530. Is Podcasting Having an Identity Crisis?

0:05 Marc Ronick: Good morning, Today is Wednesday, june 3, 2026 and today it's our podcast news and comment edition. As podcasting's identity crisis continues, we'll explore video sustainability, AI's impact on listener value and who's trying to redefine podcasting behind the scenes. So, if you're listening live on Clubhouse, hit the share button, top right-hand side of the screen, and share it however Clubhouse lets you. And if you're catching us via podcast, YouTube, etc. please share this with a fellow podcaster. Now, give us about 30 seconds, and we'll get things rolling. Thanks for being here. The podcasting morning chat is powered by Ironick Media, helping podcasters launch, polish, and grow great shows, and by Content Creators Accountant, helping creators build real business behind their content. Good morning again, podcasting morning show. Thank you so much for being here. I am your host, Mark Ronick, and currently on stage with me, my co-hosts, we have Ralph Estep, Dr. Fay, Sid Meadows, BC Babbles, and also I believe,

1:36 wow, we've got on stage from the audience Dan Schultz, Tide Tutoring, and also DJ Rez has joined us. It's been a minute since we've had you here, Rez. Good to see you as well, and thank you all for being here today. Before we dive into all the headlines around the world of podcasting, I want to remind you that if you'd like your podcast featured on the Podcasting Morning Show. Submit a 62nd clip about your show at Podcasting Morning show.com/spotlight If we select your 62nd clip, we'll play it on a future episode, share what stood out, and obviously introduce your show to our entire community of podcasters and creators.

2:20 So, again, all you got to do is go to Podcasting Morning show.com/spotlight You can fill out the quick form, include an audio or video clip. seconds, and we would love for show with us, as opposed to just of your episodes, because we and your show with our Thank you in advance. All right, Ralph, hit the news music, please. All right, so we're gonna dive into the news, and yes, normally I don't ask Ralph to hit every button for every sound effect, but I am remote today from Atlantic City, New Jersey, and we have, through trial and error, discovered that it's easiest, for whatever reason, my sounds aren't coming through when I'm playing them to our Clubhouse community, so Ralph is leading the charge here, so here's how I like to start our news and comment with some podcast data for you. This is the active podcasts in the entire world of podcasting, and when I say active, this is a helpful number to understand the amount of podcasts being created, and that number is based on the total number of these active podcasts.

3:44 These are podcasts that are still being updated and therefore actively marketing themselves. If you're making podcast episodes, you might consider this number to be your competition rather than the big overall 4.6 million podcasts there, but don't necessarily do anything to keep those podcasts going. So, the new episodes in the last week that are considered active, the new pod, or the podcasts that are considered active over the past week, 581,467 which is up 3.4% from the previous week, and if you're curious about the last 30 days, 2.3 million and change are previous month. Okay, with that, we're gonna go roll into Dr. two top five lists.

4:42 Dr. I think we're starting with business podcasts. DR: Yeah, hey, good morning So, let's see, we're going to start with Apple's business podcast, the top five. Okay, so number five is Money Rehab with Nicole Appen. One number four is the Ramsey show, of course, that's Dave Ramsey. Number three is Real AF with Number two is Unblinded with Shot. Oh, what, that was.. I did a terrible job on that one. Start that tippity again. Marc Ronick: There it is. DR: Number two is Unblinded with with Sean Kelly, Marc Ronick: real AF Andy Frizzella.

5:35 The only reason why I'm pointing that out is because although I don't really follow him regularly. I will say that he was a big influence in my life because he is the creator of the 75 hard program, and I did that back in late 2021 75 days in a row of the five critical tasks, drinking a gallon of water a day, reading at least 10 pages of a book, nonfiction, two workouts a day, 45 minutes each minimum, and one must be outside, rain or shine.

6:15 You have to take a picture of a progress picture, and there's one more that's just escaped me, and I'm embarrassed that it escaped me, but nonetheless, an amazing program, he's built an 75 hard program, and it is, it experience, for sure, it really shows you that you can do hard things, and despite all the if you commit to something and yourself, you'd be amazed at So, if you're interested in that, let me know more. Let me know, and I'll share more with you about..

6:56 I DR: am.. I am not interested in changing my life, that is for sure. Okay, so the next chart is fitness, and I want you to four, okay? Because they are sleep all about sleep, okay? So number five is sleep escape, sleep meditation, and hypnosis. Number four is eight hour sleep music. Number three, okay, on purpose with Jay Shetty. Number two is the Dr. John Deloney show, and the number one show is Huberman's Lab.

7:38 Oh, Huberman Lab. Sorry, there's no S on that, Marc Ronick: yes, yes, all shows there, for sure. And Huberman Lab, definitely one that I check in on on occasion. Great show, DR: interesting. The top five, two of them are about sleep, Marc Ronick: yeah, that is interesting. Yeah, I mean, look, we're in a stressed out society, so I'm not surprised that people are looking for sleeping solutions. Dr, you and I deal with with sleeping challenges for sure. DR: Yeah, Marc Ronick: yeah, awesome. All right, Ralph, give me some news music. See, you know that Ralph knows the show really well because he had his finger on the button ready to go. Before I didn't even need to cue him.

8:25 around the world of podcasting. First, a company called Coleman Insights is putting podcast trailers under the microscope with new research-driven webinar. Let me say that again. Webinar called Podcast Hard DR: in the Morning. Marc Ronick: Yeah, I didn't say it on, yeah. Ralph Estep Jr.: Unfortunately, I don't have that queued up today, because I changed my Oh, good. I'm Marc Ronick: glad the webinar is called Podcast Trailers, a playbook for producing successful teasers. It's happening today, june 3, at 1pm Eastern. I'll share the link with you in just a moment, and it will be in the show notes. I'm not sure if it'll make it, Nonetheless, let me tell you The session signed DR: up for it.

9:11 Marc Ronick: You did. Oh, cool. Okay, I DR: did. Marc Ronick: The session created Podcast Collective, is based on a study of 500 US podcast listeners, and looks at what people actually remember from trailers, which create choices, grab attention, and what makes someone more likely to hit play. They'll break down four real podcast trailers to show what works, what flops, and why translation for podcasters, your trailer may be doing a lot more heavy lifting than you think, and if it sounds like an afterthought, your audience may treat your whole show the same way. I will share this here right now, in case you're this is. This could be helpful.

10:00 Look, I don't know what they've put together, so you know your guess is as good as mine, but the concept makes a lot of sense, especially these days, because I think that a lot of us and I'm not saying everyone, so don't get offended, I might not be talking about you specifically, but look, I do this too, right? Like, I just put out clips from the show, and sometimes those may serve well and may hit the right people and hit the right spot, but at the same time, there's so many of them out there that I think that it becomes a little bit noise of scrolling, I think putting eye-catching, ear-catching, CEO is my guess. Of one of the ones they're going to point out is one of the good ones.

10:51 I think if we can make these more, these sizzle more, I think that it could go a long way. It's important to try to stand out. before I forget to share it with again, like I said, this will be It's a Zoom call, and I think it's free. Dr. D, is it free? It DR: is free. Marc Ronick: Okay, so there you go. So, go check that out today. Also, this one, not as much pressure, you have some time here. Two weeks, as a matter of online session called YouTube Podcasters. It's on Wednesday, June 17, from five to 6pm BST, so that's 12 to 1pm Eastern time.

11:40 The session is aimed directly at podcasters who want to turn their YouTube audience into a more engaged paying community through channel membership. YouTube says it'll cover how to set up the launch setup and launch memberships, how to create stronger perks and pricing tiers, how to turn casual viewers into members, and it'll include a live Q and A with the expert panel for podcasters leaning into video. This is worth paying attention to, because YouTube keeps pushing deeper into podcasting, clearly, and memberships could become one of the more practical ways creators build recurring revenue without sending their audience somewhere else.

12:23 You can find this information on the YouTube event website podcasts dot with youtube.com And finally, Who's surprised? I'm curious if anybody else knows where I'm going with this last event to share with you. The Empowered Podcasting Conference returns August. I'm going to start saying August 20 through the 23rd because technically we're kicking things off that Thursday evening in Charlotte, North Carolina, and we're also saying it this way now, the 20th, because we start bright and early on the 21st So I want to make sure that you all are there for every moment. This event is bringing together podcasters, video creators, content creators, entrepreneurs, community-first event built collaboration, and practical The event is expected to feature at least 150 plus attendees, 25 plus speakers. We've got several panels, interactive workshops, and hands on learning with the content creators accountant serving as the title sponsor.

13:34 That's Ralph Estep. Creators can learn more at Empowered podcasting.com and get tickets button, so go there, your tickets before July, up once again in July, so get Empowered podcasting.com Ralph, will you hit the your jingle? It's yours, Content Creators Quick tip, smart move. Yeah, Content Creators Business Bite. Today's Content Creators Business Bite is brought to you by the title sponsor of Empowered Podcasting, Ralph Estep of Content Creators accountant.com Ralph is a licensed accountant with over 30 bookkeeping, and the money side of their business with more clarity and a whole lot less stress.

14:33 Ralph is also my accountant, and I'm happy to recommend him to you. You can learn more at Content Creators accountant.com And with that, Ralph, what are we diving into today? Ralph Estep Jr.: We're going to talk about cameras today. There was an article called Stop you need a full frame 7k cinema ready setup just to film a pop. Vlog, or a talking head video, raises a better question, and camera do creators actually And the answer is this: it's probably less than you think.

15:15 That matters, because this is not just a tech question, it's actually a business question. A creator looking at Cannon's current lineup could spend around 650 to $900 on a creator-focused camera like the EOS R 50 V or the Power Shot v1 or even jump listen to this to a higher end body like the EOS r6 V that one spends 2499 or here the EOS r6 mark 327 99 that's a gap, that's a gap of $1,600 of more than $2,100 Now, that doesn't even include the lenses or batteries, storage lights, microphones, tripods, or editing tools. And here's the uncomfortable truth, for a lot of creators, the camera isn't the bottleneck.

15:57 The bottleneck is usually bad audio, poor lighting, weak scripting, inconsistent posting, messy thumbnails, or content that doesn't clearly serve an So, the smarter creator budget is not what is the best camera I can afford, it's what is the least camera that solves my production problem. If you film mostly vertical clips or product demos, live streams, course content, or talking head videos, you might not need the expensive body, you repeatable workflow. That's where the savings really become real. Instead of overspending by 1500 or maybe $2,000 on an unused camera features, a creator could redirect that money into things that actually move the creator business better sound, better lighting, a teleprompter, editing help, paid designer, or even a few months support. Here's the business lesson: gear should increase output, not delay it.

16:56 A $2,799 camera that sits in a bag because your workflow is complicated is a worse investment than a $700 camera that keeps you published three times a week. So, before you upgrade, creators should ask three questions. Here's question number one: What content do I actually make every week? Question number two is, what is currently making that content harder to produce? And finally, question number three: Will this camera fix that problem, or am I just buying confidence? Because in content creation, the best camera is not always the most powerful one, it's the one that keeps you publishing. So, here's my, my go away moment. Don't buy the camera your ego wants, buy the camera your content business needs. Marc Ronick: Thank you.

17:37 And Ralph Estep Jr.: that's today's business bite. Marc Ronick: Thank you, Ralph. go right now. I didn't travel with my Elgato teleprompter that has the Elgato Face Cam Pro camera built into it, too much to travel with. And, man, if you could see my car loaded up, you, I would be completely embarrassed for any of you to see how much stuff we have been traveling with, but my point is I didn't feel like bringing a big camera and a big setup. Right, I am using the back of my clear, high quality. In fact, some people tell me they like how this camera looks better when I'm doing this show versus the Elgato camera, right?

18:24 So, sometimes we don't even need to invest any money into a camera. We may have a camera that works just as well on the back of our phone. I will say that you gotta the Pro, if you're using an iPhone, the Pro models are going to give you the much better camera, so that's something to that's a reason why I invest a is because I do use this camera a lot for creating content, so I felt justified in spending a it's serving as more than just a I think that's a very good point, my friend. Marc Ronick: Yeah, thank you, All right, hit the music for news.

19:07 Thank you, appreciate that. All right, let's keep things moving with Dr. We've got a few news bites. These are stories that we may into, but still very important about, so take it away. Dr. DR: Yeah, okay, so YouTube is giving podcast listeners that are on their premium tier a more podcast app style experience, which is another sign that YouTube wants podcast consumption to feel less like watch this video, and more like take this video, take this show with you. The new features include on the go mode, which adds easier listening controls, like skip forward and back, while videos play in the background, audio speed, which intelligently adjusts play.

19:59 Back speed during slower speech or denser sections. God, this is like really interesting. Okay, so premium users can now ask for podcast recommendations based on genre, mood, or shows that they already love. YouTube also dropped a spicy data point in April 2026 just a couple months ago, YouTube premium users include trials watched over 800 million hours of podcasts, big number, absolutely fully usable YouTube hasn't shared a recent the last public figure was 125 subscribers, including trials know, I received an email, I was spam or something, that you've won a premium trial, and I didn't do anything with it, because I thought it was spam. I thought it was like a scam thing, but I'm telling you, I am more podcasts that I'm actually partaking in on YouTube, and those freaking commercials, I'm getting so angry.

21:26 I'll say Marc Ronick: it every time we talk about it. It's a worthwhile investment if you can afford it. DR: I think I'm really, really I think I'm, I think I'm gonna take the plunge. Ralph Estep Jr.: You spend your money or you spend your time, Dr. Just remember that. Marc Ronick: That's true. Good point, and it wastes a lot of time. Again, I know I've shared this before, but traveling this week, you know, my wife kind of runs the content while we are driving, right? She's the one driving with the phone and putting on the different podcasts, and we were watching, or she was, I was listening to a lot of podcasts on YouTube, and, man, those commercials just drive me nuts. It's just worse to me than TV commercials, because at least you kind of get a little bit of a cue as to when those commercials are coming, whereas on YouTube it's just It just interrupts right in the middle.

22:19 It's annoying, af. Yeah, yeah. Agreed. Cool. All right, keep things moving. And by the way, I just have to call out real quick. as he normally is, and sometimes And I was supposed to try to meet with him yesterday. We were going to go do lunch, talk a little bit about Empowered Podcasting, because he's our audio video guy, and I had to postpone it. I just was trying to get out of the house and had a lot of work to do before I left, so I had to for that, and more to come. I'll be back on the other side of volunteering next week, so maybe we can do it the following week after that.

22:59 Supporting Cast says it's now platform to deliver gated specifically on Spotify, and distribution API, that means Spotify account to a supporting Cast powered subscription again. Supporting Cast is the name of the company. They can now watch exclusive video episodes directly inside Spotify, right along the audio and video shows they already consume. The first launch partners include Libero and Legacy with Goal Hanger, Jim Harold's Campfire and Betches Media, that is B E T C H E S, expected to follow later in quarter two for podcasters and publishers. The big deal is workflow and monetization. One subscription can now unlock both premium audio and video inside Spotify without sending paying fans to a separate website, paid YouTube channel, or private app.

24:09 next one. DR: So, I have a story here for podcasting is not dying, but lazy podcasting may be on notice. So, in a conference talk titled 'Is Podcasting Cooked' with Justin Jackson of Transistor and Jeremy Inns of Podcasting Marketing Academy tackled two of the biggest anxieties in podcasting right now, and that would be video and AI. Their take: video is not replacing audio, it is changing listeners' behavior. Many podcast fans now move between audio and video, depending on where they are and what they're doing. YouTube may be a major podcast platform, but that does not mean audio-only shows are dead. It means creators need to understand where their audience wants to consume the show.

24:59 The bigger warning came around AI Jackson and Ends argued that AI may not hurt podcasting by flooding the market with fake shows. Instead, it may make generic information podcasts easier to skip. If a listener can get the useful part of an episode from an AI summary in 30 seconds, the full episode needs to offer more. Their advice to creators is simple: stop making shows that sound like searchable blog posts with microphones. The strongest podcasts will be built around personality, perspective, connection, experience, and ideas that cannot be reduced to a quick summary, so no podcasting is not cooked, but forgettable podcasting that may be already in the pan. Marc Ronick: Yeah, interesting story. All right, and I think the next two stories, which we think here, that these are going to be the ones that really create a lot of conversation.

26:01 I think this fit these both fit fairly well with this last story that you shared. Dr. So this first one, the headline reads, Video Podcasting's gold rush may be heading for a reset, and this comes from longtime podcaster creator Elsie Escobar, and Elsie, an influential voice in this space, and this was actually brought to me when I was on Dave Jackson's show this past Saturday, or at least I think it was brought up, I think actually maybe Ralph brought it to the chat on Saturday when he was watching along that particular episode, so Elsie argues that the current video podcasting boom may be following the same hype cycle pattern podcasting has seen before, big attention, big money, big expectations, and then a correction.

26:55 Her larger points that podcasting's long-term strength may still come from community, and sustainable chasing whatever their, whatever hardest. So, I'm going to share some of the key points that she made in this blog, and then let's talk about it, because I know people have thoughts and opinions here. Elsie traces podcasting's major growth waves from the serial era in 2014 to the pandemic creator boom to the current push toward video podcasting.

27:35 She says podcasting has repeatedly gone through moments where outside attention and investment creates big expectations, but the actual difficult and time consuming. is being treated by some podcast growth, largely because video may attract bigger advertising and platform Escobar questions whether large scale video investments will pay off for most creators, especially when many indie podcasters don't have the time, the team, or the budget, or even desire to produce video at a high level. A key theme is sustainability. The article encourages creators to build around the audience they already have, rather than assuming constant year over year audience growth.

28:26 Look, I think that one I can get on board with, especially just because that's been our way here at the Podcasting Morning Show. We do, whether it's good or bad, that's maybe a discussion we can have, but we focus more on growing the community among the people that are here. We don't necessarily do a big push to bring in new podcasters, other than word of mouth, mouth, etc. Let's see here. See, our article encourages creators to build around the audience they already have, rather than assuming, yeah, constant year over year growth. Escobar predicts that within five years, some of the businesses and workflows built podcasting boom may shrink or instead of growth engines. The article also argues that audio versus video debate may choosing the formats they can the content they care about. I'm very curious to hear what you all think about that too. For indie creators, the practical takeaway is to understand where revenue comes from, what product or service the podcast supports, and how to become or how to build income streams that don't rely entirely on one platform or format, so what do we think?

29:52 Do we agree that video podcasting may be headed for a correction, or do we think that video podcasting. Is still just getting started. I want to see now. Look, I'm using Club Deck are flashing their emojis, I I Ralph Estep Jr.: jump in there And then I got in all kinds of hot water on Saturday on Ask the Podcast Coach. Actually, lost a friend because of some of the things I said, yikes, in the chat, believe it or not, yeah, he was, he was just taken back by my position, and I've actually wrote a blog post about this and posted it alongside of Elsie's article, because I don't everyone needs to be a media company thing, I just think that the mistake is confusing video as a tool with video as a business model, because I think video can be incredibly powerful for discoverability, and that's the part I think we're missing. And the takeaway I had from this article is Elsie is in my - this is Ralph's opinion - that she was basically saying just go and I got to be honest with you, I don't think if I'm, if I'm a new person coming into the content area, that that's wise advice, and the reason I say I'm not saying you have to do full on video shows, but the truth of clips and all those sort of things, video is driving that, and if you want to bring I think you've got to have that idea to do video again.

31:25 That's not a popular opinion, but that's Ralph's opinion, Marc Ronick: I think. Ralph, so if you're saying that you're not suggesting that everybody's gonna eventually move to full-length episodes via video, so with that in mind, like, I can't disagree with you. I mean, I think that to be honest, it actually changes the conversation, because we're a lot of us are talking about how video - we're like in a video boom right now, but using your video in podcasting for ever, serial podcast was going on. I was part of a different podcast, not cereal, but I was a part of a different podcast that had hundreds of 1000s of listeners over the course of a year, and they were always doing video, they were streaming live video, they were using video to promote using clips and that kind of thing. Video has been around for a very long time, and we've always been using it in some way here in the podcasting world too. So, I think the part of the problem with this article is I think that we, a lot of us, just Estep Jr.: actually think that we are going to get to a point where it's going to be involved in that, so I, I will Mark, because I think that's think the consumer is going to I want to listen, do I want to

32:57 that, because it gives people a chance to see your face, read your body language and build what audio does, but again, the economics still have to work Marc Ronick: fair enough. Let's hear from some of our community around this. Dan Schultz wants to join in. Go for it, Dan. Dan: Yeah, hey everyone. Oh, I'm wearing an echo. Can you guys hear me? Marc Ronick: Yeah, we can hear And we don't hear an app. Okay, Dan: so here's the thing that everyone should remember, that even us really cool, awesome, hardworking podcasters, we're lazy people are lazy, and they're gonna have to figure out, is the juice going to be worth the squeeze? Because I think I said earlier, when I'm editing one of our podcasts, I just always edit the video along with it, but I am not under any great, you know, I don't know, dream that what I'm doing is even close to TV quality. I am doing the bare minimum when I talk, I'm on camera, when my co-host talks, she's on camera. We have a few graphics every once in a while, you know, we maybe switch up camera shots, but it's a lot of work to do that, and I think people doing video are, I mean, a lot of people get into the new thing, a you're a really good example, I think a lot of times you jump in and you're like, this is the best practices, or this is what you have to do to grow fast.

34:22 I want to be part of everything. Well, you probably maybe wouldn't do video if it kept getting harder and harder to actually stand out. Like, what if doing the bare minimum isn't enough, and you have to start, you know, spending money on workflows or equipment and all sorts of stuff. And then pretty soon you realize, and I'm not just saying us, we got into doing a podcast about us, you know, for a specific reason, maybe we had a message we wanted to share, whatever. The second the work itself turns into more like, well, wait a minute, this isn't what I want to do, I want to talk about blah blah blah blah, I don't want to get. It into being a full-fledged TV producer. I don't really care all that much about video. I care more about serving my audience the message that I beginning. So, is video video always be around because there's going to be people who like video, and YouTube is, you know, a great discoverable discoverability platform, but it's not going anywhere, but it's not probably going to be as big as everyone thinks.

35:25 It'll always be a part of something. Marc Ronick: Yeah. Thank you, Dan. And I saw that John was agreeing with some of what you were saying, in the sense of, yeah, there's an additional cost here. And does video bring any additional benefit to the pumpkin head doesn't add to my needs to see that, Ralph Estep Jr.: but let me, let me jump in there, because I think it actually does, and I think there is a part that we're overlooking here, and that is being able to see somebody helps build that trust faster, Marc Ronick: that's fair, and I Ralph Estep Jr.: just think that we can't overlook that, and that's all I'm saying, is I just think that we need to accept that life has changed, and I truly believe we are in an age where people are expecting to see things, look at TikTok, look at reels, they are seeing things, they're not just hearing a voice, again, I could be the lone guy out in the prairie thinking this, but and I also don't think you have to over complicate it.

36:24 I think the simple what I've seen in my own life is the videos that I shoot out walking around the farm actually get more views than the views I get in my studio that I spent 1000s of dollars to create. So I think we can overthink this too. Marc Ronick: Yeah, fair. Let me keep things going, and check in with BC Babbles, who I need, who I owe an apology to, because he's been.. he was waiting to join us for about 10 minutes into the show before I realized he was trying to get onto the Riverside platform with us. So, please forgive me, BC, what do you want to add to all this to all this? BC Babbles: 14, but it's okay. quick. Oh, one sec. Sorry, Marc Ronick: major echoing going on.

37:08 BC Babbles: I'll do the deck version then. So, what I'm still kind of stuck on, if I heard it correctly, the previous article talked about, and to Ralph's point about discoverability, if we're supposed to rework how we're naming and describing each bit of content. What's the new technique going to be that we previously discussed on the show? How we have to make sure that titles, subtitles are some then descriptions have to make question or provide some kind of new approachable tactic be if we're supposed to stop doing that? Marc Ronick: Well, did I BC Babbles: hear that correctly Marc Ronick: Yeah, well, I guess Like, what were the.. can you give me examples of what was being done that we're getting rid of, like, I'm just..

38:02 I'm a little confused by your question. BC Babbles: Yeah, so I think one last article was about stop content to be this super we discussed how title subtitles searchable query, the providing a solution or answer a is saying that we have to stop pivot approach? How do we then compensate for this new era of what is discoverable? Marc Ronick: Interesting. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to stand firm that I actually don't think changing, yeah, that I do think titles and descriptions are important for searchability, discoverability, etc.

38:46 So I personally have no intention of changing that strategy, regardless of what we're being told. Yeah, at least for now. I mean, that could change over time for sure. Janae, I think you wanted to chime in. Go for it. Junaid: I always want to look at What's the game plan behind it? Right, do they have a chicken in the fight? Marc Ronick: So, yeah, I mean, how did you put it.. has a I think she certainly does. I mean, like I said, she's been in this game for so many years, and she is, she's one of those people that really I see as one that really cares about the community in the podcasting space and really nurtures the community, so yeah, I think the intentions are good as far as who it's coming from, for sure.

39:42 Anyone else want to chime in? Yeah, Mark, John: for just a second. Marc Ronick: Okay, go ahead, John. John: So, knowing Elsie and Rob, until. So she started doing video, and now she likes doing video. Here's my thing: everybody should just do what they want. Let's just.. Ralph wants to do video. I think it's fantastic. I live stream twice a week, but I live stream the recording of my audio podcast. I believe my podcast is an audio-first podcast. So, I just think we should.. I don't know why. I don't know why we're fighting. I don't know why we're out there. Everybody should just do their own thing.

40:23 Marc Ronick: I agree. I guess the, the argument is because if we're trying to maximize our reach, maximize our growth, you know that that's why these conversations are happening. And to be fair, I kind of, John, I kind of feel like, and the next story I probably feel the same way. Does this even apply to this section of the world of In other words, the indie DIY podcasters, does this stuff even really apply? Because a lot of the information, generally now, not maybe LC, but generally speaking, it comes from the big companies, the corporate out there, right, that are shoving the idea of video down our throats, but maybe they're actually, we think they're shoving it down our throats, but maybe it's not even really geared toward us. Maybe the indie DIY space has different rules to apply. John: I think people wanted it.

41:23 with YouTube and Spotify with we'll use HLS, and we'll do It's a cost to, you know, all the hosting providers, so they have to pass the cost on to us, and then they also have to do a lot of work in the back end to make it under their developers have to do a lot of work, so it's a cost to them too. Again, I just don't think I think the problem we have is people are trying to take away our term podcasting, they want to change it to content creator or something like that, and we were holding on to podcasting, even though it's a stupid word. problem is everybody's like, podcasting term to content you're not going to do that.

42:12 people as far as big companies 2012 and I said back then, if sandbox. You guys laughed at us when we started this, and now here you are. So, I'm a little protective. Marc Ronick: I hear you, John. Thank you. Appreciate that, Rez. I'll come to you in just a There was some tide I saw wanted to chime in. Tide, go for it. Good morning. Tide: Good morning. Great conversation. I was just going to say that a lot of times when we're doing work it's people think that the actions themselves are what's going to propel them to success because that's what we've been conditioned to believe act do about the attitude it's the see someone walking down the that they have a lot of swagger, relaxed, they're they have a across as very confident, and automatically make certain assumptions, typically about doing with their life, so if I do this, I do that, then you listen to it, because you know they do, they are relaxed, and not confident, is not relaxed, constantly second-guessing video, audio, video, does that

43:42 listen to somebody's podcast? So, when you have your attitude right, your mental faculties in line, and you're confident and positive with what you are doing, and you feel good, and you're happy about it, doesn't matter whether you do audio only or video only, or mix of of the two, it's about the projection that you're putting out there, and people will gravitate towards that, because you're not constantly vying for their attention, and then getting on the hamster wheel, and trying to compete for you're not doing any of that, because you're in your own space, you know that you're you're creating what you want, and when you're doing that from the right emotional and mental lens, then everything is going to start to come together.

44:29 But we live in such a frenetic, fragmented world where people are trying to chase the carrot on the stick, so to speak, and they never really find out what works for them, because they don't, they don't understand that it's your attitude that builds the success of your podcast, not the specific actions themselves. Do you need some actions? Yes, obviously, because you're not going to go anywhere if you like, if you just sit in a car and you say, okay, I'm going to be confident that this car is going to move to the grocery store. No, you obviously have to put. Your, you know, your turn or key, you know, turn your key, turn the engine on, put the foot on the on the pedal, and go. You have to do some actions, of course, but if you're confident in what you're doing, then your podcast is going to come across that way. It's going to resonate with people, and that's the main thing that I think people just don't get talked about enough. Everybody is just pushed into these certain actions, and it's, it's really the thoughts that are the fuel that make the engine go.

45:26 Marc Ronick: I'm with you there, I think I think that that's something that audiences can pick up on consciously and subconsciously. I think when you have a confident podcaster, there's something attractive about that, and I mean, or look at it at the other side from the If you've got this podcaster who they are kind of wishy-washy confidence just doesn't come I mean, I don't know about you, but I'm more likely to go press play on the podcast from the confident one than the one who's very unsure of themselves on on the mic, so yeah, I'm with you there, Rez. I'm going to come to you, and then I'm just going to let everyone know we got to move on to the next story here in a second before I come to you, Rez. Just want to give Ralph a moment to share about tomorrow's guest joining Ralph Estep Jr.: us.

46:19 Yes, thank you, Mark. Tomorrow we are going to have Jeff C here. Jeff's going to talk about AI and animation, and ways to use that for your content to really kick it up a notch. He does some really cool stuff with songs and AI animation. So, make sure you join us tomorrow for Jeff C. Marc Ronick: Awesome, and that's Marc Ronick: Yes, there you go. Thank you, Ralph Rez. What did you want to add to this Rez: Yeah, hey Mark. Hey everybody, I forgot what the gesture was, for kind of.. Marc Ronick: that's okay. Rez: Yeah, anyways, I'm shocked by, by, by the viewpoint that, like, you should do audio only my opinion, is obviously video distribution strategy, so I video versus audio. I think it, you know, record the video, publish the full audio, and definitely cut the best moments into clips, because those clips, believe it or not, like personally, I don't have the attention span to listen to the whole thing, so I, those clips are everything, in my, in my opinion, and it's through video that we can distribute those clips, but that's my opinion.

47:29 Marc Ronick: Yeah, and I think well. I think Ralph is not suggesting we should all move to video for 100% but we should be using it as part of our strategy. So, yeah, I think he's with you there, and so am I, for that matter. Rez, thank you. Appreciate that. Ralph Estep Jr.: Absolutely, that is definitely my position. We got to let Dr. say something, you. She's go ahead, Dr. DR: Okay, so whenever we get in these deep conversations that go on for a little bit, all about video in my head I am seeing our listeners who are brand spanking haven't even pushed record yet, and are listening to us to get up enough nerve to do it, and I want to remind you that you know I have two mentors that are audio only, and they both have reached six figures, so it can be done.

48:26 It can be done, and I'm just worried about those new podcasters that are looking in their wallet, going, 'Oh my god, So it's, yeah, audio is is viable, I mean, Marc Ronick: yeah, and I think you're, you're right, and you know, I think a lot of us just assume that, okay, well, we have to have video content on our to the show, and some people don't, but my point is, Why do like we've seen people on social very little to no video, right?

49:09 Whether it's with carousel posts, static images, using their stories on Instagram and TikTok, using all the different elements, but not necessarily using video of their podcast to build their authority, build their presence, to get people to are other ways we can use it. We don't have to just do my DR: client, and I were starting to experiment with just a talking head, so if she does a show about, you know, business coaching show. She just looks into the camera and says, Listen, I want people to take a listen to this episode. This week we talked to so and so all about so and so, and she surprised me with some of her answers, you know, just it's just a talking head in, just into the camera doesn't necessarily even have to be.

50:00 A clip from the show itself, just my client talking into the lens, and distribute that as a promo. Marc Ronick: Yes, but Dr. you because that's a video, DR: it's a video, but it's not, it doesn't, it just all requires just a phone, but that's what I was saying, Dr. Ralph Estep Jr.: is, I think that's the part that people are missing. It doesn't have to be this slicked out commercial grade TV premise thing, it can be something as simple as that. But I think we've got to acknowledge that that is more discoverable than just some audio file. Marc Ronick: Yes, I would agree with that. I mean, I've been, for the past several years, I've been saying, if anybody's still doing audio grams, I think they approach, because I just don't on social media, I just don't new podcasters or growing to find their community, build Okay, let's move on to the next story.

51:04 Thank you, Ralph. Appreciate that. Dr. I think this one is yours. Story number six. DR: Okay, so podcasting forms a committee to define itself. This is something that Dave Jackson and Mark discussed this past Saturday on Dave's show. There's a new industry task force trying to clean up podcast measurement, define what counts as a podcast, and figure out how audio, video, YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and ad data should all be compared. Okay, but for indie and DIY podcasters, the real question is whether this helps creators or mostly helps advertisers and major platforms. Now, here are some of the key points. The group is called AMP, AMP, and it stands for Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting.

51:56 Let me cut you off real Marc Ronick: quick. Hold your space. Somebody's, somebody's unmuted. Sid Meadows: Oh, crap, it is Marc Ronick: me. No problem. And I have to apologize to Sid, because I knew he wanted to based on me sharing it with everyone yesterday. And then I reached out to him this morning in a private chat and said, do you want to comment? He did say yes, but I missed it, so please forgive me, Sid. All Sid Meadows: good, buddy. All good, buddy. Marc Ronick: Dr, please DR: Okay, so again, it's called AMP, AMP, and it stands for the Alliance for Measurement in creating clearer standards for advertising. Some of the companies involved include Spotify, Sirius XM, Lipson, Better Help, DraftKings, UTA, Flight Story, Podscribe, and Oxford Road.

52:52 The group says inconsistent measurement may be keeping major ad dollars out of podcasting, possibly as much as $1 billion I said, billion. Is everyone thinking Marc Ronick: of Dr. Evil right now? Okay, go ahead. DR: Dave Jackson's concern, talked about this on Saturday, advertisers trying to reshape want, and Marc Ronick: my concern, you want me to share. My concern is that the standards built for huge shows, platforms, and ad buyers may not actually serve indie and DIY podcasters. That was a little bit of what I was alluding to earlier. DR: Yeah, YouTube views, podcast listenings listening don't all measure the same thing, so trying to treat them all the same could get messy, and could get messy fast. The big thing to watch is whether open podcasting, especially RSS, stays protected as platforms push for better tracking, cleaner attribution, and more control. Now, Mark, what is your takeaway on this? Marc Ronick: I mean, just that indie podcasters, DIY podcasters, should be paying attention to all this, but maybe don't feel like you have to panic, the it probably affects the ad side of podcasting first.

54:28 and consistency, community, it industry measurement data, at I believe that. So, my question is, and maybe Sid, you'll have some comments, so that we can hear from you today. Is do you trust major platforms and advertisers, like I said, like some of the, well, like you said, some of these these companies that have gotten together here, like Better Help and Draft Kings, like are these the right people to get together to help? Define the industry right, like, how do we feel about about that in general? Anyone have any thoughts? Ralph, I feel like you have. I can jump in.

55:10 Okay, when Ralph Estep Jr.: you're done, Sid Meadows: so I listened to this article because they had a little link where you could play it, right? Yeah, and my first thought was this is the money grab for big shows, because this is all about CPM rates, and CPM rates don't work for small independent podcasts. They just don't, Marc Ronick: right? Sid Meadows: And when you look, DraftKings is the number one ad buyer, according to that So that's kind of strange that they're part of this, I, however, I do agree that there should be some standardization of measurement of podcasts, not just ad measurement. This was focused on ad measurement and analytics, and podcasting really need improvement and standardization across multiple platforms, so that we can have a better understanding of the reach and impact of our show, that's definitely something that's needed, but we're not included in this, and when you look at the industry, we outweigh them in the number of shows, and likely our audiences outweigh their single audience, right, and so to not include an important component like independent podcasters who don't right path to take, because then you're not hearing from the entire audience, you're not hearing from the entire group of So, I think it's going to be interesting to follow this, but again, and I'll say this till the day I die, CPM rates do not

56:41 work for us, and if you're trying to go after advertising dollars, this battle, because you're never going to make any real money with your podcast. Marc Ronick: So, Sid, thank you for that. Do you, who do you think should be a part of that committee, you know, to speak to the independent podcasters? or people in mind? Sid Meadows: I mean, that's a great question. I hadn't really thought about that. The first one that comes to my mind are the, you know, the people that run, you know, organizations like yours, you know, Empower Podcasting Conferences, people that honestly serve the independent podcaster should have a voice in this, and there are a lot of groups that serve us as a group, as a community, right.

57:24 And, but there's none of them that are involved in this. This is all big corporate stuff, and I mean, yeah, it's great they're talking to each other, but when we're not represented, it creates a problem. So, the organ is anybody that represents the organization, organization, or represents a organization that serves independent podcasters should some of them should have a seat at the table, for sure. Marc Ronick: Yeah, I agree with you, and I think it might have been Dave Jackson that had said on Saturday, like one of the companies that he feels should company like Buzzsprout. I mean, they are the largest independent podcasting platform out there, they have the most independent podcasters on that platform hosting their podcast, so yeah, we, I think having a company like them would, would do a lot, and it's, and it's also, I just, I find it odd, like, who first of all, why did they, these people or companies meet in secret? What's the point of that, and who picked them, right? Like, just what made them the ones to be the team? I find it curious.

58:24 Can Ralph Estep Jr.: I comment on this real quick? Yeah, and, bc, let me just comment on this. Marc Ronick: Yes, I'll let over time, so hold off. BC, did you have something, or is that a legacy hand up? I just wanted to make sure, because I saw it up there for a minute. BC Babbles: Legacy. Sorry, Marc Ronick: no problem. Go ahead, Ralph. Yeah, I want to comment on this, because Adam Curry actually has the resolution to Dan: this on podcasting 2.0 Last Friday, he made Ralph Estep Jr.: it, and it's clearly you can do all you've got to do is let the hosting companies make some money based on this, and they will share Dan: their first Ralph Estep Jr.: party data, and That really is the answer to the question, because once the first party, the hosting companies, the people who like, like Sam Seth, is an example, all the people who have hosting companies have all this information, but they don't want to share it, because they don't make any money from it.

59:15 If the advertisers really want this information, and this is all about money, this is what At the end of the day. This is all about trying to measure, so they can decide where the ad dollars go. I think Adam Curry is right on. Give them a fractional piece of that, and you will have more data than you can ever handle, and that will resolve the issue. Marc Ronick: Thank you, Ralph and Junaid. You wanted to add something. Junaid: Yeah, what I wanted to and the other big companies are in there is because they're one of the largest spenders of ad DraftKings everywhere advertise. Marc Ronick: Oh yeah, Junaid: and so they're like, hey, how can we get more data back? So that's one of the reasons. The other thing I wanted to introduce was what's stopping us.

59:59 As indie podcasters to build a body of governance of what we like to track, like what's stopping us, so that's another thing that we can also think about. But this had been an awesome conversation. Thank you so much. Marc Ronick: Yeah, Janae, that reminds me, I remember you were part of that conversation on Dave Jackson's Saturday show, and I remember seeing you right in the chat, Mark, we should start something like this. Yeah, I mean, maybe I would love to, and I don't want to drive myself completely bonkers at the same time taking on way too many things, so I have to think about how that would work out. But yeah, great points, Junaid, great points, Ralph, and Sid, thank you all for sharing your two cents.

1:00:40 Yeah, I think that we're mainly all on the same page here. I don't think that this particular committee is the one that's going to solve this whole problem of defining podcasting and the money side of it, etc. I think that it's going to take more than just that small group to define it and to really flesh So, with that, remember we are back tomorrow. We've got our interview tomorrow, and I feel awful, Ralph. I totally just, his name escaped me, Ralph Estep Jr.: Jeff C, Jeff, and I put something in out on all the socials with his information. Marc Ronick: Yep, so come join Let's have an AI discussion, another hot topic around the world of podcasting and around the world in general, so let's talk about it tomorrow, am Eastern time.

1:01:25 And you can find us at Podcasting Morning show.com/join us if you want to catch the video, if you want to catch us on Clubhouse, wherever you want to catch us, that's the link to find us. So, until tomorrow, make it a great day, everybody. Take care.