want to read a couple comments. Gabe put in the comments here. I'm still figuring, or still figuring out how to build out my pitch deck for my services. Conversation really helped me understand how better to approach this. Jessica put bookkeeping is my part-time job, and when I secure new clients, we begin with the retainer fee based on what their needs are. Great point, Tim says I'm at work, so he couldn't really see her on stage, but since my clients are remote, a line item I charge for recording time, I charge them for my subscription to Descript Squad Cast, and BC, did you want to mention what you put in the chat here? BC Babbles: Oh, sure, yeah. So, a couple years ago, back when I was just getting into consulting and had no idea where to begin regarding what's a price for my time, had a friend who would always tell me, put yourself where people can afford you, so don't let yourself worry too much about hitting those prospective clients who are only able to handle low, low tier pricing, because it may just be that those are not your people, or that may not be your audience. If you're looking to, especially if you're looking to consult certain kind of businesses, then be confident where you price yourself and establish yourself in front of the eyes of the people who can see that pricing, respect it, and bring you on with it.

41:47 Ralph Estep Jr.: Absolutely, and that we spend a moment there. A lot of people think, well, nobody's buying my services, The problem is you're talking to the wrong people, so you've got to put yourselves in front of the audience that can afford your services, you got to put yourself in front of the audience that needs your them, and I think that's the folks, they struggle because, alluded to this, you have to also have to put yourself on people can afford your services, It's super important to do that. I want to mention something here, Jessica, but she said I'm contracted where my primary job and renegotiate every contract amount of annual goals and tangible value in terms of I agree with that wholeheartedly.

42:41 Now I'm going to pivot here in a moment, but does anybody else want to talk about how they develop their pricing model, how there and make that first consulting pitch, or build out that first project? Did anybody want to comment on that? All right, so let me get into some practicalities of this, because as the accountant or the money guy on the show, I wanted to bring up some other things here as we talk about that. I hopefully this was a good inland ramp for ideas of how to start actually building some revenue, but this is the part that a lot of indie podcasts get surprised by, and that even a little bit of income from speaking or consulting comes with a tax obligation at tax time, and the best time prepared that first check is not after the check comes.

43:26 So I wanted to just throw out some ideas that you've got to understand as you're thinking shift of where you're going to consulting services or doing any The first thing you got to understand is something called self-employment tax. Self-employment tax is 15.3% on top of regular income taxes. That is the social security and Medicare. When you work for somebody else, they pay half, you pay half. Well, guess what? When you work for yourself, you pay both halves of that. So you've got to think at the front end of this budget between 25 and 30% of whatever you're collecting and consulting income in this project income, and set that aside. Another thing we've talked about this on the show before, on these Money Mondays, is you may need to make quarterly estimated taxes, so you don't get hit at the end of the year, because guess what, the IRS system is a pay as you go plan, so you need to start thinking about, okay, how much money have I made, and do I need to send in quarterlies?

44:24 Another thing, and I'm not an attorney, I don't play one on TV. Always use a contract whenever you're doing any kind of consulting work, any kind of project work. It doesn't have to be something you know, 1500 pages, a simple one page agreement to protect you and protect your person that you're working with and establish that professional relationship. I think that's something that we all need to really think about. Another thing we need to consider here is travel reimbursements versus taxable income. If you have expenses that are reimbursed. Of the client, those are not income, you'll be able to offset So, for example, I'm going to use Junaid as an example. So, Junaid came to Delaware to help me with my studio.

45:05 Janae is going to, it's going to cost him money to fly there or drive there, whatever that looks like. He doesn't have to show this, he may charge me for that, that may be part of what he's charging for the direct cost, maybe for a hotel or something like that. You need to make sure you're information, because you don't person's actually paying you. If you had expenses related to that, any cash payments are those. Also, a lot of people say, well, they, you know, they pay me cash, I want to report that, that's how Al Capone ended up in jail, so don't do that now. Before we go into the next topic, does anybody have any this? And I know we're kind of throwing a lot of things out there.

45:48 Go ahead, BC, looks like comment. BC Babbles: Yes, I'm happy you mentioned this, because I have that media correspondent service I have in that same offer a bit about traveling, where I say I'm happy to travel a certain distance on my own, that's fine, Now, let's say a dream client of mine for that would be NAB show, So, my question would be, well, what if I don't have at the time of being contracted to do this event the means to make that trip? So, I would have to then say, okay, well, for this trip we would need to include this and at least an initial down me out there and put me up service, and then to fly back something that's reimbursed, taken care of before the service Ralph Estep Jr.: I think that's a great idea, BC, and I think that's just reasonable. Just keep track of what you're spending for that, what you're if I'm wrong, is that you're "Hey, I'd love to come do this going to need to pay my travel Is that what you're saying, BC? BC Babbles: Correct.

47:10 And so, in contrast to what you were mentioning, where it's like a post factor reimbursement, this would be kind of part of the pricing, and therefore I guess it would be taxable, as opposed to what you were saying before about a reimbursement. Ralph Estep Jr.: Well, it's going to be taxable, but effectively you're going to still incur those expenses. So, at the end of the day, yes, you're going to show that as income revenue side, but you're going to deduct the cost of that travel. It's just a different way of looking at it. BC, BC Babbles: oh, okay. I like that. Ralph Estep Jr.: Yeah, go ahead, I see you have a comment. Knikki: I was just going to say that, as far as the travel, one of the best things that I have ever done, because it helped me with my tax refund at the end of thing, because I drive a lot and I go to a lot of different places, I go to conferences, go to business meetups, anything like that, and so even though my mom does my taxes, and I asked her a long time ago, I was like, "Mom, can I write off my, my gas? And she was like, "No, but you can write off your, your And so she said, "Keep track of your speedometer, not your speedometer, but your mileage in Make sure that you have all these records, because when we do your taxes and stuff, this is going to help you reduce how much you have to pay, or it's going to increase how much you get back, and I was like, okay, so that's what I've been doing, and last year I think it was the very first year that I actually kept track of my mileage, and you know, I got a substantial amount of money back from taxes, just, and it wasn't just from that, but that was a significant reason why, was because of the mileage, the other piece to this is that if

48:43 you're traveling, whether you're traveling a lot or a little, it's always good to have rewards programs, so if you are traveling by plane, you want to have the rewards programs of all the free flights and all of those things, because that, that will help you as well in your business, because then you're not paying so much out of pocket, and then you know you get a lot of free stuff. So, join their programs, and they don't cost anything that I'm aware of. They don't cost anything. And then the other piece is this is not for everybody, of course, but sometimes hooking up with a travel agent can help you. It can help you get a lot of free stuff while you're on the road, or at least discounted, highly, highly discounted stuff, because they have a lot of the access and the deals with these hotels, and with these restaurants, and bars, and things like that, that you'll be going to, they, they can get you, you know, reduced rates, and things like that.

49:37 So it's really helpful, and I was also just going to say that if you wanted to be a travel agent yourself, I'm actually in the process, I'm thinking about it, I'm thinking about being a travel agent as well, because I know a lot of people who travel, and the cool thing is that, like, if I'm successful, I want to help other people be successful, so if I become a travel agent, not only am I going to have access to all the perks directly, because I'm the one doing it. But then I can also help my own family, who travels a lot, and I can help them, you know, increase or decrease the cost of traveling and things like that for their own businesses, for their own, you know, for their own stuff, and then I can make some additional money on the side, because I'm the one helping them book their services, or book their stuff out, so it's just something I was thinking about, and I just wanted to share that, because I think that there's a lot of ways to reduce expenses, to get some free stuff, to get some discounted items, and things like that. If you do it the right way, you can really reap the rewards of all the traveling that you do.

50:31 Ralph Estep Jr.: Great point, perfectly for where I was going to end today's show, and that's what can you actually deduct. things that you can deduct. A lot of people don't think about if you're traveling for speaking engagements, you can deduct your flights, your hotel, your meals. Now, there's a 50% limitation on meals, but keep track of all those things. If you have home office, it's used exclusively for consulting or for calls, you can take a deduction for that. some courses, or any books that you're reading in your niche, again, those are deductible, as far as marketing expenses, your website, your updates to your somebody, or you've built a things, any of those headshots, or any of the equipment used for consulting calls, or content if you've listened to me, you track every expense from day You can use a simple There's some free accounting apps out there, that's all you need to start. Spend that 30 seconds right now, Well, that's what I have prepared for today.

51:38 It looks like we're just about I want to remind everybody to come back tomorrow, like I said. We're going to have Daniel J. Lewis on the show. I'm going to work diligently to make the video work. I'm going to try to test that out here a little bit. But thank you, everybody, for joining me today. And we will see you again tomorrow on the podcasting morning show. Everybody, have a great day today.