335 - Prime Day Deals for Podcasters & Who's Actually Listening?

0:04 Good morning podcasting Morning chat. Today is Wednesday, July 9th, 2025 and today a major platform hands back a beloved tool. New AI features promise cleaner edits, Prime Day deals hit podcasting gear, and a fresh way to monetize has just dropped. So if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, bottom left hand side of the screen and share it. However, Clubhouse lets you. And if you're listening via podcast, please share this episode with the fellow podcaster. And now give us about 30 seconds and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here. Good morning again podcasting morning chat. Thank you for being here.

1:24 I am your host Mark Ronick and on stage currently with me we have Dr. Fay, producer Ashley Feller, Jonathan Howard and Sid Meadows. I'm wondering if we'll see Amanda Sharp for those moderators Co hosts. You guys saw it probably in the text, the group text that I send every morning to you. I was kind of ribbon Amanda for this day being her favorite day. It used to be a joke and I think that it's just now a joke. I don't know that she actually feels this way, but she used to. Maybe I'm being dramatic. Dread Newsday. She just didn't like doing Newsdays, but it happens to be, I think, oh, she's here now.

2:06 I happen to think it's one of the more popular downloaded days and listened to episodes of the week. So I think our audience likes it. But Amanda, what is it about News and comment? Probably not the best way to start an episode because we're going to sit here and talk about reasons why we don't like it. But but I feel like you're in the minority, so I think that's OK. What is it about News and Comment day that you don't love? Good question. I guess I'm more into like the feelings of a conversation, like the human aspect of it. And I feel like news is so like it's just factual, you know what I mean?

2:48 Where I like a little variance of being able to add some humor, some life to the conversation. And I think we do do that on Newsdays, but I think our other topics allow for everyone to kind of participate where news is just like, oh, here's an event that I'm not going to go to. Here is a new piece of equipment that I'm not going to get, like, you know what I mean? We've got a whole list of equipment today. Gone at VR. Well, it is Amazon Prime week, so we want to make sure that people know what products are out there. And look, I think that This is why I call it. We didn't used to call it news and comment, but to Amanda's point, that's why I now call it news and comment because I think that we've done a great job of not just spitting out the news stories, but also talking about them and how they're affecting us. We're asking questions about them, having quality conversations around them and not every story. Some stories it's just information for you, other times it is worth a conversation.

3:53 So we will dig into all of that and I know this. What's funny is Dr. This is your favorite day of the week. It. Is when I first came on board that's like the first thing I asked about was do you have someone helping you on Newsday? Because that's kind of my. Thing, yeah. And I'm grateful for it because I, I, I definitely like a little assistance with it because it's a bit of a lift. It's probably our most prepared for day, I would say, of the week. And plus the way we ping pong, it's different, a different voice, you know, a lower voice and upper. It's just gives it a little bit more. It's blooming, as they said, blooming. I love it. Now I'm saying that it's the more popular day among our audience, yet we've got two people in the live audience today so far.

4:44 I guess people are late to rise this morning. Mike, Dan, thank you for being here. And you both are, of course, welcome as anybody is listening live. You are welcome to come up and join the conversation. You know, I was just thinking about how we talk about the stage and how in the audience and how we say come up or you down in the audience. And I feel like symbolically it, it almost feels like we're like, and I know we're not meaning to do this, but it feels like we're like putting ourselves on a pedal being up here while you're down there. It's terminology. I was just thinking about the other day when we were using it, like, I think I need to come up with some better wording for that. But that's just because of Clubhouse here, how it's displayed.

5:29 The the speakers obviously should be at the top of the screen so you can see everybody who's participating and then the audience just below them. Yeah. Amanda, what did you want to say? I think that is a good point. Not that I think anyone here is offended by that, but those who may be listening on a replay or YouTube might not understand the reference of what that means if they've never been on Clubhouse. So I do think that that is something that, well, isn't like offensive, I think to anyone here in this room could be confusing. So I think that's a great point. Yeah. And Mike Short in the chat says, come up on stage like use that as the terminology. I like that until it's. Totally confusing when you're on 2 platforms.

6:10 Jonathan, that's right. Jonathan is helping us. There's some, what do we call it, limited availability software out there from Chatter that we would be able to both simulcast from here on Clubhouse and the new Chatter social audio app. That would be very cool because then if for those of you who prefer Clubhouse, you can just stay right here. And if you want to see what's going on over a Chatter, you can do that too. Either way, you can hear the conversation at the same time. So we're excited about that, that that would put make it 3 platforms we stream live to including YouTube. OK, hit the right button. Thank you, Mark for hitting the right button this morning. Let's dive into some news, shall we, as Amanda, I imagine is groaning.

7:01 First, let's start with some data, podcast data for July 8th. Yesterday, the number one podcast on Apple, Devil in the Desert and ABABC news production that was there last week as well I believe and #1 on Spotify, yes also there last week and usually they're previous weeks the Joe Rogan experience. We'll get to DRS top five in just a second. First, I want to share over the last week, 183,951 podcasts published at least one new episode sold, which is down 5.2%. Huge. Yeah, it's got to be summertime. And a little more information here on episode output. Live Wire reported that new podcast episode output put in June dipped slightly, down 4.7% from May when adjusted for seasonal factors.

8:00 Spotify for Creators still led the pack with 26.6% of new episodes, though its share it was down a little bit. Meanwhile, Spreaker, Buzz, Sprout, Pod Bean, and Lipson all saw gains in June, and Amazon Cloudfront continues to dominate distribution, now serving over 60% of all podcast episodes. You may not even know it, but likely your podcast is on Amazon Cloudfront. Could be that the distribution service that you use is using Amazon's cloud. The take away? Even with a small slow down, platform shifts are happening and it's worth keeping an eye on where you're hosting and distributing.

8:44 Stack up and we will get to DRS top five. In fact, why don't we do your top five first Dr. and then share a little bit about pod matches. June 2025 report. Spotify the top five number 5. This is a new one for us, at least I have not read it as the top five yet. It's called Modern Wisdom with Chris Williamson, and then it rounds out with names that we already know #4 the past weekend with Theo von #3. This is usually when the Tiffany starts. OK, the Tucker Carlson show #2 good hang with Amy Poehler and #1 The Joe Rogan Experience. Shocker again.

9:27 And you usually bring us another top five list. So what do you got for us? So the random chart of the week This Time is Business and again #5 is one that I had not heard of before. It's called Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers, and #4 is the Morning Brew daily #3 is the PBD podcast #2 is The Mellow Millionaire with Tom Mellow, and #1 is The Diary of ACEO with Stephen Bartlett. I wonder who his most recent guest is, 'cause he's an always at #1. He's usually in that list of top five, top 10, but not always at #1 So I'm wondering if maybe it's a recent guest that moved the needle.

10:15 Yeah. And by the way, thank you to those of you who have joined us in the audience this morning. A few moments ago, I was talking about how we only had like two people here. Good to see people filing in this morning. Thank you for being here. And I see Billy in the audience. And Billy, if you want to share, feel free to come up anytime. I saw your short form video you put out, I think it was yesterday about the success of your mastermind group and how well it's going for the members of your group and just wanted to give you kudos if you want to share or you can hold it for Friday if you prefer. Good to see you here Billy as well. OK, so now DRI, think we have time? Do we have time before you hit the breakfast? Sure, we have time. OK, Pod match.

10:58 As you know, that's San Filippo. Just for what's his friends, Alex. Thank you. Alex Sanfilippo's pod match latest industry report reveals A striking imbalance. A tiny core of consistently releasing shows drives most of the audience, while the vast majority of independent podcasts struggle to gain, say, friction, struggle to gain traction. OK, here's what that means for creators and how to join the success club. Now the key insights are listenership is up, but activity is flat. Podcast audiences audience numbers are climbing, yet only a small percentage of shows stay active, leaving room for new creators.

11:43 Tiny Core drives the audience just 10% of the independent news. Interview based podcasters create 95% of the total listenership. And consistency matters. 100 episodes equals success. Most creators who hit 100 episodes see real traction, but most drop out. A large percentage quit before reaching that milestone, and patience is key. It takes roughly 2 years and 100 episodes on a weekly schedule to breakthrough and also guest dynamics. Pod Match users average multiple guests request daily, highlighting demand and opportunity.

12:29 Yeah, I'll tell you, it gets a pod match. I love it and I will recommend, continue to recommend it. And I get flooded sometimes with guest requests, so much so that I just get too overwhelmed to get through them all. It gets really, it can get really overwhelming quickly. And that's a good thing, right? Because I know plenty of podcasters out there that after some time start to struggle, like, who's going to be my next guest? Where am I going to find another guest? And that's where Pod Match really comes in handy. It feels like you have a plethora of options if you are on that platform looking for guests. But yeah, it it can be a lot for sure. And I'm curious if if anybody is.

13:10 And I know you have to go make some breakfast. So I'll pick this one up. I'm curious, do you think sticking it out to 100 episodes seems realistic for most people? Meaning some people get in, get into podcasting, and no matter how much you tell them it's, it's a slow burn. Patience is key. They're still kind of have that hope in the back of their mind, that dream in the back of their mind that it's going to be wildly successful from launch. But the reality is, as this report shows, and as I've seen it many times with in podcasting, it takes at least 100 episodes to really start seeing that success.

13:51 Sid, take it away. Good morning, everybody. So I'm curious about the data that Dr. just mentioned and what was the survey size? Was it strictly people on Pod match that were surveyed and there was something in there that she mentioned but you didn't give the numbers of like some description of success? Did it talk about like number of downloads and things of that nature? I just just curious about the information in that report. Sure, and anyone can check out this report at podmatch.com/report and it says here the report provides interview based independent podcasters with relevant industry metrics by excluding data from celebrity and big network shows. It says here 36,212 total AE podcasters. Not sure what AE is, but this is a big survey and it comes from a lot of different sources.

14:47 Active something. Oh yeah, Active something, yeah, that could very well be what AE stands for. But this comes from a lot of different sources. For example, when they provide total industry totals, there are 398,197 active podcasts and they say that this data comes from Rafonic. And then if you look at some point further down here, they also use numbers from Buzz Sprout. So for example, when you talk about the top ten podcasts that as far as downloads go within the first seven days, they show here that 453 is the number of downloads. If you have that in your first week, you are in the top 10%. And that is data from Buzz Sprout. So it's a wide variety of different resources that they are pulling together.

15:44 I don't know the exact number and it's not just people surveyed. They're not just going to say the pod match community and asking them to answer questions. This is just a a collaborative effort. And then specifically, did you have a specific question about the data Sid? Look at the list and what does it say here? Let me read it again. Tiny Core drives the crowd, meaning just 10% of independent podcasts have the share of podcast audiences. Interview based podcasters create 95% of the total listenership. Independent podcast 10%. Is that the one you were you were looking for Sid?

16:26 That's an interesting data when they're talking about to be in the top 10%, you need to 453 downloads in the first seven days. I don't know. It's making me think too early in the morning. That could be, yeah. Yeah. So what I would suggest if you do have questions, go to podmatch.com/report and you can see more of those details. We're trying to give kind of that overarching look here at it because, yeah, just to your point, too, too many numbers on an audio podcast early in the morning is not a recipe for success. So we're trying to give that broad look at these numbers. And Amanda, I think you wanted to answer my question just as far as sticking it out for 100 episodes of or more, do you think that's realistic for people to think to? Is that a realistic way for people to go into this thinking, all right, I got to do at least 100 episodes? Or do you think maybe that's going to be more challenging for people than they think?

17:26 So I'm always that just start person. I really, really am. However, when I'm hearing that, I agree with that. And so if someone's talking to me about starting a podcast, I may change the conversation. Yeah, while I'm encouraging just do it like it doesn't take a lot to start, but you've got to get to the finish line of where X amount of episodes is a reasonable amount to consider yourself like in being eligible to actually maybe take off. And so I think if people really understood and could digest, it could take 100 episodes, two years of weekly. That might prevent some of these people who think they really want to be a podcaster from starting to be a podcaster.

18:10 And listen, there's room at the table for everyone who wants to podcast. That's not what I'm saying. I just think people don't understand the the commitment that it is. Now I will add, if someone has a series, you know, they have a story to tell, it's going to be like part of a 12 part series. I feel like that is different. That becomes almost like just a a book and as long as they can complete it, that's great. But I think that goes into a different, you know, category of statistics, I would assume. So why don't would you mind sharing what are you defining as a series versus that continuing episodic? So if somebody for example, I many years ago listened to in the red clay and. It.

18:54 Was just basically the story of a person's dad who was wrongfully convicted. And it was just basically telling the son story of his father. And as this guy investigated, he became really close with that son. And it kind of like closed that chapter. It was almost like, you know, a miniseries on Netflix. And that's not to say that they didn't move on and do different types of series and different types of stories, but it was there was a start and a conclusion to that particular podcast if it didn't have 100 episodes in it. Right. OK. So yeah, they just went in with the intention of one season, basically of episodes, and then that was it. They just put it to bed and let it live there without any new content coming forward.

19:42 Absolutely. And maybe if the door opened there would be future content. But you know, when their story was told, it was told. So I think, but I feel like that has different parameters when we're talking about statistics. I think that has a whole different listener than somebody who's looking for a long term business podcast that they want to tune into weekly for the time that they're in business. Totally makes sense. Yep. Yep. I'm with you there and I really do think that I think that if somebody has that itch, they really want to start a podcast. And then if they hear something like this, whether it's from a person like me where they reading it online, that it's going to take at least 100 episodes to really find that success.

20:22 I wish more podcasters instead of were potential podcasters. Instead of giving up, would consider something like a one season podcast series because I believe like it. It's better to put out something and have it live out there because it's always working for you. It's available 24/7 and people will eventually find it that need it. And that could equate to either more listeners and growth over there, or it could lead to more clients, which is why many people start a podcast. And we don't even know where we're each of us are going to be in two years either. So I think it is easier to say, you know, after about 100 episodes because you could do one daily and get to that number a little bit faster.

21:05 But to get a two year window of episodes, you might not even be in the same industry that your podcast was about or something like that. So I even though I'm saying one thing, I'm also aware that that might not be for everybody either because their journey might have taken them down a different Rd. Absolutely. Yep. And I see Jonathan wants to chime in. Go ahead, Jonathan. Yeah. Well, I just want to say like, I think the two years is a good commitment. Mimi and I just hit our 50th episode we publish every other week. Let me make sure there's nobody here that's going to report back to Mimi. We just topped also 5000 downloads, which isn't, you know, it's, it is what it is, but we were very, very slow at the beginning getting downloads and it wasn't until it was about 10 weeks ago that we hit 3000 downloads.

21:55 It just started picking up with the episodes being there with having 50 episodes to choose from. And the numbers on some of the early ones have skyrocketed. So it does, it takes that time to, you know, for people to know about you, for people to really show up and actually listen to the podcast. So yeah, you got to put in the time. I think 2 years is is a good number 'cause we really are starting to just now see some of the growth there. Yeah, and you know, I think thank you, Jonathan. And I think it doesn't quite apply to the podcasting morning chat, right 'cause we're a daily podcast and so we're now at episode.

22:35 I don't know what it is, 335 or something like that, but we've technically been in existence as a podcast specifically for a little, I want to say 2 years now. I don't know why I've kind of forgotten how many, but it's somewhere around 2 years. And it's not until really just recently that we've started picking up as far as more downloads, more people tuning in and staying tuned in. That's really only just recently began. And again, that's from that episode from Steve from Blue's Clues a couple of weeks ago covering his new podcast coming this fall. It's brought in a huge audience for us, and I'm just now seeing all these other episodes starting to get more traction. So I think really it's something to think about. Sure, I do think quantity is something to think about, but I also think it's just strictly how much time you've been out there.

23:29 You know, it's not just sheer number of episodes. I think it does just take chronologically. It does take some time. This is very interesting because this is about discoverability, right? And everyday I feel like I discover a new podcast, whether I read about it or somebody's posting about it and or I see the creator talk about it or somebody tells me about it. And so a lot of times if the title interests me, I'll go check it out. I did this yesterday and well, my favorite podcasters referenced a podcast that he just listened to and I thought, let me go check it out. And I did. And the guys that like 350 episodes, never heard of his show.

24:13 It's an hour and a half long. Was like, oh fuck, listen to that, right. But I just think it's interesting about that. You got to put in the work to be discovered, but Discovery never stops. This guy's three or four years in with 300 and something episodes. And here I am a daily podcast listener and I've never heard of his show. I mean, there's 190,000 shows, so you just got to put in the work, right? Yep, because your show will can continue to be discovered and it could be a backup. So this episode #25 that somebody discovers and you're on episode #200 right. So I think it's an important lesson there. Absolutely. Thank you for pointing that out, Sid. I appreciate that. OK, let's keep it going.

24:55 Let's see, we did your top fives Dr. So let me give you some events to look forward to. Not a lot of new events since we shared this last time. So I'll kind of rapid fire this podcast Movement 2025, August 18th in Dallas, TX, Radio Days Asia September 1st that's in Indonesia, and Pod Summit YYC 2025 September 19th in Calgary, Canada. Also, the New York City Web Fest is now officially including podcasts as a category in the 12th annual celebration of Indie Storytelling. The festival runs October 3rd through the 5th. And just announce its jury lineup. It's another sign that podcasting continues to earn its seat at the table along film and digital media, and a solid opportunity for creators looking to showcase their work in front of a broader creative audience.

25:51 And of course, the Empowered Podcasting Conference is coming September 26th through the 28th. Charlotte, NC. Wish me luck. I have a call today with a potential sponsor that we all know very well, at least in the sense that at the very least, if you're somewhat regular listener, you've heard us talk about this particular organization multiple times and they haven't been mentioned today. If you're trying to figure it out, I'm only being mysterious because if it doesn't work out, I don't want people to have hard feelings about them. It's business. It has nothing to do with what they do. If if they were to say no, I'm going to be optimistic. It's going to work out, yes.

26:36 I think it will work out. That's right. Jonathan happens to know who I'm talking about. We had a meeting yesterday about Empowered Podcasting. So yes, keep that on your radar. Please go to empoweredpodcasting.com and get your tickets for the weekend of September 26th in Charlotte, NC. It's going to be a fun event and speaker announcements are coming out, if not today by tomorrow. So if you applied, you will hear something this week. And Dr. Do you want to take this last little? I do. So we just got through having a discussion about surveys and about the results and things like that. So there is another survey.

27:18 I'm hoping that everyone goes to the site and takes part in the survey. It is done by Colin Gray and he's on both audio and video. His video is called The Podcast Host, and the Podcast Host has launched its 2025 Indie Podcasters survey. It's quick to take part, and all respondents have the chance to win a Oh Hi, Loot it, loot, loot Ray or connect two. What are they? I don't know. I don't know either, Luet Ray. I mean, it's got to be equipment.

27:58 I'll tell you how much, yeah. So let me tell you a little bit about Holland Ray Colin Gray. By the way, it is a microphone. The Lewitt Ray. It's a microphone. Colin Gray. The most important episode that I hear from him are the results of these surveys that he gives every year. It's so riveting. And now I will tell you that he has a very, very beautiful but heavy Scottish bro. And it takes you a second, maybe a few minutes to really get into the rhythm of that brove to really understand everything that he's saying. But the results show of this every year that he puts this this survey on is so interesting.

28:45 So I'm hoping that everybody goes over and we're going to put the the link in the the show here. I hope everyone goes over and takes this this survey because it is really, really an important, important survey, OK? Agreed. Thank you. Yeah. And I put the link in the chat for those listening live if you want to go and fill that form out. Yeah, let's let's support the podcast host and support the industry while we're at it by filling out the survey. The more people filling it out, the better. Oh, hey, Hi, Nick. Oh, yes, Nick Naulback has joined us. Nick, welcome back from vacation. How was it? You went to Orlando, right? Hey, good morning, everybody. Yeah, we went to the new Epic Universe theme park for a couple days and then we have season passes to the other part. So we spent a day hanging out or out there. It was a lot of fun.

29:36 Awesome now, but you got a blast. We went to Harry Potter world or whatever they call it. Yeah, and now with the the new epic universe, it's like a whole another theme park that they built. They have another Harry Potter area, a dark universe, which is like a spooky universe of monsters. How to train your dragon. I've never seen the movies, but the the land was sweet. And then Nintendo World, which was sick. What? Was it Nintendo World? Yeah. I would love that like. You walk in and everything looks like you're in a Mario game, like Mario Bros. It's so cool. Well, if I go to Pod Fest again, which I plan to in January, maybe I need to plan an extra day and go check it out. There's a lot of things I want to check out in Orlando, including the Star Wars theme park, which I've never been to yet.

30:30 All right, let's keep things going and glad you had a good time, Nick, and thanks for coming back. Good to see you here. And all right, let's get into some news bites. These are some stories. I guess maybe this is the section of the episode where Amanda really gets turned off because I these are stories that I feel like may not create a ton of conversation and are still important to you. But of course, if anybody wants to chime in at any time, please do. Pod News reported earlier this week that Spotify has handed back the podcast linking tool Pod dot Link to its original creator, Nathan Gathright. So that was a a thing.

31:14 A lot of podcasters use Pod dot Link to provide short links to their episodes. And I believe Pod Link also directs people to the best possible platform based on the device that they're using when they click or tap on that URL. And Spotify had bought it, took it over and has recently returned it because when they took it over, I guess the frustration among users was that it also kind of went away as far as I understand it. So it's back. And if you're interested, let me see if I can give you any more insights. Actually, I'm just going to leave it right there. So if you're if you like that, go to pod dot link and check it out for new updates and information about the service. Also, Speaking of services, True Native Media has launched Pod Ramp, a new podcast advertising marketplace built to simplify the way advertisers buy ad space. It was designed to help smaller shows earn earlier through streamline tools and mentorship before stepping up to their existing service, Pod Premium.

32:21 So the goal is to streamline the process while still keeping relationships at the center of it all, which, if you know anything about podcasting, is really important. So Pod Ramp allows buyers to browse vetted brand safe shows wrapped by True Native, the company that put this out there and it to submit offers and close deals faster all within one platform. It's a move that could help bridge the gap between automation and the human connection this space was built on. And new data from Triton shows that YouTube is now the top podcast platform in Canada. We've been talking about how it's become one of the, OR if not the top platform in the US, but now it has beat out Apple and Spotify in Canada as well.

33:11 The report also notes that the overall podcast audience in Canada continues to grow, with weekly listening up 40 percent, 47% from 41% just last year. I'm torn. I don't know. I feel like I'm sitting in the middle of a tightrope and you know, audio only is on one side and and videos on the other side. They're both pulling because we normally read, I'm not normally, but we occasionally read sometimes where hey, so maybe video is not the most the overall platform that we thought it was, you know, so it's who do you believe? Well, here's what here's. So I have a question about that.

33:52 OK, go ahead about that. Very thing which is you said YouTube is the number one in Canada podcast listening platform. Yes, and happens to be in the US, OK. Is that from putting your RSS feed directly on YouTube or is it for uploading a video like I do? I, I don't have my RSS feed on YouTube. We just upload a video to my channel that says the trend report podcast, right? So is that? And if it is the RSS feed, is it video and audio or just one or the other? My understanding, and don't hold me to it, but my understanding is, is that it is across the entire platform of YouTube.

34:34 If it's considered a podcast, then it counts. So it could be video, it could be audio, and I think that's so. It's not specific to the RSS fee being added. As far as I understand, and it looks like Nick's chomping at the bit, so let's see what he wants to add. Do you, when you, because I know you said you manually upload and this is what I was doing with the AI briefing as well. Do you, did you create a playlist and mark it as a podcast when you set that up, Nick? Please don't ask me questions that are above my pay grade. I have a person that does this. I wouldn't tell you I am. I don't even go to the channel unless I get a comment so I have no idea. The next time you go login, go look for. I'm assuming whoever did it set up a playlist, but there should be a playlist and I think it says podcast right on it. Like you'll see your videos and then you'll see podcast. And if everything is showing up as a podcast and that's where the videos are being uploaded, that would still count if someone lands on that.

35:36 YouTube is counting that as a podcast, even if it's not linked directly to your RSS feed. And got it. So technically I can also upload my RSS feed with a static image, and that's considered a podcast, correct? That is, even though it's audio only with just an image. That's right, Correct. And I'm looking at the Trend Report podcast on YouTube right now and it doesn't look like you have the RSS feed set up with your. Yeah. No, we have never. We've never added it. OK, that's correct. OK. I recommend just doing it because why not, right? Like it, it may not move the needle, but it's never going to move the needle if it's not on that platform. So I would suggest doing that to anybody who hasn't yet. It only could help your discoverability. And I do want to say one thing and I've maybe said this before, but it's important to call out again, yes, when we talk about number of streams or number of plays, whatever you want to call it, YouTube seems to be the number one platform for podcasts US now Canada.

36:43 But the thing that we're not focusing on or it seems the industry doesn't stress enough, is the watch time. People watch or consume a podcast for much shorter periods of time. When they're on YouTube, the average is something like 7 to 8 minutes. Whereas if they are listening to a podcast on something like Apple or Spotify, they're listening to approximately 30 minutes of the episode. So good for you that, you know, if you're having all this wild success on YouTube with your podcast, as far as let's say it's the RSS feed, what we were just talking about, good for you if that's working well.

37:26 But how long are people actually listening to that content? Because otherwise, if you're not paying attention to that and you're not making adjustments to work to improve that listening time or watch time, you might be wasting your time because you want people to listen and consume the content. You don't want them just to press play and then go away a minute or two or maybe 7 minutes later. Look, it's obviously it's YouTube, but that's really putting out that information, or at least putting out the information as far as numbers go. And then other platforms and sources are deeming them as the top place. But let's focus a little more on how much of that contents actually being consumed.

38:09 Right. And I think that there's something else that we're missing here. How many is actually converting, right, Right. Yeah. 'Cause as we mentioned earlier, that's the big reason for why a lot of us podcast is to help grow our business. Maybe it's not the only reason for you, but I would guess that many of you that are listening right now are in this for business purposes as well as maybe connecting, networking, making stronger connections, stronger relationships. Sure, these are all good reasons and a lot of us are doing this as a side hustle or with the expectation for it to be a full time thing. Amanda, I saw you came off. Mike, did you want to add something? Yeah, I did.

38:51 So I think on YouTube, I mean, I think it very clearly captures hard stops of listening or watching, right. But I think when we're audio listening and we just have things playing, we are not always an active listener if we're listening to the podcast. So I think there is a manipulated retention there because maybe you're it's still playing, but you may have walked off and are doing something different if it's just playing on your phone. So I don't always think that's retention that audio versions are saying is accurate in my opinion. Because you think that they're pressing play, leaving it playing, but may not be engaged. Yes, kind of like that Spotify conversation. Was it Spotify conversation that we had or about the power usage? What were we talking about last week or so? That.

39:39 It was the energy that was being used by people just passing play and not actively being attentive and turning something off like a switch of a light. I think we just let things play out and then maybe we go back. Maybe we we don't to re listen to the part certain parts. But I don't put as much weight on retention because I think obviously if they check in for 30 seconds and leave, that does nothing. But if it's longer than if it's hitting that 10 minute. Period or more. I just, I don't know that we can really gauge it appropriately to say 100%. Oh well, they heard it all, though it may have been plain but that they hear it. Respectfully, I I disagree.

40:21 Look, I do think that you're right that people will listen to content, watch content and then walk away from it and it'll continue to play and that's going to count for toward retention rates. That said, I think that's currently really the best way we can gauge retention until the technology is really at a point where it's actually looking back at you, paying attention to you, and seeing whether or not you're actively engaged with the content. I think that's going to be the best way that we really know it. But I think that overall, I personally trust the retention rates with the understanding that, yeah, there are exceptions, that people will stop listening but keep it playing. But I don't think that that's skewing the numbers dramatically.

41:09 My opinion. Dr. Did you want to also add on to that? I think that YouTube is kind of creating its own monster because they are the ones that came up with these shorts and they're kind of training us for our attention span to be like a minute. You know, they are training us to do this and also IA lot of times when I'm watching YouTube, I am I have something else going on on the TV and especially if it's long playing, I'm like, oh man, just give me the you know, where's where's the link to get the summary of this because not into it these days.

41:50 I'm old, you know? Yeah. I hear you, I hear you. And I'm looking at the chat here and actually what Amanda and I have touched on here seems to have seems to have gotten a lively conversation started. Your example, who was it that I just saw? Was it somebody here just said that they will often times start some a video on YouTube and then walk away from it. And that was making me think about the way in which we're actually consuming the content, right? With YouTube, a lot of times if it's on our phone, we just press play, turn up the volume and listen through the speaker.

42:31 Right Now, I'm not saying this is every time and it's also an assumption in a way. But from what I've learned, what I've seen in my experience, people will hit play, start watching it, and then it's like, oh wait, oh, I forgot the laundry. And then they'll just leave their phone and just run down to the laundry, do the laundry, come back and pick it up, you know, wherever it is. And I think that it's a little different for podcasting 'cause I do believe that more. And I would love a survey on this, like, how do you listen to your podcast? I believe that when you're listening to an audio podcast or audio content, a lot of times it is more private. It's more intimate. You're usually using earbuds or headphones to listen, and you are more actively engaged in it.

43:14 And if you've got the earbuds in, yeah, if you forget, oh, the laundry, you might still likely have your earbuds still in your ears and then walk around the house, do what you're doing and still listening. I feel like, I feel like that's an advantage to audio podcasting. Don has joined us up here and I think Don was participating, yes, was participating in the chat about this. So Don, welcome. Glad to have you on stage. What do you want to add to this conversation? Oh, hey, Mark, I just your, your, your comment was fascinating about the stats of people listening on YouTube versus listening on to a podcast on their on their phone. But The thing is I just wanted to point out like a lot of people these days watch YouTube on their televisions, which is a relatively new thing I think in the last like 5 years.

44:04 So that's what I was pointing out. When I if I'm watching a podcast on YouTube, I will almost always walk away from it at some point if it's on my TV. But if but if I have a podcast, If I'm listening to a pod? Yeah. If I'm listening to a podcast on my phone, I usually have my earbuds in or my headphones in. I'm listening intently while I'm walking, working, moving around my space with my phone attached to me in my ears. So I just wanted at least from my perspective, that would be the difference for me in more active listening to a podcast on my phone audio wise. Thank you, Don. What a great point. Yeah, I think we've been talking about that during our news segments each week.

44:46 A lot of times that comes up how more and more people are using TV's and smart devices in their homes to consume YouTube. And yeah, that is a prime opportunity to be able to walk away from the content to do other things and skew the retention rates. I'm with you there. Thank you, Dawn. And Sharon has joined us on stage as well. And then we'll give Nick the final word. Sharon, welcome back to the stage. What did you want to add? Hello, Mark ET all. Mark, I'm on my treadmill. Can can you hear me? I. Can hear you and I can hear the treadmill a little bit and that's totally fine. Go for it. Thank you. I did put some WD-30 what is it WD-14 on it and it's still loud as heck.

45:30 But anyway, I wanted to say, and I put this in the chat consuming content quote UN quote is debatable because I'm on my treadmill right now, Mark now before your room started and sometimes, no offense, because I know I'm going to listen to these episodes later. Sometimes I am doing other places, sometimes before I'm on YouTube, I'm not watching the YouTube video because I simply want to listen to it. And sometimes I even put my phone in my pocket. That's why I say to really, I'm saying, how much of this data can we really rely on? The Mark Twain quote, I'm not in front of it now, but it says data is data is data, something along those lines. Anyway, that's my $0.02.

46:26 Thank you. I appreciate that. And yeah, I mean, it's an interesting conversation, right? Like this is we have to be able to trust the numbers to a point and we have to be able to be OK with, you know, OK, this is the retention rate and this is the situation. Sometimes people are reported as continuing to consume the content, but they actually aren't because they've just left it playing and and aren't actually engaging with the content. There's again, I don't think there's much we can do about that at the moment. I do think that there will be future technology. For example, I know that where my kids, all, all of our kids are either in college or recently graduated, they're now when you're taking online at home exams, it's watching you.

47:16 You have to have a camera on and it's watching you and it's looking to see if you are disengaging from the content. In other words, looking at Cheat Sheets and notes and books it it'll detect that and mark you accordingly if you are quote UN quote cheating, right? So the technology exists and maybe that will something like that will be applied to podcasting at some point, but it doesn't now. So I think we just have to trust the data as it shows. Nick, do you want the final word on this? Sure, I don't know if it'll be the final or not. I think 1 missing piece to this study that YouTube could definitely provide, they just haven't is you can pay for the YouTube premium. Some people use YouTube Music.

48:03 When you're paying for YouTube premium, you can turn the phone like you can shut the screen off on the phone and continue listening to whatever you're listening to. So I would be interested how many, one, YouTube Premium subscribers there are, like how many people are actually paying for that? And two, how many of those numbers play into these podcasts listener numbers. Because to me, I would assume that people who are paying for YouTube Premium or are using YouTube Music are a lot more likely to listen to podcasts like you would on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. And then on top of that, you mix in the people that are sitting down or pressing play on a video, let it run or whatever. So I think there's there's definitely like subsets of groups, people inside of this that are just kind of being all lumped into one that would help paint a better picture. I mean, there are people that use the app just like you would Spotify or Apple.

49:00 I don't think it's super far fetched to think that they are the number one platform. Yeah. And yeah. And again, I don't deny that they're the number one platform as far as you know how many people are quote a quote, consuming podcast. I'm just wondering, is it really the number one platform for retention? I guess, yeah, to be continued. Again, I personally think we just we got to take it for what it is. And I think retention rate is far more valuable than number of downloads, OK. Mark, Mark, one more thing. Go ahead. OK, This is what I got from what you said. I'm really thinking about this. OK, so at night, sometimes people listen to YouTube all night really, because they might listen to a continuous video with weights, sure, but they are knocked out, right? Right.

49:58 However, as you said, there has to be some type of metric for these. View Quote. UN Quote Views listens so we do have it open. It is playing on our devices so it has to count for something. So I get your point for sure. You make a strong one. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah. And you make a good point too. And look, those podcasts that are designed to help you sleep, they're doing their job. So the the longer retention rates that that has, the better for that particular podcast. They want you to fall asleep. And then if you're sleeping 8 hours, that's a legitimate 8 hours to that particular content. That's the way they want you to consume it. Even if you get up and get a snack. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

50:48 Amanda, did you want to say something? I'm so sorry. So whether I believe these reports are not right, I think they're subjective. But I think the point we all need to walk away with is even if you hate the idea of doing video, these statistics show that there should be a nudge to put your podcast on YouTube, even if it's just not the video format. I know we've said that before, but this just reiterates don't sleep on YouTube unless you're trying to sleep on YouTube like Sharon's point. Yeah, if you're looking for better discoverability, more growth, it would benefit you to put your audio or video podcast on YouTube. I'm 100% agree with you there, Amanda.

51:31 Let's go to, since I teased it at the top of the show, let's share a couple of Amazon Prime Day deals, specifically deals that would matter to you as a content creator. And this comes from the Audacity to Podcast podcast, and that is Daniel J Lewis, somebody who a long time veteran podcasting respected guy. He keeps a list of all the different things that are going on right now on the Amazon Prime sale and I'll share a few of them. If you are an Elgato fan or have heard us talking about Elgato products, you'll you've definitely heard me talking about it if you've been a part of this community for any period of time. I use some of their key lights.

52:21 I have the Elgato Stream deck, I have Elgato microphone arms, I have the teleprompter that is sitting on an Elgato arm. So it's an Elgato Teleprompter Elgato arm, and I have the Elgato Face Cam Pro. Now that I'm saying it all out loud, yeah, I am a pretty big fan of their products. I they are a little pricey, so this is a great opportunity if you have a tight budget. The Teleprompter is the first one that really sticks out to me because it's normally a $280 device that's currently on sale for A18999.

53:03 That's about that is about the best, if not, it is the best deal I've seen on the teleprompter ever. So now is your chance to get that and we will put links to these as well in the show notes and they are Daniel's affiliate links and I figured that would be the fair thing to do if we're using his list. Let's at least give him some credit for it. It doesn't affect you or the deals you get. It just puts a little little tiny Commission in Daniel's pocket. So want to give him the proper kudos. Also, I was just talking about some of Elgato's low profile microphone arms. These are those ones that I really encourage people to get, whether it's Elgato or another brand. But the low profile arms are great, especially for those of us using cameras because it really keeps a lot of that microphone arm off screen.

53:58 And no offense to Alex Sanfilippo, if you go and look at his videos, he's using a standard microphone arm and you just see so much more of it and it's coming in from kind of from the top of the screen. And it might be a little bit of a distraction to some people. So if you're not using like a lavalier wireless mic or wired mic, I say go for a low profile arm. And those are on sale right now from $100 down to $70. And you can get the overhead overhead boom arm like the one that Alex Sanfilippo uses also on sale. Same pricing was 100, now it's 70. They also come in white.

54:39 You can get the Elgato Wave Arm Pro, which is low profile and it has gas springs. In other words, it's sturdier. It can hold more weight. That's down from 1180 to 1:40. You can get the key lights on sale too. You can get desk stand microphones also on sale, but then there are some other products available as well. The Audio Technica headphones, the HTA THM 50X Studio headphones are slightly on sale and then all sorts of USB cables, TRS cables, etcetera. You can find lots of deals. We will link to some of those as well in the show notes.

55:21 And if you are somebody who likes Apple, you can get their Apple MacBook Pro with the M3 chip 14 inch screen down from 990 to 840. They have other Mac minis and other Apple stuff available. So best Prime Day deals, we will link to Daniel J Lewis's page. Thank you, Daniel, for putting that out there. We'll link to that. And he says he's going to continue to update it as he finds new deals during Amazon Prime week. So go check that out. OK, It is past the hour. It is time to wrap up. We are back tomorrow. We might cover a few of the things that we didn't get to today. We also might jump into which, please forgive me, completely forgot, but we had talked about the topic for tomorrow with Sid. I will go back and look at my notes for that. We'll do that.

56:12 But we're also there's a possibility we may have a guest either tomorrow or Tuesday. We're waiting for final confirmation there and it's James Cridlin from Pod News Couple of things we want to talk to him about tomorrow. It won't be news stuff. It'll be more general podcasting stuff, but we have specific questions for him. We'll share more as we find out the schedule, so stay tuned either way. Every Monday, well, I should say over the summer, every Tuesday through Friday, 7:00 AM Eastern Time, we do this right here, live on Clubhouse, live on YouTube, and available as a podcast on your favorite podcast platform. So until tomorrow, make it a great day everybody. Take care.