366 - The Secret To Balancing Great Guest Interviews

0:04 Good morning podcasting Morning Chat. Today is Tuesday, September 9th, 2025, and today we're launching a new segment where we play hot takes from podcasting experts and season podcasters, starting with Should your show be more about your guest than you? So if you're listening live on Clubhouse, sit to share bottom left hand side of the screen and share it. However, Clubhouse lets you. And if you're listening via podcast, please share this episode with a fellow podcaster. And now give us about 30 seconds and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here.

1:20 Good morning again podcasting, morning chat. Thanks so much for being here. I am your host Mark Ronik and currently on stage with me. My Co hosts we have producer Ashley Feller, Dr. Faye, Nick Naulback and Sid Meadows. And to those of you in the live audience, hello, anybody home? Our first day of the new week and we're waiting for our live audience. That was a thing last week and it looks like it's continuing. Takes everybody a few minutes to I guess wake up and join us. I am grateful to have a crew here with me to kick off today's discussion.

2:01 And before we do, first a little update for you, Empowered Podcasting. The conference is 17 days away. I just actually put that number in front of me today for the first time. I've, you know, had that general sense of how how close it is, but I didn't actually count down until today. And I was like, whoa, 17 days. And the good news is, is that ticket sales have been coming in as I've been promised by other event planners that it just take it people are last minute in general. And it is proving to be true because those ticket sales are now finally coming in. It looks like we will have a full house, maybe not quite the number I had expected or I was shooting for. I was shooting for around 150 to 200. Looks like we're going to be a little short of that and we'll still have a full house.

2:57 And I couldn't be more thrilled and a little more relieved as well. But this should be really a fun event. And I yeah, Friday with the new, the new addition to the event where we're now doing workshops to where I just felt it was really important to do some more interactive stuff than just having presenters sharing their knowledge, which I shouldn't even say just because it's a lot of great information. I want to make it more interactive. Yeah, Dr. Speaking of interactive, do you want to share? Do you still have plans of doing the improv or?

3:40 Oh yeah, I am. I'm going to be hosting. Sure, that a little bit. Sure. I'm going to be hosting a workshop with a friend of mine who probably, I'm going to say, introduced me to improv in the sense that introduced me to actually participating with, you know, in an improv exercise. If you, some of you may remember several years back, I don't know, maybe three years ago or so, I went to Dallas or yeah, Dallas, and we rented a house with, or I rented a house with like 6 other creators and we had workshops of our own for this small group. And my friend Chris hosted an Improv 1 and I was horrific at it. And I now, as you know, now have been taking improv classes over the past year.

4:28 I still believe I'm horrific at it, but I'm a little more, I'm a little more seasoned at it now. I don't know, Dr. So Dr. is saying that because Dr. and I got together this weekend. You want to share a little bit about that, Dr. We had so much fun it now the purpose had nothing to do with podcasting, but I belong to a mastermind group with David Hooper. And in that mastermind group there is the most one of the most beautiful souls I've ever met in my life. Her name is Zeta Christensen and she took care of her husband who had Alzheimer's and she has a podcast all about caregiving. And it got into her head that there's something about caregiving and improv, something about improv that can help the caregivers if you incorporate improv into your daily routine with them. Because what came out in the over the weekend was, you know, you have to do like little white lies. Where's my father?

5:37 Oh, he, he's donating time at the church. Don't worry about him when father has been gone for like 40 years, you know, that kind of thing. So you have to be quick on your feet when it comes to taking care of these types of patients And getting your improv shoes on is is really such a, it's a great escape and it's really informative and really will help you. So her nephew is a professional improver, improv improviser, improv teacher, improv teacher. And so they are kind of honing this program. And we were in the beta group over the weekend and I had such a good time.

6:20 Did you have a good time? I had a great time, it was a lot of fun and I was curious how it would work online and I thought it worked really well. Yeah, yeah. Did you get anything that you can take away for the event that you're? Yeah, well, that was selfishly one of the reasons why I I did this improv with you online on Saturday was to see how they were doing, doing something like that. So yeah, it it gave me it gave me a few ideas and really, if anything, reaffirmed some of my own ideas for running this workshop. So yeah. And I think that it's really good for also for those caregivers that you were talking about, just to be able to have some time to play, loosen up and, and play because life is very serious a lot of times for a lot of caregivers. And this gives you that opportunity to loosen up a little bit.

7:10 And I think the same goes for podcasters. I think that it it can help us think on our feet, loosen up a little bit and remember to have some fun. That's what I wanted to get to, yeah. Why is it so important for podcasters? And that's exactly right, yeah. Yep, absolutely. So I will be the leading that workshop with my friend Chris, who was the one that introduced me to it. Looking forward to to doing that. So yeah, empoweredpodcasting.com, you can go get your tickets, book your hotel, all at that website. So come join us there. OK, Now I want to get into something new on the show every now and then.

7:51 What I want to do is play a short clip from a podcast coach, expert, a fellow podcaster, someone sharing a strong opinion or hot takes about podcasting. And to be clear, we're not here to attack the person in the clip or tear them down. We may have a difference of opinion, we may not, we may all agree. Who knows? We will see. But instead, we're here to use their take as a spark for the conversation. We'll listen and then we're going to discuss things like, do we agree with the take? Do we disagree? And most importantly, why? And a little spoiler alert, a future segment when we do this again, we we have something from Matt Bliss and his podcast Rethinking Podcasting.

8:40 Not not starting with that one with the inaugural segment, but nonetheless, we will be having clips from our own team and their podcasts as well. And you know, I said a moment ago, most importantly, speaking about why we agree or disagree and Speaking of why, here's why I think that this new segment is valuable. For one, I think it gets us thinking about podcasting from different angles. It helps us sharpen sharpen our own opinions as podcasters and creators. As usual, I think it creates a safe space where we can challenge ideas without attacking people or each other. And it keeps us plugged into the conversations that are happening around the world of podcasting.

9:26 So when you hear the clip, think about where you stand. Maybe you agree, maybe you disagree, maybe you've got a story from your own podcasting journey that connects it all together. I think this is what these are the things that'll make it a valuable conversation. And I'm going to play this first clip for you. This is from podcast producer podcaster. Her name is Beck Johnson Bek, and we found this actually, Ashley found this clip for us on TikTok. So you can find this person at Beck under Score Johnson. And with that, let's play the clip and then let's talk about it as I prepare to get it back on my board.

10:09 Where did it go? Here we go. Let's talk about it on the other side. Tough Love Time Podcast hosts. The show is more about your guest than it is about you. We don't necessarily want to hear all your little stories and different things that you have to say every time you respond to your guest answering a question. Your job is to shine your light on your guest. It's all about them. If you want to talk about yourself, then maybe do not an interview, style a podcast or be a guest on other people's shows. And that is your tip. Affirm your favorite clear audio engineer. There you go. Thank you, Beck Johnson. So let's talk about this and I'm going to start with maybe more of an icebreaker question before we hear your strong opinions, although maybe you're going to want to inject it anyway, but let's try to stick to the icebreaker.

11:00 Would you rather listen to a brilliant guest with a, we'll call it bland host or a brilliant host with a bland guest? So a little would you rather question to kick us off? What? What say you somebody chime in? Would you rather listen to a show with a brilliant guest, bland host or vice versa? Go ahead, Sid. Good morning. Good morning, everybody. So I think this is interesting. The podcast host, especially in an interview is the guide of the story, right? And I think the, excuse me, the host has to be dynamic. The host has to be able to guide the conversation as to the conversation or the guest could take it in 1000 different directions.

11:43 And if your podcast is about, you know, X, all of a sudden the guest can be talking about Y. So I think that the podcast host should be a dynamic guide of the story. OK, and would you rather? So what if you had to pick between a show that had a brilliant guest and bland host, or vice versa? What would you pick? Said. I would pick the host. You'd rather the host be the brilliant one. Because the host can actually make a bland guest seem dynamic, right? The host, if it's, or if they're the host is really good at their job and really good at asking questions, they can bring out the stories from a very bland, boring guest and that can still have impact.

12:26 So the opposite way around, I don't think that can actually happen. So I would choose the dynamic host. Yeah, see that? And that reminds me a little bit of improv, because I think what makes an improv, we'll call it a sketch. What makes an improv sketch succeed is when you have a good partner and that partner is really playing to you, playing with you, not against you. And that I. Think it's also important, Mark, to remember that people in the podcasting world say this phrase a lot. They come for the content, but they stay for the host. Yeah, that's fair. And let's keep digging in.

13:08 I'm I'm curious, does anyone have a different take? Would anybody prefer to have the the brilliant guest and the bland host? And if so, why I? Don't agree that it would be the host, the dynamic host, that would bring out the brilliance of the guest. OK. Yeah. Yep. And let's check in with Matt. I think I saw Matt put his hand up. Go ahead, Matt. Good morning. Good morning. I think that it only makes sense that a podcast host be dynamic. I find myself so often looking at questions on the Internet regarding podcasting these days and just wanting to post the Old El Paso GIF.

13:52 OK in all those doors, Like, why not both? You probably don't want both a boring host and a boring guest. Yeah, but I think it starts with the podcast itself. If someone's coming to listen to the podcast, they've likely come for the host and may or may not be surprised by the guest. The product at the end of the day is the conversation, and that's largely what Sid was pointing to, a dynamic host with the skills to draw things out of whatever we call a guest, good, bad, ugly, whatever. I think that conversation is the product of what the podcast actually is. So maybe reframing this to not just be like podcaster or podcast guest as good or bad, is the material for the podcast to create a great product better influenced by the host or by the guest. And then you're not telling someone that they're a bad guest or that they're boring, but it's up to the host to make a boring guest good.

15:00 I don't often talk about feelings when I discuss this. That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to push the envelope with you, Matt. We're trying to get you into your feels. Yeah, touching the feels, the feels I get from that is ick. Like, I don't think I'd have anyone on the podcast and I'd look at them and I'd get halfway through and I'd go, man, you're boring. I have to work harder to make this podcast worth our time. You know, I think there can be two a great guest and a great podcast host that have a really boring conversation. And at the end of the day, if that's what goes out in the podcast, that's the thing that you judge. And invariably as humans, we judge other humans according to whatever we see. But I think that's that might be a better reframing for it. So the conversation is a better influenced by the host or the guest and then whether what makes that conversation a good conversation?

15:56 I like that. Thank you, Matt. And there's something you said a moment ago that I wanted to get to you, and actually several people have said it so far, is that people, audiences are coming for the host. So we want the host overall to be that dynamic speaker, that one that's really driving the interview and getting the most out of the guest. And I can't argue with that. And what about though, the new listeners who first stumble onto the podcast? We know that a lot of people go and search for certain kinds of podcasts to scratches particular itch, right? Maybe, you know, in our case, maybe it's a an aspiring podcaster who wants to really learn the insurance and outs of podcasting.

16:44 They find the podcasting morning Chad. That doesn't necessarily mean they know who I am or any of you are yet, right? So does that change anything when we talk about new people coming in? Because you, we could argue that the guest is bringing the content that the audience is looking for, right. If I bring in, let's say I bring in Pat Flynn, let's say I'm not the best interviewer. Well, Pat Flynn would probably still be able to deliver a lot of good information. I think about the game, about podcasting. Sid, I saw you bounced off of the stage for a moment, and then I saw your backup raising your hand.

17:25 So go for it. When I'm searching for a podcast, and I'm always searching for a podcast, I'm not searching for a guest name. I'm searching for a topic like I'm searching for podcasting. I'm searching for professional development. I'm first searching for real estate, one of my favorite. I'm so I'm searching for the topic. I click on the button that says shows and I look at the shows that come up and then I see that it's interesting. I'll click one episode and listen and determine if it's something I want to listen more to. So I'm not searching for a guest. Now, if I'm doing research on a particular person like, you know, Jeff and I want to learn more about Jeff because Jeff is coming on my show, I might go in and put Jeff's name and see what comes up and then listens.

18:09 I'm doing my research to prepare for my interview, but other than that I'm actually searching for a topic that I'm interested in and not a specific guest. I'm with you there, Sidda, and I want to go to Jeff who is has been waiting patiently on stage. Welcome, Jeff. What did you want to add to all this? Matthew had hit on it in the sense that I think we're really looking at a reframing of the conversation, the good versus boring conversation. If you think about it musically, if we go out and play a lot of concerts, we tend to fall into not necessarily boarding patterns, but successful patterns, but still patterns. You know, we, we play the songs in the way that we recognize reach the audience successfully. So if we play the show repeatedly or if we do multiple podcasts or multiple interviews, we play the sounds in a similar way.

19:04 We tell those stories in a similar way. Guests can do the same thing. They find where a good story hits in a certain way if they tell it a certain way, and if the host is not prepared to turn that story in a different direction, they're going to just tend to tell it the same way. It's much like Mark. You're familiar with Matt Rife, who's a comic and and if if he, like others, tell their regular stories, you're probably going to find them on another channel or another club or another podcast. But people know him for his crowd work, which is where the host or an audience member shake the story up and it prompts him to respond in a way that's unexpected and unplanned.

19:54 So I don't necessarily think, to Matthew's point, that a good host saves a boring guest. But I do think. And it doesn't even have to be necessarily a dynamic host, but but a host that is prepared to take a different spin. Sean, what's his face off of the Hot ones or Lipton off of the actor studio that's going to take common a common story or a common reference and still try to run it through a new lens can give a a unique take on a story that that guest may brilliantly have told 100 times. So I definitely think the host is the one can really make that different.

20:42 Yeah, Thank you, Jeff. I think that you and Matt are making some, some good points here. I'm going to keep it moving for a second and go to Nick 'cause I saw Nick was waiting patiently as well. Go for it, Nick. Good morning to you. Hey, good morning. In a very similar thought to Sid and Jeff, I, I think the host is the one that is going to really bring everything together. But as a listener, the most important piece of all of it is the content. If you become like Sid's looking through episodes and he he's looking for a specific topic and he lands on an episode and it's not delivering the content that he wants, he's never going to come back to that show again. He's going to go find something else that meets that need. So it really the content is the most important aspect of that. And a good host is going to understand how to deliver that content that the audience needs.

21:38 I could care less if it's Joe, Jim, Sally Bob, whoever. I'm looking for the content I want and who's going to deliver it to me. Again, fairpoint. So let me ask it from a different angle then. Is it OK for the host to inject their own stories during an interview? OK, so for example, the guest is sharing a story and that triggers something in the host's mind of Oh yeah, I, I wanna, I, I got a story similar. I, I wanna share that. Or do they step back and recognize that this is a a guest, This is for them, this is for my audience. To hear what the guest has to say, I should button up. Think it depends.

22:26 Why is that, Alex? Because it just depends on how the flow is going. As a host, you have a certain way that you do your podcasts and whether people like it or not. Because always there's so many people that like it and there's always so many people that don't like it. I've done that and I don't know if it's necessarily right or wrong. Sometimes it's right and sometimes it's wrong. I listen, sometimes I'll take it out, sometimes I don't. When you're having a conversation with somebody, the object of the host is to obviously make the guest look great, but at the same time, they're listening to the podcast to also to listen to you. I know it's not about you, but at the same time it is a little bit.

23:08 It's not a perfect science, but at the same time, yes, they they're on that show to sell their show or to sell what their their wares are, whatever their story is, and that's right, but constant is you. Now I hear what you're saying you're making. Your stick, I mean, without making it sound too, but again, there's times where it's not appropriate. I'm not saying it's it's appropriate all the time. I just think there's just times that it may be. Yeah, thank you, Alex. Ashley put a poll up here on Clubhouse asking is it OK for the hosts to inject their own stories during an interview. And so far, it's an overwhelming yes among the crowd. So I think people are probably agreeing with you, but I want to they. Like me? They really like me. I'm sorry.

23:49 I want to, I want to hear more about it. And I saw a lot of hands go up. And yes, let's go to Dr. first. Go ahead, Dr. Yes, I voted yes. It is OK because Alex said that the first purpose for the host to do is to highlight the guest. I think the first purpose is to bring forth the value and if the if a story from the host is going to spark the value, add to the value, make the value more rich and robust, then I say it's OK. It's important that it be concise because you do have a guest on, but also it could, it could make another Ave. for, you know, another conversation with that guest. So yeah, I think it's OK.

24:42 Yeah. And that last part that you said, yeah, I mean, look, podcasts, part of it is part of its charm is a lot of times it is a conversation, right. And that means and what by definition a conversation or is 2 people interacting, discussing something together. It's not just let me ask a question to you, get your answer and just move on to the next question. If I have something to say about it or to interject, I I believe it's my responsibility as a host to do that. I think this is a completely different aspect of the show itself, Not really what we've been talking about at this point, but if you're having a conversation with someone totally new off podcast, meet someone completely new.

25:26 A lot of times that conversation is a little awkward until you find some common ground. And then also the conversation opens up, you start having really good discussion on whatever it is like without you sharing anything about yourself on the show and you're just drilling to guess with questions. You're never going to find that. And it's it's just going to kind of be stale in my opinion. Thank you, Nick. And by the way, I don't mean to interrupt the conversation and I don't mean to bring it down. But for those of you who have been in this industry for a minute or two, I just heard from a friend of mine, colleague, somebody also helping me with Empowered podcasting. Jason Zerkone shared from Pod News that Todd Cochran, the CEO of Blueberry Podcasting and an independent podcaster, has passed away at the age of just 61.

26:20 No. So I don't like I said, don't mean to bring the room down, but Todd has been a big influence in this industry and a great guy. I didn't get to know him super well, but I do know he's a great guy and a lot and very respected in the industry. So safe home to Todd Cochran and our our best to his family and loved ones. So sad to hear. And again, sorry to bring down the room, but important to acknowledge and maybe we'll have more on this tomorrow during our new segment. We will see. But yes, rest in peace, Todd Cochran. That's a shocker for sure.

27:00 And thank you, Nick. Again, Sorry to take away from your share and I think you make some good points. Yeah, I mean, being able to share common ground, share relatable stories within that conversation early on when it's the more or less the first time you're sitting down with this guest, you're building rapport and you're building chemistry. So yeah, I do see that value there. Before I share a little bit more of my take on this particular question about is it OK for the host to inject their own stories and insights, I'm curious. Does anyone else want to add to this because I saw a few hands come up a moment ago. This is a needle that I that I try to thread a lot with the podcast interviews or the radio show.

27:46 I interview a lot of new artists. A lot of things they are hoping to do as aspire to do are things that I've had the opportunity to do already. So I don't ever want to flex or or undermine, you know, somebody's story with what could potentially be a bigger story or they dream of doing something that maybe I already got to do with with an artist, but they sometimes don't recognize what parts of their story are relatable. I am careful, but I will use my own experience to kind of ask questions based on my knowledge, maybe pull a story out of somebody because they realize I understand the story and I can help tell the story. Or maybe if their dad was a big star 30 years ago, they realize, Oh my gosh, you really do know my dad. You really did tour with him.

28:45 That makes me tell the story differently because I get it. I'm careful not to undermine and not to steal their Thunder. But I also can use my experiences to maybe get a little different take on the story once they realize and know what they're talking about. You got to be careful. Interesting. Thank you, Jeff. And could you tell me, do you have a good sense of who is your audience? Like you were using the the radio show as your example? Do you know who your target audience is? Are you speaking to other new artists? Are you speaking to music lovers? All of the above. And then I have a follow up. Well, the radio station that we premiered on and I'm glad to say that I've I've got a couple of additional stations we're talking to now.

29:30 The station that asked us to do the show, they do play a lot of like current new hot artists, but they also play a lot near. They very much have attention on up and coming artists. They also have a couple of shows on the weekend that are specifically 90s and 2000s country. So just me personally, my experience as somebody that kind of made their hay in the 90s and 2000s but also is very interested in developing new artists, that is who they kind of appeal to. So when we come on with our radio show, which is one part me and one part Maddie, who's an up and coming artist, and I've already been there, done that and I'm in Nashville interacting with new talent.

30:25 Then the fact that I can speak to a new talent, but also recognize that maybe one of the songwriters that they're working with is somebody that wrote things for people that I've worked with or see them doing something as a new artist that I saw Kenny Chesney do when he was getting started because he opened for us. And I can say, yeah, I saw that work in this case, and it's working for somebody that's a big artist now can be affirming or enlightening. I don't know if I'm answering your question. No, you are. You are. Yeah. And what I'm hearing is, well, I'll just say it. So I think new artists, if that's some of your audience, they're going to want to hear, in my opinion, you're Jeff, you're been there, done that stories and likely the rest of the audience is going to want to hear that too. And when I'm thinking about, admittedly haven't heard the radio show and when I'm thinking about what it must be like, I mean, I'm hearing you'll probably get that new artist sharing maybe a challenge along the way of writing that story or writing that song or a challenge just breaking into the industry. And then if you have a story that kind of supports and provides insight on how to break into the industry or your story about breaking into the industry and where you are today, it gives people insight and gives people hope that are listening to your show that that's what

31:57 they're coming for. They want the to hear the experience. And I think, you know, I'm thinking about it from a podcasting show perspective. If I had guests on, which we often do here because our live audience and even some of our own team will come and ask their own questions when they bring their questions. The audience wants to hear our stories and to hear our insights to help answer that question. Does that make sense? I think it makes sense and I would love to provide encouragement to a new artist. I and I do think that's part of it. I also think that at least in Myspace, a lot of new artists are doing daily interviews with radio DJs who don't know what it's like to be on a bus to drive overnight in a van or or, you know, brush your teeth with a bottle of water. It doesn't make me better.

32:48 It's just they just don't get it. The fact that I can relate to them can help me tell a story or help me tell their story in a more relatable fashion. Your experience with improv enables you to understand what a guest means when they say yes. And as you know what that means, does that mean you have to start telling stories about your first time doing improv? Not necessarily, but it does mean you can. You can ask the question that you already know the answer to this somebody else wouldn't know to ask. The whole part is great, but it's also the part of the fact that I may be the one interview this week that you know the story they're getting.

33:34 I've been there. Therefore I can understand I don't have to talk about having been there and which is why I tell a lot of my stories in the pre interview. I don't even tell them sometimes on air. I just say, look, if during the interview, it's kind of like, wait a minute, he gets it. This is why I don't want to talk about it on air. But here's my past. If that shapes the conversation, this is where I'm coming from. Thank you, Jeff. I want to check in with Sid because I think I saw Sid's hand up earlier. Go for it, Sid. When the time is right to what Alex said, it is, in my opinion, incumbent upon the host to interject and to share their experiences as Jeff was talking about, Share their ideas. It's not every question, it's not every interaction. But by you sharing your ideas, it actually helps to build your authority.

34:30 It helps to build your influence, right? It helps to position you. And part of the reason why you're doing your podcast is likely to gain influence in an industry or to, you know, be recognized as a thought leader in an industry. And so it's incumbent upon you to share those stories because if you don't, then you're not actually sharing the side of you. And I'll correlate it to this. I believe that podcast interviews should be a conversation. So, Mark, if you and I are sitting at a Mexican restaurant eating tacos and drinking margaritas like we did a couple of years ago, if all I did was ask you questions, what a boring conversation that would be, right?

35:10 Because it should be back and forth. It should be me asking you a question, you asking me a question, me sharing a story about what happened to my traveling while I was traveling that day, right? Or whatever it might be. And that's what a real conversation is about. And that, in my opinion, is how a podcast episode should flow when you're interviewing somebody. It should be a conversation that your audience is eavesdropping on and they get to hear and you get to ask the questions that they want to ask, and then you get to share your insights along the way. So there's definitely an art to interviewing, and you should share your insights when appropriate. Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head said that is that is the charm of podcasting, that it does feel like the as an audience member, it feels like we are a family on the wall that we are listening to an insightful, interesting, entertaining conversation. I really do believe that is a big charm of podcasting and it and it's 1 one way of going about it, right, Because there's lots of different styles of podcasting, not just interview formats, but when we're speaking to interview. Yeah, I'm with you completely.

36:15 Because if I'm not telling my own stories, if I'm not interjecting my own self into the interview, I think I'm diminishing my credibility. If I just sit back and I'm interviewing, say, Heather parody, one of my favorite interviews I've done on the podcasting morning chat, and I just sit back and let her answer the question and never insert myself it, well, all I'm doing is saying the guest is the authority here. The guest has the credibility. I'm just asking questions. So yeah, it establishes my authority. It creates conversation by asking questions, by injecting my own stories and insights. Ashley, did you want to ask a question?

36:56 Yeah, absolutely. I was just thinking and reflecting on what Jeff. Had to say how that if he finds something relatable to the guest, you know, perhaps I get it moment because I've been through it. I think that's a really clever tactic to share that without overshadowing the guest. So that got me thinking, what? Are some other ways that we as podcast host, particularly if maybe we're in somewhat of a similar position to Jeff, someone who's a bit more seasoned, how can we go about our interview while putting in our own flavor without overshadowing the? Guest asked. Anybody have any idea? Thank you, Ashley. Look, it can it can also go the other way, right where the host maybe is injecting too much and not giving the the guest enough time or space to, to share. So how do we go about finding that balance? That's a great question, Ashley and Yvonne has joined us from the audience.

37:54 So let's check in with her. Yvonne, good morning to you. What did you want to say about all this? Good morning. Yeah, I definitely share about my own life and stories in relation to the context of the conversation with the person I'm having, because my whole podcast is basically about exploration of of who we are. And it does need to be a back and forth. But I do struggle with, oh gosh, am I talking too much about myself right now? Am I, am I, am I flexing? Am I, you know, so, so it's something I watch out for and if I know, if I notice that I feel like, oh, I'm really trying to insert my authority here. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm pressing a little too hard here. I will try to back off and I'll listen to it when I edit and see if there's something that from me that I can take out or does this really add to the to the conversation for my audience? Is it important for them to know the context of why I'm inserting this, this bit about myself here? Is that going to help them see themselves in the situation more?

39:10 Because sometimes I'll have somebody on the podcast who is, who seems so amazing that it seems out of reach for a normal person to be able to do what they have done. And so I kind of want to be the everyman. And sometimes in those situations. So I'm, I'm blathering now, but it, it is a constant struggle for me to try to, to rein myself in, but also share myself because frankly, they do come for the host, right? They come for the guests, but they don't know the guests. You're introducing the guests. So it's always, I think, trying to be aware of holding that guest carefully for your audience and, and being there for that guest so that they'd feel taken care of and, and, and having your own, you know, your own authority show up as well. Thank you, Yvonne.

40:03 And I see Ashley in the chat says that she does that as well. She says she thinks it's smart. It allows you to have a natural conversation in real time. But when it's time to present the conversation, sometimes you can afford to take personal antidotes out. And yeah, I think I like the filter that you've created for yourself. Yvonne, you're asking, is this relatable? Is this appropriate? Does this fit with the conversation right now? I think that those are all all important things to ask yourself as you're going through an interview as the host. And one little side tip that I have done, you know, I use, I've shared before, I use the transcription service Otter. And I think a lot of transcriptions do what I'm about to share, but Otter will tell me exactly what percentage of the conversation I what, what's the word I'm looking for that I held?

41:01 So it might say mark 70% of the conversation. Guest 30. And I just use it as a gauge. And I'll look at those interviews and I'll see how did I do? Did I was this, did I make this an even conversation? Did I hug the conversation or did I not say enough at all? It's just a gauge for me to see after the fact how I did and it helps keep my awareness in check moving forward on other interviews. Can I just pop in with one more thing here? Sometimes the guests that I have on are experts in their field and sometimes the guests that I have on are more about I've had them on because I want to know more about their story and why they're doing what they're doing.

41:53 When they're experts in their field, I tend to give a little more rain to them to talk about the topic and that those are the episodes when I try to talk less. Yeah, I'm with you there. And that makes sense, I think even naturally, right, like if we're not the expert in that particular conversation and the guest is, it makes sense that the guest might have more to say. And I think that that's an opportunity as the host to represent your audience. And that means asking a lot of questions and follow up questions, listening to your guest and then yeah. And not not necessarily just sticking to that prepared sheet, but listening to their answers and then adding on by asking other important questions on that topic. Hey, Mark, you have to read the room in the sense of if somebody comes on to Jeff's podcast or even Ashley's podcast, that might be a really big deal for them. What you and Yvonne said was amazing. And like for someone to go on to Jeff's podcast, if they're an up and coming artists and they know who Jeff is, they're looking for obviously to get their name out there, but they're also looking for some wisdom as well.

43:14 So I think it has to do with how much you know the guest. Is that really how much leeway you can give them in some ways, like some of the hardest. And again, I know I do do I I do different interviews than a lot of other people. When you know the guests really well or you've interviewed them several times, it's almost worse. I think it because. You feel like it gets a little stale after a while. Not even stale. It's like you put your your podcast face on and your non podcast face on. Well, the non podcast face sometimes isn't always the best face for podcasting and meaning that you just let your hair down a little too much.

43:55 That's not good audio and that's not a good conversation. And when you don't know the person, it's not that you're not going to be professional, but like you just get too comfortable being comfortable. And if you're with that way with that guest, sometimes it can cause not the best flow in terms of listening. Right. It's like that. It does, Alex. And I think this what you're doing is actually bringing us back to what Sid shared earlier at at the very beginning. I think Sid was the first to share. And, you know, as hosts, we're the guides and it's our responsibility to make sure that this conversation is suitable for our audience. It's something that they want, right? And and so we've got to make sure we're guiding that conversation for them.

44:45 I mean, sure, we could have a very authentic conversation with our guests and get lost in it, but sometimes that may be irresponsible of us as hosts. And Speaking of Sid, Sid wanted to chime in again also. So go for it, Sid. Add two things and then a question for Yvonne. SO Alex, I love having conversation with friends and I love relaxing to the point that I can just have a casual conversation with my friend. I had somebody on my show early this year that I've worked with for 15 plus years. It was a great conversation and I got a lot of feedback, a lot of positive feedback on the inside.

45:25 City shared. What I worry about, which we also have to worry about in this room, is inside jokes and the audience not understanding an inside joke that happens and he and I both laugh at it or we all laugh at something, but the audience listening has no clue what we're talking about. So I do worry about that. But I love the relaxed conversation with a friend. Now I will say to Yvonne's point a minute ago, when I'm interviewing somebody, that is a topic that I don't know about. I say at the very beginning, hey, I'm glad you're here today because together we're going to learn something new. And I'm excited to learn the insights that our expert today has to share with us.

46:10 And I think setting it up like that actually breaks down any barriers that might exist from the audience learning about something new. But experts can be the worst people in the world to talk to because they know damn everything, right? And sometimes they just talk so far over your head that your law. So Yvonne, I'm curious from your perspective when that happens and the expert is going on and on and on and on, like how do you bring the conversation back down to a level that's understandable? Or how do you intrude on the expert in order to keep the conversation moving without them because guests can over share? Oh, that is so true.

46:56 Yeah. That that is when I really try to put on my, my, the ears of my audience, if you will. I really try to think, OK, if if I'm somebody in the audience listening right now and they are going on and on and on, sometimes I'll just stop them and go, OK, wait a minute. So, So what you're saying is blah, blah, blah, or ooh, OK, wait a minute. There's something there. And, and, and I'm going to ask this for maybe a purely selfish reason. I don't understand this part. Or, you know, I'll, I'll interject with something to say or I'll say, hey, you know what? Can you stop for a second? Because I think maybe not everybody knows about this thing that you're saying. Can you explain that a little bit or ask them for a personal something, something that's more story based from them, that takes them out of expert mode and into their own experience in life?

47:54 Those are a few things that I'll do. I like that, Yvonne. Yeah, I really like that a lot. I like, I like both stopping the guests when you think maybe they're getting off track and explaining exactly why and trying to get them back on track and asking them to tell a story in relation to the information that they're sharing. I think is key because that will really help drive the insight, drive the points home for the audience. I'm with you there. And Sid, to your point about inside jokes, you know one, that one that keeps coming up here on the podcasting morning chat are the hot Peppers, right?

48:35 So a new listener right now is looking at us and saying, what the hell are you talking about? Hot Peppers? And if you notice whenever somebody brings up the hot pepper, if you notice, I usually try to say why we're talking about hot Peppers. I'll say, yeah, that's how we do. That's how we get our attention. That's how people get attention to say, hey, I want to speak. They're raising their hand. And so, and actually, I think it's probably better that we start to pull away from from that because then it also gets too monotonous, too repetitive for our existing audience. If I always have to stop us and say hot Peppers, hot Peppers. Yeah, this is what it is.

49:16 This is what it is. So yeah, I just a just a reminder to people it's, it's OK to bring up the inside jokes, but you got to make sure that means you got to make sure you're bringing in your audience into the joke or else that it's just going to be a turn off. I think Jeff had something. Go ahead, Jeff. I wanted to bounce back to your earlier question, which, which was about our people coming for the host versus the guest, because everything we're talking about it should be the responsibility of the host. But you know, Maddie, the artist that I work with, you know, she interviews people with me as a Co host of the radio show, but as an artist, she's the guest often.

50:05 And yes, the host should be prepared to guide the conversation in the way that we discuss. However, I've worked with Maddie a lot on how to lead up because what you find out a lot of times, at least in our space, is that a lot of interviewers don't prepare and they don't know where she's come from or they don't know she's got a radio show. They don't know that she can relate to a new artist as a host that interviews other new artists. So as much as they should do the homework on the guest, a lot of times we as guests can do homework on our hosts and quietly kind of help lead that conversation such that it's a better conversation, even if it shouldn't be our responsibility. So I just want to remind us that we can do that as guests as well.

51:04 But Jeff, that also comes back to being a good guest and, and you're absolutely right. Like, I think there's a lot of guests out there that don't know how to be good guests. And there's a lot of hosts out there that don't know how to be good hosts. And, and I think that you as a guest want to get XY and Z out there, whatever that is, whatever your your message is. And I think that that's awesome that you are training Maddie if she's got something going on to know how to interject it in, in a conversation if the host isn't getting to it for whatever reason. And I think that's amazing because I think there's, there's a lack of training in this area because when I deal with actors, you think they would know what to say.

51:51 They are some of the worst interviewers because they just read the lines and they do that. But they're not used to being on their feet in this different way. So it there's, there's a lot to be said for that, I think. In the spirit of relatability, if I'm a guest with Mark and I've dug through his Instagram to the point where I can say Mark, I, I saw where you've done some improv work. You know, it's kind of similar to that when you pull some somebody up on stage that you've never played with. Or is it the same and make that a conversation, You know, or if I'm talking to Yvonne and and I'm saying I was a musician on the road for 30 years before I even did a radio host.

52:32 I didn't even start that till I was 60. And how that relates to what she knows in a different lens. It's not just about me trying to force my story in. It can be me taking responsibility to help makes the two of us relate to each. No, Yeah, absolutely. I, I, it's, I mean, we've all had those guests that don't say anything. They give one or one word answers versus someone that knows how to, you know, massage and knows how to give a clip and all the other stuff. Absolutely. I'm with you 1000%. Hey Sid, I saw you wanted to say something. Do you want to give us the final word today? Yeah, I think I have a good wrap up for it. Thank you, Mark. Sure. I've talked a lot this morning even though I did not get run over by all these people who have been crazy and thank goodness. So I was thinking earlier, I need to give one of you guys my phone number.

53:20 So or my wife's phone number. He's I do get hit in the middle of a sentence. You guys know who? That's right. I got your. Number. Oh my God, and. God forbid, by the way. These people anyways, derailing. So as a podcast host, it is incumbent upon you to master the craft of being a host, especially if you interview people. When you think about the word mastery, mastery is a quest that actually never has a destination. You continue to try to get better at your craft. You continue to work to improve. And you do that by practicing, by asking questions, by doing off camera interviews, by going to improv classes, right?

54:07 So I think it's incumbent upon all of us that host interview related shows to master the art of being a podcast host and asking questions and caring a conversation. And that comes with learning, education and growth that way. Because just remember that if you can never truly master any one thing, it is always a quest. It's one of my favorite shows. It's called Finding Mastery because you're always seeking to get better. Thank you, Sid. Yes, great way to wrap it up. I will leave it right there. Appreciate it and appreciate that you were talking a lot quote UN quote today. Thank you. I always appreciate everyone's insights here and.

54:48 I think we all appreciate that he didn't get run over. Too. And that too. That's why I've been late. I've been walking Lucy to the bus start of you know, to the point and I'm like I'm yelling at her as I'm getting hit. So almost, but. All right, and just a reminder to everyone, we're back again tomorrow, 7:00 AM Eastern, live here on Clubhouse and live on YouTube as well. And then of course, it's always available just a few hours after we go live. If you can't join us here and we're back tomorrow with news and comment. We will be covering all the headlines around the world of podcasting. Anything that affects you as a content creator, we want to talk about it and keep you up to date.

55:28 And there are some AI updates for you that Nick hipped me to yesterday that you won't want to miss and hear more about tomorrow on top of all the other news, social media, podcasting, etcetera. So join us tomorrow, 7:00 AM Eastern. And until then, make it a great day. Everybody, take care.