What SmartLess Can Teach You About Building a Podcast People Love

0:04 Good morning podcasting Morning chat. Today is Monday, November 3rd, and today we're looking at the podcast Smart list and what we can learn from their format. Help our podcast get heard by more people. If you are listening here on Clubhouse, please share the room however you can share it. And if you are listening via podcast, please let another pod, yes or no, wait 30 seconds while we get things set up and then we will jump into the stroll.

1:20 Good morning, podcasting, morning chat. Welcome to today's show. Like I said, we were talking about the podcast Smartlist today, and we're going to learn what we can take from Smartlist and use in our own show. Today Here on the stage with me, I've got Ashley Feller, Dr. Fay, Nick Naalbek, Sid Meadows, and I'm totally blanking on the podcast mogul's actual name. Feel better? Thank you, Phil. I it would come to me at some point. And then over here on chatter, I do have Amanda Yoa with me. So we're going to talk about Smartless, which is a show hosted by Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes and Will Arnett. And we have some clips that we're going to go through and, and pick parts of it from the podcast that we can talk about different aspects of it.

2:08 Like I said, I am over on clubhouse. I do have slides for you guys, but that if you can't, you're not going to be able to see them over on on Clubhouse. You can come over to chatter and see them if you would like. Good. We are going to jump in and then I will we'll play the first clip. But first I want to just talk a little bit about what Smartlist is. One of the things that that's really unique about Smartlist is the setup of it. It is repost. They actually have a surprise guest that comes on each week once they're invited by one of the hosts. So it's an interesting format that we're going to talk a little bit about in this first clip. My guest today had quite the historic beginning. I just wrote this last night.

2:49 When she was born, Martin Luther King Junior and his wife Coretta paid the hospital bill. I didn't know this until I looked it up. She grew up in Georgia playing the clarinet in the school band, which I loved learning about. After graduation, she moved to New York, sold running shoes. Guess what chased an acting dream on a film set 30 years ago? She picked up knitting. Hasn't put the needles down since her kids once after. If she was more famous than Taylor Swift these days, she's happiest at her ranch in New Mexico. You could call her an Oscar winner. You call her America sweetheart. You call her my sweetheart. But today I'll just call her the brilliant. And always Julia Robert. Julia Robert. Yeah, I got. It Oh my God. Julia. Hello, Julia.

3:30 That's so cute. She's wearing a firefighter uniform, folks. It's Boy Scouts. Oh, Boy Scouts, It's Boy Scouts. Oh, it isn't Boy Scouts. I did a little lead scouts. Hi, how? Cool that you're doing. This she's. Gone for that. For that. All my all my research. Sort of like a haiku. About one's grandmother. So that is a clip from the Julia Roberts episode that aired a few weeks ago. And the reason I actually use that clip is I wanted to talk a little bit about the mystery guest format because I think that's one of the keys for that success. The success of that show is there's a mystery guest and each week we don't know who the guest is, but they're invited by one of the hosts and then the people on don't know even who is going to be the guest. And and that is to me, one of the stand out strategies that works for smart list.

4:26 But I would love to know, you know, why you guys think it works if the mystery guest format is something you're you like and hopefully we're going to get this running smoothly after this now that we can hear clips. So I'm going to open it up. Does anybody want to talk about the mystery guest format and why it works? I'll. Jump in real quick. Sure. I'd never listened to Sparkless until you guys said this was going to be the topic today. So I listened to this episode on Saturday mornings and honestly, I didn't realize that it was really a mystery guest. I just thought that they were kind of they're actors, right? So I thought they were kind of acting it. I didn't realize that it was really a mystery guest. So it's very interesting that nobody knows except the one person that picked them. So I like it.

5:09 I like, hey, this is somebody we're going to talk to you if you're the coast that doesn't know, that puts you in the position to really be a point with, you know what you're asking, thinking on your feet. So I think I really liked it. Yeah, I agree. I think that having a mystery guest keep makes all the other hosts have to think on their feet and see what's going to happen with the show. I personally, I enjoyed the banter between the hosts, the banter between Julia Roberts. It all felt very comfortable and organic as it felt. Does anybody else have anything they want to share about the mystery guest format? I will share. I love it. I think it's a great idea. Talk about, you know, the teas of all teas, especially from a, you know, a listener perspective, not really knowing who the guest is going to be.

5:57 Sometimes when you see a certain guest on, you may not want to, they might not be your cup of tea, so you may not even want to TuneIn. So this kind of gives the listener the incentive of, you know, tuning in every single week or however often they do their episodes because you don't know who's going to be on. And then maybe come to find out you hear something that you appreciate about that person that you normally wouldn't have tuned in to even listen to the episode. So I think it's awesome. Yeah, absolutely, Amanda. And I think what's really cool is the show itself isn't really based on, it's based on the concept, not necessarily the guest. So it that makes a huge difference when you're listening as well. Go ahead, Nick. Hey, good morning. I think it definitely plays better that and I think the support for independent podcasters as well. It plays well that the listeners love the hosts. Like they tuned in for the host.

6:51 Doesn't matter who the guest is going to be like it's a fun surprise on top of the fact that they're listening to this person. But I was just thinking like, if I were to try to do that and I wouldn't give you any information about the guest that was coming on, would probably be a little bit harder for me to get people excited about it. Now them think about it, probably come up with some creative ways of spilling what the topic is going to be about and what they're going to get into in the episode without actually revealing who the guest is. But I think it definitely plays in their favor that people are big fans of the hosts. And I I do think it's important that we keep that in mind. I know we've had discussions on that here it on this show talking about how the listeners are tuning in for the host. They're coming back time and time again for the host, not the guest.

7:39 I think playing with those two hand in hand. I was just saying I disagree. I disagree only because I've been from a consumer perspective. I've dodged certain podcasts where certain guests were on that, you know, their style of comedy just wasn't my cup of tea. Although it was a show that I listened to on the regular. I said, you know what, we'll just catch up. Not my cup of tea. Probably not going to be my conversation. So I don't think it's always having to do with the host, especially if the focus is on the guest. I think, you know, the person might appreciate the guest that's on or may not appreciate the guest that's on and choose to just sit that one out. I agree.

8:20 With you 100%, Amanda, I think playing the mystery guest part of it worked because the the listeners going to tune in for the host and then once they get into the episode, find out, OK, this is the guest. So it kind of eliminates that. Oh, I don't care for this person, so I'm going to not listen. But having the audience's ear is by far to be the most important piece of that to make it work. Does that make sense? So I think it's great when they do it because they are three huge names in the industry and between the three of them, they work with just about every single person in the industry. So you know that that mystery guest is going to be a big name. It's still a mystery, but it's going to be a big name. And so it works for them.

9:07 But would it work for me? No. So yeah, it works for them, that's for sure. The way he introduced Julia. I listened to other interviews as well as well after listening this one. The way he introduced it was like he was introducing your best friend. Like as hosts of interview podcast, we have to understand that we have to pump up the guest as much as intro when we're introducing the guest to the audience. Like he pumped it up. He made her sound like way like way back better and put in some little things about her that we may not know as an audience.

9:47 So that and she may have forgotten to share as well. And you saw that kind of like surprise and when she arrived. And we just need to remember that as host, we have to bring that value to our guests, like really make them feel like a superstar. Absolutely. Now I know, Dr. said. You know, there are three huge hosts, what we take from it, and I think there's ways that we can add a surprise element to our structure without necessarily having it be a rotating mystery guest or something. But we can add some surprise to our structure that will help us really keep people engaged. And it'll add a little bit of consistency, but fun as well because the surprise aspect of it can be fun. But I wonder if anybody else I know Dr. thinks it would be hard to do the surprise guest.

10:35 I get it, but does anybody else have any way that we could use something like this in our own podcasts? So on my show, once I got, I don't know, probably like 20-30 episodes into the 95 podcast, I had started talking with Travis Brown, who was the creator of Pod Deck, which our little interview question cards come in like a deck of cards and they got all kinds of questions on it. Then that was a little fun icebreaker type of thing that I ended up doing with all of my guests where we pick some random questions out of the deck and the guests would answer kind of like rapid fire style to kind of take the edge off a little bit.

11:18 Because a lot of the questions they, they weren't really necessarily like business pointed like my podcast was, but they were kind of just fun questions to get to know the guests before we actually got into the content itself. And that was something that I started doing every episode and actually had feedback from listeners saying I think 1 episode I forgot to do it or didn't have the cards with me or whatever. And they're like, oh, are you done doing that? Like I really enjoyed that part of it because the question sometimes we're so off the wall. I don't know, it's just kind of a fun way to bring that element to surprise. Like what is the question going to be? Right. So for Nick, he had a specific thing that he did. So the format stayed the same, but the question obviously changed because he was pulling it from the deck. So that is a surprise element that he added into his podcast.

12:01 Anybody else? And it can be a mystery guest. It can be a surprise topic. It could be even letting the audience to make questions. Any any other ideas on ways that we can make this work for our podcast? Go ahead, Sid. Friend to host a podcast and he does something that's really unique and it's kind of fun. He does a warm up question and it's being recorded and he does a warm up question just to get the guest to relax. And they range from, you know, how are your kids to I don't know if something else right? And but he actually starts his show with the warm up question and it's just really delightful. We think about surprising and delighting.

12:41 It's really delightful because it's getting the guests to relax. It's a very, it's a very fun little banter back and forth. So I like this idea and I told him when I saw him last week, I really like the warm up question. I just think it it's like giving me an inside look at what's happening at the show without actually being there for the recording. I like that and that is another way to just kind of add some surprise elements into your podcast. Great example, Sid, anybody else have anything? If not, we'll go on to the next clip. Oh, Willie, where are you? New York City. It's my new place in New York. Yeah. Do you love it? What do you mean you got you got a place? Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. Where are you? Are you doing press Willie for your movie? No, no, I'm just.

13:24 Not yet, I'm about to but I'm just getting sort of sorted. Here in my place. You might be seeing a friend. Oh, he's got dollar bill though he's got a gambling issue. He likes to be as close. To Atlantic City as possible. Without going wait, how are you? How is everybody doing? We haven't seen each other in Seoul in like 2. Weeks. I know I don't like it. I saw JB. Last week a couple times we played. Golf. And then we went. That's nice. We did a little charity work. Oh yeah, Will did. Some some some MC ING of a a a very special charity event. The Yes charity Yes. What is that about? Sir Friend Eric Eisner's. Charity the Young Eisner.

14:05 Scholars, it's a. Really great actually, look it up. It's a very. Worthy. Cause and he they identify. You know, kids from underserved communities. Who? Who are really? Smart and helps. Might not otherwise have access to funds for higher education. And that for. Secondary education or. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty cool. I chose this inch this beginning of the episode because I felt that it showed like the chemistry that the host all have. They are totally their friends, real friends, and the conversation was all comfortable and casual, which I think adds to the overall feeling of, you know, just a comfortable show that you're they're having coffee with these guys.

14:47 It almost feels like because they're they're they're they're just chatting and you're just listening in having coffee with them. To a certain extent for me, the connection that happens between them and the guests is always real and that kind of it helps the whole episode flow. But does anybody else have anything to say when it comes to like, I thought it was the chemistry was key for the show, but anybody else have anything they want to add on that particular? I personally I do like the the chemistry aspect where it doesn't necessarily feel like they're recording a podcast episode. Like you said, it's like a group of friends just chatting. I also see that it could also be a little bit chaotic as well.

15:29 And maybe it's different watching the video format because I've never actually listened to Smart List, but I feel like you can be a little overwhelming. Like at one point, Next up, everyone's kind of like talking over each other and like I don't even know if he's talking right now. I can't fully understand. At the same time it they do a good job of raining it back in and everyone kind of settling down for a minute. I've always gravitated towards that fun banter and you're just kind of there listening alongside them kind of thing. I'm going to talk about the chaos in a little bit because I think that's important. What you said is like it feels almost a little bit chaotic, but then they bring it back in and it feels like, you know, honestly, it's a real conversation happening. I think, Phil, you were going to. Yeah, I just wanted to put something out there for how to how we as independent podcasters can take something away from the Smartlist podcast and their banter. It's almost as if they've timed it. They know that they have like 5 minutes of banter that they can go with because they know their audience wants to hear the interview.

16:32 And I think some independent podcasters when they have a panel ask type show so they have more than one Co host when they're interviewing or if they're just doing a regular podcast, their banter goes for longer than it's necessary which can turn people off. I like even though these people are paid comedians pretty much, they understand that their banter isn't what is important, it's with a guess so they can try and keep the banter as low as possible even if it's chaotic in the most part. I agree, Phil, and I think that's important for everybody. I think the connection that we feel because of the banter helps us warm up to everything that's happening. You know, with them on the episode, whoever their guest is, it's just a comfortable kind of intro, but it doesn't go too long, which I know many times it can go too long and be uncomfortable for people to listen to or just people turn turn it off.

17:24 So I think that's important. And you know, the friendship and the connection and the real conversation happens between them, but it's not too long. What about how the host kind of interact with one another is for me, that was huge. That chemistry that exists between them because they are real friends, I think is important for the podcast and for us to look at if we're looking to have a similar podcast where it is a group of friends talking first. You can just tell, I didn't know that they were friends before I saw that they were doing a show together. But listening to them talk, it's like, Oh yeah, they definitely have some chemistry. Their friends beyond the show. It's not just something that they come together and they're like, OK, hey, let's just do a podcast.

18:08 Like you can actually feel that. And I think everyone listening can tell that like they are just, they work well together. Absolutely. And I think that's really the key. And one of the takeaways is that that chemistry, that chemistry is the content. Even through the interview with Julia, you feel like there's just chemistry there where it flows, it's natural. So I think that's one of the big takeaways is making sure that no matter who is, you know who you're working with, you've got the right either Co host or guest and there's some sort of chemistry that flows with your podcast. There's something that connects people to you because that's an important aspect. So how you host, if you have a good connection with your Co host, stuff like that, having that chemistry is important almost more so than the concept itself because you can have a strong concept but not have the chemistry and it might it's going to fall flat.

19:03 I was just going to say I really like what Dave said in the chat. He said I like the unscripted questions for the guest. You can't really create a list of questions in advance for an unknown mystery guest. But isn't it the way that it goes that one host knows who the guest is going to be? No one host knows who the guest is going to be. OK, but only one. The others don't. So the questions in the conversation is definitely unscripted to a certain extent. I was going to say, I appreciate that. I, I appreciate at least maybe the, the host knowing who the guest is so he can reel the conversation back in. From a listener's perspective. I like that the other host don't know and that it's unscripted because that's where they'll be able to create that connection and that synergy from the guest to the listener, you know, somebody that maybe they want to fall to tune into and on based on things that we didn't know about that specific person.

19:57 So the unscripted questions I think come in key to and creating that connection that maybe wouldn't have been there. The thing is, you can be the hangout, not the lecture. Nobody goes to Smartless. Like we didn't go to Smartless to learn more about Julia Roberts and how to become Julia Roberts. We went because we wanted to listen to the conversation and hear about what's going on. It's more informal. So be the hangout, the place that people can go and hang out with your podcast, not necessarily the place that people are going to learn because we don't go to Smart List to learn, do we? I don't, I don't think so. They come to kind of be a part of the experience and be a part of what's happening. So we go there to be a part of the community, not necessarily learn from the podcast. And that's something that we can take away and use in our own podcasts.

20:43 I was just thinking to like talking from like a host perspective, but I think as a guest perspective, it plays really well in the guests favor to be featured on a show like this. Because I have to imagine that the circles that Julia Roberts runs in aren't necessarily the same circles that Jason Bateman's running in. And I think it it's kind of cool seeing them share audiences and it can build a kind of like a trust and rapport with other people that you might not necessarily have done previously. Like, if I was just constantly following what Jason Bateman and all those guys were doing, I probably wouldn't know much about Julia Roberts and what she's doing and the fact that they're bringing her into their circle. It bodes well for Julia Roberts because that they get to share audiences in a way, thinking about that from a guest perspective, you being a guest on other shows, that could play to your advantage as well.

21:37 So obviously those 3 hosts are very comfortable with each other and it makes me wonder how do we make our guests feel comfortable? Obviously Julia was very comfortable with all of them. She knows them. So it was like, you know, four friends coming to your local coffee shop, getting together and hanging out, right? So the question becomes is how do we make our guests when, if you have an interview show, feel comfortable to relax and to be able to just have fun and enjoy the conversation. So that I work on all the time. And I can always tell I can pick up body language signals that record on Zoomed when I can see people are uncomfortable. But I think that's really the question for us is how can we make our guests feel comfortable so that we're just having like a real authentic conversation and.

22:23 I'll put that out to everybody. Ashley, Dr. Phil, go ahead. The way I do it normally is before I even hit record, I have about a 5 to 10 minute conversation just to break the eyes, get them used to speaking. Because I find with interviews, people are hesitant to talk. They're not in that groove or the, the mindset to talk when they come into the interview, even though as the host we've, we're, we're already in that we're able to kick it in. So I usually have about a, a 5 to 10 minute conversation beforehand, which gets the guest in that remote of talking, gets them relaxed because they're talking every conversation and they get to know you a bit beforehand. So you're breaking all that ice before the actual interview happens and it makes them feel a bit more relaxed. So that's what I usually do I.

23:17 Also tell my guests to thing I'm trying to get them to relax and I just I do with field. I was like, maybe not 10 minutes, but we just chat for a couple of minutes, ask them how their days go and that kind of stuff. And I just remind them I'm like, hey, if I ask you a question you don't want to answer, just say, hey, dude, I'm not answering that question. I kind of laugh and smile at it. And I said, yeah, then we can cut it out. Take a pause and we can cut that out. And then if I ask you a question that you don't like the way you answered it and you want to redo it, just say just stop and take a pause. Say, hey, I really want to redo that. Can you ask me the question again? So I'm trying to make them comfortable to realize that, hey, we're going to edit this. You don't have to be perfect. It's unscripted and there's grace here. If you don't like how you answered or if you really just don't want to answer a question that I ask you, then you know, just say, hey dude, I'm not answering that question. So try to make a little bit of light of it, but also let them know that there's post production. It's going to happen that we can make it work. There you go, Ashley, do you want to share your tip? Sure, and I know this won't work in every environment, but I interview a lot of my guests outside at music festivals, so a lot of times I'll make them a cocktail and that'll usually get them a little more comfortable and I also remind them. That it is edited.

24:26 And if they think. Of something. That maybe they didn't want to say or maybe they shared it too soon that we can take it out and that usually helps them feel more comfortable. I love that you hand him a cocktail. I think that's a great way to do it. Anybody else? Any ways to make their guests feel comfortable so they get a good interview out of them? I always record right from the get go and I continue recording after the end of the interview, which makes them for the most part, actually, once we start talking bantering, even though they're on, they're recorded. They feel they feel comfortable about it because they're already being recorded. But yeah, Jeff has come up. Jeff, did you want to contribute to this? I would love to contribute. Good morning, everybody.

25:07 I think the way to make your guests feel comfortable is all the things you said. Everyone said is great. The thing that my guests tend to say to me when we have a good conversation is that I made them feel I'm easy to talk to. Now, I don't, I know that I don't have bullet points on that, but what I think it means is that the comfort level of your guest is based on the host. I bring it down to just listening and not interrupting. Like the more they feel heard, the more they'll talk or the more questions that you ask them that challenge them that maybe they haven't asked, that will trigger different things in their brain that they haven't answered 1000 times. I think that opens them up and ultimately makes them feel more comfortable.

25:57 Absolutely. I love that. It's not a great way to do it, all right. Definitely listening to what they have to say is going to help them feel more comfortable sharing what they have to say. I think you as the host and the energy you bring to the recording is so important. So if you're having a bad morning and you're doing a morning recording, you're having a bad morning and you're a bit of a pissy mood, that's going to come through. So I think taking a moment to just reset to make sure that your energy is in the right place, you're upbeat, you're excited about the looking forward to the recording, he said. What was he saying about the energy you put into the room? Is what you get out of the room and to really think about where you are mentally and energetically as you start to hit the record button. All right, so I'll reset.

26:43 I'm ready to go. Here we go. By the way, the last clip is a little bit chaotic, but I brought it before kind of for that purpose, but it's about 45 seconds, so it shouldn't be too bad for everybody, but it is a little bit chaotic sleeping with the enemy. And then you know, you know the thing and Steel Magnolia is Scotty's diabetic. And when you had that scene, Scotty had a scene like that in real life. And I had, I'd only watched Steel Magnolia. It's like for the first time, like say that it was 8 years ago. Crazy. What? No. Thanks for the support. My God. I've seen Steven with the enemy like 17 times, but I have, I've seen it a billion times. But no, the no.

27:23 Yeah, but that scene was so real. Scotty's flatlining go ahead. That scene was so real when you had the diabetic thing and, and when he was, when we first started dating, we've been together almost 20 years. And he would be, he would do. Let's go on to the next question. Good Lord. It's a chaotic clip, but I think for me what that brought out was they kind of let the listeners kind of listen in to what's really happening and they make it very, very human in their editing and how they're presenting it. It's feels human, but there's a very delicate balance between what's too chaotic because that was in the middle of the interview. That was a chunk in the middle of the interview. They were trying to get a point across the the question really didn't land ever, But you know, that's in the chaos was a little bit fun to listen to.

28:14 But how can you include maybe a little bit of chaos or a little bit of, you know, what's happening? How how do you use that in your podcast to make it work? I mean, I think it's smart editing. Go ahead, DRI. Said it before in the last time I spoke. I think the chaos works for them because these are freaking movie stars. We love just to be that table next to all the movie stars and have that we lean back to get our ear closer to whatever they're saying. We don't care. We just want to hear what the movie stars have to say. If they're talking shop, if they're shooting the breeze.

28:55 But I'm not sure if something that chaotic would work for me or for my clients because they're not they're not famous names. A few months ago, I was editing a show and the host and the guest knew each other really well. I mean, they were like, almost best friends, and all of a sudden they started breaking into this conversation. Oh, I'm trying to get Tony for the show. Oh, I love Tony. Yeah, Tony's great. You know what? I went to temple with Tony. Oh, that's cool. No, you know what? It's a different Tony. It's not the same Tony. Oh, no, I know that Tony too, because I went to the temple with you, Tony. I mean, they were having this weird conversation that means nothing, nothing to the listener.

29:43 So. But it would mean something if they were two famous people talking, going back and forth like that. So Dr. I'm going to I'm going to openly disagree with you on this for one reason. I think something that we can take away from this listening here on to smart list is that we can have messy moments and we can have things that are happening that, you know, people may actually be interested in because they make us a real human being. And when you allow for that, like just drop the perfectionism, I think one of the biggest lessons we can learn from that particular clip is drop the perfectionism. We don't need everything to be perfect. We can have moments like that in our podcast that people might actually engage with because they make us human. And I'll let you respond if you want. I'm still not convinced, especially with the example that I gave.

30:39 You know, our big thing is give value to the to the listeners. What's valuable give value, and that whole stretch of stuff that I had to take out and edit out was not valuable at all. But was it valuable because it made them human? And that's where I'm going to, I'm going to stand on that one. It may have been valuable because it made them human and allowed people to connect with them on that level. But that's insinuating that without that chaos that they were not as human. And I'm going to disagree with that because the entire interview that showed their foibles and everything that goes with it, we agree to disagree on this. All right, fair enough.

31:25 And I see Alexandra came up on stage, so I want to give her a chance to contribute if she had something she wanted to say. I was just saying one thing that I learned from my interviews with with Conan quit before I had to put it on the shelf is doing the research and asking questions that haven't been asked before. It's something that I've noticed works no matter what the format is, whether it's a conference or it's podcast interview or whatever it is, because people are tired of being asked the same standard questions all the time. So I did put up a poll because, well, Billy told us to. So if you guys want to vote on the poll just to see if it, you know, does a little messiness work in a podcast, It's kind of how I phrased it.

32:14 You feel like it's the blooper reel to me. I mean, it could be. It could be. I think, though, in our overall, you know, do we have a way to show up differently? And that's part of it. And I see Ralph came up. Go ahead, Ralph. Yeah, I want to make a comment about the whole chaos and messiness. I think it's one thing to allow some imperfection. I think it's a whole nother to not be professional and I think if we want to be taken seriously in our podcasting we need to be professional. Always. And if it doesn't? Come across clear to the listener then. I don't think that's professional. I think we can make a distinction between perfection. I don't disagree with you. I think perfection is something that we do need to be worried about and not so stressed about, but we do need to always be professional.

33:01 I agree that we always need to be professional, but depending on each, you know, everybody's podcast, that might come up a little bit differently. Yeah, I agree. You know, what's professional for my podcast might be different than others, but we should always be professional and we should always have pride in our work. We can be as messy as works for us. I think is is my point. Each person is going to be a little bit different. Amanda, did you have something? I saw you come off my. I think a little bit of messiness works, especially for them. Speaking specifically for them, I mean they are all actors turn podcasters. So I think it also shows like, hey, podcasting may not be our wheelhouse, although we do have our own show, right? So it kind of shows that vulnerability and realness that, you know, maybe they're not the pros in the game, but it's still an entertaining and fun show.

33:51 And there are going to be times where we have, like someone mentioned a blooper here and there. Why not show it? But keeping it professional and keeping it going to whatever extent that is for your show specifically, I think also plays a role as well to kind of like, OK, let's let's get it back on on track here. And you know, their professionalism I'm sure would allow them to to do that seamlessly in and out of the blooper. So I think it makes for an entertaining show for sure. Well, we got about 7 minutes left in. In today's show. I want to see if anybody has any takeaways on how we can look at smart lists and make it and make our podcast get a little bit more reach, be a little bit more obsessive.

34:32 Worthy content is what I usually call these podcasts. How can we take some things away from that and make it work for us? If anybody has anything, go ahead Sid. Jonathan, I have a question for you. Yep. Why do you think this is an obsession worthy podcast? It's a real podcast where real people are showing up and it's relatable. And no, even though they're movie stars, it's relatable. It's not, it doesn't feel like it's a piece of content. It feels like it's a conversation that's comfortable with the with them. I think they did a great job for me overall. They kind of allowed it for a dynamic show to play out and the dynamics of the show make it really truly engaging in my opinion. They're who they are, how they interact with their guests, the comfortableness that they have, the little bit of messiness. It's not too polished.

35:24 It's really just hey, hang out with friends and listening to what they have to say, even though they are movie stars. So to me that was the big thing with Smartless is is it just feels comfortable to listen to. So I would agree with you on that. It does to a degree, feel comfortable to listen to. Personally, I'm not somebody who goes crazy over famous people. I would have never listened to this show. And at 15 minutes in, I stopped and I thought, what is this? Like I almost texted you going, why are we? Why are we doing this one like I was? And then I made myself hit the play button again to finish listening to it because I wanted to hear the whole thing. I enjoyed it.

36:05 I do like Julia Roberts, I've probably seen almost all of her movies right? But I wouldn't go back and follow this show. I would not go back and listen to another episode of this show cause again I don't go googly eyed over famous people. So I thought it was a nice conversation. I did enjoy hearing a few tidbits about Julia Roberts I didn't know about. But I would not go back and listen to this show again. There's actually a lot of the podcasts that I listen to for this group of things that I do over on the other on the other app. And I wouldn't necessarily listen to them, but there are things that I can take away from them that make them, you know, that obsession worthy type of content. And for me, what worked for this one was how comfortable the conversation seemed, how comfortable the hosts were with each other, the overall chemistry. And it was more the feel of the podcast that would get people coming back, not just the viral moment of the podcast or who's the guest.

37:02 It's just that whole feel of the podcast in my opinion. I understand, Sid. They're definitely some of the some of these that I wouldn't necessarily go back to, but there's a lesson to take from them. As far as you know, a take away for myself and my show, my show is mainly a solo. I'm the only host on the show. So if I were to have a surprise guest, I thought to myself, you know, how would I orchestrate this to where I could implement the scripted and the unscripted element. And I think for me, an idea for this, which I, I really love him and my implement is having a surprise guest where I know who they are, pitching that to my audience, letting them know there's going to be a guest and maybe offering that episode as a Patreon episode or something where they can live stream and be a part. And that way the in the chat, they can ask those unscripted questions based on the conversation that we're having. So for me and being a solo host, I think that would be an excellent idea of how to implement this type of show into my show.

38:03 And I love that Amanda, I think that's a great, great take away on it. And it's definitely something you could do. It would be interesting to see and your your audience would be able to, you know, be the people that don't know who the guest is. And that's really kind of cool. Let me see, I saw something older listeners may not love messy younger will. All right, I want to thank you all for being here. And we will be back tomorrow. But so until then, hey, we'll make it a great day. Have a good one guys, Take care.