480. Hard Lessons From Real Podcasting Mistakes

0:04 Good morning podcasting morning chat. Today is Tuesday, March 24, 2026, and today we're getting into mailbag with some great questions. So if you're listening on Clubhouse, hit the share button, bottom left hand side of the screen and share whoever Clubhouse lets you. You want to join us live on video? Go to podcastingmorningchat.com/join us. And if you're catching us via podcast, YouTube, LinkedIn, etcetera, please share this episode with a fellow podcaster. Now give me about 30 seconds and we'll get things going. Thanks for being here today. The Podcasting Morning Chat is powered by Ironic Media, helping podcasters launch, Polish and grow great shows, and by Content Creators Accountant, helping creators build real business behind their content.

1:23 Well good morning again, podcasting morning chat. Thank you so much for being here. I am your fillin host today, Ralh Este junior filling in for Mark Ronick. Mark had a busy day yesterday, drove 8 hours, just gotten there and late in the evening had a ton of stuff to unpack, including putting together his mobile studio and he just didn't have it in him today. So he reached out to me and said, hey Ralh, can you take over the hosting duties? And I, I happily have layed no problem. O Mark, I hope you get things set U and I hope you can join us sometime this morning. But I just wanted to reach out to everybody joining me on stage right now we have Dr. Faye, Sid Meadows, Nick Naubach and Nikki AKA tie tutoring. So thank you so much for being here, and I want to start with a couple of housekeeping items.

2:04 The first thing is we will be returning to Obsession Worthy on Monday, March 30th. Jonathan Howard will be breaking down an episode of the podcast 20,000 Hertz. That's Hertz and their Hamilton episode. That's episode #36 we'll put a link to that in the show notes. And you can also reach that by going to our Obsession Worthy page. That's at Podcasting Morning, chat.com/OWP. I also want to remind everybody that evaluations are coming back on April 2nd, 2026. So if you want to have your show evaluated, you can go to podcastingmorningchat.com/eval and listen. I'm going to spread this one a little bit more too.

2:45 And now get ready for this Friday. This Friday, we're going to be discussing how to find 5 words to describe your podcast. I saw this as a question online and we want to talk about just 5 words because this way when you when you reach out to somebody, you want to talk to them about what's going on with your show. If you have 5 words, you can express to them what your show is all about. South, be prepared. Friday, we're going to talk about 5 words. Well, let's get right to our mailbag today and we are going to get to our first question. Let me open up the mailbag here. And this is actually one when I was doing a little preparation last night, I saw this from a guy named MO and this was on Facebook.

3:30 And I love this question. I thought this is a great way to start our discussion today. And his question is this, what's different about your podcast now compared to three months ago? And I thought that was a really great way to start the discussion today because I think about my own journey, you know, what has happened over the past three months. And I just want to open it up to people to share their things. You know, what's one thing about your podcast today that would have surprised you from three months ago? But let's jump right into it. DRI saw you went first and then I'm going to go to Sid. So go ahead, Dr. Well, when I think about this show, you know, we've changed quite a bit.

4:13 We now have these segments. We have the the obsession worthy podcasts we have, we have the money, you know, money Mondays, right, Monday money. We have a lot of different segments that we did not have before. So yeah. And we're, you know, we are not afraid to experiment. I think experimentation is vital in in what we do in podcasting. I think that's a very good point. Now, Dr. I'm going to call you out a little bit. The changes that are being made, or do you feel like they're all for the positive? I think for the most part they are.

4:55 I can't think of one off the top of my head that that has not worked out. You know, sometimes we come up with so many ideas it's hard to fit it in, know where it fits in. But so far I think it's pretty positive. I think it's just a another creative outlet. I love being creative and having a place to put that creativity, you know? I agree with you. Let's go to Sid. Sid you wanted to make a comment? Yeah, good morning everybody. So I want to add on to what D what your follow up questions, Dr. was first. So I think the important thing is about the podcasting morning chat is that, you know, experimentation is really good in the world of business. A lot of people talk about always be testing. And so I love that we're testing new ideas and testing new things and some will work, some will not work and the community will tell us, the listeners will tell us and Mark can make the appropriate decisions to how to pivot. So I think it's fun to be trying new things and testing. And for me, I've done a lot of that, a whole lot of that. Let's talk about that, Sid.

6:05 So what what would you say has your your three things that if you were really in the last three months, what was really changed in your show? Well, the first is the structure of the show has changed. So I've changed like what the intro is and what the hook that I that I do. And then you know what I when I say my name and when I introduce the show. And so the whole structure of the show has changed. That's number one. The video format of the show has changed that. Next Monday, the 30th will be the first video that's got all the full graphics that we've changed to using so that the experience for the 25 people that watch on YouTube will be a lot better. And hopefully we get more viewers over there. We have sponsors in this season, so that's changed as well. So now we have sponsor reach, shout outs and then sponsor ads. Some of them post threats, some of them not. So there's just a few of the things, but there's a lot about my show that changed and I'm super happy with what we've done, where it's headed.

7:08 And, and I guess the last thing I'll say is we changed our tagline and that was a big, that was a big change for us. Now Sid, you mentioned you're going on video. What did you decide to do as far as your video production method? What are you going to be using? So we've always been on video for like the last, I don't know, five years of video. Just never really paid any attention to it. So we just put it up. We put the Zoom video up there, we put a cover image on it and let it go. With this season, because our sponsor ads are in the show, I felt like we needed to do a little bit more. So we switched from recording on Zoom to recording on Ecam. So we now have scenes and backgrounds that look really good. I can, you know, switch the scene and it just goes to just the guest talking or I can go back to me and the guest talking.

7:53 So, you know, I've learned to become a video producer, if you will. And so that's really all we changed was the software that we're using and then the background and stuff. And then the ads for the we made little independent videos for the sponsor ads to go in so that the graphics and the branding is consistent with consistent with the rest of the show. No, and I and I, I use Ecam when I was doing a live show. I love the scenes and I have one of those stream decks. It makes it super easy to go and bounce around. So thank you, Sid. All right, let me get back to the main question. We've got some more people that have joined us now. And the question we're starting off with what's different about your podcast now compared to three months ago?

8:38 I'd like to have everybody else chime in before we get to the next mailbag question. Does anybody else want to share what's different about their show now as compared to three months ago or or maybe like this, you know, maybe something that surprised you from three months ago or you know, do you, if you listen to your show three months ago and today, would you feel different? I would love to hear from those of you in the audience who want to share your observations today. Another thing we could talk about is are you clear today on who your show is for? You know, one of the things that I've done over the last 90 days or you know, three months that we've talked about is I've really narrowed down like who my shows are for. And I think that's super important that you understand who your shows are for, you know, go ahead BC I see you want to make a comment. Yeah, me.

9:24 For me, I've always been, it's always been a journey for me. I've always had a vision of where I wanted my show to be and how I wanted it to present. And I've kind of had to accept that for a while. I'm going to be in kind of a flux situation till I find that kind of perfect standing point. Now, one thing I know that I've changed is for my show is that where my show is usually for the longest time been pretty pure interview base, where I bring on an entrepreneur, get them to kind of talk about their background, their story, you know, what kind of moment in their life convinced them or inspired them to pivot into their current work and what they do now. I kind of realized as much as I love doing that, I love giving entrepreneurs the chance to share that kind of story. I realized finally after some time that it doesn't quite fit with my overall vision of the show, where I wanted to really be kind of the entrepreneurs kind of hub for what's going on, what's happening in business, what's happening in finance and in marketing media, what's, you know, what the changes are, what the landscape looks like.

10:31 So a big pivot that I decided to make recently is that I no longer bring on people for the sake of having a conversation or having someone to talk to. I now make the endeavor to really look into what is happening, really pulling an actionable topic from the landscape. And then if someone who kind of fits that niche or that at least that topic wants to hop on, they can hop on. But their show's going to be more about taking who they are, what they've done, what their background is, and harnessing that thought leadership into that topic.

11:15 So the entire conversation can be about this is what's happening, here's how you should process it, here's how you navigate it. And then here's the next of the steps you take moving into your entrepreneurial venture. So it's no longer about kind of this almost passive, I'll take anyone who wants to have a conversation. It's more of this actionable, you know, how do I provide to the audience kind of approach. BC Would you say that as a system you've become more strategic in your planning? Is that what you're really saying I. Would say that for sure yeah. I'm no longer just kind of opening the door to whoever I'm very much like, OK, I want to talk about this. This is what I see is happening if you fit this, great, let's talk about let's have that pre interview and let's figure out how you fit into this and how we can really take what you do and fill in that conversation.

12:06 If you don't fit this right now, then you'll have to wait until I have a topic in mind that you do fit. I think that's a great idea because I think so many times podcasters just go out and put stuff, you know, just because they want to put stuff and I don't understand always the, the coherence to it. And that's why I love what you said there BC is that you're going out there with the intention of having a strategy. So I think that's a very good point. Did anybody else want to comment before we move on to our next mailbag question about what is different over the last three months? If not, we're going to go ahead and move on to our next mailbag question. All right, well, let's go ahead and let me get back into the mailbag here.

12:54 And this is a question from Buzz Sprout Facebook group. Now have everybody buckle up. This is an interesting one erson writes this. Need advice on what to do about an unhappy guest. Their episode has published yesterday, including on YouTube. They were aware that the video was being recorded, and there's a video version of the podcast episode published. They don't like the video. In their e-mail yesterday they said this, but I like only the audio more. Without the video footage of me speaking, which is too blurry and jerky. It makes me look tired and pretty old. I thought that was funny as Wi-Fi connection at my end is apparently not the best. And then today I get straight out threats. That's what the person said. The video of me on YouTube and today on Instagram has been published without my consent. As I'm the person shown in the image, it is my right to disagree with its ublishing.

13:44 Please remove it immediately from YouTube, or alternatively, replace the video with an audio and only with the stills that I provide. Otherwise I'll request to have it taken down directly on YouTube and make legal use of my personal rights. Ouch. And then they end it with what do I do now? And I just thought to myself, this is a tough situation. But I suspect this is not a uncommon situation. And I suspect it's really not about video quality either. In my view, it's a lot about expectation versus agreement and what do you do when that happens, when those things don't match. I want to throw this out to the room. I think the really the discussion today is consent versus assumption.

14:31 So I saw BC and then we'll go to Dr. So go ahead BC you go first and then we'll go to Nick as well. Yeah, this is interesting. I kind of want to say like, you know, going back to kind of planning, you know, if if you kind of lay out of what the approach is early on and they give consents to ultimately have that on video recording session, then that's kind of all the, you know, all the permission, all of the consents that you need from them to have them on that video platform. And I think anything kind of retroactively saying, oh, that's a bad quality thing. Well, that's that. I mean, I can't, I can appreciate that. But bottom line is you still agreed to be on this platform. We discussed what it is you I assuming you've looked into my show prior to us having a conversation. So you know, it's a video podcast. So and you chose to follow through with all these different steps.

15:27 So your consent is given. I can understand if you maybe want to talk about, you know, how you can up your quality later on if that's truly your issue, but otherwise this is it. You know, this still, you know, a chance to kind of give you some exposure, share your, your expertise to a new audience. So chill out. I think it's like the is it the is what I would want to say, you know, I can, I can appreciate it, but you gave the consent. We're here at this point. This is several steps later. It's kind of, I don't know if you can retroactively take that back. Yeah. And I think you make a good point and I will go to Dr. and Nick, but BCI think you make a good point and they knew the video was being recorded.

16:11 I mean, it's not some kind of surprise, but did they clearly agree to it being published? I think there's the two different things there. But go ahead, DRI, know you want to make a comment. I'm a little out of breath because I just ran from the kitchen. On the shows that I produce, we have a guesting agreement that they sign and it's. It's. You know, there's everything is in there regarding the fact that it's our decision as to whether or not it gets published. You know you're signing this because we're giving you a platform to promote anything you want to promote. And in other words, tough nookies.

16:57 Yeah, I hear what you're saying, Dr. The problem is, and I'm going to get to this in a couple minutes, you know, the problem is they can make your life miserable. But let's go to Nick. Nick, you had a comment you want to make. Hey, yeah. Good morning, everybody. So what I had done with my show back when it was running, 'cause it was primarily like it was 99% interview for every episode, I would, I didn't have a release form. But as soon as we would get on the recording, like I'd kind of prop them ahead of time, say, hey, I'm going to read this little release. You have to just state whether or not you agree. And we would hit record and I would read the release on camera and then they would acknowledge agreement while we were filming as kind of a form. It's still not written.

17:46 I know that's if it ended up going to a case, people want the paper. It's a little bit more ironclad, but it was still sufficient. And what I did like about it is even if you did do a release, or even if I did a release, I probably still would have done the recording acknowledgement as well. Because what are the chances that that guests didn't read it and they just signed it and sent it back and they didn't know what they were signing? And that's kind of one last like reiteration, like, hey, this is being recorded. I'm going to use it if I want to. And that's kind of where it stands. But one thing I also wanted to add, and I, I think we've had this discussion like in the past when we've kind of talked about waivers and all that.

18:33 If you're a guest coming on a podcast, there is some like bonus on the guests to understand that, hey, this is going to be published. And I, I think it's kind of silly when guests come and attack the host like this. It was, it seemed a lot different than like, hey, I, I didn't really, I, I felt bad about the recording. Like would you mind not sharing that? And like kind of approaching it like from a, a friendly stance as opposed to like just coming in and threatening right out of the gate. I, I'd have a hard time working with a guest in that capacity. But again, I, I kind of think if you're coming in as a guest on the show, you have to assume that it's going to be published in some capacity or any capacity. If you're going on there and recording video and you know, videos are being recorded, you probably are going to assume that that video is going to be published. I don't think that'll hold up in court, but it might. I don't know.

19:37 And no, and Nick, I think you'd make a good observation there. And I think as hosts, a lot of time we assume there's clarity. We sent out this release form, we assume everybody's going to read it. But I like what you're saying there because you're reiterating it on video at the beginning of the conversation. And I think that's part of the problem is there just there's a disconnect here. And I think the disconnect is where the problem is. But I want to share if anybody else has any other comments about this, go ahead BC you want to jump in there and then we'll go to Matt. Yeah, I think this kind of goes back to our earlier conversation about etiquette too, you know, when it comes to, you know, being courteous of the time that both parties invest into a podcast recording session.

20:24 You know, it's almost like, you know, if you're on, if you're being a guest for free on my show and you've already agreed to all these term terms and based on the format of what I create for this platform, and then you want to post facto be like, oh, I don't like any of it. Don't put any of it out. I almost kind of want to be like, OK, well, how about you pay me for the hour plus time I provided to you to bring you into this recording session? So at least it's worth my time to not be sending out this content. But furthermore, it's also kind of like, you know, if it's one thing where it's like you, if in review you realize there's there's a moment where you you didn't like how you said something cool, I'm more than happy to like edit certain parts out.

21:07 But I mean, there's got to be some kind of tit for tat here. You're, you've been given this free opportunity and I've given my time into putting this entire shebang together. You know, so etiquette wise, if you're going to make a big stink about this, I kind of feel like I should be as the host and the producer be compensated for now having to have this kind of big wrench in the works of my my production schedule. You know, you agreed to this. Now you're making this think about it with no like plausible foundational reason. You know, how do I, how does this going to be worth my time? Almost. Thank. You BCI want to go to Matt, Alex and then Nikki. So go ahead, Matt. Morning, everyone.

21:50 There's one component of this that I think no one's addressed yet, even though all the advice has been excellent for anyone who's considering it going forward. There's like this moment that this person deals with where they're at a crossroads dealing with this particular person. Like what do you do in this moment? Do you address their concerns? Do you give them a sort of you pay for this or it goes out kind of ultimatum? I think the goodwill component is something that's really underestimated as part of podcasting. And when I say goodwill, I mean, considering that there is perhaps more than just this person looking to start a personal lawsuit and make a bit of money off you because their video was shocking. And I think people worry too much about having to bring down their content.

22:42 It's OK to take down the video because you have more options than that. The first, what I would do if this was me, if I was the person who sent through this mailbag, is I would respond and say, OK, you've acknowledged that the audio can be used. I'll take down the video. And I would record something else as an alternative video version with my own message at the front saying that this person, you know, said that they didn't want their video present. So we're releasing the audio episode this time. And This Is Us acknowledging their wishes. It really there isn't a huge impact if you pull down the video. I mean, do the academics and the research about how much video impacts podcasts and their the analytics. Anyway, I really don't think it hurts. And you're not, you're not making a concession if you go to this person and say, OK, fair enough. I mean, that was a bit harsh, but I'll pull the video down and I'll upload the video, the audio only as a video version instead and do something else in between. And there are published versions of stuff like this. The version that always comes to the top of my head is an interview done by Alex G O'Connor a few years ago where he interviewed.

24:05 I always get them mixed up. It's either Peter or Tim Hitchens, can't recall, but they were talking about drug laws and legal use of cannabis in the UK for about 30 minutes. And then Tim Hitchens, whoever kind of just stood up and stood off camera berating Alex for about 20 minutes. Now Alex released that. Now, the reason he could do that is because Hitchens was standing there going, oh, you can release it, but you don't have a moral right to release it or whatever nonsense he was talking about. And Matt, I think you make a good point is that there's a goodwill component to this and that goodwill opponent has to carry some weight. Yeah, and it's relationships going forward too.

24:48 Like it's OK for you to worry about what someone one guest says to the next 20 guests if they encounter them, as opposed to just doing this one thing that has very little impact on the show. Now. It's completely different if you've got sponsors and you need to make sure that you're addressing their needs at the same time. But hopefully by the time you have sponsors, you do all the things that people have mentioned already, like release forms and declarations and all that kind of. Thing Thank you, Matt. I want to go to Alex and then I want to go to Nikki. So go ahead, Alex. Can I just real quick right off of what Matthew was saying? Sure. Go ahead, Nick. Then I'll go to Alex and Nikki. Go ahead. He reminded me where my train of thought was going earlier, the idea of taking the video down. I wouldn't be opposed to that at all. Like I don't want to like upset the guests or like I want to have a good working relationship with them.

25:32 But to to the point that I was making before, like if you're just going to come in a attack someone right out of the gate, instead of like being courteous to the host or doing any of that kind of stuff, I'm less likely to want to like work something out with you. Where if the guest approach the host in a more courteous manner, I feel like there might be more room for negotiation or kind of working through whatever the issue was. But it just, it felt very aggressive to me. And that makes me not really want to like help that guest out in a way. And maybe that's just me being me, but that's just kind of. I agree. Yeah, go ahead. Alex. I want you to chime in and Nikki, I haven't forgot about you. Go ahead, Alex can. You repeat the Can you summarize the question again? Because I kind of lost it because I came in and I came. Back, Sure.

26:13 Basically, the situation is that this person recorded a video and audio podcast episode and then after they had already gone live, the person said, I want that taken down as sort of an e-mail first. And then it got to a threat level where they're talking about sanctions against them. And I was going to talk a little bit about that. Is there's a concern here too? If you don't take it down, is the YouTube going to strike your channel? So Alex, that was really the question is how do you deal with this situation when you find yourself in this position? You know, it's such a like Nick was saying, and everybody's been saying this, it's such a delicate thing. But at the end of the day, you know, if the guest does it in a nice way, try to accommodate them. But at the same time, you know, I know it's about the craft.

26:57 Does it like Matt said, does it really matter? I mean, take the part unless it's something completely. I lost my trend. I thought, I'll just let Nikki go and then he knows Sid has to go. Go ahead, Nikki, and then I'll go to Sid. All right, let's go to Sid and then we'll come back to Nikki if she's available. Yeah, so I saw this question on Buzz Sprout and I read through the through the comments that she got, she got a lot of different, different opinions. I think the general consensus was take it down or sees me. No, leave it up. It's your show, leave it up. But kind of like what Nick and Matthew would say had said or Matt said, for sure I would take it down. I don't need any hassles in my life and it's something I would just take it down. I would move forward. I would take the audio down too. I mean, I would just remove the entire show or the episode and take it down and move on and learn from it and realize that I need to get a guest release form and in place. I need to make sure they all sign it and those kinds of things.

27:47 But I also think this is where, Ralph, you talk a lot about the about systems. This is where a system comes into place because the guests should have been able to see the show and listen to the show prior to it being published. And so this podcaster needs to put a system in place in order to do that, to solicit feedback. I do it every week. Every week I send a link. I get very little feedback on it, but at least I've sent it and I know that they've had the chance to listen and provide any feedback they want to. But at the end of the day, I would just take it down and move forward because I don't need the grief in my life. No, And I agree with you, Sid, and I agree with you 100% that it's a system issue. And that's one of the things I was going to say today. And I think you have to ask yourself a couple questions. I put together what I call a decision filter. And I think you've got to ask yourself what protects my brand start there, What protects my platform and what protects future guest trust because I think all of those things are being brought into question in this. And like you said, I think part of this is the future fix to this is always use a guest release form. And I like what you said, said is you send it out to them, you don't get feedback.

28:52 That's great, but no one can say, hey, I didn't try this. I think you in that guest release form and I'm not an attorney. I think you this is where you can talk to an attorney or get one that everybody's using, but be explicit. Audio, video clips, all three things, all of these things are going to be released. And if you don't want to do that, then don't agree to this guest release form. I think this is one of those things where we go to an Internet website and it says click here to agree. Nobody reads this stuff. And I think the same thing happens here with these guest forms because people are so eager to get on your show that you don't think through this. But I think there's also on the host side, we need to make sure we're putting out good stuff too. Because one of the things that nobody's talked about is maybe the stuff that was being put out isn't great. Maybe there is an issue here.

29:41 And if the quality is bad, you know, we have to just say, look, the quality is bad. We got to own that as the host sometimes. Now, did anybody else want to comment before we move on to our next question? I know Nikki wanted to comment. I know if Nikki was able to join us again, I know she had an Internet issue there, but I don't want to not give her an opportunity. Did anybody else want to comment on this? Go ahead, Nikki. Oh, I appreciate it. Thank you. I lost Internet there for a second, but I think all these are really great points. And so when I first filmed one of my earlier podcasts, I think it was either this past year or early this year, I don't remember when it was, but the very first thing that they had me do was sign a release form. And then in addition to that, and it was a Google form. It was simple. And the one thing about the form itself was that release forms are typically pretty lengthy. It's a long document.

30:25 Nobody's going to read it. Well, this release form was check box. It was type yes, type no to each question and then each question or it wasn't really a question, it was more of a statement, but there were some questions like do you consent to and things like that. And it was very easy to read. You could scan it, but there was no way, there was no possible way anybody was going to look at that release form and not know or understand what the expectations were of coming on the show. And it was very, very clear that this release form was there to protect the host and to protect the podcast from any type of legal action. Now, of course people are going to do what people are going to do, but I took that as a hard and fast rule that I have applied to my own podcast.

31:15 Wanted to make sure that every guest, every single guest that comes on my show signs this release form. And the reason why is because I won't post their episode without it if I don't have it. And I and I tell them that. And so podmatch has been great. Excuse me, Podmatch has been great in this regard because there's a step by step process that the guest has to undergo before they come on your show. You can do a schedule a pre interview. You can also put your release form on there and each step has to be completed before they go to the next, so they can't get to the next and have their podcast filmed and all that kind of stuff before all those other steps are completed. It makes it very easy for you to ensure that people are signing those release forms. The other piece, I was definitely in agreement with Matthew as far as the goodwill piece as well. So when I meet with the guests of the show, we do film on Zoom. I'm kind of new to podcasting, so I'm trying to figure out, you know, what other options there are. But we do meet on Zoom.

32:15 And the very first thing that I tell people on the show, and sometimes they'll ask, but I tell them, I say, this is audio only. And recently, though, I have switched to posting some episodes in video form on YouTube. So I'm doing that very sparingly to see how things go. But I always let the person know in advance, this is audio, this is video so that they can take a moment to get dressed up, look nice, get their hair done, put their makeup on, you know, things like that's so that they feel good about themselves. And when I start the show, my podcast is called the gentle year. So I don't film live. And I think that's an advantage that I have just for me personally, because not filming live really helps me to get clear on what the guests expectations are and what their wants and needs are.

33:02 Because I tell them this is called the gentle year, not the brutal year. I'm not here to, you know, ream you over the coals or anything like that. So if there's something that you said or something that just came up or manically that you didn't like, let me know. I can re ask you the question. We can skip over that part. I can edit it out, you know, things like that just to really make the guests feel at home, make them feel comfortable, make them hopefully want to come on the show again. But I will say this, I do draw a hard line in the sand when it comes to disrespect. And if I had gotten an e-mail like that from a human being, I would have to, I would probably, it depends on the situation, of course, but I would probably cut ties with that person. I would remove all of the content involving that person because I would want to have nothing to do with them because they've shown me, they've shown me that they can't, that they're going to come in hot.

33:51 They're going to treat me like I'm nothing and they're going to they're going to disrespect my show. And I draw a very, very, very hard line in the sand when it comes to those things. So I would probably cut them off and they would never come back. Well said, Nikki, and I'm going to leave it with that and move on to the next question. So let's move on to our our next mailbag question, and this one comes to us from podcasters on Facebook, a fellow named Chris, and Chris writes this. So I'm new to podcasting and I'm really trying to grow. I've got my first episode and I'm looking for feedback. Most groups don't allow posting links to it. So how do I go about getting feedback? I joined Reddit and it was a toxic cesspool. Now these are his words. I got banned within 5 minutes from a podcasting group because I didn't have karma. Well, I made a new account.

34:34 Am I? So am I missing something here? It's very frustrating to get followers when I can't share my podcast anywhere. And I saw this question. I said this is a really good question so I want to thread it out to the group. DRI saw you were first, so go ahead Dr. Yeah, so, so almost every group has specific days that you can promote or put in a link or something like that. You have to be really cognizant of reading the guidelines for that particular group. Yeah, that's, that's what I would say. And As for Reddit, you know, the again, there are different days, there's several different podcast subreddits and maybe one day is dedicated to gear, another day would be dedicated to promotion, another day would be dedicated to feedback, things like that.

35:30 So again, read the guidelines for that particular day. I think that's well said and I'm going to throw in something. I'm going to go to Matt next, but I'm going to throw in something and listen, here's the thing with the podcasting morning chat. You're welcome to submit your show for evaluation here. It's a bunch of people who have a heart for podcasting, would love to listen to it and give you feedback. And you can do that by going to podcastingmorningchat.com/E Val. Again, that's we'll put that in the show notes, but podcasting morning chat.com/E Val, go ahead. Matt, you're up next. Thank you. I'm going to say 2 main things about this particular type of things comes up all the time. The first thing is that when this happens to someone who tries to post about their podcast on a platform and they get taken down or banned or whatever, they often conflate self promotion with what the social media communities consider self promotion. There is a major difference between you talking about a topic on a community and mentioning offhandedly 6 comments deep that you have an episode about that and posting in a random Reddit thread that you've got had no input in before.

36:38 This is the karma thing with Reddit. Every time you post or interact you gain karma throwing out the new episode. You'll be interested. You guys love this stuff. Right? Click this link and you know like subscribe whatever. I think that second one, most people kind of detest a little bit and some platforms are a little bit more about it and some aren't, some aren't. Reddit definitely is not a place where you want to engage in self promotion. And the reason that they create those threads that Dr. was talking about where you can do the self promotion thing and share your new episodes, it's largely A honeypot to pull it out of the regular content and I don't think people really engage with it all that much. Whereas LinkedIn on the other hand seems to be a place where you can just talk about yourself ad nauseam and all your things and nothing gets taken down there. But those are completely different forms of social media. So don't conflate self promotion, the act of marketing yourself, with what people are complaining about, which is the self promo post kind of thing.

37:45 If you're outward with it, if you're completely overt with it, that tends to be what rankles people a little bit. And we'll get you know why it's in the rules and stuff. Right. But you know, Matthew, also what works is if you, especially on Facebook, if you DM the administrator personally and say, listen, I really, I'm not in it for self promotion, but I'd love to get some feedback on my, on my show. Can I please put a link in? They will either come back and say, you know what, sure, that'll be fine. Or you can do that on Wednesday. You can do that on, you know, we do that Tuesdays or something like that. But when you put your link in you you open up with. This has been approved by the administrator and blah blah blah blah.

38:31 Well, that takes it back to the next stage, which I'd talk about. I had a second point, forgotten what it is, but let's keep going with this. Whether the impact of making a post like that is worth the time and effort for you trying to engage the admins to approve it. And often times it is the case that you're keen enough to get it out there that they should make it happen there. But for every legitimate, you know, engaged 10,000 person strong podcasting group on Facebook, there are 20 to 50 other groups that are podcast promos. You can self promote here, asterisk, asterisk, whatever amount of emojis you want. And people just hammer out the posts all over those those groups with the hopes that someone will click. And it's the same method that spam people use to spam others. Like it costs them nothing to send out phishing emails to 10,000 people.

39:26 They just need five people to click. But it's not as effective for us as podcasters, I think. It's a fine line when someone is posting something like that and they truly want feedback. Tell me what you don't like about this. Tell me the good parts, tell me the bad parts. It's a fine line between are you promoting this or do you really want feedback? That's the thing, and it's the let's call it the ick. It's the ick that people get on the Internet these days and making sure that your copy is strong enough and clear enough that's not your intention or having a reputation on a group of platform that you are genuine with what you're looking for, I think that becomes the harder thing. Thanks, Matt. I want to go to BC Alex and then Sid wants to chime in, but go ahead BC.

40:08 Yeah. 1 clarifying question. Are we under the assumption that this person has no, outside of their podcasting page or their podcasting platform, they have no other kind of inherent following from their personal social media. They've never done social media before. So they're truly starting from some kind of like scratch position when it comes to having any kind of preeminent audience to just reach out to and say, hey, guys, I'm doing this now. I would love any kind of feedback for my, you know, friends who are already podcast lovers, check out my show, kind of give me some kind of feedback. And then outside of that, I would say look for guesting opportunities, you know, if you're doing this brand new thing, if it's especially if it ties into either a hobby that that you can find a niche podcast conversation for or if it's for business, something like that, you know, find a correlating guesting opportunity and you know.

41:00 Go ahead, Alex is. That audience to get some feedback. No, I think that's. Kind of two points there. Yeah, I think that's a good point BC and I think you have to start there. Look at the people that surround you. But go ahead, Alex. And then I want to go to Sydney. Yeah, I deal with this a lot, or I used to with my old show and it just comes down to you have to find your people. I mean, when I was doing my From show, we were in probably 5 to 6 different Facebook groups and you know, we messaged the admins to see if we could post our links because people wanted. It was a race against time. You know, the show drops on Sunday. It was live, whatever else. But at the end of the day, if you can't find your people, like I don't know anything, I read it. So I don't know about the karma stuff, but you know, there's groups for everything and you have to just be involved in that group and build and build a reputation of trust.

41:52 And then usually they'll let you post in a lot of cases. So I'll let said go on. Thanks, Alex. So, yeah, I have a lot of thoughts about this because this guy was, I saw this also on Facebook. This guy was asking for help. He obviously is very passionate about what he's doing. He's not getting a lot of feedback. He doesn't have a lot of followers. It's not getting a lot of downloads. He was asking for help. And so the podcasting community should have jumped in and helped him, right? This is in general I'm saying that, but you know, but he also, I think he's asking for help in the wrong place, like because we as a collective occasionally will review strategically and methodically and thoughtfully review people's podcasts when they submit them, right?

42:35 He's asking just random people he doesn't know to review his podcast and provide feedback and opinions are like butt holed. Everybody's got one. They all stink, right? And so he's asking the wrong people for feedback. Which leads me to my Third Point, which is I don't know that this guy knows who his audience is. I don't know that he knows what his show is about or who it's really for. Because that's who I would go ask. I would go ask the people that are my ideal listener what they think about the show and ideas of ways I can market it. But I think Matt said it earlier, maybe BC said it like, get on the socials and start telling people about it. Wherever you are, you've got some limit, you've got some following.

43:15 If it's only 10 people, start telling people about it. And then ask people to, if they enjoy the show, ask people to share it with a friend. I mean, podcast marketing is hard. It is very, very organic and it's going to take time. But I don't know that this guy knows who his audience is, because if he did, he should start there. I think you're right, Sid. And another thing that I want to throw out there that I've done a lot of done a lot of this on LinkedIn is I go out and comment on other people's posts. And I think you can build some rapport there. You can build some trust, You can build those relationships, which I think is super important because one of the things that I've noticed and I've not been in podcasting for, I guess it's been four or five years, but I kind of call it guerrilla marketing for a little bit.

43:59 Because I go out there and I go and talk to people. I go interact with their posts. I'm interacting with people I shouldn't be interacting with, but I just go out there and post something or I reach out to them. I've been on people's shows that I never thought I'd ever get on because I just went and asked. And Mark put something in the comments a few minutes ago about, you know, asking an admin. If you don't ask, you're never going to get an answer. And I think that's one of the things that I would say as a new podcaster, if you want feedback for you, go give feedback to other people. Go interact with other people in your niche or in the area of which you're speaking. Go find out who the players are in that. And I think that would be super effective to helping you build up that feedback loop.

44:39 And I don't know if anybody else wanted to comment on this topic, but I think that's part of it. And if you go out to these big communities, I just don't think that dropping links in, I think they're low value. I don't think at all they work. I think the end of the day, and you hear me say this on the show all the time, it's about building relationships 1 by 1, building a reputation. That's where you go find smaller communities. Maybe you go find that niche that you're speaking in, be honest with other people, give feedback. I think that's where you're going. Because the truth is you are going to get banned if you're out there just promoting. First of all, nobody's looking at that stuff. I look at those online and I go, it's a promotion wagon. No, but nobody's doing anything with that.

45:21 The question you have to ask yourself, and I'm going to go to Matt here in a second. The question you have to ask yourself, how do I share my show, how to become someone worth listening to? And I think, Sid, the other thing you said, which I want to trumpet, is that what is your why? Who are you speaking to? Who is your audience? But go ahead, Matt, I saw you want to make a comment. Just to build on what you're saying there, a piece of advice I have for a lot of people, usually for editors, people who are trying to cut into the, the freelance podcast editing space is to create podcast friends. And if you've got a podcast already, it's easy for you to do that. But when I say podcast friends, podcasters, it means that you can spread your net wide and do all the things you're talking about. Ralph, creating those relationships is really good.

46:03 And they may not be necessarily directly in your field, but having a network of podcasters that you love hanging out with and talking to and being great friends with them. I mean, you might consider this is the kind of place where you do that. It's it just, it creates so many opportunities that you wouldn't consider and you can't even academically theorize about in a conversation like this. Like I've met people in America. Oh, you guys, Mark, I even connected with a podcast called the Super Bracket Bros, which connected me to your friendly neighborhood gamers, which connected me to a bunch of other shows. And you just you can't under underestimate having a great podcast at Community. I think it's a great way to achieve what you're talking about there, Ralh.

46:45 All right, I want to throw this last question out to the room because I really think this nails what we're talking about today. What's one thing you could do this very week to earn your first ten real listeners instead of chasing 1000 random ones? Because I think a lot of times that's what we do. We go chase after those big 10,000 download numbers or those thousand random ones. Does anybody in the group now want to comment on that? What is the thing that you could do this week? Because I really want to give this person some answers to their question. What is the way that you can earn 10 real listeners this week? Go ahead, Sid. That's a really great question, and I would reach out to 10 people that I know that are the ideal listener for my show and ask them to listen to the show and to give me feedback. The 10 people, whether that's on Facebook or Instagram or LinkedIn or just 10 people that you happen to have in your phone, dial their numbers.

47:37 Excuse me, Tell them you started a podcast. Do you think they might really like it and you'd love to share the link with them so that they could listen in and give you feedback on the show? Maybe you don't ask that last part of that question, but reach out to 10 people individually. Great idea. Let's go to BC and then I'm going to go to Matt. Yeah. I would say for me, one thing I noticed over time that has really shifted for me is my is the availability that I have to really put myself back into a sequential promotional vibe. Years ago, I used to be able to fully produce the show. I would pinpoint like the best possible promotional teaser, create that, promote the episode.

48:17 Once the episode goes out, push it with several more clips and promoted through my blog and like really hit all the different digital platforms that I had facilitated to speak to different segments of my audience and really give every episode it's due moment. And over time, the shifting in my own time has taken me away from that. So I feel like if I could return to that, because I got really good engagement back in that back in those days, if I could return to that and just kind of remove whatever else was ancillary from my table, then I feel like I would be able to really get back to that solid bang for my buck kind of promotional sequence I used to do.

49:00 I'm going to go to Matt in a second BC but I want to just go into that for a second because I think what you're saying is I want to be intentional. And I think that as podcasters, we have to be intentional. There's a great amount of creativity and what we do. I get it. But I what I hear you saying, correct me if I'm wrong, but you want to be intentional in your promotion strategy, Is that what I hear you saying? Intentional, but also have the time to provide that intentionality. That's what I feel like I'm lacking is the time to really have the follow through with that intentionality I love. That that'd be a great topic for another day, is time management for podcasters. I think that's really what you're getting at. But Matt, I want you to go ahead and make the final comment and then we'll bring this to a closure today. It's going to be a tip wrapped in what I said before. Having a great podcaster network is great. That means they have podcasts.

49:46 I would suggest that if you can have some like minded podcast of friends in mind, approach them with your first episode and encourage a feed drop, which means that you put your episode in their feed if they're open to it. Maybe you give them a guest spot on your show in recompense, but exposing your episode across a number of established audiences already can be a great way to get those first few listens. They may not come through your analytics, but if they're interested enough, you can even get some feedback on the episode from that audience as well. Well said, Matt, and I think that's a great way to end today. Listen, I just want to thank everybody for participation today. One of the things that I've been calling out, the end of each show, if you'd like to support the show, if you're getting value from the show, 1 of the ways you can do that is by going to podcastingmorningchat.com/support.

50:31 We've set up a Buy Me a Coffee. Now this isn't an actual coffee thing, but if you want to throw some coffee dollars there, again, that's at Podcasting. Morning chat.com/support and don't forget to join us. Tomorrow is our weekly news show and everybody have a great day today. Thank you so much for being here this morning.