How Great Hosts Use Storytelling To Hook Listeners Instantly

0:04 Good morning podcasting Morning Chat. Today is Monday, December 8th, 2025, and today our obsession worthy podcast series continues with Everything Is Alive, a podcast that tosses out interview norms to create immersive, unexpected moments that build connection and keep listeners hooked. So if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, bottom left hand side of the screen and share it. However, Clubhouse lets you. And if you're catching us via podcast chatter, YouTube, please share this with a fellow podcaster. And now give us about 30 seconds and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here. Good morning again, podcasting, Morning Chat. Thank you so much for being here. I am your host Mark Ronick and currently on stage with me. We've got a full house this morning. Producer Ashley Fellers back Nick Null back Dr. Faye. Sid Meadows is also back.

1:36 Jonathan Howard, Ralph E Step and we also have BC Babbles and Cliff Ravenscroft on stage with us as well. And good morning to Greg and Tim, who are in the audience bright and early this morning. Thank you for being here. Appreciate it. Hope everyone had a great weekend. Let me first say good morning to you, Ashley. How was your trip? You went to the Bahamas, right? Hey, good morning. It was fantastic. Yeah, we went to the Bahamas and we also went to Green Cayman. Awesome. Any one thing that sticks out that you'd want to share with us? No pressure. Just that it was the first family vacation we had, the four of us in really 20 years, I'd say that, yeah. OK, that's a that's a good one to share.

2:17 Thank you for sharing and I'm glad you had a great time. We missed you. Welcome back. And Speaking of missing people, Sid is back as well. Unfortunately not quite the same type of break as Ashley. And we did share, Sid, that Sid. Yeah, did in fact, unfortunately his mother passed away early last week. And Sid, thank you for being here only a week later. I hope you're doing well. How are you? Good morning, everybody. Thank you, Mark, for those wishes. I'm doing great. I'm glad to be back. You know, my mother had had a very long battle with diabetes, heart disease and dementia of the last several years. And, you know, it was really sad, but we knew it was coming on Sunday when I left to go over there. We knew that this would be the week or that would be the week and just she was in a really bad place. But my brother and I, my family, it was great to be surrounded by by all my cousins and nieces and nephews this past week. But my mother is finally at peace. And that's what we look to is that she's resting now and no longer in pain and agony and suffering. It was a beautiful service.

3:26 And so I thank you all for letting me take the time off. I'm glad to be back. I'm glad to be back to some form of normalcy last week because very long and hard week for a lot of different reasons, but I'm certainly glad to get back to get back to normalcy here. Thank you. I'm sure you're welcome, Sid. And yeah, I'm glad that she is at peace. Now, as you were sharing that particular moment, I got chills. I got goosebumps, which to me, yes, I am a little bit woo, a little bit spiritual. That's a sign that she's with us and confirmation that she is at peace. So whether that sticks with you or not Sid, it sticks with me and we're we are so glad that you're back and that she is at peace.

4:09 OK with that Couple other housekeeping things before we get to Jonathan's obsession worthy podcast series here on the podcasting morning chat. We have another episode to evaluate this Thursday. This a lot of times comes from our own audience and sometimes outside of our audience as well. We've got a dozen, dozen and a half different entries, and we've gone through a handful of them so far this week. We are evaluating somebody else from the Empowered Podcasting Conference community. His name is Michael Messner. His show is called Carefree Highway Revisited. The show's focus is on the songs of singer-songwriter from the 1970s, Gordon Lightfoot. So we will, it's about 1/2 hour episode. I will share, Don't worry team, I'll share with you links. As far as how to listen, you can find it on Pod Beam and wherever you find your podcasts.

5:09 Again, the name of this show is Carefree Highway Revisited. Something a little different again for us. We haven't done a music style podcast yet, so we will do that on Thursday and link to that episode. We'll evaluate. We'll be in the show notes for everyone to listen to prior to Thursday if you so choose. Now, before we dig in to the show, if you guys remember, and it's funny, Cliff is here too, because I think we talked a little bit about this on last week during the evaluation episode. I talked about how I want to include more transitions, things to really help separate from segment to segment, etcetera. And I had a little fun over the weekend. Now I'm going to say I used Sora to help me create some jingles and you may be thinking why would you do that? There's also Suno who what an app we've been talking about as far as creating music.

6:07 And yes, I did use that too. I actually wasn't as happy with what happened. So how am I using a video generation AI tool to make a Jingle? I tell it that I want 3 to 4 singers to sing at a microphone a Jingle. I'm actually adding vocals and I'm not saying I'm using any of these, but I thought this would be fun to share and share the experiment with you to help you maybe think about creatively how you can consider using AI. So these are, if you guys remember, especially those of you from say seventies, 80s and 90s, a lot of radio stations would play jingles with three, four part harmonies.

6:50 Jam Productions is the name of, of really popularly used company back in the day to do these, to produce these for you. They got the singers, they helped you create those harmony stingers, jingles, etcetera. BC you know what I'm talking about right? Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, Not really. I'm sorry, no. OK, well then maybe I should just go ahead and play. So here's what I did. I'll just play a couple of these for you. And I am open to feedback because again, I'm not married to any of these. I just thought let's have some fun with these. So here's the first little Jingle. Oh, and I should say we're using news and comment for the Jingle. In other words, that's that's what this would be applied for too, I should say.

7:34 And again, probably not going to necessarily use these, but just needed some kind of segment to make this thing happen. So here you go. Clip one of the news and comment Jingle. It's a little drawn out there for the word chat. Yeah, BC go ahead. OK, now I remember there I used I come from Illinois and I remember Jingle 4K one O 4.7. So I got you. Now I got you. Nice, nice vibrato in that one too. Nice job there BC All right, so that was the first one, Dr. I'm so surprised you haven't chimed in yet. I'll play the second one.

8:24 What do you think, Dr. I like the first one better than this one. Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. Here's the third one. News. And comment on the podcasting morning. Chat. Now that one I kind of like. It's short and sweet. I like that, 'cause it's short, yeah. Yeah, OK. And here's the other one, news and comments on the. Podcasting morning. Chat. Oh, you like that one? They're very long. They are, but this third bumper, that third one wasn't terribly long on the podcasting. Morning. Chat that's like four or five. Seconds. Yeah, I like that very much.

9:05 You know, what I was thinking is that you know how some of us tend to go on a rant every now and then? I think you need one for And that's today's rant or something like. That yes, now, now we're getting creative. That I could not think of clever ideas to apply to this. That's why I did news and comment. That's I'm gonna have to brainstorm with all of you because that's a great idea. I love that. Sid, I saw you had something. Go ahead. Yeah, those are fun to listen to. I'm just wondering, Mark, what would they be like if you took out the podcasting morning chat phrase, like just like news and comment? Because on the radio they don't say news and comment from W blah, blah, blah, blah, one or whatever, right? They just say news and comments. So I wonder what it would be like if he took out the name of the show because we all know where we are listening. True, good point.

9:53 I could play with that as well. The Suno ones were really long. Dr. talk about these being long, but I, it was really, it's really hard to hear you by the way, can I do something in the prompt? Yes, I, I did something in the prompt. I really actually, I was specific about how long to make it. What I noticed was Sora is better at following those directions as far as length goes. Then then Suno it would not follow my directions no matter what I did as far as length goes. As far as using the the right lyrics and the style music that did good job, not so much as far as length goes. So I'll keep playing with that. I kind of wondered, going off of DRS idea, if it'd be more funny to be a bit more sarcastic about the rants and say that was today's Ted talk.

10:43 Yeah, right. Oh, that's good. That's good, yeah. I like that too. OK, So we are getting somewhere as we head into 2026. That's one of my goals is to try to get some different types of segways, transitions, etcetera. And I'll probably have a variation. I have to have some kind of harmony like one of these. It just brings me back to my radio, my love of radio and I. You know the first thing, the first thing I thought of when this started, this conversation started, was do you remember when Billy and Sid got into a thing? Yes, Which time?

11:25 Yes, exactly. So we need to do one for Sid and Billy. Yes, I think that's that's a good idea. I will play, continue to play and feel free to send along any ideas any of you have. Cliff, what did you think? I haven't even gone to you yet. What did you think? Well, my concerned about using audio jingles and things like that is that sometimes it can distract from the content and I definitely feel like it can get old if it's overused. Agreed. I shared this last time, but I'll just share with you. This is what I do to separate segments. I'll just say, OK, so now we're going to talk about this.

12:09 Yeah, I really like that and I will absolutely be adding some of that too. And I know you had those custom made. So either I got to do that or go find some free ones which I know are around and available. But great idea. That sounds very much what like one of my mentors, David Hooper, does as well. Yeah, David and I go way back. Absolutely. Then if you're searching for them, they're just called bumpers or stingers. Yep, absolutely. OK, cool. So there you go. If anybody wants to play around with that, you could do my way or you could just go look for different bumpers or Stingers. Just Google it, YouTube it. You'll find something. And I know Audio Jungle, I think I've found some of those available there as well. Cliff, you want to play a little music transition for me. All right now we are going to get into the meat of today's show with our obsession Worthy Podcast of the week, and that one is Everything is Alive and I will hand it over to Jonathan in a second.

13:15 Everything Alive is one of those podcasts that gets people, that gets into people's heads. I would say after listening to it, especially, I feel that way and Jonathan's going to breakdown, break this all down for us and help connect the dots for how we can apply these ideas to our own shows. So Jonathan, do you want to take take it away and help set things up for us? Why don't we play the You have the start of the episode, right? Just to get people an idea what this is all about. You got it. Let me do that for you. Here we go. Hello, my name is Maeve and I live, I guess you'd say, in Brooklyn, NY. I'm stopping it there because I realized we should really set this up properly.

14:05 This show, Everything is Alive, is actually improved. I don't know how many people knew that, at least the ones that were listening coming into today's episode. It is highly improvised, particularly the guest. The guest acts as an inanimate object. And the idea here is that the host is interviewing this inanimate object to learn more about them. And today's episode that we're breaking down is about the lamp, the lamppost, and her name is Maeve. So here it is again. I don't know if you how you chose me out of all the other lampposts because a lot of people are like they're all the same, but I I'm glad that you did. I think you made the right choice because I wouldn't say you know that I'm better than them, but I would say I'm different in a way that's really good. I'm pretty tall.

15:03 I guess you might have walked into me. Hopefully not. People sometimes tie their dogs on a leash to me. I also am a holder of notices, so people who are looking for nannies, babysitters, lost dogs, and you'll find those stuck on to me. Regardless of whether or not you're scared of the dark, I'm going to be shining. But you know what? Some people really are scared of the light. Think about that. That is the way that the show opens. Well, technically it opens with a commercial after the commercial. That's what plays. And like I said, it is this is an improvised show. The host, Ian, I don't know how to Do you know how to pronounce his last name?

15:51 Jonathan. Schulag, something along those lines. I did a little research. He has a set of questions or scenes that he has in mind going in, but he acknowledges that some of those scenes the the there some scenes are thought up before recording. And he says that sometimes they just don't work. So he just scraps them all together. So it really is he just has his questions prepared, much like you might in a real life interview. And then he sits down and interviews the guest, the lamppost, and she improvises all of her answers. OK. Go ahead, Jonathan. So the host, obviously he's interviewing inanimate objects. The inanimate objects are voiced by the improv actors and the conversations kind of unfold and there's surprising tenderness to some of these conversations, which we'll see in this one even as well as, you know, it's like, it seems absurd, but it becomes philosophical. It's a very interesting journey you take with this, with this podcast particularly.

16:53 I think the biggest thing that I got out of this is they have this one bold creative rule, and that is that they're interviewing inanimate objects. And that single rule has become the entire identity of this podcast. And it's instantly recognizable. It's actually really, really flexible, but it still keeps the podcast controlled in a way. So whether they're interviewing a soda can or a light post or a Sharpie, it still has an interesting and it twist that it can go on. And I think, you know, obviously being improved it helps that, but it really highlights the fact that if you've got a bold creative idea and you're like, not you're holding back because you're worried about criticism, you can actually jump in and try that bold creative idea for your podcast because it can't be any crazier than interviewing a light lamp post. Yeah, that's true.

17:51 So I mean, I think that for me is like the biggest, one of the biggest lessons is why am I holding back on things? If I've got a big idea, let me give it a shot because you can build your brand around 1 unforgettable constraint. That's how the concept turns into cult following like that. I'm wondering if anybody has like a big idea they've been holding back on? I don't know if I personally have a specific big idea for well, I've been sharing some ideas for the podcast moving forward, but I don't know that I have a creative idea like that in mind for this show right now. But I will say it did get my mind, my mind churnin. I started thinking it would be cool to once in awhile do an episode similar to that. But it in relate in relation to podcasting, right? Like interviewing a podcast microphone, we're interviewing a podcast camera, something like that, and giving the credit, of course, to Everything Is Alive.

18:47 But I've I felt inspired to want to do something like that. Before we hear other answers, I'm also curious what everyone's first impressions were when you listened to Everything Is Alive. Yeah, Ralph, I'll go to you first. Go ahead. Honestly, I was like, what is this? I'm glad you told me it was improv now because the whole weekend, since I listened to that, I'm like, have these folks lost their mind? I'm just being honest with you. I was like, what did I just hear? It was definitely outside of my normal things that I would listen to. But now that you've told me that, now it tends to make sense and I'll go look at listen to some others. But made my first impression was like, what in the world am I listening to? OK, that's fair.

19:27 Yeah. And some people who have been joining the podcasting morning chat for an extended period of time may remember that. Dominic Lawson. I should say award-winning podcaster Dominic Lawson because he's won so many. He did an episode like Everything Is Alive for Sid and Sid's podcast. Sid, What was the inanimate object that Dominic portrayed? So it's funny that you said that, Mark, because as Jonathan was talking, I'd remembered that episode that Dominic did. He did it as a way to show me how a narrative podcast could work when we talk about office furniture. And he used a desk chair, and he told the story of the desk chair from the beginning of the business.

20:10 To the transition of the business and it just was great to have all these little squeaky sounds in it and it just the the the audio to it, the sound production. This word has to be forward to it was really cool. I'll go find it and put a link into the startup, see if you wanted to go listen to it's like a 12 minute episode. It's just really good and just showed you what's possible. But it was a desk chair. That's right and I found it so I've just shared it in the chat. You're welcome. It is episode 143. The Silent Pop partner is the name of the episode, so go check that out for sure. You can hear somebody else getting creative about it and let's see BC did you want to share first impressions?

20:52 So I'll preface by saying I did what? Listen to the cola can episode but by mistake. But I got to say that was a phenomenally framed show. I mean, it was. It was funny because getting a new perspective on human existentialism from an aluminum based life form was not on my 2025 bingo card. But my initial impressions were like, I thought of like Bowen Yang from SNL. If anyone else doesn't watch SNL, he got some momentum in his career when he portrayed the iceberg that sink the Titanic, and he was being interviewed as the iceberg itself. But just the framing of the show, much to what Jonathan said, is very It provided such a cool depth to it. And the last time I heard a podcast that was kind of packaged that way, they're typically discussing either philosophy, like you said, or like the breakdown of the institution of religion.

21:46 It's a usually a really deep topic, but this kind of existential from an inanimate object was really quite genius. Agreed, yes BCI have not heard the soda can episode yet and I've heard about that episode. I think it's a really popular 1 so that doesn't surprise me. I'll have to go back to listen. I will say the last 1010 minutes of that episode had me clutching my pearls a little bit. Prepare for it when you go to Washington. Wow. All right, cool. We'll see. There you go. That's exactly what we're talking about here. These that that's why or what makes this podcast so powerful, and we'll keep digging in further to really unveil all of that. But Ashley had something and Dr. had something.

22:26 Go ahead, Ashley. I thought it was hysterical. I loved it. I think how they brought the music in suddenly about 1/4 way through when they brought it back was a great touch. And anytime a creator does something that's somewhat silly in a serious tone, I think it makes it even more funnier. So that's my first impression. All right, cool. Thank you, Ashley. Dr. Go ahead. Ashley stole one of my things that's, you know, 'cause you and I talked from backstage about it. But I, you know, when I hear something like this, my mind just reels. Number one, it was very NPRish. And I mean that in the best sense of the word. The other thing is the choices that they made are always interesting to me.

23:10 For instance, they could have chosen any actress, but they chose an actress with an Irish robe. And she opens up by saying, I live in New York City. So there's, you know, there's that thing going on that why, gosh, why did they choose that? They got Bill Curtis, who is one of the foremost journalistic narrating voices that the world has ever known. Yeah, and by the way, one that more people will know when I say it, he's the narrator in Anchorman the movie. Yeah, and he just came in to read maybe 3 or 4 lines and that was it.

23:52 But the music, the music really got my mind spinning. Well, number one, just where they chose to come in, like during the their long their episode, those certain places where they chose to come in, it seemed so perfect, but there were a lot of perfect places for music to come in that they didn't come in. So I'm I would love to open up the mind of the person who actually made this choice and why this choice was made. And the music seemed really perfect, just perfect. Just the a couple of chords over and over again. I can.

24:38 Play that example for you that that you had given me before the show. I I don't mind playing it jumping ahead real. Quick. Yeah. And also, by the way, I agree with you, The accent, not a complaint by any stretch. And it threw me off a little bit because I was, when she said she was from New York, I was, I was wanting that New York accent. But maybe that was the choice. Maybe that's why, just to throw us off a little bit. Right, right. All right, here's now here's the example of, in DRS opinion, a good use of music. On the humans heads. It does seem like the sort of the wrong. It seems like the wrong solution. To the. Problem. I think a much better solution would be to put foam over a person's head because so many people like don't seem to see me, you know, and it's almost like, guys, I'm right here.

25:34 It's been a long time thinking I'd be discovered. Yeah, that's really just well placed. You really feel it? Yeah. Yep. I just loved it. And by the way, you had said before at the opening of our show is that they had some scenes that they, you know, threw out and stuff like this. Well, yes, they did. And a matter of fact, you can hear them on the December 10th, 2018 episode. It's a bonus episode of the Outtakes. Oh cool. Oh, I. And it's the outtakes of the of the whole season. It's outtakes of the whole season. Oh, cool. All right, Dr. get us that link, would you?

26:15 We'll put that in the show notes, too. OK, let's get back. Oh, wait. First let's go to Sid, and then we'll get back to Jonathan. Go ahead, Sid. I was familiar with this show. Thank you for reminding me, Jonathan, that I was because I was with him on Chatter when he talked about the soda can episode, and I love the soda can episode. But I just wanted to comment. I think what I like about this show is it's an escape. It's an escape from news, from politics, from education, from professional development. If you just want to listen to a story and just be entertained by a lamppost or a soda can. I just think it's a great thing to be able to do right just to sit back and listen to a story that's created by actors and improv. So I really like that aspect of it.

26:57 I also think it's going to challenge your first second. I think it are you and you too about like using our imagination. So yes, the lamppost said she was from New York and she came up with an Irish accent, but she could have been made in Ireland and then assembled in New York and New York is her home, right? So I think it just gives you that ability to be super creative with it. And I just think it's a really unique way to do a podcast that's just kind of fun and interesting and a step back from the norm. Agreed. Thank you, Sid. And yeah, good point To allow our imaginations to wander a little bit and not just stick to the very first thing. In fact, that's what they teach us in improv. When we're given a scene and we're told to think, you know, we're we're given whatever that scene is, we're told whatever the first thing that comes to mind is scrap it and go to the next thing.

27:50 It's an exercise to help us dig deeper, get more creative. I love that you said that. Thank you, Sid. And let's bring it back to Jonathan. Jonathan, where do you want to go here? So you did just play the first clip, but I'm going to do a little setup for that, which is at first we're thinking this entire like this is an absurd thing. We're we're listening to a light post talk about being a light post and what their life is like. But that absurdity actually becomes like the gateway into something really, really interesting. So in the this episode, it's, you know, they're joking about lampposts needing to be padded or padding the human heads, which is absurd. But the segment ends, and I'm not sure if you got to the end of that one fully, but it ends with her saying, because so many people don't seem to see me, you know, it's been a long time thinking I'll be discovered and not being noticed. That line there, I mean, it's a universal human desire. We all want to be seen.

28:50 And the lamppost is making it, you know, filling in and making a lot of listeners feel seen because that's how sometimes we feel. We're trying to get noticed and nobody's noticing us. So bringing that universal, you know, that moment in it goes from this is absurd. We're talking about people needing to have padding on their heads so they don't walk into a light post, but it's about her being seen. I love that. Thank you, Jonathan. Yeah, I wasn't even thinking that through. And yeah, now that you say that, what a what a real human moment for for an inanimate object. My question is, is there a part of your podcast you can tie back to a universal human experience to get to make it relatable to people and allow them to see see your podcast in a unique way?

29:40 I'll start while everyone else is thinking about that for a moment. And I think for some people that'll be a hard question to answer because I believe there are a lot of podcasters out there that are really just sticking to the facts, right? Just getting you the value that you need. And they're not really bringing in that human side of them necessarily. And I'm, this isn't a blanket statement, right? It's just from a lot of podcasts that I've heard. But for me, this may not shock a lot of you, but I think me sharing all year long the journey I've had with ADHD and getting off the medication and sharing the struggles along the way, I think that's that's an example of showing that human side. Does anyone else do that here?

30:21 Do you actually show that human side? Yeah, BC go ahead. And if you have an example, please share. For my show and overall, I've got a bunch of incredible guests and they share their backstories. We we've discussed moments in their lives from growing up with certain challenges like dyslexia to losing people, to all these things that help kind of trigger their pivotal journey into their entrepreneurialism. And myself personally, I've always tried to be very honest with my shortcomings. I've been honest about times when I've been fired, about times when I've been very stupid and where I've had overdue learning moments. So I've always tried to make that element a, a kind of cornerstone part of the foundation so that at the very least if I misstep on providing the proper insights to entrepreneurs or giving an actionable suggestion, at the very least there's some kind of human to human connection basis.

31:21 At the very least that that's always been my attempt. At the very least. NBCI got a little distracted so admittedly I may have missed something, so please forgive me. And do you stop and focus on you and your human side at all or do you mainly kind of put that on the guest? That's a good question. I think typically I kind of put that onus on the guest a bit more. I do try to find times as I listen to them to see, oh, have I had that moment before myself. So I can, you know, also give a bit more of myself. But I do think it might be a bit more on the onus of my guest who tends to have to bring a bit more of that. Awesome.

32:02 Thank you for sharing that. And yeah, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. I think the more important approach is that we do create those human connections. So it's not a knock or anything. And I do think that it's helpful for any host to really bring their own personal challenges, struggles, experiences, bring that into the mix as well. Because again, like we, we say people, what, what, what's the phrase? People comfort the guests, they stay for the host. And if that's the case, we've got to give them reasons to keep coming back for us too. Dr. Did you have something? I did, but I have a question for you. Sure.

32:43 So seeing how open you have been with us all year about your ADHD, valleys and mountains and hills that you've been sharing, maybe your stress level when it came to the conference, the problems that you've had with sleep, things like that, which animate inanimate object do you think you would be? That's a great question. The first thing that came to mind was an alarm clock. But the problem is, is that I don't really use an alarm clock. I use my phone. So it might be my phone, it might be my phone, because my phone connects me with all of those different challenges in some way, right? It might connect me with my coach or a therapist. You know, I did, I think I even shared I did EMDR therapy earlier this year and I managed and managed that with the doctor through my phone, through text conversations, phone conversations, etcetera.

33:40 So I might choose my phone. Plus your phone holds all the memories with all the pictures that it has. Sure, sure. Maybe it's almost too easy to choose my phone. It might be. That's a great question. And if anyone else has a wants to play along with that question too, by all means, let's hear it. What? What inanimate object would you be? All right, let's keep it moving. Jonathan, take it away. Yes, no problem. So the lesson I think in this particular clip, in this thing that I as a take away is to always bring it back to your audience. What do you want them to hear? Or more importantly, what do you want them to feel? Because relatability is a huge connector. And if you can get your audience to say, Oh my God, that's so me, you're building a fan for life.

34:22 I agree wholeheartedly. If you can find a way to bring it back and make it relatable, make somebody feel something, which this particular clip did, it may. It brought us back to wanting to be seen. You know, if you can create something like that in your podcast, that's going to be a very strong piece of content that is going to get people to connect with your show. These shows are kind of like the hero's journey formula, right? The character, the hero is the guest. And when the guest is sharing moments like that, like that example you you just provided. Yeah, I mean, that's tying us to that hero. It's connecting us to the hero of the story. We're relating to the hero of the story. Yeah.

35:04 Great point, Jonathan. All right, so I'm going to set up the second clip, which is honestly, norms got thrown out the window with this inner interview because it's an interview, but it's not necessarily totally an interview. There's a lot of collaborative creation that's happening. And this particular clip is a break in the episode where the host asked the lamppost if they wanted to create a movie right there as part of the interview. So we land on this kind of thoughtful and tender moment that we're going to play next and. Then like maybe one of them says to the other, honey, I'm sorry, I don't have any money to take you to the movies.

35:47 May have seized the couple so in love without a dime in their pockets. OK, and then and then what does? What happens with my character? Well, I think you know that it's a movie, so you can kind of do whatever you want. Her light flickers a bit. With an idea. She bends at her waist. Something she can do now because, well. This is a movie. She leans all the way down till she's doubled over. She offers her lamp for them to sit on. Come on, you 2, let me show you something. The couple looks at each other and sits down on Maeve's lamp.

36:30 She raises herself up to her full height. They look across the street and see Singing in the Rain just starting on the TVI. Hope you like it. The couple holds hands and watches the movie. And that was Bill Curtis, actually, right? Dr. That was the the voice you were referring to. So good all. Right, Jonathan? First of all, I was going to mention here the way that they created they did. The sound is brilliant. It just brings you in each time they they add something else, you're like, oh, and so you're really enthralled, honestly, with what's happening here. And I think they did a phenomenal job with that. And we go from like the standard interview moment to this fiction that's being created with the host and the guest kind of joining forces with the third narrator in that creation, the moment.

37:18 And that breaks the rules of a standard interview. Like that's not something that would happen if you're just talking to somebody you, you know. So it keeps the listener engaged and allows for the format to be repeatable because you can break off in these different things for each different object, whether you're a soda can or a Sharpie, whatever you might be. So really does give the podcast a lot of depth. And the lesson here is that every niche has rules. Learn them and know when it's time to break them so you can create your own magic. So explore all the different angles that are available to you to tell a unique story that will connect with your audience. Thank you, Jonathan. I think that's a great point. And Dr. Do you want to share the little nugget you just shared with me? It was actually Tim in the chat.

38:04 I thought how in the world did they get Tim Curtis not to Bill, Bill Curtis to to do this just coming for a couple of lines, but Tim actually made the connection. The producer of this also produces for Wait Wait Don't Tell Me. And Bill Curtis is the announcer for that show. So it is a connection there. All in the family, Yeah. Yes, All right, cool. Good little trivia back then. Thank you, Tim for bringing that up. Tim also in the chat says here the key to good design is not to have is not sorry, is to not have the audience notice. In my opinion, as a designer, yeah, you want it to just kind of be feel so natural and not overdone, not overused. Yeah.

38:51 The only reason why we're even noticing it is because we're in the business. Yes, yes, agreed. All right, Jonathan, go ahead. I want to go into the last clip that I have. The third clip is really about all the little details that make a big impact. And then, you know, this clip, she's particularly talking about what it's like to live in her neighborhood when she says I watched lives happen, but I don't get one. And she talks about what it's like to stand in one place and watch the neighborhood over time. So she describes people growing up, couples coming and going, the city changing around her and all of this. The small details that go into this that make this podcast so powerful because you realize that she's not just a lamppost.

39:39 You want to hit that third clip. I see a lot of dates happening, which is when 2 humans are figuring out whether you know they will or not. They will or not. Right. I actually am not, it's not clear to me what they're working on, but there's some question between them which is like, you know, will we or won't we? Seems to be a big issue around lamppost and often they lean against me to figure it out. Like they're pressing against each other and they're pushing their mouths on each other and they're like, will we won't we do want to? I don't know. And so that's kind of like interesting to make them like make up your minds.

40:20 Get off me. You know, if the answer to that question will they or won't they? Yeah, Is that they will. Right. You have kind of played a formative role in their lives. You know the the question is will will they be together? Yeah, I do have some role in that and I do like the thought, I guess, of, you know, being an important part of someone's destiny, a person's destiny. Love that clip so much Jonathan. That's a great one. You know, she's reflecting on, you know, how she's part of everybody's life, but not really in anyone's life. And that's, you know, a really powerful statement and something, again, that goes back to that human connection. And it's really like this quiet, reflective tone where you're you forget that she's a lamppost and you're just listening to somebody who's painfully aware of like, how things change and time passing.

41:15 And it the huge emotional range on this one little clip, you know, because you start, and this is a little bit after the start of the episode, you start and you're like, you're a little bit like, OK, this is weird. This lamppost has opinions. She's, you know, doing all these things and like, OK, but now you're actually suddenly thinking about things like the passage of time and how you're a background character in other people's lives when you want to be the main character. You know, all of these things that come through that are truly human, real human emotions. What can people here and not? This is not just for Jonathan, this is for everybody. What can we really take away from a show like this?

41:56 Because I know this, the idea here isn't to convince everybody to stop what they're doing and start doing more shows like this. What's a lesson maybe that you can take away from hearing an episode of Everything Is Alive that you could apply moving forward? Yeah, Ralph, go ahead. So the one take away I have is maybe do a better job at Theater of the mind, because that definitely was what I heard there. Like I said, this was way outside of the normal things I listened to, so it was really a challenge for me to connect with it. But now that I've listened to everybody's comments today and I've really dug in deep to this, I'm like, this is actually kind of cool. So I think that we all can learn from ways to enhance our connection with our listeners by playing more theater than mind games. Agreed.

42:42 Yeah. Something to be said, too, about the host. And he does prepare ahead of time. And he, but, you know, think about the questions that he's asking is really helping guide the direction of the show. And he's also, as I shared at the beginning, sometimes he's just improvising as well. You know, he has his prepared themes, his prepared questions, but sometimes it goes in a different direction because the guest is improvising and he has to go with it. And I thought he does a fantastic job of asking really good questions that brings out these really introspective answers. And that actually brings apart another part to what you're saying, Mark, And that is if you're doing an interview show, I think we have to sometimes drop the script and drop the pre plan questions and let the the guests take it where it's going to go because there's some beauty in that sometimes. I mean, I think you have to rein them in sometimes. But I think sometimes as an interview host, we get set on, well, I want to ask this, I don't want to ask this, I'm going to ask this.

43:40 But sometimes we need to take a step back and just let the thing evolve. I agree. Thank you, Ralph. Yeah, Jonathan. Yeah. And I think one thing that we can take away from this podcast is it's not we don't need bigger guests. We don't need, you know, more razzle dazzle. What we need is a sharp premise and to remember to tie back to humanity. The people that are listening, what do they want to hear? What do you want them to feel? If you tie it back to the people, then you're going to be able to connect so. Yeah, a strong format doesn't have to look traditional, and what matters, in my opinion, is the clarity and commitment behind it. Structure and improv can live together if you give yourself a solid container for it.

44:27 That's exactly what this podcast does is it creates a strong container for them to play around with these these objects, you know, they can play and each object can be something different and, and comment on something human in a different way. And I think that's what this this podcast does. It creates a really strong container. Agreed. What it's showing is, is that your point of view, in my opinion, is the real character of your show. I want people to lean into that and editing is not clean up, right. Editing is part of the storytelling. It's where the episode becomes the episode. So you know you that's where you're going to put in the the music, like Dr. had pointed out, to really help create emotion. I think that that can be done in a more traditional style podcast interview.

45:16 Specifically, you can add music to help create emotion. Most of all, I think that this show reminds me that creative risks can play, can pay off when they're rooted in intention. And this show is all about intention. So that's what I got out of it. And if anybody else has any thoughts, by all means, now's the time. If not, Jonathan, I'm going to hand it back to you. I definitely think that what you said is like if taking that risk and showing up as yourself in your podcast in a unique way is a powerful way to show up. And I think that we all have the ability to do it a little bit more than what we might be doing it in the past because I don't think we've all, I don't know.

45:58 I know that I've tried push myself a little bit, but I haven't gone all the way with my podcasts. And I know that there's other things that I could create that they might be a risk, they might be different, but could they work potentially? I mean interviewing a coke can works so I can. I'm sure what I have is not that crazy. Yeah, thank you, Jonathan, and thanks for another great obsession worthy podcast episode. I'm really enjoying these and we'll do we'll do these more often down the road as well. I'll let everybody know if we do it again on Monday. Jonathan has an arsenal of different podcasts that we can pick apart. And again, this is a little different than our evaluation episodes, right?

46:44 We're taking the these kinds of episodes like we just did. These are for us to learn how we can maybe do things a little differently, right. And then the evaluation episodes is really to help other podcasters learn what they're doing really well and what areas they could they're what areas there's room for improvement. And I think that both styles we all can learn a lot from. So that's why we're doing more of these types of things. And tomorrow we're going to talk about private podcasting. I know BC is doing it now. Cliff is coming back. Cliff had to leave early.

47:24 He sent me a message behind the scenes saying he had to jet. But he is back tomorrow along with BC to talk a lot about their experience with private podcasting to see if is that something maybe that some of us want to start doing and why. So join us tomorrow, 7:00 AM Eastern live on Clubhouse, YouTube, Facebook, chatter, all the places. And if for some reason you can't get up that early or have something else going on, just find us at podcasting Morning chat.com and you can pick a variety of ways to catch up on your favorite episodes. So until tomorrow, make it a great day everybody take care.